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The headline seems obvious, but this actually is an escalation. Beijing is requesting change, by what seems to be any means necessary, in a public video confere

The headline seems obvious, but this actually is an escalation. Beijing is requesting change, by what seems to be any means necessary, in a public video conference. It seems to be a warning, until this quote. “We have noted that the special region’s government has already done some serious summary and reflection,” said Xu Luying, a spokeswoman for the affairs office, citing Mrs. Lam as saying she would “change the administrative style, and listen to public opinion more openly and inclusively.” I'm surprised by that language as it seems to be targeted at a Western, potentially even Coastal US, audience. Especially when sending Chinese troops has appeared to be a possible option of last resort. All in all, I'm not sure what to make of the situation, but I hope that the conflict gets resolved in a way that allows Hong Kong to maintain further sovereignty. I doubt that that it will.

mytailorisrich 7y ago
Saying that sending troops is an option of last resort is stating the obvious and legal reality (the Hong Kong executive can request help from the PLA by law). While this can be interpreted as a threat, I highly doubt that the central or Hong Kong governments are considering the option. Really, the central government does not need to do anything at the moment. Realistically these protests cannot lead anywhere and the only ones they hurt are Hong Kong people themselves and their future at a time when Hong Kong is no longer strategically important (although still important).
- LordFast 7y ago
  "Realistically these protests cannot lead anywhere and the only ones they hurt are Hong Kong people themselves and their future at a time when Hong Kong is no longer strategically important (although still important)." Ding ding ding. Tough pill to swallow for anyone walking in the same shoes but it's the pragmatic truth. Analogously, high-flying startup gets bought by mega corp. News at 11, and the human story repeats itself.
  - AznHisoka 7y ago
    "Analogously, high-flying startup gets bought by mega corp" What do startups getting acquired have to do with Hong Kong's relationship with China?
    - Darkphibre 7y ago
      I'm guessing you may be unaware of the fact that Hong Kong was re-acquired by China in 1997. It had been allowed freedoms that were nigh-unbelievable in mainland China, which allowed it to surge in growth and expertise at an extremely rapid rate during the 80s and 90s. The transition was a tense one with the world watching to see what would happen. China let the 'startup' city run independently for a while, and now it's finally reigning it in to be more aligned to toe the'corporate line.' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Hong_Kong#1990s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Hong_Kong#1990s
      - adinobro 7y ago
        They also got freedoms that they never had under the British either. The next 10 to 15 years seem to be their golden years.
        hker 7y ago
        It should be noted that Britain tried to give Hong Kong more democracy and freedom since the 60’s but got rejected by China [1], when saying that Hong Kong had more freedom after the handover in 1997. [1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/28/world/asia/china-began-push-against-hong-kong-elections-in-50s.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/28/world/asia/china-began-pu...
        tepidandroid 7y ago
        That’s like me taking your wallet, but still offering to let you use your debit card once in a while. At the end of the day, it's a colonizer dictating the terms of governance over territory obtained through coercive means.
- georgeecollins 7y ago
  >> Realistically these protests cannot lead anywhere Perhaps they could prevent legal extradition to the mainland? I think that people in Japan, South Korea and most importantly Taiwan watch what is going on. China has all the cards to play, but they will hurt their soft power if they are too draconian.
  - ETHisso2017 7y ago
    ≫Perhaps they could prevent legal extradition to the mainland? Haven't they accomplished that already?
    - NicoJuicy 7y ago
      And they can pick it up later, when the unrest seddles. So no :)
      - mytailorisrich 7y ago
        What do you suggest, though? The government can propose bills. So even if they fully withdraw the current bill you can never have certainty that there won't be a similar bill proposed in the future. Therefore I think that they have achieved all they could about this issue.
        NicoJuicy 7y ago
        No, Previously, Lam suspended the bill amid mass protests, saying it will expire next July when the Legislative Council’s current term ends. But protesters have continued to demand the plan be axed completely. https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/07/09/hong-kongs-carrie-lam-declares-extradition-bill-dead-stops-short-full-withdrawal/ https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/07/09/hong-kongs-carrie-lam-...
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - SkyBelow 7y ago
yorwba 7y ago
> I'm surprised by that language as it seems to be targeted at a Western, potentially even Coastal US, audience. Not at all. If a government institution or company in China makes an unpopular decision that leads to large protests, the government will usually issue a statement that condemns the protests as "riots", but simultaneously promises changes that basically amount to fulfilling the protester's demands, i.e. they do some "summary and reflection". The government's power isn't threatened by the occasional protest succeeding, but by those protests growing in scale, either by making more demands or by inspiring similar movements in other parts of China. That's why they censor all news about ongoing protests, arrest any leaders they can identify and send in riot police to stop the protesters reaching any place where they can get more attention. But those measures aren't effective at stopping a protest that has already started, they can only prevent it from spreading. In the end, some actual change is necessary to convince protesters that there's no need to keep protesting and they can go home. So basically the central government is criticizing the Hong Kong government for not acquiescing to the demands quickly enough and letting the protests grow to this scale, where they can't be kept out of the news anymore.
kevin_b_er 7y ago
HK still represents a Chinese world where the CPC and Xi do not have absolute rule. It represents a Chinese world that has or had some democracy where the people could petition government for redress of grievances and where people can choose their own representatives. This cannot be permitted. They cannot have the Chinese people of mainland China think they have the freedom to have any public redress of grievances with the CPC. So we will likely see this violently crushed, because this is all about perception. As the protests continue, there's a greater and greater likelyhood CPC propaganda can no longer distort the truth. So CPC must put it down. And since HK is no longer as financially relevant and the UK is astoundingly weak by comparison to 50 years ago, we will likely see Basic Law die.

mytailorisrich 7y ago

Saying that sending troops is an option of last resort is stating the obvious and legal reality (the Hong Kong executive can request help from the PLA by law). While this can be interpreted as a threat, I highly doubt that the central or Hong Kong governments are considering the option. Really, the central government does not need to do anything at the moment. Realistically these protests cannot lead anywhere and the only ones they hurt are Hong Kong people themselves and their future at a time when Hong Kong is no longer strategically important (although still important).

LordFast 7y ago
"Realistically these protests cannot lead anywhere and the only ones they hurt are Hong Kong people themselves and their future at a time when Hong Kong is no longer strategically important (although still important)." Ding ding ding. Tough pill to swallow for anyone walking in the same shoes but it's the pragmatic truth. Analogously, high-flying startup gets bought by mega corp. News at 11, and the human story repeats itself.
- AznHisoka 7y ago
  "Analogously, high-flying startup gets bought by mega corp" What do startups getting acquired have to do with Hong Kong's relationship with China?
  - Darkphibre 7y ago
    I'm guessing you may be unaware of the fact that Hong Kong was re-acquired by China in 1997. It had been allowed freedoms that were nigh-unbelievable in mainland China, which allowed it to surge in growth and expertise at an extremely rapid rate during the 80s and 90s. The transition was a tense one with the world watching to see what would happen. China let the 'startup' city run independently for a while, and now it's finally reigning it in to be more aligned to toe the'corporate line.' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Hong_Kong#1990s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Hong_Kong#1990s
    - adinobro 7y ago
      They also got freedoms that they never had under the British either. The next 10 to 15 years seem to be their golden years.
      - hker 7y ago
        It should be noted that Britain tried to give Hong Kong more democracy and freedom since the 60’s but got rejected by China [1], when saying that Hong Kong had more freedom after the handover in 1997. [1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/28/world/asia/china-began-push-against-hong-kong-elections-in-50s.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/28/world/asia/china-began-pu...
        tepidandroid 7y ago
        That’s like me taking your wallet, but still offering to let you use your debit card once in a while. At the end of the day, it's a colonizer dictating the terms of governance over territory obtained through coercive means.
georgeecollins 7y ago
>> Realistically these protests cannot lead anywhere Perhaps they could prevent legal extradition to the mainland? I think that people in Japan, South Korea and most importantly Taiwan watch what is going on. China has all the cards to play, but they will hurt their soft power if they are too draconian.
- ETHisso2017 7y ago
  ≫Perhaps they could prevent legal extradition to the mainland? Haven't they accomplished that already?
  - NicoJuicy 7y ago
    And they can pick it up later, when the unrest seddles. So no :)
    - mytailorisrich 7y ago
      What do you suggest, though? The government can propose bills. So even if they fully withdraw the current bill you can never have certainty that there won't be a similar bill proposed in the future. Therefore I think that they have achieved all they could about this issue.
      - NicoJuicy 7y ago
        No, Previously, Lam suspended the bill amid mass protests, saying it will expire next July when the Legislative Council’s current term ends. But protesters have continued to demand the plan be axed completely. https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/07/09/hong-kongs-carrie-lam-declares-extradition-bill-dead-stops-short-full-withdrawal/ https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/07/09/hong-kongs-carrie-lam-...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- SkyBelow 7y ago

yorwba 7y ago

> I'm surprised by that language as it seems to be targeted at a Western, potentially even Coastal US, audience. Not at all. If a government institution or company in China makes an unpopular decision that leads to large protests, the government will usually issue a statement that condemns the protests as "riots", but simultaneously promises changes that basically amount to fulfilling the protester's demands, i.e. they do some "summary and reflection". The government's power isn't threatened by the occasional protest succeeding, but by those protests growing in scale, either by making more demands or by inspiring similar movements in other parts of China. That's why they censor all news about ongoing protests, arrest any leaders they can identify and send in riot police to stop the protesters reaching any place where they can get more attention. But those measures aren't effective at stopping a protest that has already started, they can only prevent it from spreading. In the end, some actual change is necessary to convince protesters that there's no need to keep protesting and they can go home. So basically the central government is criticizing the Hong Kong government for not acquiescing to the demands quickly enough and letting the protests grow to this scale, where they can't be kept out of the news anymore.

kevin_b_er 7y ago

HK still represents a Chinese world where the CPC and Xi do not have absolute rule. It represents a Chinese world that has or had some democracy where the people could petition government for redress of grievances and where people can choose their own representatives. This cannot be permitted. They cannot have the Chinese people of mainland China think they have the freedom to have any public redress of grievances with the CPC. So we will likely see this violently crushed, because this is all about perception. As the protests continue, there's a greater and greater likelyhood CPC propaganda can no longer distort the truth. So CPC must put it down. And since HK is no longer as financially relevant and the UK is astoundingly weak by comparison to 50 years ago, we will likely see Basic Law die.