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GE's smart light bulb reset process is a masterpiece of modern techno-insanity

• lightedman 7y ago
  I'd want to like GE products but the false advertising on their blacklight LED bulb and their subsequent reaction to my notifying them of such pretty much turns me off of their products entirely. Long story short, 7W UV LED advertised blacklight bulb. Only one LED is UV and the other four are white LEDs, behind a fake woods glass filter. Yanked out the UV LED, dropped it into my Fermata light (pad/form factor compatible) and turned it into the mineral specimen lamp I was hoping to get from the original bulb.
• Phillipharryt 7y ago
  I remember this being brought up on reddit. Yes it's ridiculously lengthy, but having a procedure instead of a reset button is actually a smart idea. So they've taken a kernel of a good idea and went overboard on trying to protect users from accidentally resetting. Having a procedure allows you to reset bulbs in hard-to-reach places or a whole set of lights in one room can be reset using the one lightswitch.
  • worldsayshi 7y ago
    > having a procedure instead of a reset button is actually a smart idea I can't think of any user friendliness benefit for this. Are you thinking about component cost?
    • Hinrik 7y ago
      > allows you to reset bulbs in hard-to-reach places
      • m-ee 7y ago
        They didn't have to remove the switch to do that
        • Phillipharryt 7y ago
          This way the bulb only has one form of input, current. It is far more basic and probably cheaper that way.
    • deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    • inamberclad 7y ago
      Reset all the bulbs in a room at once.
      • SiempreViernes 7y ago
        So one should expect many bulbs to need resetting at once? I would hope the need for resets would be very sporadic.
        • Phillipharryt 7y ago
          Well I would assume if you find yourself in a situation you need to reset a lightbulb in a light fitting, it's likely you would need to reset them all seeing as they're all being used for the same purpose/connecting to the same network.
          • SiempreViernes 7y ago
            You reset them because they stopped working correctly, otherwise you would reconfigure with an app or something. If you say one needs to reset them all, you mean that they have all broken.
  • wetpaws 7y ago
    Why not have both?
  • SiempreViernes 7y ago
    Imagine if your phone needed a factory reset after getting malware and the procedure meant the all the phones in the family got a factory reset, does that seem convenient?
    • Phillipharryt 7y ago
      This is a terrible analogy and I hope you see that. They are completely different use cases. Do you have your family phones situated in your ceiling all linked together in a fitting? This procedure is inconvenient, but the idea of using a procedure is very smart.
  • rusk 7y ago
    I cant help but feel that there is a mismatch here between how electrical circuits and electronic circuits are wired. With electronics you have separate signalling and power but with electrical they are combined i.e. the “on” signal turning on the light switch is combined with power deliver of the electicity that powers the light bulb. Arguably for this to ever work properly your lights must always be “on” and their luminesnce mediated by a separate signaling channel. Then reseting is merely a matter of turning it “off” then “on”. Though perhaps a technical help desk would still be required...
  • the_mitsuhiko 7y ago
    IKEA just has a turn off and on 6 times and it works well. Takes under two seconds.
    • vinaypai 7y ago
      Yeah, for the toddler who just discovered light switches.
      • BubRoss 7y ago
        There are a lot of things you don't do it you have a toddler. Putting a smart bulb on a light switch the toddler can actually reach can be one of them.
  • post_break 7y ago
    Ever have a parent call and need help troubleshooting a wifi router over the phone? Imagine trying to walk them through this.
• Jonnax 7y ago
  Philips Hue is older I think and doesn't have this insanity. The bulbs have a serial number on them, you just input that serial into the app synced with a new bridge.
  • alexkiritz 7y ago
    Originally you couldn't use the three bulbs that came in the kit with another hub.
  • gravelc 7y ago
    Even though the Hue app isn't great, the Phillips Hue lights are something I recommend to non-tech people I know as an intro to the smart home. I have them all over my house, and they pretty much never fail to do what you expect (just like dumb appliances). Wi-fi switches are great and haven't had to replace a battery yet after maybe 4 years. I find waking up with the light slowly brightening so much better than an alarm, but just as effective.
  • deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  • james_a_craig 7y ago
    There's a proper reset procedure much like the GE bulbs too, though - On-Off at 3-to-5 second intervals 5 times.
    • tbyehl 7y ago
      With Hue bulbs there's no Off-On cycle reset. Serial Number or TouchLink.
• pvg 7y ago
  Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20314265 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20314265 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20230553 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20230553
• neilv 7y ago
  When I first saw the video, I assumed it was a viral marketing attempt.
• dangrossman 7y ago
  The process is the same for my Cree Connected bulbs and my GE Link bulbs, except a bit shorter (2 seconds on, 2 seconds off, repeat 4-5x). I was able to reset a dozen bulbs in just a few minutes, to pair them with a new hub, by just flicking the light switches (that control banks of bulbs each) without removing the bulbs. Having to remove each bulb and individually reset it with a paperclip would be less convenient.
  • Causality1 7y ago
    There is no reason you couldn't have both options.
    • dmix 7y ago
      ..or a less lengthy procedure
• davidgerard 7y ago
  30-minute remix: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mFtAUjtoF4&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mFtAUjtoF4&feature=youtu.be Tangential useful information: Which smart bulbs should you buy (from a security perspective) https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/51910.html https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/51910.html
• tossAfterUsing 7y ago
  > For some reason, GE decided not to install a physical reset button – you know, one of those tiny holes that you have to stick a pin or paperclip into. Instead, it programmed the devices to factory reset after being turning on and off in a specific pattern. Physical reset switch would be great, unless you've got 20 lights all installed in a chandelier 30 feet up.
  • knolan 7y ago
    If you’ve got such a light fixture you’re probably not changing your own light bulbs.
    • perl4ever 7y ago
      Cathedral ceilings are pretty common, surely a couple orders of magnitude more than servants.
• mytailorisrich 7y ago
  Could people remind me why they need these "smart" bulbs in the first place?
  • klez 7y ago
    I'm not sure why this is getting downvoted. It's a legitimate question. The use-case is not clear to me either. Is it to create atmosphere with the various colors? Have them turn on automatically to give the impression the home isn't empty when I'm on vacation (à-la "Home Alone")?
    • qball 7y ago
      You can use the various colors for atmosphere, but it's useful when it's late at night and you either need to focus on something (so you shift to white/blue), or you want to slow down and get ready for bed (shift to red- F.lux helps but why not the whole room?). Most wall timers can only turn lamps on and off on schedule, but they make a mess of the light's functionality if the light is not in the state you want it outside of that schedule, and they can't control ceiling fixtures. Smart lights make both tasks easy. Old apartments don't have dimmer switches, so if you want less light you're out of luck. Smart lights are dimmable on any circuit (though less effective if dimmers already exist on said circuit). They're worth less if your home already has custom lighting options installed, uses bulbs that don't have a smart option available, or are badly designed like this GE product (though others aren't that much better). Otherwise, the cost per light upgraded with a good smart light bulb beats the cost of that same light + a timer + bulbs that emit other colors and the non-financial costs of how inconvenient those things are. I'm not saying it isn't a luxury product, because it very much is, but if you have any of those goals/constraints there's nothing else on the market that can do that.
  • qball 7y ago
    Because smart bulbs are the cheapest and best option for making the following possible: * Wake timers. I can wake up with light shining in my face even with the curtains drawn, which makes it easier for my body to sense that it's time to wake up and harder for it to fall back to sleep. Bonus points if it's green or blue on a grey day, which the more expensive bulbs allow you to choose. * Security and timing. Lights can be programmed to turn on and off at semi-random times to simulate the appearance of someone being home, and normal wall timers only control lamps, not ceiling fixtures. Those timers are also a terrible programming experience compared to a good smartphone app, and they flat out disable the light when off (smart lights on a timer can be overridden by cycling the fixture's power, which cheap wall timers don't detect). * On-the-fly color shifting. Certain colors of light help me focus when I'm up late at night wrangling code; others help sleep. A dim red light at night means you can easily find your way to the bathroom around possible obstacles without fully waking yourself up. * Dimmers. In apartments and other living arrangements where you can't do electrical work, and that don't already have dimmers, this is the only way to have lights with variable brightness. The only thing that smart lights don't do is come in 100W-equivalent models- at least, not Hue bulbs, which make the colors and maximum light output dimmer than might be desired. That said, the GE thing is clearly a "feature" that some engineer was either forced to implement (or worse, thought it was a good idea) because they didn't want to shell out the 5 cents per unit for the reset button. Which is a valid point, but the fact you have to do that in the first place betrays larger and more fundamental problems with their product.
• fluxem 7y ago
  Resetting a lightbulb. What a time to be alive.
  • klez 7y ago
    Yeah, I was thinking along the same lines. I mean, I'm as geeky as it gets, but I'm still "amused" by the fact that we have lightbulbs with a firmware and a reset procedure, books that need to be charged and fridges that tweet.
    • xvector 7y ago
      My shitty smart plugs sometimes don’t turn on. Can you imagine how frustrating not have your lights respond to a flick of a switch or request to turn on!? It’s infuriating! Also this reminds me I need to put all my lights on a DMZ.
      • rusk 7y ago
        I had one of those remote control light things back in 2007 - it was great until somebody out on the street would bleep their car alarm and all my lights would turn off. It was this experience that resolved me to not waste my time with smart technologies unless they we’re at least as convenient as their dumb counterparts.
    • huseyinkeles 7y ago
      The first time I had to upgrade the firmware on my smart lightbulbs, it was so weird. But you get used to it! And I think they were one of the best purchases I did to be honest. Some features I love; # When I come to my home during the evening, lights are automatically turned on. # When I leave my place, they automatically turn off. # You can set up alarms, like 30 minutes before my alarm goes off in the morning, lights are starting turn on slowly. By the time the alarm goes off, the room is completely lit.
      • rusk 7y ago
        I know its not quite as “smart” but we have had timers for lighting circuits for at least 50 years ...
• acd 7y ago
  If you have kids they play with turning the light switch on and off. So I can see the need not to reset by accident. A simpler solution is to have ordinary plain light bulbs. Probably friendlier to the environment due to less electronics. It’s hard to hack ordinary light bulbs so they are secure. Reset button makes sense though. Reset button are costlier for bill of materials so manufacturers save on that.
  • janekm 7y ago
    Reset button is actually a safety issue, as the bulb would have to be plugged into the mains to register the reset. A metal paperclip inserted into the body of the light bulb would be very problematic from an electrical isolation point of view. The big failure arguably is not testing the firmware sufficiently (or building in recovery algorithms) to necessitate a reset procedure in the first place.
    • Retric 7y ago
      Lightbulbs don’t get handled in operation. So you can have a huge reset button and no need for a paperclip. As to firmware, cosmic rays for example randomly flip bits. Which means for any large scale deployments you want a reset option.
      • kingosticks 7y ago
        Firmware is likely to be stored in flash memory, which is far more resilient to cosmic rays than SRAM or DRAM. You might find a bitflip is so unlikely it's far below the other in-service failure rates and you'd rather just handle the returns. Of course, a reset is still useful for other reasons. All assuming you don't use the bulbs in your airplane/space shuttle! Edit: a source https://www.researchgate.net/publication/4082030_Flash_memory_under_cosmic_alpha_irradiation https://www.researchgate.net/publication/4082030_Flash_memor...
      • Taniwha 7y ago
        Let me think - the reset button can only work when the light is powered up (and maybe too hot to touch) - you can't mount it on the metal base because that's live when it's on, and so the light fitting is designed so you can't touch the base. you could mount it in the glass but it would cast a shadow ... any solution has to cost less than a penny ...
• AlexDragusin 7y ago
  Kafka is alive and well and he is making smart bulbs.
• kstenerud 7y ago
  This is mind bogglingly silly. Just do this: On-off a bunch of times puts the bulb into a receptive state for 30 seconds, where it will stop everything else (other than the light being on) and listen for admin commands from a controller, one of which is "reset". Kids messing with the lights? If no admin command gets sent, it returns to normal operation after 30 seconds. Problem solved.
  • tiborsaas 7y ago
    It's not about about technical problem that's idiotic, any HN reader could solve this way better. Imagine the bureaucracy and processes at GE that let this product to production. How many eyes looked at it and thought it's a good idea? It even went through a firmware refresh :) This will be an iconic product of the IoT era, not it a good way of course.
    • kstenerud 7y ago
      I've seen this kind of thing everywhere, from startups to bigcorp. I've seen entire teams of otherwise smart people come up with the most idiotic systems, and swear up and down that there's nothing wrong. It's not a bureaucratic problem; it's a people problem. And it's not that they're stupid... it's something else.
    • vinaypai 7y ago
      > any HN reader could solve this way better This thread is full of dumb ideas that don't hold up to two seconds of scrutiny.
  • perl4ever 7y ago
    Well, as someone else said, a reset procedure is probably for a situation where it's not processing commands from a controller for whatever reason. If it is, you still need a reset procedure for when it isn't.
• johnchristopher 7y ago
  It may have been less annoying if the sequence was decreasing the amount of focus time between switching (4 seconds then 3, etc.) with a fast blinking sequence to confirm the user is still on tracks.
• itronitron 7y ago
  ugh, why did they have to change the speed of the circle for the two second period? it would have been better to just show the two second part as 1/4th of the 8 second period.
• d--b 7y ago
  If Apple had done this light bulb you’d have to buy a $70 “resetter” device, that would do the on/off cycling for you. If Facebook had made the light bulb, you’d have to unfriend the lightbulb for it to reset. If Google had made the lightbulb, well the reset function would be discontinued. If Microsoft had made the lightbulb, you’d need to call your active directory admin to perform the reset.
  • krapp 7y ago
    >If Facebook had made the light bulb, you’d have to unfriend the lightbulb for it to reset. The funny thing is, I can see IoT enabled devices using social media accounts as an interface. You would be required to follow your appliances on Facebook or Twitter or whatever and your refrigerator would PM you when you were low on juice or something.
    • SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
      > You would be required to follow your appliances on Facebook or Twitter or whatever and your refrigerator would PM you when you were low on juice or something. I remember a time when we were promised smart fridges that would be able to give the user a live inventory and even automatically reorder food when items were running low. Instead we got "smart" light bulbs that give you an epileptic fit when they inevitably stop working and need to be factory reset. What a time to be alive!
• perfunctory 7y ago
  At the current level of economic and technological development we could all be working fifteen hours a week and still have a great life [0]. Instead we keep ourselves busy designing "smart light bulb reset process", producing instructional videos about that process, watching instructional videos, and being frustrated when it eventually doesn't work. [0] http://www.econ.yale.edu/smith/econ116a/keynes1.pdf http://www.econ.yale.edu/smith/econ116a/keynes1.pdf
  • acupofnope 7y ago
    Where do you live that your can afford a 15-hour week without worrying about rent, food,..etc?
    • soufron 7y ago
      Well, in Europe, you can.
      • hmd_imputer 7y ago
        no, you cannot. Not everyone can. At least, not in Germany. People pay 60% of their net income to rent while working 40 hours a week. How do you expect the rent to be paid with just 15 hours of work per week in Germany?
        • serpix 7y ago
          The big con is working 40 hours a week to afford to rent/own/buy a place to live so you can continue working said 40 hours a week. Cut it to 15, move to cheaper residence and cut out gadgets, buying useless shit and owning lots of things. This frees up huge chunks of time and creativity and freedom. The freedom you thought you were working towards toiling 40 hours of your life per week.
          • hmd_imputer 7y ago
            yeah, see what happens to the economy if half of the people take this way. Let me call bs on that.
• _nalply 7y ago
  Here the reset procedure for Awox color light bulbs: 1. If possible, put your bulb in white (hot or cold no matter ...). The reset procedure works better when the bulb is white rather than color. 2. In the steps below, the power is turned off. It is not ON / OFF done using the remote control or the application, but electrical ON / OFF. 3. Your light bulb is off. This is the beginning of the procedure. 4. Turn it on briefly (one second) and turn it off 5. Allow 6 seconds 6. Turn it on a second time briefly (one second) and turn off 7. Allow 6 seconds 8. Turn it on a third time briefly (one second) and turn off 9. Allow 6 seconds 10. Turn it on for a fourth time (12 seconds) and turn off 11. Allow 6 seconds 12. Turn on the fifth time (12 seconds) and turn off 13. Allow 6 seconds 14. Turn it on. The bulb will then reset and flash green. Then it will return to its initial red state. I never managed to get the bulb to flash green, however somehow I managed to reset the bulb anyway.
  • Freak_NL 7y ago
    > The reset procedure works better when the bulb is white rather than color. So it doesn't just work or not, it works better.
    • TeMPOraL 7y ago
      What. One would think that a reset procedure is binary, it either works or it doesn't...
      • SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
        Some people aren't satisfied with the bog standard factory reset. They need the better reset.
    • yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
      Maybe it works better in the sense that it is easier to see when the bulb is on or off so you can tell what you're doing?
• Nokinside 7y ago
  I had a chat with Japanese lifestyle management consultant for the rich recently. In the 90's Bill Gates had networked house and automatically adjusting lights and it was the peak of luxury. Today networking and automating the house is so affordable that it's not signalling luxury lifestyle. Apparently doing simple mundane tasks gracefully and carefully without feeling irritated is quickly becoming a way to signal to other rich people. Self regulation, education and taste has always been part of the upper class lifestyle. It's something that money can't buy. Tastefully understated lifestyle and restricting gadget usage is how the rich signal to their peers.
  • pdkl95 7y ago
    > In the 90's Bill Gates had networked house and automatically adjusting lights and it was the peak of luxury. Nonsense. X10 devices cost a bit more than regular outlets/switches/fixtures, but not much more. I know many people that added dimmers/timers/remote-control to their lights for a few hundred dollars in the late-80s/90s. Home automation has been a solved problem with cheap and easy solutions for decades.
    • Nokinside 7y ago
      It was way more than just the lights. He had originally something like 50 NT-servers managing his mansion. You could wear a pin that indicated your location. Light, sound system, climate would adjust to your preferences as you moved.
      • pdkl95 7y ago
        Some of that automation might have needed servers to control, I was referring primarily to the "automatically adjusting lights", which hasn't been a luxury feature for a long time, even in Gates' house. > 50 NT-servers That was mostly Gates "eating his own dog food"[1]. Using anything other than NT could have been bad optics. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_your_own_dog_food https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_your_own_dog_food
        • 7y ago
• blunderkid 7y ago
  If this thing is "smart", wouldn't a software reset like via a voice command be easier?
  • Freak_NL 7y ago
    A voice command probably (1) requires it to be connected to its hub, (2) which needs internet and be able to reach the voice processing servers of the vendor, (3) which needs to be still in business and running said servers. The reason for needing to reset are likely to be the first and second requirement, so that wouldn't work. The third requirement just means you need to buy a new light bulb (at least that is the way the market seems to work for this gear).
• croon 7y ago
  This is the same concept but slightly less annoying (shorter time) on IKEA Trådfri bulbs, if you want to connect them to other zigbee gateways. On/off 5 (or 6?) times: 1 second off, ½ second on, repeat.
• undecisive 7y ago
  > For some reason, GE decided not to install a physical reset button – you know, one of those tiny holes that you have to stick a pin or paperclip into. Hmmm... Nope, I can't see a problem with getting people to stick a paperclip into holes around mains electricity! Sounds perfectly safe. Seriously though, this is bonkers. Power cycling patterns are by far the best method for initiating a reset - and no, sending a reset command via apps is not feasible (what if you've lost the account password and you've accidentally paired it to your neighbours wifi?) But all bulbs have a "first-use" setup procedure. So a simple power cycling routine (e.g. on-off 5 times with no more than 5 seconds in either state) - indicate with a flashing light when it's in the first-use state. Save the previous settings so that if the kids have done it (because they like the flashing lights) a simple power cycle will restore the previous settings.
  • krapp 7y ago
    >Hmmm... Nope, I can't see a problem with getting people to stick a paperclip into holes around mains electricity! Sounds perfectly safe. Assuming you would have to unscrew the bulb to get to the reset, which seems likely, yes it would be perfectly safe.
    • undecisive 7y ago
      Ah, so you're thinking a switch that you depress, and stays depressed until you screw it back in? I guess that could work. I still don't have enough faith in humanity that someone might ignore the instructions and start poking around the electrical socket with a metal paperclip though...
      • dominicr 7y ago
        Yep, this is people we're talking about! They'd be balancing 2 chairs on each other whilst randomly stabbing a paper clip in the direction of the bulb's screw, with the power on to be sure it worked! Product designers have to design for the stupidest of us.
      • mkl 7y ago
• stestagg 7y ago
  Does this procedure produce the morse-code for "Help I'm stuck in a GE factory"?
• codegladiator 7y ago
  Why do I need to reset a light bulb ?
• dominicr 7y ago
  "For some reason, GE decided not to install a physical reset button" Well, there might be some good reasons not to have a reset button. Without knowing GE's reasons let's brainstorm: - My first thought is that many light bulbs are not easily accessible. They could be high up, or in a casing that requires a tool to open. So being able to reset them remotely is a practical benefit. - If you google "accidents whilst changing light bulb" it seems that it's not impossible to injure or even kill yourself whilst changing a light bulb. So minimising the amount of times you need to physically access a light bulb has safety benefits. - It is possible that the bulb is turned off but the power to it is still on. In that scenario getting a consumer to reach into a powered on light socket to press a button on the bulb, near the electrical connections, is not considered safe. That's my 5 minutes worth of reasons. Any more?
  • grenoire 7y ago
    None of these make a physical and digital reset together impossible.
  • tompccs 7y ago
    The fact that there is a logical chain of engineering considerations that got us to this point I take as granted (yes, the article thinks it could have been done better but, as you point out, there are safety problems). But our world is becoming more and more like a Doglas Adams novel - I seem to remember in one of the H2G2 books that they considered their civilisation so advanced that they did away with TV remotes, and the TV could detect that you wanted to change channel when you make a gesture. The upshot being that if you didn't want the channel to change or the volume to suddenly shoot up, you had to sit completely rigidly still for the duration of your programme.
    • heavenlyblue 7y ago
      I kind of do that to Spotify - I have to listen to tracks I don't necessarily like so that their suggestion mechanism would stop pushing me the same stuff I had already listened to. PS: That being said, I would still listen to stuff I don't like to discover something, but that's beyond the point - wasn't automation supposed to make our lives better in some way? :)
• tomohawk 7y ago
  Separation. Of. Concerns.
• mpettitt 7y ago
  Ikea bulbs use a 6 on-off cycle to reset, which is pretty simple (no timing), although toddler can do it. Hue bulbs require either a bridge (if it's linked to them, is one click in the interface, if not, you need to get the secret code which is printed on the actual bulb and enter it), or using a remote (press and hold I and O buttons for about 10 seconds, while holding remote next to bulb). The remote also resets other types of bulb, but has a pretty short range, so unless you have a multi-bulb fitting with several bulbs within about 10cm of the remote, it doesn't cause problems. Still a pain to do compared to the Ikea ones! Ikea smart outlets have a pin hole reset though, and absolutely no buttons other than that, which I've found makes them pretty toddler proof (the fish tank lighting kept getting set to random by our toddler when using a traditional timer outlet...)
• homero 7y ago
  This article is more annoying than the reset procedure which makes sense
• alkonaut 7y ago
  Smart bulbs are near useless tech behind dumb switches anyway. You have a light connected to an app but 50/50 chance that the last person left the switch in the right position for the bulb to get power at all. It might be possible to install return springs in the switches I’m not sure?
  • 15155 7y ago
    Smart switches are far, far better. Another bonus: constantly-powered wireless repeaters all throughout a property.
• qrbLPHiKpiux 7y ago
  Either that, or the engineers are trolling everyone and admin is too dumb to know it.
• esseeayen 7y ago
  Sometimes the physical reset button would be the worst way to reset. I have lifx gen 1 bulbs (post Kickstarter) throughout my house and they are in high places/not easy to access without renting a large ladder/scaffold. Even the worst on/off procedure to reset would be easier than climbing to get to a physical switch.
• yaakov34 7y ago
  I have a story on point. My brother is a manager at a company which installs electrical and HVAC systems, working mostly with very high-end private homes. They had this couple as clients, both very fancy architects, who designed their new home to be completely computer-controlled, from window shutters to air conditioners to lights, without any physical switches (I guess there was a remote and sensors or something). The architects had this theory that physical switches completely ruin the aesthetics of a room, and wouldn't abide having those horrible things in their dwelling. My brother says that he practically begged them to let him install backup physical switches - his proposal was that they would have a large panel in a closet somewhere with switches for everything in the house, which would still leave the switches hidden, but would at least make the house usable, if not very convenient, if the computer failed. But the clients insisted on no switches at all and the vendor of the computer system was willing to work with that, so that's what got built. Anyway, about a month after the project got handed over, my brother gets a call: the computer had somehow worked itself into the state of "beyond fucked", the new computer brought by the vendor was refusing to talk to the controllers, parts were backordered, long story short, the house had been unlivable for a week with no end in sight, and could my brother come over and save it somehow. I think he was able to turn on a few of the most critical things on in manual mode, but obviously he couldn't wire up the hundreds of electrical devices in the house. Not sure what happened later.
  • Flameancer 7y ago
    Yea no. I don’t see how that was even allowed in the first place for safety reason.
  • zrobotics 7y ago
    Wait, so the preferred solution was a (presumably RF) remote and voice activation? So you've finished watching a movie, and now have to search the couch cushions just to turn the light on? Or you are going to the bathroom late at night and have to say "OK Google" loudly enough for the mic to hear you, possibly waking people up? Carrying around a portable lantern sounds more convenient. Congratulations, somehow this house's lighting system is less ergonomic than my great-grandfather's house that was lit by kerosene lantern.
• emilfihlman 7y ago
  Sigh. Are people really so stupid to think that this is somehow bad?
• Talyen42 7y ago
  This is why I don't buy the "IoT smart home" future. There's no such thing as a "smart" device that doesn't typically break within 4-5 years. Dozens of such devices in a house means you'd be dealing with a broken device every few months, which is my nightmare. I want the LEAST amount of complexity possible to control all my critical living functions, from fridges to windows to lights to cars.
  • acje 7y ago
    I decided to give away my "smart" door lock and test setup of "smart" light bulbs. I have better things to do than pretending to be tech helpdesk for mye house/family for things that aren't really giving me much benefit. The door lock had some nice features, but I had no secondary way of entering the house without breaking something so I decided it was too high risc. The Philips HUE lightbulbs are not capable of remembering their last state so they default to full throttle, making them painful to live with.
    • bhj 7y ago
      > The Philips HUE lightbulbs are not capable of remembering their last state so they default to full throttle That is indeed the default behavior, but they can recall the previous state or another setting altogether after losing power. See “Power-on behavior” under Settings in the app.
      • geerlingguy 7y ago
        TIL, thanks! Won’t have to wake up to practically full sunlight at night if there’s a power blip now.
        • wlesieutre 7y ago
          It was a relatively recent addition, so if you were trying to do this before last December, that's why you didn't find it. https://huehomelighting.com/new-power-feature-to-retain-color-when-turned-back-on/ https://huehomelighting.com/new-power-feature-to-retain-colo... The two choices are: • Philips Hue default – Warm white, full brightness • Power loss recovery – Last used color and brightness
• DoctorOetker 7y ago
  if the device is raddio (bluetooth) controlled, wouldnt it be more sane to reset through the bluetooth device? perhaps a unique serial number on the bulb (verifies access to the bulb), and/or a bulb generated string of random bits (on/off), so the user enters for say 10 cycles if the bulb is on or off (prevents replay attacks)? ok, you should close the window blinds. or even simpler: just unscrew and rescrew the lightbulb to reset!
  • StavrosK 7y ago
    > wouldnt it be more sane to reset through the bluetooth device No, because you might be resetting because you can't connect with the bluetooth device. > or even simpler: just unscrew and rescrew the lightbulb to reset! How does the light bulb know it's unscrewed? How is that different from turning the switch off?
    • DoctorOetker 7y ago
      How does the light bulb know it's unscrewed? How is that different from turning the switch off? it could easily measure this by either: - a limit switch, or - a split center electrode: if there is a conducting path between left and right halves between center electrode, then the bulb is screwed in, or - measuring the capacitance between outer and center electrode: in open air there is the known capacitance, when screwed in both the electrodes of the housing, and the long parallel conductors going to the switches will alter the capacitance - myriad other ways: electrically there is a huge difference between an unscrewed bulb, and a screwd-in bulb in an open circuit
      • StavrosK 7y ago
        How does it do all this with no power?
        • DoctorOetker 7y ago
          a capacitor to power the microcontroller for a few milliseconds? actually, if the goal is to detect a reset operation by unscrewing: while unscrewing and shortly after the circuit is open, the previously contacting electrodes are still close by, such that it can be powered capacitively while it realizes it is being reset... this is probably noticable by measuring the change in complex impedance
• sverige 7y ago
  I've come to the conclusion that the point of the whole 'smart home' and 5G in every neighborhood is really just to improve surveillance of a greater percentage of the population for a bigger portion of the day by whomever. I don't see any other real practical advantage for consumers to networking any appliances. It's a lot more complexity for little to no gain.
• StavrosK 7y ago
  Okay so there are two considerations here: 1) You want this to be easy to reset. 2) You don't want this to be so easy to reset that children playing with it will do it by accident. I feel that a good compromise between the two would be a rule of "flick the switch on and off three times in two minutes, with the on state being longer than 3 sec". This makes it easy to reset, just flick it on and off three times slowly, but hard to reset accidentally, since children don't tend to flick light bulbs on and off that slowly. For added safety, you can make the "on" time 5 seconds instead of 3. I don't think "flick it on and off slowly three times, with each flick lasting at least five seconds" is hard to follow.
• davio 7y ago
  Reminds me of the key programming method for my 2003 car: Sit in the driver seat of your G35. Close all of the car doors. Insert the key into the ignition then remove it. Repeat this process six times within 10 seconds. Watch for the emergency lights to flash on the car to indicate that programming mode is active.
  • roland35 7y ago
    To turn off the beep when locking my rental Dodge minivan I had to press and hold the lock button for 4 seconds, then press the panic button twice. I was happy to do it since nothing annoys me more than that beep!
  • falcolas 7y ago
    Disabling seat belt alerts: Buckle and unbuckle the seat in question 25 consecutive times with no weight in the seat.
  • cptskippy 7y ago
    In the 2007 Honda Accord you had to push the Emergency Brake button a number of times while doing something. I don't recall the exact procedure but I found it highly amusing at the time.
    • perl4ever 7y ago
      Something I had never thought of before recently - what if you are in your car with pushbutton stop-start, like most newer cars have, and there's an emergency where you need to turn the engine off, but the computer isn't responding, either because you're not in park, there's an electrical malfunction, or whatever? I read that typically pressing the button several times or holding it down should shut the engine off. Which I'm sure seems to an engineer like a clever solution because isn't that what a person who's panicking would naturally do? Except that people don't necessarily do that; they hit the button once or twice and then decide it isn't working. Or they don't think of it at all because they're more focused on their car being on fire. As documented on a video I saw.
• pfdietz 7y ago
  The Internet of Things I Won't Buy
• asdfman123 7y ago
  The video reminds me of this classic video, "The missile knows where it is" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZe5J8SVCYQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZe5J8SVCYQ
• Balgair 7y ago
  If you are particularly bored, here's the 10 hour remix: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfYQwembcRo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfYQwembcRo
• deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
• yndoendo 7y ago
  C-Life wasted away by GE.
• robertelder 7y ago
  Here is the instructional video referenced on how to reset the bulb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BB6wj6RyKo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BB6wj6RyKo It reminds me of the 'cinco' product line: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSwqnR327fk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSwqnR327fk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG8ZKwaC1jY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG8ZKwaC1jY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5BZkaWZAAA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5BZkaWZAAA
• sizzzzlerz 7y ago
  The first thing I thought of was why anyone would possibly be interested in buying these things. Afterwards, I rationalized that there are those who want the latest hi-tech gadgets and see these as being state-of-the-art without really understanding their impacts. Finally, after reading the inane steps needed to reset your light bulb, I could only think that I would hope that purchasers keep the owner's manual (for a light bulb?) is a well-known place because after a couple of months, nobody is going to remember the steps.
• taylodl 7y ago
  Now all they need is a smartphone app to guide you through the reset process! Bwahahahahaha!!
• foxyv 7y ago
  I want a "Read Only" smart house. One that tells me when the refrigerator temperature is getting too high or if some appliance has a high resistance short that's making it use extra electricity. When it comes to everything else, I want switches and wires. I wish I could buy a TV without the stupid "Smart" features that turns on in seconds, but it seems like they all have something installed that makes me have to "Boot" my TV.
• rapind 7y ago
  up up down down left right left right B A
• perl4ever 7y ago
  I bought some light bulbs the other day that had, as a selling point specifically printed on the box, the statement that they are NOT connected to the Internet. They do turn on and off automatically though.