8 ms·

Its always DNS first and everyone says "lol, just change your DNS" and then they start doing real blocks. Optus in Australia did an IP level block of 4chan rece

by ndnxhs 8y ago

Its always DNS first and everyone says "lol, just change your DNS" and then they start doing real blocks. Optus in Australia did an IP level block of 4chan recently.

edwinyzh 8y ago
Sorry if this sounds stupid, but I don't know much about 4chan - why block 4chan?
- Causality1 8y ago
  New Zealand and Australia recently went on a "do something" tear regarding the mosque shooting. Sites where the video or manifesto was posted got blocked, including 4chan. And yes, you read that right, New Zealand made it a crime to distribute a specific piece of text data.
  - ShorsHammer 8y ago
    Which if you read that "specific piece of text data" is the outcome the murderer wanted. They responded exactly how he desired.
    - zapzupnz 8y ago
      The "this is what they wanted" argument is always something that rings alarm bells in my head; it sounds like the "it's a slippery slope" wolf in sheep's clothing.
      - collyw 8y ago
        You hear it a lot, but in this case he pretty much outlined it in his manifesto.
        lumberjack 8y ago
        Why are you taking his word at face value? What he really wants is to spread his propaganda. He is just trying to use reverse psychology to make you do just that.
    - simias 8y ago
      Who cares about what that guy wanted or didn't want. The question is whether we should let people distribute his manifesto for the sake of freedom of expression or if we consider it to be dangerous and worthy of a ban. The opinion of the guy who committed this heinous crime is frankly irrelevant IMO. If I was to commit some atrocities tomorrow and write a pamphlet outlining my motive and calling for others to do the same thing while adding a note saying "look, they'll try to censor this!" will you, out of principle, argue that my manifesto shouldn't be censured because that's what I would've wanted? If so, why?
      - FeepingCreature 8y ago
        Eh, if a murderous white supremacist has a strategy we should at least ask if the strategy can work before we exactly play into it.
        simias 8y ago
        You're giving a lot of credit to a meme-spouting serial killer. It's not like as if it was step 34 of his master plan, he merely got a gun and started shooting at innocent people. I'll take my chances and keep ignoring him and not giving him a platform. In my opinion his main objective was to get attention and put his nauseous ideology in the spotlight. I don't know if banning it is the right solution but frankly I won't waste my time playing devil's advocate for a mass murderer. "First they came for the terrorists and I did nothing because I wasn't a terrorist... And nothing of value was lost".
        reitanqild 8y ago
        > I'll take my chances and keep ignoring him and not giving him a platform. Hopefully society will not do that. The content might be repulsive but we are better off knowing how they think than allowing only them to know the contents. Crazy manifestos are probably just like weapons in this regard, ordinary people won't care to get one if they are illegal, bad guys will. As a kid I got a good explanation of how badly certain ideologies failed even if they looked reasonable. I also got an intro to safe handling of guns, especially the part about never ever pointing a gun at anyone, loaded or not, except in wartime. I was quite young then but it sticks, like a whole lot of other stuff from my childhood. I'll try to give that to the next generation together, together with an explanation of how insanely stupid such manifestos are - and a crash course in unarmed fighting (disable or confuse opponent, get away). Young people should know what exists or it will take them by surprise. > "First they came for the terrorists and I did nothing because I wasn't a terrorist... And nothing of value was lost". Definitions of "terrorist" differs and while I and you can agree on this and many others I really really don't want to have more power than necessary in the hands of any government. Read history and you'll see that most cruelties in the last few hundred years were commited by states against their own citizens, not by random blokes with weapons.
  - beezischillin 8y ago
    They also blocked Dissenter, a comments system which doesn’t host anything or even allow image uploads.
- zeta0134 8y ago
  4chan is a relatively popular anonymous image board, based on a Japanese language image board (2ch) but with mostly English language users. It's administration are known to be quite lax with content; if it's not outright illegal to host they'll generally let it slide in their NSFW boards. To use a recent example, their Adult GIF board right now, while flooded mostly with pornography, is currently housing uncensored footage from the recent mass shooting. Thanks to the lack of user accounts needed to use the site, pretty much everyone checks their social filter at the door, and it's earned some unfavorable comparisons. Given its reputation I'm not surprised to hear it's the subject of censorship.
  - ShorsHammer 8y ago
    There's a huge irony here in that major news outlets in Australia including Rupert Murdochs SkyNews all showed uncensored footage, some of it autoplaying and profited from doing so. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/15/australian-media-broadcast-footage-from-christchurch-shootings-despite-police-pleas https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/15/australian-med...
    - codedokode 8y ago
      Were their sites blocked?
  - chii 8y ago
    Blocking materials is the incorrect way to deradicalize people. I would further argue that by blocking it, the material is made to seem more scarce, and even more desirable for those who would otherwise not have been interested if it hadn't been blocked! Outreach from social workers and societal safety net is the best way to prevent radicalization. I see legalization of drugs as an example.
    - simonh 8y ago
      I think there are many good reasons to block that video that have nothing to do with radicalisation. For a start this is footage of the deaths of dozens of people who, along with their families, have a right to privacy.
- simias 8y ago
  They wanted to block the diffusion of the video showing the Mosque shooting and the distribution of the killer's manifesto. Since it was being spammed on 4chan rather relentlessly they decided to pull the plug on the website basically.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
strictfp 8y ago
Yeah, everyone is so defiant that they don't realize that IP and VPN blocks are coming if we continue down this road.
- richjdsmith 8y ago
  The UK is already there. My VPN was blocked recently and I had to go to my network provider with my ID to prove my age(?!) so I could access my VPN again. I was not impressed.
  - celticninja 8y ago
    What VPN was blocked?
  - inapis 8y ago
    At that point it would be better to roll your own and use ports 22 or 443.
    - setquk 8y ago
      This is what I’m doing. Linode box.
      - bryanrasmussen 8y ago
        Probably it's worth not blocking you for that, just add you to a list as a person of interest.
    - Krasnol 8y ago
      I guess this is the point where you leave the general public behind. Lucky you. Which fits fantastically in the discussion over at the San Diego Streetlight surveillance and the "Software engineers social responsibility"[1] vs. the fact that it will get worse if you make it mainstream. Interesting times. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19545668 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19545668
regecks 8y ago
How? 4chan use Cloudflare. They don't have a dedicated IP, do they? I would be surprised if Optus actually managed to do SNI filtering for the entire country without screwing it up. Edit: Huh, seems like they do have a dedicated IP. At least both Robtex and Securitytrails report them as the only tenant on their IP. But you can /etc/hosts 4chan.org to a different Cloudflare IP, and CF will still SNI-route it to the real site. That would defeat any IP address-based block.
- codedokode 8y ago
  If I remember correctly, Cloudflare assigns different IPs to different sites, so you can use blocking by IP, but of course in this case you will also block other sites using the same Cloudflare server. I have also written how the site can try to bypass the blocking: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19552689 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19552689
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

by ndnxhs 8y ago

Its always DNS first and everyone says "lol, just change your DNS" and then they start doing real blocks. Optus in Australia did an IP level block of 4chan recently.

edwinyzh 8y ago

Sorry if this sounds stupid, but I don't know much about 4chan - why block 4chan?

Causality1 8y ago
New Zealand and Australia recently went on a "do something" tear regarding the mosque shooting. Sites where the video or manifesto was posted got blocked, including 4chan. And yes, you read that right, New Zealand made it a crime to distribute a specific piece of text data.
- ShorsHammer 8y ago
  Which if you read that "specific piece of text data" is the outcome the murderer wanted. They responded exactly how he desired.
  - zapzupnz 8y ago
    The "this is what they wanted" argument is always something that rings alarm bells in my head; it sounds like the "it's a slippery slope" wolf in sheep's clothing.
    - collyw 8y ago
      You hear it a lot, but in this case he pretty much outlined it in his manifesto.
      - lumberjack 8y ago
        Why are you taking his word at face value? What he really wants is to spread his propaganda. He is just trying to use reverse psychology to make you do just that.
  - simias 8y ago
    Who cares about what that guy wanted or didn't want. The question is whether we should let people distribute his manifesto for the sake of freedom of expression or if we consider it to be dangerous and worthy of a ban. The opinion of the guy who committed this heinous crime is frankly irrelevant IMO. If I was to commit some atrocities tomorrow and write a pamphlet outlining my motive and calling for others to do the same thing while adding a note saying "look, they'll try to censor this!" will you, out of principle, argue that my manifesto shouldn't be censured because that's what I would've wanted? If so, why?
    - FeepingCreature 8y ago
      Eh, if a murderous white supremacist has a strategy we should at least ask if the strategy can work before we exactly play into it.
      - simias 8y ago
        You're giving a lot of credit to a meme-spouting serial killer. It's not like as if it was step 34 of his master plan, he merely got a gun and started shooting at innocent people. I'll take my chances and keep ignoring him and not giving him a platform. In my opinion his main objective was to get attention and put his nauseous ideology in the spotlight. I don't know if banning it is the right solution but frankly I won't waste my time playing devil's advocate for a mass murderer. "First they came for the terrorists and I did nothing because I wasn't a terrorist... And nothing of value was lost".
        reitanqild 8y ago
        > I'll take my chances and keep ignoring him and not giving him a platform. Hopefully society will not do that. The content might be repulsive but we are better off knowing how they think than allowing only them to know the contents. Crazy manifestos are probably just like weapons in this regard, ordinary people won't care to get one if they are illegal, bad guys will. As a kid I got a good explanation of how badly certain ideologies failed even if they looked reasonable. I also got an intro to safe handling of guns, especially the part about never ever pointing a gun at anyone, loaded or not, except in wartime. I was quite young then but it sticks, like a whole lot of other stuff from my childhood. I'll try to give that to the next generation together, together with an explanation of how insanely stupid such manifestos are - and a crash course in unarmed fighting (disable or confuse opponent, get away). Young people should know what exists or it will take them by surprise. > "First they came for the terrorists and I did nothing because I wasn't a terrorist... And nothing of value was lost". Definitions of "terrorist" differs and while I and you can agree on this and many others I really really don't want to have more power than necessary in the hands of any government. Read history and you'll see that most cruelties in the last few hundred years were commited by states against their own citizens, not by random blokes with weapons.
- beezischillin 8y ago
  They also blocked Dissenter, a comments system which doesn’t host anything or even allow image uploads.
zeta0134 8y ago
4chan is a relatively popular anonymous image board, based on a Japanese language image board (2ch) but with mostly English language users. It's administration are known to be quite lax with content; if it's not outright illegal to host they'll generally let it slide in their NSFW boards. To use a recent example, their Adult GIF board right now, while flooded mostly with pornography, is currently housing uncensored footage from the recent mass shooting. Thanks to the lack of user accounts needed to use the site, pretty much everyone checks their social filter at the door, and it's earned some unfavorable comparisons. Given its reputation I'm not surprised to hear it's the subject of censorship.
- ShorsHammer 8y ago
  There's a huge irony here in that major news outlets in Australia including Rupert Murdochs SkyNews all showed uncensored footage, some of it autoplaying and profited from doing so. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/15/australian-media-broadcast-footage-from-christchurch-shootings-despite-police-pleas https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/15/australian-med...
  - codedokode 8y ago
    Were their sites blocked?
- chii 8y ago
  Blocking materials is the incorrect way to deradicalize people. I would further argue that by blocking it, the material is made to seem more scarce, and even more desirable for those who would otherwise not have been interested if it hadn't been blocked! Outreach from social workers and societal safety net is the best way to prevent radicalization. I see legalization of drugs as an example.
  - simonh 8y ago
    I think there are many good reasons to block that video that have nothing to do with radicalisation. For a start this is footage of the deaths of dozens of people who, along with their families, have a right to privacy.
simias 8y ago
They wanted to block the diffusion of the video showing the Mosque shooting and the distribution of the killer's manifesto. Since it was being spammed on 4chan rather relentlessly they decided to pull the plug on the website basically.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

strictfp 8y ago

Yeah, everyone is so defiant that they don't realize that IP and VPN blocks are coming if we continue down this road.

richjdsmith 8y ago
The UK is already there. My VPN was blocked recently and I had to go to my network provider with my ID to prove my age(?!) so I could access my VPN again. I was not impressed.
- celticninja 8y ago
  What VPN was blocked?
- inapis 8y ago
  At that point it would be better to roll your own and use ports 22 or 443.
  - setquk 8y ago
    This is what I’m doing. Linode box.
    - bryanrasmussen 8y ago
      Probably it's worth not blocking you for that, just add you to a list as a person of interest.
  - Krasnol 8y ago
    I guess this is the point where you leave the general public behind. Lucky you. Which fits fantastically in the discussion over at the San Diego Streetlight surveillance and the "Software engineers social responsibility"[1] vs. the fact that it will get worse if you make it mainstream. Interesting times. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19545668 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19545668

regecks 8y ago

How? 4chan use Cloudflare. They don't have a dedicated IP, do they? I would be surprised if Optus actually managed to do SNI filtering for the entire country without screwing it up. Edit: Huh, seems like they do have a dedicated IP. At least both Robtex and Securitytrails report them as the only tenant on their IP. But you can /etc/hosts 4chan.org to a different Cloudflare IP, and CF will still SNI-route it to the real site. That would defeat any IP address-based block.

codedokode 8y ago
If I remember correctly, Cloudflare assigns different IPs to different sites, so you can use blocking by IP, but of course in this case you will also block other sites using the same Cloudflare server. I have also written how the site can try to bypass the blocking: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19552689 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19552689
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]