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How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger

611 points by n_t 8y ago

n_t 8y ago
It's a long article but I found it to be very enlightening. It not just teaches how to control anger and parenting but also the importance of story telling.
googlemike 8y ago
Read this as Intuit, the tax software company, scratched my head till I clicked the article. Good laugh!
- fierro 8y ago
  glad I'm not the only one
- henvic 8y ago
  lol... me too, but just because I visited their office in San Diego a couple of years ago for a meetup.
- userbinator 8y ago
  The fact that it's around the time of the year to file taxes, and anger is sometimes a part of that experience, pulls the "mental autocorrect" in that direction.
barry-cotter 8y ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/b0so4h/comment/eihcuf8 https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/b0so4h/comm... The article praises the Inuit for a "no scolding, no timeouts" form of child-rearing, talks about how "the culture views scolding — or even speaking to children in an angry voice — as inappropriate...even if the child hits you or bites you, there's no raising your voice" and quotes Inuit elders as saying that "they're upset about something, and you have to figure out what it is". It says that this is why adult Inuit have "an extraordinary ability to control their anger". I Googled some studies about Inuit to see if I could find anything that didn't fit with this narrative, and came across this article on how Inuit leaders are protesting Canada's anti-child-abuse policy, because they say it is too harsh on traditional Inuit child-rearing practices like spanking. They complain that child protective services are unfairly removing children from Inuit homes, because they don't understand that Inuit tradition permits forms of physical discipline that might not be acceptable in broader Canadian society. I also found this collection of interviews with Inuit elders where they describe how things were in the traditional old days. When asked about discipline, Elder Tipuula: "If it was a boy, it was his father’s responsibility to discipline him. If he only wanted to spank him once, then he would only spank him once. He would behave for a while, and if he started to misbehave again, the father could spank him a second time.We women took care of our daughters. Some children reached adulthood without ever needing a spanking. Some of them needed to be spanked, and would thank us when they were older for correcting them. Parents would spank children to make them aware of things they had not been paying attention to. Some children were spanked when they did not deserve it and this was bad for a child’s development. When they realized they did not deserve a spanking, they became angry. Children who deserved to be spanked grew up being thankful for the discipline they received. Children who did not deserve to be spanked grew up to become angry people." Elder Ilisapi adds: "Some of us tended to take out our frustration on our children when it was our husband who we were angry at. Even if the child had done nothing wrong, if he made one small mistake, we took out our frustration on him. If children were treated like that,they could be damaged. It was their spouse they were angry at in the first place but they took their frustration out on their child. That is not the way to treat a child. It is not good." Modern-day studies are downright appalling. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3708004/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3708004/ is studying Inuit suicides, but finds that 27.5% of the non-suicidal placebo group stated they were abused as children. goo.gl/gX4hFi says that 86% of Canadian Inuit women experience verbal abuse, and 48% experience physical abuse in the first postpartum year. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.3402/ijch.v61i2.17443 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.3402/ijch.v61i2.17443 finds that 48% of Inuit in Greenland report having been abused, about three times the Western population they compare this with. (some of these are adult abuse statistics rather than child abuse statistics, but if adult Inuit never get angry or act impulsively, why are they doing all this abusing?) To be fair, the Inuit are a very diverse population, and maybe some bands are unusually lenient parents and others are unusually strict (but the anthropologist in the article studied in northern Canada, the same region as many of the studies I'm citing). Also, the Inuit have changed a lot recently as they get influenced by European culture (but NPR did their interview with Inuit this year, who talk as if they're describing the present). I don't want to contradict an anthropologist, but I hope people keep their skepticism glasses on for articles like this one.
- taneq 8y ago
  Sounds like there's a liberal sprinkling of 'noble savage' being applied in the article. The "teaching through storytelling" thing rubs me up the wrong way, too. We yell at our kids if they deserve it, but we do our best never to lie to them. And of course, any time someone expounds on "the" way to raise or discipline children, you know they're talking through their hat, because children vary wildly in terms of how they behave and what will work with them, even within the same family. There is no one-size-fits-all approach.
  - emmanuel_1234 8y ago
    Additionally, there is a long period of time when the kid has suicidal tendencies and doesn't comprehend any language, and telling stories won't do anything to save his life. Fear, induced by having made that mistake and paying the price, or induced by elevating your voice, does seem to work, albeit imperfectly.
    - bryanrasmussen 8y ago
      I had a friend who was cohabiting with a single mom of a 4 year old. He was always quite harsh on the kid I thought, very strict, he didn't hurt him but the kid was sort of scared of him (Because my friend was like 6'6, and looked like a mountain wizard) So one time I was at the house alone with the kid. I turned my back on him for a couple minutes, he came walking into the living room from the kitchen carrying a butcher knife almost as long as his leg. I yelled at him got that knife away from him. When the mom got home I told her the story and she laughed and said 'oh Damien!' (kid's name was Damien) When I told my friend later he sort of buried his head in his hands and said something about how hard it was and he was always mean to the kid and having to yell at him because basically he was the only adult in his life that kept him in check. Probably my friend should have found a better way of handling Damien, but on the other hand some situations are more difficult than others.
      - watwut 8y ago
        So basically, boy acted like normal 4 years old and took an interesting thing into hand? And that is somehow proof that the kid is exceptionally difficult? Four years old holding knife right now is a reason to tell him to put it down or introduce consistent safety rules, but really really it is neither proof of unusual out of control behavior or something that requires instant yelling. Four years old can be taught to cut soft vegetables under close supervision. However, if you constantly yell at four years old, four years old will learn to ignore everything except yelling. Not that occasional yelling harms that kid or something. But, yelling often is more of adult emotional reaction, not a rational reaction to real acute danger.
ph0rque 8y ago
I wonder if we can improve our own behavior by telling ourselves the right stories? And what would those stories be? (One phrase that sometimes helps me avoid bad habits is telling myself: "You've been down this road. The consequences won't be good!")
- koonsolo 8y ago
  I think there are 2 main techniques in the article. The first one are stories to prevent something. These stories are completely made up, but put fear in the kids to they behave as they should. The second one is looking from a distance (or a 3rd person) at yourself. I wonder if religion falls into the first bucket. "Behave or you will go to eternal hell". Lots of people already figured out that it's all made up. What is not clear is that, although made up, it could still have a lot of benefits. The second technique is probably what meditation and NLP (Neuro-linguistic programming) do. Take a step back and look at yourself, your emotions, your behaviors, as an observer.
  - klodolph 8y ago
    NLP is pseudoscience, unfortunately. Research has failed to turn up evidence that it works, and it’s generally incompatible with our modern understanding of how the brain works.
    - orwin 8y ago
      Although it's not completely pseudoscience, in a sense that microexpressions do exist. You can't detect most of them with your bare eyes, and those you can detect (pupil dilatation) are not significative and can be caused by external factors. I heard in a skeptic podcast that the "ripple under the eyes" in case of a true smile is not fake though, its one of the few thing they got right (not the first time a pseudoscience got some part right, but this time it not just lucky).
    - koonsolo 8y ago
      I'm not an expert on NLP, and I don't know the exact claims that NLP makes, but I'm sure some of the exercises work. One for example, is conflict resolution from a past event. You had a conflict with someone, you feel treated unfairly etc. This exercise lets you go back to that situation in memory, as yourself. Next step is to go back as an observer of yourself, looking at what you felt, etc. Then you are an observer of the whole thing. And finally, you go back as the other person, trying to understand why they acted like that, trying to understand how they felt. After such a thing, a certain "wrong" situation can suddenly become way better, by understanding the other person and their drives. Understanding what other people feel, stepping in their shoes, can be very beneficial. Stepping "outside" of yourself and observing your feelings can also give a lot of insight. So that was basically what I was referring to.
newnewpdro 8y ago
In my circles it's common knowledge that what you observe in the behavior of children is an unfiltered reflection of their home environment. When kids are violent, loud, abusive, it's very likely that's what their home looks like. It's surprising to me that this is being portrayed as some kind of discovery/revelation. My father would get very frustrated and violently angry when things didn't go according to plan, particularly in the garage when repairing something under time pressure. It took me over a decade living away from that environment to completely shed some of the same behaviors I had picked up just being around it. Nowadays there's an Isaac Asimov quote I tell myself whenever such situations emerge: "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" - and I'll add "are you incompetent?"
- n_t 8y ago
  > It's surprising to me that this is being portrayed as some kind of discovery/revelation. The way I read it, discovery is not "behavior is reflection of environment" but how to create a good environment.
- ehnto 8y ago
  I was only reading Foundation an hour ago, at the part where the meaning of the quote in the book comes to a crescendo! What an excellent read.
cheschire 8y ago
I wonder how much the success of a parenting style has to do with the genetic predisposition within the children to receive the intended messages. What works for one culture that may be more genetically isolated seems potentially unpredictable when introduced into a group of differing genetic heritage.
- brazzy 8y ago
  That is not how genetics work.
emmanuel_1234 8y ago
This kind of article is inspiring, but also makes me depressed at what a shit parent I must be and all the various ways I'm screwing up with my kids head, despite trying my best, out of my own imperfections and ignorance. Scary.
- m_mueller 8y ago
  I have a 3yo myself and I think it's all a trade-off, there's no such thing as perfect parenting. Old cultures tend to land in a local optimum. That being said I'd consciously not move to an average US town as I think there's too much fear spread, it doesn't fit my own culture of giving children space/responsibility as early as possible. Depending on community reaction that can be impossible - not just in many parts of the US but also in Southern Europe for example. There tends to be much more support from the wider family there however. Another local optimum I've seen in Japan where almost everyone is incredibly well behaved but almost no-one learns to think outside the box. Eh. I say choose what you think works and try to choose a community supporting it, within the options you have.
  - wil421 8y ago
    Can you elaborate on the US fear spreading and not giving children space?
    - okal 8y ago
      I suspect it's the fact that "free-range parenting" is "a thing" rather than the default.
      - Steltek 8y ago
        While there's some psychology (parental fear of abduction by strangers), there are also significant environmental problems at play in the US that don't exist elsewhere: 1. Kids are more spread out. A suburban neighborhood is huge and fewer people are having kids. The people that have kids will have fewer of them. For kids to coagulate together for playtime, you need higher density. 2. American roads are fucking deadly. Bigger cars at faster speeds with ever less attentive drivers. Cars are by far the number one killer of children and American voters do fuck all to fix it. If we banned all cars, I'd probably let my 2 year old mostly wander around by himself until dinner. 3. Dual working parents plus shitty workplace policies mean there are just fewer eyes out there. Even in the old days, "Free Range" didn't mean Lord of the Flies. It meant the kids roamed around but there was always an adult nearby, even if not in any official capacity. A combination of 1, 2, and 3 makes for American parents structuring a kids' life around schleping them to various scheduled events and places. Even when a kid gets older, they've never developed the habits to do it for themselves.
tobiasbischoff 8y ago
td:dr: These Inuits prefer to lie to their kids and tell them questionable fairy storys. I dont know if thats any better..
dcustodio 8y ago
It's a nice story but I've seen this parenting technique applied in our western society: - "Don't do this or the police will arrest you". - "eat you yogurt or that kid over there is going to eat it". Isn't this fearmongering?
- humanrebar 8y ago
  I'll ask, "Can I have your yogurt?" Loss aversion kicks in pretty quickly. I don't think it's "fear" exactly because they can say no.
- davzie 8y ago
  I think the police example is bad. We're based in the UK and we tell our children that the police are there to help. I don't want my children to grow up scared of the police.
  - senderista 8y ago
    I do, because I don’t want them to get shot (US obviously).
mehrdadn 8y ago
> Across the board, all the moms mention one golden rule: Don't shout or yell at small children. Interesting to note, this is the exact same conclusion Louis Rossman had come to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRwuu0u3UFA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRwuu0u3UFA
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wtdata 8y ago
I was actually very interested on the approach, until I realized that it consisted on fabricating awfully violent stories to scare little children as young as 3 years old into behaving properly through fear. I am pretty sure this approach would be seen by our society as quite damaging to the children mental development.
- pasabagi 8y ago
  To be fair, kids like to be scared - and the technique seems to have produced its desired result: adults who are incredibly level headed. I wouldn't try this on my kid, just because I feel that occasionally, anger is appropriate. On the other hand, I don't expect my kid to live in the arctic, where small mistakes or momentary irrationalities can cost lives.
- Flip-per 8y ago
  Fairy tales in central Europe are equally violent. My mom refused to read or tell me those fairy tales because of that.
- akie 8y ago
  Did you ever read any fairy tales? Hansel & Gretel is about parents deliberately leaving their kids in the woods, and then a witch imprisons them, which is eventually resolved by throwing her into the fire. Little Red Riding Hood is about a wolf that eats a little girl's grandmother. Snow White only gets to meet the seven dwarfs because her mother-in-law has decided to have her killed. There are many more examples, which is to say - "our" "own" culture's children stories are not necessarily less violent.
  - ajuc 8y ago
    The difference is - the fairy tales are presented as fiction. The stories adults tell you to make you behave are presented as reality. It's the difference between reading your kids Smurfs and Bible (if you're Christian). I remember understanding the difference pretty early (and wondering why Bible seems like Smurfs but is treated differently).
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mynameishere 8y ago
Okay. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/death-suicide-rates-among-inuit-kids-soar-over-rest-of-canada/article4426600/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/death-suicide-...
gpvos 8y ago
Edit: please don't upvote this, it detracts from the discussion of the article itself. Side note: I don't mind that my earlier submission[0] didn't get traction, just happy that the article gets the attention it deserves. However, I'm curious, because the URLs are completely identical, and I thought HN then treats a submission soon after as an upvote to the earlier submission. Has this changed, or was this new post just out of the time range? Also, when I submitted it, I was surprised that the title got automatically edited, chopping off the "How". (I submitted it as "How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger", exactly as this posting, and also the title of the article.) Yet this posting has the original title. Can anyone explain that? [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19387122 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19387122
- yorwba 8y ago
  Your submission was 1 day ago, so that explains why it's not treated as a duplicate. Whether the title is shortened or not depends on how you submit it, I think. Did you use the bookmarklet?
  - gpvos 8y ago
    No, I didn't. I copy-paste the title myself. Maybe I didn't spot a copy-paste error; I didn't consciously change the title.
- kuroguro 8y ago
  Also interesting - your submission link has a rel="nofollow", this one doesn't?
- detaro 8y ago
  I think the timeout is 8 or 12 hours.
  - gpvos 8y ago
    Okay, thanks. I seem to remember this happening in the past for posts that were a few days old. I may misremember, or it could have been changed.
Flip-per 8y ago
I've been to Sri Lanka recently where 70 % of the people are Buddhists. It's a beautiful island, the people are very calm and nice to each other and to Tourists, it was a pleasure to travel around. It's a very safe place, crime and stealing is almost nonexistent. Disagreements are solved in a quite calm way. And then I got aware that it has one of the highest suicide rates worldwide. How comes? One issue might be that Sri Lankans do not talk about their feelings. The civil war ended 10 years ago, not talking about what happened very likely has bad effects on mental health. Another issue could be that hiding aggression might not be healthy either. Studies show that hiding aggression is one possible cause for depressions, which might depend on the society you are living in. (I didn't read those studies but heard them from multiple reliable sources) Being aggressive doesn't mean starting to hit somebody, it can be raising your voice and get your opinion across very clearly. I'm not sure whether a calm and self-controlled Inuit child would have an easy time in a western Kindergarten, school, or workplace.
- saiya-jin 8y ago
  Yeah, Sri Lanka for me personally is a sobering reminder that even culture/philosophy considered very peaceful can engage in worst atrocities when pushed enough. People are just people at their core, far from flawless we all crave to be. You can't see it as a tourist there (at least I couldn't, but I didn't travel to north where most bad stuff happened). But generally this ancient mindset of 'not losing the face' can only lead to misery and desperation down the path, no matter the location. It seems its slowly dying which should be a net gain for societies still harboring it
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    "Yeah, Sri Lanka for me personally is a sobering reminder that even culture/philosophy considered very peaceful can engage in worst atrocities when pushed enough" Same for Cambodia with the Khmer Rouge.
- n_t 8y ago
  I might not be able to explain properly but I think there is difference in suppressing anger and not getting angry at all. I agree with what you say about suppression but what if that emotion of anger didn't germinate at all? Latter is what this article is referring to. However, you do bring up nice point and it has expanded my understanding too.
tiku 8y ago
It must be also nice to not exert much energy on yelling and being mad in such a cold environment.
scandox 8y ago
With regard to the story-telling approach to discipline...My mother told me that if I didn't brush my teeth that small birds and lizards would come in the night and eat the sugar off my teeth, but also accidentally eat some of the enamel and eventually I would be left with blackened triangular stumps. That worked pretty well and retained surprising effectiveness even after I was absolutely clear that no such thing would happen.
- zikzak 8y ago
  It doesn't happen because you brush your teeth well. Keep it up and you'll be fine.
kentosi 8y ago
An excellent read, but my only doubt is whether this is effective because all your peers have been raised this way. Ie - If someone raises his/her child like this in our western society it might be conflicting for the child to learn how to behave like this at home, and then spend the majority of their time at school where other children behave completely differently. I certainly recall being raised to never answer back to your adults. And then I saw other kids answering back to their parents (and getting away with it) and then all that upbringing went out the window.
- tootie 8y ago
  This is probably the entire crux of their parenting style. Kids take social cues from their peers, not their parents.
  - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
    > Kids take social cues from their peers, not their parents Which makes our current system of isolating children by age group and then leaving them virtually un-attended look somewhat insane.
    - organsnyder 8y ago
      I've been amazed at how well my kids' teachers establish social norms in their classrooms, early in the school year. A single adult can be very effective at establishing an environment that promotes positive social interaction and behavior.
      - gowld 8y ago
        It takes a heroic person to achieve that in such an unnatural environment as a single-age classroom.
  - jimmy1 8y ago
    I am not sure if this isolated anecdata or not, but I watched my daughter absolutely flourish when we put her in daycare. She barely could sit up on her own when we put her in. There were some "older kids" in the class that could stand and move around while holding on to the rail. By the next week or two, she was sitting up, and attempting to stand by pulling her self up. I am convinced it is because she watched the other little ones doing it constantly. If she stayed home all day with us, I am not sure where she would have learned this from.
lilbobbytables 8y ago
Read this as "Intuit" parents... and was very confused.
- koheripbal 8y ago
  It's almost tax time... my angriest time of the year.
Kirth 8y ago
I saw this article pop up elsewhere on the web and am a bit surprised all the reactions here seem to take the article at face value because of its holistic content. And as some other people on the Internet have pointed out [0]: spanking and physical punishments seem to be a big part of Inuit child rearing [1]. In fact, modern studies about child and adult abuse show concerning figures [2] [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/b0so4h/how_inuit_parents_teach_kids_to_control_their/eihcuf8/ https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/b0so4h/how_... [1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/inuit-traditional-knowledge-committee-discusses-spanking-1.3241238 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/inuit-traditional-knowl... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3708004/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3708004/
willvk 8y ago
This is the best and simplest description I have seen of parenting. Do no get emotional. Describe, explain, reason, rationalise. Beautiful. Such timeless advice.
- koheripbal 8y ago
  Bingo. The best proven way to control anger is to train your mind to seek understanding of what's going on in those tense situations. Like anything, you need to practice training yourself at handling anger. When my kids get angry, I teach them to ask questions. "Why?!!" "Why didn't they let me play with them?" "Why does my sister always get to use my toys?!" "Why does it make me feel this way?!" "What can I do to prevent this in the future?!" The most understanding you can gain during a confrontation, the better you train your mind to react in that way rather than in our following our instincts. We are, by default, animals, and anger is part of our fight-flight response - but it's something we can reprogram with practice. ...especially if you start with a young malleable mind.
otabdeveloper1 8y ago
> With little kids, you often think they're pushing your buttons, but that's not what's going on. Maybe it's true for Inuit children, but my own kids are certainly not like that. They know all about my buttons and how to push them from early infancy.
- zild3d 8y ago
  > They know all about my buttons The point the article makes is that your response is what teaches them How do you respond when a kid pushes your button? It's only a button to push if there is a reaction
gabbygab 8y ago
It surprises me that so many here are praising or even envying inuit parents and their their child raising habits when suicide rates, depression and substance abuse amongs inuits and their children are so high? https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/inuit-suicidal-thoughts-statscan-1.3410915 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/inuit-suicidal-thoughts... Maybe NPRs staff should have look at their own article. https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/04/21/474847921/the-arctic-suicides-its-not-the-dark-that-kills-you https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/04/21/4748479... I wish we'd stop fetishizing cultures and start giving people a more realistic and broad perspective of cultures, even if it doesn't align with our agenda. The grass isn't always greener on the side. Also, we have been teaching kids to "control their anger" for decades now. I wonder if that has anything to do with the rising suicide rates in the US.
- deleted 8y ago
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Jemm 8y ago
I was on board with the article until they mentioned checking for ear wax to see if a child is listening, and telling stories of special child eating monsters. In a society that relies on the group for survival, one can imagine that a child learns pretty quickly that they have to get along or they will perish. What the story does not tell us is what happens to children with behavioural or psychological issues.
mothsonasloth 8y ago
The article goes into great detail about the social aspect and culture but I wonder if there is an environmental aspect too. In such a hostile environment anger and violence would be a threat to the Inuit tribes
sinuhe69 8y ago
I believe telling small children scary stories so they would refrain from doing something particular damaging is quite common among many cultures. Vietnamese in the old days for example were doing exactly the same. The problem is however that people can easily abuse this technique to manipulate children to get whatever they want. And when children once grow older or are particularly smart, they would mistrust it and everything adults had told them, clearly more damaging than beneficial. Ghosts story in one’s childhood was very common in Vietnam and no doubt they have contributed much to the widespread superstition and belief in supernatural things in Vietnam. Which is supposedly no problem for the Inuits but undeniably very problematic for any modern economy. Using story telling and personification to teach children empathy is another common technique. In general I find them quite effective and would recommend them unconditionally if there is no problem with the time constraint modern life must be facing. In a culture where a time span of days have not much meaning, I guest all people can sit down, wait for the child to calm itself and then talk and tell stories to teach them. However it is sometimes almost impossible or at least very very hard to wait for a naughty, tantrum throwing child to calm itself down in a modern society. I think of the situation in a supermarket where a mother has to obey certain rules and at the same time has to finish the shopping to make supper on time or in a packed classroom where teachers has only 45 minutes to achieve something or on an airport/airplane. Certainly, yelling at small children or even spanking them is not optimal and often not very helpful but anger is not the evil per se either. The key is to choose wisely how to act on this particular feeling. Suppressing or even disguising it under a friendly facade is not helpful, often even damaging for one’s mental health and relationships.
- alehul 8y ago
  Tangentially related here, but I think it's another interesting dichotomy of children across cultures (and how parents deal with them). I can't remember where from, but I heard a fascinating take on how countries in Europe, with predatory animals and other dangers outside the village, would cultivate myths of things like werewolves, vampires, and other beasts that would kill/maul/bite you. This prevented children from wandering too far. Meanwhile, in Japan (where there's very few predators to be afraid of), the myths are much more wholesome [1]. There's spirits that wash beans, lick oil, follow you around, and so forth, but few/no myths of the dangerous creatures you'd find documented in Europe. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_legendary_creatures_from_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_legendary_creatures_fr...
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cabaalis 8y ago
> The mom picked up a pebble and said, "'Hit me! Go on. Hit me harder,'" Briggs remembered. The boy threw the rock at his mother, and she exclaimed, "Ooooww. That hurts!" My son had a tremendously difficult time in preschool with his behavior. One of the ways we were taught by the teachers to mitigate this is that we use a method similar to this. When he would bite, kick, or hit, we would greatly overreact in pain or sadness to discourage him from doing it--to teach him that those things hurt people. That helped. But his behavior continued to be a significant problem despite various professionals' best methods until the pediatrician began treating him for ADHD. Then we had a complete and total 180. I wonder how these people would deal with a situation like that? Would we have gotten a better outcome and not had to go a medical route?
- nradov 8y ago
  Dog trainers recommend doing the same thing with puppies to train them not to bite you.
  - penagwin 8y ago
    Same with kittens. Cats have full control of their claws, a properly socialized cat will rarely accidentally scratch you (although if they get too excited playing or don't recognize it's you - feet under covers - or are kneeding they might, but not on purpose). They usually learn this from interacting with other kittens in the litter, but the same concept applies to help train them.
aerophilic 8y ago
One thing that I know many parents realize is that our kids are incredible “sponges”, they really do look to you as to handle situations. It follows then teaching/modeling how to calm is so important. This also however reminds me how it is also the reason why it isn’t bad to “disagree” in front of the kids (Assuming you and your significant other can do so constructively) [1]. It is the idea of showing them how you work through conflict, and resolve it in a meaningful way. If you don’t show them how the conflicts get resolved, how will they ever learn? More importantly how will they handle their own conflicts in productive way? [1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/peaceful-parents-happy-kids/201902/how-do-damage-control-when-you-fight-in-front-your-kid https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/peaceful-parents-hap...
gfs78 8y ago
Inuit and suicide: From wikipedia: Among Inuit it is 6 to 11 times higher than the general population. By 2007 in a population of 30,000 that is mainly Inuit, "40 per cent of deaths investigated by the coroner's office were suicides. Many of the 222 suicide victims were young, Inuit and male." The article (written by women about the finding of some other woman) is a praise to the way females handle overt aggression, which is basically to shun it off (in this case, calmly). Not saying that war-machine macho raising is a reasonable alternative, but male emasculation is not proving to be that useful either, as you can see in the massive shooting spreads, young male suicide rates, and the general passive-agressive tone of most male interactions these days. Aggression should always be acted upon, just not in a retarded way. BTW: I like answers where I'm literally given "the benefit of doubt". No, passive aggression is not a problem. At all..
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
  You're conflating "the male experience" with " overt aggression", which I don't believe is true. Stoicism is incredibly "manly" (look at a caricature like Ron Swanson), but is the opposite of acting aggressively. Most native american populations are experiencing similar high suicide rates, and they don't all share this non-aggression ethos.
  - zebrafish 8y ago
    Disagree with you. Parent seems to be conflating the modern male experience with anti-sensitivity. Expression of all emotions by males should be encouraged. I think the idolization of stoicism is detrimental to men's health. Men should be able to cry, be angry, express emotions within reasonable bounds. Bottling them up often leads to mental health problems later.
    - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
      > Aggression should always be acted upon, just not in a retarded way. I think you're being optimistic. Parent doesn't mention any emotion besides aggression. No line was drawn between men shooting up schools and men not being able to cry, it was totally focused on aggression. They point out that male-emasculation is leading to shootings, not repression of all emotions - I mean, isn't the expression of crying "emasculating"? I don't see anything but aggression in the parent comment.
dnprock 8y ago
I teach my children boxing. Get a pair of gloves and pads from Amazon. I think it has many benefits: improving confidence, controlling anger. It does take patience. Not every kid is physically made to fight. Also, parents need to learn about safety.
CNJ7654 8y ago
"Traditionally, the Inuit saw yelling at a small child as demeaning. It's as if the adult is having a tantrum; it's basically stooping to the level of the child, Briggs documented." This article is full of interesting insights, but this one stands out
gumby 8y ago
> "no timeouts" Interesting that the presumption of the author is that the timeout is a punishment rather than a way to get the child to "reset" whatever overstimulation is causing a problem.
HNLurker2 8y ago
How can I not be angry as a teen? (depending on circumstances and truama as a child and childhood). "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger" I am mad jealous of children whose parents made them do outdoor activies. Heck I wish I wasn't even born (can't suffer again neck fracture, unless a gun does the job I live on). I am mad jealous at other rich spoiled kids. Heck I am mad at useless bullshit jobs. Heck I am mad at meaningless cosmological nihilism that we all try to avoid. Heck I am mad for being a nobody without any social life, hobbies and even failing at exams. I do not know if anger helps you fight your circhmstanced or is just detrimental?
- downrightmike 8y ago
  I realized that I'm going to live, it isn't hard, I keep waking up day after day. When I focussed on the short term, life was hard, super hard. But then I realized If I focus on the long term, things got easier. It may sound strange, but I plan on living until 140. May be unrealistic, maybe not, but I can plan better for that, because the day to day is hectic. It helped me process past all the shit and problems today are limited by their time, and the more time passes, the more I can let them go. I don't care about problems from 10 years ago, and in 10 years, problems now won't matter. Just have to keep setting my self up to move forward, even if it is only a little bit. And every two steps back don't matter in the long term. This is all about how you let things affect you, all you can do is try to not let them hit you too hard today.
- ehsanu1 8y ago
  I do not know if anger helps you fight your circhmstanced or is just detrimental? I think that depends on how you react to that anger. Generally there is a core need that is underlying that anger. Once that core need is identified, it may be that the anger turns into a different emotion, and will also start to provide avenues for dealing with that need. Eg. if the anger is related to failing at exams, on reflection it may be that you determine that this is affecting you because it may affect your future career prospects, ie your need is to secure your financial future. Or perhaps it is due to another need. The underlying emotion would then be perhaps fear or anxiousness (or it may be something else). Anger is the unrealized version of this emotion. Once you have identified the underlying needs and emotions, that will start you on the path to fulfilling those needs.
hjk05 8y ago
So the moral is, instead of acting out at children in the moment, instead just stay calm and instil them with a mortal fear of the mundane. I’m not sure how much I like that last part, and whether I feel little kids should be fearing they’ll get decapitated if they forget to wear their hats. That might make them less prone to emotional outbursts as adults, but then again so does a lobotomy and electrotheorepy, that doesn’t mean it’s a great idea. I do however love the way this article frames parenting and culture and ties inputs to outputs in parenting. I wonder how well it holds up in practice, if you can say measssure the emotional responses of a hundred adults and use that to accurately estimate if they where scolded as children?
resalisbury 8y ago
What is the evidence that this works? Do inuit communities have lower rates of domestic violence, violent crime etc? Are their other ways of measuring or defining "success"? I'm reminded of the research for " Becoming a Man" (BAM) small groups of adolescents males get together and share stories about times they were angry. There have been several randomized controlled trials that show this reduces juvenile crime rates. And it's a cheap intervention to run. Seems like it shares characteristics around story telling, self reflection and acting like a grown up. https://urbanlabs.uchicago.edu/projects/becoming-a-man https://urbanlabs.uchicago.edu/projects/becoming-a-man
astrostl 8y ago
Totally with them up to the lying thing.
rdmcgregor 8y ago
That's an interesting read. It's nice to see broader perspectives on some of these topics.

611 points by n_t 8y ago

n_t 8y ago

It's a long article but I found it to be very enlightening. It not just teaches how to control anger and parenting but also the importance of story telling.

googlemike 8y ago

Read this as Intuit, the tax software company, scratched my head till I clicked the article. Good laugh!

fierro 8y ago
glad I'm not the only one
henvic 8y ago
lol... me too, but just because I visited their office in San Diego a couple of years ago for a meetup.
userbinator 8y ago
The fact that it's around the time of the year to file taxes, and anger is sometimes a part of that experience, pulls the "mental autocorrect" in that direction.

barry-cotter 8y ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/b0so4h/comment/eihcuf8 https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/b0so4h/comm... The article praises the Inuit for a "no scolding, no timeouts" form of child-rearing, talks about how "the culture views scolding — or even speaking to children in an angry voice — as inappropriate...even if the child hits you or bites you, there's no raising your voice" and quotes Inuit elders as saying that "they're upset about something, and you have to figure out what it is". It says that this is why adult Inuit have "an extraordinary ability to control their anger". I Googled some studies about Inuit to see if I could find anything that didn't fit with this narrative, and came across this article on how Inuit leaders are protesting Canada's anti-child-abuse policy, because they say it is too harsh on traditional Inuit child-rearing practices like spanking. They complain that child protective services are unfairly removing children from Inuit homes, because they don't understand that Inuit tradition permits forms of physical discipline that might not be acceptable in broader Canadian society. I also found this collection of interviews with Inuit elders where they describe how things were in the traditional old days. When asked about discipline, Elder Tipuula: "If it was a boy, it was his father’s responsibility to discipline him. If he only wanted to spank him once, then he would only spank him once. He would behave for a while, and if he started to misbehave again, the father could spank him a second time.We women took care of our daughters. Some children reached adulthood without ever needing a spanking. Some of them needed to be spanked, and would thank us when they were older for correcting them. Parents would spank children to make them aware of things they had not been paying attention to. Some children were spanked when they did not deserve it and this was bad for a child’s development. When they realized they did not deserve a spanking, they became angry. Children who deserved to be spanked grew up being thankful for the discipline they received. Children who did not deserve to be spanked grew up to become angry people." Elder Ilisapi adds: "Some of us tended to take out our frustration on our children when it was our husband who we were angry at. Even if the child had done nothing wrong, if he made one small mistake, we took out our frustration on him. If children were treated like that,they could be damaged. It was their spouse they were angry at in the first place but they took their frustration out on their child. That is not the way to treat a child. It is not good." Modern-day studies are downright appalling. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3708004/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3708004/ is studying Inuit suicides, but finds that 27.5% of the non-suicidal placebo group stated they were abused as children. goo.gl/gX4hFi says that 86% of Canadian Inuit women experience verbal abuse, and 48% experience physical abuse in the first postpartum year. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.3402/ijch.v61i2.17443 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.3402/ijch.v61i2.17443 finds that 48% of Inuit in Greenland report having been abused, about three times the Western population they compare this with. (some of these are adult abuse statistics rather than child abuse statistics, but if adult Inuit never get angry or act impulsively, why are they doing all this abusing?) To be fair, the Inuit are a very diverse population, and maybe some bands are unusually lenient parents and others are unusually strict (but the anthropologist in the article studied in northern Canada, the same region as many of the studies I'm citing). Also, the Inuit have changed a lot recently as they get influenced by European culture (but NPR did their interview with Inuit this year, who talk as if they're describing the present). I don't want to contradict an anthropologist, but I hope people keep their skepticism glasses on for articles like this one.

taneq 8y ago
Sounds like there's a liberal sprinkling of 'noble savage' being applied in the article. The "teaching through storytelling" thing rubs me up the wrong way, too. We yell at our kids if they deserve it, but we do our best never to lie to them. And of course, any time someone expounds on "the" way to raise or discipline children, you know they're talking through their hat, because children vary wildly in terms of how they behave and what will work with them, even within the same family. There is no one-size-fits-all approach.
- emmanuel_1234 8y ago
  Additionally, there is a long period of time when the kid has suicidal tendencies and doesn't comprehend any language, and telling stories won't do anything to save his life. Fear, induced by having made that mistake and paying the price, or induced by elevating your voice, does seem to work, albeit imperfectly.
  - bryanrasmussen 8y ago
    I had a friend who was cohabiting with a single mom of a 4 year old. He was always quite harsh on the kid I thought, very strict, he didn't hurt him but the kid was sort of scared of him (Because my friend was like 6'6, and looked like a mountain wizard) So one time I was at the house alone with the kid. I turned my back on him for a couple minutes, he came walking into the living room from the kitchen carrying a butcher knife almost as long as his leg. I yelled at him got that knife away from him. When the mom got home I told her the story and she laughed and said 'oh Damien!' (kid's name was Damien) When I told my friend later he sort of buried his head in his hands and said something about how hard it was and he was always mean to the kid and having to yell at him because basically he was the only adult in his life that kept him in check. Probably my friend should have found a better way of handling Damien, but on the other hand some situations are more difficult than others.
    - watwut 8y ago
      So basically, boy acted like normal 4 years old and took an interesting thing into hand? And that is somehow proof that the kid is exceptionally difficult? Four years old holding knife right now is a reason to tell him to put it down or introduce consistent safety rules, but really really it is neither proof of unusual out of control behavior or something that requires instant yelling. Four years old can be taught to cut soft vegetables under close supervision. However, if you constantly yell at four years old, four years old will learn to ignore everything except yelling. Not that occasional yelling harms that kid or something. But, yelling often is more of adult emotional reaction, not a rational reaction to real acute danger.

ph0rque 8y ago

I wonder if we can improve our own behavior by telling ourselves the right stories? And what would those stories be? (One phrase that sometimes helps me avoid bad habits is telling myself: "You've been down this road. The consequences won't be good!")

koonsolo 8y ago
I think there are 2 main techniques in the article. The first one are stories to prevent something. These stories are completely made up, but put fear in the kids to they behave as they should. The second one is looking from a distance (or a 3rd person) at yourself. I wonder if religion falls into the first bucket. "Behave or you will go to eternal hell". Lots of people already figured out that it's all made up. What is not clear is that, although made up, it could still have a lot of benefits. The second technique is probably what meditation and NLP (Neuro-linguistic programming) do. Take a step back and look at yourself, your emotions, your behaviors, as an observer.
- klodolph 8y ago
  NLP is pseudoscience, unfortunately. Research has failed to turn up evidence that it works, and it’s generally incompatible with our modern understanding of how the brain works.
  - orwin 8y ago
    Although it's not completely pseudoscience, in a sense that microexpressions do exist. You can't detect most of them with your bare eyes, and those you can detect (pupil dilatation) are not significative and can be caused by external factors. I heard in a skeptic podcast that the "ripple under the eyes" in case of a true smile is not fake though, its one of the few thing they got right (not the first time a pseudoscience got some part right, but this time it not just lucky).
  - koonsolo 8y ago
    I'm not an expert on NLP, and I don't know the exact claims that NLP makes, but I'm sure some of the exercises work. One for example, is conflict resolution from a past event. You had a conflict with someone, you feel treated unfairly etc. This exercise lets you go back to that situation in memory, as yourself. Next step is to go back as an observer of yourself, looking at what you felt, etc. Then you are an observer of the whole thing. And finally, you go back as the other person, trying to understand why they acted like that, trying to understand how they felt. After such a thing, a certain "wrong" situation can suddenly become way better, by understanding the other person and their drives. Understanding what other people feel, stepping in their shoes, can be very beneficial. Stepping "outside" of yourself and observing your feelings can also give a lot of insight. So that was basically what I was referring to.

newnewpdro 8y ago

In my circles it's common knowledge that what you observe in the behavior of children is an unfiltered reflection of their home environment. When kids are violent, loud, abusive, it's very likely that's what their home looks like. It's surprising to me that this is being portrayed as some kind of discovery/revelation. My father would get very frustrated and violently angry when things didn't go according to plan, particularly in the garage when repairing something under time pressure. It took me over a decade living away from that environment to completely shed some of the same behaviors I had picked up just being around it. Nowadays there's an Isaac Asimov quote I tell myself whenever such situations emerge: "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" - and I'll add "are you incompetent?"

n_t 8y ago
> It's surprising to me that this is being portrayed as some kind of discovery/revelation. The way I read it, discovery is not "behavior is reflection of environment" but how to create a good environment.
ehnto 8y ago
I was only reading Foundation an hour ago, at the part where the meaning of the quote in the book comes to a crescendo! What an excellent read.

cheschire 8y ago

I wonder how much the success of a parenting style has to do with the genetic predisposition within the children to receive the intended messages. What works for one culture that may be more genetically isolated seems potentially unpredictable when introduced into a group of differing genetic heritage.

brazzy 8y ago
That is not how genetics work.

emmanuel_1234 8y ago

This kind of article is inspiring, but also makes me depressed at what a shit parent I must be and all the various ways I'm screwing up with my kids head, despite trying my best, out of my own imperfections and ignorance. Scary.

m_mueller 8y ago
I have a 3yo myself and I think it's all a trade-off, there's no such thing as perfect parenting. Old cultures tend to land in a local optimum. That being said I'd consciously not move to an average US town as I think there's too much fear spread, it doesn't fit my own culture of giving children space/responsibility as early as possible. Depending on community reaction that can be impossible - not just in many parts of the US but also in Southern Europe for example. There tends to be much more support from the wider family there however. Another local optimum I've seen in Japan where almost everyone is incredibly well behaved but almost no-one learns to think outside the box. Eh. I say choose what you think works and try to choose a community supporting it, within the options you have.
- wil421 8y ago
  Can you elaborate on the US fear spreading and not giving children space?
  - okal 8y ago
    I suspect it's the fact that "free-range parenting" is "a thing" rather than the default.
    - Steltek 8y ago
      While there's some psychology (parental fear of abduction by strangers), there are also significant environmental problems at play in the US that don't exist elsewhere: 1. Kids are more spread out. A suburban neighborhood is huge and fewer people are having kids. The people that have kids will have fewer of them. For kids to coagulate together for playtime, you need higher density. 2. American roads are fucking deadly. Bigger cars at faster speeds with ever less attentive drivers. Cars are by far the number one killer of children and American voters do fuck all to fix it. If we banned all cars, I'd probably let my 2 year old mostly wander around by himself until dinner. 3. Dual working parents plus shitty workplace policies mean there are just fewer eyes out there. Even in the old days, "Free Range" didn't mean Lord of the Flies. It meant the kids roamed around but there was always an adult nearby, even if not in any official capacity. A combination of 1, 2, and 3 makes for American parents structuring a kids' life around schleping them to various scheduled events and places. Even when a kid gets older, they've never developed the habits to do it for themselves.

tobiasbischoff 8y ago

td:dr: These Inuits prefer to lie to their kids and tell them questionable fairy storys. I dont know if thats any better..

dcustodio 8y ago

It's a nice story but I've seen this parenting technique applied in our western society: - "Don't do this or the police will arrest you". - "eat you yogurt or that kid over there is going to eat it". Isn't this fearmongering?

humanrebar 8y ago
I'll ask, "Can I have your yogurt?" Loss aversion kicks in pretty quickly. I don't think it's "fear" exactly because they can say no.
davzie 8y ago
I think the police example is bad. We're based in the UK and we tell our children that the police are there to help. I don't want my children to grow up scared of the police.
- senderista 8y ago
  I do, because I don’t want them to get shot (US obviously).

mehrdadn 8y ago

> Across the board, all the moms mention one golden rule: Don't shout or yell at small children. Interesting to note, this is the exact same conclusion Louis Rossman had come to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRwuu0u3UFA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRwuu0u3UFA

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

wtdata 8y ago

I was actually very interested on the approach, until I realized that it consisted on fabricating awfully violent stories to scare little children as young as 3 years old into behaving properly through fear. I am pretty sure this approach would be seen by our society as quite damaging to the children mental development.

pasabagi 8y ago
To be fair, kids like to be scared - and the technique seems to have produced its desired result: adults who are incredibly level headed. I wouldn't try this on my kid, just because I feel that occasionally, anger is appropriate. On the other hand, I don't expect my kid to live in the arctic, where small mistakes or momentary irrationalities can cost lives.
Flip-per 8y ago
Fairy tales in central Europe are equally violent. My mom refused to read or tell me those fairy tales because of that.
akie 8y ago
Did you ever read any fairy tales? Hansel & Gretel is about parents deliberately leaving their kids in the woods, and then a witch imprisons them, which is eventually resolved by throwing her into the fire. Little Red Riding Hood is about a wolf that eats a little girl's grandmother. Snow White only gets to meet the seven dwarfs because her mother-in-law has decided to have her killed. There are many more examples, which is to say - "our" "own" culture's children stories are not necessarily less violent.
- ajuc 8y ago
  The difference is - the fairy tales are presented as fiction. The stories adults tell you to make you behave are presented as reality. It's the difference between reading your kids Smurfs and Bible (if you're Christian). I remember understanding the difference pretty early (and wondering why Bible seems like Smurfs but is treated differently).
- deleted 8y ago

mynameishere 8y ago

Okay. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/death-suicide-rates-among-inuit-kids-soar-over-rest-of-canada/article4426600/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/death-suicide-...

gpvos 8y ago

Edit: please don't upvote this, it detracts from the discussion of the article itself. Side note: I don't mind that my earlier submission[0] didn't get traction, just happy that the article gets the attention it deserves. However, I'm curious, because the URLs are completely identical, and I thought HN then treats a submission soon after as an upvote to the earlier submission. Has this changed, or was this new post just out of the time range? Also, when I submitted it, I was surprised that the title got automatically edited, chopping off the "How". (I submitted it as "How Inuit parents teach kids to control their anger", exactly as this posting, and also the title of the article.) Yet this posting has the original title. Can anyone explain that? [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19387122 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19387122

yorwba 8y ago
Your submission was 1 day ago, so that explains why it's not treated as a duplicate. Whether the title is shortened or not depends on how you submit it, I think. Did you use the bookmarklet?
- gpvos 8y ago
  No, I didn't. I copy-paste the title myself. Maybe I didn't spot a copy-paste error; I didn't consciously change the title.
kuroguro 8y ago
Also interesting - your submission link has a rel="nofollow", this one doesn't?
detaro 8y ago
I think the timeout is 8 or 12 hours.
- gpvos 8y ago
  Okay, thanks. I seem to remember this happening in the past for posts that were a few days old. I may misremember, or it could have been changed.

Flip-per 8y ago

I've been to Sri Lanka recently where 70 % of the people are Buddhists. It's a beautiful island, the people are very calm and nice to each other and to Tourists, it was a pleasure to travel around. It's a very safe place, crime and stealing is almost nonexistent. Disagreements are solved in a quite calm way. And then I got aware that it has one of the highest suicide rates worldwide. How comes? One issue might be that Sri Lankans do not talk about their feelings. The civil war ended 10 years ago, not talking about what happened very likely has bad effects on mental health. Another issue could be that hiding aggression might not be healthy either. Studies show that hiding aggression is one possible cause for depressions, which might depend on the society you are living in. (I didn't read those studies but heard them from multiple reliable sources) Being aggressive doesn't mean starting to hit somebody, it can be raising your voice and get your opinion across very clearly. I'm not sure whether a calm and self-controlled Inuit child would have an easy time in a western Kindergarten, school, or workplace.

saiya-jin 8y ago
Yeah, Sri Lanka for me personally is a sobering reminder that even culture/philosophy considered very peaceful can engage in worst atrocities when pushed enough. People are just people at their core, far from flawless we all crave to be. You can't see it as a tourist there (at least I couldn't, but I didn't travel to north where most bad stuff happened). But generally this ancient mindset of 'not losing the face' can only lead to misery and desperation down the path, no matter the location. It seems its slowly dying which should be a net gain for societies still harboring it
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  "Yeah, Sri Lanka for me personally is a sobering reminder that even culture/philosophy considered very peaceful can engage in worst atrocities when pushed enough" Same for Cambodia with the Khmer Rouge.
n_t 8y ago
I might not be able to explain properly but I think there is difference in suppressing anger and not getting angry at all. I agree with what you say about suppression but what if that emotion of anger didn't germinate at all? Latter is what this article is referring to. However, you do bring up nice point and it has expanded my understanding too.

tiku 8y ago

It must be also nice to not exert much energy on yelling and being mad in such a cold environment.

scandox 8y ago

With regard to the story-telling approach to discipline...My mother told me that if I didn't brush my teeth that small birds and lizards would come in the night and eat the sugar off my teeth, but also accidentally eat some of the enamel and eventually I would be left with blackened triangular stumps. That worked pretty well and retained surprising effectiveness even after I was absolutely clear that no such thing would happen.

zikzak 8y ago
It doesn't happen because you brush your teeth well. Keep it up and you'll be fine.

kentosi 8y ago

An excellent read, but my only doubt is whether this is effective because all your peers have been raised this way. Ie - If someone raises his/her child like this in our western society it might be conflicting for the child to learn how to behave like this at home, and then spend the majority of their time at school where other children behave completely differently. I certainly recall being raised to never answer back to your adults. And then I saw other kids answering back to their parents (and getting away with it) and then all that upbringing went out the window.

tootie 8y ago
This is probably the entire crux of their parenting style. Kids take social cues from their peers, not their parents.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > Kids take social cues from their peers, not their parents Which makes our current system of isolating children by age group and then leaving them virtually un-attended look somewhat insane.
  - organsnyder 8y ago
    I've been amazed at how well my kids' teachers establish social norms in their classrooms, early in the school year. A single adult can be very effective at establishing an environment that promotes positive social interaction and behavior.
    - gowld 8y ago
      It takes a heroic person to achieve that in such an unnatural environment as a single-age classroom.
- jimmy1 8y ago
  I am not sure if this isolated anecdata or not, but I watched my daughter absolutely flourish when we put her in daycare. She barely could sit up on her own when we put her in. There were some "older kids" in the class that could stand and move around while holding on to the rail. By the next week or two, she was sitting up, and attempting to stand by pulling her self up. I am convinced it is because she watched the other little ones doing it constantly. If she stayed home all day with us, I am not sure where she would have learned this from.

lilbobbytables 8y ago

Read this as "Intuit" parents... and was very confused.

koheripbal 8y ago
It's almost tax time... my angriest time of the year.

Kirth 8y ago

I saw this article pop up elsewhere on the web and am a bit surprised all the reactions here seem to take the article at face value because of its holistic content. And as some other people on the Internet have pointed out [0]: spanking and physical punishments seem to be a big part of Inuit child rearing [1]. In fact, modern studies about child and adult abuse show concerning figures [2] [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/b0so4h/how_inuit_parents_teach_kids_to_control_their/eihcuf8/ https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/b0so4h/how_... [1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/inuit-traditional-knowledge-committee-discusses-spanking-1.3241238 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/inuit-traditional-knowl... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3708004/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3708004/

willvk 8y ago

This is the best and simplest description I have seen of parenting. Do no get emotional. Describe, explain, reason, rationalise. Beautiful. Such timeless advice.

koheripbal 8y ago
Bingo. The best proven way to control anger is to train your mind to seek understanding of what's going on in those tense situations. Like anything, you need to practice training yourself at handling anger. When my kids get angry, I teach them to ask questions. "Why?!!" "Why didn't they let me play with them?" "Why does my sister always get to use my toys?!" "Why does it make me feel this way?!" "What can I do to prevent this in the future?!" The most understanding you can gain during a confrontation, the better you train your mind to react in that way rather than in our following our instincts. We are, by default, animals, and anger is part of our fight-flight response - but it's something we can reprogram with practice. ...especially if you start with a young malleable mind.

otabdeveloper1 8y ago

> With little kids, you often think they're pushing your buttons, but that's not what's going on. Maybe it's true for Inuit children, but my own kids are certainly not like that. They know all about my buttons and how to push them from early infancy.

zild3d 8y ago
> They know all about my buttons The point the article makes is that your response is what teaches them How do you respond when a kid pushes your button? It's only a button to push if there is a reaction

gabbygab 8y ago

It surprises me that so many here are praising or even envying inuit parents and their their child raising habits when suicide rates, depression and substance abuse amongs inuits and their children are so high? https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/inuit-suicidal-thoughts-statscan-1.3410915 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/inuit-suicidal-thoughts... Maybe NPRs staff should have look at their own article. https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/04/21/474847921/the-arctic-suicides-its-not-the-dark-that-kills-you https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/04/21/4748479... I wish we'd stop fetishizing cultures and start giving people a more realistic and broad perspective of cultures, even if it doesn't align with our agenda. The grass isn't always greener on the side. Also, we have been teaching kids to "control their anger" for decades now. I wonder if that has anything to do with the rising suicide rates in the US.

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Jemm 8y ago

I was on board with the article until they mentioned checking for ear wax to see if a child is listening, and telling stories of special child eating monsters. In a society that relies on the group for survival, one can imagine that a child learns pretty quickly that they have to get along or they will perish. What the story does not tell us is what happens to children with behavioural or psychological issues.

mothsonasloth 8y ago

The article goes into great detail about the social aspect and culture but I wonder if there is an environmental aspect too. In such a hostile environment anger and violence would be a threat to the Inuit tribes

sinuhe69 8y ago

I believe telling small children scary stories so they would refrain from doing something particular damaging is quite common among many cultures. Vietnamese in the old days for example were doing exactly the same. The problem is however that people can easily abuse this technique to manipulate children to get whatever they want. And when children once grow older or are particularly smart, they would mistrust it and everything adults had told them, clearly more damaging than beneficial. Ghosts story in one’s childhood was very common in Vietnam and no doubt they have contributed much to the widespread superstition and belief in supernatural things in Vietnam. Which is supposedly no problem for the Inuits but undeniably very problematic for any modern economy. Using story telling and personification to teach children empathy is another common technique. In general I find them quite effective and would recommend them unconditionally if there is no problem with the time constraint modern life must be facing. In a culture where a time span of days have not much meaning, I guest all people can sit down, wait for the child to calm itself and then talk and tell stories to teach them. However it is sometimes almost impossible or at least very very hard to wait for a naughty, tantrum throwing child to calm itself down in a modern society. I think of the situation in a supermarket where a mother has to obey certain rules and at the same time has to finish the shopping to make supper on time or in a packed classroom where teachers has only 45 minutes to achieve something or on an airport/airplane. Certainly, yelling at small children or even spanking them is not optimal and often not very helpful but anger is not the evil per se either. The key is to choose wisely how to act on this particular feeling. Suppressing or even disguising it under a friendly facade is not helpful, often even damaging for one’s mental health and relationships.

alehul 8y ago
Tangentially related here, but I think it's another interesting dichotomy of children across cultures (and how parents deal with them). I can't remember where from, but I heard a fascinating take on how countries in Europe, with predatory animals and other dangers outside the village, would cultivate myths of things like werewolves, vampires, and other beasts that would kill/maul/bite you. This prevented children from wandering too far. Meanwhile, in Japan (where there's very few predators to be afraid of), the myths are much more wholesome [1]. There's spirits that wash beans, lick oil, follow you around, and so forth, but few/no myths of the dangerous creatures you'd find documented in Europe. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_legendary_creatures_from_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_legendary_creatures_fr...

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cabaalis 8y ago

> The mom picked up a pebble and said, "'Hit me! Go on. Hit me harder,'" Briggs remembered. The boy threw the rock at his mother, and she exclaimed, "Ooooww. That hurts!" My son had a tremendously difficult time in preschool with his behavior. One of the ways we were taught by the teachers to mitigate this is that we use a method similar to this. When he would bite, kick, or hit, we would greatly overreact in pain or sadness to discourage him from doing it--to teach him that those things hurt people. That helped. But his behavior continued to be a significant problem despite various professionals' best methods until the pediatrician began treating him for ADHD. Then we had a complete and total 180. I wonder how these people would deal with a situation like that? Would we have gotten a better outcome and not had to go a medical route?

nradov 8y ago
Dog trainers recommend doing the same thing with puppies to train them not to bite you.
- penagwin 8y ago
  Same with kittens. Cats have full control of their claws, a properly socialized cat will rarely accidentally scratch you (although if they get too excited playing or don't recognize it's you - feet under covers - or are kneeding they might, but not on purpose). They usually learn this from interacting with other kittens in the litter, but the same concept applies to help train them.

aerophilic 8y ago

One thing that I know many parents realize is that our kids are incredible “sponges”, they really do look to you as to handle situations. It follows then teaching/modeling how to calm is so important. This also however reminds me how it is also the reason why it isn’t bad to “disagree” in front of the kids (Assuming you and your significant other can do so constructively) [1]. It is the idea of showing them how you work through conflict, and resolve it in a meaningful way. If you don’t show them how the conflicts get resolved, how will they ever learn? More importantly how will they handle their own conflicts in productive way? [1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/peaceful-parents-happy-kids/201902/how-do-damage-control-when-you-fight-in-front-your-kid https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/peaceful-parents-hap...

gfs78 8y ago

Inuit and suicide: From wikipedia: Among Inuit it is 6 to 11 times higher than the general population. By 2007 in a population of 30,000 that is mainly Inuit, "40 per cent of deaths investigated by the coroner's office were suicides. Many of the 222 suicide victims were young, Inuit and male." The article (written by women about the finding of some other woman) is a praise to the way females handle overt aggression, which is basically to shun it off (in this case, calmly). Not saying that war-machine macho raising is a reasonable alternative, but male emasculation is not proving to be that useful either, as you can see in the massive shooting spreads, young male suicide rates, and the general passive-agressive tone of most male interactions these days. Aggression should always be acted upon, just not in a retarded way. BTW: I like answers where I'm literally given "the benefit of doubt". No, passive aggression is not a problem. At all..

SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
You're conflating "the male experience" with " overt aggression", which I don't believe is true. Stoicism is incredibly "manly" (look at a caricature like Ron Swanson), but is the opposite of acting aggressively. Most native american populations are experiencing similar high suicide rates, and they don't all share this non-aggression ethos.
- zebrafish 8y ago
  Disagree with you. Parent seems to be conflating the modern male experience with anti-sensitivity. Expression of all emotions by males should be encouraged. I think the idolization of stoicism is detrimental to men's health. Men should be able to cry, be angry, express emotions within reasonable bounds. Bottling them up often leads to mental health problems later.
  - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
    > Aggression should always be acted upon, just not in a retarded way. I think you're being optimistic. Parent doesn't mention any emotion besides aggression. No line was drawn between men shooting up schools and men not being able to cry, it was totally focused on aggression. They point out that male-emasculation is leading to shootings, not repression of all emotions - I mean, isn't the expression of crying "emasculating"? I don't see anything but aggression in the parent comment.

dnprock 8y ago

I teach my children boxing. Get a pair of gloves and pads from Amazon. I think it has many benefits: improving confidence, controlling anger. It does take patience. Not every kid is physically made to fight. Also, parents need to learn about safety.

CNJ7654 8y ago

"Traditionally, the Inuit saw yelling at a small child as demeaning. It's as if the adult is having a tantrum; it's basically stooping to the level of the child, Briggs documented." This article is full of interesting insights, but this one stands out

gumby 8y ago

> "no timeouts" Interesting that the presumption of the author is that the timeout is a punishment rather than a way to get the child to "reset" whatever overstimulation is causing a problem.

HNLurker2 8y ago

How can I not be angry as a teen? (depending on circumstances and truama as a child and childhood). "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger" I am mad jealous of children whose parents made them do outdoor activies. Heck I wish I wasn't even born (can't suffer again neck fracture, unless a gun does the job I live on). I am mad jealous at other rich spoiled kids. Heck I am mad at useless bullshit jobs. Heck I am mad at meaningless cosmological nihilism that we all try to avoid. Heck I am mad for being a nobody without any social life, hobbies and even failing at exams. I do not know if anger helps you fight your circhmstanced or is just detrimental?

downrightmike 8y ago
I realized that I'm going to live, it isn't hard, I keep waking up day after day. When I focussed on the short term, life was hard, super hard. But then I realized If I focus on the long term, things got easier. It may sound strange, but I plan on living until 140. May be unrealistic, maybe not, but I can plan better for that, because the day to day is hectic. It helped me process past all the shit and problems today are limited by their time, and the more time passes, the more I can let them go. I don't care about problems from 10 years ago, and in 10 years, problems now won't matter. Just have to keep setting my self up to move forward, even if it is only a little bit. And every two steps back don't matter in the long term. This is all about how you let things affect you, all you can do is try to not let them hit you too hard today.
ehsanu1 8y ago
I do not know if anger helps you fight your circhmstanced or is just detrimental? I think that depends on how you react to that anger. Generally there is a core need that is underlying that anger. Once that core need is identified, it may be that the anger turns into a different emotion, and will also start to provide avenues for dealing with that need. Eg. if the anger is related to failing at exams, on reflection it may be that you determine that this is affecting you because it may affect your future career prospects, ie your need is to secure your financial future. Or perhaps it is due to another need. The underlying emotion would then be perhaps fear or anxiousness (or it may be something else). Anger is the unrealized version of this emotion. Once you have identified the underlying needs and emotions, that will start you on the path to fulfilling those needs.

hjk05 8y ago

So the moral is, instead of acting out at children in the moment, instead just stay calm and instil them with a mortal fear of the mundane. I’m not sure how much I like that last part, and whether I feel little kids should be fearing they’ll get decapitated if they forget to wear their hats. That might make them less prone to emotional outbursts as adults, but then again so does a lobotomy and electrotheorepy, that doesn’t mean it’s a great idea. I do however love the way this article frames parenting and culture and ties inputs to outputs in parenting. I wonder how well it holds up in practice, if you can say measssure the emotional responses of a hundred adults and use that to accurately estimate if they where scolded as children?

resalisbury 8y ago

What is the evidence that this works? Do inuit communities have lower rates of domestic violence, violent crime etc? Are their other ways of measuring or defining "success"? I'm reminded of the research for " Becoming a Man" (BAM) small groups of adolescents males get together and share stories about times they were angry. There have been several randomized controlled trials that show this reduces juvenile crime rates. And it's a cheap intervention to run. Seems like it shares characteristics around story telling, self reflection and acting like a grown up. https://urbanlabs.uchicago.edu/projects/becoming-a-man https://urbanlabs.uchicago.edu/projects/becoming-a-man

astrostl 8y ago

Totally with them up to the lying thing.

rdmcgregor 8y ago

That's an interesting read. It's nice to see broader perspectives on some of these topics.