11 ms·

Regarding the first class floor in Dubai, it's not that empty, it's just designed to seem spacious and quiet in order to differentiate from the crowded business

Regarding the first class floor in Dubai, it's not that empty, it's just designed to seem spacious and quiet in order to differentiate from the crowded business floor. But you need to keep in mind that the vast majority of passengers there are just platinum card holders like myself, not actually flying first class. Indeed first class is slowly dying out, I think one thing they miss is that business class has become more and more comfortable across nearly all airlines (especially Emirates on the 380). One thing they don't mention is the proliferation of private terminals/lounges for commercial flights. There's a lot of these in LHR. They have their own security checkpoints, and you're ferried by limo straight to the plane, to board first. So you get some of the advantages of flying private, but at a much lower cost (still upwards of 10k a year to get a membership I believe)

dforrestwilson 8y ago
Can I ask what you do and how to get into your line of work?
- blhack 8y ago
  There are lots of sales jobs that are going to be this way.
- namdnay 8y ago
  Nothing special, just manager in a software dev shop that works with a lot of airlines/airports. As soon as your customers are abroad there is a lot of international travel involved for the management levels of any company. Although more and more companies are cutting back and making people fly coach :/
  - Aeolun 8y ago
    It’s a bit crazy if you are asked to fly pretty much every month. The least they can do is make it comfortable.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - zymhan 8y ago
      Yeah, the older I get, the more I realize the need to be comfortable on a flight, especially if you want to be productive after you arrive.
      - CIPHERSTONE 8y ago
        If you ever get to fly first class (I have only twice), the entire flight experience is starkly different. I am 6'4", even with an economy plus upgrade the experience is horrible. I don't want to be catered to, I just want leg room. I shouldn't be in constant leg pain you know?
        ghaff 8y ago
        I was traveling cross-country with a friend a few weeks back. Between being able to go through TSA Pre with me, my club membership, and an upgrade to Polaris she was somewhat in awe of how the experience didn’t suck like it usually did.
        Scoundreller 8y ago
        Exit row seats should meet your needs. Check on seatguru before booking any flights.
        donretag 8y ago
        Exit row seats are now premium seats that have a surcharge.
        Scoundreller 8y ago
        And far cheaper (last I saw was $50 for an overnight transatlantic flight) than an upgrade to the premium economy/business/first class seats (double fare or more).
  - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
    If you have to fly more than a few long hauls a year, business class is necessary to preserve your sanity.
    - close04 8y ago
      I used to fly twice per week (round trip, basically every ~3 days, just over 2h each way) for years, mostly coach. Not nearly long haul but I still wonder if that's responsible for the current state of my sanity :). Also I got to witness the shrink of leg room, as a person at 1.95m/6'4". My legs fared a lot worse than my mind.
      - retzkek 8y ago
        > as a person at 1.95m/6'4". My legs fared a lot worse than my mind. As a fellow tall person, I've idly wondered (but no more than that) if there could be cause to petition for people above some height (6'2" maybe? hard to say since it's really hip height and femur length that matter) to be considered a protected class, requiring a free upgrade if a certain minimum leg room was not available in a standard seat. I've had to do trans-Atlantic flights with my knees smashed, surviving only by frequent standeeism and my wife's good graces letting me take up part of her seat space. I've seen some people use devices to block the person in front of them from reclining, but I'd rather not be that level of asshole. On the other hand often on domestic flights my knees are that device.
        close04 8y ago
        I go through the same every time. But being tall (intrinsically by birth, with no "fix") is always considered a blessing. It will never be seen as a protected class. You will never even get much sympathy because of this. Don't expect it to ever trigger the same reaction as obesity does, which is treated as a curse and an illness (regardless of the underlying cause and whether it can be fixed or not), and is much more likely to fall into a protected class via the "physical impairment that significantly limits your ability in one or more major areas of life" legal definition. There is no fear of public backlash, bad PR, etc. pushing companies into giving you any (positive) special treatment so you'll just have to deal with it. To be honest I'll more than gladly live with the disadvantages of being tall (mostly related to seating situations) given the advantages. :)
  - neoflex 8y ago
    My company makes me fly coach. However, when booking business trips I tried to stick to one airline, and made sure to use my personal frequent flyer number I just kept raking up points until I hit platinum membership, then I can use the points to upgrade to business.
  - Tistel 8y ago
    I fly coach for work. One time I got upgraded (by one of the C-Level people with a ton of frequent flyer points card) be to business class. Oh my god! So much room. I kind of wish it had not happened. Now coach feels worse than before. Lol. need to find a better company.
- statictype 8y ago
  Getting platinum on Emirates is not terribly difficult. We don't as a policy fly business or first class but we do frequently enough that we get the status and access to the lounge which is great. You can even bring along a fellow passenger with you.
  - namdnay 8y ago
    More than that actually. You can nominate someone to be gold once a year, so they get access + a guest to the business lounge. And you yourself can invite on adult and two children as guests to the first lounge ... it's quite generous
samfisher83 8y ago
Even Exxon only pays business class. I don't think I have heard of any companies giving first class tickets.
- namdnay 8y ago
  Indeed. Although of course for a company like Exxon the top mgmt are probably flying private jets... The rare times I fly first it's just upgrades due to frequent flyer status
  - samfisher83 8y ago
    I know people with global services who have never got a first class upgrade. Any secret on how to get first class? Any airline to pick?
    - unexpected 8y ago
      I am Executive Platinum on American. I fly business class a lot, and have been able to get first class upgrades pretty easily. The first class product is very similar to business class - just slightly "fancier" food. I actually prefer the business class seat on AA's long haul flights (way more storage space for ipad, headphones, etc. - at the cost of a slightly narrower seat). The trick to getting most upgrades from business to first is to request the upgrade as soon as you book the biz class flight. You're not likely to get it if you try to do it at the airport.
    - namdnay 8y ago
      The real secret is to pick the right flight! There are certain flights that are always jam-packed in business, this gives you two opportunities. The first step is to check-in last minute at the desk. The next step depends on your situation: 1) You don't have any holidays coming up: Go to the dedicated desk for first/platinum, about 2h before departure. Just check in and if business is full your status will get you pushed up 2) You do plan on taking holidays: Same, but the first question you ask is "do you need volunteers for downgrade?". Trust me, on Emirates they make it worth your while :) Edit: the protip is the weekday Emirates India-Dubai flights that leave in the small hours of the morning (e.g. 2am). I guarantee the business section will always be overbooked
throwaway-1283 8y ago
Yep - we're living in the golden age of business class travel. Business class on every major international airline has some variation of a reverse herringbone lie-flat seat, which is the killer feature for paying for a premium seat in the first place (e.g. some privacy + lie flat seat).
- dzhiurgis 8y ago
  Yet you have to resort to hacks like this [0] to find cheap business airfares. None of the flight search sites can find cheapest biz flights from continent to continent. Script below opens 40 tabs and with a bit of clicking I found 1900usd return flight aussie to europe... There's also some weird bugs where economy class Malaysia Airlines leg would be inserted when searching for biz. Kiwi.com straight up renders 0 biz flights when using their continent-to-continent search. https://pastebin.com/ejvaMLRi https://pastebin.com/ejvaMLRi
  - leesalminen 8y ago
    I recently saved ~$4000 on a round trip business class ticket from the US to South America. Instead of departing from Denver, I departed from Newark. This was very strange as I was on United which is a hub in both cities. I guess United really wants people to check out their new Polaris lounges?
- magduf 8y ago
  It seems like they should be able to pack more people into economy for long-haul flights, and make them more comfortable, by simply eliminating seats and replacing them with bed-pods. They'd be like little tubes you could crawl into and lie down in. They could have a monitor on the ceiling if you want to watch a movie, and otherwise you can just curl up and go to sleep (something that's usually very uncomfortable in an economy airline seat).
  - dzhiurgis 8y ago
    I was also thinking some advanced economy origami seats that fold out into 3 level bunk beds. Apparently it's all about "safety" - all passengers are supposed to evacuate in 2 minutes or something. Apparently it's quite hard when you are in a pod or something. I don't care about all the fancy stuff you get in biz, just wanna straighten my body (especially with 20 hour flights becoming a norm). Half of my femur doesn't even fit in economy seat. Heck I could even sleep on that cold as floor, but of course they won't let you.
Scoundreller 8y ago
Wait, why Board first? Then everyone stares you down. Stay in the lounge and board last!
- GreaterFool 8y ago
  Probably to make the whole process speedier and cheaper for the airline. You'd have to completely finish boarding for lower classes and then give a decent grace period for first class passengers to just show up at their leisure. Also first class (and often business) are kinda separated so no one stares you down. I fly premium economy sometimes and you're the first to board and sit upfront and then you have to watch everybody walking by! It's a world of difference between premium economy and business, sigh. Norwegian Air Shuttle had a pretty cool idea with their premium cabin. It's not crazy expensive but the seats are so much better!
  - cwt137 8y ago
    First class boarding first is absolutely the wrong way to speed up boarding. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAHbLRjF0vo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAHbLRjF0vo
  - tcgv 8y ago
    The few times I flew business it wasn't separated. I felt really awkward while economy passengers were boarding and staring at me in my seat while walking down the aisle. When I'm flying economy (most of the time) I always avoid staring at business passengers so they don't feel awkward as well.
- namdnay 8y ago
  Keep in mind that on most big planes, first is either to the left of the entrance, or on a different tunnel/floor
arcticbull 8y ago
The first class lounge is the same size as the business class lounge below it, and I ran the numbers at some point. If I recall, based on the number of daily departures and seat distributions the business section caters to 1000 business class seats at any given time, where the first floor caters to 100. Yeah, it’s as designed.
- kenneth 8y ago
  The math doesn't check out. Emirates offers first on their whole fleet. They have ~240 daily departures (best I can work out).We can assume they have 4+ pax per departure (their planes have 8-14 first seats and are have decent load factors, so my estimates is likely way lower than reality to be safe). This adds up to 1,000+ first class departures daily, and that's without counting people who have access based on status.
  - ricardobeat 8y ago
    Those are daily numbers, the parent said “at any given time”, so both of your numbers seem to match.
  - m-s 8y ago
    That's incorrect. Emirates operates some aircraft with a two-class configuration.
    - kenneth 8y ago
      Not yet. They will be when they take delivery of new planes and reconfigure their 772LR, but as of right now they only fly 777s and 380s in 3-class configuration. Perhaps you're thinking of Etihad or Qatar or EK's partner flydubai. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirates_fleet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirates_fleet
  - samstave 8y ago
    SFO has open data on traffic: https://data.sfgov.org/Transportation/SFO-Gate-and-Stand-Assignment-Information/chfu-j7tc https://data.sfgov.org/Transportation/SFO-Gate-and-Stand-Ass... https://www.flysfo.com/media/facts-statistics/air-traffic-statistics/2018 https://www.flysfo.com/media/facts-statistics/air-traffic-st... https://data.sfgov.org/Transportation/Air-Traffic-Landings-Statistics/fpux-q53t https://data.sfgov.org/Transportation/Air-Traffic-Landings-S...
m463 8y ago
I wonder if those aircraft timesharing services are eating away at first class. Maybe there are even "uber for planes"? (or would that be airbnb for air?)

dforrestwilson 8y ago

Can I ask what you do and how to get into your line of work?

blhack 8y ago
There are lots of sales jobs that are going to be this way.
namdnay 8y ago
Nothing special, just manager in a software dev shop that works with a lot of airlines/airports. As soon as your customers are abroad there is a lot of international travel involved for the management levels of any company. Although more and more companies are cutting back and making people fly coach :/
- Aeolun 8y ago
  It’s a bit crazy if you are asked to fly pretty much every month. The least they can do is make it comfortable.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - zymhan 8y ago
    Yeah, the older I get, the more I realize the need to be comfortable on a flight, especially if you want to be productive after you arrive.
    - CIPHERSTONE 8y ago
      If you ever get to fly first class (I have only twice), the entire flight experience is starkly different. I am 6'4", even with an economy plus upgrade the experience is horrible. I don't want to be catered to, I just want leg room. I shouldn't be in constant leg pain you know?
      - ghaff 8y ago
        I was traveling cross-country with a friend a few weeks back. Between being able to go through TSA Pre with me, my club membership, and an upgrade to Polaris she was somewhat in awe of how the experience didn’t suck like it usually did.
      - Scoundreller 8y ago
        Exit row seats should meet your needs. Check on seatguru before booking any flights.
        donretag 8y ago
        Exit row seats are now premium seats that have a surcharge.
        Scoundreller 8y ago
        And far cheaper (last I saw was $50 for an overnight transatlantic flight) than an upgrade to the premium economy/business/first class seats (double fare or more).
- seanmcdirmid 8y ago
  If you have to fly more than a few long hauls a year, business class is necessary to preserve your sanity.
  - close04 8y ago
    I used to fly twice per week (round trip, basically every ~3 days, just over 2h each way) for years, mostly coach. Not nearly long haul but I still wonder if that's responsible for the current state of my sanity :). Also I got to witness the shrink of leg room, as a person at 1.95m/6'4". My legs fared a lot worse than my mind.
    - retzkek 8y ago
      > as a person at 1.95m/6'4". My legs fared a lot worse than my mind. As a fellow tall person, I've idly wondered (but no more than that) if there could be cause to petition for people above some height (6'2" maybe? hard to say since it's really hip height and femur length that matter) to be considered a protected class, requiring a free upgrade if a certain minimum leg room was not available in a standard seat. I've had to do trans-Atlantic flights with my knees smashed, surviving only by frequent standeeism and my wife's good graces letting me take up part of her seat space. I've seen some people use devices to block the person in front of them from reclining, but I'd rather not be that level of asshole. On the other hand often on domestic flights my knees are that device.
      - close04 8y ago
        I go through the same every time. But being tall (intrinsically by birth, with no "fix") is always considered a blessing. It will never be seen as a protected class. You will never even get much sympathy because of this. Don't expect it to ever trigger the same reaction as obesity does, which is treated as a curse and an illness (regardless of the underlying cause and whether it can be fixed or not), and is much more likely to fall into a protected class via the "physical impairment that significantly limits your ability in one or more major areas of life" legal definition. There is no fear of public backlash, bad PR, etc. pushing companies into giving you any (positive) special treatment so you'll just have to deal with it. To be honest I'll more than gladly live with the disadvantages of being tall (mostly related to seating situations) given the advantages. :)
- neoflex 8y ago
  My company makes me fly coach. However, when booking business trips I tried to stick to one airline, and made sure to use my personal frequent flyer number I just kept raking up points until I hit platinum membership, then I can use the points to upgrade to business.
- Tistel 8y ago
  I fly coach for work. One time I got upgraded (by one of the C-Level people with a ton of frequent flyer points card) be to business class. Oh my god! So much room. I kind of wish it had not happened. Now coach feels worse than before. Lol. need to find a better company.
statictype 8y ago
Getting platinum on Emirates is not terribly difficult. We don't as a policy fly business or first class but we do frequently enough that we get the status and access to the lounge which is great. You can even bring along a fellow passenger with you.
- namdnay 8y ago
  More than that actually. You can nominate someone to be gold once a year, so they get access + a guest to the business lounge. And you yourself can invite on adult and two children as guests to the first lounge ... it's quite generous

samfisher83 8y ago

Even Exxon only pays business class. I don't think I have heard of any companies giving first class tickets.

namdnay 8y ago
Indeed. Although of course for a company like Exxon the top mgmt are probably flying private jets... The rare times I fly first it's just upgrades due to frequent flyer status
- samfisher83 8y ago
  I know people with global services who have never got a first class upgrade. Any secret on how to get first class? Any airline to pick?
  - unexpected 8y ago
    I am Executive Platinum on American. I fly business class a lot, and have been able to get first class upgrades pretty easily. The first class product is very similar to business class - just slightly "fancier" food. I actually prefer the business class seat on AA's long haul flights (way more storage space for ipad, headphones, etc. - at the cost of a slightly narrower seat). The trick to getting most upgrades from business to first is to request the upgrade as soon as you book the biz class flight. You're not likely to get it if you try to do it at the airport.
  - namdnay 8y ago
    The real secret is to pick the right flight! There are certain flights that are always jam-packed in business, this gives you two opportunities. The first step is to check-in last minute at the desk. The next step depends on your situation: 1) You don't have any holidays coming up: Go to the dedicated desk for first/platinum, about 2h before departure. Just check in and if business is full your status will get you pushed up 2) You do plan on taking holidays: Same, but the first question you ask is "do you need volunteers for downgrade?". Trust me, on Emirates they make it worth your while :) Edit: the protip is the weekday Emirates India-Dubai flights that leave in the small hours of the morning (e.g. 2am). I guarantee the business section will always be overbooked

throwaway-1283 8y ago

Yep - we're living in the golden age of business class travel. Business class on every major international airline has some variation of a reverse herringbone lie-flat seat, which is the killer feature for paying for a premium seat in the first place (e.g. some privacy + lie flat seat).

dzhiurgis 8y ago
Yet you have to resort to hacks like this [0] to find cheap business airfares. None of the flight search sites can find cheapest biz flights from continent to continent. Script below opens 40 tabs and with a bit of clicking I found 1900usd return flight aussie to europe... There's also some weird bugs where economy class Malaysia Airlines leg would be inserted when searching for biz. Kiwi.com straight up renders 0 biz flights when using their continent-to-continent search. https://pastebin.com/ejvaMLRi https://pastebin.com/ejvaMLRi
- leesalminen 8y ago
  I recently saved ~$4000 on a round trip business class ticket from the US to South America. Instead of departing from Denver, I departed from Newark. This was very strange as I was on United which is a hub in both cities. I guess United really wants people to check out their new Polaris lounges?
magduf 8y ago
It seems like they should be able to pack more people into economy for long-haul flights, and make them more comfortable, by simply eliminating seats and replacing them with bed-pods. They'd be like little tubes you could crawl into and lie down in. They could have a monitor on the ceiling if you want to watch a movie, and otherwise you can just curl up and go to sleep (something that's usually very uncomfortable in an economy airline seat).
- dzhiurgis 8y ago
  I was also thinking some advanced economy origami seats that fold out into 3 level bunk beds. Apparently it's all about "safety" - all passengers are supposed to evacuate in 2 minutes or something. Apparently it's quite hard when you are in a pod or something. I don't care about all the fancy stuff you get in biz, just wanna straighten my body (especially with 20 hour flights becoming a norm). Half of my femur doesn't even fit in economy seat. Heck I could even sleep on that cold as floor, but of course they won't let you.

Scoundreller 8y ago

Wait, why Board first? Then everyone stares you down. Stay in the lounge and board last!

GreaterFool 8y ago
Probably to make the whole process speedier and cheaper for the airline. You'd have to completely finish boarding for lower classes and then give a decent grace period for first class passengers to just show up at their leisure. Also first class (and often business) are kinda separated so no one stares you down. I fly premium economy sometimes and you're the first to board and sit upfront and then you have to watch everybody walking by! It's a world of difference between premium economy and business, sigh. Norwegian Air Shuttle had a pretty cool idea with their premium cabin. It's not crazy expensive but the seats are so much better!
- cwt137 8y ago
  First class boarding first is absolutely the wrong way to speed up boarding. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAHbLRjF0vo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAHbLRjF0vo
- tcgv 8y ago
  The few times I flew business it wasn't separated. I felt really awkward while economy passengers were boarding and staring at me in my seat while walking down the aisle. When I'm flying economy (most of the time) I always avoid staring at business passengers so they don't feel awkward as well.
namdnay 8y ago
Keep in mind that on most big planes, first is either to the left of the entrance, or on a different tunnel/floor

arcticbull 8y ago

The first class lounge is the same size as the business class lounge below it, and I ran the numbers at some point. If I recall, based on the number of daily departures and seat distributions the business section caters to 1000 business class seats at any given time, where the first floor caters to 100. Yeah, it’s as designed.

kenneth 8y ago
The math doesn't check out. Emirates offers first on their whole fleet. They have ~240 daily departures (best I can work out).We can assume they have 4+ pax per departure (their planes have 8-14 first seats and are have decent load factors, so my estimates is likely way lower than reality to be safe). This adds up to 1,000+ first class departures daily, and that's without counting people who have access based on status.
- ricardobeat 8y ago
  Those are daily numbers, the parent said “at any given time”, so both of your numbers seem to match.
- m-s 8y ago
  That's incorrect. Emirates operates some aircraft with a two-class configuration.
  - kenneth 8y ago
    Not yet. They will be when they take delivery of new planes and reconfigure their 772LR, but as of right now they only fly 777s and 380s in 3-class configuration. Perhaps you're thinking of Etihad or Qatar or EK's partner flydubai. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirates_fleet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirates_fleet
- samstave 8y ago
  SFO has open data on traffic: https://data.sfgov.org/Transportation/SFO-Gate-and-Stand-Assignment-Information/chfu-j7tc https://data.sfgov.org/Transportation/SFO-Gate-and-Stand-Ass... https://www.flysfo.com/media/facts-statistics/air-traffic-statistics/2018 https://www.flysfo.com/media/facts-statistics/air-traffic-st... https://data.sfgov.org/Transportation/Air-Traffic-Landings-Statistics/fpux-q53t https://data.sfgov.org/Transportation/Air-Traffic-Landings-S...

m463 8y ago

I wonder if those aircraft timesharing services are eating away at first class. Maybe there are even "uber for planes"? (or would that be airbnb for air?)