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Android users in Europe will be asked which browser and search engine they want
- shkkmo 8y agoWhy just Europe?
- Pharmakon 8y agoBecause the EU has a history of at least pretending to care about consumer rights, and (more) aggressively going after anti-competitive practices?
- shivo 8y agoIt's much better than having a do-as-you-like policies.
- Mirioron 8y agoYeah, and this pretending comes at the annoyance of the end-user.
- martin_a 8y agoObviously companies love to give the EU a wipe for the imposed regulations. That's easier than doing your homework.
- krageon 8y agoI've never met a real person that's actually annoyed at these regulations, only spurious internet humans.
- rstuart4133 8y agoThen I'm a "spurious internet human". This rash of Cookie warnings that has infested the internet and pisses me off no end. For the life of me I can't see what useful purpose it serves. Worse, they's managed to do this twice now.
- Mirioron 8y agoYou've never met anyone in real life that is annoyed by cookie pop ups? I find that hard to believe.
- krageon 8y agoIn much the same way most people don't care at all about advertising modals save for maybe a grunt meant to signify some annoyance, most people don't care about cookie popups.
- snthd 8y agoIt's a move to appease the European Commission. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-google-android-idUSKCN1R02T8 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-google-android-idUSKCN... > Google could be fined up to 5 percent of Alphabet’s average daily worldwide turnover if it fails to comply with the EU order to stop anti-competitive practices.
- roasm 8y agoNon-European here. Does iOS have to do the same thing?
- sigzero 8y agoProbably not since Apple doesn't license iOS to anyone else and solely controls it.
- snrji 8y agoTherefore, if Google and all the Android OEMs merged, no antitrust action would be taken with regards to Android apps. Is that correct?
- ucaetano 8y agoYou're assuming that the action was based on policy, not on politics.
- roasm 8y agoDoes that matter? I would think it would have to do with market share more than any licensing. iOS has ~28% share in the EU. http://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/europe http://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/europe
- ucaetano 8y agoIt matters, the EC defined the market as "licensable mobile operating systems", and not "mobile operating systems". If they were looking at "mobile operating systems", their antitrust ruling would make no sense.
- saagarjha 8y agoThis seems like it would be interesting, given that Google reportedly pays Apple billions of dollars to remain the default on iOS.
- azernik 8y ago
- scarejunba 8y agoOh Christ. I wish I could just express "give me your version" as a setting on some universal identity service and they'd leave me alone.
- sanxiyn 8y agoA great day for consumer choice. US should do the same. (They did for Microsoft!)
- jwr 8y agoFat chance, with the amount of lobbying in Washington DC by Google.
- cronix 8y agoSure, we'll allow you to change that stuff!! (thank goodness they didn't ask what the OS itself is collecting)
- qwerty456127 8y agoProbably as useful as the cookie warning law. If this meant the Google stuff was not going to be installed if you choose different and the device was still going to be fully functional (you could still install apps from the store) that would be something but I doubt this is the case. By the way, why do they use the Chinese《一》character instead of hyphens?
- boulos 8y ago> By the way, why do they use the Chinese《一》character instead of hyphens? Are you sure that’s not an emdash?
- zapzupnz 8y agoCopy and paste the character then run it through a search engine, is definitely the Chinese/Japanese character for 'one'.
- jjjjjjjjjjjjjjj 8y agoI thought so too, but for some reason they're actually using cjk unified ideograph 4e00, 一 which is the Chinese (also used in Japanese) character for 1...
- zapzupnz 8y agoIt's more like when Microsoft was forced to offer a choice of web browser with certain versions of Windows sold in Europe, less in line with the cookie thing.
- lostmsu 8y agoI like their title > Supporting choice and competition in Europe Like it was their initiative!
- jake_the_third 8y agoAnd only in the EU... Hey Google, how about supporting choice and competition in the rest of the world?
- aboutruby 8y ago> On Android phones, you’ve always been able to install any search engine or browser you want, irrespective of what came pre-installed on the phone when you bought it. cough cough cough, that google search bar in the home screen by default is pretty Google Search specific.
- 0815test 8y agoIt's integrated in the launcher, which is a replaceable part of the system. Just pick a launcher that doesn't have it, or makes it optional.
- acct1771 8y agoYour parents: "Wait...say that again?"
- parthdesai 8y agoAt least there is an option if you want to. Compare to that to the Android's biggest rival, where different browsers are glorified skins on top of Webkit.
- lern_too_spel 8y agoNever explain low level details to parents. Just tell them what to do. In this case, it's as easy as sending them a link like https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microsoft.launcher https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microsoft....
- art0rz 8y agoMy parents are also the least likely to install a browser other than what comes default
- staticassertion 8y agoAre launchers fully replaceable now? I remember years back you could run another launcher but the default launcher process would still execute and remain in the background. Not really a 0 cost choice at that point - especially when phones had weak hardware.
- mythz 8y ago> we’ve always agreed on one thing一that healthy, thriving markets are in everyone’s interest. We're so much in agreement that we're only going to trial that healthy, thriving market in the EU - where we're legally obligated to.
- freedomben 8y agoHaha agreed. I'm generally not in favor of regulation, but sadly this does seem to show that it can be effective. Google could have done this before but chose not to. Clearly they don't really believe their own PR, or else they'd institute it worldwide.
- mancerayder 8y agoI believe they call it, as for forgiveness rather than ask for permission. It's funny how fines can sometimes act on that philosophy in ethical ways.
- quest88 8y agoMaybe to legally force Apple into a similar pattern? I don't know the details of the law.
- angott 8y agoApple is not affected by most of these rulings as they only apply to firms that control the majority of a given market (the goal of these laws is to impact potential monopolists, not smaller actors). Apple is not considered to have majority market share in smartphones because iOS represents only 20% of the market, as opposed to Android which is ubiquitous.
- hesarenu 8y agoThat would still be millions of users who don't have a choice.
- 8y ago
- rk404 8y agoI wish Google would take a page from Apple's book and be more forceful with their public responses to this stuff. Basically like Apple saying that they invest in their products and Spotify just wants a free ride (which I agree with) Google has an even better case as they also let users sideload apps and change defaults.
- Barrin92 8y ago>Basically like Apple saying that they invest in their products and Spotify just wants a free ride (which I agree with) nobody's going to use a phone that isn't supported by applications. In fact every application provided by developers to the apple ecosystem increases the marginal value of the phone. In what world is that free riding? And why would anyone support this egregious behaviour of giant companies commanding around the rest of the market?
- rk404 8y agoI'm of the mindset that when you create something you gain the privilege to do with it as you please.
- falcor84 8y agoWhat does that mean? Creating a trebuchet doesn't give you the privilege to sling projectiles at the neighboring town, right? You are allowed to do what you please with your things within the confines of the law. A government creates laws to promote the wellbeing of the populace. In this case, they decided that it's no longer lawful for Google to set a default browser, so Google shouldn't do it anymore.
- rk404 8y agoWe're not talking about inflicting bodily harm, it's a different context where the "well being of the populace" isn't guaranteed nor is achieving it the motive here. It might be legal for a government that is driven by populist and protectionist agenda to target the useful and unique inventions of foreign companies but it isn't fair and it infringes on the natural rights of these companies.
- Smithalicious 8y agoSo what's the point? You could always install a different browser and search engine, and that really isn't so difficult that an average user couldn't figure it out. I'm all for combating anticompetitive practices but this really doesn't look like one. This just gives me a "users are idiots" vibe.
- angott 8y ago> that really isn't so difficult that an average user couldn't figure it out [...] This just gives me a "users are idiots" vibe It's not a matter of difficulty, but rather a matter of awareness. Based on my experience from friends and family, I have reason to believe there is a significant chunk of Android users who don't know they can use an alternative default browser. Most people just click on the Chrome icon that comes built-in at the bottom of their home screen, and that's all for them. It's not the average HN user we are talking about, obviously...
- Mirioron 8y agoYes, and now that average user goes: why can't I use the internet on my phone? It gives me this stupid pop up and I don't know how. Please fix it.
- euyyn 8y agoLast LG I bought came with some vanilla non-Chrome browser preinstalled. I don't know if from AOSP or from LG themselves. Has that changed in the last years? If not, how does this affect companies like LG?
- lern_too_spel 8y agoIt's the same as the browser choice system that Microsoft had to implement. I have no doubt that it helped Firefox and then Chrome gain market share. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrowserChoice.eu https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrowserChoice.eu
- mythz 8y agoDefaults matter. Users don't change defaults unless they have a good reason to, and statistically they don't.
- Theodores 8y ago"Which interface to the Webkit/Blink browser technology do you want?" "Which provider of Google Search results do you want?" I will cheekily assume Microsoft are still craftily getting Google search queries into Bing somehow. And that Duck Duck Go, Ecosia, Yahoo and everything else are dipping into the Google goodness. The EU should build their own search engine and browser. That is what is happening in places like Russia and China where they don't want to be reliant on Silicon Valley. It seems silly to be not view information search and presentation of web pages as a strategic thing in this day and age, particularly when there is Five Eyes snooping in.
- saagarjha 8y ago> I will cheekily assume Microsoft are still craftily getting Google search queries into Bing somehow. And that Duck Duck Go, Ecosia, Yahoo and everything else are dipping into the Google goodness. What?
- sam0x17 8y agoHe is saying that non-google search engines are just repackaging google search results because no one actually has the resources to build a search engine anymore. Bing was already caught doing this like 10 years back if I remember correctly, and while I doubt Bing still does this, I bet a number of the smaller players do. It's as easy as setting up a lambda with headless chromium and then integrating those results into whatever internal results your system has (if any) on the fly. Google is fast enough that this could be done without any perceptible performance impact, and that's ignoring the possibility of massive caching of common searches. It will look like normal web traffic to google, and the lambda network will result in a diversity of IP addresses, so it might never get flagged.
- thekyle 8y agoI presume you are referring to AWS Lambda in which case wouldn't the IP addresses be within the IP range used by AWS? If so, Google might have already blocked those IPs.
- mrtweetyhack 8y agoStill a monopoly. monopoly monopoly monopoly
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- angott 8y agoIt will be interesting to see how the different browser choices will be presented. If the EU commission pushes for browsers to be featured with a few lines of text and not just an icon (like they did back in the days with MSFT), it could be a significant problem for Google. Example: Mozilla would be able to advertise that Firefox provides ad-blocking, as opposed to Chrome which doesn't. This has the potential to hurt mobile advertising revenue significantly.
- minxomat 8y agoListing unique benefits was how the old msft implementation worked: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrowserChoice.eu https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrowserChoice.eu
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- bfrog 8y agoI can only read so much horse manure in one sitting, bravo google, bravo
- Mikeb85 8y agoJust an anecdote here, but I use Google and Chrome on Linux, where it's not default, as well as Android.
- DeonPenny 8y agoDoesn't this subvert googles entire reason for building Android. Shouldn't they just start charging in europe to use the software there? Like is would incentivize them to push updates for europe
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- callahad 8y agoThe cynic in me is worried that Google taking its ball and going home: if Chrome can't be the default, then nobody can. I'm excited for increased choice, but Google is starting this race from a position backed by a decade of anti-competitive licensing agreements around Android. From the press release, this move seems designed to preserve that lead by preventing other vendors from offering meaningful defaults. I'd be especially curious to hear from the Samsung Internet team, as the press release states that Google will be "asking users of existing and new Android devices" which browser they would like to use.
- billpg 8y agoHow do I get my browser on the list? (And it totally is a browser and not some keylogger and bitcoin miner with a copy of lynx on top.)