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FAA Bans Recalled Apple Laptops from Flights
- ohnope 7y agoMy MacBook model / year matches the recall, but my serial number isn't eligible. Does that mean I need to go to Apple's recall webpage and input the serial number at the TSA checkpoint? This is going to be interesting.
- mason55 7y agoI’m in the same boat. And also in the middle of a business trip with my laptop. Hopefully I don’t have any problems on the way home because I have no idea what I will do.
- mruts 7y agoNo one actually cares. Weed is also banned on planes, TSA agents have found some of mine on my carry on a couple times, and no one bats an eye.
- HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago! Okay, then.
- penagwin 7y agoI think the state you're in might matter for weed, but from what I'm seeing from other people in this thread I highly doubt the TSA will ban them. Sounds like the FAA list is separate from the TSA list and such.
- wyclif 7y agoDoesn't that depend on what states you're leaving and entering? I can't imagine TSA agents in a state where it's not yet legalized would look the other way.
- pfranz 7y agoAwhile ago I heard they wouldn't enforce it between specific destinations where it's legal (even though federally it's still illegal). More recently they've decided it's best to spend their resources elsewhere and generally stop spending time on it.
- kingosticks 7y agoSo they left it in the case? You'd have thought they'd at least dispose of it in the same way they do with bottles of water, even if they don't kick-up a fuss over it.
- mruts 7y agoYeah. I was surprised to. Might be an official policy or something. I've previously had weed found in California and wasn't surprised that they looked the other way. I was surprised however when they let me keep it even though I wasn't going to or from a state with legalization.
- ceejayoz 7y agoThey're not going to care a bit, just like they don't go around checking that everyone's phones are in airplane mode.
- stefan_ 7y agoBut you can keep bringing your 100 Wh powerbanks (coincidentally the same energy as contained in a 2015 15 inch MacBook battery).
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- wnissen 7y agoAs someone who had one of the bad batteries, where it swelled up to an alarming degree, I see a major difference between a generic power brick with some small possibility of a problem and a battery with a known problem.
- marcinzm 7y agoWhen I flew in Europe recently they gave an announcement saying using power banks in flight is prohibited.
- FireBeyond 7y agoAre those powerbanks subject to a safety recall?
- gesman 7y agoMy Laptop takes 2 x 230W power supplies, lol.
- wtallis 7y ago1. Watt-hours are not the same thing as Watts. 2. That's not a laptop, that's a luggable.
- s_y_n_t_a_x 7y agoA lot of flights do prohibit powerbanks.
- oasisbob 7y agoNot much of a coincidence - that happens to be right at the limit of how much power capacity you can have and still being the device on a plane per FAA regulations.
- jonnismash 7y agoHow the heck would a TSA agent know the difference
- zwkrt 7y agoIs the onus on the owner of the laptop or TSA? I guess both, but if you end up on a plane and something happens could you be prosecuted? The FAA is an organization I would not like to get on the wrong side of
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- pdonis 7y agoIf the FAA bans an item, it's up to the airline to ensure that such items are not in either carry-on or checked luggage.
- r1nkgrl 7y agoThey'll just scan the serial number when it passes through the x-ray machine, then use some OCR script to process the image and upload it to https://support.apple.com/15-inch-macbook-pro-battery-recall https://support.apple.com/15-inch-macbook-pro-battery-recall /s
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- derefr 7y agoMore likely they'd require Apple to dump that dataset out to them and use it locally, but otherwise yeah.
- sokoloff 7y agoAs laptops are repaired, this database would need to be continually updated. I would imagine getting an internet connection and just using the Apple site (or a dedicated API endpoint) would be much easier.
- 1e-9 7y agoIn addition to the 432,000 Macbook Pros sold in the US from mid-2015 to 2017 being outright banned from flying, there will be all the other Mackbook Pros sold from about 2013 to mid-2015 that outwardly look just like the banned ones. I suppose all those lookalikes will be pulled out and have their serial numbers checked, which is in microscopic print on the back, which will definitely slow down Pre-check when you would otherwise leave the Macbook in the bag. That's a lot of hardware that has suddenly become much less valuable to travelers. Seems like Apple needs to do more than just replace batteries. Edit: Can check serial number.
- ysavir 7y agoI will be flying out tomorrow with my 2013 15" MBP, so this was the exact thought that crossed my mind when I saw the article.
- saghm 7y ago> In addition to the 432,000 Macbook Pros sold in the US from mid-2015 to 2017 being outright banned from flying, there will be all the other Mackbook Pros sold from about 2013 to mid-2015 that outwardly look just like the banned ones. Am I missing something? Weren't the 2016 models the ones that changed to USB-C, q flatter keyboard, etc.? Those don't look identical to the 2015 and earlier models
- 1e-9 7y agoThe mid-2015 models are also covered by the ban.
- abrowne 7y agoApple built and sold the 2015 model for another couple years alongside the USB-C ones.
- bayofpigs 7y agoI bought a refurbished mid-2015 in 2017. Looking up the serial number Apple indicates it's either not affected or already addressed. Pretty sure this model would get flagged for a flight. A few weeks ago replaced one of the speakers and the batteries looked a little puffy. https://imgur.com/3Dav7hH https://imgur.com/3Dav7hH. Probably shouldn't be flying.
- tyingq 7y agoThe TSA will clearly have issues managing this. All MacBooks look the same to them. They can't currently manage basic stuff like "baby formula might need different rules than our 3oz standard for liquids." Expect pressure on Apple to make it a non-issue.
- tombert 7y agoThey even said that laptops with replaced batteries are fine...how on earth are they going to enforce that? What's stopping me from saying "Oh yeah, I got the battery serviced last month"?
- jedberg 7y agoNothing. Except your desire not to commit a crime of taking banned items on a plane.
- penagwin 7y agoI can't imagine this would be effective. I highly doubt most owners of the affected Macbooks are even aware of the the FAA ban
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- vageli 7y ago> They even said that laptops with replaced batteries are fine...how on earth are they going to enforce that? What's stopping me from saying "Oh yeah, I got the battery serviced last month"? Given the reactions to the Boeing news that I've heard, it would be surprising to me if people would risk jeopardising the safety of a flight to bring a personal item. However, people do remain people and act accordingly.
- tyingq 7y agoThey were also conditioned for years with nonsense like "no cell phones on, no wifi, for the entire flight", than saw that rescinded later. Or the TSA seizing tweezers and other harmless items, then backing off later. They've been conditioned that the rules aren't always sensible, even though some clearly are.
- slang800 7y agoThe article doesn't explain how they intend to enforce this ban. A recalled MacBook looks identical to the non-recalled ones, so this seems like a pointless rule.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- mikeash 7y agoIt will probably be quite effective. Travelers will see these articles, and airlines will probably send out reminders to people not to bring these machines on the plane. Most people with them will get them fixed or leave them at home, and the risk is greatly diminished. It's not a bomb where any failure to keep it off the planes is catastrophic. They can afford to have some people defying the ban.
- outworlder 7y ago> where any failure to keep it off the planes is catastrophic In-flight fires are some of the deadliest issues one mzy encounter. They can indeed be catastrophic.
- mikeash 7y agoSure, but the odds of a fire actually happening are still quite low. Unlike a bomb, where it's pretty likely to explode in flight because that's the whole point.
- nvrspyx 7y agoEven if it gets fixed, how would TSA know that? If TSA doesn't check at all, then the "solution" is relying on people following a rule that has no enforcement. How many people are going to actually read these articles to know which models are affected? How many people are going to remember the articles when it's time for them to go to the airport? How many people are simply going to ignore the rule because their MBP is their primary computer and would rather not go without it? Can they afford to have some people or most people defying the ban? Because as it stands, it's impossible to tell how many people are just going to voluntarily follow a rule with (close to) zero enforcement....unless they actually enforce it
- gesman 7y agoAnd also - how it will affect TSA Precheck-ers who currently does not need to pull out laptops?
- pdonis 7y agoIf the FAA bans an item, it's up to the airline, not TSA, to ensure that such items are not in either carry-on or checked luggage.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- mindgam3 7y agoNot quite as bad as it sounds. > Laptops that have replaced batteries won’t be impacted Edit: re how to check, in theory you could prove it was fixed by showing the service receipt from Apple. In practice, I have no idea what would happen. But I feel like you'd get through if you showed up with a printed receipt taped to your laptop.
- saagarjha 7y agoHow are they going to check this?
- NikkiA 7y agoLying to a TSA officer or a FAA agent would likely be a felony, onus is on the passenger to not want to commit a felony. I.e same honour-system that works for 99% of bans.
- bentpins 7y agoIs it possible to identify a laptop that has had the replacement?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- skunkworker 7y agoI'm lost as to how this will be effectively enforced. I've got a 2015 15" MBP that I use as a daily driver and after submitting the serial to apple shows "It's not in the affected serial number range. Our records show that your device has already been serviced as part of this Program." But how on earth would the TSA ever know to check or tell the difference, unless they ask you straight up.
- bredren 7y agoI thought this was about keyboards making pilots unable to do crucial data entry at first.
- jedberg 7y agoTo everyone saying “how will they enforce this?” the answer is the same as everything else. If you take a gun on a plane and get through TSA with it, you still committed a felony. If you then use the gun and put a hole in the plane, you’ll be personally liable for that. If you take an explody battery on a plane and it explodes, the liability is on you. The TSA might ask you if your laptop has an unsafe battery. That will probably be the extent of the enforcement. Now you know that you could be committing a crime if you haven’t checked it.
- jdenning 7y agoHas anyone found any information about how to prove you've had the battery replaced? My battery started swelling a couple months before the recall. I was in Brazil at the time so I had to have it replaced by a third-party repair shop.
- amaterasu 7y agoMine was repaired by apple prior to the recall, and is still listed as requiring replacement via the serial number search too...
- js2 7y agoMultiple folks in this thread have asked how the TSA is going to deal with this. The answer is: it won't. These laptops were banned as a "dangerous good" by the FAA. This is separate from the TSA's list of items banned as a security threat. > The Transportation Security Administration also has rules on "prohibited items" that pose a security threat. Though they sometimes overlap, the TSA security rules are separate from the FAA dangerous goods safety rules discussed here. https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/ https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/
- krustyburger 7y agoGiven that the TSA has something like a 5% success rate (according to their own internal measures) at identifying things they’re actively screening, I think the best bet in any event would have been to just try to take the laptop through.
- cm2187 7y agoTo those who wonder why you can’t board with a thermometer: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IrdYueB9pY4 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IrdYueB9pY4
- Kuinox 7y agoIn a recent thermometer there is no mercury anymore. By recent i mean in the last few decades.
- Causality1 7y agoI wonder if this was a simple manufacturing mistake or an intentional design gamble which failed. The Note 7 battery failures and Macbook Pro 'flexgate' being examples of the latter.
- Aloha 7y agoyeah, TSA isn't going to do one iota of enforcement
- pdonis 7y agoIf the FAA bans an item, it's up to the airline, not TSA, to ensure that such items are not in either carry-on or checked luggage.
- dahart 7y agoThe TSA currently enforces other FAA bans, like limits on alcohol. And why have you posted this comment 6 times?
- coin 7y agoDo you have a source for this?
- dahart 7y agoSure. Google “tsa” and click “what can I bring?”, it goes right to the descriptions which cite the FAA regulations. https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/whatcanibring/all https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/whatcanibring/...
- nixpulvis 7y agoI clicked your link, and ctrl-f'd "FAA", it only cites the FAA for "Alcoholic beverages" and "Alcoholic beverages over 140 proof", "Car Parts", ... I gave up at this point thanks to an error: An AJAX HTTP error occurred. HTTP Result Code: 503 StatusText: Service Unavailable Finally I searched for "Laptops" which doesn't mention the FAA at all. "Laptops Carry On Bags: Yes Checked Bags: Yes Please remove the laptops from your bag and place it in a separate bin for X-ray screening. TSA Pre® travelers do not need to remove shoes, laptops, 3-1-1 liquids, belts or light jackets. Please see TSA Pre® for more information."
- chiefalchemist 7y agoThe bad news is, going forward this will discourage companies from disclosing issues sooner rather than later. It may also, ever so slightly, discourage innovation if such changes might create more risk than reward.
- dap 7y ago> While there have been repeated incidents of phones, laptops and other devices overheating and catching fire in passenger compartments of planes, it hasn’t ever caused a fire to spread. The flames can be extinguished with water and flight attendants are trained how to address it. I was under the impression that water was the wrong thing to put on a Li-Ion battery fire. Is that right?
- NikkiA 7y agoThe FAA has a video on the subject: https://youtu.be/vS6KA_Si-m8?t=185 https://youtu.be/vS6KA_Si-m8?t=185 I suspect the rationale is that any potential for exposing new parts of the battery chemistry to water are dwarfed by the effectiveness of stopping the thermal runaway, and battery chemistry that's already reacted can't react again.
- vageli 7y ago> The FAA has a video on the subject: > https://youtu.be/vS6KA_Si-m8?t=185 https://youtu.be/vS6KA_Si-m8?t=185 > I suspect the rationale is that any potential for exposing new parts of the battery chemistry to water are dwarfed by the effectiveness of stopping the thermal runaway, and battery chemistry that's already reacted can't react again. Immediately following that clip is an exhibit showcasing the deployment of a Halon extinguisher to extinguish the fire followed by water to cool the battery pack.
- NikkiA 7y agoGiven that the clip is listed as methods to put out such fires, listed in order of effectiveness, most effective first, yes of course they list other methods, but as you can see they consider water most effective, halon + water for cooling less effective, and halon alone barely effective (the fire restarts).
- userbinator 7y agoWater is perfectly fine. It's cheap, nonflammable, and has a very high heat capacity. Lithium ion batteries have no metallic lithium, which is what can react with water.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- AlexDragusin 7y agoI am wondering how long this non-removable battery fiasco is gonna last, instead of an expensive recall it would been a simple battery recall and swap that doesn't involve leaving the laptop in service for any amount of time and doable on short notice so the travelers would not be inconvenienced. On top of that, when non-removable batteries fail, they usually take down the whole device with them beyond repair, while a properly placed removable battery at the edge (back) of the device would less likely do damage the device.
- Zanni 7y agoIndefinitely, because most people do not consider it a "fiasco." Have you seen what the batteries look like for, say, the new 13" Macbook Pro or the 12" Macbook? They're not bricks you could just feed into a slot. They're multi-part systems that distribute the battery through the gaps in the case. Fixing them in place means they don't need extra casing support, don't need to be near a specific edge and are flexible enough to maximize space usage inside the case. Yes, all those issues could be addressed by making Apple laptops thicker and heavier, and there's a large contingent on HN that wants exactly that. But ... there's an even larger contingent outside the techi-verse that loves thin and light laptops.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- AlexDragusin 7y agoYes I've seen them and it's driven by the misguided quest for the thinnest, form over function devices while refusing to accept that battery technology is not yet up to the task. Particularly when you consider the volatile Lithium based tech which is sensitive to heat, let's put them in enclosed cases where lots of heat is generated, make them non removable, what could go wrong. Here I just put something rough together to demonstrate that it can be done even with the thin devices if the motivations were in the right place: https://www.ypson.com/hn/battery-thin-device.png https://www.ypson.com/hn/battery-thin-device.png Took me a few minutes, surely this can be done given the budgets and great engineers available in the employ of the major companies.
- turk73 7y agoGuess laptops will end up like 100% of baby products--recalled so that the resale value is nil.
- Tigah_pawszzz 7y agoWhat’s also note-worthy is how often MacBook Pro batteries get a bulge. I had 3 in the past few years and every single one of them got a bulge. I really hope Apple would somehow fix this:(
- olalonde 7y agoIn case you're wondering whether your Macbook Pro needs to be serviced: https://support.apple.com/15-inch-macbook-pro-battery-recall https://support.apple.com/15-inch-macbook-pro-battery-recall
- skunkworker 7y agoAlso https://appleid.apple.com/account/manage https://appleid.apple.com/account/manage is a good way to get serial numbers of all your devices in 1 spot.
- foobiekr 7y agoIt's amazing that months later this still doesn't distinguish between "already serviced" and "not applicable" which makes it hard to tell if Apple is, perhaps, making a mistake on the former conclusion.
- floatingatoll 7y agoThis doesn't mean that TSA will be checking serial numbers. It means that people will be scared and consider checking if they need a recall, and completing it, instead of delaying. It does mean that if you bring a laptop for which the recall applies onto a plane, you could be found at fault if it crashes. Assuming you live and they're able to read the serial number from it, anyways. I assume that comes with some sort of financial liability, which at the (iirc) ~$12mil/person cost of life used by the USgov + the cost an entire plane, seems a bit much to risk. Battery recalls are risk-of-death recalls. Do not put off repairs.
- Waterluvian 7y agoI have a hard time believing that this is all just to point the finger after a plane crashes. Sure the logistics of enforcing it are difficult, but this does have the effect of telling the public not to do it.
- floatingatoll 7y agoIt's for "dear public, please self-police so your plane doesn't crash". That there's a possible stick behind that "don't die" carrot is not the primary point, and honestly not one most people will consider.
- hdfbdtbcdg 7y agoA lot of people are commenting how hard this will be to enforce/easy to avoid. That's not the right way to look at it. If someone now takes one of these laptops onto a flight and it burns mid-flight that person is now criminally liable. At the very least they will have to pay for the emergency landing etc..
- dawnerd 7y agoThats a bit unfair though. Do you think most people will know if their laptop if affected? This is the first I've heard of it and honestly can't remember what year my MBP is.
- el_benhameen 7y agoArticle says that gate agents are supposed to make an announcement before boarding, which I think I remember happening for the exploding Galaxy, too. Still plenty of people who don't know the model year of their laptop, but a little less plausible deniability.
- hanniabu 7y agoI can barely hear those announcements, just sounds like a muffled mess.
- jhabdas 7y agoApple sent me an email directly stating my Mac was affected. My early 2017 MPB has run hot enough to burn through 2 $80 charging cables already. I've since switched operating systems to Linux and have no intention of getting serviced as there are no authorized service centers in my area unless I get on a plane. Would I trust anyone else touching my Mac anyway? The answer is no and I plan to buy a Huawei replacement laptop with 5G.
- andrewnicolalde 7y agoIsn’t there some way you can send it to them? Worst that can happen is they slightly increase the computer’s resale value.
- rubicon33 7y agoI had my battery replaced under this program. Can I bring it on the plane now?
- el_benhameen 7y agoYes, laptops with new batteries are not part of the ban.
- jhabdas 7y agoDid they allow you to watch while they replaced the battery?
- berkeleyjunk 7y agoI had to turn in the Macbook Pro at the Apple store and it took them more than a week to return it. They had to ship to a centralized repair center. I doubt anyone got to watch.
- rubicon33 7y agoNo. They had it for a week and called me back in to pick it up. The replacement (as far as I understand) is not done at the Apple store.
- surds 7y agoWhy is critical info so often missing from important articles like this one? Where do I find out if my MacBook has been recalled? Is there a tool somewhere for me to check or is it based just on a combination of year and model?
- rhn_mk1 7y agoWhat are that kind of decisions based on? This is a repeat of the Samsung Note (?) fiasco, which, as someone else correctly stated, is just going to cause manufacturers not to disclose defects. What is the actual criterion they used to determine that the device is dangerous? Did they estimate the likelihood of the battery catching fire, or did they just rely on manufacturer information? If it's the former, where can I see the numbers (and compare them with other devices?). If it's the latter, will I be safe forever to bring cheap no-name electronics on planes?
- doguozkan 7y agoThe article says there are safety instructions from 2016 which dictate goods with recalled batteries should not be taken on flights, and customers who had the batteries replaced aren't restricted by this.
- sanguy 7y agoFlew yesterday out of Dulles and they were inspecting and ordering "no fly" on certain models. Was a complete shit-show.
- stronglikedan 7y agoI hope they at least have a separate line for that. Apple folks are used to waiting in extra long lines anyway, right?
- magduf 7y agoExactly. This sounds great to me: they should have a separate (long) line for the Apple customers, so people like me with Dells can just cruise right through security.
- 1e-9 7y agoHow were they determining if a model was banned? Was it serial number, Click "About This Mac", outward appearance, or some other method?
- apexalpha 7y agoCan Apple just send a notification to all affected devices?
- r0m4n0 7y agoJust adding my mbp anecdote. I purchased my MacBook Pro in 2015. A year ago I noticed the top 15% of my trackpad wasn’t clicking. I did a little research and saw that this is sometimes the first symptom of an expanded battery and to bring it in. I finally made an appointment a few months ago and came in to have it investigated further. In the appointment they told me they “disassembled and confirmed everything was functioning properly.” They did a software diagnostic which also confirmed the same. The service person came out and said the very top of the trackpad never clicks and that’s how it was designed. They sent me on my way... a few weeks ago I received an email saying the battery was recalled. In summary, the “genius” looked at an expanded battery and proceeded to tell me everything is fine. I respect the fact that apple has a presence that allows you to have your devices inspected but it gave me a false sense of security. I had even researched replacing the battery myself up until that appointment
- waitwhatwhere 7y agoApple Geniuses aren’t trained in electronics & troubleshooting. They get some recipes and when none of those have an answer they fallback to “Lie to the user.” Source: colleague who was a manager of a Genius team at a big city Apple store. They are meant to help Apple save face. Put that old school customer service in person touch on things. It’s not explicitly stated like that in training. They just don’t know, and concoct an answer that the avg customer won’t know is bullshit. It’s how it shakes out given the recipes they’re not allowed to deviate from and the hiring of Apple users, not trained electronics technicians.
- vanilla_nut 7y agoA growing problem since Tim Cook took over as CEO seems to be Apple techs trying to slither their way out of providing service. I've dealt with a number of flat-out lies that I had to actually call techs out on to get my devices serviced. Examples: I bought Airpods last year. When they were about 10 months old, it was December in NYC, where I live. It gets a little cold, but not that cold -- freezing point is about the lowest it gets, maybe a few degrees below that at night. When I ran with my Airpods, they started to shut off randomly on colder days (40 Fahrenheit or below) -- clearly a sign of an aging battery not providing enough charge. Particularly since they started working again when I took them back inside. I brought them into the Apple Store, and the tech tried to convince me that "Bluetooth just doesn't work well in the cold" and that they couldn't do anything about the issue. I had to basically beg the "Genius" to replace them, which promptly fixed my issue. My iPhone SE would become randomly unresponsive to touches after they replaced the battery. I had to come in 3 times, reinstall iOS without using a backup twice, and beg the Genius (again) to replace my phone because their touchscreen test "didn't see any issues"... because it was a spurious issue that wasn't present all the time. I only got it replaced becaused I lucked out and the issue surfaced when the Genius was trying to start a diagnostic. They've also tried to sneak their way out of servicing my Macbook Pro for "staingate" (coating wearing off the screen, covered by a 4 year extended policy) because, and I quote, "it isn't that bad." Apple stores have clearly been prioritizing margins instead of customer experience. Those of us in the know can usually fight our way around these customer hostile policies, but I feel awful for my parents, grandparents, etc. -- they've been bamboozled by Apple into upgrading their phones for issues that should have been covered for free, just because they're trusting of the techs. It's gotten to the point that I don't recommend Apple products to them because the in store experience has gotten so bad. It wasn't always this way. I remember when the original iPhone first came out that they were much, much, much more lax about replacing things pro bono, both for laptops and for phones. It's only since ~2012 or so that I've noticed service went really downhill, which happens to coincide with some restructuring of the Apple Store. I miss the old Apple.
- chairmanmow 7y agoJust wondering, I have this Mac, and I had the battery replaced, but I doubt there's any way the FAA can tell that, maybe they can. Wonder what'll happen if I try to fly with it.