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Anomalous CPU utilization on Windows build node caused by ads

255 points by luu 7y ago

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
jchw 7y ago
The duality of modern Microsoft is absolutely astounding. How they can simultaneously do incredible things for Github, and open source Windows components, while continuing to not fix the most user hostile Windows ever produced, is completely bonkers. My litmus test for whether Windows is finally fixed is whether of not it’s possible to install it without Candy Crush, but unfortunately without killing the network and applying a registry patch as far as I know it can’t be done.
- jimbob45 7y ago
  Seems to me that DirectX is the last remaining barrier to finally getting the majority of the Windows user base to migrate to Linux. That and driver support.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
    You are ludicrously incorrect, just as everyone for the past 2 decades has been when they have predicted the year of the Linux Desktop. This trend will continue until Linux Desktop people stop underestimating what users actually do with computers.
    - jenscow 7y ago
      Nothing. They moved to mobile instead
      - freehunter 7y ago
        This is the correct answer. Even Ubuntu's famous bug #1 (Microsoft has a majority marketshare) was closed many years ago [1] as PC operating systems have declined in importance. Steve Jobs's comment about PCs being "trucks" has also come true. Almost all leisure computing has moved either to mobile devices (phones and tablets) and/or to the web (which overlaps mobile devices), making the OS less and less important. Gaming is about the only leisure activity left where desktop OS matters, but that's a relatively small marketshare comparatively. [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834
        AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
        And yet, Linux Desktop still is not dominant, even only counting desktop computers. Hmm...
        snazz 7y ago
        As people use desktops less and less, they care less and less about what runs on them.
        belltaco 7y ago
        That narrative of the post-PC world collapsed when the sales of tablets like iPads collapsed.
        freehunter 7y ago
        Couple of things: 1) Tablets aren't the only "post-PC" platform. Most of the leisure computing is done on smartphones when it would have been done on a laptop or desktop 5-10 years ago. 2) If we're considering tablets to be PC replacements, we should expect their sales trends to be along the lines of PC sales. People keep PCs a lot longer than smartphones, so we should expect people to keep their iPads a lot longer than their phones too. 3) Tablet sales have absolutely not collapsed [1] [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/272595/global-shipments-forecast-for-tablets-laptops-and-desktop-pcs/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/272595/global-shipments-...
        Razengan 7y ago
        From what I could tell, iPads are the only tablets still going strong and getting even better. It’s Google who threw in the towel on tablets. See the recently revealed iPadOS: https://www.apple.com/ipados/ipados-preview/ https://www.apple.com/ipados/ipados-preview/
    - LarryDarrell 7y ago
      Play XBill and write manifestos with LaTeX?
    - iforgotpassword 7y ago
      > This trend will continue until Linux Desktop people stop underestimating what users actually do with computers. Nothing. They use apps on their Linux phones, or happily use any OS that runs a browser since everything is web based today. Oh and for gaming there is consoles of course, which crushes the PC gaming market in pretty much any discipline. The only people remaining dependent on desktops (or laptops) will be office workers, and I'm pretty sure they don't care about DirectX so much, so replacing those with Linux seems very doable, it's just the question if companies care enough. Last I checked, even office 365 worked on Linux.
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
        > They use apps on their Linux phones Somehow I doubt Android is what Linux Desktop evangelists imagined. At best this is moving the goal posts significantly. > or happily use any OS that runs a browser since everything is web based today. Apparently that doesn't include Linux, despite it being free, not having invasive telemetry, and not having ads in the application launcher. > Oh and for gaming there is consoles of course, which crushes the PC gaming market in pretty much any discipline. And yet Steam is a ridiculously huge money maker and people are buying more PC games than ever. > The only people remaining dependent on desktops (or laptops) will be office workers Incorrect, but let's entertain your fantasies anyway. > I'm pretty sure they don't care about DirectX so much, so replacing those with Linux seems very doable Then why hasn't it happened? You think companies like paying licensing fees to Microsoft? Consider that there are good reasons people do not use Linux Desktop instead of just assuming they're all idiots.
        iforgotpassword 7y ago
        > Somehow I doubt Android is what Linux Desktop evangelists imagined. You must be confusing Android with a desktop OS. It's mobile so they don't fall into the desktop category at all. Which was exactly my point: they simply don't need a desktop OS anymore. > Apparently that doesn't include Linux That reads like you're looking at some statistics that show that 0% of desktop users run Linux. Care pointing to it? > And yet Steam is a ridiculously huge money maker and people are buying more PC games than ever. So? It's completely overshadowed by the console market, not even including mobile games here. > Then why hasn't it happened? You think companies like paying licensing fees to Microsoft? You're asking why it hasn't happened yet in reply to me using future tense. But let's put aside that pretty much everything you said was deliberately besides the point. Why it hasn't happened yet is pretty simple. Companies weigh the cost of switching vs. The cost of just keep paying for Windows (so no changes, no initial setup cost, no training, ...). That's gonna be cheaper for quite some time but eventually everything will be in the cloud so there is less and less reason to keep up a huge and complicated windows domain network with software rollout and other brain damage. You might keep a basic AD in place for user management that the web services talk to but that's it. Funnily enough my current and previous employer is still on win 7 because of the frequent messups you read about regarding 10, and how even in a corporate environment it's near impossible to disable all telemetry. I'm curious what they'll do at 7's EOL. As for the average home desktop user, you're not seriously expecting your mom to go ahead and download and install Ubuntu are you? As long as most OEMs still exclusively sell machines with Windows preinstalled, there really shouldn't be anything surprising about the fact that most people use Windows. We already see some of the larger ones offering machines with Linux though, and with the desktop keeping to lose relevance and everything moving to the web I wouldn't be surprised to see this getting more prevalent over the next decade if Microsoft doesn't get their act together regarding Windows. It currently looks like they're cutting costs in that department, normal users seem to get the beta versions now so they could cut down their QA.
    - bediger4000 7y ago
      > people stop underestimating what users actually do with computers Oddly, this is the factor that underlies most of my personal beefs with both Microsoft and Apple. What's wrong with my wifi? At least I can look in journalctl on linux. My laptop doesn't have enough screenspace - I can use i3wm on linux. I want double-click to include '*' and '/' and ':' in a "word", hey I can change xterm config. I want left-mouse-button to start a selection, and right to continue it, and middle-mouse-button to paste, and I want F2 to paste, X11 can do that. I don't want the focused window to pop to the top? Can do on Linux. There's so many things that Windows and MacOS make the decisions for you and make it very, very hard to do otherwise that really cramp your style on a basic level.
      - zamalek 7y ago
        Most people don't do these things on their computers: > journalctl, i3wm, xterm config, non-standard mouse configurations The versatility of Linux is frequently touted as its best feature, a feature that 99% of humans don't care about, and would confuse that same 99% of people. People are used to what Microsoft and Apple imposed on them. For better, or for worse, they honestly couldn't give a damn about being able to do stuff like that. Their style is the Apple style, or the Microsoft style and, most importantly, the no-terminal style. Linux is the perfect desktop for developers. It hits all the wrong checkboxes for end-users.
        bediger4000 7y ago
        Agreed, most people don't do much more than open "Edge" and "Outlook", some people Use "Word", a few people use "Excel" because "Word" doesn't do tables very well. The point being two-fold: 1. The argument that a Linux desktop won't fly because people do so damn many things that a Linux desktop just can't do is false. 2. Windows and Mac really push you hard into a single style of interacting with your computer.
        AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
        > a feature that 99% of humans don't care about, and would confuse that same 99% of people. This is precisely the kind of condescending bullshit I'm talking about. > People are used to what Microsoft and Apple imposed on them. A convenient fantasy for Linux Desktop evangelists to soothe their egos.
  - jchw 7y ago
    Along with everything else that could be said about this, I don’t think that is even a major problem. Everything I’ve tried to run on Steam Proton runs at 60 FPS with highest settings. My guess is that Vulkan has enabled much better Direct3D emulation. (Of course, I don’t play much and I didn’t bother to benchmark. It probably is still worse than native in many cases. But hey, glitch free and fast enough for me. Was very surprised to see games with Denuvo running great.)
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- api 7y ago
  It mirrors the new structure of the industry: developers are a totally separate market from users and generally get paid to work on software whose purpose is to exploit and "farm" users through surveillance capitalism and AI/ML powered soft mind control. In other words developers (and their employers) are customers while users are a product or resource to be exploited.
- umvi 7y ago
  > The duality of modern Microsoft is absolutely astounding. See: http://bonkersworld.net/organizational-charts http://bonkersworld.net/organizational-charts I don't work there, but I've heard Microsoft is more like a federation of organizations than one giant consistent, cohesive team.
  - agumonkey 7y ago
    So are most big corps methinks. Here about Nokia death caused by internal tension between depts ? Sony sub-units more or less completely independent (selling cd and cd-burners).
    - panpanna 7y ago
      Sony is NOT like that. For example their phones have extremely complicated DRM that makes everything slower (and reserves tons of memory and even affects things like camera) because of their movie and music business.
  - aNoob7000 7y ago
    Oh man, I couldn't stop giggling looking at the Microsoft and Oracle org charts. Those two pictures capture those two organizations completely.
  - jchw 7y ago
    Because its buried far down and I can’t edit my post, I want to hijack this post to point out that it turns out in newer builds MS has actually removed the Candy Crush auto installation. https://mspoweruser.com/rejoice-windows-users-candy-crush-is-finally-gone/ https://mspoweruser.com/rejoice-windows-users-candy-crush-is... I didn’t notice because my Windows 10 image is out of date, presumably getting the latest ISO would fix the problem.
    - withinrafael 7y ago
      Nope. This feature bootstraps from the web and it's still in the latest update post-fresh install. This article is incorrect.
- zarathustraa 7y ago
  > My litmus test for whether Windows is finally fixed is whether of not it’s possible to install it without Candy Crush https://mspoweruser.com/rejoice-windows-users-candy-crush-is-finally-gone/ https://mspoweruser.com/rejoice-windows-users-candy-crush-is... What's you new litmus test?
  - criley2 7y ago
    Funny that you're being downvoted for presenting evidence contradicting the OP. The groupthink in this thread is overwhelming.
  - Apaec 7y ago
    It's still an stupid mistake MS made that could be once back. That's enough for me for staying away from the MS tax for life.
  - jchw 7y ago
    Thank you. I installed Windows as early as last month (in a VM) and still got Candy Crush. This is probably because my ISO image was not fully up to date. I was not aware of this change but it is greatly appreciated. I can no longer modify the parent comment but if dang or anyone else with permission wants to please feel free. No need for a new litmus test, though solving the problem of Edge opening MSN ads after updating would probably buy some goodwill.
    - jchw 7y ago
      Correction: It still happens with a completely fresh install, just like withinrafael claims. https://i.imgur.com/zDWo4Hb.png https://i.imgur.com/zDWo4Hb.png Very sad.
  - fortran77 7y ago
    I just checked my Windows 10 machine that I use every day for 8 hours to get real work done. There's no "Candy Crush" on it.
  - fortran77 7y ago
    Mac OSX comes with chess. What's the difference?
- freehunter 7y ago
  Honest question and I am absolutely not starting an argument, but what have they done for Github? All I'm aware of is making private repos free, but I haven't seen anything beyond that. I must be out of the loop.
  - cjaybo 7y ago
    The latest development that I'm aware of is the package registry they are launching: https://github.com/features/package-registry https://github.com/features/package-registry
  - jchw 7y ago
    I have no idea how much they had to do with Github’s recent developments, but: - Github Sponsors with donation matching for some limited time period - Github Pro which based on browsing user profiles a surprising amount of folks have bought into - Github Package Repositories. - Github Pipelines. Generally I have been waiting for Github to start sucking but it has only gotten better imo. I have been a pretty big Gitlab fanboy for a while so it’s weird to harp on Github’s progress but they’ve done a good job flipping the script.
    - joeblubaugh 7y ago
      Their PR UIs have recently gotten some much-needed improvements too.
      - kzrdude 7y ago
        We finally got a dual sided "more context" button for diffs, that was so annoying when that was missing (and a declined feature request when I asked).
    - paavohtl 7y ago
      > - Github Pro which based on browsing user profiles a surprising amount of folks have bought into Not a statement either way, but AFAIK everyone who has the Student Pack[1] gets the PRO badge. I have it and I haven't spent a penny on GitHub (though my employer has). [1] https://education.github.com/pack https://education.github.com/pack
- marcosdumay 7y ago
  > How they can simultaneously do incredible things for Github, and open source Windows components, while continuing to not fix the most user hostile Windows ever produced, is completely bonkers. Developers, developers, developers. When they stopped singing that, they nearly failed. Now they are back. It doesn't include being nice to end-users.
- kitchenkarma 7y ago
  I don't think Microsoft is doing incredible things. They are baiting the developers and just use the strategy of locking people into their constellation of spying services. Acquiring GitHub they got access to all private repositiories and insight to what other companies are doing. This is despicable.
  - urda 7y ago
    > Acquiring GitHub they got access to all private repositiories and insight to what other companies are doing. This is despicable. Spreading disinformation in 2019 is despicable itself. - Microsoft already handles data from competitors in other portions of their corporation. If it was discovered that Microsoft and / or GitHub actors were acting in bad faith with private repositories, that would immediately erode the trust of their Azure platform. - Most projects are more than just the code. It's often build toolchains, pipelines, and other specific knowledge around said code.
  - oblio 7y ago
    You're not looking at the big picture. Microsoft already has - and has had for 30 years! - the most valuable data in the world flowing through Excel and Word. Code is cool, but they could already know everything every company in the world is doing. I don't think they're abusing the trust put into them, we'd know by now. They'd also probably be blown to smithereens by governments and other corporations, through lawsuits.
- duhballs 7y ago
  this past weekend my windows 10 host installed candy crush (and other stuff) without asking me. I honestly thought I had been hacked. My other favorite thing is bing in the start menu. They changed the gpo/registry setting to disable it like twice, and didn't even have safe search enabled on it!
simplyinfinity 7y ago
The guy probably has infected machine... which is far more likely than MS runing ad farm
- silversconfused 7y ago
  We have all the proof we need that MS is running an ad farm from the base windows experience. What proof do you have that he was infected with malware beyond that?
  - lostmsu 7y ago
    And what is the proof?
  - simplyinfinity 7y ago
    Where's that proof? I also run windows 10 at home, no issues with cpu or ads. The build servers at work? Same. no IE cpu hogs, no ad farms ... That's why i think this is some malware that has gotten by, and not ad farm.
  - penagwin 7y ago
    From my other comment: I see people talking about ad farming - but this seems like for whatever reason IE was opened - and it's default home page is MSN, which has ads. Where are you getting ad farming from?
- specktr 7y ago
  Have you used windows 10 recently? I didn't realize how bad it was until I installed a fresh copy of windows 10. My backup windows machine has so many registry patches to disable the crapware that I didn't recall how bad it truly is by default.
  - simplyinfinity 7y ago
    every day on my laptop and my desktop pc. all runing without disabling the telemetry. laptop has 5hrs of battery daily, pc is runing fine. Except when i open chrome... chrome eats my ram
jtdev 7y ago
A related observation: I have between 4-8 *nix, MacOS, iOS, machines running on my home network at any given time. I’m using piHole (with base config) to block ad traffic. My blocked percentage hovers around ~10%... until I boot up my one Windows 10 machine, which spikes the blocked ad traffic to ~25% and remains that high -with zero applications running mind you - until I shutdown the machine, after which it quickly drops back ~10%. It seems that Windows 10 is essentially an ad and surveillance OS built for mining user data at this point.
- dzink 7y ago
  I’ve seen less on the Windows 10 Pro version (switched off all datasending features on install).
  - starik36 7y ago
    How does one do that?
  - parliament32 7y ago
    Enjoy having them silently re-enabled on the next update. Enterprise is the only version where you can actually disable and it'll stay disabled, because most regulated corps would consider "telemetry" a data breach.
    - blahyawnblah 7y ago
      I check them periodically and have never seen any of the settings turned back on.
      - raxxorrax 7y ago
        Me neither from updates, but I have random components of my system fail. Like the start menu search if you disable some telemetry services. It is telling that deactivating telemetry is the most significant feature of the enterprise edition.
    - 7y ago
penagwin 7y ago
I see people talking about ad farming - but this seems like for whatever reason IE was opened - and it's default home page is MSN, which has ads. Not saying that IE should've ever been opened in the first place but this doesn't sound very malicious? It is pretty sad how much resources pages like that take though.
Razengan 7y ago
Things like these is why most Mac converts never want to return to Windows. Not just the issue in TFA/post, which may seem trivial, but the overall “telemetry” debacle and experiences like jtdev’s comment. For all their claims of having reformed, Microsoft will always be that ex you don’t want to do anything with ever again. There are worse horrors than the lack of a physical Escape key, waiting on the other side of the fence.
- ctrl-j 7y ago
  I love the idea of Apple being more privacy focused, and helping us keep our data more secure. I have a touchbar macbook pro, and a headphone-jackless iphone. I just wish they wouldn't beat me with their opinionated hardware and software choices. Deprecating open gl. Eliminating 32-bit support. Forcing me to use dongle after dongle (ethernet, usb-A, HDMI, and SD card) Magic mouse has such a terrible sensor, not to mention the charging port location. I actually replaced it with a logitech because it's pretty much unusable for any precision work. Heck, I bought an eGPU enclosure recently because I had a set of nvidia cards lying around.. I can only use it in bootcamp though, because of course macs only support AMD cards... Microsoft may be an abusive ex, but apple is pretty much the same melody with different lyrics.
  - Razengan 7y ago
    Perhaps we should all keep and maintain a Linux machine in the event that Apple and Microsoft both decide to screw us over.
    - fit2rule 7y ago
      Had my Linux machine up and running somewhere since the day Linus announced it on minix-list. Still though, also have my stack of MacBooks. Apple becoming a Unix vendor lured me to their hardware, which functions as a terminal server in most regards, for my needs. For everything else, there's a fat Linux machine. Windows: just, no. Only use it if I get paid to use it.
    - michaelcampbell 7y ago
draw_down 7y ago
Say whatever you like about Apple, they don’t do this.
chvid 7y ago
Maybe don’t use windows for your build machine.
- sam_lowry_ 7y ago
  He is building JDKs for Windows, mind you.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  Presumably they're building for Windows?
jimbobimbo 7y ago
I sympathize with the pickle, but this sounds more like a case of misconfigured build node. Why Internet Explorer is even on it? If OP RDP'd to the machine and saw IE window open, wouldn't this mean that build processes are running under whatever account interactively? Why?
- FluffyKitty 7y ago
  Yeah, I have to agree here. If this is a build server, I'd argue that they should be running Windows Server and just disable the UI all together.
  - 3minus1 7y ago
    Maybe it runs selenium tests as part of the build process
skrebbel 7y ago
So the objection is that Internet Explorer has msn.com as its default homepage. This is fair, it's ridiculous and a relic from a long gone age. But so is Internet Explorer. What kind of super old Windows version were these people running? What caused IE to open out of the blue? Windows has plenty flaws but randomly open browsers is not one I'm familiar with.
- nathankunicki 7y ago
  The comment on randomly opening windows is fair (I don't see what caused it either), but this was a build VM, not a workstation - there is no reason to upgrade the browser. A more pertinent question is why are MS still shipping IE by default.
  - css 7y ago
    A lot of enterprise software from Oracle still requires Java 6 and a J2SE plug-in, which only run in IE for whatever reason.
    - Someone1234 7y ago
      > which only run in IE for whatever reason. Java Applets (and Flash) were built on the NPAPI APIs (as "plug-ins"). Historically NPAPI was supported by every major browser. NPAPI/Plug-ins are insecure/cannot be sandboxed. After Flash died, browsers quickly dropped NPAPI support (namely Opera 2016, Chrome in 2015, Firefox in 2017, Safari in 2018, etc) and Edge never supported it. Internet Explorer is the only browser with a large install-base that still supports native plugins and by extension Java Applet. It is essentially Microsoft's "compatibility" browser, a safe haven for the last remaining ActiveX/NPAPI Plug-ins/Flash/Java Applets/etc. Extensions by contrast are much more secure, as they run completely in a browser's context and can be isolated/sandbox/have permissions, but aren't suitable for running a full speed virtual machine (although Web Assembly could change that) like Java or Flash.
      - cesarb 7y ago
nailer 7y ago
As the response notes, this should be a headless Windows installation. Installing and running a GUI and IE are the results of choices made by the Tweeter.
blinkingled 7y ago
Server editions have IE/edge in locked down mode by default and all the crap removed so he should just stop running builds on client versions of Windows?
- hrktb 7y ago
  For anyone curious like me, the standard editions are 139~199$ for the license, 501~6155$ for the server editions. So the price to not get ads every update is 300$ I guess.
ufmace 7y ago
This sounds pretty bizarre. I wonder exactly what version of Windows they were using? Sounds like maybe not a server version? I've run a bunch of Windows computers, and while they have some annoying habits, I've never had one spontaneously open a IE window on me. Maybe he got malware on it somehow? Though getting malware on a server would be very disturbing. Most of my most-annoying OS features are around updates these days. Windows Update loves to just spontaneously force-reboot whenever it feels like it, too bad if you had some unsaved files or some process you intended to leave running. OS X is nicer about its OS updates, but the Mac App Store seems to like to silently download and install updates whenever it feels like it. Pretty annoying when you're trying to do something on your last few % of battery, and it decides to burn up the CPU updating XCode or iTunes or something, with no indication what it's doing or how to make it stop.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
fortran77 7y ago
The ads were because they had, for some reason, launched a browser, and the default homepage had ads. I'd like to know how this browser launched and why before I'd point fingers. Windows does have an annoying feature (which can be turned off, but it's not obvious) where apps will relaunch after reboot, perhaps that was the cause, but we don't know.
IronWolve 7y ago
Everything wants to startup and run in the background on windows, all those game update installers (steam/orgin/etc), adobe products, drivers, apps, its crazy. Not even counting all the win10 apps.
AaronFriel 7y ago
OP should install Windows Server Nano or Core to run these or use a non-interactive user session to run builds, e.g.: by running a service with a service account instead of a login session with a user account. The OP is making the equivalent complaint of running a full Ubuntu shell complete with the Ubuntu One store running in the background after starting up Gnome, and complaining that Canonical owes him CPU-time. Well, yeah, you logged into a interactive user session in a desktop user-oriented operating system! This is the case of the person who goes to a doctor and says, "It hurts when I do this". The answer: "Then don't do that!"
- the8472 7y ago
  > Well, yeah, you logged into a interactive user session in a desktop user-oriented operating system! While it certainly is preferable to use a headless session even a desktop session should quiescence by default, otherwise the operating system would be wasting gigawatts across its install base.
- tlynchpin 7y ago
  Commonly on windows, build pipeline tools don't work when they don't have a desktop environment even though there's no requirement for human interface (indeed, requirement for no human). The advent of Server Nano motivates a first class headless windows reality but even so, we been out here running xvnc because whatever tool required an X server.
peterwwillis 7y ago
@shipilev Dear God, @danluu posted this at HackerNews, and now I have people blowing this out of proportion and/or implying I should feel bad about "misconfiguration". Jeez, it is at-home build node, not the enterprise build farm. Most of the time I'm surprised it works without problems :D Tweets don't make great HN content. They're not fully-formed articles, they don't provide context, they miss critical information, and people always over-react to them.
kitchenkarma 7y ago
Windows is just a spyware at this point. Never use it for anything serious. Microsoft having more money that they can ever spend, play the "good person" and seduce developers with shiny things, but the underlining strategy to f*ck everyone hard is in play at all times. Don't be a fool.
- jah6q 7y ago
  But they use a heart emoji to prove their love to me and my ecosystem. They can't possibly be misleading me!
- DoofusOfDeath 7y ago
  > Windows is just a spyware at this point. I'd encourage you to avoid hyperbole, in the interest of keeping the discussion productive.
Causality1 7y ago
Leaving Internet Explorer installed on a Windows machine is like buying an old building and not removing the "whites only" sign from the bathrooms.
kazinator 7y ago
> Should send the bill for 8 CPU-hours to Microsoft... That rather comes across as anemic posturing from someone who has a "Windows build node" in 2019: Microserf for life.
jquast 7y ago
does anyone else think that windows defender is a surveillance tool, not a security tool? To hash all known files, so that when a file is later deemed illegal, it can be traced back to its origins using this private file hash database? wikileaks, etc.
yellowapple 7y ago
Microsoft's hard-on for shoving ads down its users' throats is exactly why the only versions of Windows I'll touch nowadays (and probably ever again) are the following: - Windows 2000 and prior releases - Windows 10 LTSC (formerly LTSB) - Windows Server And this would be only in cases where Windows is absolutely necessary; otherwise, why take that risk when Linux (and more recently OpenBSD) has been nice and good to me as a daily driver for 10 years now?
yrro 7y ago
Why are people still trying to use non-Enterprise versions of Windows for serious work?

255 points by luu 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

jchw 7y ago

The duality of modern Microsoft is absolutely astounding. How they can simultaneously do incredible things for Github, and open source Windows components, while continuing to not fix the most user hostile Windows ever produced, is completely bonkers. My litmus test for whether Windows is finally fixed is whether of not it’s possible to install it without Candy Crush, but unfortunately without killing the network and applying a registry patch as far as I know it can’t be done.

jimbob45 7y ago
Seems to me that DirectX is the last remaining barrier to finally getting the majority of the Windows user base to migrate to Linux. That and driver support.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
  You are ludicrously incorrect, just as everyone for the past 2 decades has been when they have predicted the year of the Linux Desktop. This trend will continue until Linux Desktop people stop underestimating what users actually do with computers.
  - jenscow 7y ago
    Nothing. They moved to mobile instead
    - freehunter 7y ago
      This is the correct answer. Even Ubuntu's famous bug #1 (Microsoft has a majority marketshare) was closed many years ago [1] as PC operating systems have declined in importance. Steve Jobs's comment about PCs being "trucks" has also come true. Almost all leisure computing has moved either to mobile devices (phones and tablets) and/or to the web (which overlaps mobile devices), making the OS less and less important. Gaming is about the only leisure activity left where desktop OS matters, but that's a relatively small marketshare comparatively. [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
        And yet, Linux Desktop still is not dominant, even only counting desktop computers. Hmm...
        snazz 7y ago
        As people use desktops less and less, they care less and less about what runs on them.
        belltaco 7y ago
        That narrative of the post-PC world collapsed when the sales of tablets like iPads collapsed.
        freehunter 7y ago
        Couple of things: 1) Tablets aren't the only "post-PC" platform. Most of the leisure computing is done on smartphones when it would have been done on a laptop or desktop 5-10 years ago. 2) If we're considering tablets to be PC replacements, we should expect their sales trends to be along the lines of PC sales. People keep PCs a lot longer than smartphones, so we should expect people to keep their iPads a lot longer than their phones too. 3) Tablet sales have absolutely not collapsed [1] [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/272595/global-shipments-forecast-for-tablets-laptops-and-desktop-pcs/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/272595/global-shipments-...
        Razengan 7y ago
        From what I could tell, iPads are the only tablets still going strong and getting even better. It’s Google who threw in the towel on tablets. See the recently revealed iPadOS: https://www.apple.com/ipados/ipados-preview/ https://www.apple.com/ipados/ipados-preview/
  - LarryDarrell 7y ago
    Play XBill and write manifestos with LaTeX?
  - iforgotpassword 7y ago
    > This trend will continue until Linux Desktop people stop underestimating what users actually do with computers. Nothing. They use apps on their Linux phones, or happily use any OS that runs a browser since everything is web based today. Oh and for gaming there is consoles of course, which crushes the PC gaming market in pretty much any discipline. The only people remaining dependent on desktops (or laptops) will be office workers, and I'm pretty sure they don't care about DirectX so much, so replacing those with Linux seems very doable, it's just the question if companies care enough. Last I checked, even office 365 worked on Linux.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
      > They use apps on their Linux phones Somehow I doubt Android is what Linux Desktop evangelists imagined. At best this is moving the goal posts significantly. > or happily use any OS that runs a browser since everything is web based today. Apparently that doesn't include Linux, despite it being free, not having invasive telemetry, and not having ads in the application launcher. > Oh and for gaming there is consoles of course, which crushes the PC gaming market in pretty much any discipline. And yet Steam is a ridiculously huge money maker and people are buying more PC games than ever. > The only people remaining dependent on desktops (or laptops) will be office workers Incorrect, but let's entertain your fantasies anyway. > I'm pretty sure they don't care about DirectX so much, so replacing those with Linux seems very doable Then why hasn't it happened? You think companies like paying licensing fees to Microsoft? Consider that there are good reasons people do not use Linux Desktop instead of just assuming they're all idiots.
      - iforgotpassword 7y ago
        > Somehow I doubt Android is what Linux Desktop evangelists imagined. You must be confusing Android with a desktop OS. It's mobile so they don't fall into the desktop category at all. Which was exactly my point: they simply don't need a desktop OS anymore. > Apparently that doesn't include Linux That reads like you're looking at some statistics that show that 0% of desktop users run Linux. Care pointing to it? > And yet Steam is a ridiculously huge money maker and people are buying more PC games than ever. So? It's completely overshadowed by the console market, not even including mobile games here. > Then why hasn't it happened? You think companies like paying licensing fees to Microsoft? You're asking why it hasn't happened yet in reply to me using future tense. But let's put aside that pretty much everything you said was deliberately besides the point. Why it hasn't happened yet is pretty simple. Companies weigh the cost of switching vs. The cost of just keep paying for Windows (so no changes, no initial setup cost, no training, ...). That's gonna be cheaper for quite some time but eventually everything will be in the cloud so there is less and less reason to keep up a huge and complicated windows domain network with software rollout and other brain damage. You might keep a basic AD in place for user management that the web services talk to but that's it. Funnily enough my current and previous employer is still on win 7 because of the frequent messups you read about regarding 10, and how even in a corporate environment it's near impossible to disable all telemetry. I'm curious what they'll do at 7's EOL. As for the average home desktop user, you're not seriously expecting your mom to go ahead and download and install Ubuntu are you? As long as most OEMs still exclusively sell machines with Windows preinstalled, there really shouldn't be anything surprising about the fact that most people use Windows. We already see some of the larger ones offering machines with Linux though, and with the desktop keeping to lose relevance and everything moving to the web I wouldn't be surprised to see this getting more prevalent over the next decade if Microsoft doesn't get their act together regarding Windows. It currently looks like they're cutting costs in that department, normal users seem to get the beta versions now so they could cut down their QA.
  - bediger4000 7y ago
    > people stop underestimating what users actually do with computers Oddly, this is the factor that underlies most of my personal beefs with both Microsoft and Apple. What's wrong with my wifi? At least I can look in journalctl on linux. My laptop doesn't have enough screenspace - I can use i3wm on linux. I want double-click to include '*' and '/' and ':' in a "word", hey I can change xterm config. I want left-mouse-button to start a selection, and right to continue it, and middle-mouse-button to paste, and I want F2 to paste, X11 can do that. I don't want the focused window to pop to the top? Can do on Linux. There's so many things that Windows and MacOS make the decisions for you and make it very, very hard to do otherwise that really cramp your style on a basic level.
    - zamalek 7y ago
      Most people don't do these things on their computers: > journalctl, i3wm, xterm config, non-standard mouse configurations The versatility of Linux is frequently touted as its best feature, a feature that 99% of humans don't care about, and would confuse that same 99% of people. People are used to what Microsoft and Apple imposed on them. For better, or for worse, they honestly couldn't give a damn about being able to do stuff like that. Their style is the Apple style, or the Microsoft style and, most importantly, the no-terminal style. Linux is the perfect desktop for developers. It hits all the wrong checkboxes for end-users.
      - bediger4000 7y ago
        Agreed, most people don't do much more than open "Edge" and "Outlook", some people Use "Word", a few people use "Excel" because "Word" doesn't do tables very well. The point being two-fold: 1. The argument that a Linux desktop won't fly because people do so damn many things that a Linux desktop just can't do is false. 2. Windows and Mac really push you hard into a single style of interacting with your computer.
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
        > a feature that 99% of humans don't care about, and would confuse that same 99% of people. This is precisely the kind of condescending bullshit I'm talking about. > People are used to what Microsoft and Apple imposed on them. A convenient fantasy for Linux Desktop evangelists to soothe their egos.
- jchw 7y ago
  Along with everything else that could be said about this, I don’t think that is even a major problem. Everything I’ve tried to run on Steam Proton runs at 60 FPS with highest settings. My guess is that Vulkan has enabled much better Direct3D emulation. (Of course, I don’t play much and I didn’t bother to benchmark. It probably is still worse than native in many cases. But hey, glitch free and fast enough for me. Was very surprised to see games with Denuvo running great.)
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
api 7y ago
It mirrors the new structure of the industry: developers are a totally separate market from users and generally get paid to work on software whose purpose is to exploit and "farm" users through surveillance capitalism and AI/ML powered soft mind control. In other words developers (and their employers) are customers while users are a product or resource to be exploited.
umvi 7y ago
> The duality of modern Microsoft is absolutely astounding. See: http://bonkersworld.net/organizational-charts http://bonkersworld.net/organizational-charts I don't work there, but I've heard Microsoft is more like a federation of organizations than one giant consistent, cohesive team.
- agumonkey 7y ago
  So are most big corps methinks. Here about Nokia death caused by internal tension between depts ? Sony sub-units more or less completely independent (selling cd and cd-burners).
  - panpanna 7y ago
    Sony is NOT like that. For example their phones have extremely complicated DRM that makes everything slower (and reserves tons of memory and even affects things like camera) because of their movie and music business.
- aNoob7000 7y ago
  Oh man, I couldn't stop giggling looking at the Microsoft and Oracle org charts. Those two pictures capture those two organizations completely.
- jchw 7y ago
  Because its buried far down and I can’t edit my post, I want to hijack this post to point out that it turns out in newer builds MS has actually removed the Candy Crush auto installation. https://mspoweruser.com/rejoice-windows-users-candy-crush-is-finally-gone/ https://mspoweruser.com/rejoice-windows-users-candy-crush-is... I didn’t notice because my Windows 10 image is out of date, presumably getting the latest ISO would fix the problem.
  - withinrafael 7y ago
    Nope. This feature bootstraps from the web and it's still in the latest update post-fresh install. This article is incorrect.
zarathustraa 7y ago
> My litmus test for whether Windows is finally fixed is whether of not it’s possible to install it without Candy Crush https://mspoweruser.com/rejoice-windows-users-candy-crush-is-finally-gone/ https://mspoweruser.com/rejoice-windows-users-candy-crush-is... What's you new litmus test?
- criley2 7y ago
  Funny that you're being downvoted for presenting evidence contradicting the OP. The groupthink in this thread is overwhelming.
- Apaec 7y ago
  It's still an stupid mistake MS made that could be once back. That's enough for me for staying away from the MS tax for life.
- jchw 7y ago
  Thank you. I installed Windows as early as last month (in a VM) and still got Candy Crush. This is probably because my ISO image was not fully up to date. I was not aware of this change but it is greatly appreciated. I can no longer modify the parent comment but if dang or anyone else with permission wants to please feel free. No need for a new litmus test, though solving the problem of Edge opening MSN ads after updating would probably buy some goodwill.
  - jchw 7y ago
    Correction: It still happens with a completely fresh install, just like withinrafael claims. https://i.imgur.com/zDWo4Hb.png https://i.imgur.com/zDWo4Hb.png Very sad.
- fortran77 7y ago
  I just checked my Windows 10 machine that I use every day for 8 hours to get real work done. There's no "Candy Crush" on it.
- fortran77 7y ago
  Mac OSX comes with chess. What's the difference?
freehunter 7y ago
Honest question and I am absolutely not starting an argument, but what have they done for Github? All I'm aware of is making private repos free, but I haven't seen anything beyond that. I must be out of the loop.
- cjaybo 7y ago
  The latest development that I'm aware of is the package registry they are launching: https://github.com/features/package-registry https://github.com/features/package-registry
- jchw 7y ago
  I have no idea how much they had to do with Github’s recent developments, but: - Github Sponsors with donation matching for some limited time period - Github Pro which based on browsing user profiles a surprising amount of folks have bought into - Github Package Repositories. - Github Pipelines. Generally I have been waiting for Github to start sucking but it has only gotten better imo. I have been a pretty big Gitlab fanboy for a while so it’s weird to harp on Github’s progress but they’ve done a good job flipping the script.
  - joeblubaugh 7y ago
    Their PR UIs have recently gotten some much-needed improvements too.
    - kzrdude 7y ago
      We finally got a dual sided "more context" button for diffs, that was so annoying when that was missing (and a declined feature request when I asked).
  - paavohtl 7y ago
    > - Github Pro which based on browsing user profiles a surprising amount of folks have bought into Not a statement either way, but AFAIK everyone who has the Student Pack[1] gets the PRO badge. I have it and I haven't spent a penny on GitHub (though my employer has). [1] https://education.github.com/pack https://education.github.com/pack
marcosdumay 7y ago
> How they can simultaneously do incredible things for Github, and open source Windows components, while continuing to not fix the most user hostile Windows ever produced, is completely bonkers. Developers, developers, developers. When they stopped singing that, they nearly failed. Now they are back. It doesn't include being nice to end-users.
kitchenkarma 7y ago
I don't think Microsoft is doing incredible things. They are baiting the developers and just use the strategy of locking people into their constellation of spying services. Acquiring GitHub they got access to all private repositiories and insight to what other companies are doing. This is despicable.
- urda 7y ago
  > Acquiring GitHub they got access to all private repositiories and insight to what other companies are doing. This is despicable. Spreading disinformation in 2019 is despicable itself. - Microsoft already handles data from competitors in other portions of their corporation. If it was discovered that Microsoft and / or GitHub actors were acting in bad faith with private repositories, that would immediately erode the trust of their Azure platform. - Most projects are more than just the code. It's often build toolchains, pipelines, and other specific knowledge around said code.
- oblio 7y ago
  You're not looking at the big picture. Microsoft already has - and has had for 30 years! - the most valuable data in the world flowing through Excel and Word. Code is cool, but they could already know everything every company in the world is doing. I don't think they're abusing the trust put into them, we'd know by now. They'd also probably be blown to smithereens by governments and other corporations, through lawsuits.
duhballs 7y ago
this past weekend my windows 10 host installed candy crush (and other stuff) without asking me. I honestly thought I had been hacked. My other favorite thing is bing in the start menu. They changed the gpo/registry setting to disable it like twice, and didn't even have safe search enabled on it!

simplyinfinity 7y ago

The guy probably has infected machine... which is far more likely than MS runing ad farm

silversconfused 7y ago
We have all the proof we need that MS is running an ad farm from the base windows experience. What proof do you have that he was infected with malware beyond that?
- lostmsu 7y ago
  And what is the proof?
- simplyinfinity 7y ago
  Where's that proof? I also run windows 10 at home, no issues with cpu or ads. The build servers at work? Same. no IE cpu hogs, no ad farms ... That's why i think this is some malware that has gotten by, and not ad farm.
- penagwin 7y ago
  From my other comment: I see people talking about ad farming - but this seems like for whatever reason IE was opened - and it's default home page is MSN, which has ads. Where are you getting ad farming from?
specktr 7y ago
Have you used windows 10 recently? I didn't realize how bad it was until I installed a fresh copy of windows 10. My backup windows machine has so many registry patches to disable the crapware that I didn't recall how bad it truly is by default.
- simplyinfinity 7y ago
  every day on my laptop and my desktop pc. all runing without disabling the telemetry. laptop has 5hrs of battery daily, pc is runing fine. Except when i open chrome... chrome eats my ram

jtdev 7y ago

A related observation: I have between 4-8 *nix, MacOS, iOS, machines running on my home network at any given time. I’m using piHole (with base config) to block ad traffic. My blocked percentage hovers around ~10%... until I boot up my one Windows 10 machine, which spikes the blocked ad traffic to ~25% and remains that high -with zero applications running mind you - until I shutdown the machine, after which it quickly drops back ~10%. It seems that Windows 10 is essentially an ad and surveillance OS built for mining user data at this point.

dzink 7y ago
I’ve seen less on the Windows 10 Pro version (switched off all datasending features on install).
- starik36 7y ago
  How does one do that?
- parliament32 7y ago
  Enjoy having them silently re-enabled on the next update. Enterprise is the only version where you can actually disable and it'll stay disabled, because most regulated corps would consider "telemetry" a data breach.
  - blahyawnblah 7y ago
    I check them periodically and have never seen any of the settings turned back on.
    - raxxorrax 7y ago
      Me neither from updates, but I have random components of my system fail. Like the start menu search if you disable some telemetry services. It is telling that deactivating telemetry is the most significant feature of the enterprise edition.
  - 7y ago

penagwin 7y ago

I see people talking about ad farming - but this seems like for whatever reason IE was opened - and it's default home page is MSN, which has ads. Not saying that IE should've ever been opened in the first place but this doesn't sound very malicious? It is pretty sad how much resources pages like that take though.

Razengan 7y ago

Things like these is why most Mac converts never want to return to Windows. Not just the issue in TFA/post, which may seem trivial, but the overall “telemetry” debacle and experiences like jtdev’s comment. For all their claims of having reformed, Microsoft will always be that ex you don’t want to do anything with ever again. There are worse horrors than the lack of a physical Escape key, waiting on the other side of the fence.

ctrl-j 7y ago
I love the idea of Apple being more privacy focused, and helping us keep our data more secure. I have a touchbar macbook pro, and a headphone-jackless iphone. I just wish they wouldn't beat me with their opinionated hardware and software choices. Deprecating open gl. Eliminating 32-bit support. Forcing me to use dongle after dongle (ethernet, usb-A, HDMI, and SD card) Magic mouse has such a terrible sensor, not to mention the charging port location. I actually replaced it with a logitech because it's pretty much unusable for any precision work. Heck, I bought an eGPU enclosure recently because I had a set of nvidia cards lying around.. I can only use it in bootcamp though, because of course macs only support AMD cards... Microsoft may be an abusive ex, but apple is pretty much the same melody with different lyrics.
- Razengan 7y ago
  Perhaps we should all keep and maintain a Linux machine in the event that Apple and Microsoft both decide to screw us over.
  - fit2rule 7y ago
    Had my Linux machine up and running somewhere since the day Linus announced it on minix-list. Still though, also have my stack of MacBooks. Apple becoming a Unix vendor lured me to their hardware, which functions as a terminal server in most regards, for my needs. For everything else, there's a fat Linux machine. Windows: just, no. Only use it if I get paid to use it.
  - michaelcampbell 7y ago

draw_down 7y ago

Say whatever you like about Apple, they don’t do this.

chvid 7y ago

Maybe don’t use windows for your build machine.

sam_lowry_ 7y ago
He is building JDKs for Windows, mind you.
saagarjha 7y ago
Presumably they're building for Windows?

jimbobimbo 7y ago

I sympathize with the pickle, but this sounds more like a case of misconfigured build node. Why Internet Explorer is even on it? If OP RDP'd to the machine and saw IE window open, wouldn't this mean that build processes are running under whatever account interactively? Why?

FluffyKitty 7y ago
Yeah, I have to agree here. If this is a build server, I'd argue that they should be running Windows Server and just disable the UI all together.
- 3minus1 7y ago
  Maybe it runs selenium tests as part of the build process

skrebbel 7y ago

So the objection is that Internet Explorer has msn.com as its default homepage. This is fair, it's ridiculous and a relic from a long gone age. But so is Internet Explorer. What kind of super old Windows version were these people running? What caused IE to open out of the blue? Windows has plenty flaws but randomly open browsers is not one I'm familiar with.

nathankunicki 7y ago
The comment on randomly opening windows is fair (I don't see what caused it either), but this was a build VM, not a workstation - there is no reason to upgrade the browser. A more pertinent question is why are MS still shipping IE by default.
- css 7y ago
  A lot of enterprise software from Oracle still requires Java 6 and a J2SE plug-in, which only run in IE for whatever reason.
  - Someone1234 7y ago
    > which only run in IE for whatever reason. Java Applets (and Flash) were built on the NPAPI APIs (as "plug-ins"). Historically NPAPI was supported by every major browser. NPAPI/Plug-ins are insecure/cannot be sandboxed. After Flash died, browsers quickly dropped NPAPI support (namely Opera 2016, Chrome in 2015, Firefox in 2017, Safari in 2018, etc) and Edge never supported it. Internet Explorer is the only browser with a large install-base that still supports native plugins and by extension Java Applet. It is essentially Microsoft's "compatibility" browser, a safe haven for the last remaining ActiveX/NPAPI Plug-ins/Flash/Java Applets/etc. Extensions by contrast are much more secure, as they run completely in a browser's context and can be isolated/sandbox/have permissions, but aren't suitable for running a full speed virtual machine (although Web Assembly could change that) like Java or Flash.
    - cesarb 7y ago

nailer 7y ago

As the response notes, this should be a headless Windows installation. Installing and running a GUI and IE are the results of choices made by the Tweeter.

blinkingled 7y ago

Server editions have IE/edge in locked down mode by default and all the crap removed so he should just stop running builds on client versions of Windows?

hrktb 7y ago
For anyone curious like me, the standard editions are 139~199$ for the license, 501~6155$ for the server editions. So the price to not get ads every update is 300$ I guess.

ufmace 7y ago

This sounds pretty bizarre. I wonder exactly what version of Windows they were using? Sounds like maybe not a server version? I've run a bunch of Windows computers, and while they have some annoying habits, I've never had one spontaneously open a IE window on me. Maybe he got malware on it somehow? Though getting malware on a server would be very disturbing. Most of my most-annoying OS features are around updates these days. Windows Update loves to just spontaneously force-reboot whenever it feels like it, too bad if you had some unsaved files or some process you intended to leave running. OS X is nicer about its OS updates, but the Mac App Store seems to like to silently download and install updates whenever it feels like it. Pretty annoying when you're trying to do something on your last few % of battery, and it decides to burn up the CPU updating XCode or iTunes or something, with no indication what it's doing or how to make it stop.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

fortran77 7y ago

The ads were because they had, for some reason, launched a browser, and the default homepage had ads. I'd like to know how this browser launched and why before I'd point fingers. Windows does have an annoying feature (which can be turned off, but it's not obvious) where apps will relaunch after reboot, perhaps that was the cause, but we don't know.

IronWolve 7y ago

Everything wants to startup and run in the background on windows, all those game update installers (steam/orgin/etc), adobe products, drivers, apps, its crazy. Not even counting all the win10 apps.

AaronFriel 7y ago

OP should install Windows Server Nano or Core to run these or use a non-interactive user session to run builds, e.g.: by running a service with a service account instead of a login session with a user account. The OP is making the equivalent complaint of running a full Ubuntu shell complete with the Ubuntu One store running in the background after starting up Gnome, and complaining that Canonical owes him CPU-time. Well, yeah, you logged into a interactive user session in a desktop user-oriented operating system! This is the case of the person who goes to a doctor and says, "It hurts when I do this". The answer: "Then don't do that!"

the8472 7y ago
> Well, yeah, you logged into a interactive user session in a desktop user-oriented operating system! While it certainly is preferable to use a headless session even a desktop session should quiescence by default, otherwise the operating system would be wasting gigawatts across its install base.
tlynchpin 7y ago
Commonly on windows, build pipeline tools don't work when they don't have a desktop environment even though there's no requirement for human interface (indeed, requirement for no human). The advent of Server Nano motivates a first class headless windows reality but even so, we been out here running xvnc because whatever tool required an X server.

peterwwillis 7y ago

@shipilev Dear God, @danluu posted this at HackerNews, and now I have people blowing this out of proportion and/or implying I should feel bad about "misconfiguration". Jeez, it is at-home build node, not the enterprise build farm. Most of the time I'm surprised it works without problems :D Tweets don't make great HN content. They're not fully-formed articles, they don't provide context, they miss critical information, and people always over-react to them.

kitchenkarma 7y ago

Windows is just a spyware at this point. Never use it for anything serious. Microsoft having more money that they can ever spend, play the "good person" and seduce developers with shiny things, but the underlining strategy to f*ck everyone hard is in play at all times. Don't be a fool.

jah6q 7y ago
But they use a heart emoji to prove their love to me and my ecosystem. They can't possibly be misleading me!
DoofusOfDeath 7y ago
> Windows is just a spyware at this point. I'd encourage you to avoid hyperbole, in the interest of keeping the discussion productive.

Causality1 7y ago

Leaving Internet Explorer installed on a Windows machine is like buying an old building and not removing the "whites only" sign from the bathrooms.

kazinator 7y ago

> Should send the bill for 8 CPU-hours to Microsoft... That rather comes across as anemic posturing from someone who has a "Windows build node" in 2019: Microserf for life.

jquast 7y ago

does anyone else think that windows defender is a surveillance tool, not a security tool? To hash all known files, so that when a file is later deemed illegal, it can be traced back to its origins using this private file hash database? wikileaks, etc.

yellowapple 7y ago

Microsoft's hard-on for shoving ads down its users' throats is exactly why the only versions of Windows I'll touch nowadays (and probably ever again) are the following: - Windows 2000 and prior releases - Windows 10 LTSC (formerly LTSB) - Windows Server And this would be only in cases where Windows is absolutely necessary; otherwise, why take that risk when Linux (and more recently OpenBSD) has been nice and good to me as a daily driver for 10 years now?

yrro 7y ago

Why are people still trying to use non-Enterprise versions of Windows for serious work?