18 ms·

The New Austrian Railways' Intercity and Nightjet Sleeper Train Interior Design

235 points by Osiris30 7y ago

ganonm 7y ago
Sleeper trains make so much sense for travel over land. They are often competitively priced with air travel, they pollute a lot less and the time saved can be huge when you consider that you spend time travelling when you would otherwise be asleep (although this is sometimes true for air travel, many/most people find it difficult to get quality sleep in economy class). The London - Edinburgh sleeper train (Caledonian Express) has been running pretty much since 1873 and is an amazing way to get between the two cities. You arrive at the station in London between 10-12pm, depending on if you want to have a few snacks or glasses of wine, then wake up in Edinburgh around 8am the next day.
- Freak_NL 7y ago
  The Caledonian Express is definitely on my list of trains to travel by some day. Pretty soon (when the customs part is sorted out on the Amsterdam end) it will be possible to travel from Amsterdam to London directly on the Eurostar without transferring in Brussels, so that helps too for me as a Dutchman.
  - arien 7y ago
    I've been on a fair amount of sleeper trains and the Caledonian has been the most comfortable so far. For the opposite, the most uncomfortable one to sleep in was the Hong Kong to Shanghai one. I paid extra for the Deluxe option, can't even imagine how hard the bed would have been on the lower classes. Still, was a pretty cool journey.
    - nhf 7y ago
      I think that's just an (northeast) Asian bed thing. Preferences trend firm for mattresses and you can see this in traditional or luxury places that don't cater to Westerners. The most deluxe ryokans in Japan still have relatively thin mats on the floor, business hotels in China and Japan often have former mattresses, and so on.
    - buckminster 7y ago
      I took a 44 hour train from Delhi to Bombay. The "bed" was a plastic-covered sheet of wood, like a cheap kitchen worktop. That was uncomfortable. I think it was standard class.
  - telesilla 7y ago
    I took the train direct from London to Rotterdam a few days ago so I assume it goes straight to Amsterdam also. No customs required (unless brexit) and passport control was done at the point of departure.
    - ropiku 7y ago
      On the way back unfortunately you have to stop in Brussels because Amsterdam/Rotterdam do not have passport control for departure.
- twic 7y ago
  > many/most people find it difficult to get quality sleep in economy class I've only taken a sleeper train once (from Paris to Marseille), but i found it difficult to get quality sleep on that. There's noise, there's movement, and the mattress isn't terribly good. Train schedules don't necessarily fit well with your normal sleeping schedule. I'd much rather to the trip in a TGV and then spend the hours saved having a shower and a rest on arrival.
- arethuza 7y ago
  Worth pointing out that the sleepers don't terminate at Edinburgh - they continue further north to Fort William and Inverness - the former being the "Deerstalker": https://www.seat61.com/deerstalker.htm https://www.seat61.com/deerstalker.htm I have chatted (T-bars being quite sociable) to people who had come up for skiing on Cairngorm on the sleeper as well. Edit: Replaced "stop" with "terminate".
  - phillc73 7y ago
    I'm pretty sure the Caledonian Sleeper to Fort William does stop at Edinburgh Waverley, just not terminate there.
    - arethuza 7y ago
      Corrected - I meant "doesn't terminate" rather than "doesn't stop" - I think the train splits somewhere to go its various ways.
      - gsnedders 7y ago
        The Highlander (to Aberdeen, Fort William, and Inverness) splits at Edinburgh Waverley (though that's not a passenger call); the Lowlander (to Edinburgh and Glasgow) splits at Carstairs Junction.
- usrusr 7y ago
  Problem is they really don't quite make as much sense for city pairings that don't fall into the narrow window of roughly one night of travel time. This severely limits the amount of mainstream awareness sleeper trains can reach, so people who don't routinely travel such a route won't have them on their radar when they do.
  - Symbiote 7y ago
    Many sleeper trains stop at several places (just like a normal train does) until, say, 10pm. Then they travel for a long time overnight, and stop in several places in the morning. You can see the Caledonian Sleeper timetable at [1], it's also reasonable to catch it at Watford. It then stops at both Edinburgh and Glasgow (they have split the train in two further south). You can see the Highland train stops at many towns and villages. You do need to be a bit more alert if you're getting off the train before the terminus, but the attendant will almost always wake the passengers who are due to alight. [1] https://www.seat61.com/CaledonianSleepers.htm https://www.seat61.com/CaledonianSleepers.htm
  - morsch 7y ago
    Well, pairings that fall below the window of 6 to 9 hours are short enough you don't need a sleeper train: sitting in a train for 3 to 5 hours is not that bad. Pairings that are above the window are turned into a 6 to 9 hour sleeper train ride plus a regular 3 to 5 hour ride that's not that bad.
- atourgates 7y ago
  The Caledonian Express is in the process of refreshing all their rolling stock as well. There have been some growing pains (the introduction has been delayed a few times, and isn't fleet-wide yet), but it seems like a significant upgrade. Excited for our first overnight train ride in their new hotel-room style sleeper cars (with a private bath and shower) later this summer. Even for a family of 6, when you factor in the (saved) cost of overnight acommodations in either London or Edinburgh, it was one of the most affordable ways to travel between those two cities.
- adrianhon 7y ago
  Beware: The Caledonian Sleeper is experiencing severe teething problems, including delayed boarding times (e.g. past midnight) and last-minute service cancellations. The trains were clearly rolled out with insufficient testing. If you're travelling on it in the next few months, hope for the best – but plan for the worst. Epic discussion thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/caledonian-sleeper.176365/page-111 https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/caledonian-sleeper.1763...
- ekianjo 7y ago
  > They are often competitively priced with air travel I traveled in sleeper trains in China, and while the experience was interesting, I can't really say it was comfortable or even pleasant. People would keep moving around at night, making noise, and the train would stop now and then and create noise on its own. It's slow and it only works if you are not too far from where you want to go anyway, unless you are ready to waste a long time to get there.
- JadeNB 7y ago
  > They are often competitively priced with air travel, Not in the US! I would love to travel by train whenever time permitted, but it is prohibitively expensive to travel by sleeper car.
  - hahamrfunnyguy 7y ago
    I traveled from NY to LA via train with one planned stop-over. We had coach seats which were a little less expensive than air travel, so it's not really worth doing unless you're in it for the experience of it. It was an enjoyable experience tough, and we'd probably do it again on another route. While it would have been nicer to have a sleeper, the coach seats were pretty comfortable.
    - JadeNB 7y ago
      As someone who's done lots of long-haul (Texas–Chicago and Texas–Maryland) rides, one (or a few) long-distance coach trip is perfectly doable, and even enjoyable if you like train rides; but I feel that it gets unbearable pretty quickly as a regular occurrence. Also a big factor: travelling with an intimate (someone you can literally lean on) makes sleeping much easier, even in coach.
- morsch 7y ago
  I take sleeper trains occasionally between Germany and Austria. A plane ticket would be 30-50 EUR, a basic six-person sleeper cabin is 90 EUR, a private 2 person sleeper cabin is 160 EUR (x2, obviously). It's a great way to travel, but competitively priced it ain't.
- mobilefriendly 7y ago
  I've taken the Amtrak Autotrain from DC to Florida many times with a car and family. It is somewhat expensive (about $2,200 roundtrip for a family of four and car) and very unpleasant but I keep WISHING this time will be different...the US sleeping cars are ancient and covered in a film of grime. The tracks in the Carolinas are very rough and bumpy, sleep is difficult. Maybe someday we'll have sleeping cars like this but I think we'll have luxury self-driving sleeping buses displace America's terrible sleeping car rail option.
- briandear 7y ago
  > They are often competitively priced with air travel Not at all. London-Edinburgh is £65 on EasyJet and a 1 hour trip. A regular seat on the Caledonian Express is £45 for an 8 hour trip. The Caledonian Express en suite twin room is £280.00 > when you consider that you spend time travelling when you would otherwise be asleep I could fly Easy Jet for 1 hour for £65, and have money left over for a very comfortable hotel and a nice meal.
2sk21 7y ago
Given how bad domestic plane travel has become in the US, I suspect that many business trips may not be much slower even at Amtrak speeds.
- NickM 7y ago
  I've certainly found that to be the case when traveling to NYC. From where I live, a plane ride takes about an hour, and Amtrak takes about 6.5 hours...except that really, the total trip time ends up being about five hours for the plane and seven hours for the train. Flying involves driving twenty minutes to the airport, arriving early due to uncertain security wait times, going through security, waiting to board, boarding, taxiing, flying, taxiing, disembarking from the plane, and then even after all that you have to walk a long way through the airport, take the AirTrain to a different station, then get on yet another train to make it into Manhattan. The train, by contrast, involves leaving from downtown near where I live, sitting on the train, and arriving in Manhattan a few blocks from my office. It's so much simpler and more relaxing, and much easier to actually get work done during the trip, so oftentimes it's worth the extra couple of hours the trip takes. If we could invest in high-speed rail and make the whole train trip even, say, 30% faster, there would be no contest.
Freak_NL 7y ago
Österreichische Bundesbahnen (ÖBB) took over all remaining sleepers run by Deutsche Bahn (DB) some years ago. One downside of this was the dropping of the Amsterdam–Munich sleeper — ÖBB's nexus lies in Vienna. The Netherlands currently has no sleeper trains, which is rather unfortunate, because the sleeper train appears to gaining in popularity after a period of decline. Increasingly, people want to avoid flying if reasonably possible. A sleeper train is ideal, because you spend most of the trip asleep, and end up in Munich, Paris, Vienna, etc. early in the morning, in the middle of the city. Sure, it's not as comfortable as a hotel, but it beats the torture of flying (I'm 200cm tall), and train stations are just a lot more pleasant to be in than airports. These trains looks really nice.
- distances 7y ago
  Then problem of price still remains before wide popularity for sleepers or even just long daytrips. I'd love to use trains more often, but I'm not willing to pay through the nose. A trip in Central Europe I recently booked would've been over twice the price with a train, with maybe a couple of hours longer travel time when accounting for airport trips and waiting. Second class, just a daytime journey without sleeping. Timewise this would've been fine, but price is not competitive. I'm not sure if the problem is too cheap flights, or too expensive trains.
  - m_mueller 7y ago
    I think there's probably some crossover point that makes it more expensive to house people for longer amounts of time with more space required on a train, compared to burn a bunch of hydrocarbons to boost them to 800kph and get rid of them as soon as possible. Not sure whether physics make cheaper pricing possible as long as externalities aren't fully factored into the price of fossil fuels (i.e. flying gets more expensive and trains stay the same).
  - chappi42 7y ago
    Considering the melting arctic sea ice, the answer is easy. (Of course flights are not the only reason and I'm not saying that an individual shouldn't choose what is right for him/her, it's a policy/tax matter).
tomglynch 7y ago
There's been talk for a while about autonomous cars driving people throughout the night across countries/states for meetings the next day. Sleeper trains already do this. Sleeper trains are making a comeback as we become more aware of the impact of flying to the environment.
- gpvos 7y ago
  Nevertheless, the number of people taking the plane isn't going down, while that should be the real aim.
TKAB 7y ago
As a regular train traveller here in Austria and I'm very curious how this turns out. Currently the Intercity/RailJet trains are more like a downgrade to what was available before. They look nicer, but provide quite uncomfortable seating and offer no possibility to change the seating inclination; due to the air condition it's very noisy; there's no place to put your feet in an elevated position; there's no compartments, the whole car is one big room; and the only option for children is an open place with a TV, you have a lot of fun chasing your small children through the train.
- the_mitsuhiko 7y ago
  > Currently the Intercity/RailJet trains are more like a downgrade to what was available before. I strongly disagree with this. I really like the railjet. My issue is that it's still on an elevated platform which is super annoying if you have strollers. But in terms of comfort I think it's their best product yet. I definitely prefer that over the compartments that were there before.
- acqq 7y ago
  I'm sure I couldn't sleep in the upper bed here: https://www.priestmangoode.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/PriestmanGoode-OBB-Night-Train-First-Class.jpg https://www.priestmangoode.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Pr... Enclosing beds to make them a kind of cradle is bad. The good design would add space not stuff. There's a reason older trains didn't have that. Typical design made on computer that nobody tried to use (or not enough users to say how bad it is). I've also traveled in the newer trains in Europe that were significantly worse than the older, again for having less space everywhere. It's a bad trend.
  - morsch 7y ago
    It looks fine to me? What's wrong with it? Many people are worried about falling out of the upper bed in sleeper cars. There's often a rail there. The "half cradle" offers the same protection against falling, while making it easier to get in from the foot end. It provides protection against light, noise and drafts. The foot end is a bit narrower than the overall bed, which is also a smart use of space and, again, makes getting into the bed easier. This is also the first sleeper cabin I've seen where the window seems to be parallel beside the bed as opposed to orthogonal at one end.
ixtli 7y ago
What I wouldn't give for even the slightest interested in the development of public transit infrastructure in the US :(
- closeparen 7y ago
  Amtrak runs extensive sleeper service around the US. I’ve taken San Francisco to Chicago - it’s quite nice, if you’re willing to burn some vacation days.
  - ixtli 7y ago
    I am, and I plan to :)
keeganjw 7y ago
If only the US had trains this nice... One can dream. This really looks spectacular.
- arien 7y ago
  I did recently Chicago to Las Vegas with the Southwest Chief and, while it's not as shiny, it was still a lovely train (the cabins, the restaurant and the fantastic viewing lounge), with great service and quite comfy. It was a very enjoyable trip, would recommend it to anyone who loves train travel. Looking forward to taking the California Zephyr some day.
- finolex1 7y ago
  The new Acela Express trains don't look too shabby.
  - vonmoltke 7y ago
    Of only we could get the tracks to take advantage of them. Oh, and cut several stops off it as well.
jschwartzi 7y ago
In the US I would take a sleeper train from Seattle to Chicago instead of a plane provided the sleeper train runs 180 mph on average. That would put me in Chicago in about 10-12 hours, meaning I could get to Union Station in Seattle, get on the train, sleep a full night, wake up, eat breakfast, and disembark in Chicago. The red-eye to Chicago, which is a comparable trip, really sucks because you only get about 3 hours of sleep in the most uncomfortable position imaginable. This means that you arrive in the city groggy and discombobulated. I would even pay airfare-level prices for that kind of service. And extra if there's a way to segregate families with small children from my cabin so I don't have to try to remain asleep while a toddler is screaming for 3 hours in the same cabin.
- atoav 7y ago
  I grew up in Central Europe and used the hell out of night trains. It is really one of the best ways to get around, if available.
  - deleted 7y ago
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- princekolt 7y ago
  In Europe it is standard to have silent cabins, especially on first class.
- CaptainZapp 7y ago
  In the US I would take a sleeper train from Seattle to Chicago instead of a plane provided the sleeper train runs 180 mph on average. Not really doable for a lot of Austria and generally the Alpine regions. There are not many high speed tracks in Austria and Switzerland, the reason being that the countries are relatively small and that building high speed tracks through the alps is insanely expensive. Switzerland built two base tunnels through the alps: The Lötschberg[1] - and Gotthard[2] base tunnels, which are geared to a top speed of 250 km/h (ca. 155 miles/h) and a normal travel speed of 200 km/h (125). That's why it takes roughly 10 hours to get from Zurich to Vienna, but only 4 to get from Zurich to Paris (after Mulhouse the whole track is high speed capable and trains run with up to 320 kmh (200 m) on that track. Edited to add: Of course night trains make a lot of sense on that route. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%B6tschberg_Base_Tunnel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%B6tschberg_Base_Tunnel [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotthard_Base_Tunnel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotthard_Base_Tunnel
Grumbledour 7y ago
Those trains look nice, but at the same time pretty cramped and uncomfortable to me. I wonder if its just the photos, but the seats look to straight with not much legroom and the sleeper compartments seem really tiny.
- deanclatworthy 7y ago
  And the photos attached are primarily first-class seats too. I found it odd having two seats next to each other without an armrest or gap in-between. I would not want a stranger next to me without that space/divider.
  - finolex1 7y ago
    There are arm rests between the seats if you look closely in the first few pictures. It seems like you have to pull them up from the seat bottom.
amit9gupta 7y ago
The images are computer generated graphics, not real photographs taken with a camera.
- the_mitsuhiko 7y ago
  Correct. This train is yet to come but there are pictures of model in 1:1 scale. https://schienenradler.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/1130081-001.jpg https://schienenradler.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/1130081-0... https://schienenradler.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/1130082-001.jpg https://schienenradler.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/1130082-0... https://schienenradler.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/1130097-001.jpg https://schienenradler.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/1130097-0...
- ekianjo 7y ago
  Expect vandalism to take place in such trains in no time when they get to operate.
  - the_mitsuhiko 7y ago
    OeBB takes great care of their trains. If they get sprayed they are removed from service and cleaned.
joyjoyjoy 7y ago
Night sleeper train map http://www.night-trains.com/ http://www.night-trains.com/
api 7y ago
I wish we actually invested in domestic infrastructure in the US.
arien 7y ago
Slightly off-topic, but couldn't help but notice on the Projects list a really cool version of the London tube. Unfortunately it seems it's from 2014 (there's even some quote from Boris as Mayor), so probably scrapped by now? Makes me wonder if these Austrian train designs are already set in stone or just a proposal that might or might not happen.
- the_mitsuhiko 7y ago
  > Makes me wonder if these Austrian train designs are already set in stone or just a proposal that might or might not happen. I would assume they are pretty much set in stone. I was in a mock model they had standing around at Vienna central station. They got the budget and are currently ordering the trains.
- estel 7y ago
  Shockingly it's not been scrapped - the deep tube programme is, to some extent, unscrappable. They're currently due to enter service in about five years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Tube_for_London https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Tube_for_London
- rkangel 7y ago
  That design is extremely close to the new design of train in use on the circle line. The seating arrangement is a little different and they use monochrome LED signboards rather than LCD (for sensible reasons), but the continuous unobstructed design is there, along with actual aircon. It's an impressive sight to look from one end of the interior to the other when it's not full of people (and going straight).
  - arien 7y ago
    Yeah, I've seen those, but they are slightly different and have been available for a few years already (I believe before 2014, the date of this project, but I could be wrong). I'm glad to see on the other reply that the plan hasn't been scrapped. Some of the lines could really use new trains (with proper air ventilation/filtering, especially).
dougmwne 7y ago
This design is wonderful and it reminds me a of 21st century version of this: https://www.belmond.com/trains/europe/venice-simplon-orient-express/ https://www.belmond.com/trains/europe/venice-simplon-orient-... Train travel can be absolutely luxurious in a way that a plane or self-driving car could never be. You don't even need to book a $3,000 historical reenactment to get a taste. On a whim, I once booked a 1st class AVE train in Spain for an extra $10 and ended up with bottomless wine/champagne and a several course dinner for 3 hours. Would I ride a chicken bus for 7 hours through Honduras? Sure, but there are points for style too.
- joezydeco 7y ago
  The information displays built into the viewing window frames are very nice, but you already know those will be the first things to get thrown out for cost and/or complexity.
  - fyfy18 7y ago
    Or the first place where they will start blasting you with adverts.
dzhiurgis 7y ago
Elegant, comfortable travel across Europe * * For people exact height of 160cm
- alkonaut 7y ago
  The beds are surely at least 2m? What makes it uncomfortable for someone over 160?
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    Why are they 'surely' at least 2m? The beds on the Caledonian aren't that long. A standard (not King) bed is only 190 cm in most countries. You're not going to get a King-length bed on a train - that's not a reasonable expectation.
    - alkonaut 7y ago
      Im 180 and never felt a difference in length from my home bed to the sleeper train beds. They may be shorter but not so much that it bothered me. That’s why I assumed they were the same as home beds (standard length in Europe is 200).
      - deleted 7y ago
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    - gomox 7y ago
      Northern Europeans are very tall.
    - Symbiote 7y ago
      British trains are narrower than most in Continental Europe, the structure gauge (the width the train can be without crashing into tunnel walls, platforms and so on) is smaller. For example, a fairly recent British coach is 2.73m wide, but a German ICE is 2.85m wide, and a Danish/Swedish passenger coach is 2.97m wide. The difference is noticeable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_gauge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_gauge (Coach widths taken from searching "<Country> railway coach Wikipedia" and finding an infobox with the width.)
marapuru 7y ago
What a great design. I like the simplicity and the lightness of it all. One thing I don't understand is the private berths. > Private berths are fitted in both First and Standard Class carriages and can be booked for business passengers or families travelling together. They are completely transparent, nice for the lightness. But bad for privacy. I can see many reasons why a business meeting would not want prying eyes. For me it has been a common issue in the past to be traveling while working on private files. But having a person sitting next to you doesn't allow for enough privacy... So usually I just stopped working, while that could be a big plus of train travel.
- gomox 7y ago
  If you often do this there are privacy films for your computer screen that drastically reduce horizontal viewing angles and greatly improve privacy.
michaelbuckbee 7y ago
One high-level design choice that they made is to entirely skip any kind of in-seat entertainment and screens and instead of plan around people showing up with their own tablets and phones (to which they provide power). This makes immense sense to me and I'm sure simplifies things on their side.
- alistairSH 7y ago
  Agreed. Southwest Airlines does this in the US, with "free" wifi access to their entertainment app/portal. I much prefer it to the often terrible seat-back screens on some other carriers.
  - ohples 7y ago
    I have even seen on some airlines (Alaska) that are doing away with seat backs screens on newer flights you can pay to rent a tablet if you don't already have one, want an extra one, etc.
  - clarkmoody 7y ago
    Same with certain United flights. Stream movies onto your own phone from the plane's WiFi.
- gomox 7y ago
  I have never seen a train with in seat entertainment (other than looking out the window!). Is that even a thing?
  - indeed30 7y ago
    It used to be a thing. https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/end-of-volo-tv-on-fgw-hsts.105535/ https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/end-of-volo-tv-on-fgw-h...
    - Theodores 7y ago
      They made the seats more claustrophobic even though they didn't stick out massively. They were not free so the only thing you could use them for realistically was the map. So yes, you could see where the train was for 2-3 minutes then it would go into 'attract mode' to try and get you to pay. I think that they were a solution looking for a problem. They could reboot the concept to use Apple Carplay/Android Auto. Train info is useful to have on hand and it should be possible to do upsells.
deanclatworthy 7y ago
Having travelled a couple of times on overnight trains from Austria to other European cities, these sleeping pods look marginally a larger improvement. - Tempeature: Having slept in a cabin where the aircon blasts from the bottom into those sleeping there, they inevitably have to turn it off to sleep, leaving those on the top bunks at temperatures of over 40C in the summer. - Noise/Privacy: In the 4-bunk cabins, I don't want to hear anyone either. Why wouldn't they include the soundproofing curtains in those too. - Space: There's a tiny gap between the beds currently. Look closely and this is also the case. It's impossible having more than 1 person do anything inbetween the beds and stepping out of your own pretty much puts you about 1foot away from the other person's face/legs. Maybe someone can tell me why they can't just make lightweight carriages, and put a lot of them on the back of a train car (more than now). By having more carriages you can make the accommodation more spacious and comfortable. This is what stops me considering it as a viable option for European travel currently. Even if they couldn't fit in the station, what's to stop them letting half the carriages off first, followed by the second half?
- em-bee 7y ago
  trains longer than the station would double the time at each stop. that's not acceptable. but also, most stations are not designed to have trains longer than the station. a station usually has more platforms than the two rails that feed it. an overlong train would frequently block other trains coming in at other platforms. the only thing that would work is to have two trains on the same route in a short delay from each other. say half an hour. however, for all of this the real problem is cost. i believe germany dropped all overnight trains because they weren't getting used enough compared to high-speed trains. it's interesting that austria bought them, but i guess with austrias lack of high-speed trains, overnight trains are still useful.
  - deanclatworthy 7y ago
    Two trains would suit me just fine. Or three. As long as they are serving customers I don't see the problem. I'd guess people weren't using them because they are so cramped and uncomfortable. I would bet they could be economical and comfortable when the whole process is designed from scratch. I don't think this exercise feels like that.
learc83 7y ago
Looks very nice, but I don't like the table design. The extensions that pull out look like they don't provide a continuous level surface, which would just be a pain to use. Amtrak (at least the cars on the Acela Express) has a much better design where each side of the table flips up when you want to enter or exit the seat. It doesn't look quite as nice when folded up, but it is much more functional. https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/images/TextwithImage-Horizontal/RS1000_business_handicapped.jpg/_jcr_content/renditions/cq5dam.web.506.380.jpeg https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/p...
munificent 7y ago
I recently took a train from Seattle to Portland with my family. One difference compared to flying that it took me a while to realize was how amazingly quiet it is. On a plane, the engines are right there out on the wing screaming and conducting that sound directly into the airframe next to you. With a train, the engine is way up front, hundreds of yards a way, separated by several linkages. The end result is that a train car is as quiet as a coffee shop. I love it.
- legitster 7y ago
  Love that route. Also, on a train the ride is so much smoother - no starts or stop or dealing with traffic. The pricing is nuts, though. A one way train ticket for that route is $36. The same trip via car takes about the same amount of time and $20 in gas. The train is a nice luxury for one person, but for the whole family it becomes very expensive. Passenger rail in the US is absurd.
  - rebuilder 7y ago
    Unfortunately, compared to Finland at least, that pricing seems pretty normal, maybe even on the cheap side. (It's apparently a roughly 5.5 h drive?) Long-distance rail travel seems to be fairly expensive. Is that kind of trip cheaper somewhere comparable?
    - erikpukinskis 7y ago
      The thing in the US is that almost everyone already owns a car (so that’s considered sunk cost) and the cost of fuel is heavily subsidized. So that’s the comparison I guess. It’s not fair, but it’s also sort of reasonable, given car ownership here.
      - moneytalks 7y ago
        Fuel in the US is subsidized? I thought it was heavily taxed (not compared to European countries but compared to other consumer goods).
stcredzero 7y ago
I wonder if digitally linked convoys of cars and vehicles could replicate the smoother and quieter experience of trains, even on busy highways? The idea would be to use several "buffer cars" in front of the convoy of passenger busses. The entire convoy would be inter-linked and centrally controlled, so the "buffer cars" could accordion closer together and farther apart, so the passenger busses could use lighter braking acceleration. Build the busses with lots of sound damping and actively damped suspensions, and the experience could come close to that of a train. The buffer cars would take up some additional highway area, but the passenger density of the convoy as a whole could still exceed private passenger cars.
ekianjo 7y ago
2x2 facing seats in standard class? What an horrible idea - I have never understood why this was a standard in about every wagon since most of the time when you get this seat you get to share it with strangers, and lack leg space to feel comfortable.
- rebuilder 7y ago
  It's good for groups and families. I'd expect not all seats are arranged that way.
  - ekianjo 7y ago
    It's not, but my point still stands: by far and large there are way too many seats in that configuration compared to the planned utility for it. You end up with regular passengers having to fit such seats and having a miserable experience. It never happens on a flight.
Havoc 7y ago
Really enjoyed a recent European rail trip but quickly discovered mixing flight and rail is problematic if the links between airport and train station suck
- 205guy 7y ago
  The French tried: both Paris CDG and Lyon airports have TGV stations in them. There was a time the trains were even code-shared and you could book them as regular connections. It was very convenient when it worked, for example from the US to other cities or ski resorts in France. But that was 10 years ago, and I haven't looked into it recently, so I'm not sure if they developed it or not.
ianbooker 7y ago
Finally I see someone realizing the "hovering" seats in a train. Anytime I sit in a train, I wonder why they have not done so for the last 30 years or so. While they state its for luggage and design purposes, I just think: Its so much easier to clean. Even automatically ;)
- Dunedan 7y ago
  > Anytime I sit in a train, I wonder why they have not done so for the last 30 years or so. My guess: Ease of installation and for stability reasons. Bolting the seats to the outer frame probably requires much more consideration than simply bolting them to the floor.
lbriner 7y ago
One of the things that doesn't appear to have any real innovation is luggage space and the speed of loading. Get on any long-distance train or Eurostar service and you can wait minutes for people to drag 4 suitcases, trying to find space. Even on the Eurostar where you would expect most people to have a lot of luggage, there is often not much room at all. We used to have luggage vans back in the olden days!
sb057 7y ago
Those landscape images bear a striking resemblance to Albert Bierstadt's paintings of the American West[1], but I don't want to go pointing fingers... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_works_by_Albert_Bierstadt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_works_by_Albert_Bierst...
objektif 7y ago
As a side note recently traveled from US to Austria. I was blown away by how clean, beautiful and affordable the country is. But we can’t have the things they have over there cuz “who is gonna pay for it”?
nneonneo 7y ago
I slept on a fair number of sleeper trains during multiple trips to China. It’s basically the most popular way to get around the country. A few years ago, Xuzhou-Xi’an, a 10 hour trip, was priced at 315¥ (around $50 USD) for each “soft bed” (four soft beds to a room), which was perfect for a travelling family. Recently, the high-speed rail lines have started to shift things in favor of daytime trips between large cities (Beijing-Xuzhou used to be 7 hours by sleeper train, but it’s now 2.5 hours by bullet train). But, the train remains the best way to travel within the country. It’s smooth, quite cheap (esp. for an American traveler), and increasingly comfortable.
meddlepal 7y ago
Those chairs do not look comfortable. No lumbar support!
Arete314159 7y ago
Why can't we have nice things in America
Animats 7y ago
Compare the 20th Century Limited, 1930s version.[1] [1] https://s.hdnux.com/photos/77/13/43/16562379/3/1024x1024.jpg https://s.hdnux.com/photos/77/13/43/16562379/3/1024x1024.jpg

235 points by Osiris30 7y ago

Sleeper trains make so much sense for travel over land. They are often competitively priced with air travel, they pollute a lot less and the time saved can be huge when you consider that you spend time travelling when you would otherwise be asleep (although this is sometimes true for air travel, many/most people find it difficult to get quality sleep in economy class). The London - Edinburgh sleeper train (Caledonian Express) has been running pretty much since 1873 and is an amazing way to get between the two cities. You arrive at the station in London between 10-12pm, depending on if you want to have a few snacks or glasses of wine, then wake up in Edinburgh around 8am the next day.

Freak_NL 7y ago
The Caledonian Express is definitely on my list of trains to travel by some day. Pretty soon (when the customs part is sorted out on the Amsterdam end) it will be possible to travel from Amsterdam to London directly on the Eurostar without transferring in Brussels, so that helps too for me as a Dutchman.
- arien 7y ago
  I've been on a fair amount of sleeper trains and the Caledonian has been the most comfortable so far. For the opposite, the most uncomfortable one to sleep in was the Hong Kong to Shanghai one. I paid extra for the Deluxe option, can't even imagine how hard the bed would have been on the lower classes. Still, was a pretty cool journey.
  - nhf 7y ago
    I think that's just an (northeast) Asian bed thing. Preferences trend firm for mattresses and you can see this in traditional or luxury places that don't cater to Westerners. The most deluxe ryokans in Japan still have relatively thin mats on the floor, business hotels in China and Japan often have former mattresses, and so on.
  - buckminster 7y ago
    I took a 44 hour train from Delhi to Bombay. The "bed" was a plastic-covered sheet of wood, like a cheap kitchen worktop. That was uncomfortable. I think it was standard class.
- telesilla 7y ago
  I took the train direct from London to Rotterdam a few days ago so I assume it goes straight to Amsterdam also. No customs required (unless brexit) and passport control was done at the point of departure.
  - ropiku 7y ago
    On the way back unfortunately you have to stop in Brussels because Amsterdam/Rotterdam do not have passport control for departure.
twic 7y ago
> many/most people find it difficult to get quality sleep in economy class I've only taken a sleeper train once (from Paris to Marseille), but i found it difficult to get quality sleep on that. There's noise, there's movement, and the mattress isn't terribly good. Train schedules don't necessarily fit well with your normal sleeping schedule. I'd much rather to the trip in a TGV and then spend the hours saved having a shower and a rest on arrival.
arethuza 7y ago
Worth pointing out that the sleepers don't terminate at Edinburgh - they continue further north to Fort William and Inverness - the former being the "Deerstalker": https://www.seat61.com/deerstalker.htm https://www.seat61.com/deerstalker.htm I have chatted (T-bars being quite sociable) to people who had come up for skiing on Cairngorm on the sleeper as well. Edit: Replaced "stop" with "terminate".
- phillc73 7y ago
  I'm pretty sure the Caledonian Sleeper to Fort William does stop at Edinburgh Waverley, just not terminate there.
  - arethuza 7y ago
    Corrected - I meant "doesn't terminate" rather than "doesn't stop" - I think the train splits somewhere to go its various ways.
    - gsnedders 7y ago
      The Highlander (to Aberdeen, Fort William, and Inverness) splits at Edinburgh Waverley (though that's not a passenger call); the Lowlander (to Edinburgh and Glasgow) splits at Carstairs Junction.
usrusr 7y ago
Problem is they really don't quite make as much sense for city pairings that don't fall into the narrow window of roughly one night of travel time. This severely limits the amount of mainstream awareness sleeper trains can reach, so people who don't routinely travel such a route won't have them on their radar when they do.
- Symbiote 7y ago
  Many sleeper trains stop at several places (just like a normal train does) until, say, 10pm. Then they travel for a long time overnight, and stop in several places in the morning. You can see the Caledonian Sleeper timetable at [1], it's also reasonable to catch it at Watford. It then stops at both Edinburgh and Glasgow (they have split the train in two further south). You can see the Highland train stops at many towns and villages. You do need to be a bit more alert if you're getting off the train before the terminus, but the attendant will almost always wake the passengers who are due to alight. [1] https://www.seat61.com/CaledonianSleepers.htm https://www.seat61.com/CaledonianSleepers.htm
- morsch 7y ago
  Well, pairings that fall below the window of 6 to 9 hours are short enough you don't need a sleeper train: sitting in a train for 3 to 5 hours is not that bad. Pairings that are above the window are turned into a 6 to 9 hour sleeper train ride plus a regular 3 to 5 hour ride that's not that bad.
atourgates 7y ago
The Caledonian Express is in the process of refreshing all their rolling stock as well. There have been some growing pains (the introduction has been delayed a few times, and isn't fleet-wide yet), but it seems like a significant upgrade. Excited for our first overnight train ride in their new hotel-room style sleeper cars (with a private bath and shower) later this summer. Even for a family of 6, when you factor in the (saved) cost of overnight acommodations in either London or Edinburgh, it was one of the most affordable ways to travel between those two cities.
adrianhon 7y ago
Beware: The Caledonian Sleeper is experiencing severe teething problems, including delayed boarding times (e.g. past midnight) and last-minute service cancellations. The trains were clearly rolled out with insufficient testing. If you're travelling on it in the next few months, hope for the best – but plan for the worst. Epic discussion thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/caledonian-sleeper.176365/page-111 https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/caledonian-sleeper.1763...
ekianjo 7y ago
> They are often competitively priced with air travel I traveled in sleeper trains in China, and while the experience was interesting, I can't really say it was comfortable or even pleasant. People would keep moving around at night, making noise, and the train would stop now and then and create noise on its own. It's slow and it only works if you are not too far from where you want to go anyway, unless you are ready to waste a long time to get there.
JadeNB 7y ago
> They are often competitively priced with air travel, Not in the US! I would love to travel by train whenever time permitted, but it is prohibitively expensive to travel by sleeper car.
- hahamrfunnyguy 7y ago
  I traveled from NY to LA via train with one planned stop-over. We had coach seats which were a little less expensive than air travel, so it's not really worth doing unless you're in it for the experience of it. It was an enjoyable experience tough, and we'd probably do it again on another route. While it would have been nicer to have a sleeper, the coach seats were pretty comfortable.
  - JadeNB 7y ago
    As someone who's done lots of long-haul (Texas–Chicago and Texas–Maryland) rides, one (or a few) long-distance coach trip is perfectly doable, and even enjoyable if you like train rides; but I feel that it gets unbearable pretty quickly as a regular occurrence. Also a big factor: travelling with an intimate (someone you can literally lean on) makes sleeping much easier, even in coach.
morsch 7y ago
I take sleeper trains occasionally between Germany and Austria. A plane ticket would be 30-50 EUR, a basic six-person sleeper cabin is 90 EUR, a private 2 person sleeper cabin is 160 EUR (x2, obviously). It's a great way to travel, but competitively priced it ain't.
mobilefriendly 7y ago
I've taken the Amtrak Autotrain from DC to Florida many times with a car and family. It is somewhat expensive (about $2,200 roundtrip for a family of four and car) and very unpleasant but I keep WISHING this time will be different...the US sleeping cars are ancient and covered in a film of grime. The tracks in the Carolinas are very rough and bumpy, sleep is difficult. Maybe someday we'll have sleeping cars like this but I think we'll have luxury self-driving sleeping buses displace America's terrible sleeping car rail option.
briandear 7y ago
> They are often competitively priced with air travel Not at all. London-Edinburgh is £65 on EasyJet and a 1 hour trip. A regular seat on the Caledonian Express is £45 for an 8 hour trip. The Caledonian Express en suite twin room is £280.00 > when you consider that you spend time travelling when you would otherwise be asleep I could fly Easy Jet for 1 hour for £65, and have money left over for a very comfortable hotel and a nice meal.

2sk21 7y ago

Given how bad domestic plane travel has become in the US, I suspect that many business trips may not be much slower even at Amtrak speeds.

NickM 7y ago
I've certainly found that to be the case when traveling to NYC. From where I live, a plane ride takes about an hour, and Amtrak takes about 6.5 hours...except that really, the total trip time ends up being about five hours for the plane and seven hours for the train. Flying involves driving twenty minutes to the airport, arriving early due to uncertain security wait times, going through security, waiting to board, boarding, taxiing, flying, taxiing, disembarking from the plane, and then even after all that you have to walk a long way through the airport, take the AirTrain to a different station, then get on yet another train to make it into Manhattan. The train, by contrast, involves leaving from downtown near where I live, sitting on the train, and arriving in Manhattan a few blocks from my office. It's so much simpler and more relaxing, and much easier to actually get work done during the trip, so oftentimes it's worth the extra couple of hours the trip takes. If we could invest in high-speed rail and make the whole train trip even, say, 30% faster, there would be no contest.

Freak_NL 7y ago

Österreichische Bundesbahnen (ÖBB) took over all remaining sleepers run by Deutsche Bahn (DB) some years ago. One downside of this was the dropping of the Amsterdam–Munich sleeper — ÖBB's nexus lies in Vienna. The Netherlands currently has no sleeper trains, which is rather unfortunate, because the sleeper train appears to gaining in popularity after a period of decline. Increasingly, people want to avoid flying if reasonably possible. A sleeper train is ideal, because you spend most of the trip asleep, and end up in Munich, Paris, Vienna, etc. early in the morning, in the middle of the city. Sure, it's not as comfortable as a hotel, but it beats the torture of flying (I'm 200cm tall), and train stations are just a lot more pleasant to be in than airports. These trains looks really nice.

distances 7y ago
Then problem of price still remains before wide popularity for sleepers or even just long daytrips. I'd love to use trains more often, but I'm not willing to pay through the nose. A trip in Central Europe I recently booked would've been over twice the price with a train, with maybe a couple of hours longer travel time when accounting for airport trips and waiting. Second class, just a daytime journey without sleeping. Timewise this would've been fine, but price is not competitive. I'm not sure if the problem is too cheap flights, or too expensive trains.
- m_mueller 7y ago
  I think there's probably some crossover point that makes it more expensive to house people for longer amounts of time with more space required on a train, compared to burn a bunch of hydrocarbons to boost them to 800kph and get rid of them as soon as possible. Not sure whether physics make cheaper pricing possible as long as externalities aren't fully factored into the price of fossil fuels (i.e. flying gets more expensive and trains stay the same).
- chappi42 7y ago
  Considering the melting arctic sea ice, the answer is easy. (Of course flights are not the only reason and I'm not saying that an individual shouldn't choose what is right for him/her, it's a policy/tax matter).

tomglynch 7y ago

There's been talk for a while about autonomous cars driving people throughout the night across countries/states for meetings the next day. Sleeper trains already do this. Sleeper trains are making a comeback as we become more aware of the impact of flying to the environment.

gpvos 7y ago
Nevertheless, the number of people taking the plane isn't going down, while that should be the real aim.

TKAB 7y ago

As a regular train traveller here in Austria and I'm very curious how this turns out. Currently the Intercity/RailJet trains are more like a downgrade to what was available before. They look nicer, but provide quite uncomfortable seating and offer no possibility to change the seating inclination; due to the air condition it's very noisy; there's no place to put your feet in an elevated position; there's no compartments, the whole car is one big room; and the only option for children is an open place with a TV, you have a lot of fun chasing your small children through the train.

the_mitsuhiko 7y ago
> Currently the Intercity/RailJet trains are more like a downgrade to what was available before. I strongly disagree with this. I really like the railjet. My issue is that it's still on an elevated platform which is super annoying if you have strollers. But in terms of comfort I think it's their best product yet. I definitely prefer that over the compartments that were there before.
acqq 7y ago
I'm sure I couldn't sleep in the upper bed here: https://www.priestmangoode.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/PriestmanGoode-OBB-Night-Train-First-Class.jpg https://www.priestmangoode.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Pr... Enclosing beds to make them a kind of cradle is bad. The good design would add space not stuff. There's a reason older trains didn't have that. Typical design made on computer that nobody tried to use (or not enough users to say how bad it is). I've also traveled in the newer trains in Europe that were significantly worse than the older, again for having less space everywhere. It's a bad trend.
- morsch 7y ago
  It looks fine to me? What's wrong with it? Many people are worried about falling out of the upper bed in sleeper cars. There's often a rail there. The "half cradle" offers the same protection against falling, while making it easier to get in from the foot end. It provides protection against light, noise and drafts. The foot end is a bit narrower than the overall bed, which is also a smart use of space and, again, makes getting into the bed easier. This is also the first sleeper cabin I've seen where the window seems to be parallel beside the bed as opposed to orthogonal at one end.

ixtli 7y ago

What I wouldn't give for even the slightest interested in the development of public transit infrastructure in the US :(

closeparen 7y ago
Amtrak runs extensive sleeper service around the US. I’ve taken San Francisco to Chicago - it’s quite nice, if you’re willing to burn some vacation days.
- ixtli 7y ago
  I am, and I plan to :)

keeganjw 7y ago

If only the US had trains this nice... One can dream. This really looks spectacular.

arien 7y ago
I did recently Chicago to Las Vegas with the Southwest Chief and, while it's not as shiny, it was still a lovely train (the cabins, the restaurant and the fantastic viewing lounge), with great service and quite comfy. It was a very enjoyable trip, would recommend it to anyone who loves train travel. Looking forward to taking the California Zephyr some day.
finolex1 7y ago
The new Acela Express trains don't look too shabby.
- vonmoltke 7y ago
  Of only we could get the tracks to take advantage of them. Oh, and cut several stops off it as well.

jschwartzi 7y ago

In the US I would take a sleeper train from Seattle to Chicago instead of a plane provided the sleeper train runs 180 mph on average. That would put me in Chicago in about 10-12 hours, meaning I could get to Union Station in Seattle, get on the train, sleep a full night, wake up, eat breakfast, and disembark in Chicago. The red-eye to Chicago, which is a comparable trip, really sucks because you only get about 3 hours of sleep in the most uncomfortable position imaginable. This means that you arrive in the city groggy and discombobulated. I would even pay airfare-level prices for that kind of service. And extra if there's a way to segregate families with small children from my cabin so I don't have to try to remain asleep while a toddler is screaming for 3 hours in the same cabin.

atoav 7y ago
I grew up in Central Europe and used the hell out of night trains. It is really one of the best ways to get around, if available.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
princekolt 7y ago
In Europe it is standard to have silent cabins, especially on first class.
CaptainZapp 7y ago
In the US I would take a sleeper train from Seattle to Chicago instead of a plane provided the sleeper train runs 180 mph on average. Not really doable for a lot of Austria and generally the Alpine regions. There are not many high speed tracks in Austria and Switzerland, the reason being that the countries are relatively small and that building high speed tracks through the alps is insanely expensive. Switzerland built two base tunnels through the alps: The Lötschberg[1] - and Gotthard[2] base tunnels, which are geared to a top speed of 250 km/h (ca. 155 miles/h) and a normal travel speed of 200 km/h (125). That's why it takes roughly 10 hours to get from Zurich to Vienna, but only 4 to get from Zurich to Paris (after Mulhouse the whole track is high speed capable and trains run with up to 320 kmh (200 m) on that track. Edited to add: Of course night trains make a lot of sense on that route. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%B6tschberg_Base_Tunnel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%B6tschberg_Base_Tunnel [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotthard_Base_Tunnel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotthard_Base_Tunnel

Grumbledour 7y ago

Those trains look nice, but at the same time pretty cramped and uncomfortable to me. I wonder if its just the photos, but the seats look to straight with not much legroom and the sleeper compartments seem really tiny.

deanclatworthy 7y ago
And the photos attached are primarily first-class seats too. I found it odd having two seats next to each other without an armrest or gap in-between. I would not want a stranger next to me without that space/divider.
- finolex1 7y ago
  There are arm rests between the seats if you look closely in the first few pictures. It seems like you have to pull them up from the seat bottom.

amit9gupta 7y ago

The images are computer generated graphics, not real photographs taken with a camera.

the_mitsuhiko 7y ago
Correct. This train is yet to come but there are pictures of model in 1:1 scale. https://schienenradler.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/1130081-001.jpg https://schienenradler.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/1130081-0... https://schienenradler.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/1130082-001.jpg https://schienenradler.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/1130082-0... https://schienenradler.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/1130097-001.jpg https://schienenradler.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/1130097-0...
ekianjo 7y ago
Expect vandalism to take place in such trains in no time when they get to operate.
- the_mitsuhiko 7y ago
  OeBB takes great care of their trains. If they get sprayed they are removed from service and cleaned.

joyjoyjoy 7y ago

Night sleeper train map http://www.night-trains.com/ http://www.night-trains.com/

api 7y ago

I wish we actually invested in domestic infrastructure in the US.

arien 7y ago

Slightly off-topic, but couldn't help but notice on the Projects list a really cool version of the London tube. Unfortunately it seems it's from 2014 (there's even some quote from Boris as Mayor), so probably scrapped by now? Makes me wonder if these Austrian train designs are already set in stone or just a proposal that might or might not happen.

the_mitsuhiko 7y ago
> Makes me wonder if these Austrian train designs are already set in stone or just a proposal that might or might not happen. I would assume they are pretty much set in stone. I was in a mock model they had standing around at Vienna central station. They got the budget and are currently ordering the trains.
estel 7y ago
Shockingly it's not been scrapped - the deep tube programme is, to some extent, unscrappable. They're currently due to enter service in about five years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Tube_for_London https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Tube_for_London
rkangel 7y ago
That design is extremely close to the new design of train in use on the circle line. The seating arrangement is a little different and they use monochrome LED signboards rather than LCD (for sensible reasons), but the continuous unobstructed design is there, along with actual aircon. It's an impressive sight to look from one end of the interior to the other when it's not full of people (and going straight).
- arien 7y ago
  Yeah, I've seen those, but they are slightly different and have been available for a few years already (I believe before 2014, the date of this project, but I could be wrong). I'm glad to see on the other reply that the plan hasn't been scrapped. Some of the lines could really use new trains (with proper air ventilation/filtering, especially).

dougmwne 7y ago

This design is wonderful and it reminds me a of 21st century version of this: https://www.belmond.com/trains/europe/venice-simplon-orient-express/ https://www.belmond.com/trains/europe/venice-simplon-orient-... Train travel can be absolutely luxurious in a way that a plane or self-driving car could never be. You don't even need to book a $3,000 historical reenactment to get a taste. On a whim, I once booked a 1st class AVE train in Spain for an extra $10 and ended up with bottomless wine/champagne and a several course dinner for 3 hours. Would I ride a chicken bus for 7 hours through Honduras? Sure, but there are points for style too.

joezydeco 7y ago
The information displays built into the viewing window frames are very nice, but you already know those will be the first things to get thrown out for cost and/or complexity.
- fyfy18 7y ago
  Or the first place where they will start blasting you with adverts.

dzhiurgis 7y ago

Elegant, comfortable travel across Europe * * For people exact height of 160cm

alkonaut 7y ago
The beds are surely at least 2m? What makes it uncomfortable for someone over 160?
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  Why are they 'surely' at least 2m? The beds on the Caledonian aren't that long. A standard (not King) bed is only 190 cm in most countries. You're not going to get a King-length bed on a train - that's not a reasonable expectation.
  - alkonaut 7y ago
    Im 180 and never felt a difference in length from my home bed to the sleeper train beds. They may be shorter but not so much that it bothered me. That’s why I assumed they were the same as home beds (standard length in Europe is 200).
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - gomox 7y ago
    Northern Europeans are very tall.
  - Symbiote 7y ago
    British trains are narrower than most in Continental Europe, the structure gauge (the width the train can be without crashing into tunnel walls, platforms and so on) is smaller. For example, a fairly recent British coach is 2.73m wide, but a German ICE is 2.85m wide, and a Danish/Swedish passenger coach is 2.97m wide. The difference is noticeable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_gauge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_gauge (Coach widths taken from searching "<Country> railway coach Wikipedia" and finding an infobox with the width.)

marapuru 7y ago

What a great design. I like the simplicity and the lightness of it all. One thing I don't understand is the private berths. > Private berths are fitted in both First and Standard Class carriages and can be booked for business passengers or families travelling together. They are completely transparent, nice for the lightness. But bad for privacy. I can see many reasons why a business meeting would not want prying eyes. For me it has been a common issue in the past to be traveling while working on private files. But having a person sitting next to you doesn't allow for enough privacy... So usually I just stopped working, while that could be a big plus of train travel.

gomox 7y ago
If you often do this there are privacy films for your computer screen that drastically reduce horizontal viewing angles and greatly improve privacy.

michaelbuckbee 7y ago

One high-level design choice that they made is to entirely skip any kind of in-seat entertainment and screens and instead of plan around people showing up with their own tablets and phones (to which they provide power). This makes immense sense to me and I'm sure simplifies things on their side.

alistairSH 7y ago
Agreed. Southwest Airlines does this in the US, with "free" wifi access to their entertainment app/portal. I much prefer it to the often terrible seat-back screens on some other carriers.
- ohples 7y ago
  I have even seen on some airlines (Alaska) that are doing away with seat backs screens on newer flights you can pay to rent a tablet if you don't already have one, want an extra one, etc.
- clarkmoody 7y ago
  Same with certain United flights. Stream movies onto your own phone from the plane's WiFi.
gomox 7y ago
I have never seen a train with in seat entertainment (other than looking out the window!). Is that even a thing?
- indeed30 7y ago
  It used to be a thing. https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/end-of-volo-tv-on-fgw-hsts.105535/ https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/end-of-volo-tv-on-fgw-h...
  - Theodores 7y ago
    They made the seats more claustrophobic even though they didn't stick out massively. They were not free so the only thing you could use them for realistically was the map. So yes, you could see where the train was for 2-3 minutes then it would go into 'attract mode' to try and get you to pay. I think that they were a solution looking for a problem. They could reboot the concept to use Apple Carplay/Android Auto. Train info is useful to have on hand and it should be possible to do upsells.

deanclatworthy 7y ago

Having travelled a couple of times on overnight trains from Austria to other European cities, these sleeping pods look marginally a larger improvement. - Tempeature: Having slept in a cabin where the aircon blasts from the bottom into those sleeping there, they inevitably have to turn it off to sleep, leaving those on the top bunks at temperatures of over 40C in the summer. - Noise/Privacy: In the 4-bunk cabins, I don't want to hear anyone either. Why wouldn't they include the soundproofing curtains in those too. - Space: There's a tiny gap between the beds currently. Look closely and this is also the case. It's impossible having more than 1 person do anything inbetween the beds and stepping out of your own pretty much puts you about 1foot away from the other person's face/legs. Maybe someone can tell me why they can't just make lightweight carriages, and put a lot of them on the back of a train car (more than now). By having more carriages you can make the accommodation more spacious and comfortable. This is what stops me considering it as a viable option for European travel currently. Even if they couldn't fit in the station, what's to stop them letting half the carriages off first, followed by the second half?

em-bee 7y ago
trains longer than the station would double the time at each stop. that's not acceptable. but also, most stations are not designed to have trains longer than the station. a station usually has more platforms than the two rails that feed it. an overlong train would frequently block other trains coming in at other platforms. the only thing that would work is to have two trains on the same route in a short delay from each other. say half an hour. however, for all of this the real problem is cost. i believe germany dropped all overnight trains because they weren't getting used enough compared to high-speed trains. it's interesting that austria bought them, but i guess with austrias lack of high-speed trains, overnight trains are still useful.
- deanclatworthy 7y ago
  Two trains would suit me just fine. Or three. As long as they are serving customers I don't see the problem. I'd guess people weren't using them because they are so cramped and uncomfortable. I would bet they could be economical and comfortable when the whole process is designed from scratch. I don't think this exercise feels like that.

learc83 7y ago

Looks very nice, but I don't like the table design. The extensions that pull out look like they don't provide a continuous level surface, which would just be a pain to use. Amtrak (at least the cars on the Acela Express) has a much better design where each side of the table flips up when you want to enter or exit the seat. It doesn't look quite as nice when folded up, but it is much more functional. https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/images/TextwithImage-Horizontal/RS1000_business_handicapped.jpg/_jcr_content/renditions/cq5dam.web.506.380.jpeg https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/p...

munificent 7y ago

I recently took a train from Seattle to Portland with my family. One difference compared to flying that it took me a while to realize was how amazingly quiet it is. On a plane, the engines are right there out on the wing screaming and conducting that sound directly into the airframe next to you. With a train, the engine is way up front, hundreds of yards a way, separated by several linkages. The end result is that a train car is as quiet as a coffee shop. I love it.

legitster 7y ago
Love that route. Also, on a train the ride is so much smoother - no starts or stop or dealing with traffic. The pricing is nuts, though. A one way train ticket for that route is $36. The same trip via car takes about the same amount of time and $20 in gas. The train is a nice luxury for one person, but for the whole family it becomes very expensive. Passenger rail in the US is absurd.
- rebuilder 7y ago
  Unfortunately, compared to Finland at least, that pricing seems pretty normal, maybe even on the cheap side. (It's apparently a roughly 5.5 h drive?) Long-distance rail travel seems to be fairly expensive. Is that kind of trip cheaper somewhere comparable?
  - erikpukinskis 7y ago
    The thing in the US is that almost everyone already owns a car (so that’s considered sunk cost) and the cost of fuel is heavily subsidized. So that’s the comparison I guess. It’s not fair, but it’s also sort of reasonable, given car ownership here.
    - moneytalks 7y ago
      Fuel in the US is subsidized? I thought it was heavily taxed (not compared to European countries but compared to other consumer goods).

stcredzero 7y ago

I wonder if digitally linked convoys of cars and vehicles could replicate the smoother and quieter experience of trains, even on busy highways? The idea would be to use several "buffer cars" in front of the convoy of passenger busses. The entire convoy would be inter-linked and centrally controlled, so the "buffer cars" could accordion closer together and farther apart, so the passenger busses could use lighter braking acceleration. Build the busses with lots of sound damping and actively damped suspensions, and the experience could come close to that of a train. The buffer cars would take up some additional highway area, but the passenger density of the convoy as a whole could still exceed private passenger cars.

ekianjo 7y ago

2x2 facing seats in standard class? What an horrible idea - I have never understood why this was a standard in about every wagon since most of the time when you get this seat you get to share it with strangers, and lack leg space to feel comfortable.

rebuilder 7y ago
It's good for groups and families. I'd expect not all seats are arranged that way.
- ekianjo 7y ago
  It's not, but my point still stands: by far and large there are way too many seats in that configuration compared to the planned utility for it. You end up with regular passengers having to fit such seats and having a miserable experience. It never happens on a flight.

Havoc 7y ago

Really enjoyed a recent European rail trip but quickly discovered mixing flight and rail is problematic if the links between airport and train station suck

205guy 7y ago
The French tried: both Paris CDG and Lyon airports have TGV stations in them. There was a time the trains were even code-shared and you could book them as regular connections. It was very convenient when it worked, for example from the US to other cities or ski resorts in France. But that was 10 years ago, and I haven't looked into it recently, so I'm not sure if they developed it or not.

ianbooker 7y ago

Finally I see someone realizing the "hovering" seats in a train. Anytime I sit in a train, I wonder why they have not done so for the last 30 years or so. While they state its for luggage and design purposes, I just think: Its so much easier to clean. Even automatically ;)

Dunedan 7y ago
> Anytime I sit in a train, I wonder why they have not done so for the last 30 years or so. My guess: Ease of installation and for stability reasons. Bolting the seats to the outer frame probably requires much more consideration than simply bolting them to the floor.

lbriner 7y ago

One of the things that doesn't appear to have any real innovation is luggage space and the speed of loading. Get on any long-distance train or Eurostar service and you can wait minutes for people to drag 4 suitcases, trying to find space. Even on the Eurostar where you would expect most people to have a lot of luggage, there is often not much room at all. We used to have luggage vans back in the olden days!

sb057 7y ago

Those landscape images bear a striking resemblance to Albert Bierstadt's paintings of the American West[1], but I don't want to go pointing fingers... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_works_by_Albert_Bierstadt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_works_by_Albert_Bierst...

objektif 7y ago

As a side note recently traveled from US to Austria. I was blown away by how clean, beautiful and affordable the country is. But we can’t have the things they have over there cuz “who is gonna pay for it”?

nneonneo 7y ago

I slept on a fair number of sleeper trains during multiple trips to China. It’s basically the most popular way to get around the country. A few years ago, Xuzhou-Xi’an, a 10 hour trip, was priced at 315¥ (around $50 USD) for each “soft bed” (four soft beds to a room), which was perfect for a travelling family. Recently, the high-speed rail lines have started to shift things in favor of daytime trips between large cities (Beijing-Xuzhou used to be 7 hours by sleeper train, but it’s now 2.5 hours by bullet train). But, the train remains the best way to travel within the country. It’s smooth, quite cheap (esp. for an American traveler), and increasingly comfortable.

meddlepal 7y ago

Those chairs do not look comfortable. No lumbar support!

Arete314159 7y ago

Why can't we have nice things in America

Animats 7y ago

Compare the 20th Century Limited, 1930s version.[1] [1] https://s.hdnux.com/photos/77/13/43/16562379/3/1024x1024.jpg https://s.hdnux.com/photos/77/13/43/16562379/3/1024x1024.jpg