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Great games..... I really feel that peak gaming was in 90s/early 2000s. You had C&C, Total Annihilation, Age of Empires, Quake 1/2, Half Life, Pro Evo Soccer

Great games..... I really feel that peak gaming was in 90s/early 2000s. You had C&C, Total Annihilation, Age of Empires, Quake 1/2, Half Life, Pro Evo Soccer, and so many more in the PC side, and probably a SNES or a N64 around. Super Mario (all of them), Golden Eye, Mario Kart, Street Fighter 2, Final Fight and more Online gaming was crude but fun (Age of Empires, Quake, Unreal Tournament, Half Life, had a great online implementation). LAN gaming parties were coming in my dorm. Games had a well defined start, end, and progression that was dependent on your skill. Now games are just a way for you to spend money in loot boxes, dcls, and cosmetics, or 'upgrades' so you can escape the artificial grind. Tutorials everywhere, handholding to the point that destroy any type of mystery or fun of the game..... Or maybe I am just getting old.....

theNJR 7y ago
Sigh. AOE, Quake, and Duke 3D LAN parties were my childhood. Throw in some hot pockets, local mp3 and porn sharing and call it a weekend.
mcphage 7y ago
> Now games are just a way for you to spend money in loot boxes Remember arcades?
- ardit33 7y ago
  Yes, and I still play.... not even remotely comparable... we are talking about games you play at home. In games you give a coin to play in establishment, aka rent a machine for a given time. Pretty clear. Before that you had pinballs, pool halls, and more. Same concept, but everyone was equal and progression was dependent on your skill. With today loot boxes a you pay "for something random" so you can get some kind of desirable upgrade, or advantage, otherwise you will have to grind your way to the game...
blitmap 7y ago
It is absolutely a combination of "the widest audience" and "engagement = money". The part that really jumps out at me is how often I'm trading a real-life grind for a grind in say... Overwatch for loot boxes. It used to be better.
AlunAlun 7y ago
Heh, I have a hunch that the ‘golden age of games’ is, for everyone, when they were 18-24!
- ardit33 7y ago
  I might disagree.... if you were a kid in the 90s, you were player at Peak 2D, (NES,SNES, Arcade, Neo Geo), and early 3D, both in PC and consoles where publishers were experimenting. You had completely new genres of games being invented almost every other year. Today it is the same type of games, just re-hashing of the same content, maybe with more/better graphics. The only most recent completely new type of game is Minecraft.... and walking simulators type of games. (although some one can say that they are just like old time RPGs).
  - tiseno 7y ago
    Here is a list of new types of games that has come about the last couple of years that might be worth checking out if the only one you are aware if is Minecraft (this might sound snarky but I take you at face value and you might actually not have heard of these types of games before). Some of these have characteristics of old games, but often has stuff that was simply not possible 15+ years ago. Sandboxed MMOS (EVE, no mans sky, Elite: Dangerous) MOBA (Dota, HoTs, LoL, Smite) Real MOBAs (WoW Arena, WC3: Warlock, Battlerite) Battle royale games (Apex, PUBG, Fortnite, DayZ, ETF, Battlerite Royale) Simulators (Arma, flight sims, truck driver simulator, which are now SUPER realistic) Online Trading Card Games (Hearthstone, Magic [1]) Rocket League (I dont know any game like it nor what genre it is "sport"?) Fast paced RTS (WarCraft, StarCraft, Total Anihilation, Red Alert) Auto Chess (Autochess, Dota Underlords, Teamfight Tactics) Competitive FPS (Call of Duty, Counter Strike, Rainbow Six Siege, Overwatch) Casual social/arena action games (JackBoxTV, Use your words, Mario party, Overcooked, Duck Game, Gang Beasts, Speedrunners, Stick Fight, Hidden in plain sight [2]) If you are feeling old/and/or out of touch of modern gaming and coming from a perspective from the 90s, at least try these genres out. And of course games in the same genre has cross pollination and are similar in some ways, but some games play very differently, so don't dismiss a genre totally because you have tried only one game! [1] One could argue that these are not a new type of game, but the mechanics in hearthstone is not possible in a physical TCG. [2] Boardgame-ish types of games. Edit: Of course I have left out a TON of games and some are actually considered quite old, these were the ones that came to mind.
puranjay 7y ago
Maybe it's because I've become older, but I feel that games of the 1990s and early 2000s were easier to pick up. There was no need to invest in world building or complex mechanics. You just picked up the game and started playing. Like I tried the latest Need for Speed. It's got this whole artifice about you being a racer and you drive around a city to join races. Back when I played Need for Speed a lot (especially NFS 2, 3 and 4), the games had no such pretention. You just started the game, picked up a mode and started racing. The games never felt compelled to tell you how to feel or think.
- dawnerd 7y ago
  Need for speed used to be wicked fun too. Recently Forza Horizons has scratched that itch but they’ve still tried to shoehorn in a story.
maksimum 7y ago
There were a bunch of (online) games without a well-defined end popular in the late 90s/early 00s too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarCraft:_Brood_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarCraft:_Brood_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asheron%27s_Call https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asheron%27s_Call https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest
- rootw0rm 7y ago
  Dude, Ultima Online
  - holografix 7y ago
    Wonderful wonderful game! Countless hours of fun, my friends and I still talk about specific episodes and PKs that terrorised us.
    - rootw0rm 7y ago
      like Annie on Pacific?
ctrl-j 7y ago
There are games that are focused on being profit-driven to a fault. Pretty much anything from Activision, and most of the stuff produced by EA. But there's plenty of games that match what you describe. Sony has published a solid lineup for the last few years. The dark souls series is a very solid example of modern skill based progression. DLC used to exist - we just used to call them expansions. There's also free to play games that use microtransactions as funding - but they're all either cosmetic or slight quality-of-life boosts that don't have direct gameplay impact (see: warframe and path of exile) And that's not even talking about indies. There's plenty of indie titles that are pretty much 90s games with modern quality of life upgrades. Some quality games that meet or exceed the quality of the 90s era from the last few years (in no particular order): - God of War - Horizon Zero Dawn - Dark souls series (including bloodborne) - Zelda Breath of the Wild - Hyper light drifter - Enter the Gungeon - Spiderman - Rimworld - The Witcher Series There's a ton more.. and there's also a glut of games coming out in the next couple years that also look amazing. The thing that exists today that didn't in the past, is companies exploiting psychology to produce endorphin rushes tied to microtransactions. Companies tying gambling mechanics to gameplay advantage (FIFA and Madden are egregious examples of this).
- dmix 7y ago
  People love “the world is burning” type nostalgia for another time. But there’s never been a better time to be a serious gamer looking for excellent story telling and gameplay. But just like films where you won’t find the auteurs or Criterion Collection at your local theater besides a few exceptions, you have to seek them out and being paying attention (most people who make critiques like this aren’t anywhere near involved in music/films/games/etc like they were when they were kids. But they expect the same ROI. Every booming cultural market pumps out more crap than good stuff, and I assure you the 90a and early 2000s had plenty of awful games.
  - luckydata 7y ago
    First person shooters and 3d open world games, of those we have plenty. If you look for real time strategy then the choices we have right now are nowhere near the quality of what we had 15 years ago. Most modern strategy games are overly complex, take forever to get into and are overwrought in ways that makes them just not enjoyable.
manigandham 7y ago
Part of it is the massive expansion to include more people by making the games and mechanics as basic as possible, but the major driver is the rise of streaming and multiplayer becoming the default and most important mode for games, if not the only option. Strong single-player storytelling and action has been sidelined, and most multiplayer games tend to be the same. Some have unique mechanics and gameplay but they all depend on your team and unless you have a very good group of people to play with, it just ends up feeling bland and repetitive.
qwsxyh 7y ago
> Mario Kart The best Mario Kart came out in 2008, so.
- bgeeek 7y ago
  Really? I bought that and the wheel and I'm not sure it was regarded as the best even in 2008.
  - qwsxyh 7y ago
    MkWii has the best physics, some of the best tracks in the entire series, a thriving community despite being 10 years old and having official support dropped 5 years ago, and is just overall the best game really.
    - generalpf 7y ago
      Snaking broke that game.
      - qwsxyh 7y ago
        MkWii doesn't have snaking.
- asark 7y ago
  Huh? Double Dash came out in 2003.
  - qwsxyh 7y ago
    Double Dash has permenant ice physics and horrible drifting. It's the 2nd worst console game after N64.
    - Tobias42 7y ago
      I don't know if it is just nostalgia, but I have played them all and like the N64 version the best. It is fast-paced, not as cluttered as some of the new ones, and has a good balance between relying on driving skills and the usage of extras.
rcthompson 7y ago
You don't have to buy the games with loot boxes. They still make the other kind as well. If anyone is looking for a game with "a well defined start, end, and progression dependent on your skill", I'd recommend checking out Celeste.
- grawprog 7y ago
  Celeste is great. I'd second that recommendation highly and throw in Hollow Knight as well. I've got almost 100 hours in it and watched less than 5 minutes worth of cutscenes or exposition. It's just pure gameplay and the difficulty gets pretty unreal. There's a ton of other great indies out there with the same, turn it on and play. I'd given on gaming for a while. These new ones have gotten me to enjoy it again.
  - billfruit 7y ago
    In that same category of pure gameplay, I would also add Enter the Gungeon, it is difficult, and Its curve of skill improvement vs playtime is too shallow, I mean, it takes a lot of playtime to get better at it.
cheschire 7y ago
Total Annihilation was so ground breaking when they introduced Boneyards. https://totalannihilation.fandom.com/wiki/Boneyards https://totalannihilation.fandom.com/wiki/Boneyards
nesadi 7y ago
On the other hand, some of the best games I've ever played only came out in the past ten years (Dark Souls, Soma, Tacoma, Outer Wilds, Subnautica, Factorio). I don't feel gaming is worse off now - we have so much variety to choose from. Whatever special interest you have, there's likely something out there for you to play to accommodate your interests. I do agree though, that we've lost some things (while gaining others). Blizzard is no longer putting out the same kinds of games that put them on the map. A lot of valuable IP's that forged the gaming industry in its early years are forgotten or killed off or have some weird mobile/mobile transaction-ridden game to carry the flame. We'll probably never see another Starcraft. The next Diablo will likely be a huge disappointment. We've lost studios like Westwood or Maxis. We're never getting another Silent Hill. Or another Metal Gear. The list goes on. And then you have a company like Nintendo that's pretty much doing exactly what they've always been doing, putting out the same kinds of games that made them so beloved (with many improvements and experiments along the way). Or Sony with its laser focus on great single-player experiences without loot boxes and their crazy large number of first-party and second-party studios.
jl6 7y ago
I feel the 2000s were slim pickings, and the 2010s have picked up again (Portal 2, Dwarf Fortress, GTA V, Factorio). Edit: actually I take it back - there were some great games in the 2000s too (Deus Ex, Half Life 2, Fallout 3, Mario Galaxy, GTA IV, The Sims, Bioshock).
- Sharlin 7y ago
  I feel there was a ”PC gaming winter” roughly 2005–2012. In that period it seems most commercial PC games were sloppy console ports, lacking the depth and storytelling finesse developed in the previous decade. Games were also severely technically handicapped by the limitations of contemporaneous consoles. Crowdfunding made possible projects like Pillars of Eternity and Wasteland 2, starting a renaissance of sorts in game design and a reinvigorated respect for the PC as a gaming platform.
  - billfruit 7y ago
    And possibly the rise and mass adoption of Steam also had a major role in the rejuvenation of PC games.
iforgotpassword 7y ago
While the gaming industry has turned huge and inevitably is much more about money then when it wasn't really taken that seriously by the broad public, thanks to the indie scene there is still great games being released today in any genre and subgenre you can possibly think of. There has definitely been a game released during the last 12 months that you'd totally like if you only knew about it. But the "getting old" part definitely plays a role too. When you're a kid or in your teens everything is just more exciting and impressive to you. A teen today might think the latest Wolfenstein installment is the most awesome thing they've ever seen while to you it's just another first person shooter or doom clone, with somewhat better graphics. Now you could say "but doom was new and groundbreaking", but even if there had been a dozen identical games before, if doom were the first one you played, it wouldn't have mattered. Graphics is another thing I stopped caring about. In the late 90s and early 2000s I was blown away by new graphics demos released every year showing off what the next gen of gfx cards were capable of. Nowadays I'm so out of the loop. Graphics from 5 years ago look no different than today. Although I must admit the latest unreal engine tech demos actually did manage to impress me.
- inetknght 7y ago
  I consider myself also old in this regard, having really enjoyed games like Galaga and Mario Brothers on the NES and with Tiberian Sun as one of my most favorite games of all time. I'd say the most recent time I've been blown away was using Vive's full room VR setup. Many VR games have some very primitive concepts and graphics but it's a very different way of gaming even in multiplayer. There's a lot of room for improvement in graphics, but even _more_ room for improvement of controller hardware designs.
- lordnacho 7y ago
  That's the thing about getting old, you end up seeing enough examples of everything that you generalise and everything fits in your model of the world. Which also means some of the magic is gone, and possibly also your ability to recognise something genuinely new.
  - brian_cunnie 7y ago
landryraccoon 7y ago
> I really feel that peak gaming was in 90s/early 2000s. IMO we're just old. If there was any way this was true, then people born after 1999 would be itching to play games from the 90s and early 2000s, instead of the latest thing from EA and crowd. (They aren't. No teenager in 2019 groks Star Control.) This goes doubly true for "games were easier to learn back then". No, teenagers today are picking up the latest games in 10 minutes just like we used to when we were teens. Games aren't harder now (plenty of 8 bit console games were punishingly hard) we're just OLD. I'm positive if I still had the pliable brain of a 16 year old I'd be hopping on whatever newest, shiniest DRM / DLC goodness was out right now.
- chipperyman573 7y ago
  Most games on the steam top games by player count list are from the 2000s/early 2010s. For example Dota 2, GTA V, Rust, TF2, GMod, etc... were all released before 2013. It's a bit later than what OP was saying but I think it still demonstrates that older games are typically more enjoyable: https://store.steampowered.com/stats/ https://store.steampowered.com/stats/
  - icebraining 7y ago
    Multiplayer games probably follow a bell curve, much like the technology adoption lifecycle[1], peaking a few years after release. Except for GTA, the more single-player games in that list (ARK, FM, Rainbox Six Siege) are all younger. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_adoption_life_cycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_adoption_life_cycle
  - ajmurmann 7y ago
    In addition to a neighbor comment's reference to multiplayer games this also might have to do with some more popular games not being on Steam these days. Fortnite and Overwatch are unbelievably popular and not on Steam.
- wolfgke 7y ago
  > If there was any way this was true, then people born after 1999 would be itching to play games from the 90s and early 2000s, instead of the latest thing from EA and crowd. Not necessarily. Games at that time targeted a quite very different audience than today's games. So people born earlier do not like these modern games and people born after 1999 are not itching to play games from the 90s.
Vesuvium 7y ago
The videogames industry got overcrowded over time. Videogames became more about money as the big names exploited the growth of the sector. There are good titles coming out, although it seems they become fewer in ratio. Most big names push away game designers to favour software engineers with elements of game design. That could have worked 15 years ago, but with the increased competition, the need for proper game design has increased. Finally, the people that made videogames 15 years ago were mostly engineers, but I get the impression they also had a better understanding of game design. Hence that time was the golden era of videogames because it was when the key people in the industry made their careers. Todd Howard (Bethesda) and Jess Schell (Disney/Schell Games) for example were in the line at that time, but now are in management positions. Because game designers where having an hard time in the videogames industry, they turned their attention to other areas: board games. Board games are indeed in a great period now, with many independent makers finding success. So if you want to have again a good time playing games with friends, go for board games.
servercobra 7y ago
This comment does read a lot like when my parents' generation told me about the golden age of music (which differed depending which "golden age" they grew up with). But, oh well, I agree that some of the most fun I had was this games. On the high side, indie games give me some similar fun as when I was a kid, while a lot of AAA games are now disappointing to me.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  Is there a musician performing today who will be widely celebrated in 50 years?
  - nprateem 7y ago
    The first one into a new market gets remembered for it as having defined it. That's all it is. The first ones who got the "pop" sound, or the FPS, etc. right.
jimbob45 7y ago
Let's not kid ourselves. Tomb Raider was just an attempt to sucker everyone into buying a (super hard, let's be real nobody actually finished those games) game for Lara's tits. Multiplatforms were made to maximize profit, not accessibility. Mods were already being released for money (Counter Strike, among others). Although loot boxes are bad, there's no reason to think that execs of the past wouldn't have done the same thing current execs are now doing if they could have.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  Of course execs are as greedy as possible. But results matter too.
- Aeolun 7y ago
  Of course we bought those games for the 4 triangles, at least initially, but it was certainly possible to finish them.
LoSboccacc 7y ago
the issue is that mainstream titles have to recoup massive cost so they're optimized for monetisation. the semi-indie scene is producing gases that are comparable in scope, quality, depth and innovation to the titles of old. sadly it's very hard to discern indie with potential today because the noise is much more and much higher, but titles like factorio, kerbal space program, keeperrl, automation: the car company game, empyrion, stormworks: build and rescue, castle story and many other to list here provide highly polished experiences. I'm an avid indie supporter[1] so I might help navigating the landscape if anyone is interested, just restrict the genre a little so that the scope is focused enough to be relevant and interesting 1 https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197986674427/games/?tab=all https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197986674427/games/...
Keyframe 7y ago
Well, you are old, but I don't think that's the case. Throughout 90s / early 2000s, advancements in computer power and graphics made it possible for game developers to explore beyond simple(r) mechanics of 80's. That's why you see a lot of variety, from back then, in both how games look, behave / mechanics, and even genres than today. Over the years, certain processes were aligned with what people found to be done well, and of course market dynamics dictated some of the genres to be phased out. That's why, today, you see more or less a bunch of 'the same stuff', yet you also get the best of 'the same stuff'. Kind of like with computers from 80's through 90's. There was a large variety of equals. Various processors, whole computers, operating systems, everything... and now it's more or less 'the same stuff' (on desktop).
jjjensen90 7y ago
That era of games really appeals to me too, and the games from then seem to require a lot of patience and are so unforgiving. Also let's not forget the dawn of MMOs, with UO and then the revolutionary EverQuest in '99.
paxys 7y ago
Everyone thinks peak gaming was exactly when they were the right age for video games.
gameswithgo 7y ago
battle royale games are an amazing new genre not really possible to do then.
monster99 7y ago
You're not just getting old. The rise of the internet fucked up gaming because it allowed game companies to control the software and insert all sorts of abusive monetization inside it. The internet allowed game theft by EA, activision and Valve. It began with mmo's in the late 90's to take control of software out of the publics hand. That is why gaming is such a clusterfuck, and why AAA gaming went to shit. High speed internet allowed game companies to take game functionality hostage, dedicated servers and level editors had to be massively scaled back to sell lootboxes and microtransactions. Go loadup any popular mobile game like Final fantasy brave exvious or Fate grand order. Single player games under the mainframe dumb client model. AKA they can now force kids to play games as publishers want because they control the values from their servers. That was their wet dream since the late 90's. The fact that drm, world of warcaft, uo, and Team fortress 2 and League of legends even exist means the average gamer is retarded. To watch so called "hackers" on hackernews fall all overthemselves to give up software ownership and eat drm in windows 10 was a far cry from the nerds of the 90's. We who remember palladium and wanted to keep control over our PC games because we knew the evil empire was coming to steal our PC games to get rid of dedicated servers, level editors, etc. But the masses got internet and their stupid consumer behavior fucked up gaming. All major franchises from the 90's got turned into mainframe - dumb client models. Diablo 2 vs Diablo 3 Tribes vs Tribes ascend Mechwarrior 1-4 vs Mech warrior online The game industry gloats about it's great victory to server lock every new big budget game going forward on businss sites. https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-04-01-making-piracy-and-preowned-games-problems-of-the-past https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-04-01-making-pir... So no mass invasion's of privacy, stealing PC games via splitting the local application into two and selling it to the gullible masses as mmo' and "software as a service" / always online drm. Meant that the money men could now control the game from end to end. Which is why gaming went to shit. The internet radically altered the power between game buyer and game producer. When game companies can literally steal software by merely holding onto part of the software they produce in an internet enabled society, you know you are no longer in kansas anymore toto. The shit the nerds of the 90's feared game true as the dumb masses ate up all the corporate PR to take over PC's and turn them into dumb terminals through slowly boiling the frog over decades and raising a new generation of gamers that don't are or don't know about the golden age of the 90's. It was a golden age for a reason - the incentives were to produce good games, it was a "by gamers, for gamers" era, aka nerds producing games for other nerds. When gaming went mainstream in the 2000's, everything got dumbed down to chimp level. We went from 8 or so weapons in quake to two in Halo 1 as bungie got bought out by microsoft. Most PC developers entered the MMO space or jumped ship to make console games and there was a dry decade in PC gaming until it started back up in early 2008-2009 as a new generation of kids got internet and came online, leauge of legends hit and the most exploitive model became the most successful - take control of the game via mainframe-server, and sell flags to display skins to technology illiterate gamers. To go from something like warcraft 3 to lol and dota is pretty much dystopian. There's no incentive not to make gmaes like the 90's where you got singleplaer campaign+multiplayr + level editors in the AAA space. The microtransactions in the latest Ubisofts games are abhorrent and the non moddability of games like The Crew or For honor speak volumes about the locked down nature of modern AAA space. So yeah gaming did go downhill - the internet allowed game companies to take control of the game software which means they can no infect it with all sorts of anti-fun game design. That was the difference between pre mass internet penetration and after the internet hit the gaming masses. Night and day.
Spooky23 7y ago
100% agree. Online gaming is degraded just like the arcade was, where it’s mostly just a dressed-up casino where the prizes are low value swag.
ekianjo 7y ago
> Great games..... I really feel that peak gaming was in 90s/early 2000s. It's always in the eye of the beholder, but I think a statement that would remain very much true would "the peak of a certain kind of gaming was in the 90s/early 2000s". There is certainly something that changed in the audience and the market as gaming became largely mainstream vs when it was very much still a niche market in the entertainment realm.
track_me_now 7y ago
Except you still have all those great options you mention (I played AoE II earlier tonight, in HD!) plus the excellent indie scene, plus you get all the blockbusters 9-12 months after release for a fraction of full retail. You've also got all those discount console games for PS and xbox (if that's your thing) and Zelda on switch is amazing. Stay away from the pay to play, most sports titles and anything on casual mobile and you've got it better than ever before. And it all runs on a decent windows PC that's less than 7 or 8 years old.
agumonkey 7y ago
Both. Aging makes us "love" new things less. But I also consider this period peak gaming (emphasis on gaming). These days video games are too sophisticated. Your fathers motorcycle is not your bike to fool around with your friends on saturday.
doyoulikeworms 7y ago
I think it's more about age. It's fun to ask people a question like, "What was your golden age for gaming?" That said, I really miss LAN parties and static multiplayer game servers-- we've got the same "golden age" :)
Fnoord 7y ago
I guess you weren't a Blizzard fan as you're omitting Diablo, Diablo 2, Warcraft, Warcraft 2. You're even not mentioning Dune 2, the godfather of RTS. Warcraft was arguably better than C&C. I don't see Wolf3D on your list, nor Doom / Doom 2. Single-player wise these were state of the art. You could also play co-op via LPT1. Also, Quake 2 + Lithium mod was my first and most remembering online FPS. Although team-play wise, it is the HL mod Counter-Strike. Since you're on about games, how about Magic: The Gathering? They practically invented lootboxes. It still exists, but I find with the innovation of Type II / Standard they screwed people into a permanent upgrade cycle.
- hyperman1 7y ago
  s/LPT1/COM1/ ?
  - Fnoord 7y ago
    One friend had a null modem cable, other one a parallel cable. Though they lived together, I was thinking about the latter friend for reasons beyond scope. He made a LAN with two computers. It could've been IEEE 1284, I don't know. Back then, cables were a tad more expensive and difficult to come by. Plus, we had to get it working in MSDOS, IIRC. The advantage of parallel cable was we could pump (other) data over it as well.
thaumasiotes 7y ago
> LAN gaming parties were coming in my dorm. The modern philosophy is that LAN gaming shouldn't be allowed -- all multiplayer must go through the vendor's official central servers. It's awful.
manicdee 7y ago
- Kerbal Space Program - Mass Effect 1–3 - Minecraft - Surviving Mars - Offworld Markets Just a few of my favourites. There are so many bad games out there because there are so many games. Those last two are about base building, one is an open-ended colony simulator, the other is a commerce based RTS with definitive end conditions. Whether you want something to meditate to or something to get your competitive juices running there’s plenty out there to choose from.

theNJR 7y ago

Sigh. AOE, Quake, and Duke 3D LAN parties were my childhood. Throw in some hot pockets, local mp3 and porn sharing and call it a weekend.

mcphage 7y ago

> Now games are just a way for you to spend money in loot boxes Remember arcades?

ardit33 7y ago
Yes, and I still play.... not even remotely comparable... we are talking about games you play at home. In games you give a coin to play in establishment, aka rent a machine for a given time. Pretty clear. Before that you had pinballs, pool halls, and more. Same concept, but everyone was equal and progression was dependent on your skill. With today loot boxes a you pay "for something random" so you can get some kind of desirable upgrade, or advantage, otherwise you will have to grind your way to the game...

blitmap 7y ago

It is absolutely a combination of "the widest audience" and "engagement = money". The part that really jumps out at me is how often I'm trading a real-life grind for a grind in say... Overwatch for loot boxes. It used to be better.

AlunAlun 7y ago

Heh, I have a hunch that the ‘golden age of games’ is, for everyone, when they were 18-24!

ardit33 7y ago
I might disagree.... if you were a kid in the 90s, you were player at Peak 2D, (NES,SNES, Arcade, Neo Geo), and early 3D, both in PC and consoles where publishers were experimenting. You had completely new genres of games being invented almost every other year. Today it is the same type of games, just re-hashing of the same content, maybe with more/better graphics. The only most recent completely new type of game is Minecraft.... and walking simulators type of games. (although some one can say that they are just like old time RPGs).
- tiseno 7y ago
  Here is a list of new types of games that has come about the last couple of years that might be worth checking out if the only one you are aware if is Minecraft (this might sound snarky but I take you at face value and you might actually not have heard of these types of games before). Some of these have characteristics of old games, but often has stuff that was simply not possible 15+ years ago. Sandboxed MMOS (EVE, no mans sky, Elite: Dangerous) MOBA (Dota, HoTs, LoL, Smite) Real MOBAs (WoW Arena, WC3: Warlock, Battlerite) Battle royale games (Apex, PUBG, Fortnite, DayZ, ETF, Battlerite Royale) Simulators (Arma, flight sims, truck driver simulator, which are now SUPER realistic) Online Trading Card Games (Hearthstone, Magic [1]) Rocket League (I dont know any game like it nor what genre it is "sport"?) Fast paced RTS (WarCraft, StarCraft, Total Anihilation, Red Alert) Auto Chess (Autochess, Dota Underlords, Teamfight Tactics) Competitive FPS (Call of Duty, Counter Strike, Rainbow Six Siege, Overwatch) Casual social/arena action games (JackBoxTV, Use your words, Mario party, Overcooked, Duck Game, Gang Beasts, Speedrunners, Stick Fight, Hidden in plain sight [2]) If you are feeling old/and/or out of touch of modern gaming and coming from a perspective from the 90s, at least try these genres out. And of course games in the same genre has cross pollination and are similar in some ways, but some games play very differently, so don't dismiss a genre totally because you have tried only one game! [1] One could argue that these are not a new type of game, but the mechanics in hearthstone is not possible in a physical TCG. [2] Boardgame-ish types of games. Edit: Of course I have left out a TON of games and some are actually considered quite old, these were the ones that came to mind.

puranjay 7y ago

Maybe it's because I've become older, but I feel that games of the 1990s and early 2000s were easier to pick up. There was no need to invest in world building or complex mechanics. You just picked up the game and started playing. Like I tried the latest Need for Speed. It's got this whole artifice about you being a racer and you drive around a city to join races. Back when I played Need for Speed a lot (especially NFS 2, 3 and 4), the games had no such pretention. You just started the game, picked up a mode and started racing. The games never felt compelled to tell you how to feel or think.

dawnerd 7y ago
Need for speed used to be wicked fun too. Recently Forza Horizons has scratched that itch but they’ve still tried to shoehorn in a story.

maksimum 7y ago

There were a bunch of (online) games without a well-defined end popular in the late 90s/early 00s too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarCraft:_Brood_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarCraft:_Brood_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asheron%27s_Call https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asheron%27s_Call https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest

rootw0rm 7y ago
Dude, Ultima Online
- holografix 7y ago
  Wonderful wonderful game! Countless hours of fun, my friends and I still talk about specific episodes and PKs that terrorised us.
  - rootw0rm 7y ago
    like Annie on Pacific?

ctrl-j 7y ago

There are games that are focused on being profit-driven to a fault. Pretty much anything from Activision, and most of the stuff produced by EA. But there's plenty of games that match what you describe. Sony has published a solid lineup for the last few years. The dark souls series is a very solid example of modern skill based progression. DLC used to exist - we just used to call them expansions. There's also free to play games that use microtransactions as funding - but they're all either cosmetic or slight quality-of-life boosts that don't have direct gameplay impact (see: warframe and path of exile) And that's not even talking about indies. There's plenty of indie titles that are pretty much 90s games with modern quality of life upgrades. Some quality games that meet or exceed the quality of the 90s era from the last few years (in no particular order): - God of War - Horizon Zero Dawn - Dark souls series (including bloodborne) - Zelda Breath of the Wild - Hyper light drifter - Enter the Gungeon - Spiderman - Rimworld - The Witcher Series There's a ton more.. and there's also a glut of games coming out in the next couple years that also look amazing. The thing that exists today that didn't in the past, is companies exploiting psychology to produce endorphin rushes tied to microtransactions. Companies tying gambling mechanics to gameplay advantage (FIFA and Madden are egregious examples of this).

dmix 7y ago
People love “the world is burning” type nostalgia for another time. But there’s never been a better time to be a serious gamer looking for excellent story telling and gameplay. But just like films where you won’t find the auteurs or Criterion Collection at your local theater besides a few exceptions, you have to seek them out and being paying attention (most people who make critiques like this aren’t anywhere near involved in music/films/games/etc like they were when they were kids. But they expect the same ROI. Every booming cultural market pumps out more crap than good stuff, and I assure you the 90a and early 2000s had plenty of awful games.
- luckydata 7y ago
  First person shooters and 3d open world games, of those we have plenty. If you look for real time strategy then the choices we have right now are nowhere near the quality of what we had 15 years ago. Most modern strategy games are overly complex, take forever to get into and are overwrought in ways that makes them just not enjoyable.

manigandham 7y ago

Part of it is the massive expansion to include more people by making the games and mechanics as basic as possible, but the major driver is the rise of streaming and multiplayer becoming the default and most important mode for games, if not the only option. Strong single-player storytelling and action has been sidelined, and most multiplayer games tend to be the same. Some have unique mechanics and gameplay but they all depend on your team and unless you have a very good group of people to play with, it just ends up feeling bland and repetitive.

qwsxyh 7y ago

> Mario Kart The best Mario Kart came out in 2008, so.

bgeeek 7y ago
Really? I bought that and the wheel and I'm not sure it was regarded as the best even in 2008.
- qwsxyh 7y ago
  MkWii has the best physics, some of the best tracks in the entire series, a thriving community despite being 10 years old and having official support dropped 5 years ago, and is just overall the best game really.
  - generalpf 7y ago
    Snaking broke that game.
    - qwsxyh 7y ago
      MkWii doesn't have snaking.
asark 7y ago
Huh? Double Dash came out in 2003.
- qwsxyh 7y ago
  Double Dash has permenant ice physics and horrible drifting. It's the 2nd worst console game after N64.
  - Tobias42 7y ago
    I don't know if it is just nostalgia, but I have played them all and like the N64 version the best. It is fast-paced, not as cluttered as some of the new ones, and has a good balance between relying on driving skills and the usage of extras.

rcthompson 7y ago

You don't have to buy the games with loot boxes. They still make the other kind as well. If anyone is looking for a game with "a well defined start, end, and progression dependent on your skill", I'd recommend checking out Celeste.

grawprog 7y ago
Celeste is great. I'd second that recommendation highly and throw in Hollow Knight as well. I've got almost 100 hours in it and watched less than 5 minutes worth of cutscenes or exposition. It's just pure gameplay and the difficulty gets pretty unreal. There's a ton of other great indies out there with the same, turn it on and play. I'd given on gaming for a while. These new ones have gotten me to enjoy it again.
- billfruit 7y ago
  In that same category of pure gameplay, I would also add Enter the Gungeon, it is difficult, and Its curve of skill improvement vs playtime is too shallow, I mean, it takes a lot of playtime to get better at it.

cheschire 7y ago

Total Annihilation was so ground breaking when they introduced Boneyards. https://totalannihilation.fandom.com/wiki/Boneyards https://totalannihilation.fandom.com/wiki/Boneyards

nesadi 7y ago

On the other hand, some of the best games I've ever played only came out in the past ten years (Dark Souls, Soma, Tacoma, Outer Wilds, Subnautica, Factorio). I don't feel gaming is worse off now - we have so much variety to choose from. Whatever special interest you have, there's likely something out there for you to play to accommodate your interests. I do agree though, that we've lost some things (while gaining others). Blizzard is no longer putting out the same kinds of games that put them on the map. A lot of valuable IP's that forged the gaming industry in its early years are forgotten or killed off or have some weird mobile/mobile transaction-ridden game to carry the flame. We'll probably never see another Starcraft. The next Diablo will likely be a huge disappointment. We've lost studios like Westwood or Maxis. We're never getting another Silent Hill. Or another Metal Gear. The list goes on. And then you have a company like Nintendo that's pretty much doing exactly what they've always been doing, putting out the same kinds of games that made them so beloved (with many improvements and experiments along the way). Or Sony with its laser focus on great single-player experiences without loot boxes and their crazy large number of first-party and second-party studios.

jl6 7y ago

I feel the 2000s were slim pickings, and the 2010s have picked up again (Portal 2, Dwarf Fortress, GTA V, Factorio). Edit: actually I take it back - there were some great games in the 2000s too (Deus Ex, Half Life 2, Fallout 3, Mario Galaxy, GTA IV, The Sims, Bioshock).

Sharlin 7y ago
I feel there was a ”PC gaming winter” roughly 2005–2012. In that period it seems most commercial PC games were sloppy console ports, lacking the depth and storytelling finesse developed in the previous decade. Games were also severely technically handicapped by the limitations of contemporaneous consoles. Crowdfunding made possible projects like Pillars of Eternity and Wasteland 2, starting a renaissance of sorts in game design and a reinvigorated respect for the PC as a gaming platform.
- billfruit 7y ago
  And possibly the rise and mass adoption of Steam also had a major role in the rejuvenation of PC games.

iforgotpassword 7y ago

While the gaming industry has turned huge and inevitably is much more about money then when it wasn't really taken that seriously by the broad public, thanks to the indie scene there is still great games being released today in any genre and subgenre you can possibly think of. There has definitely been a game released during the last 12 months that you'd totally like if you only knew about it. But the "getting old" part definitely plays a role too. When you're a kid or in your teens everything is just more exciting and impressive to you. A teen today might think the latest Wolfenstein installment is the most awesome thing they've ever seen while to you it's just another first person shooter or doom clone, with somewhat better graphics. Now you could say "but doom was new and groundbreaking", but even if there had been a dozen identical games before, if doom were the first one you played, it wouldn't have mattered. Graphics is another thing I stopped caring about. In the late 90s and early 2000s I was blown away by new graphics demos released every year showing off what the next gen of gfx cards were capable of. Nowadays I'm so out of the loop. Graphics from 5 years ago look no different than today. Although I must admit the latest unreal engine tech demos actually did manage to impress me.

inetknght 7y ago
I consider myself also old in this regard, having really enjoyed games like Galaga and Mario Brothers on the NES and with Tiberian Sun as one of my most favorite games of all time. I'd say the most recent time I've been blown away was using Vive's full room VR setup. Many VR games have some very primitive concepts and graphics but it's a very different way of gaming even in multiplayer. There's a lot of room for improvement in graphics, but even _more_ room for improvement of controller hardware designs.
lordnacho 7y ago
That's the thing about getting old, you end up seeing enough examples of everything that you generalise and everything fits in your model of the world. Which also means some of the magic is gone, and possibly also your ability to recognise something genuinely new.
- brian_cunnie 7y ago

landryraccoon 7y ago

> I really feel that peak gaming was in 90s/early 2000s. IMO we're just old. If there was any way this was true, then people born after 1999 would be itching to play games from the 90s and early 2000s, instead of the latest thing from EA and crowd. (They aren't. No teenager in 2019 groks Star Control.) This goes doubly true for "games were easier to learn back then". No, teenagers today are picking up the latest games in 10 minutes just like we used to when we were teens. Games aren't harder now (plenty of 8 bit console games were punishingly hard) we're just OLD. I'm positive if I still had the pliable brain of a 16 year old I'd be hopping on whatever newest, shiniest DRM / DLC goodness was out right now.

chipperyman573 7y ago
Most games on the steam top games by player count list are from the 2000s/early 2010s. For example Dota 2, GTA V, Rust, TF2, GMod, etc... were all released before 2013. It's a bit later than what OP was saying but I think it still demonstrates that older games are typically more enjoyable: https://store.steampowered.com/stats/ https://store.steampowered.com/stats/
- icebraining 7y ago
  Multiplayer games probably follow a bell curve, much like the technology adoption lifecycle[1], peaking a few years after release. Except for GTA, the more single-player games in that list (ARK, FM, Rainbox Six Siege) are all younger. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_adoption_life_cycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_adoption_life_cycle
- ajmurmann 7y ago
  In addition to a neighbor comment's reference to multiplayer games this also might have to do with some more popular games not being on Steam these days. Fortnite and Overwatch are unbelievably popular and not on Steam.
wolfgke 7y ago
> If there was any way this was true, then people born after 1999 would be itching to play games from the 90s and early 2000s, instead of the latest thing from EA and crowd. Not necessarily. Games at that time targeted a quite very different audience than today's games. So people born earlier do not like these modern games and people born after 1999 are not itching to play games from the 90s.

Vesuvium 7y ago

The videogames industry got overcrowded over time. Videogames became more about money as the big names exploited the growth of the sector. There are good titles coming out, although it seems they become fewer in ratio. Most big names push away game designers to favour software engineers with elements of game design. That could have worked 15 years ago, but with the increased competition, the need for proper game design has increased. Finally, the people that made videogames 15 years ago were mostly engineers, but I get the impression they also had a better understanding of game design. Hence that time was the golden era of videogames because it was when the key people in the industry made their careers. Todd Howard (Bethesda) and Jess Schell (Disney/Schell Games) for example were in the line at that time, but now are in management positions. Because game designers where having an hard time in the videogames industry, they turned their attention to other areas: board games. Board games are indeed in a great period now, with many independent makers finding success. So if you want to have again a good time playing games with friends, go for board games.

servercobra 7y ago

This comment does read a lot like when my parents' generation told me about the golden age of music (which differed depending which "golden age" they grew up with). But, oh well, I agree that some of the most fun I had was this games. On the high side, indie games give me some similar fun as when I was a kid, while a lot of AAA games are now disappointing to me.

lonelappde 7y ago
Is there a musician performing today who will be widely celebrated in 50 years?
- nprateem 7y ago
  The first one into a new market gets remembered for it as having defined it. That's all it is. The first ones who got the "pop" sound, or the FPS, etc. right.

jimbob45 7y ago

Let's not kid ourselves. Tomb Raider was just an attempt to sucker everyone into buying a (super hard, let's be real nobody actually finished those games) game for Lara's tits. Multiplatforms were made to maximize profit, not accessibility. Mods were already being released for money (Counter Strike, among others). Although loot boxes are bad, there's no reason to think that execs of the past wouldn't have done the same thing current execs are now doing if they could have.

lonelappde 7y ago
Of course execs are as greedy as possible. But results matter too.
Aeolun 7y ago
Of course we bought those games for the 4 triangles, at least initially, but it was certainly possible to finish them.

LoSboccacc 7y ago

the issue is that mainstream titles have to recoup massive cost so they're optimized for monetisation. the semi-indie scene is producing gases that are comparable in scope, quality, depth and innovation to the titles of old. sadly it's very hard to discern indie with potential today because the noise is much more and much higher, but titles like factorio, kerbal space program, keeperrl, automation: the car company game, empyrion, stormworks: build and rescue, castle story and many other to list here provide highly polished experiences. I'm an avid indie supporter[1] so I might help navigating the landscape if anyone is interested, just restrict the genre a little so that the scope is focused enough to be relevant and interesting 1 https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197986674427/games/?tab=all https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197986674427/games/...

Keyframe 7y ago

Well, you are old, but I don't think that's the case. Throughout 90s / early 2000s, advancements in computer power and graphics made it possible for game developers to explore beyond simple(r) mechanics of 80's. That's why you see a lot of variety, from back then, in both how games look, behave / mechanics, and even genres than today. Over the years, certain processes were aligned with what people found to be done well, and of course market dynamics dictated some of the genres to be phased out. That's why, today, you see more or less a bunch of 'the same stuff', yet you also get the best of 'the same stuff'. Kind of like with computers from 80's through 90's. There was a large variety of equals. Various processors, whole computers, operating systems, everything... and now it's more or less 'the same stuff' (on desktop).

jjjensen90 7y ago

That era of games really appeals to me too, and the games from then seem to require a lot of patience and are so unforgiving. Also let's not forget the dawn of MMOs, with UO and then the revolutionary EverQuest in '99.

paxys 7y ago

Everyone thinks peak gaming was exactly when they were the right age for video games.

gameswithgo 7y ago

battle royale games are an amazing new genre not really possible to do then.

monster99 7y ago

You're not just getting old. The rise of the internet fucked up gaming because it allowed game companies to control the software and insert all sorts of abusive monetization inside it. The internet allowed game theft by EA, activision and Valve. It began with mmo's in the late 90's to take control of software out of the publics hand. That is why gaming is such a clusterfuck, and why AAA gaming went to shit. High speed internet allowed game companies to take game functionality hostage, dedicated servers and level editors had to be massively scaled back to sell lootboxes and microtransactions. Go loadup any popular mobile game like Final fantasy brave exvious or Fate grand order. Single player games under the mainframe dumb client model. AKA they can now force kids to play games as publishers want because they control the values from their servers. That was their wet dream since the late 90's. The fact that drm, world of warcaft, uo, and Team fortress 2 and League of legends even exist means the average gamer is retarded. To watch so called "hackers" on hackernews fall all overthemselves to give up software ownership and eat drm in windows 10 was a far cry from the nerds of the 90's. We who remember palladium and wanted to keep control over our PC games because we knew the evil empire was coming to steal our PC games to get rid of dedicated servers, level editors, etc. But the masses got internet and their stupid consumer behavior fucked up gaming. All major franchises from the 90's got turned into mainframe - dumb client models. Diablo 2 vs Diablo 3 Tribes vs Tribes ascend Mechwarrior 1-4 vs Mech warrior online The game industry gloats about it's great victory to server lock every new big budget game going forward on businss sites. https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-04-01-making-piracy-and-preowned-games-problems-of-the-past https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-04-01-making-pir... So no mass invasion's of privacy, stealing PC games via splitting the local application into two and selling it to the gullible masses as mmo' and "software as a service" / always online drm. Meant that the money men could now control the game from end to end. Which is why gaming went to shit. The internet radically altered the power between game buyer and game producer. When game companies can literally steal software by merely holding onto part of the software they produce in an internet enabled society, you know you are no longer in kansas anymore toto. The shit the nerds of the 90's feared game true as the dumb masses ate up all the corporate PR to take over PC's and turn them into dumb terminals through slowly boiling the frog over decades and raising a new generation of gamers that don't are or don't know about the golden age of the 90's. It was a golden age for a reason - the incentives were to produce good games, it was a "by gamers, for gamers" era, aka nerds producing games for other nerds. When gaming went mainstream in the 2000's, everything got dumbed down to chimp level. We went from 8 or so weapons in quake to two in Halo 1 as bungie got bought out by microsoft. Most PC developers entered the MMO space or jumped ship to make console games and there was a dry decade in PC gaming until it started back up in early 2008-2009 as a new generation of kids got internet and came online, leauge of legends hit and the most exploitive model became the most successful - take control of the game via mainframe-server, and sell flags to display skins to technology illiterate gamers. To go from something like warcraft 3 to lol and dota is pretty much dystopian. There's no incentive not to make gmaes like the 90's where you got singleplaer campaign+multiplayr + level editors in the AAA space. The microtransactions in the latest Ubisofts games are abhorrent and the non moddability of games like The Crew or For honor speak volumes about the locked down nature of modern AAA space. So yeah gaming did go downhill - the internet allowed game companies to take control of the game software which means they can no infect it with all sorts of anti-fun game design. That was the difference between pre mass internet penetration and after the internet hit the gaming masses. Night and day.

Spooky23 7y ago

100% agree. Online gaming is degraded just like the arcade was, where it’s mostly just a dressed-up casino where the prizes are low value swag.

ekianjo 7y ago

> Great games..... I really feel that peak gaming was in 90s/early 2000s. It's always in the eye of the beholder, but I think a statement that would remain very much true would "the peak of a certain kind of gaming was in the 90s/early 2000s". There is certainly something that changed in the audience and the market as gaming became largely mainstream vs when it was very much still a niche market in the entertainment realm.

track_me_now 7y ago

Except you still have all those great options you mention (I played AoE II earlier tonight, in HD!) plus the excellent indie scene, plus you get all the blockbusters 9-12 months after release for a fraction of full retail. You've also got all those discount console games for PS and xbox (if that's your thing) and Zelda on switch is amazing. Stay away from the pay to play, most sports titles and anything on casual mobile and you've got it better than ever before. And it all runs on a decent windows PC that's less than 7 or 8 years old.

agumonkey 7y ago

Both. Aging makes us "love" new things less. But I also consider this period peak gaming (emphasis on gaming). These days video games are too sophisticated. Your fathers motorcycle is not your bike to fool around with your friends on saturday.

doyoulikeworms 7y ago

I think it's more about age. It's fun to ask people a question like, "What was your golden age for gaming?" That said, I really miss LAN parties and static multiplayer game servers-- we've got the same "golden age" :)

Fnoord 7y ago

I guess you weren't a Blizzard fan as you're omitting Diablo, Diablo 2, Warcraft, Warcraft 2. You're even not mentioning Dune 2, the godfather of RTS. Warcraft was arguably better than C&C. I don't see Wolf3D on your list, nor Doom / Doom 2. Single-player wise these were state of the art. You could also play co-op via LPT1. Also, Quake 2 + Lithium mod was my first and most remembering online FPS. Although team-play wise, it is the HL mod Counter-Strike. Since you're on about games, how about Magic: The Gathering? They practically invented lootboxes. It still exists, but I find with the innovation of Type II / Standard they screwed people into a permanent upgrade cycle.

hyperman1 7y ago
s/LPT1/COM1/ ?
- Fnoord 7y ago
  One friend had a null modem cable, other one a parallel cable. Though they lived together, I was thinking about the latter friend for reasons beyond scope. He made a LAN with two computers. It could've been IEEE 1284, I don't know. Back then, cables were a tad more expensive and difficult to come by. Plus, we had to get it working in MSDOS, IIRC. The advantage of parallel cable was we could pump (other) data over it as well.

thaumasiotes 7y ago

> LAN gaming parties were coming in my dorm. The modern philosophy is that LAN gaming shouldn't be allowed -- all multiplayer must go through the vendor's official central servers. It's awful.

manicdee 7y ago

- Kerbal Space Program - Mass Effect 1–3 - Minecraft - Surviving Mars - Offworld Markets Just a few of my favourites. There are so many bad games out there because there are so many games. Those last two are about base building, one is an open-ended colony simulator, the other is a commerce based RTS with definitive end conditions. Whether you want something to meditate to or something to get your competitive juices running there’s plenty out there to choose from.