18 ms·

South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

627 points by jrepinc 7y ago

jacquesm 7y ago
Cue a concerted effort by MS salespeople to make them an offer they can't refuse. See also: Munich.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- techntoke 7y ago
  Cue a concerted effort by MS salespeople to find their targets to blackmail or pay off to make the decision behind closed doors, and to spam all social media with defeatism using their AI bot farms.
- macspoofing 7y ago
  That's not why Munich moved back to Windows. They moved back because supporting Linux workstations for their workforce was hard and expensive. It wasn't very popular with the end-users either.
  - pojntfx 7y ago
    Not true. Microsoft built a huge local branch there and as a result they've moved back into the dark abyss that is proprietary, non-free software.
    - macspoofing 7y ago
      That is the conspiracy theory that some are telling themselves: that this is THE reason why Munich moved away. AS IF! Here's something more likely: Munich was ready to move back because the project was expensive to maintain, cumbersome in practice, killed productivity and was generally unpopular with the end-users, and Microsoft's new branch was just a cherry on top.
      - commoner 7y ago
        Microsoft made major political moves after LiMux adoption began. They relocated their German headquarters to Munich, and a new mayor (Dieter Reiter) was elected after the Microsoft employees moved to Munich. Reiter initiated the reversal from LiMux to Windows, while the previous mayor (Christian Ude) refused to do so despite in-person appeals from Steve Ballmer. You might not like this line of argument, but it's not a "conspiracy theory" since it's well-supported. It's disingenuous to completely dismiss the role of political influence on a government decision. https://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-in-munich-no-compelling-technical-reason-to-return-to-windows-says-citys-it-chief/ https://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-in-munich-no-comp...
        klingonopera 7y ago
        "There is the allegation that you as former head of the department of economy have made a deal with Microsoft to move its headquarter to Munich and in exchange you now deliver the return to their products. Does this connection exist?" - "No, definitely not." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBRh2G29NNE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBRh2G29NNE
        commoner 7y ago
        I did not allege that Reiter "made a deal with Microsoft". My point was that Microsoft gained political clout as a result of moving its headquarters to Munich, which influenced the city's decision to switch back from LiMux to Windows.
        macspoofing 7y ago
        >You might not like this line of argument, but it's not a "conspiracy theory" since it's well-supported. But it isn't. You just asserted it. I don't dispute the facts at hand, but you can't just link those together and assert causality when there is no evidence for it . >It's disingenuous to completely dismiss the role of political influence on a government decision. I don't know what to do with that. There is no evidence and everyone disputes the corrupt link you assert. Not only that, there is an alternative explanation: the Linux deployment wasn't popular, killed productivity, and wasn't cheap to maintain. What you're doing is the definition of FUD.
    - oblio 7y ago
      You may dislike it, but calling it a "dark abyss" is pushing it. Probably 95% of people in tech get a paycheck due to non-free software. And yes, Googlers & co., that includes you, even if the small lib you released is Open Source, the magic sauce powering Page Rank, Analytics, AdWords and such isn't.
- maximus1983 7y ago
  That is a flat out lie. https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/11/13/munich_committee_says_all_windows_2020 https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/11/13/munich_committee_sa... > Hübner said the city has struggled with LiMux adoption. "Users were unhappy and software essential for the public sector is mostly only available for Windows," she said. > She estimated about half of the 800 or so total programs needed don't run on Linux and "many others need a lot of effort and workarounds". > Hübner added, "in the past 15 years, much of our efforts were put into becoming independent from Microsoft," including spending "a lot of money looking for workarounds" but "those efforts eventually failed." https://www.neowin.net/news/munich-germany-realizes-that-deploying-linux-was-a-disaster-going-back-to-windows/ https://www.neowin.net/news/munich-germany-realizes-that-dep... > https://www.neowin.net/news/munich-germany-realizes-that-deploying-linux-was-a-disaster-going-back-to-windows/ https://www.neowin.net/news/munich-germany-realizes-that-dep... Looks like the open source equivalents for the software didn't deal well enough with different file formats.
  - sascha_sl 7y ago
    This is not flat out wrong, it's just the officially given reason. Not the entire story. The source is in German, but EN Wikipedia sums it up nicely: "In 2018, journalistic group Investigate Europe released a video documentary via German public television network ARD, wherein it is claimed that the majority of city workers were satisfied with the operating system, with council members insinuating that the reversal was a personally motivated decision by lord mayor Dieter Reiter. Reiter denied that he had initiated the reversal in gratitude for Microsoft moving its German headquarters from Unterschleißheim back to Munich." This is also worth a read: https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2017/02/14/statement-by-the-document-foundation-about-the-upcoming-discussion-at-the-city-of-munich-to-step-back-to-windows-and-ms-office/ https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2017/02/14/statemen... In short, it _was_ MSFT lobby grease.
    - maximus1983 7y ago
      So you link a biased source against Microsoft to prove that Microsoft were conspiring with the council. They're reason to exist is to make Microsoft look bad.
ducttape12 7y ago
I remember hearing years ago IE usage was crazy high in South Korea because they had laws in place requiring all online banking customers to install an ActiveX control. If that's true... Then they've come pretty far.
- bootlooped 7y ago
  Even after ActiveX was on the way out they still had some pretty wacky practices. Korean websites requiring users to install proprietary security software was not uncommon.
  - kijin 7y ago
    > Korean websites requiring users to install proprietary security software was not uncommon. It still is common. They just replaced ActiveX plugins with native Windows apps because ActiveX has a bad rep. It's still Windows through and through, and most of those "security" apps are borderline spyware. I have to use Korean banks and government websites daily for business, and I keep them safely segregated inside a VM.
    - darkhorn 7y ago
      Easy; run Windows XP, IE, ActiveX in a virtual machine. Use Linux as your main OS.
      - kijin 7y ago
        Windows 7 with IE11 currently seems to be the sweet spot. Even in Korea, using XP has been frowned upon for a few years now :)
        hocuspocus 7y ago
        Yup, and the free Win7+IE11 VM from Microsoft doesn't really expire (you can rearm the license indefinitely).
- 7y ago
tooltalk 7y ago
> ... as Microsoft’s free technical support for Windows 7 expires in January 2020. they are still on Windows 7? ouch!!!
- cvnyw 7y ago
  Lighter and easier to manage than 10... why not?
  - chris_wot 7y ago
    Can't run Windows 7 on Skylake and greater chipsets.
    - wswkb 7y ago
      Don't know what makes you think those computers are running a chipset that was launched late in 2015.
    - klingonopera 7y ago
      Intel i5 6600K on a Z170 with Windows 7 reporting in, that statement is definitely not true. Installing is not straightforward though, you have to load drivers into the installation environment if you're using M.2 or USB 3.x. IMHO the effort I need to learn that causes me far less frustration than having to use Windows 10. My total experience (helping colleagues/friends with their Win 10 systems) is probably less than 60 minutes in total, but one look at that start menu with actual internet-loaded ads (!) was enough to dissuade me from ever installing that OS on any of my systems. If they're greedy enough to blatantly do that, who knows what kinds of other dark patterns lurk within that OS...
      - chris_wot 7y ago
        Oops, I got the chipset wrong. It's Kaby Lake that I was thinking of. Apologies.
- dictum 7y ago
  Maybe I got older and life lost some color, but the difference between Windows 10 and Windows 7 doesn't feel like the difference between 7 and XP. Seems like most of the action (outside gaming and Office power users) has moved to browsers and browser wrappers.
babakandishmand 7y ago
Curious if they'd roll out their own distro.
- thewhitetulip 7y ago
  That will be too much work. Why not use well maintained existing distros?
  - zzzcpan 7y ago
    Why would that be too much work? I expect total cost of ownership for the government distro to be way less, than using those "well maintained" ones.
    - thewhitetulip 7y ago
      If I understand correctly, we are talking about taking a well maintained distro and continuously updating it? Why? If the idea is to save money why would the govt build its own version? And I don't mean a Korean theme, I mean a full version Building a one time theme or anything of that sort is okay, I think. But it'll be costly to maintain a distro
    - sonnyblarney 7y ago
      Why would a government maintain their own distro in the first place? Other than some minor modifications, what is it about S. Korea gov. officials that's fundamentally different from Office workers that they need specific Linux functionality? Surely at the level of app/drivers or something, but probably not core functionality. The whole point of the process was to save money, and one of the ways they can do that is by standardization. Any deviation for de-facto standards can be costly in many ways, especially in terms of risk.
      - zzzcpan 7y ago
        Fundamentally different are at least timeframes and security. Think decades of operations and advanced persistent threats.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
thewhitetulip 7y ago
I hope that Indian govt switches to Linux
- _emacsomancer_ 7y ago
  I think the way forward here is getting more Linux support at lower levels, including the state-level. There has been some progress on this front, especially in Kerala, and also in Assam: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adoption_of_free_and_open-source_software_by_public_institutions#India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adoption_of_free_and_open-sour...
  - thewhitetulip 7y ago
    Recently state govts of Telangana and Gujarat have shifted to Linux As have many colleges What I was talking is the central govt and all govt undertakings. It'll be huge. Windows and IE6 is standard and they are bad, they hang a lot
- gcells 7y ago
  Boss Linux developed by CDAC comes to mind https://www.bosslinux.in/ https://www.bosslinux.in/ Although the penetration is quite low. The project looked stalled few years back, seems like they are back again. Last release is dated 28.8.2018
Yeri 7y ago
I used to support our office in S. Korea. It's true they depend super heavily on ActiveX and other weird applets/software that runs only on Windows and/or IE. A lot of the communication with the government (yearly tax submission) as well as banking software would not run on our Linux or OSX devices, and so we had these 'loaner' windows 'tax machines' that got reimaged every few days that people could use to do their business. They also have their own Office-like suite by Hancon[1], that is a pain to support and only runs on Windows. There were attempts to have gDrive to be able to read the files but afaik that never worked out. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hancom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hancom
- kijin 7y ago
  The word processor by Hancom is actually pretty nice, especially for composing Korean-only and mixed Korean-and-English documents. I've been using it since before I even knew that MS Word existed, and I still prefer it to MS Word for anything that contains CJK characters. The proprietary file format is a PITA, though. Hancom did release a Linux version of their office suite a few years ago, and regularly updates the OSX version. Moreover, Hancom has been dabbling in Linux for over 20 years. They even maintained their own Red Hat-based distro at some point. They also support OpenDocument and OOXML fairly well. In short, Hancom has been hedging their bets very thoroughly. So if the government adopts Linux by any chance, it won't be difficult for them to go fully cross-platform and keep their lucrative government contracts.
  - a-afterglow 7y ago
    Have you been using it since its first release? I find it surprising you hadn't heard about MS Office if you were already using Hancom.
    - kijin 7y ago
      Yeah, I've used H.ngeul since 1990 -- version 1.2 I think. MS Word already existed, of course, but I didn't hear about it nor actually get to use it until a few years later. I was a kid and didn't have internet back then, so news was slow :p
NortySpock 7y ago
As I recall, this sort of public statement is used as a lever to squeeze some discounts out of Microsoft's Enterprise Sales team before the government "decides" to stay with Windows.
- AsyncAwait 7y ago
  As a Linux aficionado, I have to agree with you, unfortunately. I've seen this too many times over the years not to be cynical about it.
  - jaabe 7y ago
    As someone who likes Linux and genuinely believe that software that was paid for by the public should be open source, I just have to ask you why that is. I work in a Danish municipality with 100.000 citizens. We operate more than 300 IT systems, some of these are one of a kind systems that have no alternatives and some of those only run on Windows. We also have 8000 employees, a lot of them couldn’t tell you if the smartphone they use each day is an android or an iPhone. They know windows and they know office, switching them to pages and macOS would be almost impossible, Linux and libre office is out of the question. We have an IT staff of skilled people who were willing to skip pay for ideology they are all certified Microsoft and have little other education. They could all easily leave for other positions in the Microsoft infrastructure. It would cost around a million to replace just one of them. We could easily switch our tech to Linux, we would need to build a lot of replacement software but that could be done in a reasonably manner, but moving the business side to Linux would be the most expensive thing we ever did. Which is why I’m a skeptic of something I believe should happen. We pay a tech tax to Microsoft, by we can’t stop. It’s just not doable.
    - detaro 7y ago
      partial counter-point: many large companies, universities, schools etc have switched to things like Google Docs. Most use of office software is simple enough that people can transfer (afaik a big part in the Munich migration was making sure all the templates used for common documents where ported properly and people could easily access to). Specialist software is a big problem of course, likely leading to a parallel Windows infrastructure of some kind, either dedicated Windows workstations for the workers that need it or a terminal-server setup of some kind - I know companies that used the latter to keep Windows XP applications available in an isolated environment too. But it's all a bespoke process.
robertAngst 7y ago
What does 'Linux OS' mean? Various Linux desktop distros? If so, have mercy on anyone who will be using Ubuntu Desktop for the first time. I hope they aren't afraid of using Terminal, because the internet will shout them down for wanting a GUI solution. Love Ubuntu server, but could never get into linux desktop.
- jimmaswell 7y ago
  The elitism can be absurd. Sometimes I wonder if it's stockholm syndrome. "You want to configure things with a GUI with discoverability? Not read a dissertation-length man page and edit config files whose syntax changes between versions so you can't even rely on google results? Go back to winbl0ws"
  - swiley 7y ago
    Most of the config files are (IMHO) much more discoverable than most GUIs, usually the default config has the default settings commented out along with a block of comments explaining them. A lot of GUI apps I've used have really crappy settings dialogs that don't explain things well and aren't searchable. But it's really the individual app, both can be done nicely or poorly, config files are often easier to implement and copy between machines and app versions (at least that's the feeling I've gotten.) And at least with config files there's something to google. GUIs change even more often (there are even fewer reasons to keep them stable than config file syntax.) Also you're not really supposed to read through the entire man page for an app that you only touch once or twice, you're supposed to just search for what you need and leave. My personal opinion is that GUIs are often less user friendly, they just look friendlier. GUIs make it easier to sell software, not to use it. Free software isn't being sold and that's why it tends to not have a GUI.
  - pushpop 7y ago
    I have a theory on why guides in Linux are predominantly text based and it has nothing to do with elitism. I think it’s a mixture of two factors: 1. From the perspective of the writer, it’s much easier to describe instructions via text when publishing those instructions via a predominately text-based medium such as web sites. The alternative is taking screenshots and editing those images to highlight relevant widgets. This is more time consuming and not ever site offers an easy way to upload those images (meaning you’re then sometimes having to manually upload them) nor even embed them into the discussion (eg HN). And on top of that, you still need some text to accompany the images anyway. So you might as well go with a text driven solution. And if you’re having to describe a UI in text, it’s obviously going to be easier to do so with a text based UI than a graphical UI. This is a problem I’ve personally experienced as someone who used to write a lot of documentation for graphical UIs. It can be annoying and remember that a lot of time, people providing guides are those volunteering their time. So naturally people will opt for a lazier approach. 2. The other major factor for why I think CLI instructions are so common even on desktop Linux is because there isn’t a single agreed standard desktop environment. Not even a standard GUI toolkit, let alone DE. Arguments about whether this choice / fragmentation is a net good or bad thing aside; it makes much more sense to offer a guide that is going to be more universal (as the CLI on Linux tends to be - notwithstanding some district-specific file system hierarchies). Where as a guide with images will not only be very specific to using that unique management tool but would also be subject to any changes to the UI of that tool even if the underlying configuration files haven’t changed. So with CLI examples you end up with a guide that is not only more universal but also has greater longevity. The longevity point is something that can frustrate less technically capable Windows users who are left confused each time Microsoft decide to redesign their Control Panel applets (et al) and Linux isn’t any less subject to UI changes in its graphical frontends either. So it does make some sense to provide instructions to configuring things directly in the backend - even if it seems counterintuitive to a desktop user. Ultimately though, I don’t see anyone who uses Linux being rude about those who use GUIs. At worst they might recommend using the CLI if someone has tried configuring something from a GUI and found themselves getting stuck because options aren’t getting applied in a way that was being expected. However there are examples when the reverse is also true. For example on HN a few weeks ago some CLI users moaning about the complexity of kemu was repeatedly (and rightfully) recommended to use a frontend instead.
tpae 7y ago
Does this mean their shitty Active X plugins will be fazed out?
antmanler 7y ago
Then run a full linux kernel upon WSL2...
- techntoke 7y ago
  WSL2 isn't out yet, and WSL sucked so much that I imagine WSL 2 won't be much better.
  - als0 7y ago
    > WSL sucked so much that I imagine WSL 2 won't be much better Why does it suck? Is it an issue of compatibility or performance? At least WSL2 will fix the former.
    - techntoke 7y ago
      Again, you are talking about something that isn't even released yet. It sucks because the Linux distros available for it are now outdated, it utilizes a specific outdated kernel, it is extremely slow.. the file system is about 20x slower doing most file-system related tasks. Copy/paste doesn't work well without XLaunch (and then stills sucks). There was never a good terminal for it, and the new one doesn't address if it will provide mouse support for things like Vim, it didn't support Docker. There are many more nuances, but that is just a few. Let's not forget though that Windows package management is the worst out of all the operating systems, so even if you have WSL, you are still going to be suck maintaining a crappy OS using terrible bloated installers that leave files everywhere and a crappy package manager like Chocolatey that is falling further behind repos like AUR and Arch.
      - Dylan16807 7y ago
        > the Linux distros available for it are now outdated That's what apt-get is for. > it utilizes a specific outdated kernel Lots of distros do that. > it is extremely slow.. the file system is about 20x slower doing most file-system related tasks That's a windows problem, not a WSL problem. > There was never a good terminal for it Don't you have the choice of almost all existing windows and linux terminals? How can none of those be good? And normal windows installers have nothing to do with it. The lack of docker support is important, but let's not ignore that they're in the middle of fixing it.
Grollicus 7y ago
Hope that works as well for them as the switch to Linux worked for Munich
- beefhash 7y ago
  Except that Munich switched back[1]. [1] https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/11/13/munich_committee_says_all_windows_2020/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/11/13/munich_committee_sa...
  - Grollicus 7y ago
    After Microsoft moved their german headquaters to Munich, which of course had nothing to do with their decision to switch back.
    - klingonopera 7y ago
      A two-year-old interview with Munich's mayor on that issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBRh2G29NNE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBRh2G29NNE
      - leadingthenet 7y ago
        Difficult not to agree with the view that some corruption took place there. Dude seems shady and technically illiterate.
  - LateRuin 7y ago
    Wooosh
seddin 7y ago
They are going to be amazed by how much they wasted by using Windows.
conrmahr 7y ago
maybe they should use Kali?
- conrmahr 7y ago
  tough crowd, just a joke.
AFascistWorld 7y ago
China has this "original" OS called Redflag Linux, it's basically repackaged Linux to rake in government money, sells to military for some 500 usd per pc, the kickback must be big.
- chillacy 7y ago
  And yet nothing is as common as pirated windows. Even one of the displays in an airport crashed and there was a bsod
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    It might not have been pirated. Microsoft has done well with getting the government/SOEs to actually by windows over the last decade, probably at a significant discount but whatever. Piracy just isn’t mostly worth it anymore.
  - skrebbel 7y ago
    How does that make it pirated? (It's super common for information displays everywhere to run Windows)
thiago_fm 7y ago
I doubt this will work out. They also tried that in many countries, they all go back to using Windows. I hate Windows, but I can envision how much money AND time it's gonna cost them to move out, and I'm sure that they will either run out of money before they do the transition, or machines would have already dominated the earth before they are done with this "transition"l I would believe it much more if they said that they will try to use more Linux, try to mix them up, or create APIs for everything etc. Nowadays it's so easy to create services and use LDAP or whatever thing you want with whatever programming language or service. You can host it on Linux and start changing some computers and systems to Linux. But "switch from X to Y" seems a terrible idea. Even as a personal computer user, for me, it's impossible to "switch". Imagine for a government. It's a hilarious statement, one of those that politicians do say, but they have no fucking clue of what they are saying.
- jcelerier 7y ago
  > They also tried that in many countries, they all go back to using Windows. uhh... no, here in France a lot of public infrastructure runs on linux.
  - klingonopera 7y ago
    The list of LibreOffice users hasn't grown, but hasn't shrunk either[0]. Kudos to the French for so far being the biggest Western-state to implement FOSS. Apart from the obvious benefit of lower cost, security and personal individualization are further benefits. No matter what the politicians or business will tell you: Any government running Windows on their systems is basically broadcasting their data straight into US secret services. There's nothing stopping them from doing that. Who would prosecute them? Would US law enforcement have motivation to do that? And when it comes to individualization: Any open standard that allows any other third party to develop products with will (if left to its own means) always win out against proprietary solutions, since you can pitch all the third parties against each other to compete for the lowest bid. But since it's not about getting cost-effective IT, the governments don't appear too concerned of the US knowing all their secrets and Microsoft is definitely more capable of pampering politicians than 3rd party Linux developers could, absurd requirements dot every government contract to bar said Linux developers and leave Microsoft as the only "viable" choice. [0]: https://www.libreoffice.org/discover/who-uses-libreoffice/ https://www.libreoffice.org/discover/who-uses-libreoffice/
dbmueller 7y ago
Recently there was a votation in my town, to decide whether to accept a budget for renewing the schools IT infrasture. It included office365 accounts and new computers and tablets (presumably ipads) I wonder how different it would be were they using an OSS stack. Any stories?
- edtechstrats 7y ago
  Best example I am aware of is from Penn Manor SD in PA, but others exist. [1] https://opensource.com/education/14/9/interview-charlie-reisinger-penn-manor https://opensource.com/education/14/9/interview-charlie-reis... [2] https://lancasteronline.com/opinion/editorials/penn-manor-s-student-computer-program-offers-a-lesson-to/article_ff2da7ce-084d-11e7-a800-e3b2c204e782.html https://lancasteronline.com/opinion/editorials/penn-manor-s-... [3] https://technology.pennmanor.net/open-source-in-school/ https://technology.pennmanor.net/open-source-in-school/
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
openfuture 7y ago
Hurray!
temptemptemp111 7y ago
They should author KBSD (KoreanBSD)! We need more OS competiton.
maskiii 7y ago
The dream of a free OS. I've heard something like this in the south-Indian state of Kerala as well.
slyu 7y ago
I wonder if this is something that can be accomplshied at a scale, particually thinking in the context of maintaining upgrade readiness and update compliance for all the devices.
- techntoke 7y ago
  Absolutely, it is very easy to automate too. Arch has a great package manager BTW.
oregontechninja 7y ago
At this rate, it really feels like the next version of Windows will be derived from some Unix os. Windows 8 and onwards has been an unmitigated IT disaster. Windows Server is meh. I once ran Ubuntu mate with a windows theme on a computer terminal in a computer lab, and everybody clamored to use it since it was faster, better at printing, and never bluescreened. (That particular model was forced into "obselecence" by windows 10). Just throw a custom graphical shell over a hardened Unix os, then use Valve's proton project for application comparability. You could be so rich using other people's work Microsoft.
- techntoke 7y ago
  Agreed, yet their goal is to build their own crappy version so that people think Linux sucks, when in reality it is still MS. I blame their culture though. No one who appreciates quality open source wants to work there.
  - 0815test 7y ago
    > Agreed, yet their goal is to build their own crappy version so that people think Linux sucks, when in reality it is still MS. Can't do it, Google owns that business model. I mean, they managed to do that twice? Must have taken them some serious effort!
    - techntoke 7y ago
      Not really, Microsoft has a lot of enterprise customers and when their first user experience to Linux is WSL they are immediately turned off and unable to even take it seriously. I can at least take Android and ChromeOS serious enough to see it being viable for most desktop users and small businesses. Android, along with G Suite, is great for mobile enterprise management.
      - hobs 7y ago
        Then why did Microsoft just recently patch it and make it better? (WSL)
gchamonlive 7y ago
What I really don't understand is why commercial stations (like burger king's, ice cream stands etc...) uses windows when all those computers do is show either videos or static images
- maximus1983 7y ago
  It will be either one of these or a combination of these. * Windows has been approved by management to be the only OS allowed on the computer network * The software for showing the static images / videos and whatever manages it will have been written on Windows or even DOS * The manufacturer of said machines whoever wrote their software was Windows Developer and it is cheaper just to ship a copy of Windows Embedded then to rewrite the software , QA and integrate it. I have a piece of software that I get small support contracts for. I tell clients it is Windows only. There is nothing stopping me from deploying to Linux or even one of the BSDs (I think). I just can't be bothered to deal with differences in distros, going through a QA process etc when it won't really get me many more sales.
- klingonopera 7y ago
  I'm guessing here: The guys installing those arguably very simple IT-systems mostly couldn't bother with Linux. Add to that, (at least here in Germany) BK is a franchise that sells licenses to franchise operators, so I doubt they have strict requirements on the actual IT setup, just the pictures they need to display. So you have very normal, run-off-the-mill managers and IT services, the former unable to grasp that Windows 10 with constant updates and fuck-ups will constantly require the services of the IT guys, and the latter naturally profiting of that. The increased margin of not using Windows wouldn't be enough to compensate that, and an increased price for a Linux package is something very difficult to convince those managers of. And then also IT-people well versed in Linux usually have clients who pay substantially more than simply outfitting non-IT businesses with IT-equipment.
- arjunbajaj 7y ago
  I've seen Burger King use Linux on their displays in India...
- gridlockd 7y ago
superos 7y ago
I switched 20 years ago. What took them so long?
- WilliamEdward 7y ago
  uh you're just 1 person?
adrianhel 7y ago
This is amazing!
donpark 7y ago
I think SK government will not see problems in migration to Linux as blockers but as a major opportunity to help its IT businesses grow, particularly in the e-gov market. Net result: more choice and more business for all.
kazinator 7y ago
"Let's switch to something developed under the free world's values that we violently repress here, and whose originators we would likely have jailed had they started their projects here."
- wongmjane 7y ago
  I think we are talking about South Korean government, not North Korea...
- 0xb100db1ade 7y ago
  Did you mean to say that about North Korea, not South Korea?
  - kazinator 7y ago
    Sorry, yes. There is a parallel story about that, actually.
Causality1 7y ago
I'm paranoid enough of the numerous backdoors Microsoft has into my system as a home user. I can't imagine actually having life-threatening secrets on a Windows box, which is a reality for most of the governments of the world.
skc 7y ago
I really don't get all the conspiracy theories being thrown around about Microsoft now having to send over some suits to rescue the situation. Doesn't really jibe with the moves they have been making lately that seem to show that if anything, Microsoft is de-prioritising the Windows business. They are happy for you to move off Windows provided you still use some of their cloud offerings. There's a reason Office 365 is doing as well as it is.
jothezero 7y ago
Most of governments are locked-in windows and will for a while.
stockkid 7y ago
I'm surprised to see such a move from the South Korean government. The reason is that, back when I lived there a while ago, most of the government resources required Windows machines to access. Specifically, we needed ActiveX and Internet Explorer for many stuff. Such dependence on Microsoft technology is not only found in government but also in corporations. Recently I needed to access my bank account there and the bank required me to install some anti-virus software that only runs on Windows. I don't know how things are now in general, but I welcome this change.
gkanai 7y ago
I was the blogger who first wrote (in English) about South Korea's reliance on Active X controls and Internet Explorer. That was more than a decade ago.
excalibur 7y ago
> The transition to Linux OS and the purchase of new PCs are expected to cost the government about 780 billion won ($655 million), the ministry said. You're doing it wrong. The government should have a robust hierarchy of support staff in place. While the transition will consume a significant amount of their time and therefore cost money, it's money that you were spending anyway, and was already budgeted. New PCs are not required for Linux, except in cases where their existing hardware is damaged or insufficient, which again should already be in the budget.
xvilka 7y ago
Well, even Russia managed to switch some governmental bodies to Linux. It is only a matter of political will. UK has Collabora who has contract to remove some issues in LibreOffice. South Korea can do just the same if required.
bnjakait1 7y ago
Of course they don't have any other questions since Linux is now stable like never before
bnjakait1 7y ago
What of Microsoft news?
johnyoon 7y ago
I did some search and found that the distros that Korean government is considering are: Gooroom OS, which is being developed by Hancom since 2015 but were never released, Ubuntu, and HarmoniKR based on LinuxMint. They are considering web-based office suite so LibreOffice is may not be among consideration. There are options such as PolarisOffice and Naver Office, but given that Hancom Office has a stake in the game, their cloud service HancomSpace along with Hancom Online may gain momentum. In the worst case scenario, I could see Korean government see Office 365 as a fallback. https://www.zdnet.co.kr/view/?no=20190516093822 https://www.zdnet.co.kr/view/?no=20190516093822 https://namu.wiki/w/%EA%B5%AC%EB%A6%84%20OS https://namu.wiki/w/%EA%B5%AC%EB%A6%84%20OS https://space.malangmalang.com/ https://space.malangmalang.com/ https://www.hancom.com/product/productNetfficeMain.do https://www.hancom.com/product/productNetfficeMain.do

627 points by jrepinc 7y ago

jacquesm 7y ago

Cue a concerted effort by MS salespeople to make them an offer they can't refuse. See also: Munich.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
techntoke 7y ago
Cue a concerted effort by MS salespeople to find their targets to blackmail or pay off to make the decision behind closed doors, and to spam all social media with defeatism using their AI bot farms.
macspoofing 7y ago
That's not why Munich moved back to Windows. They moved back because supporting Linux workstations for their workforce was hard and expensive. It wasn't very popular with the end-users either.
- pojntfx 7y ago
  Not true. Microsoft built a huge local branch there and as a result they've moved back into the dark abyss that is proprietary, non-free software.
  - macspoofing 7y ago
    That is the conspiracy theory that some are telling themselves: that this is THE reason why Munich moved away. AS IF! Here's something more likely: Munich was ready to move back because the project was expensive to maintain, cumbersome in practice, killed productivity and was generally unpopular with the end-users, and Microsoft's new branch was just a cherry on top.
    - commoner 7y ago
      Microsoft made major political moves after LiMux adoption began. They relocated their German headquarters to Munich, and a new mayor (Dieter Reiter) was elected after the Microsoft employees moved to Munich. Reiter initiated the reversal from LiMux to Windows, while the previous mayor (Christian Ude) refused to do so despite in-person appeals from Steve Ballmer. You might not like this line of argument, but it's not a "conspiracy theory" since it's well-supported. It's disingenuous to completely dismiss the role of political influence on a government decision. https://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-in-munich-no-compelling-technical-reason-to-return-to-windows-says-citys-it-chief/ https://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-in-munich-no-comp...
      - klingonopera 7y ago
        "There is the allegation that you as former head of the department of economy have made a deal with Microsoft to move its headquarter to Munich and in exchange you now deliver the return to their products. Does this connection exist?" - "No, definitely not." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBRh2G29NNE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBRh2G29NNE
        commoner 7y ago
        I did not allege that Reiter "made a deal with Microsoft". My point was that Microsoft gained political clout as a result of moving its headquarters to Munich, which influenced the city's decision to switch back from LiMux to Windows.
      - macspoofing 7y ago
        >You might not like this line of argument, but it's not a "conspiracy theory" since it's well-supported. But it isn't. You just asserted it. I don't dispute the facts at hand, but you can't just link those together and assert causality when there is no evidence for it . >It's disingenuous to completely dismiss the role of political influence on a government decision. I don't know what to do with that. There is no evidence and everyone disputes the corrupt link you assert. Not only that, there is an alternative explanation: the Linux deployment wasn't popular, killed productivity, and wasn't cheap to maintain. What you're doing is the definition of FUD.
  - oblio 7y ago
    You may dislike it, but calling it a "dark abyss" is pushing it. Probably 95% of people in tech get a paycheck due to non-free software. And yes, Googlers & co., that includes you, even if the small lib you released is Open Source, the magic sauce powering Page Rank, Analytics, AdWords and such isn't.
maximus1983 7y ago
That is a flat out lie. https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/11/13/munich_committee_says_all_windows_2020 https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/11/13/munich_committee_sa... > Hübner said the city has struggled with LiMux adoption. "Users were unhappy and software essential for the public sector is mostly only available for Windows," she said. > She estimated about half of the 800 or so total programs needed don't run on Linux and "many others need a lot of effort and workarounds". > Hübner added, "in the past 15 years, much of our efforts were put into becoming independent from Microsoft," including spending "a lot of money looking for workarounds" but "those efforts eventually failed." https://www.neowin.net/news/munich-germany-realizes-that-deploying-linux-was-a-disaster-going-back-to-windows/ https://www.neowin.net/news/munich-germany-realizes-that-dep... > https://www.neowin.net/news/munich-germany-realizes-that-deploying-linux-was-a-disaster-going-back-to-windows/ https://www.neowin.net/news/munich-germany-realizes-that-dep... Looks like the open source equivalents for the software didn't deal well enough with different file formats.
- sascha_sl 7y ago
  This is not flat out wrong, it's just the officially given reason. Not the entire story. The source is in German, but EN Wikipedia sums it up nicely: "In 2018, journalistic group Investigate Europe released a video documentary via German public television network ARD, wherein it is claimed that the majority of city workers were satisfied with the operating system, with council members insinuating that the reversal was a personally motivated decision by lord mayor Dieter Reiter. Reiter denied that he had initiated the reversal in gratitude for Microsoft moving its German headquarters from Unterschleißheim back to Munich." This is also worth a read: https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2017/02/14/statement-by-the-document-foundation-about-the-upcoming-discussion-at-the-city-of-munich-to-step-back-to-windows-and-ms-office/ https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2017/02/14/statemen... In short, it _was_ MSFT lobby grease.
  - maximus1983 7y ago
    So you link a biased source against Microsoft to prove that Microsoft were conspiring with the council. They're reason to exist is to make Microsoft look bad.

ducttape12 7y ago

I remember hearing years ago IE usage was crazy high in South Korea because they had laws in place requiring all online banking customers to install an ActiveX control. If that's true... Then they've come pretty far.

bootlooped 7y ago
Even after ActiveX was on the way out they still had some pretty wacky practices. Korean websites requiring users to install proprietary security software was not uncommon.
- kijin 7y ago
  > Korean websites requiring users to install proprietary security software was not uncommon. It still is common. They just replaced ActiveX plugins with native Windows apps because ActiveX has a bad rep. It's still Windows through and through, and most of those "security" apps are borderline spyware. I have to use Korean banks and government websites daily for business, and I keep them safely segregated inside a VM.
  - darkhorn 7y ago
    Easy; run Windows XP, IE, ActiveX in a virtual machine. Use Linux as your main OS.
    - kijin 7y ago
      Windows 7 with IE11 currently seems to be the sweet spot. Even in Korea, using XP has been frowned upon for a few years now :)
      - hocuspocus 7y ago
        Yup, and the free Win7+IE11 VM from Microsoft doesn't really expire (you can rearm the license indefinitely).
7y ago

tooltalk 7y ago

> ... as Microsoft’s free technical support for Windows 7 expires in January 2020. they are still on Windows 7? ouch!!!

cvnyw 7y ago
Lighter and easier to manage than 10... why not?
- chris_wot 7y ago
  Can't run Windows 7 on Skylake and greater chipsets.
  - wswkb 7y ago
    Don't know what makes you think those computers are running a chipset that was launched late in 2015.
  - klingonopera 7y ago
    Intel i5 6600K on a Z170 with Windows 7 reporting in, that statement is definitely not true. Installing is not straightforward though, you have to load drivers into the installation environment if you're using M.2 or USB 3.x. IMHO the effort I need to learn that causes me far less frustration than having to use Windows 10. My total experience (helping colleagues/friends with their Win 10 systems) is probably less than 60 minutes in total, but one look at that start menu with actual internet-loaded ads (!) was enough to dissuade me from ever installing that OS on any of my systems. If they're greedy enough to blatantly do that, who knows what kinds of other dark patterns lurk within that OS...
    - chris_wot 7y ago
      Oops, I got the chipset wrong. It's Kaby Lake that I was thinking of. Apologies.
dictum 7y ago
Maybe I got older and life lost some color, but the difference between Windows 10 and Windows 7 doesn't feel like the difference between 7 and XP. Seems like most of the action (outside gaming and Office power users) has moved to browsers and browser wrappers.

babakandishmand 7y ago

Curious if they'd roll out their own distro.

thewhitetulip 7y ago
That will be too much work. Why not use well maintained existing distros?
- zzzcpan 7y ago
  Why would that be too much work? I expect total cost of ownership for the government distro to be way less, than using those "well maintained" ones.
  - thewhitetulip 7y ago
    If I understand correctly, we are talking about taking a well maintained distro and continuously updating it? Why? If the idea is to save money why would the govt build its own version? And I don't mean a Korean theme, I mean a full version Building a one time theme or anything of that sort is okay, I think. But it'll be costly to maintain a distro
  - sonnyblarney 7y ago
    Why would a government maintain their own distro in the first place? Other than some minor modifications, what is it about S. Korea gov. officials that's fundamentally different from Office workers that they need specific Linux functionality? Surely at the level of app/drivers or something, but probably not core functionality. The whole point of the process was to save money, and one of the ways they can do that is by standardization. Any deviation for de-facto standards can be costly in many ways, especially in terms of risk.
    - zzzcpan 7y ago
      Fundamentally different are at least timeframes and security. Think decades of operations and advanced persistent threats.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

thewhitetulip 7y ago

I hope that Indian govt switches to Linux

_emacsomancer_ 7y ago
I think the way forward here is getting more Linux support at lower levels, including the state-level. There has been some progress on this front, especially in Kerala, and also in Assam: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adoption_of_free_and_open-source_software_by_public_institutions#India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adoption_of_free_and_open-sour...
- thewhitetulip 7y ago
  Recently state govts of Telangana and Gujarat have shifted to Linux As have many colleges What I was talking is the central govt and all govt undertakings. It'll be huge. Windows and IE6 is standard and they are bad, they hang a lot
gcells 7y ago
Boss Linux developed by CDAC comes to mind https://www.bosslinux.in/ https://www.bosslinux.in/ Although the penetration is quite low. The project looked stalled few years back, seems like they are back again. Last release is dated 28.8.2018

Yeri 7y ago

I used to support our office in S. Korea. It's true they depend super heavily on ActiveX and other weird applets/software that runs only on Windows and/or IE. A lot of the communication with the government (yearly tax submission) as well as banking software would not run on our Linux or OSX devices, and so we had these 'loaner' windows 'tax machines' that got reimaged every few days that people could use to do their business. They also have their own Office-like suite by Hancon[1], that is a pain to support and only runs on Windows. There were attempts to have gDrive to be able to read the files but afaik that never worked out. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hancom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hancom

kijin 7y ago
The word processor by Hancom is actually pretty nice, especially for composing Korean-only and mixed Korean-and-English documents. I've been using it since before I even knew that MS Word existed, and I still prefer it to MS Word for anything that contains CJK characters. The proprietary file format is a PITA, though. Hancom did release a Linux version of their office suite a few years ago, and regularly updates the OSX version. Moreover, Hancom has been dabbling in Linux for over 20 years. They even maintained their own Red Hat-based distro at some point. They also support OpenDocument and OOXML fairly well. In short, Hancom has been hedging their bets very thoroughly. So if the government adopts Linux by any chance, it won't be difficult for them to go fully cross-platform and keep their lucrative government contracts.
- a-afterglow 7y ago
  Have you been using it since its first release? I find it surprising you hadn't heard about MS Office if you were already using Hancom.
  - kijin 7y ago
    Yeah, I've used H.ngeul since 1990 -- version 1.2 I think. MS Word already existed, of course, but I didn't hear about it nor actually get to use it until a few years later. I was a kid and didn't have internet back then, so news was slow :p

NortySpock 7y ago

As I recall, this sort of public statement is used as a lever to squeeze some discounts out of Microsoft's Enterprise Sales team before the government "decides" to stay with Windows.

AsyncAwait 7y ago
As a Linux aficionado, I have to agree with you, unfortunately. I've seen this too many times over the years not to be cynical about it.
- jaabe 7y ago
  As someone who likes Linux and genuinely believe that software that was paid for by the public should be open source, I just have to ask you why that is. I work in a Danish municipality with 100.000 citizens. We operate more than 300 IT systems, some of these are one of a kind systems that have no alternatives and some of those only run on Windows. We also have 8000 employees, a lot of them couldn’t tell you if the smartphone they use each day is an android or an iPhone. They know windows and they know office, switching them to pages and macOS would be almost impossible, Linux and libre office is out of the question. We have an IT staff of skilled people who were willing to skip pay for ideology they are all certified Microsoft and have little other education. They could all easily leave for other positions in the Microsoft infrastructure. It would cost around a million to replace just one of them. We could easily switch our tech to Linux, we would need to build a lot of replacement software but that could be done in a reasonably manner, but moving the business side to Linux would be the most expensive thing we ever did. Which is why I’m a skeptic of something I believe should happen. We pay a tech tax to Microsoft, by we can’t stop. It’s just not doable.
  - detaro 7y ago
    partial counter-point: many large companies, universities, schools etc have switched to things like Google Docs. Most use of office software is simple enough that people can transfer (afaik a big part in the Munich migration was making sure all the templates used for common documents where ported properly and people could easily access to). Specialist software is a big problem of course, likely leading to a parallel Windows infrastructure of some kind, either dedicated Windows workstations for the workers that need it or a terminal-server setup of some kind - I know companies that used the latter to keep Windows XP applications available in an isolated environment too. But it's all a bespoke process.

robertAngst 7y ago

What does 'Linux OS' mean? Various Linux desktop distros? If so, have mercy on anyone who will be using Ubuntu Desktop for the first time. I hope they aren't afraid of using Terminal, because the internet will shout them down for wanting a GUI solution. Love Ubuntu server, but could never get into linux desktop.

jimmaswell 7y ago
The elitism can be absurd. Sometimes I wonder if it's stockholm syndrome. "You want to configure things with a GUI with discoverability? Not read a dissertation-length man page and edit config files whose syntax changes between versions so you can't even rely on google results? Go back to winbl0ws"
- swiley 7y ago
  Most of the config files are (IMHO) much more discoverable than most GUIs, usually the default config has the default settings commented out along with a block of comments explaining them. A lot of GUI apps I've used have really crappy settings dialogs that don't explain things well and aren't searchable. But it's really the individual app, both can be done nicely or poorly, config files are often easier to implement and copy between machines and app versions (at least that's the feeling I've gotten.) And at least with config files there's something to google. GUIs change even more often (there are even fewer reasons to keep them stable than config file syntax.) Also you're not really supposed to read through the entire man page for an app that you only touch once or twice, you're supposed to just search for what you need and leave. My personal opinion is that GUIs are often less user friendly, they just look friendlier. GUIs make it easier to sell software, not to use it. Free software isn't being sold and that's why it tends to not have a GUI.
- pushpop 7y ago
  I have a theory on why guides in Linux are predominantly text based and it has nothing to do with elitism. I think it’s a mixture of two factors: 1. From the perspective of the writer, it’s much easier to describe instructions via text when publishing those instructions via a predominately text-based medium such as web sites. The alternative is taking screenshots and editing those images to highlight relevant widgets. This is more time consuming and not ever site offers an easy way to upload those images (meaning you’re then sometimes having to manually upload them) nor even embed them into the discussion (eg HN). And on top of that, you still need some text to accompany the images anyway. So you might as well go with a text driven solution. And if you’re having to describe a UI in text, it’s obviously going to be easier to do so with a text based UI than a graphical UI. This is a problem I’ve personally experienced as someone who used to write a lot of documentation for graphical UIs. It can be annoying and remember that a lot of time, people providing guides are those volunteering their time. So naturally people will opt for a lazier approach. 2. The other major factor for why I think CLI instructions are so common even on desktop Linux is because there isn’t a single agreed standard desktop environment. Not even a standard GUI toolkit, let alone DE. Arguments about whether this choice / fragmentation is a net good or bad thing aside; it makes much more sense to offer a guide that is going to be more universal (as the CLI on Linux tends to be - notwithstanding some district-specific file system hierarchies). Where as a guide with images will not only be very specific to using that unique management tool but would also be subject to any changes to the UI of that tool even if the underlying configuration files haven’t changed. So with CLI examples you end up with a guide that is not only more universal but also has greater longevity. The longevity point is something that can frustrate less technically capable Windows users who are left confused each time Microsoft decide to redesign their Control Panel applets (et al) and Linux isn’t any less subject to UI changes in its graphical frontends either. So it does make some sense to provide instructions to configuring things directly in the backend - even if it seems counterintuitive to a desktop user. Ultimately though, I don’t see anyone who uses Linux being rude about those who use GUIs. At worst they might recommend using the CLI if someone has tried configuring something from a GUI and found themselves getting stuck because options aren’t getting applied in a way that was being expected. However there are examples when the reverse is also true. For example on HN a few weeks ago some CLI users moaning about the complexity of kemu was repeatedly (and rightfully) recommended to use a frontend instead.

tpae 7y ago

Does this mean their shitty Active X plugins will be fazed out?

antmanler 7y ago

Then run a full linux kernel upon WSL2...

techntoke 7y ago
WSL2 isn't out yet, and WSL sucked so much that I imagine WSL 2 won't be much better.
- als0 7y ago
  > WSL sucked so much that I imagine WSL 2 won't be much better Why does it suck? Is it an issue of compatibility or performance? At least WSL2 will fix the former.
  - techntoke 7y ago
    Again, you are talking about something that isn't even released yet. It sucks because the Linux distros available for it are now outdated, it utilizes a specific outdated kernel, it is extremely slow.. the file system is about 20x slower doing most file-system related tasks. Copy/paste doesn't work well without XLaunch (and then stills sucks). There was never a good terminal for it, and the new one doesn't address if it will provide mouse support for things like Vim, it didn't support Docker. There are many more nuances, but that is just a few. Let's not forget though that Windows package management is the worst out of all the operating systems, so even if you have WSL, you are still going to be suck maintaining a crappy OS using terrible bloated installers that leave files everywhere and a crappy package manager like Chocolatey that is falling further behind repos like AUR and Arch.
    - Dylan16807 7y ago
      > the Linux distros available for it are now outdated That's what apt-get is for. > it utilizes a specific outdated kernel Lots of distros do that. > it is extremely slow.. the file system is about 20x slower doing most file-system related tasks That's a windows problem, not a WSL problem. > There was never a good terminal for it Don't you have the choice of almost all existing windows and linux terminals? How can none of those be good? And normal windows installers have nothing to do with it. The lack of docker support is important, but let's not ignore that they're in the middle of fixing it.

Grollicus 7y ago

Hope that works as well for them as the switch to Linux worked for Munich

beefhash 7y ago
Except that Munich switched back[1]. [1] https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/11/13/munich_committee_says_all_windows_2020/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/11/13/munich_committee_sa...
- Grollicus 7y ago
  After Microsoft moved their german headquaters to Munich, which of course had nothing to do with their decision to switch back.
  - klingonopera 7y ago
    A two-year-old interview with Munich's mayor on that issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBRh2G29NNE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBRh2G29NNE
    - leadingthenet 7y ago
      Difficult not to agree with the view that some corruption took place there. Dude seems shady and technically illiterate.
- LateRuin 7y ago
  Wooosh

seddin 7y ago

They are going to be amazed by how much they wasted by using Windows.

conrmahr 7y ago

maybe they should use Kali?

conrmahr 7y ago
tough crowd, just a joke.

AFascistWorld 7y ago

China has this "original" OS called Redflag Linux, it's basically repackaged Linux to rake in government money, sells to military for some 500 usd per pc, the kickback must be big.

chillacy 7y ago
And yet nothing is as common as pirated windows. Even one of the displays in an airport crashed and there was a bsod
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  It might not have been pirated. Microsoft has done well with getting the government/SOEs to actually by windows over the last decade, probably at a significant discount but whatever. Piracy just isn’t mostly worth it anymore.
- skrebbel 7y ago
  How does that make it pirated? (It's super common for information displays everywhere to run Windows)

thiago_fm 7y ago

I doubt this will work out. They also tried that in many countries, they all go back to using Windows. I hate Windows, but I can envision how much money AND time it's gonna cost them to move out, and I'm sure that they will either run out of money before they do the transition, or machines would have already dominated the earth before they are done with this "transition"l I would believe it much more if they said that they will try to use more Linux, try to mix them up, or create APIs for everything etc. Nowadays it's so easy to create services and use LDAP or whatever thing you want with whatever programming language or service. You can host it on Linux and start changing some computers and systems to Linux. But "switch from X to Y" seems a terrible idea. Even as a personal computer user, for me, it's impossible to "switch". Imagine for a government. It's a hilarious statement, one of those that politicians do say, but they have no fucking clue of what they are saying.

jcelerier 7y ago
> They also tried that in many countries, they all go back to using Windows. uhh... no, here in France a lot of public infrastructure runs on linux.
- klingonopera 7y ago
  The list of LibreOffice users hasn't grown, but hasn't shrunk either[0]. Kudos to the French for so far being the biggest Western-state to implement FOSS. Apart from the obvious benefit of lower cost, security and personal individualization are further benefits. No matter what the politicians or business will tell you: Any government running Windows on their systems is basically broadcasting their data straight into US secret services. There's nothing stopping them from doing that. Who would prosecute them? Would US law enforcement have motivation to do that? And when it comes to individualization: Any open standard that allows any other third party to develop products with will (if left to its own means) always win out against proprietary solutions, since you can pitch all the third parties against each other to compete for the lowest bid. But since it's not about getting cost-effective IT, the governments don't appear too concerned of the US knowing all their secrets and Microsoft is definitely more capable of pampering politicians than 3rd party Linux developers could, absurd requirements dot every government contract to bar said Linux developers and leave Microsoft as the only "viable" choice. [0]: https://www.libreoffice.org/discover/who-uses-libreoffice/ https://www.libreoffice.org/discover/who-uses-libreoffice/

dbmueller 7y ago

Recently there was a votation in my town, to decide whether to accept a budget for renewing the schools IT infrasture. It included office365 accounts and new computers and tablets (presumably ipads) I wonder how different it would be were they using an OSS stack. Any stories?

edtechstrats 7y ago
Best example I am aware of is from Penn Manor SD in PA, but others exist. [1] https://opensource.com/education/14/9/interview-charlie-reisinger-penn-manor https://opensource.com/education/14/9/interview-charlie-reis... [2] https://lancasteronline.com/opinion/editorials/penn-manor-s-student-computer-program-offers-a-lesson-to/article_ff2da7ce-084d-11e7-a800-e3b2c204e782.html https://lancasteronline.com/opinion/editorials/penn-manor-s-... [3] https://technology.pennmanor.net/open-source-in-school/ https://technology.pennmanor.net/open-source-in-school/

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

openfuture 7y ago

Hurray!

temptemptemp111 7y ago

They should author KBSD (KoreanBSD)! We need more OS competiton.

maskiii 7y ago

The dream of a free OS. I've heard something like this in the south-Indian state of Kerala as well.

slyu 7y ago

I wonder if this is something that can be accomplshied at a scale, particually thinking in the context of maintaining upgrade readiness and update compliance for all the devices.

techntoke 7y ago
Absolutely, it is very easy to automate too. Arch has a great package manager BTW.

oregontechninja 7y ago

At this rate, it really feels like the next version of Windows will be derived from some Unix os. Windows 8 and onwards has been an unmitigated IT disaster. Windows Server is meh. I once ran Ubuntu mate with a windows theme on a computer terminal in a computer lab, and everybody clamored to use it since it was faster, better at printing, and never bluescreened. (That particular model was forced into "obselecence" by windows 10). Just throw a custom graphical shell over a hardened Unix os, then use Valve's proton project for application comparability. You could be so rich using other people's work Microsoft.

techntoke 7y ago
Agreed, yet their goal is to build their own crappy version so that people think Linux sucks, when in reality it is still MS. I blame their culture though. No one who appreciates quality open source wants to work there.
- 0815test 7y ago
  > Agreed, yet their goal is to build their own crappy version so that people think Linux sucks, when in reality it is still MS. Can't do it, Google owns that business model. I mean, they managed to do that twice? Must have taken them some serious effort!
  - techntoke 7y ago
    Not really, Microsoft has a lot of enterprise customers and when their first user experience to Linux is WSL they are immediately turned off and unable to even take it seriously. I can at least take Android and ChromeOS serious enough to see it being viable for most desktop users and small businesses. Android, along with G Suite, is great for mobile enterprise management.
    - hobs 7y ago
      Then why did Microsoft just recently patch it and make it better? (WSL)

gchamonlive 7y ago

What I really don't understand is why commercial stations (like burger king's, ice cream stands etc...) uses windows when all those computers do is show either videos or static images

maximus1983 7y ago
It will be either one of these or a combination of these. * Windows has been approved by management to be the only OS allowed on the computer network * The software for showing the static images / videos and whatever manages it will have been written on Windows or even DOS * The manufacturer of said machines whoever wrote their software was Windows Developer and it is cheaper just to ship a copy of Windows Embedded then to rewrite the software , QA and integrate it. I have a piece of software that I get small support contracts for. I tell clients it is Windows only. There is nothing stopping me from deploying to Linux or even one of the BSDs (I think). I just can't be bothered to deal with differences in distros, going through a QA process etc when it won't really get me many more sales.
klingonopera 7y ago
I'm guessing here: The guys installing those arguably very simple IT-systems mostly couldn't bother with Linux. Add to that, (at least here in Germany) BK is a franchise that sells licenses to franchise operators, so I doubt they have strict requirements on the actual IT setup, just the pictures they need to display. So you have very normal, run-off-the-mill managers and IT services, the former unable to grasp that Windows 10 with constant updates and fuck-ups will constantly require the services of the IT guys, and the latter naturally profiting of that. The increased margin of not using Windows wouldn't be enough to compensate that, and an increased price for a Linux package is something very difficult to convince those managers of. And then also IT-people well versed in Linux usually have clients who pay substantially more than simply outfitting non-IT businesses with IT-equipment.
arjunbajaj 7y ago
I've seen Burger King use Linux on their displays in India...
gridlockd 7y ago

superos 7y ago

I switched 20 years ago. What took them so long?

WilliamEdward 7y ago
uh you're just 1 person?

adrianhel 7y ago

This is amazing!

donpark 7y ago

I think SK government will not see problems in migration to Linux as blockers but as a major opportunity to help its IT businesses grow, particularly in the e-gov market. Net result: more choice and more business for all.

kazinator 7y ago

"Let's switch to something developed under the free world's values that we violently repress here, and whose originators we would likely have jailed had they started their projects here."

wongmjane 7y ago
I think we are talking about South Korean government, not North Korea...
0xb100db1ade 7y ago
Did you mean to say that about North Korea, not South Korea?
- kazinator 7y ago
  Sorry, yes. There is a parallel story about that, actually.

Causality1 7y ago

I'm paranoid enough of the numerous backdoors Microsoft has into my system as a home user. I can't imagine actually having life-threatening secrets on a Windows box, which is a reality for most of the governments of the world.

skc 7y ago

I really don't get all the conspiracy theories being thrown around about Microsoft now having to send over some suits to rescue the situation. Doesn't really jibe with the moves they have been making lately that seem to show that if anything, Microsoft is de-prioritising the Windows business. They are happy for you to move off Windows provided you still use some of their cloud offerings. There's a reason Office 365 is doing as well as it is.

jothezero 7y ago

Most of governments are locked-in windows and will for a while.

stockkid 7y ago

I'm surprised to see such a move from the South Korean government. The reason is that, back when I lived there a while ago, most of the government resources required Windows machines to access. Specifically, we needed ActiveX and Internet Explorer for many stuff. Such dependence on Microsoft technology is not only found in government but also in corporations. Recently I needed to access my bank account there and the bank required me to install some anti-virus software that only runs on Windows. I don't know how things are now in general, but I welcome this change.

gkanai 7y ago

I was the blogger who first wrote (in English) about South Korea's reliance on Active X controls and Internet Explorer. That was more than a decade ago.

excalibur 7y ago

> The transition to Linux OS and the purchase of new PCs are expected to cost the government about 780 billion won ($655 million), the ministry said. You're doing it wrong. The government should have a robust hierarchy of support staff in place. While the transition will consume a significant amount of their time and therefore cost money, it's money that you were spending anyway, and was already budgeted. New PCs are not required for Linux, except in cases where their existing hardware is damaged or insufficient, which again should already be in the budget.

xvilka 7y ago

Well, even Russia managed to switch some governmental bodies to Linux. It is only a matter of political will. UK has Collabora who has contract to remove some issues in LibreOffice. South Korea can do just the same if required.

bnjakait1 7y ago

Of course they don't have any other questions since Linux is now stable like never before

bnjakait1 7y ago

What of Microsoft news?

johnyoon 7y ago

I did some search and found that the distros that Korean government is considering are: Gooroom OS, which is being developed by Hancom since 2015 but were never released, Ubuntu, and HarmoniKR based on LinuxMint. They are considering web-based office suite so LibreOffice is may not be among consideration. There are options such as PolarisOffice and Naver Office, but given that Hancom Office has a stake in the game, their cloud service HancomSpace along with Hancom Online may gain momentum. In the worst case scenario, I could see Korean government see Office 365 as a fallback. https://www.zdnet.co.kr/view/?no=20190516093822 https://www.zdnet.co.kr/view/?no=20190516093822 https://namu.wiki/w/%EA%B5%AC%EB%A6%84%20OS https://namu.wiki/w/%EA%B5%AC%EB%A6%84%20OS https://space.malangmalang.com/ https://space.malangmalang.com/ https://www.hancom.com/product/productNetfficeMain.do https://www.hancom.com/product/productNetfficeMain.do