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The FCC has fined robocallers $208M and collected $7k
- esoterae 8y agoRobocallers are a problem! You can help fight this and make a difference with just a few simple steps! First, you... Please subscribe for only $N per month to keep reading!
- jaimehrubiks 8y agoI sadly tend to miss and skip news I can't read
- jchw 8y agoI know it's irrelevant to the discussion, but it really does irritate me when I get paywalled. I am 100% more likely to never purchase a subscription. I don't care if all journalism dies because of it.
- dontreact 8y agoIf you don’t care about journalism at all, why is paywalling so irritating?
- jchw 8y agoDefinitely didn't say I don't care about journalism, just that if this is the future I'd rather it died, consequences be damned. To me, a future with only paywalls is nearly as bad.
- dlivingston 8y agoIf journalism is dying, it's precisely because of the lack of paywalls. Quality journalism costs money. The un-paywalled, ad-centric business models rewards click-bait articles, not in-depth longform pieces.
- jchw 8y agoFine. It can die then. I will gladly participate in that.
- dlivingston 8y agoWhy the hostility?
- jchw 8y agoI feel it is warranted. To me, paywalled journalism feels hostile. I don't want an internet where every link I click wants me to buy a new subscription. It's the same reason I don't pay for TV anymore. And I don't mean I'm pirating it, I just don't consume it. If this is the only way to save journalism then I'm guessing regardless of people's ambitions it's probably doomed anyways. I mean, there has been some success, but seriously, how many monthly subscriptions do I need? I pay for Creative Suite, Jetbrains Toolbox, YouTube, Amazon, multiple Patreons, a few VPS providers, Mullvad, and so many other things. Monetary value aside, I just can't manage to have more subscriptions, less one for every major publication just so I can click on links and not get paywalled constantly. I don't read from these publications regularly at all. The day every link on the net wants it's own subscription is the day I completely stop bothering with reading entirely.
- dlivingston 8y agoI agree completely regarding the overwhelmingness of online subscriptions. Personally, I'm interested in seeing how Apple's News+ works out, as that's the best of both worlds (a single subscription + nominal fee journo support). Edit: out of curiosity, why do you pay for YouTube Red? I don't really see the value in it
- jchw 8y agoI basically just pay for things I use a lot. With YouTube I use the offline videos and background playback very frequently, and not having ads without adblock is nice. And yes, I concede that something more like Apple News would be much better. Still, I fear for a future where every last bit of content is behind a subscription paywall. The freemium model and ads in general get a lot of well-deserved flak, but they do at least make things more accessible. I find it fascinating how different the opinion on HN regarding paywalls is when it comes to scientific journals versus news publications. Like yeah, the money is ostensibly going to the right person with news publication paywalls. But a lot of arguments about paywalls hinge around how it gates knowledge and information, and to the end user, it really isn't any different than if your ISP charged you $5/mo for Wikipedia access. I realize this comparison will make people upset, but to the average user? Really is the same thing. All in all, I shouldn't be so irrationally angry over paywalls, but there are days when I come across 3 or 4 links that I can't read, and I just pass over it, remembering the past when people could discuss almost any article online regardless of how much free cash they have to pay for subscriptions.
- system2 8y agoI would love to see a graphic explaining WSJ's users, their jobs, income, lifestyle. I am assuming mostly fintech people.
- chrischen 8y agoI know I read an article claiming that people don’t consume a medley of news publications, but the internet and things like hackernews clearly have changed that. So I think an Apple News subscription really solves this issue. One flat monthly fee, and I can consume all the paywalled stuff on HN.
- pocketstar 8y agoinkl.com has been around a lot longer than “apple news” and seems to have much more news sources. Im going to be voting for the underdog with my money.
- soared 8y ago> Hates paying for content > Hates advertising mfw
- dymk 8y agoOr use outline.com! Ignore that it's just straight up rehosting pirated content from paid sources. Edit: This is a heavily downvoted comment. Instead of downvoting, how about you explain why you think you're entitled to paid content for free?
- jelling 8y agoShh...the knowledge workers that arrange bits in one format don't think the knowledge workers that arrange bits in another format deserve to be paid. They should innovate their way out of their victimization in a way that pleases their attackers.
- sugarpile 8y ago> paying for digital content mfw never subbed, never donated, adblock, stolen laptop, neighbours wifi
- westoque 8y agoThat's why I subscribed to Apples' latest News+ service. If I paid 9.99 to have access to whole bunch of publications, then I wouldn't mind paying at all.
- mbrumlow 8y agoMaybe they can hire some robocallers to robocall the robocallers for collection?
- ravenstine 8y agoYou can stop robocallers by simply not using the archaic phone system. Set your phone to only accept calls from people in your contacts, or simply reject all calls. Educate everyone you know about doing so. Legacy telecom needs to die.
- Lownin 8y agoCool. My dad has been in the hospital a fair bit lately. I'll just tell them to Facetime me from now on if they need to reach me.
- mehrdadn 8y agoI've done this and it's still a pain going through their voicemails all the time.
- itake 8y agoI am interviewing for jobs and I have my phone number on my resume so recruiters can contact me. This is not a good solution for many people or small businesses.
- peterwwillis 8y agoI suggest using a dedicated Google Voice number for this. I have over 300 voicemails and texts from recruiters and they keep coming, even though my number hasn't been listed in years.
- imglorp 8y agoNor people with children at school, or sick family members, etc... Very much a captive audience.
- danny_taco 8y agoI stopped putting my telephone number on my resume years ago. I realized I would start getting spam calls more often (and this was years ago) whenever I started passing my resume around to recruiters or applying directly to companies. If they want to reach me, they can do so my email, and it has worked fine so far.
- soheil 8y agoNon paywall version [0] Or just copy and paste the original link in your Facebook search and click it from there. [0] https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsj.com%2Farticles%2Fthe-fcc-has-fined-robocallers-208-million-its-collected-6-790-11553770803&h=AT2p7k0fAEoiHsQyIX1vF0awPvoLkfNbwnpoENJ4TZzT6zAJyj6TDSaUXzncCU2T5efBKuWK_2u3LRoEjkRbKTm-qHcakP42-Td4sS3obUwsY69qsMZGackjfwfS_HaxzYJa-g&s=1 https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsj.com%2Fa...
- tekromancr 8y agoThat link is still paywalled
- caprese 8y agoI used it but then realized I was logged in to the WSJ and had a subscription I'm just so used to circumventing paywalls that I forgot I actually pay for that
- arcticbull 8y agoAny time I get a call from a human robocaller, I treat it as a game to get them to hang up by telling them I plan to waste their time, then dong so without remorse. Knowing many companies won't let them hang up so long as I'm on the line, it can be quite the game.
- DevX101 8y agoIf they're getting paid by the hour with no bonuses, you might be doing the caller a favor. Gets a nice break in silence.
- reificator 8y agoCall center agents are some of the most micromanaged groups on the planet. You waste their time, and you can bet you just caused them a ton of trouble at work. If your average handle time is too high, you're in trouble. If your sales per hour are too low, you're in trouble. If you spend too much time in wrap, you're in trouble. If you don't collect all the information you need to after a call, you're in trouble. If you're having your best week ever but end up at the bottom of the stacked rankings regardless, you're in trouble.
- michaelmrose 8y agoI'm not too concerned about the career prospects of people hired to harass and scam people for a living. In fact anything that damages their interests helps mine by making it less efficient to run such operations. If there was a sega genesis like cheat code one could press on ones handset that would deliver an electric shock to the person on the other end of the line I would press it.
- Buttons840 8y ago"Hi, we're calling to ensure you're 100% satisfied with the box of toothpicks your ordered from our Amazon store..."
- usaphp 8y agoCan someone explain me what is the business model for WSJ of acquiring new readers. If new readers can’t even read the article to know if it’s worth subscribing or not. It looks like they only rely on older people who used to read WSJ when it wasn’t behind a paywall
- gamblor956 8y agoThe WSJ has a well-deserved reputation for its financial analysis. People in business and especially in finance will gladly pay for the subscription. They don't really care if anyone else reads the paper; the expected return on a non-core subscriber isn't worth much more than the cost of acquisition, so there's not much point to changing their business model to chase gadflies. At the same time, non-core readers are a large source of potential revenue, so they make their stories available through some means (like Apple News) in a manner that allows them access to a large non-core market while protecting their core subscription model.
- coolspot 8y agoBrand name recognition + citations. When potential subscriber sees that everyone links wsj news, but (s)he can't read it, eventually (s)he subscribes.
- naravara 8y ago>Can someone explain me what is the business model for WSJ of acquiring new readers. If new readers can’t even read the article to know if it’s worth subscribing or not. It looks like they only rely on older people who used to read WSJ when it wasn’t behind a paywall They give them out for free in colleges, especially in business schools. Many corporate offices and law firms and stuff also have subscriptions that they maintain.
- amelius 8y agoSome time ago Google demonstrated a robocaller, and iirc most people on HN thought it was cool ...
- mullen 8y agoGoogle Call Screen on Pixel phones is pretty amazing and entertaining. Get robocall, just run it through that and you get real time voice to text with options on how to respond.
- shawnz 8y agoRobocalling refers to the automated dialing of numbers, not automated speaking over the telephone.
- beering 8y agoThey literally suggested the use case of robo-calling restaurants to get holiday hours. I think it's a great idea BTW.
- shawnz 8y agoBut you choose the restaurant, it doesn't automatically call every restaurant nearby. The product is the automated voice, not the automated calling of numbers.
- DigiMortal 8y agoTear down that wall! ....WSJ!
- themagician 8y agoCan someone explain to me how spoofing is even possible and why it is allowed? That’s what I’ve never understood about this whole thing. Does it has any legitimate use? Robocalls would be much easier to address if you could block/report the actual number they come from.
- hateful 8y agoI don't have the real answer, but I remember back when Google Desktop was a thing, I had a widget that would allow me to send a text to anyone and it had a field for the "from" number. So my guess is that the protocol they use asks the caller for the "from" number.
- AnimalMuppet 8y agoLet's say you're a business. You have a "front desk" number that you want incoming calls to come from, but you have a bunch of other people with their own numbers that make outbound calls. You want those outbound calls to show up as if from your "front desk" number, not from the actual individual numbers they came from. But spoofing to a number that you don't own? No, I don't know of any legitimate use for that.
- Buttons840 8y agoI did this for the medical industry. We made robocalls to remind patients of their appointments. We originated the robocalls from a central location, but would spoof the Caller ID so that it would show the number of the appointment desk of their local medical facility. This way if they called the number on the CID, they would reach an appointment desk with the power to help them reschedule or otherwise.
- reificator 8y ago> But spoofing to a number that you don't own? No, I don't know of any legitimate use for that. When making calls on behalf of an entity that does own that number. Happens all the time, a company hires a bunch of call centers, they make outbound calls, then those return calls go back to a number owned by the original company. They can then answer them in-house, transfer them to a certain call center, transfer them round-robin, whatever they need to do. Plus it gives them the flexibility to drop a certain call center if needed, without having to worry about losing control of that number.
- hathawsh 8y agoHere are some tips for anyone plagued by robocalls. My cordless phones have a simple "call block" button. It's quite helpful. The set is similar to this set: https://smile.amazon.com/Panasonic-KXTGF344B-4-Handset-Landline-Telephone/dp/B00V5ZKBZI https://smile.amazon.com/Panasonic-KXTGF344B-4-Handset-Landl... My "landline" is actually VoIP through Callcentric. They have good rates, the service is extremely customizable, and they are very reliable. Sometimes I use Callcentric to block numbers before they reach my phone. I'm not affiliated with Callcentric or Panasonic. I'm just a happy customer.
- pavel_lishin 8y agoWhat do those "call block" buttons do?
- alistairSH 8y agoI believe they just add the currently listed (via caller ID) to a blacklist that it will block in the future. It doesn't help for spam calls that rotate their spoofed numbers.
- hathawsh 8y agoThat's right, the button instantly adds the caller ID to a blacklist. In my experience, spammers don't rotate their numbers very often, so the button works well enough. YMMV of course.
- TacticalTable 8y agoInteresting. I've never received a spam call from the same number twice. They just pick something with the same first 3 digits and area code.
- alistairSH 8y agoThat's my experience. Either a northern VA (703, 571) or DC (202) area code with random last 7 digits. And these days, about half the spam calls are in Chinese. Because Alistair is such a common name in the Chinese-American community. :|
- prolepunk 8y agoLast week tonight released an episode on exact this issue a few days ago -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO0iG_P0P6M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO0iG_P0P6M John Oliver should increase the frequency of robocalls to FCC chairs.
- tsumnia 8y agoFor my own understanding, is the issue with robocalling the same with the issues of spam emails or arbitrary DDOS attacks? In the guise that they look "legitimate", but are "malicious" and any attempt to identify the original source is difficult due to multiple proxies masking the origin?
- system2 8y agoI still don't understand how hard it would be for major phone carriers to validate the source and let the calls thru. Wouldn't it be possible just to allow Verizon to TMobile, or ATT to Verizon, since they both have their user info and can validate each other's calls? I mean, I can see their names on my phone, why not just add a little bit more info to make it more legit.
- tantalor 8y agoWhat about the non-major providers? They are no longer allowed to operate?
- kbaker 8y agoThis is happening, but slowly. It is a huge problem to get all carriers / phone operators to get this installed enough to be useful. Research SHAKEN/STIR to see more about it. Here's an example between AT&T and Comcast: https://about.att.com/story/2019/anti_robocall.html https://about.att.com/story/2019/anti_robocall.html
- gpm 8y agoThis appears to be the same article - or at least a substantial portion of it - without a paywall (but with an annoying autoplaying video) https://www.foxnews.com/tech/the-fcc-has-fined-robocallers-208-million-its-collected-6790 https://www.foxnews.com/tech/the-fcc-has-fined-robocallers-2...
- tyfon 8y agoSometimes I wonder if the web designers deliberately tries to drive me away from their pages. Or maybe it's a case of death by 100s of a/b tests?
- sctb 8y agoThanks! We've updated the link from https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-fcc-has-fined-robocallers-208-million-its-collected-6-790-11553770803 https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-fcc-has-fined-robocallers-2....
- antonf 8y agoCan filtering out robocallers be solved through technology? Similarly to how Spam folder in your email app works. I have zero knowledge about how telecom works, but it seems not too complex. Also, it seems that iOS have support for third party apps helping to block spam calls: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207099 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207099 Android have this feature built-in: https://support.google.com/phoneapp/answer/3459196?hl=en https://support.google.com/phoneapp/answer/3459196?hl=en
- sjbase 8y agoThere's a protocol being worked on called STIR/SHAKEN to address robocalls [0]. It's more like website / browser certificate PKI than spam filtering. Some of the major US telcos are working toward implementation already. [0] https://transnexus.com/whitepapers/understanding-stir-shaken/ https://transnexus.com/whitepapers/understanding-stir-shaken...
- elhudy 8y agoI've noticed that almost all of the robocalls i receive come from a number beginning with the same three numbers as my number. I would love for the ability to block all calls beginning with these three numbers, UNLESS they are already on my contacts list. This would solve 95% of robocalls for me and wouldn't have too much of a negative impact. Although I could imagine the impact for people who receive many unknown calls from their own area code would be non-negligible.
- CharlesW 8y ago> I've noticed that almost all of the robocalls i receive come from a number beginning with the same three numbers as my number. I would love for the ability to block all calls beginning with these three numbers, UNLESS they are already on my contacts list. Hiya (and presumably other solutions, but I've used Hiya extensively) does this.
- elhudy 8y agoyou're a lifesaver; glad I asked!
- kolbe 8y agoOutline isn't working for me. Anyone know if the WSJ did something to thwart them?
- Redoubts 8y agoThey've definitely been working on fewer domains for me lately
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- basseq 8y agoFrom a similar article from Gothamist: > The problem here is partly bureaucratic: While the FCC has the power to dole out fines, it lacks the power to actually enforce those orders. That task, according to the Journal, falls to the Justice Department, and is not made easier by the fact that many entities responsible for this relentless aural spam are individual people or small outfits that can't afford the fees they rack up and can skirt collectors without too much fuss. ... and... > The Federal Trade Commission, it should be said, has done slightly better. Since 2004, it has won a total of $1.5 billion from robocallers and No-Call Registry violators in court, of which it has collected $121 million, or 8 percent of the total. The Federal Trade Commission, it should be said, has done slightly better. Since 2004, it has won a total of $1.5 billion from robocallers and No-Call Registry violators in court, of which it has collected $121 million, or 8 percent of the total. http://gothamist.com/2019/03/28/fcc_robocall_collection.php http://gothamist.com/2019/03/28/fcc_robocall_collection.php
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- CWSZ 8y agoChange might be coming. The SHAKEN/STIR framework to authenticate calls is making decent progress: https://transnexus.com/blog/2018/providers-responses-shaken-without-delay/ https://transnexus.com/blog/2018/providers-responses-shaken-... Once implemented incoming calls can be handled differently (e.g. UI differences on dialer, dropped to voicemail) based upon the attestation.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- mtw 8y agoThe only reason I didn't cancel my phone is 2FA and a few essential apps relying on you having a phone. Otherwise it's been weeks, if not months I haven't initiated a voice call, and I might only get one valid voice call per 2 weeks.
- TallGuyShort 8y agoMy solution to the robocalls problem is that I essentially don't answer my phone anymore. Some known numbers will get through, like my parents. 95% of my communication is either text-based, web-based video calls, or something else that's not traditional phone calls, especially not from unknown numbers.
- j4kp07 8y agoMy solution is 24/7/365 Do Not Disturb for calls from users not found in my contacts list. In the off chance (<5%) the call is NOT a robocall, they can leave a voicemail if it is important.
- pessimizer 8y agoStop fining and start jailing. Those fines aren't going to compensate the people getting robocalled anyway. Jail a few dozen people, and in 10 years when parents tell their kids that recordings used to call to trick you into financial scams, they'll think their parents are joking.
- ortusdux 8y agoDoes anyone have experience with the google call screening available on pixel phones?
- CarVac 8y agoI do; it's fantastic. Robocallers hang up every time.
- ortusdux 8y agoOne of the biggest issues here is that the people who would pass laws to crackdown on robocalls depend on the technology to raise re-election funds.
- Causality1 8y agoFines are a worthless form of punishment since almost all companies just see them as a tax that may or may not be levied, and even if it is levied it will never exceed the profits made by the illegal behavior. Every single fine over $1000 should come with prison time for somebody. I don't care if it's a single weekend in jail, when company executives choose to abuse consumers it's people who should be punished, not bank accounts.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- busterarm 8y agoThis is kinda funny. This is one area where private industry is demonstrably doing better than a government agency. Lawfirms have collected billions from private industry via class action TCPA cases. This just means that the FCC has been ineffective. The law is actually mostly working as intended. It stops/punishes legitimate large enterprises from robocalling. It's no surprise that a law isn't doing anything about scammers who are already breaking the law.
- rhizome 8y agoMandate that telephone customers who receive bad calls can acquire the billing information of every call received (whatever is behind the spoofed Caller ID), as well as implementing the ability for users to block incoming calls based on the unspoofed number and/or account holder.
- ada1981 8y agoWe out to fix robocalling / spoofing. We also ought to fix the collection of fines and include jail time for execs when fines aren’t paid.
- mnm1 8y agoWhy even have laws and regulations that aren't or can't be enforced? Might as well stop pretending like the government cares about this issue or that there is even a law/regulation. It's exactly the same thing as not having a law/regulation.
- mojomark 8y agoWhy do they stop with the robocallers, instead of going after a-holes who are paying for the robocaller services?
- bichiliad 8y agoHas anyone had any success with one of the handful of call blocking apps or services? T-Mobile's Name ID service seems to be doing a fairly good job, but a handful of calls still slip through the cracks.