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VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance
- lovelycarboxyl 7y agoUnrelated, but does anyone know how many electric cars have an autonomy of more than 700km, while also charging fully in less than one hour? Is that even possible with the current technology?
- baybal2 7y agoGet a motorcycle in the class of Honda Goldwing, convert it to electric power, and replace all of the luxury fuffle on it with batteries. I don't think this will match your expectations, but this is the best take on what you want I can think of
- taurath 7y agoElectric motorcycles aren’t a thing I knew I needed yet (despite scooters existing)... I imagine they’d be quite fun
- baybal2 7y agoI'm pointing to the use of motorcycle because of battery mass ratio. At some point, you can not improving the range any more by adding more batteries because any gain will be eaten by more rolling resistance. At some point you will arrive to the point when your vehicle starts to resemble a battery stack with two wheels.
- Tade0 7y agoCurrently - none that I know of. Tesla is currently approaching that number with 592km(370 miles) of range. As for charging _fully_ - that's rarely done in practice, because over 80% li-ion batteries charge much slower. Bjørn Nyland recently beat the record[0] for longest distance travelled in an EV in 24h (2781km) by stopping to charge from 10% to 50%, because only then he could use the full power of superchargers. [0] https://youtu.be/R-2Yj-uVeB0 https://youtu.be/R-2Yj-uVeB0
- jillesvangurp 7y agoMost of the more expensive EVs come pretty close to that and seem to be competing on getting the numbers better there. E.g. I think Tesla is planning to break the 400 mile barrier pretty soon. 300 mile is pretty normal already. Most EVs charge pretty quickly to about 80%. 20 minutes to half an hour gets you plenty of range. Mostly EV owners don't charge to 100% unless they are at home or doing some overnight stop. I think most normal drivers on a cross country trip need bathroom breaks, lunch/snacks/drinks, leg stretching etc. every 2-3 hours. Great opportunity to plug in and recharge enough for another 2-3 hours. Range anxiety is mostly irrational and mostly a non technical problem as your car probably has more endurance than you.
- dmix 7y agoHave EV companies completely abandoned the swappable battery idea? I always thought thatd be the endgame. Some standardized battery design where you roll up on top of a station and it swaps the battery underneath the car. Or maybe this is something your car does for you before arriving. Which eliminates the amount of dead time tens of thousands cars will need to spend while using up expensive property in cities while charging.
- jillesvangurp 7y agoI don't think that ever was a serious plan.
- Invictus0 7y agoThe company doing this went bankrupt. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Place_(company) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Place_(company)
- kszxgz 7y agoNIO is currently building a network of battery swap stations in China. https://cleantechnica.com/2018/11/24/nio-builds-battery-swap-stations-in-china-for-its-electric-vehicles/ https://cleantechnica.com/2018/11/24/nio-builds-battery-swap...
- ml_basics 7y ago"Argo AI’s focus remains on delivering a SAE Level 4-capable SDS to be applied for ridesharing and goods delivery services in dense urban areas." Perhaps naive question from an outsider to the AV world: what does "SAE Level 4-capable SDS" mean?
- Judgmentality 7y agoGeo-fenced with some limitations (ie unable to drive in severe weather). So it'll only work in some areas, and will likely have further limitations like avoiding alleys, roundabouts, and whatever else it finds difficult but it not necessary to navigate from point A to point B. All of this is fully driverless and you can sleep in the back of the car. SDS stands for Self-Driving Service. SAE stands for Society of Automotive Engineers. https://www.sae.org/news/press-room/2018/12/sae-international-releases-updated-visual-chart-for-its-%E2%80%9Clevels-of-driving-automation%E2%80%9D-standard-for-self-driving-vehicles https://www.sae.org/news/press-room/2018/12/sae-internationa...
- simfoo 7y agoSDS usually stands for self-driving system. Argo provides only the sensors+compute HW+software that can be integrated into different cars from different manufacturers
- da_chicken 7y agohttp://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/blog/2013/12/sae-levels-driving-automation http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/blog/2013/12/sae-levels-driving... It's a fairly high level of automation. One step below total automation. That is, the system controls all aspects of driving, but there are still situations where it will ask the human driver to take over. However, even if the human doesn't actually take over, the system can still handle it. It's basically capable of dealing with an odd situation, but it's not confident about it.
- mac01021 7y agoThese definitions are rather vague. If the car is able to function even when noone responds to the request for intervention, how is that different from level five? Does it mean that it safely pulls over, where level 3 would just drop control of the vehicle in a dangerous scenario? Also, does level 5 entail general intelligence, in order to do things like follow the instructions of a traffic cop or parking attendant?
- boxcardavin 7y agoThis is bizarre, I’m in non-car autonomy but I talk daily with car autonomy folks. Everyone has been expecting a consolidation of companies through acquisitions but drive.ai showed us that it’s probably not going to happen. At The Information mobility event last month one of the SoftBank fellas said that autonomous cars will be ‘won’ by those who can outspend everyone else. Looks like backing up billions with more billions might be the playbook for now.
- tjoff 7y agoI would have thought that Uber had proved that you can't just throw money at the problem.
- choppaface 7y agoUber proved it's possible to burn a lot of money on a team that is ineffective due to needless infighting and excessive internal competition.
- amelius 7y agoIn other words, you can't just throw money at the problem.
- Hydraulix989 7y agoIt's R&D and depends on a lot of new innovation to be solved (new ASIC hardware for real-time inferencing, new ML model types -- potentially a new breakthrough even).
- choppaface 7y agoThere are some things that money can accelerate and some things it can't. Building a balanced, effective team is not a clear linear function of money.
- saalweachter 7y agoYou need more of a targeted money laser than a money shotgun.
- choppaface 7y agoArgo also released a relatively massive 250GB dataset recently: https://www.argoverse.org/ https://www.argoverse.org/ The problem of Perception has a long road ahead at any of these companies and Argo is taking a very long position with this funding round. The headcount growth is rather worrisome but other than Aptiv there aren't many fleets that span multiple continents.
- jfoster 7y agoIs spanning multiple continents a good thing?
- pgeorgi 7y agoIt provides awareness to differences in rules, signs and road markings which may help expand.
- dasbo 7y agoIt's best not to think in GB terms when talking about AD datasets. E.g., when you record raw data of a multisensor setup (lidars, radars, cameras), the data rate can reach 10+ TB/h. Camera-only datasets are in comparison much smaller. Taken out of the argoverse dataset description: - One dataset with 3D tracking annotations for 113 scenes - One dataset with 327,793 interesting vehicle trajectories extracted from over 1000 driving hours - Two high-definition (HD) maps with lane centerlines, traffic direction, ground height, and more 1000 driving hours is ok'ish for research (imho).
- RaceWon 7y agoGod I wish I could be alive 436 years from today; when the self-driving cars might actually be able to give me a run for my money.
- dasloop 7y agoSomeone in the year 1583: God I wish I could be alive 436 years from today to write a post in HN about self-driving cars :)
- dmix 7y agoFrom a self driving car
- RaceWon 7y ago> From a self driving car Cue up the [0] Porsche 919 vid to show what a human can do in a car... [0] https://youtu.be/KsLi7HgSuhI https://youtu.be/KsLi7HgSuhI
- clouddrover 7y agoAnd the next best, the fully electric Volkswagen ID.R: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRCiGABQupA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRCiGABQupA
- Tempest1981 7y agoStanford team: https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/31/18285824/self-driving-car-race-car-stanford-research https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/31/18285824/self-driving-car...
- lapnitnelav 7y agoThe performance is impressive no doubt but that high pitched noise is really unsettling.
- dmix 7y ago
- zerr 7y agoPittsburgh - I guess they are after Uber ATG talent.
- Hydraulix989 7y agoYou mean Carnegie Mellon University talent.
- pmorici 7y agoIncumbent car companies seem to have recently realized they are about ~2 years away from being put out of business by Tesla. In the past two weeks we've seen the CEO of BMW step down with speculation it was over BMW's botched EV strategy. Now the VW / Ford alliance on electric and self driving.
- trilila 7y agoGerman car makers are an enormous source of pollution in Europe. I am shocked anyone wants to buy their cars anymore after the emissions scandal.
- hodder 7y agoThey clearly are at no risk of being put out of business by Tesla. All electric car sales are still only a fraction of ICE and given Tesla’s stagnant sales nuns it looks like it will remain that way for a while. Tech early adopters have bought and most others aren’t interested until the price falls significantly and the reliability becomes something like a civic.
- pmorici 7y agoTesla's sales and sales of EV's in general look like they are in the early days of an exponential growth curve. They have been at around 100% or better YOY sales growth for the past 3 quarters. At that rate it will only take a few years to go from niche to dominating the market. Car sales in general are flat or in slight decline and Tesla is seeing 100% YOY growth. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that if that trend continues for a couple more years some of the traditional auto makers are going to go out of business. The real nail in the coffin though will be if Tesla crack full self driving by 2021 which is what they stated they think they will do.
- yyyk 7y agoEven if the entire world now wanted Teslas and nothing but Teslas, the manufacturing ability is just not there. Inevitably the vast majority of the market would go to other companies. That was always the relation between Tesla and established car companies: Tesla has better EV technology, but others had the better manufacturing ability by far. In theory, this should favour the established companies - Tesla doesn't patent their EV advances, and they aren't the only EV player anyway. It should be easier to add EV tech to existing chain than to establish an entire new supply chain. But every established company is very invested in ICE, and has large internal lobbies. It's interesting to see who gets the better of this - the established car companies' objective advantage or their internal political disadvantage. The recent moves might suggest these established companies are getting their internal politics in order, which should allow them to do EV better.
- trilila 7y agoGiven that VW was caught cheating emissions on a global scale, and far worse than other carmakers, i find it surprising that anyone on hackernews would consider buying their cars.
- cj 7y agoIf the VW brand is too far below hacker news standards, what car brand isn’t? (Excluding Tesla, and other brands priced 40k+)
- bagacrap 7y agoI can't think of a reason folks here would hate on Toyota, Honda, etc: companies that build practical, efficient, cheap cars, have well regarded engineering, and have met with incredible economic success. False equivalency to say all car brands are like VW, which lied and cheated about emissions whilst marketing their product as Clean Diesel, and left their own customers and everyone else on planet Earth holding the bag.
- trilila 7y agoMy thoughts exactly.
- Marsymars 7y agoI buy goods/services based on the future expected utility and effects of my purchase. If VW has a vehicle that's otherwise the best option for me to purchase, I'm not clear that there's any benefit to me, based on their past actions, opting to go with the next best alternative instead.
- nothrabannosir 7y agoBoycotts come at the cost of the participants but to the benefit of the greater good. You’re being asked not to cross the picket line. If you don’t believe VWs transgressions were enough to warrant a boycott, that’s a fair point to make. I’m not in the car market so I don’t even have an opinion on it, myself. But to the parent’s credit: they never meant to talk about you benefitting personally. It’s about teaching car makers that actions have consequences. For the greater good. Put another way: how bad does VW have to mess up before you consider more than your personal benefit?
- InTheArena 7y agoIf this trend continues, I really expect there to be a massive bidding war for Tesla before too long. When bears/shorts on tesla Complain about Tesla’s market cap, they seem to always forget the fact that Tesla is well ahead of any of these players in terms of both deployed hardware and data collection. This merger and investment brings Argo’s valuation up to you around $8 billion.
- hocuspocus 7y ago> the fact that Tesla is well ahead of any of these players in terms of both deployed hardware and data collection. This is far from being obvious given that the competition is collecting data with much more advanced sensors.
- simbas 7y agoThey do?
- prklmn 7y agoTesla is ahead in many regards but they are too debt laden for a buyout at this point. A larger player would be smart to wait until the economy turns and Tesla can no longer meet debt obligations, then buy them out of bankruptcy.
- JumpCrisscross 7y ago> they are too debt laden for a buyout at this point Enterprise value is indifferent to capital structure. A leverage-sensitive buyer would buy out the high-yielding debt in addition to the equity. Purchasing out of bankruptcy is riskier, in many levels, compared with a negotiated sale.
- prklmn 7y agoWhy do you say purchasing out of bankruptcy riskier? That's counter-intuitive for me.
- 7y ago
- NoblePublius 7y agoWhere is the anti trust investigation into these two ICE competitors teaming up to compete against Tesla?
- asaph 7y agoWhat aspect of two competitors cooperating to compete against a third in a market where there are no clear winners yet, merits an antitrust investigation?
- Hydraulix989 7y agoThere are already several other big SDC alliances like Honda / GM Cruise, Toyota / Uber, and even the three-way Nissan-Renault / Jaguar Landrover / Waymo.
- NoblePublius 7y agoIt’s almost as if the regulators are captive to the these interests at the expense of the consumer .