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Learning a language requires immersion. That's why classes with other students are more effective than flashcards. VR has potential to really make a differenc

Learning a language requires immersion. That's why classes with other students are more effective than flashcards. VR has potential to really make a difference here. Imagine you load a VR level. It's a busy outdoor market in Taipei. In your inventory you have some cash. NPCs with AI and chat logic are around you interacting. Your goal is to buy some bread and get to the subway. You see a vendor with some bread, but don't remember the word for bread. You hear a NPC talking to the vendor and buying some bread. Now you remember. You speak the words, but the vendor doesn't understand. Your tones are off. You try again, this time the vendor smiles and says how much it costs. You give cash, take the bread, and walk to the subway. The next level, buying a subway pass... This basically already exists in RPG games. It just needs mic support so you can speak and good "game" design that's designed to help learn the language. Playing this for an hour a day would be more effective than an hour of flashcards. And also a lot fun.

duncan-donuts 7y ago
This sounds amazing. I used Duolingo for about a year to learn Swedish. I got pretty good at reading it and hearing it, but never could speak it very well. Had I decided to learn French or Spanish I’d have a lot more opportunity to talk with other people, but I picked Swedish because it seemed interesting and easy for an English native to pick up. I would totally buy a VR rig just to do this.
- dawnerd 7y ago
  Literally did the same last year with Swedish. Kind of amazing how easy it was to pick up vs French.
  - adventured 7y ago
    What kind of a time investment did it require on a day to day basis? In the last few weeks I've been eyeing Babbel and Duolingo as good options to get started learning a particular language.
    - dawnerd 7y ago
      Maybe an hour or so a day. If you're not talking with someone else the trick is to do it every single day. If I missed a day I lost a lot of momentum. Also I'd recommend looking at Memrise. Their voice seems a lot better than duolingo's at least.
esrauch 7y ago
There's no reason that needs to be in VR right?
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  Needs? No. But immersing yourself in the environment in which you’ll use the language should eventually help with cued recall.
realharo 7y ago
I remember an old game called Mean City (https://www.mobygames.com/game/mean-city-learn-english-or-die/ https://www.mobygames.com/game/mean-city-learn-english-or-di...) that tried to do something similar (minus the VR and the voice parts). There were probably others.
- hombre_fatal 7y ago
  Find a MUD in your target language. https://www.reddit.com/r/MUD/comments/bhxejm/muding_for_spanish_language_immersion/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MUD/comments/bhxejm/muding_for_span...
gibba999 7y ago
I found the article to be BS. My experience: 1) Classes with other students are just about the least effective way to learn a foreign language. You just reinforce each others' bad accents, grammar mistakes, etc. 2) Duolingo is okay for some things, but not for others. But discounting all apps after having tried one or two, though, is a lot like the famous Gates quote: "640k should be enough for anybody" (which he claims to have never said), or the nineties articles as to why no one would shop online. 3) Pimsleur is brilliant for developing basic conversational ability. It works really, really well. 4) The Pimsleur model could take you all the way to fluency, but it stops at a half-year of lessons for the most developed languages (and 2 weeks for some of the less developed ones). Developing four years of lessons at this level of quality is hard and expensive. 5) BUT: Moving on beyond Pimsleur, there is a range of tools which are passable. Things like Duolingo, Memrise, Supermemo, etc. can help build vocabulary. There are apps for watching movies for language learning (which adds subtitles, dictionaries, etc.) which can help build comprehension. Etc. Picking-and-choosing, you can get something which, while not as good as going there, is much better than classes. 6) This field is progressing super-quickly on the whole. What we have today is much better than five years ago, and we'll have much better things five years from now. I'd be surprised if apps weren't the best way to learn a language in not too long.
- coldtea 7y ago
  >1) Classes with other students are just about the least effective way to learn a foreign language. You just reinforce each others' bad accents, grammar mistakes, etc. And yet, hundreds of millions of people have learned a foreign language that way. In this corner of Europe it's de rigueur for everyone to study 2 or more foreign languages during middle and high school, and (some very rich kids with private tutors aside) everybody does it at foreign language schools with classes of 10-15 other people. It still works just fine.
- usaar333 7y ago
  > Classes with other students are just about the least effective way to learn a foreign language. Well, sure a private tutor is better, but that's a lot more expensive. Without a teacher of some sort that can provide feedback, I have no idea how I could have learned elementary Mandarin (that is produce and listen to sounds radically different from my native English). From what I've seen the ability for computers to give feedback on what you are doing wrong is far away from a trained human's. > The Pimsleur model could take you all the way to fluency, I've been looking over their website - it seems like it is just audio lessons and no tutor is provided? If that is correct, how would someone learn to correctly pronounce words in say Mandarin using this?
usaar333 7y ago
Agreed on immersion being critical. You also for languages distant from ones you know really need a teacher (which is a problem with Duolingo), at least to break into the elementary levels. > You speak the words, but the vendor doesn't understand. Your tones are off. The immersion is critical to having repetitive practice and exposure, but few adults (at least I'm not one) will get this far (that is being capable of extending knowledge via immersion) without the initial aid of a teacher. e.g. Learning to hear/speak sounds that don't exist in your native language requires both extensive instruction and feedback more detailed than just "I don't understand".
lawnchair 7y ago
I really wish this VR existed. Would be great.
- wallflower 7y ago
  This would be close to AGI.
- abecode 7y ago
  https://www.alelo.com/products-and-solutions/ https://www.alelo.com/products-and-solutions/
kostarelo 7y ago
No need for VR. busuu[1] have setup a network where users can send exercises to other members (native speakers of the language you are trying to speak) and they will correct and rate them. The network is very active, as soon as I submit my exercise, a couple of minutes later someone will have corrected it. (Premium plan though, I made a 3 months plan, hopefully it will be enough to get me on track). I would suggest everyone to give busuu a try. [1]: https://busuu.com https://busuu.com [2]: https://imgur.com/a/3PrxDBH https://imgur.com/a/3PrxDBH
hiharryhere 7y ago
There's a guy building this exact VR thing in a startup program I'm a part of. Looks incredible: http://virtualnihongo.com/ http://virtualnihongo.com/
rangerpolitic 7y ago
VR+AI will not make a significant impact. I am a former language educator, and I've been through this before... and before... and before. It follows a hype cycle. The idea is promoted. People get excited. It comes out. It fizzles. Later, educators rediscover the idea. They implement it. It has a small positive impact for small number of learners in a small number of cases. To give some examples: - Native English Speaking Teachers - English immersion villages in South Korea - English robots in South Korea and Japan - The Audio-lingual Method - Berlitz Method - Rosetta Stone Immersion Based Learning Method - MUDs, MOOs, MUSHs - MOOCs - Blended learning - Badges - Gamification - Second Life There's no reason to think VR+AI will be any different. It's simply what's hot right now.
david_ar 7y ago
I think Lingotopia was supposed to be something like this (though not VR). https://www.lingoludo.com/lingotopia/ https://www.lingoludo.com/lingotopia/
janiniha 7y ago
There is an AR translator app "Translate Now" that translates objects and text in Augmented Reality. I think it can create an immersive language learning experience for students to see translations placed in the "real world" around them. This is the appstore link: https://itunes.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1348028646?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1348028646?mt=8 I do believe that language learning can improve a lot using new technologies such as AR and VR. VR experiences as you described above can really impact how students aquire new skills.

duncan-donuts 7y ago

This sounds amazing. I used Duolingo for about a year to learn Swedish. I got pretty good at reading it and hearing it, but never could speak it very well. Had I decided to learn French or Spanish I’d have a lot more opportunity to talk with other people, but I picked Swedish because it seemed interesting and easy for an English native to pick up. I would totally buy a VR rig just to do this.

dawnerd 7y ago
Literally did the same last year with Swedish. Kind of amazing how easy it was to pick up vs French.
- adventured 7y ago
  What kind of a time investment did it require on a day to day basis? In the last few weeks I've been eyeing Babbel and Duolingo as good options to get started learning a particular language.
  - dawnerd 7y ago
    Maybe an hour or so a day. If you're not talking with someone else the trick is to do it every single day. If I missed a day I lost a lot of momentum. Also I'd recommend looking at Memrise. Their voice seems a lot better than duolingo's at least.

esrauch 7y ago

There's no reason that needs to be in VR right?

Scoundreller 7y ago
Needs? No. But immersing yourself in the environment in which you’ll use the language should eventually help with cued recall.

realharo 7y ago

I remember an old game called Mean City (https://www.mobygames.com/game/mean-city-learn-english-or-die/ https://www.mobygames.com/game/mean-city-learn-english-or-di...) that tried to do something similar (minus the VR and the voice parts). There were probably others.

hombre_fatal 7y ago
Find a MUD in your target language. https://www.reddit.com/r/MUD/comments/bhxejm/muding_for_spanish_language_immersion/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MUD/comments/bhxejm/muding_for_span...

gibba999 7y ago

I found the article to be BS. My experience: 1) Classes with other students are just about the least effective way to learn a foreign language. You just reinforce each others' bad accents, grammar mistakes, etc. 2) Duolingo is okay for some things, but not for others. But discounting all apps after having tried one or two, though, is a lot like the famous Gates quote: "640k should be enough for anybody" (which he claims to have never said), or the nineties articles as to why no one would shop online. 3) Pimsleur is brilliant for developing basic conversational ability. It works really, really well. 4) The Pimsleur model could take you all the way to fluency, but it stops at a half-year of lessons for the most developed languages (and 2 weeks for some of the less developed ones). Developing four years of lessons at this level of quality is hard and expensive. 5) BUT: Moving on beyond Pimsleur, there is a range of tools which are passable. Things like Duolingo, Memrise, Supermemo, etc. can help build vocabulary. There are apps for watching movies for language learning (which adds subtitles, dictionaries, etc.) which can help build comprehension. Etc. Picking-and-choosing, you can get something which, while not as good as going there, is much better than classes. 6) This field is progressing super-quickly on the whole. What we have today is much better than five years ago, and we'll have much better things five years from now. I'd be surprised if apps weren't the best way to learn a language in not too long.

coldtea 7y ago
>1) Classes with other students are just about the least effective way to learn a foreign language. You just reinforce each others' bad accents, grammar mistakes, etc. And yet, hundreds of millions of people have learned a foreign language that way. In this corner of Europe it's de rigueur for everyone to study 2 or more foreign languages during middle and high school, and (some very rich kids with private tutors aside) everybody does it at foreign language schools with classes of 10-15 other people. It still works just fine.
usaar333 7y ago
> Classes with other students are just about the least effective way to learn a foreign language. Well, sure a private tutor is better, but that's a lot more expensive. Without a teacher of some sort that can provide feedback, I have no idea how I could have learned elementary Mandarin (that is produce and listen to sounds radically different from my native English). From what I've seen the ability for computers to give feedback on what you are doing wrong is far away from a trained human's. > The Pimsleur model could take you all the way to fluency, I've been looking over their website - it seems like it is just audio lessons and no tutor is provided? If that is correct, how would someone learn to correctly pronounce words in say Mandarin using this?

usaar333 7y ago

Agreed on immersion being critical. You also for languages distant from ones you know really need a teacher (which is a problem with Duolingo), at least to break into the elementary levels. > You speak the words, but the vendor doesn't understand. Your tones are off. The immersion is critical to having repetitive practice and exposure, but few adults (at least I'm not one) will get this far (that is being capable of extending knowledge via immersion) without the initial aid of a teacher. e.g. Learning to hear/speak sounds that don't exist in your native language requires both extensive instruction and feedback more detailed than just "I don't understand".

lawnchair 7y ago

I really wish this VR existed. Would be great.

wallflower 7y ago
This would be close to AGI.
abecode 7y ago
https://www.alelo.com/products-and-solutions/ https://www.alelo.com/products-and-solutions/

kostarelo 7y ago

No need for VR. busuu[1] have setup a network where users can send exercises to other members (native speakers of the language you are trying to speak) and they will correct and rate them. The network is very active, as soon as I submit my exercise, a couple of minutes later someone will have corrected it. (Premium plan though, I made a 3 months plan, hopefully it will be enough to get me on track). I would suggest everyone to give busuu a try. [1]: https://busuu.com https://busuu.com [2]: https://imgur.com/a/3PrxDBH https://imgur.com/a/3PrxDBH

hiharryhere 7y ago

There's a guy building this exact VR thing in a startup program I'm a part of. Looks incredible: http://virtualnihongo.com/ http://virtualnihongo.com/

rangerpolitic 7y ago

VR+AI will not make a significant impact. I am a former language educator, and I've been through this before... and before... and before. It follows a hype cycle. The idea is promoted. People get excited. It comes out. It fizzles. Later, educators rediscover the idea. They implement it. It has a small positive impact for small number of learners in a small number of cases. To give some examples: - Native English Speaking Teachers - English immersion villages in South Korea - English robots in South Korea and Japan - The Audio-lingual Method - Berlitz Method - Rosetta Stone Immersion Based Learning Method - MUDs, MOOs, MUSHs - MOOCs - Blended learning - Badges - Gamification - Second Life There's no reason to think VR+AI will be any different. It's simply what's hot right now.

david_ar 7y ago

I think Lingotopia was supposed to be something like this (though not VR). https://www.lingoludo.com/lingotopia/ https://www.lingoludo.com/lingotopia/

janiniha 7y ago

There is an AR translator app "Translate Now" that translates objects and text in Augmented Reality. I think it can create an immersive language learning experience for students to see translations placed in the "real world" around them. This is the appstore link: https://itunes.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1348028646?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1348028646?mt=8 I do believe that language learning can improve a lot using new technologies such as AR and VR. VR experiences as you described above can really impact how students aquire new skills.