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The coverage on FaceApp and the way they talk about it is ridiculous. When it comes for instance to Snapchat's numbers, the coverage is about the success of the
by stunt 7y ago
The coverage on FaceApp and the way they talk about it is ridiculous. When it comes for instance to Snapchat's numbers, the coverage is about the success of the company.
How is FaceApp different than all other apps and social networks that are storing all your photos with location and tags to your friends except that FaceApp is a Russian company?
I'm not defending FaceApp. I don't use social networks either for the same reasons. But this double standards in media is ridiculous in my opinion.
- hi5eyes 7y agothe only real difference between snap and faceapp is the media gave faceapp the russian tie in so now they're using it as that combined with federal investigation titles [1] snap is a scarier but most people dont care since its so ingrained into their lives... for whatever reason I never understood.. but my friends used love it even while I warned them how stupid it was so use snap in the first place if you cared about privacy what happens to snap.inc/your data when the userbase drops off completely.. inevitably like every other social media.. 1. https://techcrunch.com/2019/07/17/faceapp-gets-federal-attention-as-sen-schumer-raises-alarm-on-data-use/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/07/17/faceapp-gets-federal-atten...
- marpstar 7y agoOn top of that, FaceApp doesn't request Geolocation permissions while Snap integrates a map of friends in the app itself.
- jmkni 7y agoThe app doesn't request Geolocation data, but might the geographic info still be in the EXIF data in the photo that gets uploaded?
- bengotow 7y agoYep this is correct, location history can be scraped from the EXIF data in the photos in your camera roll.
- cronix 7y agoDoes Apple allow disabling the exif feature in the camera app like Android?
- stunt 7y agoYou can disable Location Service for the Camera app in the Privacy Settings.
- r00fus 7y agohttps://www.igeeksblog.com/disable-geotagging-for-photos-on-iphone-ipad/ https://www.igeeksblog.com/disable-geotagging-for-photos-on-... Looks like it removes geotagging en-masse but not per-application. You can also remove EXIF from specific photos but that's tedious.
- hi5eyes 7y agotheres shortcuts to strip exif from photos en-masse
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- Zmetta 7y agoOne is owned and operated in a country of authoritarian-level data-collection and massive public propaganda and the other is owned and operated by a company in Russian which isn't any better but still determines the media narrative.
- IloveHN84 7y agoYou forgot MSQRD owned by Facebook. It's a US company, therefore their data can be requested by FBI, NSA and others upon request without opposition.
- resters 7y agoExactly. The lack of warrant canaries shows us just how cozy the relationship is.
- ehsankia 7y agoEspecially after Cambridge Analytica, it honestly wouldn't be too much of a tin foil hat theory to imagine a world where state actors such as the IRA would come up with a viral app like this to scoop up data and influence the elections again.
- 7Z7 7y ago>state actors such as the IRA Can you elaborate on the IRA == state actor part?
- umanwizard 7y agohttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency
- 7Z7 7y agoThank you
- 7y ago
- godelski 7y agoOne people brush off and another people don't. So if you want to teach people about how and why data is important it is easier to do so when using Russia an an example (assuming you're a Westerner). Most people still have a fair amount of trust in US companies and don't believe they would abuse their power. Call it tribalism it whatever, but that's how it is. But to us in tech it's pretty obvious that even if Snapchat or Facebook never abused their power (lol, I know) that that kind of data is likely to end up in the hands of the Russians anyway. So it's just easier to talk about data when the big bad wolf abuses it. But I'd also use this opportunity to talk to others about the parallels that we have here and the responsibility of the tech giants.
- pbhjpbhj 7y agoIt's because Russia has been demonised in USA's propaganda over decades. They're selling trying to do the same with China now, except it's more for direct commercial reasons than to protect the ideal of Capitalism as it was before. I grew up getting a lot of "evil commies" messages in US American media and I'm not even in USA (I'm from UK).
- eitland 7y ago> I grew up getting a lot of "evil commies" messages in US American media and I'm not even in USA There's more than one reason for that, here is one that might be easy to overlook when someone is critizising USA with good reason: America is not perfect but as a citizen and compared to the bad old commies it was mostly really good. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago
- cryptozeus 7y agoSide point, I also don’t use social media app but at this point it doesn’t matter. 3 of my friends sent me my faceapp photo. No way to escape this.
- cdolan 7y agoI had this same problem. Except it was my wife who uploaded my face. How do I receive compensation!? /s
- ALittleLight 7y agoIf you wanted to escape it you could use something like This Person Does Not Exist and submit large numbers of fake people with your name to the app such that nobody would be able to tell which was the real you. Of course, to do it well, you'd probably want to start doing it before anybody submitted your real photo, then just submit a fake picture at random intervals for perpetuity. An alternate variation on this is flooding them with fake people and fake names to make their real database worth less.
- pbhjpbhj 7y agoSurely that's not going to work. You'd create many fake people linked to your name, but your own face will still be one. You'd have to create enough "face hashes" to DDoS a recognition computer .. seems unlikely.
- rjzzleep 7y agoWell, maybe it should be the other way round. You should link many faces of yourself to the people that legally exist but have no social media presence but are registered and exist. You can find those kinds of people in countries like Germany
- lowercased 7y agogenerally, they're also going to have your connection/friend data as well. You might submit 300 "ALittleLight" name/face combos, but only one ALittleLight will be connected to a similar group of people you know who know each other to some degree.
- icoder 7y agoTwo wrongs don't make a right. Your point may be valid that Snapchat deserves the same or even more criticism, but then perhaps the fact that they don't is the real problem.
- godelski 7y agoMore importantly we have legislation and public support that has been pushing companies like Snapchat to change. Such as they say they delete photos now. As an American I think I have some influence in Europe, but at minimum I think Europe has similar values to me. With their democratic processes I believe things can change and will, same with America. Look how GDPR changed things. Conversely in Russia and China they are authoritarian and the cultures don't tend to speak out as much about these things. Hence where they are at. FaceApp might just use my data for advertising, but I don't know that. It's harder to find out post hoc. There is no legal means for me to ensure things are done properly. There is no way for me to push for data to be used in better ways. There is no accountability. And that's the big difference. Accountability.
- AndrewKemendo 7y agoSnapchat already had their "end of the world" moment when they were brand new around underage sexting. It's just what happens when you're a new hot social app.
- jklinger410 7y ago>except that FaceApp is a Russian company? Well, I mean, nothing. Except that FaceApp is a Russian company. What was different about Huawei? Except that it was a Chinese company. And here's the thing, I don't even necessarily disagree with the worry around these foreign companies. They are outside of our jurisdiction and these countries have been known to use companies on the behalf of their governments to perform intelligence/psy-op activities. Why is this different than the US? It's not. But it's like nuclear weapons, yeah? We are the only ones who can be trusted with them. Therein lies the rub, as they say. Either you buy into post WWI America runs the world and our military prevented an apocalypse and got every American a car and garage by rigging the world markets and protecting the world with our Navy and every country has to go through us to technologically advance, or you are un-American? Tongue and cheek here, but this is seriously the proposition. This is the exact decision that was made and accelerated by our military during wartime. This is our playbook.
- jbverschoor 7y agoThe Cold War never ended
- johnchristopher 7y agoYes, it did. What's happening now is going on under a different set of paradigms. If you approach today's geopolitics or military considerations with a cold war mindset you will miss things out. Globalization has happened and that changes a lot of things.
- mike_ivanov 7y ago"Globalization has happened and that changes a lot of things." This is exactly what they said before WWI.
- mike_ivanov 7y agoContext (please read): https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/12/29/the-world-today-looks-ominously-like-it-did-before-world-war-i/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/12/29/the-w... This specific way FaceApp resonates in mass and social media is quite telling.
- yogthos 7y agoTurns out that as long as the all powerful companies spying on you are located in California then it's totally fine.
- adventured 7y agoThen why have US tech companies like Facebook taken so much flack in the past year for privacy issues? The fact that that has been the case, contradicts your underlying point. Further, on a personal level it likely depends on where you're located. As an American, it matters to me whether the company doing the spying is located in California or Russia. If you're Russian, you might particularly care if the company in question is in California instead of Russia. Russia is a hyper regressive, anti liberal, anti democratic, low human rights, dictatorship. My interests are particularly not served by allowing companies from Russia to spy on me.
- blaser-waffle 7y ago> Russia is a hyper regressive, anti liberal, anti democratic, low human rights, dictatorship. My interests are particularly not served by allowing companies from Russia to spy on me. Russia is also on the other side of the globe, has a GDP that is less than Italy (despite having way more people and land), and is, essentially, irrelevant outside of online trolling and Agi-Prop. Meanwhile the person who is going to kick down my door is a US citizen, as is the person who is going to vote to take away my healthcare.
- mtranzambetti 7y agoRelated: https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2019/7/17/20698271/faceapp-privacy-panic-russia-old-face-filter-app https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2019/7/17/20698271/faceapp-pri... "The panic about FaceApp’s old-person filter isn’t wrong, exactly. It’s just tinged with xenophobia and devoid of context."
- anomaloustho 7y agoComing from a person that did not take issue with the “Russia aspect” - The only part that sticks out to me is when the article implied you have to give it access to all of your photos. In my brief usage of other social media apps like Snapchat, Instagram, and Facebook. Each photo you decide to share is opt-in. The article also mentioned they run a job to continuously check in. Not sure if that’s to capture current GPS info, or to continually grab new photos. That seems a bit overzealous for what the app reportedly does. (editing pictures of your face)
- dgritsko 7y ago"Each photo you decide to share is opt-in" - I don't think that is really how permissions work on either Android or iOS. Once you have given the app permissions to access your photos, they can do so - with or without the user explicitly choosing which ones (please, someone correct me if I am wrong on this). So Snapchat/Instagram/Facebook might actually be doing stuff with your photos "behind the scenes", and you wouldn't necessarily know it (assuming you granted the "Photos" permission in the first place).
- ivanhoe 7y agoalso, you don't have to give it access to your photos... it works perfectly fine with just camera access
- oarabbus_ 7y ago>How is FaceApp different than all other apps and social networks that are storing all your photos with location and tags to your friends except that FaceApp is a Russian company? This is a pretty nonsense statement to make. Maybe the fact they are Russian.
- j4kp07 7y ago> Maybe the fact they are Russian. Xenophobic much?
- spraak 7y agoWhy is it a non sense statement, and why does it matter that they are Russian, when US companies are already known to do the same?
- mhermher 7y agoRussia is uniquely evil. Clapper told me it's in their DNA.
- kofejnik 7y agoit's 13 August 1961, you are in Berlin, and they are starting to build the wall. Where would you rather be, in the West, or in the East? This is why it matters that they are Russian
- spraak 7y agoBut it's not 1961 anymore. The East and the West have very closely converged in terms of privacy violations.
- dang 7y agoPlease keep nationalistic flamebait off this site. It leads to nationalistic flamewars and we don't want those here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- ars 7y ago> How is FaceApp different than all other apps and social networks that are storing all your photos with location and tags to your friends Do the other social networks give themselves permission to display your photo anywhere they want? Or only via the channels you specifically request (i.e. to your friends)? That seems like a huge difference to me.
- acchow 7y agoThe issue is with the terms: “You grant FaceApp a perpetual, irrevocable, nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide, fully-paid, transferable sub-licensable license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, publicly perform and display your User Content and any name, username or likeness provided in connection with your User Content in all media formats and channels now known or later developed, without compensation to you.” Social media networks like Facebook and Snapchat aren't like this.
- blaser-waffle 7y ago> Social media networks like Facebook and Snapchat aren't like this. Correct. They're not that terse with their terms. You'd have to read so. many. paragraphs. to figure out they're doing the same thing.
- ivanhoe 7y agoBut they are, Facebook has exactly the same rights to use any photo you upload royalty free or to share it with the 3rd parties as they find suitable... perhaps the legal wording is a bit different, but the rights are the same...
- kickopotomus 7y agoInstagram's terms of use have essentially the same clause: > We do not claim ownership of your content that you post on or through the Service. Instead, when you share, post, or upload content that is covered by intellectual property rights (like photos or videos) on or in connection with our Service, you hereby grant to us a non-exclusive, royalty-free, transferable, sub-licensable, worldwide license to host, use, distribute, modify, run, copy, publicly perform or display, translate, and create derivative works of your content (consistent with your privacy and application settings).[1] [1]: https://help.instagram.com/581066165581870 https://help.instagram.com/581066165581870
- scarface74 7y agoI denied FaceApp access to my photo library and all apps are denied access to “Background refresh”. I didn’t post pictures directly to any social media. So exactly what does FaceApp have access to besides a few selfies? I was more interested in seeing how good the machine learning was than anything else. It was pretty good, it recognized different angles, it didn’t try to put glasses on my face when I was already wearing glasses and didn’t try to add a beard when it saw I had one.
- jammygit 7y agoI’m imagining a wave of fake accounts using people’s names and faces happening, maybe even fraudulent blog posts come next election with legal indemnity. They own the name and face after all, no? Same as putting you in a billboard