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Forget about the hacking. U.S. business walked into China and handed over all of their technology and Intellectual Property, just to have it used against them

Forget about the hacking. U.S. business walked into China and handed over all of their technology and Intellectual Property, just to have it used against them by the Chinese government. China has only resorted to hacking lately in order to get more technology and IP.

solotronics 8y ago
They figured out if you just pay the decision makers some money they will sell everyone out. See congress for examples.
- hueving 8y ago
  Your comment is so flippant it's useless. Can you explain how China has bribed our politicians?
  - occupodd 8y ago
    American politicians work for money, they don't work for the benefit of their people so China just paid them off.
  - kuzehanka 8y ago
    How can you not be aware of the blatant bribery going on across the globe? https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-08/chinese-billionaire-huang-xiangmo-wants-political-donations-back/10794726 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-08/chinese-billionaire-h... https://www.afr.com/news/world/asia/chinese-aid-funded-1-million-bribe-to-former-png-leader-somare-20180603-h10we3 https://www.afr.com/news/world/asia/chinese-aid-funded-1-mil... https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-22/chau-chak-wing-un-bribe-scandal/9788926 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-22/chau-chak-wing-un-bri...
- luckylion 8y ago
  No. They figured if you present the decision makers with a way to massively increase their profits, they would happily trade long term advantages for short term gains.
empath75 8y ago
I fee like it’s sort of turnabout is fair play given how much technology the colonial powers stole from China.
- okthen87 8y ago
  I am unable to identify any technology which was stolen by any colonial power from China. Nuclear reactors? Machine guns? Bombs? Steam engines? Cannons? Gunpowder "Theft" dates back to the 14th century. I think everyone will agree that this is realllllly stretching it.
  - est31 8y ago
    Paper money was invented by the Chinese first, but AFAIK historians have consensus that when the Italians adopted paper money later on, they had the idea independently from the Chinese. The secret of porcelain making was guarded well by the Chinese, eventually Saxons (or the British, it's disputed who was first) figured it out without their help.
  - Leary 8y ago
    Bombs and Cannons were both Chinese inventions.
    - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
      Patents expire in under 20 years, and on apply in the country of issue, I think we're safe in terms of international treaty obligations. China signed up to the Berne Convention of 1886 on copyright in 1992, three years after USA implemented it. Berne gives a minimum term of 50 years (loosely speaking) and covers all signatory countries. Perhaps they shouldn't have signed, or sought to reduce the copyright term?
  - esalman 8y ago
    Not exactly technology theft, but one example which comes to my mind is illegal clinical drug trial on population in developing countries like China and India. It still benefits Western/colonial powers (drug companies). Not that it makes the hacking ethical but still somewhat 'fair'.
blub 8y ago
Forget about industrial espionage. They're now buying the loyalty of other countries, turning them into vassal states. EU countries aren't safe either, see Greece and Italy.
- remarkEon 8y ago
  Interesting thought. Might partially explain why Germany balked at the US request for banning Huwei phones from 5G. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/03/21/future-of-5g-us-allies-defy-washingtons-please-to-ban-huawei.html https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/03/21/future-of-5g-us-allies-d...
  - Stranger43 8y ago
    One of the things completely written out of the us press record of state hacking is that way before the US was concerned about china Germany made credible accusations against the NSA for conducting industrial espionage in Germany. And when you then remember the project Gladio revelations of the early 90ies/late 80ies and the fact that the last of America's house trained nazi's(the Gehlen organization) would have retired from west Germany influence and you get the idea that the modern German intelligence services consider some parts of the US intelligence network to have become "captured" by non-democratic interests, something the french realized doing the campaign by the OAS against DeGaule in the 60ies when DeGaule suspected that the CIA was not exactly his ally in trying to stamp out right wing coup mongers from inside the french army. And while all of this have been published by mainstream academics and journalists it's completely left out of any narrative about America's place in the world put forward by the "mainstream"(as in approved by the establishment) American press today when discussing America's place in a post cold war mercantilist conflict against countries that are not taking orders from Washington, nor buying more from the US then they sell to the US. The problem here is of cause if you consider American authorities to be captured by an mercantilist elite waging an commercial conflict on everyone else the way America accuse the Chinese of doing then the obvious thing is to ban American and Chinese tech from your networks as neither can be considered reliable partners and to be honest an better argument can be made that America with it's rising domestic problem and declining economy is the party more likely to pull the trigger and cause problems for the European economy by utilizing backdoors for harm, then for China doing the same from a position of economic growth.
TaylorAlexander 8y ago
And I think that’s a good thing. Intellectual Property is harmful to most and only benefits a few. If we abandoned the notion we’d be better off.
- unityByFreedom 8y ago
  What would be my incentive for fixing something if I earn no money from it? From big companies to the lone worker, if IP is not a thing, I don't see how we can evolve technology. I agree with the idea of not patenting software, since that is already covered by copyright, and patents were never intended to cover algorithms, however, discarding IP altogether seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
  - sarcasmOrTears 8y ago
    Even if something is allowed to be done by everybody it doesn't mean it can be done by everybody. Just look at programming. Lack of ip(patents) shifts the power from those with patents+lawyers to those with skills (workers). Innovators, even when they are a group, are always okay because they have the skills to perform.
    - est31 8y ago
      Copyright had been created in the first place so that people with printing presses couldn't just copy popular stuff to get a chunk of the market for some work without compensating the creator. Lack of IP doesn't shift the power to innovators, it shifts it to the people with printing presses, with large manufacturing plants that can scale, apple music, etc etc. IP is the very basis for compensation of innovators.
      - Drakim 8y ago
        The issue is that the reach of IP is so incredibly wide. It makes sense that if you make a comic book about a superhero named Jumpman, printing presses shouldn't be able to just 1:1 copy your product and sell it. They also shoudln't be able to use your Jumpman character in their own works. But we have moved so far that you can copyright generic things like the very concept of a comic book. Or having a HTML image that's also a link. Or having round corners on a mobile device. The only reason we have anything public at all is because most of these inventions happened before the dawn of oppressive IP laws.

solotronics 8y ago

They figured out if you just pay the decision makers some money they will sell everyone out. See congress for examples.

hueving 8y ago
Your comment is so flippant it's useless. Can you explain how China has bribed our politicians?
- occupodd 8y ago
  American politicians work for money, they don't work for the benefit of their people so China just paid them off.
- kuzehanka 8y ago
  How can you not be aware of the blatant bribery going on across the globe? https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-08/chinese-billionaire-huang-xiangmo-wants-political-donations-back/10794726 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-08/chinese-billionaire-h... https://www.afr.com/news/world/asia/chinese-aid-funded-1-million-bribe-to-former-png-leader-somare-20180603-h10we3 https://www.afr.com/news/world/asia/chinese-aid-funded-1-mil... https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-22/chau-chak-wing-un-bribe-scandal/9788926 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-22/chau-chak-wing-un-bri...
luckylion 8y ago
No. They figured if you present the decision makers with a way to massively increase their profits, they would happily trade long term advantages for short term gains.

empath75 8y ago

I fee like it’s sort of turnabout is fair play given how much technology the colonial powers stole from China.

okthen87 8y ago
I am unable to identify any technology which was stolen by any colonial power from China. Nuclear reactors? Machine guns? Bombs? Steam engines? Cannons? Gunpowder "Theft" dates back to the 14th century. I think everyone will agree that this is realllllly stretching it.
- est31 8y ago
  Paper money was invented by the Chinese first, but AFAIK historians have consensus that when the Italians adopted paper money later on, they had the idea independently from the Chinese. The secret of porcelain making was guarded well by the Chinese, eventually Saxons (or the British, it's disputed who was first) figured it out without their help.
- Leary 8y ago
  Bombs and Cannons were both Chinese inventions.
  - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
    Patents expire in under 20 years, and on apply in the country of issue, I think we're safe in terms of international treaty obligations. China signed up to the Berne Convention of 1886 on copyright in 1992, three years after USA implemented it. Berne gives a minimum term of 50 years (loosely speaking) and covers all signatory countries. Perhaps they shouldn't have signed, or sought to reduce the copyright term?
- esalman 8y ago
  Not exactly technology theft, but one example which comes to my mind is illegal clinical drug trial on population in developing countries like China and India. It still benefits Western/colonial powers (drug companies). Not that it makes the hacking ethical but still somewhat 'fair'.

blub 8y ago

Forget about industrial espionage. They're now buying the loyalty of other countries, turning them into vassal states. EU countries aren't safe either, see Greece and Italy.

remarkEon 8y ago
Interesting thought. Might partially explain why Germany balked at the US request for banning Huwei phones from 5G. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/03/21/future-of-5g-us-allies-defy-washingtons-please-to-ban-huawei.html https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/03/21/future-of-5g-us-allies-d...
- Stranger43 8y ago
  One of the things completely written out of the us press record of state hacking is that way before the US was concerned about china Germany made credible accusations against the NSA for conducting industrial espionage in Germany. And when you then remember the project Gladio revelations of the early 90ies/late 80ies and the fact that the last of America's house trained nazi's(the Gehlen organization) would have retired from west Germany influence and you get the idea that the modern German intelligence services consider some parts of the US intelligence network to have become "captured" by non-democratic interests, something the french realized doing the campaign by the OAS against DeGaule in the 60ies when DeGaule suspected that the CIA was not exactly his ally in trying to stamp out right wing coup mongers from inside the french army. And while all of this have been published by mainstream academics and journalists it's completely left out of any narrative about America's place in the world put forward by the "mainstream"(as in approved by the establishment) American press today when discussing America's place in a post cold war mercantilist conflict against countries that are not taking orders from Washington, nor buying more from the US then they sell to the US. The problem here is of cause if you consider American authorities to be captured by an mercantilist elite waging an commercial conflict on everyone else the way America accuse the Chinese of doing then the obvious thing is to ban American and Chinese tech from your networks as neither can be considered reliable partners and to be honest an better argument can be made that America with it's rising domestic problem and declining economy is the party more likely to pull the trigger and cause problems for the European economy by utilizing backdoors for harm, then for China doing the same from a position of economic growth.

TaylorAlexander 8y ago

And I think that’s a good thing. Intellectual Property is harmful to most and only benefits a few. If we abandoned the notion we’d be better off.

unityByFreedom 8y ago
What would be my incentive for fixing something if I earn no money from it? From big companies to the lone worker, if IP is not a thing, I don't see how we can evolve technology. I agree with the idea of not patenting software, since that is already covered by copyright, and patents were never intended to cover algorithms, however, discarding IP altogether seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
- sarcasmOrTears 8y ago
  Even if something is allowed to be done by everybody it doesn't mean it can be done by everybody. Just look at programming. Lack of ip(patents) shifts the power from those with patents+lawyers to those with skills (workers). Innovators, even when they are a group, are always okay because they have the skills to perform.
  - est31 8y ago
    Copyright had been created in the first place so that people with printing presses couldn't just copy popular stuff to get a chunk of the market for some work without compensating the creator. Lack of IP doesn't shift the power to innovators, it shifts it to the people with printing presses, with large manufacturing plants that can scale, apple music, etc etc. IP is the very basis for compensation of innovators.
    - Drakim 8y ago
      The issue is that the reach of IP is so incredibly wide. It makes sense that if you make a comic book about a superhero named Jumpman, printing presses shouldn't be able to just 1:1 copy your product and sell it. They also shoudln't be able to use your Jumpman character in their own works. But we have moved so far that you can copyright generic things like the very concept of a comic book. Or having a HTML image that's also a link. Or having round corners on a mobile device. The only reason we have anything public at all is because most of these inventions happened before the dawn of oppressive IP laws.