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Jeffrey Epstein: Financier 'found dead in cell' in New York
- aldoushuxley001 7y agoWhy was he not on suicide watch considering he just had a failed suicide attempt? Either that's gross incompetence or something more sinister
- mavdi 7y agoMy understanding is that he was indeed on suicide watch.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- high_derivative 7y agoHe was on suicide watch according to most articles on this. Which makes it more sinister.
- Jabbles 7y agoQuoting the linked article: He was reportedly on suicide watch following an earlier incident.
- ra1n85 7y agoFurious. Massive failure by the justice system to do its job. Epstein, a monster, was allowed to escape justice and take everything he knew with him. This all not to mention the power of those potentially implicated in his sick schemes and their interest in him being conveniently buried with his knowledge. This outcome is bad for all of us.
- DanBC 7y ago"Suicide watch" doesn't have a fixed meaning. People on 15 minute observations can and do die by suicide. If someone is at risk and you think obs are going to help (they don't always help, they can make things worse) you need to have them under full time obs. But even then how close does that need to be? Two staff members within arms reach 24 hours of the day, including during eat, bathing, defecating?
- rolph 7y agohanging only takes ~6 minutes until point of no return. if the neck is dislocated even immediate intervention cant accomplish much for the decedent.
- FireBeyond 7y agoIt's also very difficult to, from "ground level" dislocate the neck thus. It was the "long drop and the sharp stop" in the gallows which caused neck dislocation (or in poor planning, even decapitation).
- rolph 7y agoyes its most likely a gradual loading of the ligature rather than an abrupt drop. one would have to be fairly determined toward fate, and a bit athletic to incur cervical dislocation.
- alkonaut 7y agoI thinking he would have been under some kind of regular watch and in a room with no sharp corners, no cables, no belt, ... It’s going to be really interesting to hear how it happened.
- DanBC 7y agoPeople rip their clothing to form ligatures.
- chewz 7y ago> Inmates on suicide watch are generally placed in a special observation cell, surrounded with windows, with a bolted down bed and no bedclothes. A correction officer — or sometimes a fellow inmate trained to be a “suicide companion” — is typically assigned to sit in an adjacent office and monitor the inmate constantly. > Robert Gangi, an expert on prisons and the former executive director of the Correctional Association of New York, said guards also generally take shoelaces and belts away from people on suicide watch. > “If he’s on suicide watch, it's virtually impossible to kill yourself,” Mr. Gangi said. > To take an inmate off suicide watch a “post-watch report” needs to be completed, which includes an analysis of how the inmate’s circumstances have changed and why that merits removal from the watch. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/10/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-suicide-watch.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/10/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-...
- tyingq 7y agoEver been in a US jail? Gross incompetence is the rule, not the exception.
- bencoder 7y agoHelped by the powerful right up to the end
- 18pfsmt 7y agoIs the death penalty "cruel and unusual" punishment, or helpful? There is no way to humanely force people to tell the public what they know. This doesn't really impact the accusations against him other than preventing people from asking him questions to which he lies as a response. His suicide does not erase the evidence, nor witnesses and accusers.
- bencoder 7y agoIt just seems like he must have had help, somehow, in order to kill himself. Regardless of his or his assistant's motivation.
- sadmann1 7y agoThis is totally not suspicious
- febeling 7y agoAgreed. He has motive for suicide, too, though.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- mynameishere 7y agoAnd the motive would be...he swore a blood oath to commit suicide once he was caught. It was either that or an ordinary political murder. The idea that this guy killed himself out of despair or whatever is an unbelievable laugh. He was psychologically a reptile.
- 0815test 7y agoI don't think we can know this for sure. He was definitely a sex predator, quite possibly a sociopath, but to call him a psychopath with a 'Reptilian' emotional structure seems like a step too far
- friedxenon 7y agoThe absolute pedantry on this site.
- pixelperfect 7y agoYes, but he was already on suicide watch. I would be interested in seeing statistics on how often prisoners succeed in committing suicide while on suicide watch.
- DanBC 7y agoPage 7 onwards, this is about patients in English mental health hospitals though: https://www.merseycare.nhs.uk/media/4267/simonfinallitrev.pdf https://www.merseycare.nhs.uk/media/4267/simonfinallitrev.pd...
- sushikokk 7y agohttps://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/rule-of-law/when-will-epstein-be-found-dead-before-or-after-a-deal/ https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/rule-o... Predicted by Martin Armstrong
- mavdi 7y agoDidn’t take much analysis to predict it.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- eitland 7y agoOuch. Not saying this should be taken without a grain of salt but I think they argue their point somewhat well.
- WaltPurvis 7y agoLiterally thousands of people predicted this. I fully expected it to happen, as did every person I talked to about this case.
- gurkendoktor 7y agoI agree that this was predictable. Which raises the question, could outside observers (e.g. journalists, victims) have prevented this somehow by individually funding more staff to have him observed 24/7?
- dickbutt69 7y agoyou damn well know he didn't kill himself
- mc32 7y agoThis sounds too convenient. If this was a suicide and not anything more sinister, this is gross negligence by prison authorities. It was their solemn duty and responsibility to see this person face trial. This will only inflame conspiracy theory minded people to believe there is a vast conspiracy by the powerful to protect themselves. This is depressing. I’m yet hopeful evidence will be used to bring guilty parties to justice. This wasn’t just mr Epstein.
- wtknn 7y ago>This will only inflame conspiracy theory minded people to believe there is a vast conspiracy by the powerful to protect themselves. How is that a conspiracy?
- mc32 7y agoWell people in that sphere were already predicting he’d “commit” suicide to avoid getting powerful people ensnared.
- wtknn 7y agoWhat I mean is that I don't think that's a conspiracy, it's reasonable to think that in the world elites they look after each other
- malloci 7y agoThat’s the very definition of conspiracy: “a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.”
- calibas 7y agoIf you believe that when the elite "look after each other" they abuse their power in illegal and unethical ways, then technically you're a "conspiracy theorist" along with the vast majority of the population. Edit: And the story has been removed from the HN front page, despite being one of the most popular...
- gwicks56 7y agoMost conspiracy theories are obviously bullshit.....
- turk73 7y agoExcept that too many items relegated to the conspiracy heap have proven to not have been in recent months. You can't just look away. Your life depends on it. Hey, I just want to live my simple life and move on, too. But doing so means that the bad people win and if good people do nothing, it's our fault.
- kgwxd 7y agoThis article doesn't ask, let alone answer, the question in the HN title.
- MobileVet 7y agoTrue, sorry. Having no legal background I was genuinely curious what happens next. Does the state drop everything? Are the materials made available for other cases?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- thallium205 7y agoSuicided.
- glbrew 7y agoProbably not suicided in the direct sense. Probably, "we aren't going to walk by your cell for the next hour, if you're still around rich and powerful people will make you wish you had taken your life."
- buttcoinslol 7y agoDoes anyone know the going rate for a prison murder in NY? Through the guards, not the other inmates.
- tyingq 7y agoI imagine the stakes are high enough here that the "going rate" is irrelevant. Millions would be a pittance.
- s9w 7y agoThis makes me so angry. Such an important case, so much on the line. And then this. And if you question the official narrative of "suicide", you will probably soon be labeled a conspiracy theorist. Oh an just by the way, this news broke first on 4chan (thread 222518349). That just on the matter of what the value of these sites are. edit: and already there are [dead] comments who question this
- buttcoinslol 7y agoHe died the way he lived: with people looking the other way.
- sfthrower89 7y agoYou won the internet with this quote.
- belltaco 7y agoThe problem, in my experience, is that for one legit fact usually there is a lot of actual fake news thrown in, along with context free facts, in those communities. This causes a lot of people believe false things and keep repeating it to others. A form of brainwashing. Also people who assume someone's guilt and then work backwards towards showing it, while ignoring other signs.
- Fjolsvith 7y agoThis is the way I would have explained the main stream media.
- captncraig 7y agoThe suicide narrative is perfectly reasonable. The fact that he was on suicide watch already is what raises questions of corruption and coverups.
- kingofpandora 7y agoWhy would you doubt suicide?
- 13of40 7y agoIt's an interesting question whether a person in his position has a right to commit suicide.
- hyperdunc 7y agoI don't think suicidal people much care about the legal or moral judgements of others. Unless you're talking about removing all means of suicide and forcefully keeping people alive.
- DanBC 7y ago> I don't think suicidal people much care about the legal or moral judgements of others. This is untrue. From what we can tell suicidal people care deeply about what other people think.
- reitzensteinm 7y agoDo you mean more deeply than the average person?
- Supermancho 7y agoMorally and legally? From what we can tell suicidal individuals often care "what other people think" in the vein of social acceptability. He ran with a crowd that flaunted a disregard for legality and moral compunction. In this case, I would not believe his suicidal attempt (not attempts) had any consideration for moral or legal ramification.
- lonelappde 7y agoWhich of his two attempts are you denying?
- liability 7y agoNo, not really, that doesn't seem like an interesting question at all. Can you convince me otherwise? It seems obvious to me that while a right to commit suicide might exist typically, somebody imprisoned is obviously not entitled to it. We restrict many rights when we imprison people, and I see no reason why the 'right to commit suicide' should not be one of them. Allowing such a man to kill himself denies his victims, some of whom may yet be unidentified, to opportunity to resolve the matter in a satisfactory way.
- aiscapehumanity 7y agoNow we may not find out the further extent of his rings, the clients, etc.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- sarcasmOrTears 7y agoWow, what's up with people who can say a lot about the Clintz and the deep state dying of suicide all the time. Funny americans
- not_a_moth 7y agoThis happened hours after the latest tranche of documents were made public, documents that named names. Unfortunately for this community, one of our MIT heros was on that list. Don't even know what to say.
- 4ad 7y agoWho was that MIT hero? Do you have a source? Thanks.
- JanSt 7y agoMarvin Minsky https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/9/20798900/marvin-minsky-jeffrey-epstein-sex-trafficking-island-court-records-unsealed https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/9/20798900/marvin-minsky-jef...
- 4ad 7y agoThanks!
- whymauri 7y agoliterally heartbreaking
- primroot 7y agoHeartbreaking, but at this point it does not really surprise that people of highly regarded intellect and achievement indulge in such horrible practices while most people around them turn a blind eye. On the other hand we should be wondering if our black and white view of the subject and all the rhetoric about "monsters" only helps promote silence. I believe humanizing the evildoers keeps the rest of humans aware that they too can be evildoers and perhaps backtrack and speak out more easily when they are on the fence. Edit: Added "and perhaps ..." at the end.
- lobotryas 7y agoIt’s only an accusation. It will be up to the justice system to determine if it holds any water (innocent unless..., right?). Terrible for Marvin’s reputation though.
- sysbin 7y agoMust be nice to be so wealthy & connected that when facing life in prison, you don’t have to worry about it and because death will shortly come. Epstein had no other choice if you think about his lifestyle and what he was against. Another case of how death is needed as a humane alternative instead of lifelong punishment in a prison cell.
- chimen 7y agoJust one word comes to mind: "convenient"
- tyingq 7y agoOy. Certainly they knew this was a strong possibility, and a high profile case. I'm not prone to tin foil hattery, but this smells bad.
- maxaf 7y agoMonsters can occur anywhere. What makes a real difference is a community’s capacity for looking the other way when an individual sheds their personhood in the perpetration of heinous acts. Look at religious organizations (Catholic Church, Orthodox Jews in Brooklyn, ...) and in the sports world (USA Gymnastics) and in financial/political circles. Now more than ever, if you see something - say something. No matter how esteemed a person may be within their field of activity, monstrous acts demand the swiftest of retribution.
- futureastronaut 7y ago> if you see something - say something. Please know that you've been brainwashed into thinking this way. You're even repeating the mantra verbatim. No, I will not willingly become a part of the surveillance apparatus. There is no justification for that degree of vigilance in peaceful times. Edit: Flagged into the void, it's an HN thought crime! Have a good weekend all!
- maxaf 7y agoBut you are willingly an enabler of child molesters. Gotcha.
- futureastronaut 7y agoGood point, I hadn't even thought of the children.
- Proven 7y agoBill Clinton: "Whew, that was close!"
- xwdv 7y agoIf you were in his position though why not just kill yourself off? At 66 there’s not much life left to live and what’s left is going to be pretty shitty anyway behind bars.
- vnchr 7y agoIf I was his attorney, I would have advised he negotiate for a lighter sentence in exchange for cooperation around bringing others to justice. Standard practice. He could have gotten off with a light sentence and brought many others to justice. He’s literally done that before.
- choko 7y agoAt his age, even a lighter sentence would likely be a life sentence. I think he knew that, and seeing the rest of his life would be court cases and jail, took the easy way out. Assuming this was in fact suicide, he made a logical choice.
- goalieca 7y agoIt sounds like trump was involved in at least one instance. I don’t think any lawyer would advise against flipping on that turd sandwich while Moscow mitch is running the senate.
- whamlastxmas 7y agoThere's zero evidence of this.
- sangnoir 7y agohttps://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/07/women-sent-mar-a-lago-vip-calendar-girl-party-trump-epstein.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/07/women-sent-mar-a...
- JKCalhoun 7y agoCertainly testimony anyway: https://www.snopes.com/news/2016/06/23/donald-trump-rape-lawsuit/ https://www.snopes.com/news/2016/06/23/donald-trump-rape-law...
- ada1981 7y agoMy default perspective on this is that he was an intelligence asset tasked with blackmailing the worlds most powerful people.
- kurthr 7y agoBecause a well known creep with a $B doesn't already explain it? Instead we postulate an extra hundred horrible people all keeping a terrible secret... that also have terrible OpSec so they pay people off all the time. Or the "underage girls" were actually fembots designed in an underground lair by radio controlled sharks?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- ada1981 7y agoThis perspective was reached after a discussion with a top adviser of Trump, Clinton, Obama and other world leaders.
- ada1981 7y agoIts very HN to get downvoted for sharing a perspective and how one arrived at it. Acosta said the reason he didn’t give him a harsher sentence back in 2007 was because he “belonged to intelligence”. >> He’d cut the non-prosecution deal with one of Epstein’s attorneys because he had “been told” to back off, that Epstein was above his pay grade. “I was told Epstein ‘belonged to intelligence’ and to leave it alone,” he told his interviewers in the Trump transition, who evidently thought that was a sufficient answer and went ahead and hired Acosta. << https://observer.com/2019/07/jeffrey-epstein-spy-intelligence-work/ https://observer.com/2019/07/jeffrey-epstein-spy-intelligenc...
- ffff8888 7y agoFunny how you got downvoted even though this is correct. Nobody wants to face the possibility some of this might be true, it's too much to handle
- alkonaut 7y agoWow. I don’t think I have seen a situation before where Occam’s razor doesn’t help writing off the conspiracy. It seems harder in this case to believe someone in a jail cell on suicide watch kills themselves than to believe that it was arranged (that is, at least “allowed”). It’s suspiciously sloppy.
- DanBC 7y agoPeople "on suicide watch" die all the time. It's not super rare.
- hume77 7y agoNeither is corruption.
- brador 7y agoName two.
- DanBC 7y agohttps://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/bjpsych-bulletin/article/against-the-stream-intermittent-nurse-observations-of-inpatients-at-night-serve-no-purpose-and-cause-sleep-deprivation/BF2CD76D8F8970581ED48C7594E9A3C4# https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/bjpsych-bulletin/art... > Suicides between 23.00 h and 07.00 h are rare, and these overwhelmingly occur under intermittent observations. Such observation is purely a defensive intervention to document that a patient is safe at a particular time, as there is no engagement. I work with anonymised data. If you want actual names I'm going to have to trawl through coroner's reports. Or you could have a look at this, which says about 18 patients per year in the UK: https://documents.manchester.ac.uk/display.aspx?DocID=37570 https://documents.manchester.ac.uk/display.aspx?DocID=37570
- brador 7y agoThe UK and US have very different prison systems and prison protocols. I don't think their numbers can be compared. Additionally, Epstein was under suicide watch. Which should have made suicide practically impossible without outside intervention. Given the money and power at play here, murder made to look like a suicide is a very real possibility.
- Millennium 7y agoWhat a waste. May none mourn this creature's passing, but his particular case represented too many valuable opportunities for him to be allowed to die before trial. Whoever allowed enough of a lapse in his suicide watch that the concept of him being "found" at all even makes sense should be fired and sued for gross malfeasance.
- willis936 7y agoEven then they would only be getting another little guy, and not the malicious party.
- Millennium 7y agoTrue, but honestly, with so many people clearly after him, I'm not sure we can assume any of them got him. His psyche had clearly been cracking for many weeks now: I got as much sadistic pleasure as anyone else out of watching him basically flat-out break down and beg the judge for a chance to flee. We already know he'd tried to kill himself once before any of his long list of enemies could get their hands on him. If he was indeed "found dead", then yeah, it's fun to joke that he was clearly hanged 37 times by the CIA, the Clintons, Hollywood, MI6, MIT, the Russians, Trump, and at least two alien species, but I don't think we can discount the possibility that he simply siezed on the next opportunity to beat any of them to the punch. He should have gotten that horrible 24-hour naked suicide watch thing that Manning got, all the way until trial. Certainly he demonstrated better need for it.
- moltensodium 7y agoCan we just shut down the Department of Corrections? They are, at best, massively incompetent and negligent, and at worst, massively corrupt and negligent.
- tyingq 7y agoSadly, most jails and prisons in the US are state or city controlled, and wildly worse than Federal facilities. This happened in one of the "better" places.
- frozesodium 7y agoSo just let all the inmates out into the streets, not because they do absolutely nothing, but because they aren't perfect according to your standards. A stop the world rewrite, HN style, right? Have you ever seen documentaries of prisons in South American countries? Peru has some truly apocalyptic examples of prisons that are just walled yards with dilapidated shelters and no guards. Well, maybe a maximum of watch towers manned with snipers... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvu575hiOOc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvu575hiOOc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peruvian_prison_massacres https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peruvian_prison_massacres In these prisons they just drop raw ingredients for food that the gates to the yard, and transfer them to the inmates' possession. On occasion there are incidents that require communication or the transfer of individuals, and they treat it like handling hostages. So, it's not like your suggestion isn't in use. Consider the shape it takes, when directly applied to real world scenarios.
- greggyb 7y agoYour comment was dead. I vouched for it, because I think the point you're making is a valid one. I'll just note that you come across very combative. HN is intended to be an environment of thoughtful and substantive discussion. I would recommend that you peruse the guidelines[0] for discussion. Some specific feedback on what I interpret as combative, and what I expect led to the killing downvotes: The first paragraph is very dismissive and responds to your assumption of the intent of the parent, rather than something they said. I would suggest a clarifying question to understand what shape they expect their suggestion to take, rather than assume a strawman. The second paragraph is disparaging and suggests that you consider the parent to be ignorant. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- notathing 7y agoDoes this mean that the case will be immediately dropped since he was the only accused?
- nradov 7y agoOnly accused so far. Hopefully other indictments will be coming. The civil suits will continue against Epstein's estate.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- atemerev 7y agoEpstein’s case shows why all those “Pizzagate” and other similar conspiracy theories seemed believable, no matter if they were fake. The current political crisis is the crisis of trust.
- cannedslime 7y agoThe instagram accounts of James Alefantis and associates was more than enough to make it believable...
- krapp 7y agoI want to reply to you before your comment probably gets flagged. That "political crisis of trust" is not entirely organic, and mentioning Pizzagate is an example of why that shouldn't be taken at face value. Pizzagate wasn't just a meme, it was an orchestrated attempt to poison the well of support for Hillary Clinton and the Democratic campaign. People in this very thread are still trying to push a connection between Epstein, Pizzagate and the Clintons. I mention this because whenever this "crisis of trust" is brought up, inevitably the blame for it is placed either entirely on "the left," "the (left-wing) media establishment" or (probably leftist) politicians... in other words, its scope and nature is almost always framed in a way that benefits a specific political narrative.
- atemerev 7y agoThat was my point. The Russians, or whoever was behind that particular operation, chose this narrative over many other options, exactly because it was believable. Any real controversy will be amplified, inflated and exploited by foreign interests these days.
- anonu 7y agoHow does a guy on suicide watch kill himself? This is a massive failure of Justice.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- cmurf 7y agoRight. It is proof of corruption and incompetency. He was in the custody of the government. This damages trust in the system, but also the ideology of it, as people already express that this outcome is good. Those people don't care about evidence, witnesses, arguments, and now he can't directly name co-conspirators and accomplices. Someone has bought their idea of justice with death.
- fencepost 7y ago'suicide watch' generally means that someone checks your cell more frequently looking for signs that you're working on a way to kill yourself, not that you're constantly monitored. That's expensive.
- ghufran_syed 7y agoSome relevant into: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_watch https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_watch I was surprised to learn that it's often periodic, not continuous. There is probably one guard on duty at most for a given cell, and when they go use the rest-room, there may be no-one watching
- DanBC 7y ago"Suicide watch" covers a range of activity. Someone may be getting a visual check once an hour, once every 30 minutes, or once every 15 minutes. That may be as simple as looking through a hatch / peephole to see if the person isn't obviously ligatured, or it may include calling to the person and hearing a response. There's not much evidence that 15 minute observations work, and some evidence they cause harm. If someone's risk is high enough for them to be on observations they probably need to be on continuous observations. Continuous observations are tricky. Imagine another person being with you 24 hours of the day, watching you while you eat, bathe, defecate. We want to avoid them if possible because it doesn't build the patient's / prisoner's safety. It keeps them safe for those few days, but it may significantly increase their risk afterwards. And this is if the observations actually happen. Sometimes staff lie. https://twitter.com/KirstenSjovoll/status/1067382479336742912?s=20 https://twitter.com/KirstenSjovoll/status/106738247933674291... 15 minute obs disturb sleep and don't work: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/bjpsych-bulletin/article/against-the-stream-intermittent-nurse-observations-of-inpatients-at-night-serve-no-purpose-and-cause-sleep-deprivation/BF2CD76D8F8970581ED48C7594E9A3C4#.XGPGNer5dXM.twitter https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/bjpsych-bulletin/art...
- joshgel 7y agoParaphrase from someone I saw on Twitter (can't find now): Most people have already jumped to the conclusion that he was murdered. That's child's play for conspiracy theorists. The real conspiracy theory is he faked his death!
- faissaloo 7y agoBoth are fairly likely, but one is easier to pull off than the other.
- Roboprog 7y agoClassic. Thanks for the laugh, even if it’s HHOS.
- rurban 7y agoThe current theory is that they faked his death, they switched someone with him, who will get cremated very soon. The NY Post photo of him showed a different guy, and the meds looked also very suspicious.
- jamesdmiller 7y agoHow common is it for a federal inmate on suicide watch to commit suicide? What's the Bayesian prior?
- cannedslime 7y agoWhat a wierd header to use for this story. What about "Jeffrey Epstein: Suspected child trafficker 'found dead in cell' in New York"
- sfthrower89 7y agoTypical rich coward. He should be forced to account for his sins in general population at Riker's, he should not have been allowed to do this.
- rdtsc 7y agoIf he was suicided, it was very well done, and a message sent to everyone who is involved. The message is "if you betray us, we will find and kill you even while you are on suicide watch in jail". Epstein just didn't seem like a guy who would have a guilty conscience and decide he couldn't handle all any more. I looked a bit into his case, mainly prompted by articles like these: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20576530 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20576530 There made the point of connecting Brin to Epstein and other SV tech people, but then Clinton didn't show up to his dinner party once. Hmm. It seems to me like there is a deeper connection to the Clintons since they are going out of their way to distance his from Epstein with such awkward articles. I guess, maybe those who feel brave enough should see if the prison warden or one of the guards on duty ends up getting some scholarships or trust funds for their children. Or one of them suddenly pays off a large chunk of their mortgage.
- 0xcde4c3db 7y ago> Epstein just didn't seem like a guy who would have a guilty conscience and decide he couldn't handle all any more. He did seem to me like a guy who would take the prospect of a life sentence very badly, though. Based on recent reporting, he seemingly believed that he was going to usher in a new stage of human development through a combination of spreading his own DNA (i.e. impregnating dozens of women) and funding research into genetic engineering, AI, and maybe even ESP. The near-certainty of recent events dooming that project could have been a fatal blow to his ego.
- faissaloo 7y agoIt may be a good idea to watch out for cops and guards from that prison suddenly 'buying businesses', making other large and successful investments, receiving expensive gifts and/or gaining large amounts of wealth. My current theory is that Epstein had a bounty on his head and was killed by a cop or guard, it's often case that prison 'suicides' are in fact covers for police brutality gone too far, so I think this is the most likely scenario.
- mieseratte 7y ago> it's often case that prison 'suicides' are in fact covers for police brutality gone too far How often?
- faissaloo 7y agoI didn't give a number because I don't have one.
- mieseratte 7y agoSo how do you know it’s a common occurrence?
- faissaloo 7y agoI assume it is because it's been the case every time I've read an article on police coverups of prison deaths.
- mieseratte 7y ago> I assume it is because it's been the case every time I've read an article on police coverups of prison deaths. "Every time I read an article on bagels it's about bagels!" I'm asking how common is cover-up in relation to prison-suicide, not if it occurs at all.
- mayankkaizen 7y ago
- wtknn 7y agoFlagrant antisemitism in this thread ... I was expecting better of this " FORUM "
- fencepost 7y agoI was expecting to see conspiracy theories due to the assorted powerful and wealthy people Epstein has been linked with, but really think about it. He was a wealthy man who lived a pampered lifestyle and had largely escaped consequences for his actions in the past but was unlikely to do so in this case. He was looking at spending the rest of his life not just in prison but as something of a pariah in prison (wealthy, privileged, child abuser). He'd attempted suicide previously and if that was an attempt on his life he had ample opportunity to say so. As far as the suicide watch, sure he was high profile but he was in jail awaiting trial and there are probably plenty of people put on suicide watch. The jail doesn't have the resources to monitor everyone 24/7, and frankly regular checks are probably plenty to catch or prevent most attempts.
- cjbprime 7y agoHanging yourself takes material and a room where you can tie it up. Suicide watch is supposed to involve access to neither. That's a more important component than someone watching you occasionally.
- quxbar 7y agoThere are strict regulations around jail suicide watch, somebody must be observing at all times: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/552.42 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/552.42 Seems pretty inexplicable to me how he could outsmart seasoned professionals explicitly tasked with preventing his suicide.
- einpoklum 7y agoSo, you're saying that there is no suicide watch really, even for the blatantly violently suicidal who have just made a suicide attempt? Remember - cells have video cameras, or at least - certainly suicide watch cells do, and people glance at these camera, you would think, every few minutes. Was Epstein the fastest noose-maker-and-hanger in the world?
- willis936 7y agoThis "suicide" is as believable as a "Russian reporter falling on a knife 26 times".
- harambae 7y agohttps://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Moscow%20Suicide https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Moscow%20Sui...
- koralewski 7y agoSomehow 4chan knew it before media reported it: https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/222518349/ https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/222518349/
- MobileVet 7y agoMaybe because they didn’t need to corroborate the story first.
- thatoneuser 7y agoI have a hard time believing corroborating evidence before publishing is what most news entities do when the news is juicy. There are way too many false news stories to come out.
- rolph 7y agocops and prison guards are /b/ros and anons too. we even had a revelation regarding a certain closed FB group that was popular with certain CBP members, it was very much in the spirit of 4chan and 8chan/pol/
- gooseus 7y agoA lot of people talking about how hard it would be for him to kill himself and conspiracy stuff, but if there is a conspiracy then I think it's just as likely that Epstein could use his immense resources and connections to make sure that someone was looking the other way when he attempted. It certainly could be a murder, but I'm not quite as convinced as other people seem... I'm sure it's very convenient for lots of his ghoulish friends, but it also makes a lot of sense that he would do anything necessary to get out of facing his crimes and the surrounding media circus.
- ASalazarMX 7y ago> Epstein could use his immense resources and connections to make sure that someone was looking the other way when he attempted. If we're entering conspiracy theory territory, why couldn't Epstein use said resources and connections to find a lookalike/prop artist, buy people and fake his own suicide?
- breatheoften 7y agoIt’s not actually a conspiracy theory to suggest that — all that’s required is ordinary corruption.
- ASalazarMX 7y agoAnother possibility that doesn't require a conspiracy theory: Epstein's death is fake but blatantly obvious because he agreed to be a protected witness.
- Lambdanaut 7y agoThat's also a conspiracy theory... A conspiracy theory is just a theory that a group is conspiring without the knowledge of others. In this case, the conspiring group is the one faking the death.
- ASalazarMX 7y ago
- turk73 7y agoHere's your choices: 1) Killed by cleaners doing the bidding of the elite to protect them and cover up their misdeeds. If so, the reach of the mighty is total and that would explain why so many politicians and public figures are scared to commit to changing anything and why police detectives commit suicide mysteriously and why so many public officials "fall in line" isn't just to keep the dental plan but to stay alive. 2) Committed suicide because he was either loyal to a foreign intelligence agency or to whoever is on the other side of the people he was helping blackmail. A disciplined foreign agent? Seems unlikely. Maybe more of a rogue agent or someone who "left the reservation" as they say. Usually those types get cleaned up before they can do much damage, but suppose he was protected? 3) It is entirely possible that he entered a witness protection program of some high-level variety. I think this is less likely since those types of things usually happen after the trial and this was his own trial but the evidence entered into the record would likely have implicated many public figures and well known people. I would venture as far as saying 99% of those people would be Democrats. Sorry to make it partisan, fwiw GOP establishment people are just as crooked, but they accept bribes. 3a) Like the allegations surrounding Ken Lay, maybe he had enough money to create his own escape? It would be "allowed" the way it was "allowed" that El Chapo escaped from prison in Mexico. Bribery, deals, etc. 4) Facing the prospect of remaining behind bars for the rest of his life (10-15 more years?) he took the coward's way out as did so many evildoers before him. Recall that he hobnobbed with the fanciest and most fast moving people in the world and to be brought low like this is impossibly damaging to that kind of personality. It's also possible, however unlikely, that his conscience finally caught up to him. He certainly did abuse a lot of young women. What have I missed? I'm enthralled but also disgusted with what is going on these days. In the span of just one week we've seen 8chan taken down, which, even if you hated that place, you have to admit was a major blow to actual freedom of speech on the Internet. Someone used influence and corporate preference to do what governments couldn't do, which is shut up a vocal minority asking real questions. We can't even have the barest, most meager free speech, not really. Yes, that site was full of antisemitism salted with kiddie porn, but I suspect that stuff was spammed there by agents provocateur in order to chase away the curious. It was just too constant a thing, as was all the astrological horseshit and other attendant, easily debunked nonsense. How better to marginalize dangerous minds than to apply the "child porn" label to them? There is no better way! Wait until "Red Flag" laws get weaponized. So Epstein is dead or won't be heard from again, at least. Assange is next. What after? The entire Western world seems to be sleep-walking right into totalitarianism. When we lose the rule of law or when there is two sets of policies for the elite and for the "rest of us" or for the "party loyal" that portends the next wave which is violence. It is entirely clear that violence is what is sought, too. They aren't even pretending to care what moderate people think anymore or who ends up being harmed, as long as power keeps concentrating.
- welljustsaying 7y agoIt is possible that Jeffrey Epstein was faking his own death. He could buy the ortopcy as he paid others to do things for. Are you sure the dead body is the real Jeffrey Epstein? Or he may be already out from his cell as a new face man with the other identity? This is new York cell.
- heymijo 7y agoThese headlines... "Financier" Everything I have read since this came out states no one has any idea how/where Epstein made his money. And yet, the headlines read "Financier." Not convicted criminal. Suspected sex trafficker, rapist, pedophile, or anything of that nature. Everything about Epstein and this case shows the insane power imbalance between those at the top of our society and everyone else.
- sangnoir 7y agoIn the press, the alleged victims were "young women" - not "minors" or "underaged". The difference in reporting is amazing to behold.
- grandridge 7y agoThere is a term for that.
- welljustsaying 7y agoAre you sure he was really killed himself. What if that dead body was not Jeffrey Epstein himself. What if the real Jeffrey Epstein was already been transferred out as a free man from the new York city cell, in an other face, with a new identity? This is new York city, money can made any impossible becomes possible..... Just saying, it needs more transparency to the public before anyone can believe it.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- welljustsaying 7y agoNew York has lots of make up experts, fake identities, have a brain like Jeffrey Epstein, money plus all the well known people were or are surrounding him, with the gold he has, he could have gotten the whole village working for him. He killed himself ???!??? It has to be more transparent evidence to show to the public to buy this...in addition, either way, it is still so not fair to the victims. It was just seemingly way too easy for him to kill himself. What type of the guards of the New York cell had, who hired them. It seems like a joke in kids TV show......!
- ackfoo 7y agoWe sleepwalk through our foolish lives. Our stupidity allows awful people to seize and hold on to wealth and power. Anyone with a brain would see that allowing something like the royal family to exist is a propagation of the abhorrent notion that some people are born better than others. Prince Andrew goes palling around with a convicted paedophile and we are far too stupid to see that it propagates a system where those born to privilege and with connections to wealth and power can do anything they want. We don't just let them get away with it; we idolize them for it. We are simply fools.
- AndrewBissell 7y ago"Epstein will be 'suicided' in prison before he talks" went from "conspiracy theory" to fact in a matter of weeks. When a certain mindset or perspective is able to see that clearly around the bend, it's time to start considering that it has some real explanatory power. Although this feels less like a conspiracy than an open demonstration of power. "Yes, we run everything and we're completely above the law to the point we don't even need to hide it anymore. What are you gonna do about it?"
- einpoklum 7y agoNYT reports Epstein was taken off suicide watch, and that on suicide watch, he would not have had something to easily hang himself with, plus, he would likely have had a cell-mate to keep him out of trouble. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/10/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-suicide-watch.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/10/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-... So, yup, definitely fishy for him to be taken off suicide watch.
- hnsocks 7y ago"financier" ?? Lmaof really. Are we too scared to call him and his associates what they really are ? HN time to shadow ban me.
- kshacker 7y agoJokes from Reddit: 1. Committed suicide by shootings himself 15 times at the back of his head 2. If you are surprised by his suicide, imagine how surprised he himself was Reddit has been predicting this for days or weeks now.
- m0zg 7y agoAnd notice how all mainstream media headlines use a strictly affirmative tone wrt whether it really was a suicide. CNN: "Jeffrey Epstein died by suicide" NyTimes: "Jeffrey Epstein hanged himself in jail" ABC: "Jeffrey Epstein died by suicide" etc etc. Just go to Google News and see for yourself. It's as if no reasonable person could possibly suspect that he was helped along, even though literally everyone was saying he will not live long enough to see trial, for months. Lots of very powerful people (including some/all of the media owners) want this swept under the rug as quickly as possible for obvious reasons. I expect that it will be memory holed within a week at most. If DOJ/FBI/US penitentiary is not complicit, they should take in Ghislaine Maxwell into custody at this time and put her on the suicide watch, but for real this time. And possibly also offer protective custody to some of the girls who are testifying.
- rurban 7y agoBut the dead guy who was photographed when they rolled him out, had a different nose and a different ear. Convenient, if so.
- 6nf 7y agoHe was suicided.
- ffff8888 7y agoAcosta said the reason he didn’t give him a harsher sentence back in 2007 was because he “belonged to intelligence”. >> He’d cut the non-prosecution deal with one of Epstein’s attorneys because he had “been told” to back off, that Epstein was above his pay grade. “I was told Epstein ‘belonged to intelligence’ and to leave it alone,” he told his interviewers in the Trump transition, who evidently thought that was a sufficient answer and went ahead and hired Acosta. <<
- badrabbit 7y agoI too believe this might be a conspiracy of some sort But there is still a chance he committed suicide willingly. Perhaps he himself couldn't stand the upcoming revelations and bribed the guards or someone else to remove some of the restrictions so he can roam free enough to do the deed. I read before,he has had a conviction at some point where he only served time on weekends and basically had cops dedicated to his "protection" who called him "Mr. Epstein" unlike they would a normal prisoner. I just hate concluding with incomplete information at hand.
- sidcool 7y agoThis reminds of the famous 'Whackings' scene from the movie The Casino. Reference: https://youtu.be/m4NUFTwAlQc https://youtu.be/m4NUFTwAlQc
- drukenemo 7y agoRelevant https://reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/covug3/nothing_to_see_here/ https://reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/covug3/noth...