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China Prepares to Drop Microsoft Windows, Blames U.S. Hacking Threat
- deadalus 7y agohttps://finance.yahoo.com/news/yes-chinese-piracy-lost-microsoft-123104842.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/yes-chinese-piracy-lost-micro...
- tonyedgecombe 7y agoMy first thought was will Microsoft even notice. If I look at my own business the only orders I get from China are from outposts of Western corporations. Software piracy is rampant there.
- StreamBright 7y agoChina is going to come out of this trade war stronger than ever.
- jraby3 7y agoDisagree. Think both the US and China will come out weaker.
- majia 7y agoHopefully not. A healthy competition is better than Microsoft monopoly. If China could spend billions of dollars on an open OS and make it compatible with major windows applications, it would be better for everyone. This is challenging because it involves huge amount engineering and testing effort, and Microsoft/US is likely to use restrictive patent/technical standards to contain it. But China is probably the only one with the ability and willingness to make it happen.
- HenryBemis 7y agoUS will get its head bitten off. China still does business with the rest of the planet. Trump's "us or them" at some point will lead the 'free world' to say a royal "screw you, we go with them". I disagree with the way that Trump administration is handling things. Making more noise to cover the previously-made-noise is a downward spiral/slippery slope, and he's on it. China (aka Chinese People) will not suffer, because they will just not. They won't feel the 'pain' of losing 20% of their income if that happens. People living in the USA on the other hand, they will feel a 20% drop much harder. It is a sprint for Trump administration, but a marathon for Xi's and Vlad's administration. I fear that we haven't seen the worse part yet.
- orwin 7y agoIn the short term yes. In the long term, i'm not so sure. If no revolution take place in China, they might come out stronger in ~20 years. [edit] Also this trade war is gold for the propaganda. While the wealthy/educated people don't buy it too much, it helps Xi and his government with the "mass", thus strenghtening his power.
- DeonPenny 7y agoThe US with its own separate tech supply chain and rare metals and China with an entirely self-sufficient tech ecosystem? Will be interested to see how history works out for each country. It will be game-changing.
- StreamBright 7y agoForcing China to create their own version of anything did not work out for the US. Remember when they banned Intel to ship CPUs for China's supercomputer? The end result: new CPU from China, Intel had to let people go because of the reduced amount of revenue. I suspect this trade war is going to result in a new Chinese OS and some other projects like that. At the end they will enter with these new products to the global market. Essentially unless the US gets every single country to ban Chinese products (which is unlikely) they just created more competition for themselves.
- ztratar 7y agoSource for your claims? Intel, as far as I know, only let people go because they've been diminished due to ARM and Cisco with smartphone processors. What is this new CPU from China? China is quite publicly known to be years behind the US in semiconductor design & fabrication. I would agree with your statement that we'll get a new Chinese OS. Overall this is already in existence w/ WeChat, and all they need to do is go further down into the Kernal. As Android is restricted partially in the future, this may lead to other problems thought. We'll see.
- StreamBright 7y agohttps://www.pcworld.com/article/2908692/us-blocks-intel-from-selling-xeon-chips-to-chinese-supercomputer-projects.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/2908692/us-blocks-intel-from... https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/04/10/us_intel_china_ban/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/04/10/us_intel_china_ban/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07/15/china_supercomputer_chips/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07/15/china_supercomputer... https://www.nextplatform.com/2016/06/20/look-inside-chinas-chart-topping-new-supercomputer/ https://www.nextplatform.com/2016/06/20/look-inside-chinas-c... http://www.netlib.org/utk/people/JackDongarra/PAPERS/sunway-report-2016.pdf http://www.netlib.org/utk/people/JackDongarra/PAPERS/sunway-... https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/11/13/500_supercomputers_list/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/11/13/500_supercomputers_... I am not saying Intel lays off people only because of the Chinese ban but I think it contributes to its troubles if they cannot sell Xeon processors to China.
- fbi-director 7y agoDisagree. The net cost for the past year and the next two years that this 'war' is being played out, will be a large number. The net profit for either side, if measured across the board and not only mentioning we got X amount of dollars in import taxes, will be a large negative number. Things will change, both sides will become stronger om certain points, but the total game is a loss for all involved.
- joelschw 7y agoThe ruling government will outlast any presidential administration as well
- ztratar 7y agoAnd what do you think that will do tactically? It doesn't diminish the intrinsic geopolitical positions of both nation-states. Both countries, honestly, should be "fine" without the same levels of trade we've had in the past. Per capita GDP is to the point where trade can be diminished whilst maintaining relatively stable growth. The problem is primarily, IMO, to do with world tensions & world peace.
- orwin 7y agoYour current presidential administration is not the norm. Most countries keep highly knowledgable/connected people from one administration to another, without changing them despite different political colors, especially diplomatic administration. Trump did not name enough ambassadors, and everything turned out pretty well, no? That's because US ambassies work pretty well w/o any ambassador. Those are just prestigial distinctions, the workers don't really change. At least in France, there is at least 5 power: the administration is the 5th, and it should not be underestimated.
- akerro 7y agoRussia is doing the same!
- sandGorgon 7y agothere are fairly good China-specific Linux distros (that comply with chinese regulations) . Like Ubuntu Kylin - http://www.ubuntukylin.com/ http://www.ubuntukylin.com/ and Debian Deepin - https://www.deepin.org/en/ https://www.deepin.org/en/
- em3rgent0rdr 7y agoBut according to the article: "This latest report suggests that any Linux variation would not meet the standards of the secure by design brief from the ISILG."
- A2017U1 7y agoGet the feeling Linux is a bit too "secure" for them.
- sandGorgon 7y agoyes - but the chinese govt has a large initiative in a custom built linux distro called Red Flag. Red Flag was made mandatory in a lot of public access points like cyber-cafes.
- dagw 7y ago_Had_ a large initiative. Red Flag shut down years ago.
- Nursie 7y agoSo this trade war thing was a really good idea then? We block Huawei, they ditch MS. Intel and AMD must be looking into risk and contingencies about now too...
- tty2300 7y agoI wonder if this will smash up the tech monopolies and encourage local innovation.
- xvector 7y agoCan’t tell if this is an effort by the PRC to push even more invasive spyware on citizens.
- HenryBemis 7y agoI think this is just a positive side-effect for PRC (which is miles away from a "PR"). China is playing the exact same card that USA does. Microsoft (willingly or not) have been playing ball with the 3-letter-agencies (3LA) to keep vulnerabilities secret and to the 3LA's advantage. If USA is going to 'cry wolf' on Huawei, then it is fair game that RPC will 'cry wolf' on Microsoft (and/or Cisco, and/or Oracle, and/or pick-your-own-company).
- ztratar 7y agoLet's not forget that China has blocked access to its market for US Technology companies for the last 10 years. This is not China playing the same card. This is China playing aggressively, as they have been. It's a smart strategy, don't get me wrong, but let's not claim the US as the initiators of these market-distorting actions.
- close04 7y agoFor most normal people it doesn’t matter who initiated it. Neither of the 2 parties have much credibility. Between the NSA hacking revelations and the way China cracks down on its own people it doesn’t feel like anyone would take either side from a moral standpoint. Oh, states will take sides out of interest: interest to make money, to get protection, to not become enemy via the “with me or against me ideology”. But not for any moral reason.
- ionised 7y agoThe US engages in market distortion all the time. What do you think the invasion of Iraq was all about?
- YayamiOmate 7y agoAt worst, cynically, I think it's our spyware vs their. US companies and xEyes in general lost privacy credibility some time ago. Both gov't s are known and proven to spy using big companies. And china isn't 1st here in issuing a ban, they are retaliating here.
- puranjay 7y agoIt's very clear that the next 30 years will be very different from the last 30 years. I doubt we'll ever come back to the same era of global trade anytime soon.
- westpfelia 7y agoI feel like were entering the 3rd phase of the cold war. Except now instead of political ideology guiding our hate/intentions its just hate.
- petre 7y agoOr we were too relaxed during the 2nd phase, until Russia annexed Crimea, Iran kept sponsoring their terrorist organisations, China started building military bases in the South China Sea to intimidate its neighbours and it's general secretary went on to hint at annexing Tawian by force. I'm not surprised that the current US administration is taking action against China. This should have started in 2014.
- mathw 7y agoIt felt like we had the means for a peaceful future this century, but then everyone starts acting like toddlers who aren't allowed unlimited sweets.
- rudiv 7y agoRelaxed, or distracted by waging 7 wars in MENA?
- babayega2 7y agoIrony.
- manderley 7y agoMeanwhile, the US was entirely passive, didn't operate bases anywhere and didn't invade anything. Totally relaxed.
- mlang23 7y agoRussia prepares to drop Windows as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astra_Linux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astra_Linux
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- Bucephalus355 7y agoThe real hacking threat is all those unlicensed copies of Microsoft Windows that never get updated + the fact of just how insecure Windows was until recently / somewhat remains + the 2x turnover lifetime of pc’s there vs here.
- thefounder 7y agoI can't blame them but it would be great if they would use or just fork (and maintain) an open source linux/unix distro. All US services/closed systems present a national security threat to sovereign states.
- devoply 7y agoAll networking gear and computing systems used for sensitive purposes need to be produced locally by each country. Or if they are going to be developed together then they need to be based on common open source components that are very well audited. That's the only sane approach to all of this. It's obvious that computing systems and networks can be used to steal data from and spy on all sorts of commercial and non-commercial matters and that matters a lot in negotiations between even friendly countries. What all of these countries should be doing is organizing these sorts of open source frameworks for developing future tech because it's obvious that it can be done that way and that individual countries are incapable of producing these goods on their own in various corrupt authoritarian sorts of governments.
- theredbox 7y agoOh wow so should be food, fuel and other stuff. Then we can call it a day and start a WW3. We are at peace because we depend on each other.
- devoply 7y agoYou can still depend on each other and have everything open source, open to scrutiny and audit.
- cordellwren 7y agoExcept self-sufficiency in critical industries like food and fuel ARE prime examples of things that any sane country fights tooth and nail for even today. The US has been pushing for increased rice exports to South Korea and Japan for decades now, but they've always pushed back successfully with the argument that protecting their agricultural industry is a matter of national security. This is from two countries that literally depend on the US for their military defense, and are among the closest allies the US could ever hope to have.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- xxxpupugo 7y agoThe Great Divergence, they called it. Computing as itself is getting more interesting than I would expect it.
- ptah 7y agoHopefully it's linux based and open source so I can give it a spin
- tcper 7y agoChina's home-grown OS is more insecure, corruptionist officer will do this.
- Koffiepoeder 7y ago> The irony of a nation state oft-associated with cyber-attacks on Western targets, both in the business and government spheres, blaming the U.S. hacking capability for the need to develop a custom OS is not lost on me. What irony? I thought that by this point it was clear that nations all over the world are hacking each other; it doesn't seem that far-fetched to try and protect your nation from that. Whether that should be through a new custom built OS is a different ball of wax.
- mathw 7y agoI wouldn't have said it's irony, it's a response to the US banning Huawei and the other shots fired in Trump's war on global trade.
- joe_the_user 7y agoQuotes article from the Epoch Times, the Falun Gong paper. This may not the most credible source. What would "China" dropping Microsoft windows mean? Surely not all Chinese companies stopping use, since that would be extremely disruptive. More likely a few ministries starting a program to try Linux. Not that a scenario where possession of an install disk would be a crime doesn't appeal to me. The weight of the entire Chinese state might help the Linux desktop crack 10% usage but suspect I'll have to dream on.
- cm2187 7y agoIsn’t the linux desktop mostly a driver problem? If it is the case I would assume that given the number of chinese manufacturers, China could force them to release suitable drivers. The linux desktop would reach a critical mass that would make it hard for non chinese manufacturers to neglect it. It would require more UI that there currently is. Even for simple things I often find myself stuck in front of a terminal, looking at the documentation to figure out how the damn thing works before I can even look for the right syntax.
- Const-me 7y agoIt's a clusterfuck of problems: https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.t...
- middleload 7y agoAs a 10 years user of Linux (at home and at work) let me tell you that page is full of FUD. It's picking up every issue on Linux and paints it as a disaster. Then it goes to "I have no idea what I'm talking about" mode with > There's no concept of drivers in Linux aside from proprietary drivers for NVIDIA/AMD GPUs
- Const-me 7y ago> It's picking up every issue on Linux and paints it as a disaster. Every time I tried to use Linux on desktop, I stopped due to a dozen of issues from that list. > There's no concept of drivers in Linux In Windows ecosystem, you buy hardware, plug it in, install drivers, and it works. On modern Windows, often they downloaded automatically by Windows, and start without reboots. I think the OP meant that Linux can't offer comparable UX. The drivers are compiled into the kernel. On the source level, this is due to the lack of the ABI.
- blauditore 7y agoI wonder how they want to achieve this. It's not trivial to just re-build Windows or Linux from scratch, but from the article it sounds like that's exactly want they're planning to do. Even with enough time, such a project requires highly skilled workers, and those are the ones that could also find good opportunities in the private sector (potentially outside China) with likely better compensation and less pressure. So I doubt they will find the best people for this job.
- sabas123 7y agoIf this will be a flagship project of the goverment I suspect they won't have a problem attracting talent. Also I wouldn't be suprised if they would dump money on top talent
- cm2187 7y agoAnd Google seems to be able to pull it (Fushia). The only real objection I can think of is how you convince hardware manufacturers en masse to write 4-6 drivers when they only needed to write 1-3 before.
- enitihas 7y agoWell, since a large number of hardware manufacturers are based in China, I think it won't be much of a problem for the PRC.
- notaboutdave 7y agoThey'll bang it out in a week without a hitch. Just like every sizable migration.
- karl_schlagenfu 7y agoLooks like 2019 will finally be the year of Linux on the desktop.
- jamisteven 7y agoThis article is pretty old.
- sabas123 7y agoFrom reading the article it seems it won't be a linux distribution. I also wonder if this will hit the consumer market or if it will just be a replacement for within the military. Either way it will be interesting to see if they succeed in making it more secure considering that they don't have technical debt to worry about.
- NetDot 7y agoSounds like China is going to have a silent logistical nightmare. When going through the airport I noticed they were using Vista and windows app, going to take a while to port the rest of it over to their linux distro.
- qcts33 7y agoIf this is true, it is acturally a good thing for us who live in China. Currently, a lot of chinese websites, especially for goverment websits, are using outdated even non-standard technologies.It is really a pain in the ass if you are a Mac or Linux user.
- tzoea 7y agoDoes your last name end in stein or berg?