11 ms·

LaTeX Workflow on iPad

151 points by SuperTachyon 7y ago

d3ron 7y ago
Well, I just use Overleaf to do my LaTeX work on my iPad.
- SuperTachyon 7y ago
  Well. I’m glad that works for you.
- benrbray 7y ago
  It seems the author wanted a solution that would work offline as well.
- wanderfowl 7y ago
  Overleaf's fine, but lack of offline editing, and more crucially, trusting my main working copy to live only on somebody else's computer, is a bit of a non-starter for me. Plus, call me an idealist, but it feels like a huge step back when a device requires a paid web service to do something that's completely free on a real computer. I don't know that "pay somebody else" should be hailed as the solution to "good software doesn't work on this device".
  - gdsimoes 7y ago
    You made a good point about offline editing but Overleaf's main reason for existing is precisely TeX software not being so good.
    - pletnes 7y ago
      The collaboration and sync tools are very useful, including performant editing by multiple authors at once.
  - goerz 7y ago
    Overleaf has excellent offline support through its git interface (or Dropbox, if you prefer).
- goerz 7y ago
  The Overleaf website is a bit painful to use on an iPad. Hopefully, this will change with the "desktop-grade" Safari announced for iOS 13. Maybe someone already running the beta could test this?
  - AgloeDreams 7y ago
    I imagine it will be identical to Safari running on desktop. The Beta also gives you things like page scaling that you have on desktop so you can play with sizing if you like too.
wanderfowl 7y ago
This is great to see, but also really frustrating. I see Apple pushing to make iPadOS feel more 'real computer', but these sorts of basic Unixy workflows still feel very hacky, particularly when it comes time to save things to the 'File system', as it were. I look forward to a day when I can someday actually use things like XeLaTeX and Pandoc on an iPad to accomplish my actual work, but for now, I'm finding myself editing Markdown and TeX now, and compiling later. Not great, but good enough. I've often wondered whether Apple could do well by doing something similar to Crostini on ChromeOS, to allow these things to actually work as intended, but without impacting security. But that also probably doesn't sell software as effectively, as free software doesn't pay Apple's cut.
- macintux 7y ago
  Apple doesn’t care about minuscule lost revenue because some people would want to run containers of free software. Drop in the bucket.
  - _ph_ 7y ago
    The number of iPads bought by those users might be just a drop in the bucket, but that is too shortsighted to look at those users. Those users are the ones who might push development of more advanced apps on the iPad, be it as developers themselves or because they would attract new app development to the iPad. Engineers and scientists might be a small market, but I think it was vital for OS X, that early on Apple laptops started to appear at conferences, slowly growing in share.
    - macintux 7y ago
      I said the lost revenue if the feature were offered wasn’t important. I didn’t say anything about the value of the users.
      - _ph_ 7y ago
        But you cannot reasonably look at the one without considering the other.
AceJohnny2 7y ago
I don't see TeXPad mentioned anywhere. An iOS LaTeX environment, featured here a few years ago: https://www.texpad.com/blog/latex-ported-to-ipad https://www.texpad.com/blog/latex-ported-to-ipad https://www.texpad.com/ios https://www.texpad.com/ios
- LolWolf 7y ago
  Just adding to this: TeXPad is what I use on both my laptop (when working on a big screen, though I mostly use Vim when working from battery) and my iPad mini 5 (+ a little bluetooth keyboard) on flights and before meetings. Honestly, using that + iCloud syncing (+ Git, on my laptop) has been great: all of the changes I do sync across all of my devices, as do the PDFs, which I can easily bring up in meetings, while also having the plus side of git (diffs, general VCS niceness) once I get back to my computer and commit the changes to the remote repo. Of course, unlike the OP, I'm not aiming to completely replace my laptop... I'm trying instead to augment my workflow to not carry my laptop to meetings, while waiting for people, etc.
- goerz 7y ago
  +1 on Texpad. It also integrates extremely well with File Providers. You can clone a repo of your TeX project on Working Copy, and then link the entire checkout folder in Texpad. Then, just edit and compile in Texpad, and switch back to Working Copy to commit and push the changes.
- SuperTachyon 7y ago
  Actually Texpad is mentioned in the article briefly. But, unlike its MacOS version, on iOS it’s not as very good. For example, there is no multitasking support on iPad. The package managing relies on installing pre-defined “bundles”, which don’t tell what packages are included. On the Mac version of Texpad, we can choose between its own compiler or an external one like tex live. But on iOS, the former seems to be the only option.
  - AceJohnny2 7y ago
    Oh that's weird, I missed it when I searched for it. Thanks for your feedback :)
occamschainsaw 7y ago
I have another (albeit more expensive) workflow. I use texpad[0] on my Mac and iPad, with the files stored in Dropbox and iCloud. Works like a charm and almost no overhead setting up. [0] https://www.texpad.com https://www.texpad.com
- SuperTachyon 7y ago
  This actually used to be my setup too. But Texpad on iOS is not very good (e.g. no multitasking support). Its Dropbox sync is not very reliable in my experience. Then I moved to TeX Writer and Dropbox, which worked better. Then I wanted more (code completion, version control). So I ended up with the workflow mentioned in the article.
goerz 7y ago
I find Texpad to work great in principle, although I get frustrated by any text editor that is not vim. If you have the ability to sideload (that is, you have a developer account), there is a fork of iVim (https://github.com/holzschu/iVim https://github.com/holzschu/iVim) that supports running TeXLive locally on the iPad. I wrote up some notes on how to make this work some time ago: https://michaelgoerz.net/notes/editing-latex-on-the-ipad-with-ivim.html https://michaelgoerz.net/notes/editing-latex-on-the-ipad-wit... When I don't need offline editing, another workflow I've used is to do the editing on my linux server: edit via Blink/tmux/vim on the left, and see the compilation result on the right via Screens/vncserver/evince (with auto-reloading).
- SuperTachyon 7y ago
  I actually came across your setup when figuring out mine. Thanks for sharing!
drej 7y ago
I was an early adopter, I got an iPad back in the summer of 2010 and have used various models ever since. I've read quite a few of these "replacing a laptop with an iPad" articles and pretty much all of them involve a lot of bending over backwards to make it all work. I've tried it a few times and it's not just worth it (to me). What I do instead is that I embrace the platform for what it is and don't do any of this remote machine kung fu to mimick a real computer. What I do instead is that I setup applications that sync data through the cloud, so that I can do draft work on my iPad (mostly text, some very light programming), but I never worry about runtimes, compilation etc. Ever since I stopped worrying and just used one of the many text apps (I mostly use iA or Google Keep), I've been much happier - I can focus on text, not on complex workflows.
- glormph 7y ago
  Some years ago I read an article through HN by someone who did their programming on an ipad through SSH (and bluetooth mac keyboard) and ditched the laptop. Pictures of croissants in the sun outside in Munich. Got me very inspired. But in the end I decided on a stationary box at work/home, and a MB Air for when not at the desk (or on the sofa). Works great and doesn't weigh much anyway. The main problem with the tablet was that were always things I was missing that I hadn't thought about when moving to iPad. Maybe it'd be better with another brand, but I'm not bothering now.
  - dhimes 7y ago
    I read the same article and felt the same way. But, like you, I couldn't get past the "why should I bother doing this when what I do works pretty well and I can autobackup a paranoid extra backup to usb?
  - sabizmil 7y ago
    Is this the article? https://yieldthought.com/post/12239282034/swapped-my-macbook-for-an-ipad https://yieldthought.com/post/12239282034/swapped-my-macbook... I remember when it came out and a few coworkers at the time had seriously considered swapping to an iPad because of it, but ended up getting MacBook Airs instead. It’s surprising how 7 years has gone by and using an iPad for development is still facing the same problems.
m0zg 7y ago
Or you can just get a ThinkPad X1 (a generation or two behind) for sub-$1k, install Linux on it, and work in comfort with almost the same weight and battery life. I'm really pleased with mine.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
otabdeveloper3 7y ago
But why? The iPad is a game console for people not into the "gaming culture". You don't run compilers on your Nintendo, do you?
pvmcos 7y ago
I love my iPad. Compared to windows at work it's way more reliable and polished. I've been shifting over my computer interaction to the iPad with good results and improvements in convenience, independence and efficiency. Migrating rss, mail, web browsing and content consummation has been successful. I too started using the calendar, to do list and notes app to great effect. Only programming I wasn't able to change yet. An attempt was made with a ssh app, but it wasn't able to compete with a proper ide/text editor yet. For unix as an ide fans it would be enough though. I want to learn that, but sadly I still have to write native apps, though I'll change that when I have the chance. The best thing about iPadOS is control. It feels so relaxing not having to worry about discord scanning all your processes and files just because you want to chat with your friends. I hope they'll never go back to allowing unsigned code.
- raxxorrax 7y ago
  We are obligated to use iPads for external colleagues and it is a catastrophe for productivity. There are some nice apps but everything is restricted. Well, our CRM and ERP system use Windows, but even without that the iPads remain a toy for meetings. Chatting with friends is ok though. But the ergonomy is still crap.
- n1000 7y ago
  > The best thing about iPadOS is control. It feels so relaxing not having to worry about discord scanning all your processes and files just because you want to chat with your friends. I hope they'll never go back to allowing unsigned code. It felt like a loss of control when I learned recently that facebook uses a loophole to exchange data with Whatsapp... https://medium.com/@gzanon/no-end-to-end-encryption-does-not-prevent-facebook-from-accessing-whatsapp-chats-d7c6508731b2 https://medium.com/@gzanon/no-end-to-end-encryption-does-not...
  - sfotm 7y ago
    >It felt like a loss of control when I learned recently that facebook uses a loophole to exchange data with Whatsapp... https://medium.com/@gzanon/no-end-to-end-encryption-does-not.. https://medium.com/@gzanon/no-end-to-end-encryption-does-not.... That's not what the article is saying - the linked article says that there may be a way for Facebook to do this, but there is no proof that they are. That still leaves room to say that maybe there should be user controls against these app extensions, though.
chj 7y ago
TeX Writer developer here. Very flattered to be included in the author's workflow. Sitting at the core of this process is WorkingCopy, which has the most sensible integration with Files app that it simply keeps all files local. After one or two emails with its developer, we managed to get the coordination working rather quickly. The intersection of LaTeX & git & ipad users are very small, but it is a joy to see that apps can work well together with just a little bit of effort. For iPad to function as a real computer, I think what we need most is a shared file system that can be accessed by all apps alike, with some sort of access control. btw: Never expected that someone would dump the TeXLive tree into texmf-local. Nevertheless, glad that it works.
- hoschicz 7y ago
  Since iOS 13 ships with "full" Safari, how realistic is it to just use Overleaf / ShareLaTeX for typesetting on the iPad?
  - chj 7y ago
    If you don't need offline solution, I think you can use them even without iOS13.
    - erreJulian 7y ago
      I'm on a 9'7 right now and use Working Copy and Kodek to write and Overleaf to "test" the LaTeX code and see if it will produce the .pdf I need. For full time use it might be a bit harder, but it's not impossible.
mark_l_watson 7y ago
Good write up, thanks. I wrote three books using LaTex, but I now use markdown with leanpub, otherwise I would immediately clone the author’s setup. I also find that an iPad Pro is great for writing wherever I happen to be. I recently gave my large iPad Pro to someone and bought the smaller one. My new iPad Pro is so small it is always ready at hand.
- mwcampbell 7y ago
  This is a tangent, but I just wanted to thank you for making that move away from LaTeX. As I explained elsewhere [1], PDF (the primary output format of LaTeX AFAIK) is not very accessible to blind people via screen readers. The structured formats that can be easily produced with full fidelity from Markdown (HTML, EPUB) are much better. I'm sure this isn't the reason why you made the switch, but it's a nice side benefit. [1]: https://lobste.rs/s/dhjp6r/what_are_you_doing_this_weekend#c_bdi7de https://lobste.rs/s/dhjp6r/what_are_you_doing_this_weekend#c...
paultopia 7y ago
I just run myself a docker container with pandoc and a flask endpoint on heroku.[1] Doesn't work offline, but with an iPad with cellular service I basically am never offline, and I have a Siri shortcut set up to share documents from any app, or markdown from clipboard, straight to the endpoint. Full latex, markdown, conversion to word... and on free dyno time no less. [1] https://github.com/paultopia/miniapi https://github.com/paultopia/miniapi
MichaelZuo 7y ago
I just use Overleaf, way simpler. Needs a keyboard with the iPad though. Almost a one button click setup.
ktaylor 7y ago
I hate IOS. I don't understand why people try to turn a consumer device into a serious developer workstation.

151 points by SuperTachyon 7y ago

d3ron 7y ago

Well, I just use Overleaf to do my LaTeX work on my iPad.

SuperTachyon 7y ago
Well. I’m glad that works for you.
benrbray 7y ago
It seems the author wanted a solution that would work offline as well.
wanderfowl 7y ago
Overleaf's fine, but lack of offline editing, and more crucially, trusting my main working copy to live only on somebody else's computer, is a bit of a non-starter for me. Plus, call me an idealist, but it feels like a huge step back when a device requires a paid web service to do something that's completely free on a real computer. I don't know that "pay somebody else" should be hailed as the solution to "good software doesn't work on this device".
- gdsimoes 7y ago
  You made a good point about offline editing but Overleaf's main reason for existing is precisely TeX software not being so good.
  - pletnes 7y ago
    The collaboration and sync tools are very useful, including performant editing by multiple authors at once.
- goerz 7y ago
  Overleaf has excellent offline support through its git interface (or Dropbox, if you prefer).
goerz 7y ago
The Overleaf website is a bit painful to use on an iPad. Hopefully, this will change with the "desktop-grade" Safari announced for iOS 13. Maybe someone already running the beta could test this?
- AgloeDreams 7y ago
  I imagine it will be identical to Safari running on desktop. The Beta also gives you things like page scaling that you have on desktop so you can play with sizing if you like too.

wanderfowl 7y ago

This is great to see, but also really frustrating. I see Apple pushing to make iPadOS feel more 'real computer', but these sorts of basic Unixy workflows still feel very hacky, particularly when it comes time to save things to the 'File system', as it were. I look forward to a day when I can someday actually use things like XeLaTeX and Pandoc on an iPad to accomplish my actual work, but for now, I'm finding myself editing Markdown and TeX now, and compiling later. Not great, but good enough. I've often wondered whether Apple could do well by doing something similar to Crostini on ChromeOS, to allow these things to actually work as intended, but without impacting security. But that also probably doesn't sell software as effectively, as free software doesn't pay Apple's cut.

macintux 7y ago
Apple doesn’t care about minuscule lost revenue because some people would want to run containers of free software. Drop in the bucket.
- _ph_ 7y ago
  The number of iPads bought by those users might be just a drop in the bucket, but that is too shortsighted to look at those users. Those users are the ones who might push development of more advanced apps on the iPad, be it as developers themselves or because they would attract new app development to the iPad. Engineers and scientists might be a small market, but I think it was vital for OS X, that early on Apple laptops started to appear at conferences, slowly growing in share.
  - macintux 7y ago
    I said the lost revenue if the feature were offered wasn’t important. I didn’t say anything about the value of the users.
    - _ph_ 7y ago
      But you cannot reasonably look at the one without considering the other.

AceJohnny2 7y ago

I don't see TeXPad mentioned anywhere. An iOS LaTeX environment, featured here a few years ago: https://www.texpad.com/blog/latex-ported-to-ipad https://www.texpad.com/blog/latex-ported-to-ipad https://www.texpad.com/ios https://www.texpad.com/ios

LolWolf 7y ago
Just adding to this: TeXPad is what I use on both my laptop (when working on a big screen, though I mostly use Vim when working from battery) and my iPad mini 5 (+ a little bluetooth keyboard) on flights and before meetings. Honestly, using that + iCloud syncing (+ Git, on my laptop) has been great: all of the changes I do sync across all of my devices, as do the PDFs, which I can easily bring up in meetings, while also having the plus side of git (diffs, general VCS niceness) once I get back to my computer and commit the changes to the remote repo. Of course, unlike the OP, I'm not aiming to completely replace my laptop... I'm trying instead to augment my workflow to not carry my laptop to meetings, while waiting for people, etc.
goerz 7y ago
+1 on Texpad. It also integrates extremely well with File Providers. You can clone a repo of your TeX project on Working Copy, and then link the entire checkout folder in Texpad. Then, just edit and compile in Texpad, and switch back to Working Copy to commit and push the changes.
SuperTachyon 7y ago
Actually Texpad is mentioned in the article briefly. But, unlike its MacOS version, on iOS it’s not as very good. For example, there is no multitasking support on iPad. The package managing relies on installing pre-defined “bundles”, which don’t tell what packages are included. On the Mac version of Texpad, we can choose between its own compiler or an external one like tex live. But on iOS, the former seems to be the only option.
- AceJohnny2 7y ago
  Oh that's weird, I missed it when I searched for it. Thanks for your feedback :)

occamschainsaw 7y ago

I have another (albeit more expensive) workflow. I use texpad[0] on my Mac and iPad, with the files stored in Dropbox and iCloud. Works like a charm and almost no overhead setting up. [0] https://www.texpad.com https://www.texpad.com

SuperTachyon 7y ago
This actually used to be my setup too. But Texpad on iOS is not very good (e.g. no multitasking support). Its Dropbox sync is not very reliable in my experience. Then I moved to TeX Writer and Dropbox, which worked better. Then I wanted more (code completion, version control). So I ended up with the workflow mentioned in the article.

goerz 7y ago

I find Texpad to work great in principle, although I get frustrated by any text editor that is not vim. If you have the ability to sideload (that is, you have a developer account), there is a fork of iVim (https://github.com/holzschu/iVim https://github.com/holzschu/iVim) that supports running TeXLive locally on the iPad. I wrote up some notes on how to make this work some time ago: https://michaelgoerz.net/notes/editing-latex-on-the-ipad-with-ivim.html https://michaelgoerz.net/notes/editing-latex-on-the-ipad-wit... When I don't need offline editing, another workflow I've used is to do the editing on my linux server: edit via Blink/tmux/vim on the left, and see the compilation result on the right via Screens/vncserver/evince (with auto-reloading).

SuperTachyon 7y ago
I actually came across your setup when figuring out mine. Thanks for sharing!

drej 7y ago

I was an early adopter, I got an iPad back in the summer of 2010 and have used various models ever since. I've read quite a few of these "replacing a laptop with an iPad" articles and pretty much all of them involve a lot of bending over backwards to make it all work. I've tried it a few times and it's not just worth it (to me). What I do instead is that I embrace the platform for what it is and don't do any of this remote machine kung fu to mimick a real computer. What I do instead is that I setup applications that sync data through the cloud, so that I can do draft work on my iPad (mostly text, some very light programming), but I never worry about runtimes, compilation etc. Ever since I stopped worrying and just used one of the many text apps (I mostly use iA or Google Keep), I've been much happier - I can focus on text, not on complex workflows.

glormph 7y ago
Some years ago I read an article through HN by someone who did their programming on an ipad through SSH (and bluetooth mac keyboard) and ditched the laptop. Pictures of croissants in the sun outside in Munich. Got me very inspired. But in the end I decided on a stationary box at work/home, and a MB Air for when not at the desk (or on the sofa). Works great and doesn't weigh much anyway. The main problem with the tablet was that were always things I was missing that I hadn't thought about when moving to iPad. Maybe it'd be better with another brand, but I'm not bothering now.
- dhimes 7y ago
  I read the same article and felt the same way. But, like you, I couldn't get past the "why should I bother doing this when what I do works pretty well and I can autobackup a paranoid extra backup to usb?
- sabizmil 7y ago
  Is this the article? https://yieldthought.com/post/12239282034/swapped-my-macbook-for-an-ipad https://yieldthought.com/post/12239282034/swapped-my-macbook... I remember when it came out and a few coworkers at the time had seriously considered swapping to an iPad because of it, but ended up getting MacBook Airs instead. It’s surprising how 7 years has gone by and using an iPad for development is still facing the same problems.

m0zg 7y ago

Or you can just get a ThinkPad X1 (a generation or two behind) for sub-$1k, install Linux on it, and work in comfort with almost the same weight and battery life. I'm really pleased with mine.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

otabdeveloper3 7y ago

But why? The iPad is a game console for people not into the "gaming culture". You don't run compilers on your Nintendo, do you?

pvmcos 7y ago

I love my iPad. Compared to windows at work it's way more reliable and polished. I've been shifting over my computer interaction to the iPad with good results and improvements in convenience, independence and efficiency. Migrating rss, mail, web browsing and content consummation has been successful. I too started using the calendar, to do list and notes app to great effect. Only programming I wasn't able to change yet. An attempt was made with a ssh app, but it wasn't able to compete with a proper ide/text editor yet. For unix as an ide fans it would be enough though. I want to learn that, but sadly I still have to write native apps, though I'll change that when I have the chance. The best thing about iPadOS is control. It feels so relaxing not having to worry about discord scanning all your processes and files just because you want to chat with your friends. I hope they'll never go back to allowing unsigned code.

raxxorrax 7y ago
We are obligated to use iPads for external colleagues and it is a catastrophe for productivity. There are some nice apps but everything is restricted. Well, our CRM and ERP system use Windows, but even without that the iPads remain a toy for meetings. Chatting with friends is ok though. But the ergonomy is still crap.
n1000 7y ago
> The best thing about iPadOS is control. It feels so relaxing not having to worry about discord scanning all your processes and files just because you want to chat with your friends. I hope they'll never go back to allowing unsigned code. It felt like a loss of control when I learned recently that facebook uses a loophole to exchange data with Whatsapp... https://medium.com/@gzanon/no-end-to-end-encryption-does-not-prevent-facebook-from-accessing-whatsapp-chats-d7c6508731b2 https://medium.com/@gzanon/no-end-to-end-encryption-does-not...
- sfotm 7y ago
  >It felt like a loss of control when I learned recently that facebook uses a loophole to exchange data with Whatsapp... https://medium.com/@gzanon/no-end-to-end-encryption-does-not.. https://medium.com/@gzanon/no-end-to-end-encryption-does-not.... That's not what the article is saying - the linked article says that there may be a way for Facebook to do this, but there is no proof that they are. That still leaves room to say that maybe there should be user controls against these app extensions, though.

chj 7y ago

TeX Writer developer here. Very flattered to be included in the author's workflow. Sitting at the core of this process is WorkingCopy, which has the most sensible integration with Files app that it simply keeps all files local. After one or two emails with its developer, we managed to get the coordination working rather quickly. The intersection of LaTeX & git & ipad users are very small, but it is a joy to see that apps can work well together with just a little bit of effort. For iPad to function as a real computer, I think what we need most is a shared file system that can be accessed by all apps alike, with some sort of access control. btw: Never expected that someone would dump the TeXLive tree into texmf-local. Nevertheless, glad that it works.

hoschicz 7y ago
Since iOS 13 ships with "full" Safari, how realistic is it to just use Overleaf / ShareLaTeX for typesetting on the iPad?
- chj 7y ago
  If you don't need offline solution, I think you can use them even without iOS13.
  - erreJulian 7y ago
    I'm on a 9'7 right now and use Working Copy and Kodek to write and Overleaf to "test" the LaTeX code and see if it will produce the .pdf I need. For full time use it might be a bit harder, but it's not impossible.

mark_l_watson 7y ago

Good write up, thanks. I wrote three books using LaTex, but I now use markdown with leanpub, otherwise I would immediately clone the author’s setup. I also find that an iPad Pro is great for writing wherever I happen to be. I recently gave my large iPad Pro to someone and bought the smaller one. My new iPad Pro is so small it is always ready at hand.

mwcampbell 7y ago
This is a tangent, but I just wanted to thank you for making that move away from LaTeX. As I explained elsewhere [1], PDF (the primary output format of LaTeX AFAIK) is not very accessible to blind people via screen readers. The structured formats that can be easily produced with full fidelity from Markdown (HTML, EPUB) are much better. I'm sure this isn't the reason why you made the switch, but it's a nice side benefit. [1]: https://lobste.rs/s/dhjp6r/what_are_you_doing_this_weekend#c_bdi7de https://lobste.rs/s/dhjp6r/what_are_you_doing_this_weekend#c...

paultopia 7y ago

I just run myself a docker container with pandoc and a flask endpoint on heroku.[1] Doesn't work offline, but with an iPad with cellular service I basically am never offline, and I have a Siri shortcut set up to share documents from any app, or markdown from clipboard, straight to the endpoint. Full latex, markdown, conversion to word... and on free dyno time no less. [1] https://github.com/paultopia/miniapi https://github.com/paultopia/miniapi

MichaelZuo 7y ago

I just use Overleaf, way simpler. Needs a keyboard with the iPad though. Almost a one button click setup.

ktaylor 7y ago

I hate IOS. I don't understand why people try to turn a consumer device into a serious developer workstation.