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Even for HN, these are some of the most empathy-deficient comments that I've ever read. Yes, it's true that there is a huge problem with overwork for the franc

Even for HN, these are some of the most empathy-deficient comments that I've ever read. Yes, it's true that there is a huge problem with overwork for the franchisees. But those stores aren't there (just) for you. Imagine this scenario: you're over 80, living on your own and not very mobile. The fact that there's a 7-eleven within 100 metres that sells a large variety of foodstuffs and essential items in single portion sizes allows one to maintain one's independence, which is a godsend. Try that in LA! Japan values social-cohesion. Many of us who live here long term do too. Edit: admit there's a problem for the franchisees.

delhanty 7y ago
Oh - update! I'm living in a farming & fishing village about 800 metres from the nearest combi. After the local village shop shut down, the railway station 7-eleven started sending a van into the village once a week on a Wednesday afternoon so that the old people in the village could get their groceries.
blazespin 7y ago
Right, but the solution is probably automation and not overworked to death franchise owners.
- rangersanger 7y ago
  Overwork is better than no work. Automation may be part of the solution, but on its own it fails.
  - adventured 7y ago
    > Overwork is better than no work. No work is rarely the trade-off issue in Japan. They operate for quite different margins and labor practices than eg the US. They haven't had an unemployment rate over 5.5% in 40 years. The typical rate has been 3% to 3.5% for the last 30 years - a time in which they've suffered from perpetual economic stagnation and zero net growth. It's around 2.5% right now. Japan is losing population while simultaneously having an extraordinarily low unemployment rate. Automation is the only path forward, they should be pursuing it with as much vigor as possible. If you're Japan, as your population contracts, the ideal is to wipe out all convenience store jobs and push the labor force higher up the ladder whenever possible.
    - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
      > Automation is the only path forward, they should be pursuing it with as much vigor as possible. Well, they could always do more immigration. Its not like they don't do some already, and I think the Japanese will become much more open to it in the future.
      - m_mueller 7y ago
        As far as I understand Japan is already opening. Their new Visa score system is quite broad.
        MarkSweep 7y ago
        Wow, they made the point based thing quite a bit easier: http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/newimmiact_3/en/pdf/171110_leaflet.pdf http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/newimmiact_3/en/pdf/171110_leaflet... For example, you get points for JLPT N2 (previously only N1) and for patents you only need one (previously three, if IIRC).
        Scoundreller 7y ago
        The Ministry of Justice operates their immigration system???
ariwilson 7y ago
LA's a bad example; while there may not be a 7-Eleven every hundred meters, there's certainly one within a mile radius of most people in the city.
- esyir 7y ago
  A mile is a somewhat long distance to walk though. A hundred meters takes less than a minute, enough that I'll just pop out and get something random. the 10min++ to walk a mile is an exponential increase in friction.
  - crimsonalucard 7y ago
    Nobody walks in LA or most of california. You drive everywhere you need to go. CA is suburban with the exception of SF. A mile is a short drive. A convenience store every 100m is kind of excessive.
    - asdff 7y ago
      It depends on where you live. Tons of people go car free in CA, even in LA. Rent a car for the road trip, or a truck for ikea. A mile might be a short distance, but a long time and a longer park depending on the time of day. There are a lot more people motorcycling/biking/skateboarding/scootering in LA than ten years ago, because there are too many cars, not enough spots, and not enough space on the road to move them. And if you work downtown there are lots of places you can live that fall along the limited rail lines.
  - asdff 7y ago
    1 mile = 20 minute walk, 10 minute skateboard, 5 min bike, 3 min electric scooter, 2 min electric bike, for reference.
dang 7y ago
> Even for HN, these are some of the most empathy-deficient comments that I've ever read. That seems badly exaggerated, unless I'm missing some horrible comments. As for "Even for HN": this is the kind of putdown of the community that I feel compelled to respond to, since no one else will. Yes, people post unpleasant things to Hacker News, often without realizing it. But the overwhelming majority of users here are far from empathy-deficient, and relative to the rest of the public internet, particularly not. You might be running afoul of the paradox of HN being a non-siloed community, which I wrote about here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19931510 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19931510. Putting down or dissing the community that you're participating in is actually a subtle form of vandalism: why should we bother taking care of it if it sucks so much anyhow? It's also a way of keeping one's distance from others: I'm not really part of this icky group—I'm here, but I'm better. Actually anyone here is as much a part of it as anyone else, and while many things happen that make one cringe, so do many things that bring out good in people. We should focus on the latter, because what we focus on grows, and the community's image of itself is pretty shaky. On HN, we also value social cohesion, and that involves bridging a great many wide divides. Only so much of that is possible, but it's precious and deserves taking care of. Edit: sorry if it feels like I'm picking on you personally. That's not my intent at all. Your comment was otherwise excellent and the information you shared made this thread much better. I'm sorry to distract from that by responding to the least relevant bit. I hate doing that actually. But it's sort of a death by a thousand cuts thing, so we have to respond somewhere.
- TulliusCicero 7y ago
  Thank you for articulating this. I've noticed these kinds of comments are common on reddit, and since becoming a mod of a reasonably popular subreddit they've irked me, but I allowed them in the interest of free-ish speech/not wanting to be authoritarian, and also because I couldn't articulate exactly what the problem was. After all, I didn't think criticism of a given subreddit was categorically bad. This: > It's also a way of keeping one's distance from others: I'm not really part of this icky group—I'm here, but I'm better. is a brilliant way of putting it. Completely nails the impression. It's a passive-aggressive, condescending way of pushing yourself up by putting others down.
bkor 7y ago
How does your example explain how it would benefit an 80+ person that a franchise is open 24/7 or maybe 07:00-23:00? Especially as the owners themselves seem to be pretty old and in poor health because of the opening times.
crimsonalucard 7y ago
Well LA you typically have a car. Though not as convenient as japan there are definitely 24/7 convenience stores or supermarket spots within short driving distance to where I use to live.

delhanty 7y ago

Oh - update! I'm living in a farming & fishing village about 800 metres from the nearest combi. After the local village shop shut down, the railway station 7-eleven started sending a van into the village once a week on a Wednesday afternoon so that the old people in the village could get their groceries.

blazespin 7y ago

Right, but the solution is probably automation and not overworked to death franchise owners.

rangersanger 7y ago
Overwork is better than no work. Automation may be part of the solution, but on its own it fails.
- adventured 7y ago
  > Overwork is better than no work. No work is rarely the trade-off issue in Japan. They operate for quite different margins and labor practices than eg the US. They haven't had an unemployment rate over 5.5% in 40 years. The typical rate has been 3% to 3.5% for the last 30 years - a time in which they've suffered from perpetual economic stagnation and zero net growth. It's around 2.5% right now. Japan is losing population while simultaneously having an extraordinarily low unemployment rate. Automation is the only path forward, they should be pursuing it with as much vigor as possible. If you're Japan, as your population contracts, the ideal is to wipe out all convenience store jobs and push the labor force higher up the ladder whenever possible.
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    > Automation is the only path forward, they should be pursuing it with as much vigor as possible. Well, they could always do more immigration. Its not like they don't do some already, and I think the Japanese will become much more open to it in the future.
    - m_mueller 7y ago
      As far as I understand Japan is already opening. Their new Visa score system is quite broad.
      - MarkSweep 7y ago
        Wow, they made the point based thing quite a bit easier: http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/newimmiact_3/en/pdf/171110_leaflet.pdf http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/newimmiact_3/en/pdf/171110_leaflet... For example, you get points for JLPT N2 (previously only N1) and for patents you only need one (previously three, if IIRC).
        Scoundreller 7y ago
        The Ministry of Justice operates their immigration system???

ariwilson 7y ago

LA's a bad example; while there may not be a 7-Eleven every hundred meters, there's certainly one within a mile radius of most people in the city.

esyir 7y ago
A mile is a somewhat long distance to walk though. A hundred meters takes less than a minute, enough that I'll just pop out and get something random. the 10min++ to walk a mile is an exponential increase in friction.
- crimsonalucard 7y ago
  Nobody walks in LA or most of california. You drive everywhere you need to go. CA is suburban with the exception of SF. A mile is a short drive. A convenience store every 100m is kind of excessive.
  - asdff 7y ago
    It depends on where you live. Tons of people go car free in CA, even in LA. Rent a car for the road trip, or a truck for ikea. A mile might be a short distance, but a long time and a longer park depending on the time of day. There are a lot more people motorcycling/biking/skateboarding/scootering in LA than ten years ago, because there are too many cars, not enough spots, and not enough space on the road to move them. And if you work downtown there are lots of places you can live that fall along the limited rail lines.
- asdff 7y ago
  1 mile = 20 minute walk, 10 minute skateboard, 5 min bike, 3 min electric scooter, 2 min electric bike, for reference.

dang 7y ago

> Even for HN, these are some of the most empathy-deficient comments that I've ever read. That seems badly exaggerated, unless I'm missing some horrible comments. As for "Even for HN": this is the kind of putdown of the community that I feel compelled to respond to, since no one else will. Yes, people post unpleasant things to Hacker News, often without realizing it. But the overwhelming majority of users here are far from empathy-deficient, and relative to the rest of the public internet, particularly not. You might be running afoul of the paradox of HN being a non-siloed community, which I wrote about here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19931510 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19931510. Putting down or dissing the community that you're participating in is actually a subtle form of vandalism: why should we bother taking care of it if it sucks so much anyhow? It's also a way of keeping one's distance from others: I'm not really part of this icky group—I'm here, but I'm better. Actually anyone here is as much a part of it as anyone else, and while many things happen that make one cringe, so do many things that bring out good in people. We should focus on the latter, because what we focus on grows, and the community's image of itself is pretty shaky. On HN, we also value social cohesion, and that involves bridging a great many wide divides. Only so much of that is possible, but it's precious and deserves taking care of. Edit: sorry if it feels like I'm picking on you personally. That's not my intent at all. Your comment was otherwise excellent and the information you shared made this thread much better. I'm sorry to distract from that by responding to the least relevant bit. I hate doing that actually. But it's sort of a death by a thousand cuts thing, so we have to respond somewhere.

TulliusCicero 7y ago
Thank you for articulating this. I've noticed these kinds of comments are common on reddit, and since becoming a mod of a reasonably popular subreddit they've irked me, but I allowed them in the interest of free-ish speech/not wanting to be authoritarian, and also because I couldn't articulate exactly what the problem was. After all, I didn't think criticism of a given subreddit was categorically bad. This: > It's also a way of keeping one's distance from others: I'm not really part of this icky group—I'm here, but I'm better. is a brilliant way of putting it. Completely nails the impression. It's a passive-aggressive, condescending way of pushing yourself up by putting others down.

bkor 7y ago

How does your example explain how it would benefit an 80+ person that a franchise is open 24/7 or maybe 07:00-23:00? Especially as the owners themselves seem to be pretty old and in poor health because of the opening times.

crimsonalucard 7y ago

Well LA you typically have a car. Though not as convenient as japan there are definitely 24/7 convenience stores or supermarket spots within short driving distance to where I use to live.