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I'm really looking forward to this. But one issue with current AMD cpu is that you have to buy a desktop GPU even when you are not doing any kind of gaming and
by tmd83 7y ago
I'm really looking forward to this. But one issue with current AMD cpu is that you have to buy a desktop GPU even when you are not doing any kind of gaming and such. I know intel iGPU haven't been terribly good but for work they are good enough and is one less part and cheaper to boot. For same performance a Ryzen 3rd gen + gpu might still be cheaper but the price advantage gets reduced.
I haven't really seen that mentioned much I wonder why is that. I do love the potential for Zen2 + 7nm. The 65w of 3700x and the high frequency of the 3900X both suggest interesting potential for the future. One could end up seeing that the Ryzen 5, six cores might have higher overclocking headroom.
Then there's of course Navi, the first new GPU core in a long long time.
- MrGilbert 7y agoYou could pick a Ryzen with "G", like the Ryzen 5 2400G, though... They have an integrated GPU.
- deafcalculus 7y agoThey are limited to 4 cores. In the new lineup too, when G series comes out later, they'll be limited to 8 cores (one cliplet for CPU and one for GPU).
- zanny 7y agoWith this CPu chiplet design they couldn't have 2 8 core packages and a GPU on a single die. For the vast majority of professional use cases 8 core / 16 thread running at 4.5+ boost is going to be way enough for a while. AMD sure has spoiled the market in just two years on commoditizing 8 core desktop chips because in 2016 the conversation would be about what flavor of $400+ quadcore or $800+ sextacore from Intel you were going to get.
- NightlyDev 7y agoNot true. 3000 series APUs are based on zen+.
- Dylan16807 7y agoRead 'later' as 'presumably labeled with a misleading 4xxx'.
- redsparrow 7y agoUnfortunately there were no desktop G parts (APUs) on the Zen+ architecture (as far as I know.) And they're not in the first round of Zen 2 either. The 2400G, which I think is currently the top desktop APU, launched in Feb. 2018 and has four cores.
- snvzz 7y agoNothing stops integrators from using the 3xxxU parts and the old 2xxxG parts. Regardless, I do expect G parts will be announced soon, too. 3 CPUs definitely isn't a full lineup.
- carc1n0gen 7y ago2xxx series is zen+, also ops complaint was about current gen ryzen, which the 2200G and 2400G fall in to.
- onli 7y agoThose APUs are a weird mix between Zen and Zen+, they got improvements over Zen but they are not fully Zen+, and they even have some unique drawbacks (the TIM, they are not soldered).
- blattimwind 7y agoComplaining about TIM on an entry-level processor seems... questionable.
- onli 7y agoI was just highlighting that there are differences. Though that temps are higher because of that, resulting in more work for the cooler, is not ideal for a CPU that's apart from that great for a HTPC.
- redsparrow 7y agoAh, interesting. Thanks for the clarification.
- tmd83 7y agoI know of the G series and I know why they are usually a GEN behind specially given the quality of discrete graphics AMD has and they need to sale. But for work, for just productivity a lot of the savings washes up with the GPU. It used to be that you get super lowend graphics card for those workload but these days almost the lowest price GPU is ~90.
- AnthonyMouse 7y ago$39: https://www.newegg.com/visiontek-radeon-5450-900860/p/N82E16814129320?Item=9SIAFJ88TD6196 https://www.newegg.com/visiontek-radeon-5450-900860/p/N82E16... Hardly the latest technology but you can plug a monitor into it.
- CoolGuySteve 7y agoNo DisplayPort and it almost certainly doesn’t support 4k at 60Hz, both of which the Intel chipset supports and both of which I’d consider essential for high-end productivity use these days.
- copperx 7y agoI still don't get how people are making use of 4k outside MacOS. Windows and Linux Desktop environments require tons of massaging to get scaling right, even with flagship software (some Adobe programs don't scale properly). Here we are, 8 years after Apple started shipping "Retina" displays, and PC software hasn't caught up. It's embarrassing.
- CoolGuySteve 7y agoI use Ubuntu on a 13" 4k laptop with 2x scaling and I've never had any issues.
- broknbottle 7y agoah the OG king of HTPC/Media PC Graphics card. I used to have one in a HTPC paired with an Intel Q6600
- jxi 7y agoFunny I feel the opposite. If I'm going to build a desktop, I figure I would get a GPU either way (having a full discrete GPU being one of the main advantages of desktops over more portable formats). I feel like I'm wasting money if I go with Intel that comes with an iGPU that I won't use.
- deafcalculus 7y agoYep. Intel iGPUs have good open source Linux drivers too. I had hoped that AMD would have some basic graphics in the IO die, but it looks like that won't happen.
- skrebbel 7y agoWhen I put together my computer a year or two ago, I just added some cheap $40 radeon board. It really didn't impact the bottom line much.
- jdietrich 7y ago>But one issue with current AMD cpu is that you have to buy a desktop GPU even when you are not doing any kind of gaming and such. AMD just aren't selling many CPUs to business desktop system integrators, partly due to dubious tactics by Intel to keep them out of the market. If you sell most of your CPUs to enthusiasts, it just doesn't make sense to squander die area on a crappy iGPU. Gamers obviously want a fast GPU, but so do most creative professionals - Photoshop is heavily GPU accelerated, as is Premiere and Resolve, not to mention essentially all 3D modelling and CAD packages. Scientific computing is also rapidly moving towards the GPU. GPU performance has a surprisingly large impact on day-to-day responsiveness, because all the major browsers use GPU compositing. The market for fast chips with crappy iGPUs just isn't as big as it used to be, nor is it particularly accessible to AMD. The Athlon and Ryzen APUs make a great deal of sense for the current market, offering a good balance of performance between CPU and GPU. I expect to see 6 and 8 core Ryzen chips with Vega GPU cores as part of the Ryzen 3000 generation, which will further close the gap.
- njepa 7y agoThat is probably true, but if I am buying a GPU for hundreds of dollars I don't care as much about the cost of the CPU. I think AMD needs to do something if they want to fulfill the potential of Ryzen. (Removing or minimizing the role of the chipset might be interesting for example).
- jpgvm 7y agoNot necessarily. For instance if your target is 1080p gaming you can do that on a budget with an RX 570 or RX 580 + a reasonably priced Ryzen 7 chip. This market isn't at all competitive for Intel because it's price conscious and iGPUs aren't anywhere near up to to task. The only market that doesn't care about CPU price is the market that doesn't care about price at all. i.e people building systems with i9-9900K or X299 platform + RTX 2080 TIs.
- njepa 7y agoI am just not sure it is a super strong market. As far as I can tell those cards have been selling for roughly the same price or more as when they were introduced 2 years ago. A lot of people would just stick with what they got, or get a laptop instead. If the price of GPUs and memory was half of what it is it would make a lot more sense.
- gigatexal 7y agoIt's my understanding that Navi is just GCN but tweaked with faster memory.
- rudiv 7y agoTFA seems to state that it's a new architecture, although how different it is from GCN depends on how much salt you take with marketing material. They did say it has redesigned compute units; that seems to point in the direction of "not just tweaks".
- NightlyDev 7y agoIt's not, it's "RDNA".
- gigatexal 7y agoThanks for clarifying. I read the article. I’m excited to see benchmarks.
- gigatexal 7y agoThe G-line of CPUs with integrated graphics is also interesting to me as well! As system ram gets quicker (it's my understanding that the frame buffer for these integrated GPUs comes from system ram) and nanometer tech gets better that a competent integrated GPU+CPU chip will be able to play AAA games at 1080P with some of the visuals turned up. Though the conspiracy theorist in me thinks that the console makers would never let that happen as it would mean DIY PC gamers would be able to build < 500 USD machines that could be play all the latest games.
- teknologist 7y agoSince console manufacturers seem to have been favouring AMD for graphics lately, this could actually be the reason for a lack of AMD iGPUs
- lm28469 7y agoYou can get a cheap passive gpu, most don't even need power from the PSU. Something like a nvidia GT 710 or 730.
- justaj 7y agoIs there anything similar but from AMD? As a Linux user I'd rather not buy nVidia.
- philjohn 7y agoSomething like the R5 230 or RX 460, several generations old, but will do.
- posix_me_less 7y agoUnfortunately the market with low power AMD cards is non-existent. Maybe some older HD model if you can find it second-hand, but those can't do 4K@60Hz. There is no low powered (=passive cooling) card based on the recent AMD chips. I wanted GPU with only passive cooling for my Xeon machine, had to buy lowend NVIDIA. Hopefully Navi at the end of the year will finally change this.
- Zekio 7y agoWhat are you talking about? you can get RX550s that are passive or even one of the rare RX560s which are passively cooled
- sascha_sl 7y agoThere's always the 2200G and the 2400G, I'd expect those to get refreshed within the next year too.
- szatkus 7y agoThey use the same chip for desktop and for server market where it doesn't make much sense to add a crappy iGPU. Intel with their scale could build much more different chips.
- bitL 7y agoMobo manufacturers could solder some weak GPU on board, but nobody seems to be interested so I guess they did their homework and decided it didn't make any economical sense.
- carc1n0gen 7y ago2200G and 2400G from current gen ryzen have integrated graphics though.
- DCKing 7y agoIf you want a discrete GPU with the same featureset as a modern integrated Intel GPU - with basic desktop features such as 1) being able to decode modern video codecs like HEVC 2) prime Windows and (especially) Linux support or 3) modern video outputs such as HDMI 2.0 - you need to buy a Radeon RX550. This will still set you back more than $80 and add another fan to your build. A Radeon R7 240 from 6 years ago will still set you back $50, but will not give you modern video outputs or video codecs (although it at least still has relatively prime driver support). It's probably even slower than Intel's current integrated graphics too. Might as well go for the upsell then. The prevalence of internal GPUs unfortunately seems to have killed the market for up-to-date very low end discrete GPUs. The "budget stuff" starts at $80, which is quite steep for something that barely has added value over an integrated GPU.
- MikusR 7y agoEven the newest AMD Gpus don't have full VP9 (Youtube) acceleration.
- DCKing 7y agoTechnically AMD's APUs (the Ryzen 2400G and other CPUs with integrated GPU of the Vega generation) do support it, but for some reason AMD has never enabled this in their discrete cards. Neither have they released a low end Vega discrete card either. They have the tech, but don't seem to be interested much in the low end.
- deaddodo 7y ago> But one issue with current AMD cpu is that you have to buy a desktop GPU even when you are not doing any kind of gaming and such. What? No you don't. They literally have an entire line dedicated to the exact use case you mentioned (CPU w/ iGPU for business use): https://www.amd.com/en/products/apu/amd-ryzen-5-pro-2400g https://www.amd.com/en/products/apu/amd-ryzen-5-pro-2400g
- dethac 7y agoThe 2400G existed. It's a lower end chip, but has the GPU you want.