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Amazon's Anti-Union Training Video [video]
- AndyMcConachie 7y agoI love how they list "living wage" as a warning word.
- ethbro 7y agoAmong pretty much every other activity. "Showing interest in benefits or plans" I'd tend towards it being a fake, if it didn't seem reasonable these are the kinds of ends Amazon HR goes to in order to keep their labor pools un-unionized.
- Thorrez 7y agoIt wasn't simply "showing interest in benefits or plans", it was showing "unusual interest" in them. Amazon commented on the video saying Gizmodo "“cherry-picked soundbites” from the video". If it was fake, Amazon wouldn't say something like that, Amazon would say it's fake. https://gizmodo.com/amazons-aggressive-anti-union-tactics-revealed-in-leake-1829305201 https://gizmodo.com/amazons-aggressive-anti-union-tactics-re...
- jart 7y agoAny phrase that's open to interpretation helps organizers. The migrant might think a living wage is $15/hour while the native feels it's $60k/year. Two very different beliefs; but on the surface, they're both getting pumped up in agreement behind the organizer who's demanding it. That scares management. They know they'll lose control the moment someone comes along, who's more effective than them at winning over the hearts and minds of their employees. It's why I'm always a bit disappointed to see big businesses reacting with FUD rather than HOPE.
- 1123581321 7y agoIt is not always an objectively used term. At a previous job, everyone earned well and we still had an employee trying to get people worked up about earning a living wage. To him, it just meant a pay raise, but trying to get it through an organizational political process.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- icxa 7y agoAbsurdity of this video aside, but I just wish there was room in today's political environment to discuss pros and cons to unions and non-unions. There are some pretty good examples of unions being corrupt, there are examples where unions work. There are examples where like Amazon says, having a direct relationship with your employer is the best. Nuance is gone which is the biggest loss.
- ggm 7y ago"The principle is sound but sometimes the implementation is weak"? A question to ask is perhaps, if a Mondragon workers cooperative should have a union?
- cameronbrown 7y agoDevil's Advocate: If there are so many examples of weak implementations, then is the principle therefore unsound?
- nyolfen 7y agois it pointless to attempt democracy when so many democratic states are corrupt?
- chr1 7y agoNot a good comparison because democratic states are consistently better than non-democratic ones, so we have evidence that democracy is an improvement compared to other methods.
- zaksoup 7y ago> democratic states are consistently better than non-democratic ones Union wages are consistently higher than non-union wages, so we have evidence that unions are an improvement compared to direct relationships with employers. Source: literally every long-term economic comparison of wages done for the last 50 years.
- wrong_variable 7y agoOrganized labor was extremely problematic for capital since WW2. The new dealers ( FDR, Truman ) gave organized labor tremendous power because without it the USA would probably have had a big communist party. They also knew the deflationary period of the 1930s lead to the rise of fascism and nationalism in Europe. So the petty greed of capital was scarified at the altar to maintain peace. They were also willing to sacrifice growth to maintain peace. We are going through a similar period of deflationary shock, so it's going to be interesting to see how it plays out and ends. Most likely the source of unrest may not be US but China.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- H8crilA 7y agoUhm, modern Germany? Many companies have labor representatives on board (for example Volkswagen). The country is just fine. > They were also willing to sacrifice growth to maintain peace. Who would do such a thing! We should get back to my grandfather times, he was happy because he was a child, and children did not only get a few potatoes to eat per day, but also a little bit of oil with it. Also I suppose it's kind of romantic to have sex with a stranger on the barricades before being shot to death and having your body join the decomposing pile of bodies in the streets.
- ars 7y agoEuropean style unions are not the same as American ones, despite the same name. One huge difference is there can only be a single union at an American company, while with the European style an employee can pick which to chose from.
- lr4444lr 7y agoI don't think that is correct. My understanding of American union activity was that it was much less associated with communist movements than Europe, in large part because of its history with machine politics and various ethnic affinities. The real problem with American unions is its bloody fight against suppression in the late 19th century. American labor relations with management are war compared to Europe and Asia.
- lrg 7y agoIt's funny how they couldn't get an amazon warehouse employee to stand in front of a camera and read this script.
- toofy 7y agoThere was a Home Depot anti-union video floating around yesterday. [1] What really struck me is how much they remind me of the cringey anti-drug videos we used to watch in like middle school, “If you see a suspicious person smoking something that looks like a cigarette but smells funny, cross the street to get away. They may offer you a joint for free to get you hooked. If you smoke that joint, before you know it they’ll be giving you free crack. Cool kids just say no.” I mean, obviously, just like everything, unions have pros and cons, but does this kind of cheesy fear mongering actually work? If we could see through it and make fun of it as children, surely a grown adult would find it as off putting as kids do? [1] https://youtu.be/QrmNojOCiak https://youtu.be/QrmNojOCiak
- ken 7y agoEven if I didn't know anything about unions before, the mere fact that all these mega-corps are spending the money to make anti-union videos would seem awfully suspicious. Why would companies have anything to fear, if unions were really so terrible for workers? These anti-union videos are indeed reminiscent of the anti-drug videos. Drugs are unhealthy, expensive, and illegal -- so DARE should be shooting fish in a barrel, and yet they still have zero demonstrated effectiveness. Hearing an adult in a position of power tell you not to do something only makes it seem more attractive.
- vinay_ys 7y agoThese videos have definitely made a lot of people curious about unions.
- applecrazy 7y agoIt’s the Streisand Effect all over again.
- majewsky 7y agoThe cynicist in me says these videos are not going to change anyone's minds. Either you think highly of unions, in which case this will make it even more clear to you that Amazon workers need to unionize. Or you don't like what unions do, in which case the video provides you with arguments.
- sehugg 7y agoTarget made one back in the day: https://archive.org/details/TargetAnti-unionPropagandaVideo https://archive.org/details/TargetAnti-unionPropagandaVideo
- jasonhansel 7y agoThe best/worst parts: - Valuing innovation while saying that nothing should ever change in their relationships with employees - Using the words "vulnerability to organizing" and "dangers of organizing" as if it's a terrible disease - Saying that unionizing employees aren't displaying "normal behavior" - Calling the phrase "living wage" a warning sign - Refusing to explain why it is that employees might want to unionize
- deogeo 7y ago> Refusing to explain why it is that employees might want to unionize It's obvious, isn't it? Workers organize because they are greedy and lazy, while capital organizes because they are innovative and industrious.
- vore 7y agoI like how they claim they're not "anti-union" but also not "neutral": sounds like following a very within the letter of the law way to union bust without actually falling afoul of labor laws.
- black_puppydog 7y agoI would have thought this was parody if it hadn't recently featured in John Oliver's Last Week Tonight... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9m7d07k22A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9m7d07k22A
- CryptoPunk 7y agoIf Amazon's work force unionizes, Amazon will cease to be a dynamic company that sees rapid foreign expansion and growth in export revenue it earns for the US. The US will see yet another major driver of innovation and production growth, this time the tech industry, succumb to social activists and their rent-seeking-motivated ideological narratives. A century of pro-union-monopoly advocacy will not change the fact that unions as generally conceived are anti-market interventions and thus economically unsound.
- mirimir 7y agoA century of pro-corporation-monopoly advocacy will not change the fact that corporations as generally conceived are anti-market interventions and thus economically unsound.
- CryptoPunk 7y agoCorporations as generally conceived are not anti-market interventions. A union backed by the state imposing a rule that violates an employer's contracting rights by 1. preventing them from negotiating with workers outside of the union, 2. preventing them from firing workers who unionize or strike and replacing them with new workers, is. These are blatant anti-market interventions that give any group of workers that unionize an effective state-backed monopoly over their employer's labor force. The conspiratorial narratives about opposition to such state-backed monopolies being nothing more than Big Business trying to mislead and exploit the little guy, and such monopolies being in the public interest, is nothing more than economic quackery, on par with anti-vaxxer conspiracy theories about vaccination being a harmful practice that is only widely promoted because of the nefarious influence of Big Pharma. The economic reality is that these rules create rent-seeking and reduce economic efficiency. They will destroy Amazon's dynamism. Giving a select group of workers a temporary wage boost at the expense of the industry that sustains them is the same short-sighted policy implemented in the post-war era, which saw workers see large wage gains, and then saw the industries that employed them suffer massive bankruptcies and contractions.
- mirimir 7y ago
- lr4444lr 7y agoYouTube comments are usually a cesspool, but sometimes a real gem makes it through, like this: > notices another worker says "grievance" > i was trained for this > i run to the hrm > i twist my ankle jumping over my piss bottles > i struggle to limp through the warehouse as the other workers have to push me over so the make their times. > i fall over from heat exhaustion because the hvac has never worked > finally at the hrm > i get fired before i can report the red scourge
- gigama 7y agoOr this one from Garmen Lin: Why did Jeff Bezos get divorced? Because his marriage... was a union!!
- andrepd 7y agoI love how they say "associates" instead of "employees". Indeed the sheen of the coat of paint is different and shinier, but the tactics and morals are as scummy as 100 years ago.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- bibinou 7y agofull 29 minutes version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRpwVwFxyk4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRpwVwFxyk4
- jewelry 7y agoWhy is anti-union a bad thing? Couldn't resonate with the idea that union is saving workers. They are not.
- petermcneeley 7y agoCare to elaborate?
- hannasanarion 7y agoDon't you find it at least a little bit suspicious that the big companies are putting so much money and effort into preventing unions "for the benefit of the workers"? Since when has Amazon done anything for the benefit of the workers?
- Animats 7y agoSimilar info from "unionproof.org"[1]: Managers may notice a change in the language of employees because it becomes more formal and legal in nature. Employees may start using union words like “grievance,” “arbitration,” “job security,” “employee rights,” “prevailing wage” and “unfair labor practices.” They may also start asking their immediate supervisor or manager questions around these topics, so be sure you have a system in place for your front-line managers to report a change in employee behavior that could be an indication of organizing activity. "Union Proof Certification" is a thing. The Communications Workers of America describes typical employer tactics from the labor side.[2] Historically, neither side is very creative, so once you know what the standard moves are, you know what to expect. [1] https://blog.unionproof.com/are-you-missing-these-10-signs-of-union-organizing-activity/ https://blog.unionproof.com/are-you-missing-these-10-signs-o... [2] https://unionbustingplaybook.com https://unionbustingplaybook.com
- gigama 7y agoPer their own words, worker unions impede "speed, innovation, and customer obsession." Yeah, gotta feed that customer obsession at all costs.
- xkcd-sucks 7y agoBy definition obsession is a pathology...........
- hannasanarion 7y agoIt's also a very strange way to spell "shareholder"
- jdkee 7y agoGiven the wage stagnation in the U.S. since the mid-1970s, it is fairly clear in 2019 that capital won and labor lost.
- pasquinelli 7y agoThe conflict between labor and capital comes from the nature of labor and the nature of capital. It won't ever be won or lost; the conflict will carry on or labor and capital will no longer describe how our productive capacity is organized. 1970 to 2020 is 50 years. Consider how long feudalism lasted before it was discarded.
- sneak 7y ago“We’re not anti-union, we’re just anti-everything-a-union-does.”
- Schnitz 7y agoThere's only one company whose recruiting emails ALWAYS get deleted sight unseen: Amazon. Who in their right mind would want to work for a company that encourages union busting?
- seibelj 7y agoWhat company wishes their employees were unionized? I’ve yet to find an example of management demanding unionization of their free workforce. Unions, by definition, are strictly about the collective over the individual. You must acquiesce that you have no individual value and qualities that raise you above the minimal employee in order to benefit. Decisions like Janus are supremely on-point: let unions justify their existence to their own members. Forcing one to join the union as a prerequisite for employment is undeniably immoral and robs employees of free choice.