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How to stop Apple from listening to your Siri recordings

109 points by october_sky 7y ago

hprotagonist 7y ago
"curl some rando's plist" still gives me the willies, honestly. And i know it's just XML!
- ihuman 7y ago
  If you go to the github [0] linked in the article, it tells you how to create your own using Apple's Configurator application [1]. In the "restrictions" section, uncheck "Allow server-side logging of Siri commands". You can also preview the raw XML of the config profile on github without downloading the file [2]. [0] https://github.com/jankais3r/Siri-NoLoggingPLS https://github.com/jankais3r/Siri-NoLoggingPLS [1] https://raw.githubusercontent.com/jankais3r/Siri-NoLoggingPLS/master/configurator.png https://raw.githubusercontent.com/jankais3r/Siri-NoLoggingPL... [2] https://github.com/jankais3r/Siri-NoLoggingPLS/blob/master/Prevent%20server-side%20logging%20of%20Siri%20commands.mobileconfig https://github.com/jankais3r/Siri-NoLoggingPLS/blob/master/P...
cj 7y ago
Funny to see an article promoting the use of Apple Device Profiles on the front page. There was just an article last week on the front page describing how installing device profiles is unacceptable: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20514833 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20514833
- oarsinsync 7y ago
  Device profiles are the superset. It allows a wide range of features and functions. Mobile device management uses a subset of what device profiles allow for, along with additional external tooling. They're similar, but the thread you linked to is about MDM, not device profiles in general. Deploying a device profile is akin to accepting a self signed certificate. When it's of your own generation, it's probably fine, if someone else has done it, you should question what's happening and whether or not it's right for you to accept it or not.
jerkstate 7y ago
Does this just disable logging for the device you install it on, or the whole Apple account? What about Siri on Mac, HomePods, etc?
- bobwaycott 7y ago
  Profiles are only activated on the devices you install it on, iirc.
mcv 7y ago
Another option is of course to simply not use an iOS device. Having to download some third-party thing to disable it, really shouldn't be necessary. There should be a simple setting in iOS to turn Siri's listening on or off.
- petard 7y ago
  You don't need a some third-party thing, you can create the profile yourself using the Apple Configurator. Agree that this should be an easily accessible system setting like OP suggests.
  - jaclaz 7y ago
    As a matter of fact it should be "default" and need an actual "opt-in" to allow the server side logging.
    - viraptor 7y ago
      It's on by default because it has a very important function for Apple. If it was opt-in, Siri would be a much weaker service.
      - jen20 7y ago
        The configuration to allow listening at all (to start Siri by code phrase) is opt-in during device setup. While I would like to see a checkbox for allowing human review of Siri messages also, at least there is a way to _opt out_ - something most mobile devices simply do not have.
- adolph 7y ago
  That already exists. There are a class of users who want to use Siri and “turn off logging of server-side Siri commands.” That is what the iOS profile does.
bobwaycott 7y ago
INSTRUCTIONS—For those who wish to do this on their own without downloading and installing a third-party's profile to their device(s) (and have a Mac): 1. Download Apple Configurator 2 from the Mac App Store. 2. Open the app, plug in your iOS device, and click on it to activate working on it. 3. Command+N to create a new Profile. 4. Under General, fill out the mandatory info (only name is required). 5. Click Restrictions, then click Configure. Un-check the 10th top-level checkbox that says "Allow server-side logging of Siri commands". Take a look at other things you'd like to control. 6. Command+S to save the profile. Close the window. 7. Click on Profiles in left sidebar. Click Add Profiles. Select the profile you just saved. Ensure your device is unlocked, and it will be added to your device. 8. Go into Settings app on your device. There will be an entry at the top that says "Profile Downloaded". Tap into that and select to install the profile.
strooper 7y ago
Stopping Apple from listening to Siri, stopping Google from listening to Google Assistant, stopping Amazon from listening to Alexa, stopping Google from collecting data from android devices - these sort of articles and arguments seem flawed right at the title. Those companies have created those devices to listen to you, and your surrounding, to understand you better and serve you the right product or service or their ads. You can not have both smooth service and complete privacy if the data is restricted, as the system will not get to learn you.
- intopieces 7y ago
  Spot on. I am happy that users are learning about what it takes to improve these services. If they prefer not to have their voice contribute to those improvements, I recommend they turn the services off altogether.
  - JustSomeNobody 7y ago
    > If they prefer not to have their voice contribute to those improvements, I recommend they turn the services off altogether. Wait, what?? That's it? On or Off? What if it is "good enough" right now for some people?
    - intopieces 7y ago
      In my experience, the class of user that both turns off their contributions to improvements and also remains satisfied simply doesn’t exist. People will turn off the server-side logging because an article told them to, then they’ll complain that Siri sucks, and the service won’t get better. Therefore, I recommend that people who don’t want to help improve the services through the logging process simply turn it off altogether. That is the safest way to make sure their utterances are not going someplace they are not comfortable with.
      - jschwartzi 7y ago
        In the current scenario, all server-side logging is on by default and there's no way to turn it off. In fact the devices don't even tell you when or what they're logging, so it can be assumed to be ever-present. However, if you turn it off and then ask people for their data during specific time periods, (EG can I log your voice commands for the next 24 hours?) then people are aware of what you're doing, there is a limited period where they're giving up their privacy, and it's based on informed consent. What these companies are actually doing is highly unethical from a scientific perspective. They're using people to train their models without even informing the experimental subjects that their data is being collected. There's no debrief for the subjects so they can understand what was learned.
elagost 7y ago
So does anyone know if this actually works?
- taqcp 7y ago
  How could we ever check?
  - MichaelApproved 7y ago
    Network traffic logs.
    - taqcp 7y ago
      Your voice is always sent to Apple to process it since Siri doesn't work locally; what we are wondering is whether that voice recording is permanently stored or destroyed as soon as it's processed.
      - louiz 7y ago
        So… This is just a “please, don’t record what I send you”? How could anyone believe apple will obey this demand?
        dymk 7y ago
        How can anybody trust anyone to do anything? They have a good track record of respecting user privacy.
        iamnotacrook 7y ago
        But.... Let's try again... How do we know that?
        dymk 7y ago
        You don't know it for a fact. You trust them to not do it. Yes, let's try again, how do you know you can trust anybody to do anything? Do you hold a gun to their head? Do you trust the courts to uphold written agreements/contracts that dictate the other party's behavior? Do you observe their past behavior and use that to guess future behavior? In 99% of our daily actions, we use the last option, and right now is no exception.
ropiwqefjnpoa 7y ago
Not Apple, but I'm pretty happy with the Amazon firestick. It only listens when you press the button on the remote. Seems acceptable if that's all Amazon is logging.
- dangoor 7y ago
  As I understand it, Apple devices don't start sending audio data to Apple until you say "Hey Siri" (which is interpreted on the device). It may not be as explicit as pushing a button, but it seems close.
  - GRiMe2D 7y ago
    And most important, you can disable "Hey Siri" trigger on your iPhone/Mac or Apple Watch. If you disabled "Hey Siri" trigger (and left "Siri" on) then you have to long press "Home" button (or button on the right, if you are on iPhone X and later) to start "Siri"
    - ropiwqefjnpoa 7y ago
      I know, but that prevents CarPlay from working, which I really like...
- Anechoic 7y ago
  You can do the same on iPhones by turning off "hey Siri" and configuring Siri to work manually.
pintxo 7y ago
This sounds too easy: do not use Siri in the first place?
tga 7y ago
How about a better question -- if you turn off everything Siri in the settings, are there circumstances in which an iPhone will still send audio to their servers? This to me would be the only reasonable way of stopping Apple from listening in, while still using an iPhone.
bluesign 7y ago
Good luck removing 2019-05-03 Removed allowSiriServerLogging from the Restrictions Payload. [0] https://developer.apple.com/business/documentation/Configuration-Profile-Reference.pdf https://developer.apple.com/business/documentation/Configura...
- givinguflac 7y ago
  I created my own profile for this and have removed and re-added it just to test. Not sure what you think it's preventing.
  - bluesign 7y ago
    Oh I meant good luck removing server side tracking, allowSiriServerLogging key is not valid anymore, so has no effect as far as I can see.
jraph 7y ago
"Hey Siri, can you stop Apple from listening to my Siri recordings?" "Hey Siri!… Siri?!" P.S. If someone out there has an Apple device, I'm interested in knowing what the actual response to this request is.
- cardiffspaceman 7y ago
  Siri responded with a web search that resulted in some articles about how to accomplish what you ask about. I think it included this thread. I didn't bother to visit the resulting pages.
  - jraph 7y ago
    Thanks!

109 points by october_sky 7y ago

hprotagonist 7y ago

"curl some rando's plist" still gives me the willies, honestly. And i know it's just XML!

ihuman 7y ago
If you go to the github [0] linked in the article, it tells you how to create your own using Apple's Configurator application [1]. In the "restrictions" section, uncheck "Allow server-side logging of Siri commands". You can also preview the raw XML of the config profile on github without downloading the file [2]. [0] https://github.com/jankais3r/Siri-NoLoggingPLS https://github.com/jankais3r/Siri-NoLoggingPLS [1] https://raw.githubusercontent.com/jankais3r/Siri-NoLoggingPLS/master/configurator.png https://raw.githubusercontent.com/jankais3r/Siri-NoLoggingPL... [2] https://github.com/jankais3r/Siri-NoLoggingPLS/blob/master/Prevent%20server-side%20logging%20of%20Siri%20commands.mobileconfig https://github.com/jankais3r/Siri-NoLoggingPLS/blob/master/P...

cj 7y ago

Funny to see an article promoting the use of Apple Device Profiles on the front page. There was just an article last week on the front page describing how installing device profiles is unacceptable: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20514833 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20514833

oarsinsync 7y ago
Device profiles are the superset. It allows a wide range of features and functions. Mobile device management uses a subset of what device profiles allow for, along with additional external tooling. They're similar, but the thread you linked to is about MDM, not device profiles in general. Deploying a device profile is akin to accepting a self signed certificate. When it's of your own generation, it's probably fine, if someone else has done it, you should question what's happening and whether or not it's right for you to accept it or not.

jerkstate 7y ago

Does this just disable logging for the device you install it on, or the whole Apple account? What about Siri on Mac, HomePods, etc?

bobwaycott 7y ago
Profiles are only activated on the devices you install it on, iirc.

mcv 7y ago

Another option is of course to simply not use an iOS device. Having to download some third-party thing to disable it, really shouldn't be necessary. There should be a simple setting in iOS to turn Siri's listening on or off.

petard 7y ago
You don't need a some third-party thing, you can create the profile yourself using the Apple Configurator. Agree that this should be an easily accessible system setting like OP suggests.
- jaclaz 7y ago
  As a matter of fact it should be "default" and need an actual "opt-in" to allow the server side logging.
  - viraptor 7y ago
    It's on by default because it has a very important function for Apple. If it was opt-in, Siri would be a much weaker service.
    - jen20 7y ago
      The configuration to allow listening at all (to start Siri by code phrase) is opt-in during device setup. While I would like to see a checkbox for allowing human review of Siri messages also, at least there is a way to _opt out_ - something most mobile devices simply do not have.
adolph 7y ago
That already exists. There are a class of users who want to use Siri and “turn off logging of server-side Siri commands.” That is what the iOS profile does.

bobwaycott 7y ago

INSTRUCTIONS—For those who wish to do this on their own without downloading and installing a third-party's profile to their device(s) (and have a Mac): 1. Download Apple Configurator 2 from the Mac App Store. 2. Open the app, plug in your iOS device, and click on it to activate working on it. 3. Command+N to create a new Profile. 4. Under General, fill out the mandatory info (only name is required). 5. Click Restrictions, then click Configure. Un-check the 10th top-level checkbox that says "Allow server-side logging of Siri commands". Take a look at other things you'd like to control. 6. Command+S to save the profile. Close the window. 7. Click on Profiles in left sidebar. Click Add Profiles. Select the profile you just saved. Ensure your device is unlocked, and it will be added to your device. 8. Go into Settings app on your device. There will be an entry at the top that says "Profile Downloaded". Tap into that and select to install the profile.

strooper 7y ago

Stopping Apple from listening to Siri, stopping Google from listening to Google Assistant, stopping Amazon from listening to Alexa, stopping Google from collecting data from android devices - these sort of articles and arguments seem flawed right at the title. Those companies have created those devices to listen to you, and your surrounding, to understand you better and serve you the right product or service or their ads. You can not have both smooth service and complete privacy if the data is restricted, as the system will not get to learn you.

intopieces 7y ago
Spot on. I am happy that users are learning about what it takes to improve these services. If they prefer not to have their voice contribute to those improvements, I recommend they turn the services off altogether.
- JustSomeNobody 7y ago
  > If they prefer not to have their voice contribute to those improvements, I recommend they turn the services off altogether. Wait, what?? That's it? On or Off? What if it is "good enough" right now for some people?
  - intopieces 7y ago
    In my experience, the class of user that both turns off their contributions to improvements and also remains satisfied simply doesn’t exist. People will turn off the server-side logging because an article told them to, then they’ll complain that Siri sucks, and the service won’t get better. Therefore, I recommend that people who don’t want to help improve the services through the logging process simply turn it off altogether. That is the safest way to make sure their utterances are not going someplace they are not comfortable with.
    - jschwartzi 7y ago
      In the current scenario, all server-side logging is on by default and there's no way to turn it off. In fact the devices don't even tell you when or what they're logging, so it can be assumed to be ever-present. However, if you turn it off and then ask people for their data during specific time periods, (EG can I log your voice commands for the next 24 hours?) then people are aware of what you're doing, there is a limited period where they're giving up their privacy, and it's based on informed consent. What these companies are actually doing is highly unethical from a scientific perspective. They're using people to train their models without even informing the experimental subjects that their data is being collected. There's no debrief for the subjects so they can understand what was learned.

elagost 7y ago

So does anyone know if this actually works?

taqcp 7y ago
How could we ever check?
- MichaelApproved 7y ago
  Network traffic logs.
  - taqcp 7y ago
    Your voice is always sent to Apple to process it since Siri doesn't work locally; what we are wondering is whether that voice recording is permanently stored or destroyed as soon as it's processed.
    - louiz 7y ago
      So… This is just a “please, don’t record what I send you”? How could anyone believe apple will obey this demand?
      - dymk 7y ago
        How can anybody trust anyone to do anything? They have a good track record of respecting user privacy.
        iamnotacrook 7y ago
        But.... Let's try again... How do we know that?
        dymk 7y ago
        You don't know it for a fact. You trust them to not do it. Yes, let's try again, how do you know you can trust anybody to do anything? Do you hold a gun to their head? Do you trust the courts to uphold written agreements/contracts that dictate the other party's behavior? Do you observe their past behavior and use that to guess future behavior? In 99% of our daily actions, we use the last option, and right now is no exception.

ropiwqefjnpoa 7y ago

Not Apple, but I'm pretty happy with the Amazon firestick. It only listens when you press the button on the remote. Seems acceptable if that's all Amazon is logging.

dangoor 7y ago
As I understand it, Apple devices don't start sending audio data to Apple until you say "Hey Siri" (which is interpreted on the device). It may not be as explicit as pushing a button, but it seems close.
- GRiMe2D 7y ago
  And most important, you can disable "Hey Siri" trigger on your iPhone/Mac or Apple Watch. If you disabled "Hey Siri" trigger (and left "Siri" on) then you have to long press "Home" button (or button on the right, if you are on iPhone X and later) to start "Siri"
  - ropiwqefjnpoa 7y ago
    I know, but that prevents CarPlay from working, which I really like...
Anechoic 7y ago
You can do the same on iPhones by turning off "hey Siri" and configuring Siri to work manually.

pintxo 7y ago

This sounds too easy: do not use Siri in the first place?

tga 7y ago

How about a better question -- if you turn off everything Siri in the settings, are there circumstances in which an iPhone will still send audio to their servers? This to me would be the only reasonable way of stopping Apple from listening in, while still using an iPhone.

bluesign 7y ago

Good luck removing 2019-05-03 Removed allowSiriServerLogging from the Restrictions Payload. [0] https://developer.apple.com/business/documentation/Configuration-Profile-Reference.pdf https://developer.apple.com/business/documentation/Configura...

givinguflac 7y ago
I created my own profile for this and have removed and re-added it just to test. Not sure what you think it's preventing.
- bluesign 7y ago
  Oh I meant good luck removing server side tracking, allowSiriServerLogging key is not valid anymore, so has no effect as far as I can see.

jraph 7y ago

"Hey Siri, can you stop Apple from listening to my Siri recordings?" "Hey Siri!… Siri?!" P.S. If someone out there has an Apple device, I'm interested in knowing what the actual response to this request is.

cardiffspaceman 7y ago
Siri responded with a web search that resulted in some articles about how to accomplish what you ask about. I think it included this thread. I didn't bother to visit the resulting pages.
- jraph 7y ago
  Thanks!