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The fungus that devastates the Cavendish banana has now arrived in Latin America
- tux1968 7y agoThese sentences seemed at odds with one another: > Banana agriculture is itself partly to blame for the potential of the fungus to spread. Commercial plantations grow almost exclusively one clonal variety, called the Cavendish; these plants’ identical genetics mean they are also identically susceptible to disease. and then very shortly after saying: > ... residents of banana-producing nations rely on a multitude of local varieties, including plantains, for their food security. Panama disease TR4 has a notoriously broad host range, meaning it threatens nearly all of these varieties to some degree.
- maldeh 7y agoNot sure of the specifics here - one reconciliation of the two statements could be, that Cavendish proved to be a good transport vector for this particular strain of fungus to spread rapidly on a global scale, notwithstanding its broad virulence.
- mikeash 7y agoI’d take that to mean that the residents of those countries don’t typically get their bananas from commercial plantations.
- ggm 7y agoI don't see these in conflict. commercially exported banana is based on clonal reproduction and is therefore highly exposed to risk of a disease. All banana varieties (to some extent) have risk, the locally consumed varieties are not always Cavendish, or LadyFinger but include more rich varieties which may or may not be clonally sourced, but do include seeded bananas and plantain varieties, but also have the risk: its just commercial agriculture has driven to a very very high risk of consequence.
- unreal37 7y agoFrom Wikipedia: "Cavendish bananas accounted for 47% of global banana production between 1998 and 2000, and the vast majority of bananas entering international trade." Residents of banana-producing countries eat more varieties of bananas (locally produced), but even those bananas are at risk.
- jesse_m 7y agohow will we express the scale of something now?
- ksherlock 7y agoAnd has been since every 6 months since 2008. Probably even before then, but hn.alogolia.com doesn't go back further.
- sn41 7y agoBananas are the prime cautionary tale against monoculture. The number of native breeds which are now gone for the sake of promotion of one particular breed leads to less resilience against disease and pests. Just in my corner of India, there are various varieties. [1] However, in the U.S., the only variety you often get to see is the insipid Cavendish, whose only merit seems to be shelf-life. If you travel in the tropics, do try out local varieties. It is an amazing fruit (?). [1] http://mywordsnthoughts.com/myworld/all-about-kerala/different-types-of-banana-available-in-kerala/ http://mywordsnthoughts.com/myworld/all-about-kerala/differe...
- latchkey 7y agoI currently live in Vietnam, but was recently traveling around Laos by motorbike. The bananas there are almost inedible... they taste awful. I found it fascinating how different they were compared with Vietnamese bananas. That said, I saw huge fields of farmed trees literally everywhere there (as well as in VN). I don't think they are in any real danger of disappearing like these articles say. It is very sensationalist news.
- JackDrury 7y agoAre you sure they weren't cooking bananas (plantains)?
- latchkey 7y agoYes
- himlion 7y agoInteresting, I was just going to say how varied and incredibly tasty the local Lao bananas are. I wonder if we have different taste or you've tried different ones than I have. The ones I like best are the very small "good smelling bananas" (ກ້ວຍຫອມ).
- latchkey 7y ago
- anfilt 7y agoI find it weird that people would not like other variety of bananas. Like there are generally more than one type of apples, potatoes, onions, tomotoes, and lettuce at most grocery stores. I would like the choice.
- gervu 7y agoIt's often worth parsing "people would like" as "marketers think people would like." Or even, "although people would like, someone's trying to maximize profit margins." And that second one is notably is taken within the scope of that quarter, or the next few years that they expect to work there, or even the next few decades before they expect to retire. Which often conflicts with longer-term sustainability problems like retained biodiversity.
- geomark 7y agoConsumers in some countries don't even know there is more than one type. Monoculture and mass distribution rule. Where I live now there are half-a-dozen varieties that are routinely eaten.
- chewbacha 7y agoIf memory serves, bananas are only profitable as a monoculture. In addition to bananas being triploidy and unable to seed, it’s basically impossible to grow and establish the seedless variety of plant by any other means other than cloning. It’s a pretty unique fruit and it’s economy has tumbled in the past already got these very reasons.
- brink 7y agoThere's a GMO variety of the Cavendish that is resistant to the Panama Disease. https://www.accessscience.com/content/genetic-engineering-of-bananas-to-combat-panama-disease/BR1208171 https://www.accessscience.com/content/genetic-engineering-of...
- autokad 7y agoI want to have GMO big mikes =(
- Aloha 7y agoI've always wanted to try a Big Mike
- slavik81 7y agoAtlas Obscura had an article in which they ordered a box of Big Mikes from the Miami Fruit Company. It's a little on the pricy side to ship boxes of boutique fruits across the country, but they have quite an interesting selection. If I was in your shoes, I might wait for Big Mikes to be in season, then order the banana variety pack[1] (and ask that they include a Big Mike). You could pre-order a large box (10-14lbs) of Big Mikes[2], but that seems like a lot to buy at once. I've never heard of these folks before today, but now I kind of want to throw a fruit tasting party. [1]: https://miamifruit.org/collections/fresh-and-dried/products/banana-variety-box https://miamifruit.org/collections/fresh-and-dried/products/... [2]: https://miamifruit.org/collections/banana-pre-orders/products/gros-michel-banana-box-pre-order https://miamifruit.org/collections/banana-pre-orders/product...
- deadmetheny 7y agoI regularly order fruit from these guys and can attest that it's all very good quality. The banana sampler in particular is one of the few ways I can actually get a good variety of bananas outside of being on holiday.
- Invictus0 7y ago
- caymanjim 7y agoSince it's inevitable that the current bananas will collapse from this, maybe it'll speed acceptance of GMO products. People will ignore their unfounded fears once it starts affecting them.
- spraak 7y agoPeople are already comfortable and used to other cultivars of other fruits. GMO isn't even necessary here, just other types of bananas.
- caymanjim 7y agoFrom the article: > Besides the Cavendish bananas that dominate modern supermarket shelves, residents of banana-producing nations rely on a multitude of local varieties, including plantains, for their food security. Panama disease TR4 has a notoriously broad host range, meaning it threatens nearly all of these varieties to some degree. Unfortunately, pretty much all banana species are vulnerable. Even if Cavendish is the most-affected, replacing Cavendish with another cultivar isn't a complete solution. Other banana cultivars don't have the same properties, and breeding a replacement dessert banana that is resistant, and then spreading that cultivar (and hoping that it too doesn't fall prey) is not a trivial undertaking. If a GMO solution can save the existing cultivars, which have established consumers, it's a better approach. Since all bananas are grown using monoculture grafting (because we long ago bred the seeds out), it's not as easy to produce new cultivars as with other fruits.
- winrid 7y agoFun fact - bananas are berries.
- IvyMike 7y agoStrange times for Berry Club. https://www.mrlovenstein.com/comic/643 https://www.mrlovenstein.com/comic/643
- lioeters 7y ago"Yes! We Have No Bananas" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes!_We_Have_No_Bananas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes!_We_Have_No_Bananas
- carapace 7y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gros_Michel_banana https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gros_Michel_banana > This variety was once the dominant export banana to Europe and North America, grown in Central America, but in the 1950s, Panama disease, a wilt caused by the fungus Fusarium oxysporum f.sp. cubense, wiped out vast tracts of Gros Michel plantations in Central America, though it is still grown on non-infected land throughout the region. The song is from 1923, so likely no connection to the great banana blight, eh? Too bad, I thought so too.
- lioeters 7y agoI believe you're right, the song predates any widespread fungus issue with bananas. Would have been cool if the lyrics had been a satire / poke at the situation. I did find the following note about the song: > In 2008, The New York Times ran an op-ed, with the title "Yes, We Will have no Bananas", regarding the outcome of fungal diseases afflicting the Cavendish Banana https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/18/opinion/18koeppel.html https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/18/opinion/18koeppel.html So we weren't the first to make the pun/connection - great minds think alike? :) I deserved the downvotes though, I knew it when I posted the flippant comment.
- ralusek 7y ago> Desperate, the predecessors of Chiquita and Dole switched production [from the Gros Michel] to a banana they knew to be resistant to Panama disease, despite its relatively bland flavor: the now-ubiquitous Cavendish. I want to try the Gros Michel. What I'm eating is relatively bland?
- andrewla 7y agoIt might be urban legend, but apparently banana-flavored candy imitates the flavor of the Gros Michel, which is why it doesn’t really taste like a “banana” as we know it.
- dmcdm 7y agoA much repeated myth regarding the Gros Michel is the reason that artificial banana flavoring tastes so "strong" to the point of being "obviously fake" to modern consumers is its basis on the flavor of Gros Michel, vs the much milder Cavendish they are accustomed to. This is apparently just a myth, but regardless I guess some say Cavendish tastes like artificial banana. http://hoaxes.org/weblog/comments/was_artificial_banana_flavor_based_on_the_gros_michel_banana http://hoaxes.org/weblog/comments/was_artificial_banana_flav...
- diego_moita 7y ago> What I'm eating is relatively bland? If you don't live in a tropical country, yes. Bananas in temperate countries taste like Styrofoam. I don't know if this is a problem specific with the Cavendish or because the bananas aren't ripened in the plant, but in Africa and South America (and probably Southern Asia) bananas have a far more intense flavor. Same happens to guavas. Mangoes and passion fruit, however, keep the same strong flavor.
- blondie9x 7y agoWhat’s most scary is this. If the food can still be produced in a climate we have injured, will it even be nutritious? The answer is unfortunately no in most cases. Over farming leads to soil being turned over too much and plants that do not produce fruits and vegetables with vitamins. Another bad finding is high atmospheric carbon levels drive rice malnutrition. If rice then what else? And now a worsening climate is leading to plant extinction also. This is double bad news.
- helkafen 7y agoAt least the soil issues can be fixed through regenerative practices, which also help mitigate climate change to some extent. Farmers should receive funding to safely transition to better practices.
- jedberg 7y ago> Other scientists—most notably, James Dale of the Queensland University of Technology in Australia—are testing genetically modified disease-resistant Cavendish bananas, but public acceptance of GMOs could prove a significant obstacle to their widespread adoption. This is the problem right here. The lack of science education. A banana modified in a lab and one that is bred through selective breeding are both "GMO", it's just that one is done in a targeted manner and the other relies on random luck in the mutations. If people weren't so afraid of science this problem would already be solved. The two main producers refuse to even consider the "GMO" bananas because they are afraid they won't sell. If they would just take up the cause, they could put enough money behind this to solve the problem in a year.
- Fr0styMatt88 7y agoI wonder how that sentiment will change when people have no other choice. I can imagine now that it’s easy to say no to GMO bananas because there are still other varieties; it’s not something that people may see as directly affecting them. I think it’ll be a different story if non-GMO bananas become crazy expensive or non-existent.
- ksaj 7y agoWe bred bananas to be like they are, and then used clones thereafter. They never looked like Cavendish in nature. There is nothing stopping banana breeders from doing it again. And now we're stuck with a mono culture. Why? Because there is something stopping the production of varietals. Patents are stopping advancements from happening. Just like with corn, except things are worse with bananas. That's the real problem. Not GMO or whatever other straw man. Mono-species fail in the end, and then we create new technologies to cover for it, instead of simply breeding new variants within the species - because patents and profitable monocultures.
- echelon 7y ago> Patents are stopping variety from happening. Just like with corn, except things are worse with bananas. How can the patents not have already expired? Bananas have been the same roughly all of my life, unless I'm wildly misremembering. Surely there is no way the Cavendish is still protected by patents.
- JackFr 7y ago> the epicenter of the global banana export industry Sigh.
- jjeaff 7y agoIs the worry that they will just go away overnight all at once, but it just hasn't happened yet? Because the current price of bananas sure doesn't indicate a shortage.
- PopeDotNinja 7y agoA short, recent discussion I posted on /r/AskScienceDiscussion... "If Cavendish/dessert bananas get wiped out by some disease (e.g. Panama disease), how long would it take to cultivate a new dessert banana from wild growing options?" https://www.reddit.com/r/AskScienceDiscussion/comments/c75ctk/if_cavendishdessert_bananas_get_wiped_out_by_some/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskScienceDiscussion/comments/c75ct... P.S. For the casually curious, /r/AskScienceDiscussion is a more forgiving, less strict place to ask questions than /r//r/AskScience. It's more ask Bill Nye in a podcast than pose a perfect question to pass the scientist mod filter.
- axaxs 7y agoSo, my wife is from SEA. I never bothered to look into the name of their bananas, nor do they know it by any other name, but they are delicious. They are small, and grow more in a straight line than a bunch. While a Cavendish is mostly subtle, these taste like real fruit, more hearty and definitely sweet. So, my question is, why are we in USA stuck with these dud bananas, even in the absence of the Gros Michel?
- cryptozeus 7y agoI guess there is always banana nut bread !
- lukejduncan 7y agoCan anyone recommend a good book to learn more about the GMO debate?
- quickthrower2 7y ago"The banana is one step closer to disappearing" - seems to be overstating it. They mean the Cavendish Banana and therefore large scale Banana cultivation. However we could still have a variety of bananas, lower scale and have banana be more of a treat than a common food.
- onetimemanytime 7y ago>>However we could still have a variety of bananas, lower scale and have banana be more of a treat than a common food. Those that could afford the $XX / lbs price would.
- quickthrower2 7y agoIt wouldn't be the only food like this, and nutritionally I think people can survive without bananas. I'd miss em though. Nothing like frozen banana + milk blended.
- ptah 7y agointeresting video illustrating how corporations control US military action
- disillusioned 7y agoFun banana facts: Bananas are the most-sold item at most grocery stores and, notably, Wal-Mart. Bananas also have the highest standard deviation in terms of predicting if a given (known) consumer will purchase bananas in a given store run. (At least as compared to other food products and consumables.) When predicting a consumer's shop, it's generally pretty easy to make a highly educated guess about their purchasing activity and, thus, to project volumes for products. But bananas defy that wisdom, except that people in aggregate buy a lot of them. Someone who buys bananas reliably every week for months will randomly stop for months, and then start again, for no perceivable rhyme or reason. Bananas aren't seasonal purchases like berries or corn or other fruits or vegetables. Bananas also tend to be a high purchase at gas stations and convenience stores. Bananas have to be effectively "tricked" into continuing to ripen after being prematurely picked and then refrigerated for transit. So there are banana ripening centers that pump ethylene through a chilled chamber to get them to ripen.
- neiman 7y ago> Bananas are the most-sold item at most grocery stores and, notably, Wal-Mart. In which country? The US? This can't be globally true..
- apexalpha 7y agoI've heard this about Dutch stores as well. Supermarkets sell banana's at 0% margin or even a loss simply because it lures customers in.
- nimajneb 7y agoThey have been 49 cents per pound in the grocery store in NY, both where I grew and in WNY for as long as I can remember. They have got to be at a loss if you consider they don't adjust for inflation or gas prices, etc. Milk does this too if I'm not mistaken, a lot of grocery stores use that as a customer lure as well.
- disillusioned 7y agoOr, put another way, because they HAVE to sell them: if you're the grocery that _doesn't_ carry bananas, people will move their shop elsewhere.
- ptah 7y agowould it help if banana plantations were not monocultures? would it stop the spread if other trees were in between
- thelittleone 7y agoBananas are an important staple with many potential uses. A guy in Bali came up with a process that makes flour from green bananas. The resulting bread products are delicious. Far better than regular gluten free bread and better than regular bread for toast (amazing crispiness). Lots of cafes are using this bread to satisfy the ever growing hippie tourism trade.
- ArmandGrillet 7y agoRelated to the topic, I highly recommend this short documentary about the Cavendish banana and the deadly fungus affecting it: https://youtu.be/YkI3zkQ4WBo https://youtu.be/YkI3zkQ4WBo
- acd 7y agoCavendish banana are monoculture clones from the same original banana. That means that any disease that attacks one can attack all since the banana share the same dna and protective mechanism. The solution is not to clone with the same dna. also not to use pesticides which kills bees and insects. Pesticide will not only kill bugs they will kill all insects a like. “Cavendish bananas were named after William Cavendish, 6th Duke of Devonshire. Though they were not the first known banana specimens in Europe, in around 1834 Cavendish received a shipment of bananas (from Mauritius) courtesy of the chaplain of Alton Towers (then the seat of the Earls of Shrewsbury).” Source https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavendish_banana https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavendish_banana
- primroot 7y agoOr get people to eat local as much as possible. The only people at risk from being more malnourished due to a scarcity of Cavendish bananas are those whose land has been plagued by the monoculture. And by the way https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/monkeys-banned-from-eating-bananas-at-devon-zoo-9058856.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/monkeys-bann... [Monkeys banned from eating bananas at Devon zoo]. I assume those were all Cavendish bananas.
- mlyle 7y agoThe problem is that banana seeds are large and inedible and trying to eat a banana with seeds is very messy. Hence, triploid and cloning.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- carapace 7y agoCoffee is also having some problems: https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2013/0605/Coffee-blight-in-Central-America-Changing-livelihoods-and-your-cup-of-joe https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2013/0605/Coffee-bl...