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Melatonin's Effect on Skin and Hair
- braindumps 8y agoI know a lot of people who take melatonin to fall asleep. Trying to understand if that's good or bad here?
- corysama 8y agoDon’t see anything bad mentioned here. TLDR: Animals with damaged pineal glands have trouble growing hair. Melatonin supplement helps reverse this. Topical melatonin reduces UV damage to the skin and can promote hair growth.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- magrimu 8y ago>Melatonin administration has been found to increase hair growth in a variety of mammals >In a randomized double-blind study of 40 women with hair loss, melatonin solution applied to the scalp increased hair growth significantly relative to placebo Seems like a positive. The article is suggesting that by helping regulate the circadian rhythm, the use of melatonin can potentially: extend lifespan, prolong fertility, reduce cancer incidence, reduce obesity and insulin resistance, improve neurological recovery from brain injury, improve skin resistance to damage (such as from UV rays) and increase hair growth. Unfortunately, this is unlikely to affect male pattern hair loss.
- orliesaurus 8y ago> Unfortunately, this is unlikely to affect male pattern hair loss. Source?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- cooooooffffeeee 8y agoIt's suspected that male pattern hair loss is a combination of genetics and testosterone. Melatonin will not impact your DNA or testosterone levels.
- radus 8y agoAccording to the article, you may be getting more hair and be less susceptible to sun damaged skin. What isn't clear is whether or not taking melatonin orally at typical dosage (300 mcg to 5 mg) will have those effects in humans. It seems that most of those human studies used topical application, and several of the animal studies used melatonin implants. Also, here is a quote from one of the references (Kleszczynski and Fischer, 2012): > Regarding clinical application, exogenous melatonin should rather be used topically than orally, since orally administered melatonin appears in rather low levels in the blood due to prominent first-pass degradation in the liver, thus limiting skin access. Topical application might be meaningful, since melatonin can penetrate into the stratum corneum and build there a depot due to its distinct lipophilic chemical structure. Therefore, endogenous intracutaneous melatonin production, together with topically applied exogenous melatonin or metabolites can be expected to represent one of the most potent antioxidative defense systems against UV-induced skin aging.
- qwerty456127 8y agoNothing is bad in melatonin except the tolerance development. If I wasn't afraid of developing tolerance to endogenous melatonin I would take huge doses of it every evening.
- taneq 8y agoSo you're saying it's pretty much a free lunch?
- therealx 8y agoTolerance, vivid dreams, and anxiety in some.
- scotty79 8y agoNot sure if it'll do anything for you but it surely is safe. My SO is taking 20mg per day for years (for glioma, not insomnia, it's way too high dose to work for insomnia). She had a break from it for few months during which her tumors started regrowing, might be coincidence.
- inciampati 8y agoIt seems like a free lunch because we are starving ourselves for it. We need a lot more than we produce endogenously under artificial night lighting.
- newsbinator 8y agoI find small doses work better than huge doses anyhow.
- inciampati 8y agoI agree. Also, slow release can be similar to small doses in effect.
- ip26 8y agoI have heard that the main questionmark is that typical doses are far larger than your body would normally produce, so you can't just assume it's "normal" or "natural". But nobody has really identified harm yet.
- canttestthis 8y agoTangentially I'm interested to know whether taking melatonin for long periods of time (years) reduces its effectiveness. I've been taking it for nearly a year but I've heard stories about how you need to keep increasing the dose to get the same effect.
- gnulinux 8y agoI have chronic insomnia, I had it all my life. I used to use melatonin but yes over time it lost its effect and melatonin is not one of those drugs you can just take more to sleep. It has a very precise dosage and if you take more it doesn't make you more sleepy. If you have chronic insomnia, you need to solve the root cause. In my case it is anxiety, and currently I'm trying to solve my anxiety and my sleep quality improves as a corrolary.
- waterhouse 8y agoWhat dosage were you taking? (Same goes to zdragnar.)
- ProfessorLayton 8y agoMelatonin works mildly well for me for a few days, but quickly stops working again, which is unfortunate. I will admit I also have some anxiety issues I need to work on. For better or worse, a low dose of diphenhydramine hcl (12mg) has continued working for me for over a decade without needing to up the dose. My personal experience as far as habit forming goes: I only take it on work nights, and sleep just fine on weekends, or if I'm on vacation. My main issue with sleeping is the specific times I need to do it. If I'm able to sleep when I'm sleepy, and wake up when I'm not, then I don't need any medication. Unfortunately, that doesn't fit in with a typical work schedule.
- davidgay 8y agoThe problem with is diphenhydramine is the increased Alzheimer's risk: https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/common-anticholinergic-drugs-like-benadryl-linked-increased-dementia-risk-201501287667 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/common-anticholinergic-d...
- Merrill 8y agoEffects of Melatonin in Age‐Related Macular Degeneration https://nyaspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1196/annals.1356.029 https://nyaspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1196/ann... "We conclude that the daily use of 3 mg melatonin seems to protect the retina and to delay macular degeneration. No significant side effects were observed."
- limeblack 8y agoI take something called rozerem which is essentially a prescription melatonin. There is lots of debate if these really work.
- therealx 8y agoMelatonin is available OAC in the US, hence some of the difference.
- kgwxd 8y agoWonder if people with more hair in later years tend to be sleepier.
- dade_ 8y agoOr if they get better sleep, actually more alert in afternoon/evenings.
- Reason077 8y agoI once asked about melatonin in a health food shop and was told it’s illegal in the UK! The seems odd in a country where (for example) you can buy codeine pills over-the-counter, so now I’m curious about why it was banned, considering it’s reported to have few side effects?
- dc2447 8y agoMelatonin is now available from Chemists. You need to do a short online consultation but other than that it’s straight forward to buy
- Reason077 8y agoIt’s not permitted to be sold by chemists in the UK. If so it would be an over-the-counter medicine. Rather, it looks some online chemists skirt around the rules by having an “online doctor” issue you with a prescription. But the UK-based ones I found were very expensive and it is surely cheaper just to import from the US via eBay etc.
- collyw 8y agobiovea.com ships it to the UK.
- matthewcford 8y agobiovea are good
- dogma1138 8y agoIt’s a fairly recent change you could’ve gotten it from Amazon until a few months ago. That said you can import them from outside of the UK since you can import any drug for personal use even without prescription.
- ben_w 8y ago“Any” seems incredibly implausible. Class A drugs have penalties for mere possession.
- abainbridge 8y ago> administering melatonin prior to exposure to UV radiation increases cell survival and reduces oxidative damage. Topical melatonin applied to skin 15 minutes prior to exposure to UV radiation completely prevented skin redness (erythema) in a small randomized double-blind study of human subjects This isn't necessarily good news. Sun burn is your body's way of reducing skin cancer. When your body detects too much exposure to sun, it kills the cells that are most likely to have suffered DNA damage. The soreness and inflammation are a result of that mechanism. Disabling that mechanism would cause skin cancer. But maybe melatonin promotes DNA repair and thus the cells don't need to be killed. More research needed :-)
- zuminator 8y agoAre you saying this as a medical research professional or just spitballing? Because the article send to be straightforwardly claiming that melatonin is reducing oxidative damage, not just disabling the visible effects. One of the referenced sources is entitled, "Melatonin as a major skin protectant: from free radical scavenging to DNA damage repair," which seems to be saying that the "more research needed" has already been done, like 10 years ago.
- abainbridge 8y agoGuilty as charged. I didn't read the references. Thanks for the kick in the ass.
- killjoywashere 8y agoFree radical damage is not the main mechanism of UV-induced DNA damage. The main mechanism is direct dimerization as the photo-excited electron relaxes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_DNA_damage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_DNA_damage
- phkahler 8y agoIt's hard to see how anything could prevent that other than sunscreen.
- collyw 8y agoWould crushing a melatonin pill and adding it to suncream work?
- rsp1984 8y agoFor anyone taking Melatonin as a sleeping aid: The dosages it is being sold at are way too high. Recent studies point to 0.3 mg being the right amount for adults [1]. That dosage (taken over a period of several months every day at the same time) helped me get through a period of insomnia last summer, when basically all the other medications failed or had too strong side effects. [1] http://news.mit.edu/2001/melatonin-1017 http://news.mit.edu/2001/melatonin-1017
- kristofferR 8y agoThey do sell melatonin in correct dosages too, Sundown Naturals 300mcg is the one I use.
- russell_h 8y agoI even got a good effect from buying a bottle of these and splitting them in half.
- defertoreptar 8y agoThe only problem is that the suggest 3 mg a day to get the effects of the study.
- YinglingLight 8y ago“Many health food stores are now selling melatonin, to induce sleep and “prevent cancer.” They have taken some information out of context, and don’t realize how dangerous melatonin is. It makes the brain sluggish, causes the sex organs to shrink, and damages immunity by shrinking the thymus gland. It is the hormone of darkness and winter, and is produced in the pineal gland by any stress which increases adrenalin. Adequate sun light suppresses the formation of melatonin.” -Ray Peat, PhD
- krageon 8y ago"In general, the direct actions of melatonin on the gonads and adnexa of mammals indicate it is an important agent for maintaining optimal reproductive physiology" - https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/14/4/7231 https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/14/4/7231 When I look at other papers in this space I do find some adverse responses in hamster nuts when given melatonin injections (but not when it is administered using an implant). At this point I did not want to research the other claims in the quote anymore. Instead, perhaps I can ask you: Do you know of any solid research that backs these (frankly very strong and contrary to everything else I've read) claims? If not, why did you choose to say this?
- kristofferR 8y agoThis is required reading for anybody taking or thinking about taking melatonin: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17632668 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17632668
- k__ 8y agoI know a few people who are eating bananas like crazy since they found out about it.
- andrewjrhill 8y agoWhy?
- jsmit 8y agoBananas contain L-tryptophan. Your body converts L-tryptophan to melatonin (+ serotonin and vitamin B6).
- sfsfsf6666 8y agoMy grandfather lived to 94. Towards the end, the doctors had him on all sorts of schtuff. When he started his final decline in the last months, a hospice worker started coming a couple of times a week to check on him. Grandpa no longer wanted to hang around, ready to "see grandma again", he didn't want to take his medications. We finally relented when the hospice lady said that it was OK, so grandpa was allowed to stop taking his medications. Then something odd happened. Grandpa got better. Which really him. The hospice lady said that it was normal, and she'd seen that happen many times. Grandpa's recovery was shortlived though, mainly because he was hellbent on checking out, and he finally passed, in not too horrible a manner. He fell asleep, then fell into a deep unconscious state, then everything just shut down. In retrospect, I attribute his longevity, aside from genetic potential, to moderation, as well as getting moderate daily sunshine, fresh air, home cooking, walking, and having a reason to get out of bed every morning to attack the day. He had minimal immunizations, I'm sure the ones he got where of the highest quality (who the hell knows the quality control of modern mass produced overseas immunizations), he also took no supplements, and his exposure to the changes in mass produced food in recent decades, would have been minimal as most of his life had already passed. I'm in my late 40s, and virtually all of my friends have similar stories to tell. Our grandparents lived a long time. Our parents less so. And we're sure that our own lifespans will be even less. Pure lifespan aside, looking at the quality of life, it's even more dramatic. Grandpa and his friends did more at 60, then I did at 40. Parents did more at 50 then friends and I did at 40. Now it's common knowledge that 20 and 30 year olds are increasingly shocking doctors in trend-like fashion, with general poor health, and issues.
- graeme 8y agoQuestion for people on melatonin. I tried 0.5 mg does, from cutting a 1 mg pill in half. Didn't have much effect. Had a concussion three months ago and started taking 2 mg based on a post concussion study I read. this did markedly improve my sleep. 1. Did anyone experience a good effect only at higher doses 2. I'm doing much better day to day on this dosage, but I don't want to impair my own production. Do I need to go down to 0.3 mg, or can I cycle it etc? It's really been life changing. Will ask my doctor the next time I'm in, of course.
- projectramo 8y agoI found no dose effect (weird, intuitively, I know). I ate a packet of gummy bears that, I didn't realize, turned out to be melatonin gummies! I think the packet had something like 15 mg. I was on a flight from china and had barely slept the night before (becuase of flight connections). I fell asleep for 2 hours and then I was awake for the flight. Conversely, I've taken 1.5mg and slept soundly.
- JimBrimble35 8y agoAs I understand it, Melatonin can be administered as a hypotic (taken in larger doses (1mg - 3mg) before bed), or it can be taken in smaller doses hours before bed to trigger the natural release of Melatonin and start the sleep cycle. (I mentioned this in another comment).
- graeme 8y agoOh, interesting. So 30 min or so before, 1-3 mg would be effective, but with a lower dose I should try 3-4 hours before bed or so? Thanks! I'll try that and see what happens.
- JimBrimble35 8y agoYeah, you might have more success that way. I take 3mg right before bed and I find I fall asleep a lot faster than I do without it. Especially if I've been on a screen before bed or my brain just doesn't want to shut up. if you're thinking about trying the option where you take it a few hours before bed time, make sure you're going to bed at a consistent target time (10pm for example). Since this method is more targeted at resetting your circadian rhythm. If you feel like you have more serious sleep/wake problems I would definitely recommend seeing a specialist. I was surprised to learn that people who say things like "I can't go to sleep until x o'clock" or "I can't stay awake beyond x time" probably suffer from circadian rhythm problems that are treatable.. but the treatment isn't always as intuitive as you might think.
- illegalsmile 8y agoI've been taking melatonin for the last 3 months since cutting out alcohol and it seemed to help with falling into a sleep. As Friday I stopped taking it because I don't want to be reliant on something for sleep other than exercise and proper diet. Anecdotally, my sleep the last three nights since cutting it out have been horribly restless and not fulfilling. I'd rather not take it but if after a week normal sleep doesn't return I might since it sounds like it's relatively benign compared to other sleep aids. Are there any longitudinal studies about years of usage?
- hwillis 8y agohttps://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/10/melatonin-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/10/melatonin-much-more-th...
- projectramo 8y agoI have the same concerns and every doctor I ask tells me the study show no long term effects at all. One explanation: I tend to take melatonin when I am very tired and didn't get enough sleep the previous night. But on those nights I sleep very well anyway. And once I have enough sleep I don't sleep as deeply the next night. Perhaps that is a lurking variable for me. Do you have a fitbit or something to track the sleep?
- cyounkins 8y agoGwern has some great info on melatonin - https://www.gwern.net/Melatonin https://www.gwern.net/Melatonin I take Natrol brand Melatonin Fast Dissolve Tablets, Strawberry flavor, 3mg, splitting them in half (for 1.5 mg) and put it under my tongue for sublingual absorption.
- chillytoes 8y agoI take magnesium supplements to help with sleep. First read about it on Hacker News 6-12 months ago. Changed my life. My insomnia is not cured, but definitely much better and zero side effects. I tried many different sleeping pills, but they either made me too groggy the next morning or their efficacy lessened over time. Just Magnesium Citrate from Walgreens is what I use.