11 ms·

You don't really want a million dollars

221 points by ryanwaggoner 16y ago

byoung2 16y ago
One of the hardest parts of just hopping on a plane to some exotic destination is figuring out what to do with your "stuff" back home. People think that with a million dollars they'll pay off the house, car, quit their jobs and travel the world. Instead, they should consider selling the car and house (or renting it out) and living abroad instead of traveling. I have stayed in the Philippines for months at a time for far less money than a weekend in New York or Vegas. If you don't have to pay $1000 a month for a car (loan, insurance, gas, maintenance), and $2000 for housing in the US (including gas, electricity, phone, Internet, etc.) traveling becomes much cheaper. Even better if you can do some freelancing remotely or have a small business that generates a few hundred bucks a month. I bet that 9 times out of 10, "I need more money" should really be rephrased as "I need less stuff"
- ryanwaggoner 16y ago
  In late 2007, my wife and I sold our car, quit our jobs, put our valuables and personal records in a storage space, sublet our apartment (for roughly what our rent cost), and then spent three months trekking around Asia. It's really not that hard if you don't have pets or kids.
  - gnaritas 16y ago
    > It's really not that hard if you don't have pets or kids. Which is a fucking enormous if. I'd bet at least half the people reading the post do have kids. Fuck, it's having kids that makes many dream of dropping everything and running away halfway around the world in the first place!
    - ryanwaggoner 16y ago
      I have no idea how doable it is or isn't with kids. I don't have kids, but I know that a lot of families have jumped off the ledge and managed to be just fine. I hope I have the courage to show my kids a life without boundaries.
      - maxawaytoolong 16y ago
        My sister has done this with her kids. The deal is they have to be a certain age. I'm thinking around 6 years old. Old enough to not require 100% upkeep, but young enough to not have much else going on. Kids pre-teen or older would rather be hanging out with their friends than accompanying their parents on their budget travel fantasy. Of course it depends on the kids, but don't forget that at a certain age, spending a lot of time trapped with parents is the last thing a kid wants to do, even if (especially if?) it's on a bus across Laos, or whatever.
- clistctrl 16y ago
  Very true, Here's PG's thoughts: http://www.paulgraham.com/stuff.html http://www.paulgraham.com/stuff.html
  - byoung2 16y ago
    Right on the money...The fact that Public Storage was only founded in 1972 is a testament to the fact that we are accumulating more stuff. I have a rule that if I haven't touched it in a year, I get rid of it. It will be easier to buy a new one than find the old one buried in a storage shed or closet.
- henry81 16y ago
  I have a collapsible table, inflatable mattress, laptop, and 24" monitor. Everything I own can fit in my car. I need more money. Sleeping on the floor was not fun. I have money, I'm just kind of uber frugal. It's a nice air mattress, though.
  - hvs 16y ago
    You need a chair.
  - ojbyrne 16y ago
    I find your list sort of strange, because you didn't include the car in it. You have a, b, c, d and a _car_.
  - Psyonic 16y ago
    And at least one cable to connect that monitor. I hate cables... so many cables
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
- qjz 16y ago
  I agree that a lot of people need less stuff. But the lifestyle you describe is minimalism for one. Minimalism for two is exponentially different, and minimalism for four is exponentially different to that. I need to keep my kids in one place for nine months out of the year, supply transport to conflicting events, and eventually secure them a decent post-secondary education. A million dollars would come in awfully handy. I personally don't have much stuff because I think hoarding is a disease. But we're moving into an era where the fulfillment we used to get from stuff is being provided virtually. I don't claim this is bad, but it requires monthly contractual obligations (for internet access and cellphone data plans). We value these experiences so highly that we are still willing to shell out a lot of cash, even though we no longer get anything physical in return, and it would all disappear in an instant if we stopped paying our bills. I don't think the appeal of a sudden windfall of a million dollars is going to disappear anytime soon.
  - jshen 16y ago
    I was about to post something similar but with less kindness. I really hate this self-righteous posts from people that have no kids and essentially no real responsibility except themselves. It's the height of arrogance to preach to other people from such a position.
    - qjz 16y ago
      I arrogantly procreated in my bid for total world domination until I was defeated by my arch nemesis, The Urologist. We're all condemned to preach from our own unique positions.
      - jshen 16y ago
        Empathy some of us have the ability to recognize this and realize that our position is not everyones, or even most peoples, or even realize that one day we might have kids too, and all those older people that say that life is completely different post kids might be right.
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
marknutter 16y ago
The "HN Users, please upvote this" banner at the bottom is disconcerting. If HN is becoming a place people are desperate to get their stories voted up on, I fear the quality is going to start decreasing dramatically in the coming months.
- wwortiz 16y ago
  > Hello there, fellow HN user! If you like this post, I'd really appreciate an upvote. That has been there for a while, I thought he might of changed that to what you wrote but as it is now, it is just asking if you like it to upvote it which is how hacker news works. You don't get this if you don't come from hacker news either.
  - marknutter 16y ago
    Do we really need a banner reminding us to upvote a story we like? I'm pretty sure all HNers understand how voting sites work.
    - wwortiz 16y ago
      No but this has been there for a long time and your previous comment was marking it as a coming downfall in hacker news.
- ZeroMinx 16y ago
  Agreed. I wont vote a story up because of this. Same as tweets with "Please RT". stfu, I will RT if I think it's worth spreading, not because you tell me to
- ryanwaggoner 16y ago
  That's a Wordpress plugin called "WP Greet Box" [1] and this message is only shown to users coming from HN, not everyone. Also, you'll be happy to know that I get grief for it every time one of my posts lands on the homepage :) I understand your concern, but it's really just a reminder to vote the article up if you enjoyed it. I frequently read good articles and then forget to vote them up because something else catches my attention. I really doubt anyone is swayed to upvote an article they didn't think worthy because of this message. Just the opposite: some hacker types get worked up because they seem to be allergic to promotion of any kind, and thus won't upvote the article, even though they would have otherwise. But I'm betting that the balance of people who upvote because they liked the article AND because they were reminded outweighs the anti-promotion crowd. Either way, I don't think it's a big deal. Sorry if it offended you. 1. http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/wp-greet-box/ http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/wp-greet-box/
artmageddon 16y ago
Good article, but I thought that the title / headline was slightly misleading. I think a better wording of it would've been, "You don't really need a million dollars." The impression that I got from it, before reading it, was that it was yet another instance of someone winning a large sum of money through a lottery or other contest, and completely blowing it all away due to lack of proper financial foresight / other bad habits(or even being worse off because of lavish lifestyles; e.g. Lenny Dykstra). That said, I agree with some parts of the post. If you can make it work, working for yourself in this field will give you the flexibility to live the kind of life you want if you make the proper adjustments. Once you do, seeing the world isn't as expensive as people may believe if you do the right research and strike a few good deals. It's not for everyone, though. While a couple of my friends, who work in health care(married with kids; one is an RN, the other a radiologist), can certainly try to make lifestyle changes to save more money so that they can travel, I don't know how they would be able to work for themselves.
cagenut 16y ago
Nuts to that, I'll take the million please. A million bucks, moderately levered and invested in rental property = cash flow for life. You won't live rich, but you'll sure cover your health insurance and some travel budget.
- ryanwaggoner 16y ago
  Ironically, I also wrote a post on this exact subject a few months ago: http://ryanwaggoner.com/2010/08/how-to-retire-at-30-on-1-million/ http://ryanwaggoner.com/2010/08/how-to-retire-at-30-on-1-mil... I was really responding to the claim that you can't retire on $1m in that post, whereas the post I wrote today is more about the idea that you might not need to "retire" at all...
- maqr 16y ago
  That sounds much more reasonable. I appreciate what the author is saying, but his thesis isn't really well supported: > Here’s the reality: if you’re not the type of person who can create freedom without a million dollars, you probably aren’t the kind of person who will get a million dollars. ... What? I'd be willing to guess that most people with a million dollars (which isn't really all that much money these days) probably have not put money second and freedom first. I know plenty of doctors and lawyers that are worth as much and work very hard. I don't know anyone who travels around free-spiritedly and is amassing large sums of money.
simon_ 16y ago
I really disagree with this. Far from being more than anybody needs, a million dollars is actually not enough to secure a dignified existence in the US. Sure... a "trip to Thailand" doesn't require a million dollars, but what if you want: Not to face bankruptcy if a major health problem arises? Not to worry about the cost of college for your children? To own a small home in NYC or SF? To afford competent legal representation if the need arises? And that doesn't even touch the reasons people want to be rich - like private jets and angel investing and art collecting and space tourism, etc. Have some imagination!
- ryanwaggoner 16y ago
  A million dollars is actually not enough to secure a dignified existence in the US. Nonsense: http://ryanwaggoner.com/2010/08/how-to-retire-at-30-on-1-million/ http://ryanwaggoner.com/2010/08/how-to-retire-at-30-on-1-mil... Not to face bankruptcy if a major health problem arises? Health insurance isn't that expensive unless you have a pre-existing condition [1]. I won't talk about the college and home ownership questions other than to say that families have figured out how to live happy, healthy lives on far, far less. Go to a good state school, get some scholarships, don't live in Manhattan. And you're only making my point: you don't really want the money. You want the things that you think only an abnormally large amount of money can buy. Sorry, but that just seems like lazy thinking to me. 1. And my sincere condolences to those that do. Seriously, that sucks and we need to fix the system somehow.
  - Alex3917 16y ago
    The cost of raising a kid right now if you want them to have a typical upper middle class upbringing is somewhere between 800k - 1.6M (2007 dollars) from birth to age 17. The exact figure depends on whether you want to send them to private school, whether you are feeding them all organic food, and a couple other things. Even the most basic middle class (no after school sports, summer camp, etc.) upbringing costs $500,000 - $635,000 from birth through college, with the range mostly depending on whether they go to a public or private university. source: http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB117288281789725533-WZk_5xPQiihWpVM8_WCB9I_GjM0_20070402.html?mod=tff_article http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB117288281789725533-WZ... edit: The second set of figures was from p.6 of Parenting, Inc., which I believe come from here: http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/Publications/CRC/crc2009.pdf http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/Publications/CRC/crc2009.pdf You can actually read the entire opening of Parenting, Inc. for free on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Inc-Pamela-Paul/dp/B003V1WDFA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1292874053&sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Inc-Pamela-Paul/dp/B003V1WDF...
charlesdm 16y ago
I'm going to do some travelling this year. I started remote freelancing recently, so this is pretty much perfect to combine with some travelling.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
kenjackson 16y ago
I think Ryan misses the point for most people. I do want a "million" dollars for freedom, but it's not just to go to Thailand. In fact I don't really like traveling, but I'd pay a lot if you could teleport me instantly. I want the freedom to work on what I want to work on AND to buy what I want. I'm tired of saying, "I won't get that TV now, because in 12 months that TV is coming out". Or "lets wait 8 months for the price to drop on that car". Or "do we really need a view?" It's not that I need less stuff. I'm fairly certain I want more new stuff (and I'll happy donate my old stuff). And it's not like I want to hike barefoot through rainforests. I generally want to spend time doing things like trying to build a new tablet OS. Or playing a full season of Madden as the Vikings. Or doing Sunday Times puzzles in less than five minutes. Or spend a month completely rewiring my houses to have incredible home automation. I frankly don't see how you do that stuff w/o money. I guess a "million" dollars or the ability to create things by thinking them up.
- callmeed 16y ago
  While I don't subscribe to your outlook, I at least applaud you for being honest. When this topic comes up, most people veil their desire for material things or a more luxurious lifestyle as "freedom".
  - sreitshamer 16y ago
    I'd like luxurious lifestyle (not showy, just high quality) and freedom, but I think they're mutually exclusive. I find it challenging to keep expensive lifestyle from chewing up too much money, which then limits my freedom.
- pedanticfreak 16y ago
  I think you're also missing some of the point though. You don't need a million dollars for any or all of those things you just listed. Add it all up and you're barely breaking a few thousand dollars. Sure you need money. He's not saying you don't need money. The point is that when people say they need to be arbitrarily wealthy because they want to eventually do Y, they can usually do Y for much, much less money than they think. In fact it is usually within their current means. So stop agonizing about not being rich and figure out how much you really need already.
tapiwa 16y ago
My biggest problem with most of the "I just need $1m" people I have met is twofold. One, most of them would have no idea how to use that million in a sustainable way. Take a look at all the lottery winners that end up broke. The article does touch on this ... you don't need a million dollars to do half the things that many people feel they will do when they miraculously land that million. Secondly, most people are not prepared to put in the kind of work that leads to a million dollar payoff. No, playing the lotto does not count. Getting a big payoff takes hard work, luck, and more hard & smart work. Far too many people are not prepared to pay the price of success.
djhworld 16y ago
Travelling on a shoe string budget is possible for people on modest incomes but it's not exactly living comfortably is it? People want a million dollars so they can live a comfortable life rather than trudging through life and then going to the grave. Yes, you could blow the lot on a car, house, long holiday etc but they're short term gains that won't really change your life that much. After all buying an expensive house will land you with expensive upkeep/running costs. A sensible person (here in the UK anyway) could pay themselves a healthy wage (£35k p/year tax free) for 20+ years and they can save the rest for retirement. The downside to this though is, once you've done a trip to Thailand and so on, I think boredom would probably set in so you'd want to spend the time after that doing something meaningful like working for a charity
mfukar 16y ago
Not to nitpick, but not everybody wants "a million dollars" to leave everything behind and travel. There's a lot of things one can do with "a million dollars"; and yeah, I want some of that too.
nchlswu 16y ago
This is more or less a question of lifestyle or philosophy and not a question about whether you need a million or not. I know i don't need a million bucks, but I'd sure like more than that. A friend of mine never cared about his money and is as happy as he can be. Right now he's travelling across the states with next to nothing. I envy the people who can enjoy what's truly necessary in our lives, but saying outright that those people who live this still have this ingenuity, discipline and proactivity to be successful is wrong. Forcing yourself to live a minimal lifestyle is different actually living it.
ck2 16y ago
Of course you want a million dollars. You just don't want the burden/responsibility that comes with it.
winternett 16y ago
I'd have no problem finding productive things to do with a million dollars. I wouldn't sit around wasting away either. If a million dollars fell into my lap, my biggest problem would be maintaining a straight face when everyone rushes to me with a sad story... Don't get me wrong, I'd definitely be charitable, but the hardest part in hanging on to money is preventing yourself from giving most of it away after that point. That being said, I don't believe in any sense of lottery providing opportunities for winning money. I don't trust the lottery system in any shape or form. And wishes of winning large sums of money only serves to set your ambition back in life, so I generally avoid it, unless powerball/megamils is above 200m, that is a thing worth gambling on.
- ryanwaggoner 16y ago
  And wishes of winning large sums of money only serves to set your ambition back in life, so I generally avoid it, unless powerball/megamils is above 200m, that is a thing worth gambling on. The first part of this sentence is so true, and the second part so false...
  - winternett 16y ago
    Of course, its added for comedic irony.
run4yourlives 16y ago
I find it rich (no pun intended) that a bunch of single folk can somehow assume it's easy to live these type of lifestyles if you have a wife and 2 kids. Sorry, but I'd rather have a million.
- shortlived 16y ago
  It's like if you're a parent then you shouldn't be reading HN or something...
- brc 16y ago
  As would I. Of course there is no point in having a million bucks as a single person. Yes, you'd probably just blow it. With a family? Million dollars to have a comfortable home mostly paid for, college tuition sorted, no concerns about healthcare costs. If I got a million dollars tomorrow, almost nothing would change. Because most of it would go into securing the future and giving me more time with the kids.
- p_nathan 16y ago
  I would like to have a million. Two, if I could get it... three I wouldn't turn down either. I have defined two very specific and (not too horribly) lavish goals: have $0.00 month-to-month debt and to own a house with some acreage in the American Rockies. But, more money can be put to use: collage scholarships, investing, hobbies, putting away for family, charities - If one is not wedded to the urban jet-set lifestyle, one can really stretch the money.
Maro 16y ago
But is it financially a good idea? Is it safe? What if you want to have a family?
Swannie 16y ago
You're right, I want about 5m. Not to retire on, but to remove the need to work to provide a roof and food. So I can risk working on all the things that interest me and them tanking big time.
nicolas_t 16y ago
Well you know what? I'm 27, I have lived in 9 countries for long periods of time (more than 3 months for 2 of them, more than 1 year for the rest), I've traveled around to a few other countries and, well now that I want to settle down I do want a million dollar. While it's not the only reason why I'm creating my own business, money is a big part of the motivation. Of course I love most of what I do [1], wasting my life doing something that I hate to earn money is also not a smart move. But, yes money is definitely something I want... For example, I want to be able to have my house, a place of my own that I can modify how I want it, not a place owned by some landlord who places a lot of restrictions on what I can do... I want to be able to go to the expensive 3 stars restaurants, stay at nice 5 stars hotels instead of cheap youth hostels... I want to enjoy luxuries.. [1] Unfortunately growing my business means having employees and delegating some of the fun part along with the boring parts. And managing is not my favorite part of the job.
ry0ohki 16y ago
I think tech people take for granted that other people can be as mobile as us. If you're currently working for minimum wage at a convenience store, you probably have very little in the way of skills or education, and there are so many barriers to just getting out from under your bills. Even traveling very cheap requires some savings, and most people have $0 in savings and many thousands of dollars in debt.
pathik 16y ago
I don't. A million dollars isn't cool. You know what's cool? A billion dollars.
rwhitman 16y ago
All the people I know who travel the most and I feel have the most exciting and interesting lives make less than $60k a year. Wealth is relative.
dwc 16y ago
I think that a lot of people are missing the main point of this article. And Ryan could have stated it a little more clearly. Here's my take on it: Some things cost money, but others don't. Many things that people, including me, want to change about their life require an investment in time, effort and thought. However, the first things that come to mind could be fixed with more money, even if those things are really symptoms of something deeper than cannot be fixed with money. Money problems are easy to think about, so we think about them more and see the solution quickly. Enough of that and we put money as a proxy for all solutions. If you really take a good look at your life and at your hopes and dreams, many things can be accomplished without that million dollars, and other things...can't. Having made that separation, there are things you can do to improve your life without the million dollars. Fixing some of those things may actually make it possible for you to make that million dollars rather than wasting your life by wishing to win the lottery. From kenjackson in this discussion: "I want the freedom to work on what I want to work on AND to buy what I want." Oh? And until that happens? What if you rearrange your life so that you can work on what you want, and then figure out a way to make lots of money from that? Isn't that how it happens in startups?
iuguy 16y ago
Since scaling my life back and tackling startup debt I've really managed to scale down my outgoings. Furthermore I've simultaneously lost my lust for new tech and become the worst guy I know to buy presents for. I don't really need a million dollars, but if I had it I'm fairly certain I'd get quite far with it.
oz 16y ago
No,you don't. I'm really tired of anti-money meme. Why is it so difficult for people to admit that many things in life come down to money? This isn't about being Gordon Gekko. You could have the purest heart, but it still takes cash to care. Some are fine with minimalism. More power to them. But I don't want to exist. I want to thrive. I'm 24. I realized a few years ago that my highest value in life is autonomy. I want to be able to wake up tomorrow, and say "Hey, I've never been to Sweden," and just hop on a plane, without worrying about a small matter called rent. What if your boss made you miserable every day, but you can't quit because of the mortgage. Is that any way to live? Me? I think I'd rather die. Albert Camus said it best: It is spiritual arrogance to believe that one can be happy without money. And I'm a pastor's son; so I should know. I like money. I want lots of it. A million dollars? Pftha! That isn't even what Felix Dennis called comfortably poor... </rant>
- ryanwaggoner 16y ago
  I'm 24. I realized a few years ago that my highest value in life is autonomy. I want to be able to wake up tomorrow, and say "Hey, I've never been to Sweden," and just hop on a plane, without worrying about a small matter called rent. I'm 28, and I could do that today if I wanted to. And surprise, surprise, I don't have a million dollars. That's my point. Figure out what you want and make it a priority. Don't spend your life working for a big payoff so you can then figure out what you want. You'll never get there.
  - abstractbill 16y ago
    Figure out what you want and make it a priority. I want more things out of life than can be easily prioritized. A million dollars would go a long way towards making it so I wouldn't have to make just one thing my priority.
  - rick888 16y ago
    "I'm 28, and I could do that today if I wanted to. And surprise, surprise, I don't have a million dollars. That's my point. Figure out what you want and make it a priority. Don't spend your life working for a big payoff so you can then figure out what you want. You'll never get there." I don't want to work for anyone again. Do I need a million dollars? probably not, but I'm going to need a business that has enough income coming in to support my (and possibly anyone that works for me).
Xurinos 16y ago
I do. From the extremely rich, I heard something along these lines: "When you have money, money is not an issue." If you want to have, try, or do something NOW, money can make it happen. No waiting. Life is short. In exchange for money, I would have time. I would be liberated to pursue other things, to answer the call of other motivations. I picture it much like Maslow's Hierarchy: pierce the resource barrier, and you have ventured into the next level. The acquisition of resources and services in general is no longer an issue. Now we are in the realm of the rare, and our internal motivations/desires guide us more. No need to worry about what kind of insurance you have. No need to pause to ask if you can afford to take an ambulance. No need to decide between this or that. No more dreaming about taking a rocket to the moon. This is another way to say "freedom", but a general "freedom" is incorrect. There is always the next problem, the next desire. Remove money as a block, and many issues are resolved, while new issues enter the picture. Of course, a million dollars does not buy all that, but it could sure get me out of my debts and bolster my current investments! Yes, I really want a million dollars. A million dollars buys me time, my most precious resource, time I did not have to spend making that million.
- oz 16y ago
  Simple as that, my friend. Well said. One time I was watching HGTV with my sister. A couple bought a new house because they wanted a kitchen witha view of the ocean. She was incredulous, but I told her that's the very point of money-doing whatever you want to do.
mattm 16y ago
This discussion reminds me of a quote: "Young people trade their time and health for money, only to later trade that money for time and health."
sigstoat 16y ago
a million would let me pay off the loan on my business, and remodel to increase lab space, so i could hire more people, and create more jobs. so yeah, me and all my filthy capitalist buddies will take the million.
fistofjohnwayne 16y ago
This is the whitest thing I've ever read.
mgrouchy 16y ago
I kind of look at it differently. I don't feel the need to own a ton of stuff(even though myself and my fiance recently bought a small home) my main monetary goal is to eventually have enough money so that I never have to worry about having money :) Sounds kind of weird, but I don't spend my money on much stuff, but I like to travel once or twice a year and eat out with my fiance a couple of times a month. However much money it is that I can pay for my current place to live and do those things and never have to worry about it, then thats the right amount of money.
edw519 16y ago
Interesting post. Let me rephrase the question: What amount of money would it take to solve my biggest problems? Here are my biggest problems: 1. My father had a massive stroke and died. I miss him. 2. My mother has severe dementia and now acts like a toddler. I miss her too, in a strange way. 3. In the past 8 years, I have lost 5 close friends and family members including the cousin I grew up with who died very young of pancreatic cancer. I miss them all. 4. I have 3 loved ones with significant health problems. I wish there was more I could do to help. Better yet, I wish the would all just get well. 5. I love to build software and would like to build more, better, and faster. 6. The Pittsburgh Steelers (American football) lost yesterday. I'm crushed. I have struggled with how more money could help (or have helped) with numbers 1 through 4, but I'm not quite sure how. If I had more money, I could hire a bunch of people to help me with #5, but I think we're all learning that the correlation between having a lot of money and building lots of great software is becoming a very loose one. I need a billion dollars to buy the Steelers and run them the way they should be run. I need another billion to pay the referees. In the meantime, I'll just sit and suffer on Mondays like this.
- stcredzero 16y ago
  Donate: http://www.sens.org/ http://www.sens.org/ Likely this won't help you or me and it won't help your mom or dad, but it might help a lot of people someday.
  - borism 16y ago
    not before reading this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategies_for_Engineered_Negligible_Senescence#Scientific_controversy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategies_for_Engineered_Negli...
- runT1ME 16y ago
  Why don't you apply to work for a software company that intersects with the health industry. I really think they need all the help they can get from smart tech people. First one that came to mind: http://www.pictureofhealth.com/ http://www.pictureofhealth.com/
jodrellblank 16y ago
"You don't want a million dollars, you just want to be happy and if you're resourceful you can do that without it. Unless you do want a million dollars in which case you're too stupid to get it or to rearrange your life to be happy without it. Sucks to be you I guess. Did I tell you about all that time I spent freelance travelling yet?"
roadnottaken 16y ago
"A young man without power or money is completely free. He has nothing, but he also has everything. He can travel, he can drift. He can make new acquaintances every day, and try to soak up the infinite variety of life. He can seduce and be seduced, start an enterprise and abandon it, join an army or flee a nation, fight to preserve an existing system or plot a revolution. He can reinvent himself daily, according to the discoveries he makes about the world and himself. But if he prospers through the choices he makes, if he acquires a wife, children, wealth, land, and power, his options gradually and inevitably diminish. Responsibility and commitment limit his moves. One might think that the most powerful man has the most choices, but in reality he has the fewest. Too much depends on his every move." --Mark Bowden, from Tales of the Tyrant: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/print/2002/05/tales-of-the-tyrant/2480/ http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/print/2002/05/tales-of-t...
dools 16y ago
I've just been skimming through all the comments here and I really think that a lot of you are missing the point of this article because you're focussing on that fact that you know just what you would do with $1,000,000 and how much of a positive effect all these things would have on your life. You're focussing on finding edge cases of people who genuinely need exactly $1,000,000 to pay off a bunch of things that are holding them back that are to the value of $1,000,000 (but even then, there's plenty of places you can abscond to if you want to escape debt - you just may not be welcome to return :) The essential message in this article is lateral thinking. It's about looking at the mountain in front of you and noticing that there is a way around it instead of having to climb all the way up to the top and go back down the other side. Of course there are people and situations where this doesn't apply. The title of the article "YOU don't really want a million dollars" naturally invites these comments because he's addressing a large audience of people, many of whom may have legitimate needs for that amount of money. If it were me writing it I would have maybe phrased it as "Do you really want a million dollars?" and focused on the fact that the question is addressed specifically to the guy at the store who wanted a million to solve "all his problems" in some abstract way. That million dollars that will solve everything IS lazy thinking. It allows you to say "unless I have that million, I can't possibly solve my problems" without ever giving any real thought, or doing any real research, into whether or not there is an alternative way to solve your problems other than "getting a million dollars" which for most people is an impossibility. I personally think that the author could have done a better job with this article because although I came to agree with it's premise after reading it twice then reviewing the comments, I was also initially thrown off the scent by listing all of the things I'd do with a million dollars if I had it.
patrickaljord 16y ago
You're right, I want a hundred of them ;)
- waterlesscloud 16y ago
  What's that line from the movie DISCLOSURE? "Give a man a hundred million dollars and you make a frustrated billionaire. " Seriously, though...so what if having money doesn't satisfy you and leaves you wanting more? Why is it taken as a given that being satisfied is a good thing?
6ren 16y ago
When I make a list of the things I'd like to do, but aren't, money is never the main barrier. It's things like... well... courage, faith, trust. I've actually had enough money at one point to retire (living on passive income), and it didn't make me happy at all. In fact, I stepped back from life a little, and it made me less happy. For me, in my present level of "spiritual wisdom" (for want of a better term), needing money seems to be a helpful motivation. I also observe what so many people do who make a lot of money do: keep on doing whatever it was they were doing.
ojbyrne 16y ago
But of course you need affiliate links. Kind of undermines the message.
pjhyett 16y ago
Growing up with two parents constantly stressed and fighting about money, having financial security is about the most calming thing I could imagine. For me, it's less about being able to do extravagant things, and more about never having to worry about it. Do you need a million dollars to achieve financial security? Perhaps not, but it certainly wouldn't hurt.
- timwiseman 16y ago
  I have to agree. Knowing that you have enough money to not worry about money would be incredibly liberating, even if I only maintained my current standard of living and changed nothing about what I actually do. Even if I never exercised the options, having that kind of money would give you options you wouldn't have otherwise.
petercooper 16y ago
I agree with the general point but.. I actually do want a million dollars for something specific ;-) My family wants to move to the US (from the UK) and I want to continue working solely for myself. I could come up with a clever investment using the E-2 visa but that'd realistically take a cpl hundred thousand and then involve renewing/funding a business/etc. Or I could spend $500k-$1m on an EB-5 depending on locality. Beyond that, we'd need extra money to cover how expensive the US is. So, yeah, we could do with a million <g>
sayemm 16y ago
I think Chris Dixon said it best in this tweet: http://twitter.com/cdixon/status/13437285168 http://twitter.com/cdixon/status/13437285168 "People capable of making enough money to never work again are the same people who will never quit working."
nazgulnarsil 16y ago
yes, yes I do. the average moron might not have any use for money (observe lottery winner's behavior) but any reasonably educated person should.
sliverstorm 16y ago
Very few people want, need, or are even wishing for exactly one million dollars, and zero cents. '1 million dollars' is just a placeholder for 'enough money' that originated in a time long past. It's a bias that's not hard to detect. If I examine my own thoughts, I find that 'millionaire' is almost synonymous with 'arbitrarily wealthy' while 'billionaire' and 'trillionaire' don't really hold meaning beyond the literal definition.
didip 16y ago
tl;dr - I agree with the article. Get shit done to make yourself happy. When reading a few responses here, I'm taken back with the comment "It's easy for you to preach, you don't have kids". In real life, I heard similar sentiments. I'm having a hard time trying to understand the feeling when people said such things. Having kids is a choice, no? The same thing with living über-minimalistic life. People who don't have kids may have serious problems too. Me and my wife, we don't have kids. But what we do have in terms of problems: 1. Selfish, arrogant, and wasteful parents. We helped them a lot and never received a single thanks. They love to have elaborate parties even though they are broke. 2. A 14 years old sister. Amazingly selfish little brat, complete disconnect between what she wants and what our parents could provide. Fucking android for 14 years old, what for? I cannot imagine her coding up some android app. I don't have a million dollar and far from it. When I was 26, I swallowed the "American Dream" Kool-aid bottoms up and really needed that 1 million dollar: We bought a big house, with .25 acre land. We owned 3 cars. I did all the stupid things that can only happen if you own a house: upgrading HVAC, kitchen, etc. etc. Only 1 thing I did that wasn't stupid: paying for wife's school. Now, we don't own TV, 1 car, 1 couch, < 700 sqft apartment, 2 cats, and 0-10 minutes commute. When we went through the transformation, crazy things happen. My sisters respect me a lot more. When they want superfluous things and I said no, they listen far more than they ever did. Crazy things happen with the parents too. They listened, twice, when I told them about the elaborate parties. Not needing money empowered me far more than money ever did. And I'm quite sure that I'm not unique in that regard. My future kids won't have lawn to run around or the latest apple gadgets to pimp around. Their life won't be govern by money. This plan may or may not work, my real life friends would be the judge of that. To drive my points further, unrelated to my life story, several tech co-founders have told me directly. "The best time to raise money, is when you don't need money". Extra brownie point: To buy freedom into United States (the easy way), you really need a million dollar. http://bit.ly/9RItQM http://bit.ly/9RItQM
Charuru 16y ago
Nah, you don't want a million dollars. Some people do: http://maxkle.in/do-you-really-want-to-be-rich/ http://maxkle.in/do-you-really-want-to-be-rich/

221 points by ryanwaggoner 16y ago

One of the hardest parts of just hopping on a plane to some exotic destination is figuring out what to do with your "stuff" back home. People think that with a million dollars they'll pay off the house, car, quit their jobs and travel the world. Instead, they should consider selling the car and house (or renting it out) and living abroad instead of traveling. I have stayed in the Philippines for months at a time for far less money than a weekend in New York or Vegas. If you don't have to pay $1000 a month for a car (loan, insurance, gas, maintenance), and $2000 for housing in the US (including gas, electricity, phone, Internet, etc.) traveling becomes much cheaper. Even better if you can do some freelancing remotely or have a small business that generates a few hundred bucks a month. I bet that 9 times out of 10, "I need more money" should really be rephrased as "I need less stuff"

ryanwaggoner 16y ago
In late 2007, my wife and I sold our car, quit our jobs, put our valuables and personal records in a storage space, sublet our apartment (for roughly what our rent cost), and then spent three months trekking around Asia. It's really not that hard if you don't have pets or kids.
- gnaritas 16y ago
  > It's really not that hard if you don't have pets or kids. Which is a fucking enormous if. I'd bet at least half the people reading the post do have kids. Fuck, it's having kids that makes many dream of dropping everything and running away halfway around the world in the first place!
  - ryanwaggoner 16y ago
    I have no idea how doable it is or isn't with kids. I don't have kids, but I know that a lot of families have jumped off the ledge and managed to be just fine. I hope I have the courage to show my kids a life without boundaries.
    - maxawaytoolong 16y ago
      My sister has done this with her kids. The deal is they have to be a certain age. I'm thinking around 6 years old. Old enough to not require 100% upkeep, but young enough to not have much else going on. Kids pre-teen or older would rather be hanging out with their friends than accompanying their parents on their budget travel fantasy. Of course it depends on the kids, but don't forget that at a certain age, spending a lot of time trapped with parents is the last thing a kid wants to do, even if (especially if?) it's on a bus across Laos, or whatever.
clistctrl 16y ago
Very true, Here's PG's thoughts: http://www.paulgraham.com/stuff.html http://www.paulgraham.com/stuff.html
- byoung2 16y ago
  Right on the money...The fact that Public Storage was only founded in 1972 is a testament to the fact that we are accumulating more stuff. I have a rule that if I haven't touched it in a year, I get rid of it. It will be easier to buy a new one than find the old one buried in a storage shed or closet.
henry81 16y ago
I have a collapsible table, inflatable mattress, laptop, and 24" monitor. Everything I own can fit in my car. I need more money. Sleeping on the floor was not fun. I have money, I'm just kind of uber frugal. It's a nice air mattress, though.
- hvs 16y ago
  You need a chair.
- ojbyrne 16y ago
  I find your list sort of strange, because you didn't include the car in it. You have a, b, c, d and a _car_.
- Psyonic 16y ago
  And at least one cable to connect that monitor. I hate cables... so many cables
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
qjz 16y ago
I agree that a lot of people need less stuff. But the lifestyle you describe is minimalism for one. Minimalism for two is exponentially different, and minimalism for four is exponentially different to that. I need to keep my kids in one place for nine months out of the year, supply transport to conflicting events, and eventually secure them a decent post-secondary education. A million dollars would come in awfully handy. I personally don't have much stuff because I think hoarding is a disease. But we're moving into an era where the fulfillment we used to get from stuff is being provided virtually. I don't claim this is bad, but it requires monthly contractual obligations (for internet access and cellphone data plans). We value these experiences so highly that we are still willing to shell out a lot of cash, even though we no longer get anything physical in return, and it would all disappear in an instant if we stopped paying our bills. I don't think the appeal of a sudden windfall of a million dollars is going to disappear anytime soon.
- jshen 16y ago
  I was about to post something similar but with less kindness. I really hate this self-righteous posts from people that have no kids and essentially no real responsibility except themselves. It's the height of arrogance to preach to other people from such a position.
  - qjz 16y ago
    I arrogantly procreated in my bid for total world domination until I was defeated by my arch nemesis, The Urologist. We're all condemned to preach from our own unique positions.
    - jshen 16y ago
      Empathy some of us have the ability to recognize this and realize that our position is not everyones, or even most peoples, or even realize that one day we might have kids too, and all those older people that say that life is completely different post kids might be right.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]

marknutter 16y ago

The "HN Users, please upvote this" banner at the bottom is disconcerting. If HN is becoming a place people are desperate to get their stories voted up on, I fear the quality is going to start decreasing dramatically in the coming months.

wwortiz 16y ago
> Hello there, fellow HN user! If you like this post, I'd really appreciate an upvote. That has been there for a while, I thought he might of changed that to what you wrote but as it is now, it is just asking if you like it to upvote it which is how hacker news works. You don't get this if you don't come from hacker news either.
- marknutter 16y ago
  Do we really need a banner reminding us to upvote a story we like? I'm pretty sure all HNers understand how voting sites work.
  - wwortiz 16y ago
    No but this has been there for a long time and your previous comment was marking it as a coming downfall in hacker news.
ZeroMinx 16y ago
Agreed. I wont vote a story up because of this. Same as tweets with "Please RT". stfu, I will RT if I think it's worth spreading, not because you tell me to
ryanwaggoner 16y ago
That's a Wordpress plugin called "WP Greet Box" [1] and this message is only shown to users coming from HN, not everyone. Also, you'll be happy to know that I get grief for it every time one of my posts lands on the homepage :) I understand your concern, but it's really just a reminder to vote the article up if you enjoyed it. I frequently read good articles and then forget to vote them up because something else catches my attention. I really doubt anyone is swayed to upvote an article they didn't think worthy because of this message. Just the opposite: some hacker types get worked up because they seem to be allergic to promotion of any kind, and thus won't upvote the article, even though they would have otherwise. But I'm betting that the balance of people who upvote because they liked the article AND because they were reminded outweighs the anti-promotion crowd. Either way, I don't think it's a big deal. Sorry if it offended you. 1. http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/wp-greet-box/ http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/wp-greet-box/

artmageddon 16y ago

Good article, but I thought that the title / headline was slightly misleading. I think a better wording of it would've been, "You don't really need a million dollars." The impression that I got from it, before reading it, was that it was yet another instance of someone winning a large sum of money through a lottery or other contest, and completely blowing it all away due to lack of proper financial foresight / other bad habits(or even being worse off because of lavish lifestyles; e.g. Lenny Dykstra). That said, I agree with some parts of the post. If you can make it work, working for yourself in this field will give you the flexibility to live the kind of life you want if you make the proper adjustments. Once you do, seeing the world isn't as expensive as people may believe if you do the right research and strike a few good deals. It's not for everyone, though. While a couple of my friends, who work in health care(married with kids; one is an RN, the other a radiologist), can certainly try to make lifestyle changes to save more money so that they can travel, I don't know how they would be able to work for themselves.

cagenut 16y ago

Nuts to that, I'll take the million please. A million bucks, moderately levered and invested in rental property = cash flow for life. You won't live rich, but you'll sure cover your health insurance and some travel budget.

ryanwaggoner 16y ago
Ironically, I also wrote a post on this exact subject a few months ago: http://ryanwaggoner.com/2010/08/how-to-retire-at-30-on-1-million/ http://ryanwaggoner.com/2010/08/how-to-retire-at-30-on-1-mil... I was really responding to the claim that you can't retire on $1m in that post, whereas the post I wrote today is more about the idea that you might not need to "retire" at all...
maqr 16y ago
That sounds much more reasonable. I appreciate what the author is saying, but his thesis isn't really well supported: > Here’s the reality: if you’re not the type of person who can create freedom without a million dollars, you probably aren’t the kind of person who will get a million dollars. ... What? I'd be willing to guess that most people with a million dollars (which isn't really all that much money these days) probably have not put money second and freedom first. I know plenty of doctors and lawyers that are worth as much and work very hard. I don't know anyone who travels around free-spiritedly and is amassing large sums of money.

simon_ 16y ago

I really disagree with this. Far from being more than anybody needs, a million dollars is actually not enough to secure a dignified existence in the US. Sure... a "trip to Thailand" doesn't require a million dollars, but what if you want: Not to face bankruptcy if a major health problem arises? Not to worry about the cost of college for your children? To own a small home in NYC or SF? To afford competent legal representation if the need arises? And that doesn't even touch the reasons people want to be rich - like private jets and angel investing and art collecting and space tourism, etc. Have some imagination!

ryanwaggoner 16y ago
A million dollars is actually not enough to secure a dignified existence in the US. Nonsense: http://ryanwaggoner.com/2010/08/how-to-retire-at-30-on-1-million/ http://ryanwaggoner.com/2010/08/how-to-retire-at-30-on-1-mil... Not to face bankruptcy if a major health problem arises? Health insurance isn't that expensive unless you have a pre-existing condition [1]. I won't talk about the college and home ownership questions other than to say that families have figured out how to live happy, healthy lives on far, far less. Go to a good state school, get some scholarships, don't live in Manhattan. And you're only making my point: you don't really want the money. You want the things that you think only an abnormally large amount of money can buy. Sorry, but that just seems like lazy thinking to me. 1. And my sincere condolences to those that do. Seriously, that sucks and we need to fix the system somehow.
- Alex3917 16y ago
  The cost of raising a kid right now if you want them to have a typical upper middle class upbringing is somewhere between 800k - 1.6M (2007 dollars) from birth to age 17. The exact figure depends on whether you want to send them to private school, whether you are feeding them all organic food, and a couple other things. Even the most basic middle class (no after school sports, summer camp, etc.) upbringing costs $500,000 - $635,000 from birth through college, with the range mostly depending on whether they go to a public or private university. source: http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB117288281789725533-WZk_5xPQiihWpVM8_WCB9I_GjM0_20070402.html?mod=tff_article http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB117288281789725533-WZ... edit: The second set of figures was from p.6 of Parenting, Inc., which I believe come from here: http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/Publications/CRC/crc2009.pdf http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/Publications/CRC/crc2009.pdf You can actually read the entire opening of Parenting, Inc. for free on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Inc-Pamela-Paul/dp/B003V1WDFA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1292874053&sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Inc-Pamela-Paul/dp/B003V1WDF...

charlesdm 16y ago

I'm going to do some travelling this year. I started remote freelancing recently, so this is pretty much perfect to combine with some travelling.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

kenjackson 16y ago

I think Ryan misses the point for most people. I do want a "million" dollars for freedom, but it's not just to go to Thailand. In fact I don't really like traveling, but I'd pay a lot if you could teleport me instantly. I want the freedom to work on what I want to work on AND to buy what I want. I'm tired of saying, "I won't get that TV now, because in 12 months that TV is coming out". Or "lets wait 8 months for the price to drop on that car". Or "do we really need a view?" It's not that I need less stuff. I'm fairly certain I want more new stuff (and I'll happy donate my old stuff). And it's not like I want to hike barefoot through rainforests. I generally want to spend time doing things like trying to build a new tablet OS. Or playing a full season of Madden as the Vikings. Or doing Sunday Times puzzles in less than five minutes. Or spend a month completely rewiring my houses to have incredible home automation. I frankly don't see how you do that stuff w/o money. I guess a "million" dollars or the ability to create things by thinking them up.

callmeed 16y ago
While I don't subscribe to your outlook, I at least applaud you for being honest. When this topic comes up, most people veil their desire for material things or a more luxurious lifestyle as "freedom".
- sreitshamer 16y ago
  I'd like luxurious lifestyle (not showy, just high quality) and freedom, but I think they're mutually exclusive. I find it challenging to keep expensive lifestyle from chewing up too much money, which then limits my freedom.
pedanticfreak 16y ago
I think you're also missing some of the point though. You don't need a million dollars for any or all of those things you just listed. Add it all up and you're barely breaking a few thousand dollars. Sure you need money. He's not saying you don't need money. The point is that when people say they need to be arbitrarily wealthy because they want to eventually do Y, they can usually do Y for much, much less money than they think. In fact it is usually within their current means. So stop agonizing about not being rich and figure out how much you really need already.

tapiwa 16y ago

My biggest problem with most of the "I just need $1m" people I have met is twofold. One, most of them would have no idea how to use that million in a sustainable way. Take a look at all the lottery winners that end up broke. The article does touch on this ... you don't need a million dollars to do half the things that many people feel they will do when they miraculously land that million. Secondly, most people are not prepared to put in the kind of work that leads to a million dollar payoff. No, playing the lotto does not count. Getting a big payoff takes hard work, luck, and more hard & smart work. Far too many people are not prepared to pay the price of success.

djhworld 16y ago

Travelling on a shoe string budget is possible for people on modest incomes but it's not exactly living comfortably is it? People want a million dollars so they can live a comfortable life rather than trudging through life and then going to the grave. Yes, you could blow the lot on a car, house, long holiday etc but they're short term gains that won't really change your life that much. After all buying an expensive house will land you with expensive upkeep/running costs. A sensible person (here in the UK anyway) could pay themselves a healthy wage (£35k p/year tax free) for 20+ years and they can save the rest for retirement. The downside to this though is, once you've done a trip to Thailand and so on, I think boredom would probably set in so you'd want to spend the time after that doing something meaningful like working for a charity

mfukar 16y ago

Not to nitpick, but not everybody wants "a million dollars" to leave everything behind and travel. There's a lot of things one can do with "a million dollars"; and yeah, I want some of that too.

nchlswu 16y ago

This is more or less a question of lifestyle or philosophy and not a question about whether you need a million or not. I know i don't need a million bucks, but I'd sure like more than that. A friend of mine never cared about his money and is as happy as he can be. Right now he's travelling across the states with next to nothing. I envy the people who can enjoy what's truly necessary in our lives, but saying outright that those people who live this still have this ingenuity, discipline and proactivity to be successful is wrong. Forcing yourself to live a minimal lifestyle is different actually living it.

ck2 16y ago

Of course you want a million dollars. You just don't want the burden/responsibility that comes with it.

winternett 16y ago

I'd have no problem finding productive things to do with a million dollars. I wouldn't sit around wasting away either. If a million dollars fell into my lap, my biggest problem would be maintaining a straight face when everyone rushes to me with a sad story... Don't get me wrong, I'd definitely be charitable, but the hardest part in hanging on to money is preventing yourself from giving most of it away after that point. That being said, I don't believe in any sense of lottery providing opportunities for winning money. I don't trust the lottery system in any shape or form. And wishes of winning large sums of money only serves to set your ambition back in life, so I generally avoid it, unless powerball/megamils is above 200m, that is a thing worth gambling on.

ryanwaggoner 16y ago
And wishes of winning large sums of money only serves to set your ambition back in life, so I generally avoid it, unless powerball/megamils is above 200m, that is a thing worth gambling on. The first part of this sentence is so true, and the second part so false...
- winternett 16y ago
  Of course, its added for comedic irony.

run4yourlives 16y ago

I find it rich (no pun intended) that a bunch of single folk can somehow assume it's easy to live these type of lifestyles if you have a wife and 2 kids. Sorry, but I'd rather have a million.

shortlived 16y ago
It's like if you're a parent then you shouldn't be reading HN or something...
brc 16y ago
As would I. Of course there is no point in having a million bucks as a single person. Yes, you'd probably just blow it. With a family? Million dollars to have a comfortable home mostly paid for, college tuition sorted, no concerns about healthcare costs. If I got a million dollars tomorrow, almost nothing would change. Because most of it would go into securing the future and giving me more time with the kids.
p_nathan 16y ago
I would like to have a million. Two, if I could get it... three I wouldn't turn down either. I have defined two very specific and (not too horribly) lavish goals: have $0.00 month-to-month debt and to own a house with some acreage in the American Rockies. But, more money can be put to use: collage scholarships, investing, hobbies, putting away for family, charities - If one is not wedded to the urban jet-set lifestyle, one can really stretch the money.

Maro 16y ago

But is it financially a good idea? Is it safe? What if you want to have a family?

Swannie 16y ago

You're right, I want about 5m. Not to retire on, but to remove the need to work to provide a roof and food. So I can risk working on all the things that interest me and them tanking big time.

nicolas_t 16y ago

Well you know what? I'm 27, I have lived in 9 countries for long periods of time (more than 3 months for 2 of them, more than 1 year for the rest), I've traveled around to a few other countries and, well now that I want to settle down I do want a million dollar. While it's not the only reason why I'm creating my own business, money is a big part of the motivation. Of course I love most of what I do [1], wasting my life doing something that I hate to earn money is also not a smart move. But, yes money is definitely something I want... For example, I want to be able to have my house, a place of my own that I can modify how I want it, not a place owned by some landlord who places a lot of restrictions on what I can do... I want to be able to go to the expensive 3 stars restaurants, stay at nice 5 stars hotels instead of cheap youth hostels... I want to enjoy luxuries.. [1] Unfortunately growing my business means having employees and delegating some of the fun part along with the boring parts. And managing is not my favorite part of the job.

ry0ohki 16y ago

I think tech people take for granted that other people can be as mobile as us. If you're currently working for minimum wage at a convenience store, you probably have very little in the way of skills or education, and there are so many barriers to just getting out from under your bills. Even traveling very cheap requires some savings, and most people have $0 in savings and many thousands of dollars in debt.

pathik 16y ago

I don't. A million dollars isn't cool. You know what's cool? A billion dollars.

rwhitman 16y ago

All the people I know who travel the most and I feel have the most exciting and interesting lives make less than $60k a year. Wealth is relative.

dwc 16y ago

I think that a lot of people are missing the main point of this article. And Ryan could have stated it a little more clearly. Here's my take on it: Some things cost money, but others don't. Many things that people, including me, want to change about their life require an investment in time, effort and thought. However, the first things that come to mind could be fixed with more money, even if those things are really symptoms of something deeper than cannot be fixed with money. Money problems are easy to think about, so we think about them more and see the solution quickly. Enough of that and we put money as a proxy for all solutions. If you really take a good look at your life and at your hopes and dreams, many things can be accomplished without that million dollars, and other things...can't. Having made that separation, there are things you can do to improve your life without the million dollars. Fixing some of those things may actually make it possible for you to make that million dollars rather than wasting your life by wishing to win the lottery. From kenjackson in this discussion: "I want the freedom to work on what I want to work on AND to buy what I want." Oh? And until that happens? What if you rearrange your life so that you can work on what you want, and then figure out a way to make lots of money from that? Isn't that how it happens in startups?

iuguy 16y ago

Since scaling my life back and tackling startup debt I've really managed to scale down my outgoings. Furthermore I've simultaneously lost my lust for new tech and become the worst guy I know to buy presents for. I don't really need a million dollars, but if I had it I'm fairly certain I'd get quite far with it.

oz 16y ago

No,you don't. I'm really tired of anti-money meme. Why is it so difficult for people to admit that many things in life come down to money? This isn't about being Gordon Gekko. You could have the purest heart, but it still takes cash to care. Some are fine with minimalism. More power to them. But I don't want to exist. I want to thrive. I'm 24. I realized a few years ago that my highest value in life is autonomy. I want to be able to wake up tomorrow, and say "Hey, I've never been to Sweden," and just hop on a plane, without worrying about a small matter called rent. What if your boss made you miserable every day, but you can't quit because of the mortgage. Is that any way to live? Me? I think I'd rather die. Albert Camus said it best: It is spiritual arrogance to believe that one can be happy without money. And I'm a pastor's son; so I should know. I like money. I want lots of it. A million dollars? Pftha! That isn't even what Felix Dennis called comfortably poor... </rant>

ryanwaggoner 16y ago
I'm 24. I realized a few years ago that my highest value in life is autonomy. I want to be able to wake up tomorrow, and say "Hey, I've never been to Sweden," and just hop on a plane, without worrying about a small matter called rent. I'm 28, and I could do that today if I wanted to. And surprise, surprise, I don't have a million dollars. That's my point. Figure out what you want and make it a priority. Don't spend your life working for a big payoff so you can then figure out what you want. You'll never get there.
- abstractbill 16y ago
  Figure out what you want and make it a priority. I want more things out of life than can be easily prioritized. A million dollars would go a long way towards making it so I wouldn't have to make just one thing my priority.
- rick888 16y ago
  "I'm 28, and I could do that today if I wanted to. And surprise, surprise, I don't have a million dollars. That's my point. Figure out what you want and make it a priority. Don't spend your life working for a big payoff so you can then figure out what you want. You'll never get there." I don't want to work for anyone again. Do I need a million dollars? probably not, but I'm going to need a business that has enough income coming in to support my (and possibly anyone that works for me).

Xurinos 16y ago

I do. From the extremely rich, I heard something along these lines: "When you have money, money is not an issue." If you want to have, try, or do something NOW, money can make it happen. No waiting. Life is short. In exchange for money, I would have time. I would be liberated to pursue other things, to answer the call of other motivations. I picture it much like Maslow's Hierarchy: pierce the resource barrier, and you have ventured into the next level. The acquisition of resources and services in general is no longer an issue. Now we are in the realm of the rare, and our internal motivations/desires guide us more. No need to worry about what kind of insurance you have. No need to pause to ask if you can afford to take an ambulance. No need to decide between this or that. No more dreaming about taking a rocket to the moon. This is another way to say "freedom", but a general "freedom" is incorrect. There is always the next problem, the next desire. Remove money as a block, and many issues are resolved, while new issues enter the picture. Of course, a million dollars does not buy all that, but it could sure get me out of my debts and bolster my current investments! Yes, I really want a million dollars. A million dollars buys me time, my most precious resource, time I did not have to spend making that million.

oz 16y ago
Simple as that, my friend. Well said. One time I was watching HGTV with my sister. A couple bought a new house because they wanted a kitchen witha view of the ocean. She was incredulous, but I told her that's the very point of money-doing whatever you want to do.

mattm 16y ago

This discussion reminds me of a quote: "Young people trade their time and health for money, only to later trade that money for time and health."

sigstoat 16y ago

a million would let me pay off the loan on my business, and remodel to increase lab space, so i could hire more people, and create more jobs. so yeah, me and all my filthy capitalist buddies will take the million.

fistofjohnwayne 16y ago

This is the whitest thing I've ever read.

mgrouchy 16y ago

I kind of look at it differently. I don't feel the need to own a ton of stuff(even though myself and my fiance recently bought a small home) my main monetary goal is to eventually have enough money so that I never have to worry about having money :) Sounds kind of weird, but I don't spend my money on much stuff, but I like to travel once or twice a year and eat out with my fiance a couple of times a month. However much money it is that I can pay for my current place to live and do those things and never have to worry about it, then thats the right amount of money.

edw519 16y ago

Interesting post. Let me rephrase the question: What amount of money would it take to solve my biggest problems? Here are my biggest problems: 1. My father had a massive stroke and died. I miss him. 2. My mother has severe dementia and now acts like a toddler. I miss her too, in a strange way. 3. In the past 8 years, I have lost 5 close friends and family members including the cousin I grew up with who died very young of pancreatic cancer. I miss them all. 4. I have 3 loved ones with significant health problems. I wish there was more I could do to help. Better yet, I wish the would all just get well. 5. I love to build software and would like to build more, better, and faster. 6. The Pittsburgh Steelers (American football) lost yesterday. I'm crushed. I have struggled with how more money could help (or have helped) with numbers 1 through 4, but I'm not quite sure how. If I had more money, I could hire a bunch of people to help me with #5, but I think we're all learning that the correlation between having a lot of money and building lots of great software is becoming a very loose one. I need a billion dollars to buy the Steelers and run them the way they should be run. I need another billion to pay the referees. In the meantime, I'll just sit and suffer on Mondays like this.

stcredzero 16y ago
Donate: http://www.sens.org/ http://www.sens.org/ Likely this won't help you or me and it won't help your mom or dad, but it might help a lot of people someday.
- borism 16y ago
  not before reading this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategies_for_Engineered_Negligible_Senescence#Scientific_controversy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategies_for_Engineered_Negli...
runT1ME 16y ago
Why don't you apply to work for a software company that intersects with the health industry. I really think they need all the help they can get from smart tech people. First one that came to mind: http://www.pictureofhealth.com/ http://www.pictureofhealth.com/

jodrellblank 16y ago

"You don't want a million dollars, you just want to be happy and if you're resourceful you can do that without it. Unless you do want a million dollars in which case you're too stupid to get it or to rearrange your life to be happy without it. Sucks to be you I guess. Did I tell you about all that time I spent freelance travelling yet?"

roadnottaken 16y ago

"A young man without power or money is completely free. He has nothing, but he also has everything. He can travel, he can drift. He can make new acquaintances every day, and try to soak up the infinite variety of life. He can seduce and be seduced, start an enterprise and abandon it, join an army or flee a nation, fight to preserve an existing system or plot a revolution. He can reinvent himself daily, according to the discoveries he makes about the world and himself. But if he prospers through the choices he makes, if he acquires a wife, children, wealth, land, and power, his options gradually and inevitably diminish. Responsibility and commitment limit his moves. One might think that the most powerful man has the most choices, but in reality he has the fewest. Too much depends on his every move." --Mark Bowden, from Tales of the Tyrant: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/print/2002/05/tales-of-the-tyrant/2480/ http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/print/2002/05/tales-of-t...

dools 16y ago

I've just been skimming through all the comments here and I really think that a lot of you are missing the point of this article because you're focussing on that fact that you know just what you would do with $1,000,000 and how much of a positive effect all these things would have on your life. You're focussing on finding edge cases of people who genuinely need exactly $1,000,000 to pay off a bunch of things that are holding them back that are to the value of $1,000,000 (but even then, there's plenty of places you can abscond to if you want to escape debt - you just may not be welcome to return :) The essential message in this article is lateral thinking. It's about looking at the mountain in front of you and noticing that there is a way around it instead of having to climb all the way up to the top and go back down the other side. Of course there are people and situations where this doesn't apply. The title of the article "YOU don't really want a million dollars" naturally invites these comments because he's addressing a large audience of people, many of whom may have legitimate needs for that amount of money. If it were me writing it I would have maybe phrased it as "Do you really want a million dollars?" and focused on the fact that the question is addressed specifically to the guy at the store who wanted a million to solve "all his problems" in some abstract way. That million dollars that will solve everything IS lazy thinking. It allows you to say "unless I have that million, I can't possibly solve my problems" without ever giving any real thought, or doing any real research, into whether or not there is an alternative way to solve your problems other than "getting a million dollars" which for most people is an impossibility. I personally think that the author could have done a better job with this article because although I came to agree with it's premise after reading it twice then reviewing the comments, I was also initially thrown off the scent by listing all of the things I'd do with a million dollars if I had it.

patrickaljord 16y ago

You're right, I want a hundred of them ;)

waterlesscloud 16y ago
What's that line from the movie DISCLOSURE? "Give a man a hundred million dollars and you make a frustrated billionaire. " Seriously, though...so what if having money doesn't satisfy you and leaves you wanting more? Why is it taken as a given that being satisfied is a good thing?

6ren 16y ago

When I make a list of the things I'd like to do, but aren't, money is never the main barrier. It's things like... well... courage, faith, trust. I've actually had enough money at one point to retire (living on passive income), and it didn't make me happy at all. In fact, I stepped back from life a little, and it made me less happy. For me, in my present level of "spiritual wisdom" (for want of a better term), needing money seems to be a helpful motivation. I also observe what so many people do who make a lot of money do: keep on doing whatever it was they were doing.

ojbyrne 16y ago

But of course you need affiliate links. Kind of undermines the message.

pjhyett 16y ago

Growing up with two parents constantly stressed and fighting about money, having financial security is about the most calming thing I could imagine. For me, it's less about being able to do extravagant things, and more about never having to worry about it. Do you need a million dollars to achieve financial security? Perhaps not, but it certainly wouldn't hurt.

timwiseman 16y ago
I have to agree. Knowing that you have enough money to not worry about money would be incredibly liberating, even if I only maintained my current standard of living and changed nothing about what I actually do. Even if I never exercised the options, having that kind of money would give you options you wouldn't have otherwise.

petercooper 16y ago

I agree with the general point but.. I actually do want a million dollars for something specific ;-) My family wants to move to the US (from the UK) and I want to continue working solely for myself. I could come up with a clever investment using the E-2 visa but that'd realistically take a cpl hundred thousand and then involve renewing/funding a business/etc. Or I could spend $500k-$1m on an EB-5 depending on locality. Beyond that, we'd need extra money to cover how expensive the US is. So, yeah, we could do with a million <g>

sayemm 16y ago

I think Chris Dixon said it best in this tweet: http://twitter.com/cdixon/status/13437285168 http://twitter.com/cdixon/status/13437285168 "People capable of making enough money to never work again are the same people who will never quit working."

nazgulnarsil 16y ago

yes, yes I do. the average moron might not have any use for money (observe lottery winner's behavior) but any reasonably educated person should.

sliverstorm 16y ago

Very few people want, need, or are even wishing for exactly one million dollars, and zero cents. '1 million dollars' is just a placeholder for 'enough money' that originated in a time long past. It's a bias that's not hard to detect. If I examine my own thoughts, I find that 'millionaire' is almost synonymous with 'arbitrarily wealthy' while 'billionaire' and 'trillionaire' don't really hold meaning beyond the literal definition.

didip 16y ago

tl;dr - I agree with the article. Get shit done to make yourself happy. When reading a few responses here, I'm taken back with the comment "It's easy for you to preach, you don't have kids". In real life, I heard similar sentiments. I'm having a hard time trying to understand the feeling when people said such things. Having kids is a choice, no? The same thing with living über-minimalistic life. People who don't have kids may have serious problems too. Me and my wife, we don't have kids. But what we do have in terms of problems: 1. Selfish, arrogant, and wasteful parents. We helped them a lot and never received a single thanks. They love to have elaborate parties even though they are broke. 2. A 14 years old sister. Amazingly selfish little brat, complete disconnect between what she wants and what our parents could provide. Fucking android for 14 years old, what for? I cannot imagine her coding up some android app. I don't have a million dollar and far from it. When I was 26, I swallowed the "American Dream" Kool-aid bottoms up and really needed that 1 million dollar: We bought a big house, with .25 acre land. We owned 3 cars. I did all the stupid things that can only happen if you own a house: upgrading HVAC, kitchen, etc. etc. Only 1 thing I did that wasn't stupid: paying for wife's school. Now, we don't own TV, 1 car, 1 couch, < 700 sqft apartment, 2 cats, and 0-10 minutes commute. When we went through the transformation, crazy things happen. My sisters respect me a lot more. When they want superfluous things and I said no, they listen far more than they ever did. Crazy things happen with the parents too. They listened, twice, when I told them about the elaborate parties. Not needing money empowered me far more than money ever did. And I'm quite sure that I'm not unique in that regard. My future kids won't have lawn to run around or the latest apple gadgets to pimp around. Their life won't be govern by money. This plan may or may not work, my real life friends would be the judge of that. To drive my points further, unrelated to my life story, several tech co-founders have told me directly. "The best time to raise money, is when you don't need money". Extra brownie point: To buy freedom into United States (the easy way), you really need a million dollar. http://bit.ly/9RItQM http://bit.ly/9RItQM

Charuru 16y ago

Nah, you don't want a million dollars. Some people do: http://maxkle.in/do-you-really-want-to-be-rich/ http://maxkle.in/do-you-really-want-to-be-rich/