10 ms·

At least they acknowledged it, responded to the feedback and fixed it. Unfortunately I have a Sonos system which became effectively bricked unless I signed a n

by derriz 8y ago

At least they acknowledged it, responded to the feedback and fixed it. Unfortunately I have a Sonos system which became effectively bricked unless I signed a new user agreement allowing the collection of data. There are no physical controls on Sonos so the system becomes useless without accepting. They used to sell dedicated controllers/remotes years ago but these were also bricked as part of an upgrade about a year or two ago. Unhappy owners were offered a voucher (worth less than the value of a single controller - many users owned multiple in order to fully support multi-room - see https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/save-the-cr100-6800510 https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/s...) for their next Sonos purchase rather than allow them to continue to use the hardware they had purchased and used happily for years. All concerns, requests to be allowed to downgrade, etc. are met on the official forums with a passive-aggressive dismissal of users' concerns by staff backed up by a few cultist fanatics. I've tried to avoid any further updates (and deny Sonos access to my listening habits) by having it run on a disconnected network but if anyone accidentally updates the app on the old ipad we use as a controller, your forced to update everything. I just wish I had the same system which I originally bought which I use exclusively to play my ripped CDs from a NAS.

hedora 8y ago
Does anyone know of a good (from a privacy and usability perspective) alternative to Sonos? I plan to buy 5-6 of them sometime later this year, and for what that costs, they have no excuse to data-harvest me.
- MayeulC 8y ago
  Well, there's snapcast that allows you to relatively simply build an alternative, but I don't know if anyone builds and sells ready-made products. You can probably go by using a couple raspberry pis (or any ARM board with a jack output), a preconfigured SD card image, and some external speakers. I don't know the price of Sonos speakers, but I don't think it would be much higher. I guess someone could even create a business out of this, especially if tailoring the PCBs to the task.
- bbeekley 8y ago
  What were you looking to get out of a Sonos? If you just want something that can play music wirelessly from various devices, I'd recommend getting a pair of bookshelf speakers and plugging them into one of (Airport Express, Chromecast Audio, Raspberry Pi[1]). You won't be locked into Sonos and generally bookshelf speakers sound better than all-in-one units. I'd love to recommend some speakers if you're interested (e.g. [2]). I have run a few Airport Expresses for the past 10 years and love them. Older models are cheap (<$30) and still work great. [1] https://support.hifiberry.com/hc/en-us/articles/205699981-How-to-build-a-multiroom-audio-system-based-on-Raspberry-Pi-and-Hifiberry https://support.hifiberry.com/hc/en-us/articles/205699981-Ho... [2] https://www.amazon.com/Micca-PB42X-Powered-Bookshelf-Speakers/dp/B00NXAEPDC/ https://www.amazon.com/Micca-PB42X-Powered-Bookshelf-Speaker...
- kakarot 8y ago
  Low cost SBC (Raspberry Pi, etc) and whatever speakers you'd like. Airsonic or a basic UPnP server as your driver. Take it a step further (if you prefer portability of sound quality) and get an SBC with a bluetooth adapter, and several bluetooth modules which you can rig up to each speaker.
- wiml 8y ago
  Quite a few people run systems with a Raspberry Pi, a high-quality I2S DAC+amp, and a set of (normal, non-internet-connected, firmware-free) speakers. There's a tiny industry of producing hardware and software for this situation. "Usability" means very different things to different people (after all, the reason Sonos asks for location access is to improve usability), but maybe look at https://volumio.org/ https://volumio.org/, http://www.runeaudio.com/ http://www.runeaudio.com/, http://moodeaudio.org/ http://moodeaudio.org/. Or just install MPD and Pianobar for that old school experience.
- secabeen 8y ago
  Do you want to stream audio from online streaming services, or just play local files from your NAS/PC?
- auxbuss 8y ago
  I've used Libratone [0] for years. Superb products. Excellent audio. [0] https://www.libratone.com/ https://www.libratone.com/
- georgebarnett 8y ago
  You don’t mention which ecosystem you live in. I’m very happy with my Apple Homepods. The sound quality is great and I trust Apple with privacy. I don’t use Siri at all (I have disabled the microphone) and so for me they’re purely network speakers which are very easy to use and look after themselves with updates.
- wilsonnb3 8y ago
  Bose has a competing range called Soundtouch, no idea what their privacy is like but usability is good.
lazyjones 8y ago
Sounds like lawmakers need to enforce warnings labels on such products: „works only with sensitive data collection“ or similar.
- ryanbrunner 8y ago
  This is worse, in a way - from what I can tell at the point of purchase the system didn't have the problematic data collection - that was added later in an update. Even a savvy consumer who researched which product to buy would be screwed in this circumstance. It does seem to me that once a product is purchased, it ought to remain usable and supported under the terms it was purchased under, but that seems a long way from the current laws around user agreements.
  - bunderbunder 8y ago
    The law could include a ban on firmware updates that subsequently introduce and require sensitive data collection post-purchase. That said, I'm not sure you can really pin this down. It's probably better to just assume that any device that requires a wi-fi connection to work is phoning home until proven otherwise. And you have to assume that any device that phones home is collecting data. It's not even a secret that this is the case. Pretty much every time I go to a lunch-and-learn for a data product, the major premise of the obligatory client case study is, "We sell this consumer product that does X, but our most exciting product is actually all the data we can harvest from it and then resell."
    - lazyjones 8y ago
      > The law could include a ban on firmware updates that subsequently introduce and require sensitive data collection post-purchase. This is IMHO a broader issue with products that receive firmware or OTA updates, it's probably legally a breach of contract already to modify products after sale and change functionality to the disadvantage of the consumer.
      - bunderbunder 8y ago
close04 8y ago
My Sonos system is by far the biggest slice in the “Blocked” pie chart of my PiHole dashboard. I have no idea how much dat still ends up on their servers because I didn’t bother to dig too deeply yet. Next step is different VLAN with no internet access.
- close04 8y ago
  Just for conformity so I don't bash and run, it seems Philips (Hue) has taken the crown recently with ~30 times more attempts to call home then the next culprit, Microsoft. MS also snuck ahead of Sonos. A lot of these attempts are probably due to the fact that they fail and keep retrying. Possibly allowing them all would lead to far fewer attempts.
conesus 8y ago
If you're interested, I sell a dedicated Sonos music controller (built out of wood no less). It's available at https://turntouch.com https://turntouch.com and it's entirely open source so you don't have to worry about me taking your data and selling it. Earning money based on the initial sale is all that I want out of my users. That and props.
- efsavage 8y ago
  Seems cool, and perhaps I'm missing something, but it appears to require a closed-source app from a walled-garden app store to configure it, so it could easily be made useless if the app disappears?
  - conesus 8y ago
    Check it out, 100% open source: https://github.com/samuelclay/turntouch-ios https://github.com/samuelclay/turntouch-ios. The Mac app, the firmware, and even the CAD and CAM designs are also there. And I documented everything so you can get a peek into how it was built if you want to change the designs for yourself. http://ofbrooklyn.com/2019/01/3/building-turntouch/ http://ofbrooklyn.com/2019/01/3/building-turntouch/ Everything I build I want to last beyond myself. So beyond the source code I also write about the why for everything. That it improves sales is a nice bonus.
- e40 8y ago
  Can I ask how it works to protect my data from Sonos? Don't they still get all the same data?
  - conesus 8y ago
    What you do with the remote is between you and what you control. I store anonymous metrics that I use to gauge usage levels but you can turn that off. Sonos undoubtedly takes your listening habits and profits off that data but Turn Touch does not, even though it has access to that data.
    - 8y ago
CyberDildonics 8y ago
I can't see how situations like this aren't anything but a bait and switch. You buy something, it changes out from under you.
- avh02 8y ago
  This is why I'm getting sick of cloud services like Dropbox and I'm trying to bring it all back under my roof Example: Dropbox's $99 plan used to be able to share a link with password protection, that's been conveniently moved to their $199 plan. This simply can't happen with self hosted/controlled alternatives that you control updates to.
  - TuringNYC 8y ago
    I've found Dropbox to be notorious with this. Their business plan used to be only $150/yr (Fine Print: you pay minimum 3 seats.) That magically changed to five seats at some point and now the $150/yr suddenly shows up as $750/yr auto-renewed and almost impossible to cancel.
    - illegalsmile 8y ago
      Is there not an alternative to Dropbox that offers better service for the same if not lower cost? I understand that they could pull the same bait and switch on you but maybe there are providers who wouldn't do that or grandfather you in.
      - TuringNYC 8y ago
        I eventually completely terminated the account and moved to Google Drive. I got lured into DropBox because I was an editor to a book that required DropBox to access manuscripts. The way they were set up, I ended up having to upgrade to a business user given the shared file sizes I was editing (had something to do with the book publisher being on a business account as well.) I ended up paying more for DropBox than I even made as an editor. Brutal. It felt like a mobile phone contract: seemingly inexpensive, sneaky, convoluted, and before you know you have a gigantic bill committed to for the year. That is why i cut the cord on my cable tv. I dont understand how companies can accept the ill-will of bait-and-switch tactics -- is it really more profitable than an upfront deal where each party feels it was an honest deal? I mean, I dont mind paying...but I want know know what i'll be paying and decide accordingly. Cable TV is a virtual monopoly, but DropBox is not and I dont know how they can deal with ill-will from former customers, once bit twice shy.
Casseres 8y ago
> They used to sell dedicated controllers/remotes years ago but these were also bricked as part of an upgrade about a year or two ago. Would a class-action be successful in a situation like this?
- MaxBarraclough 8y ago
  Years back, Sony updated the PS3's software to remove the 'otherOS' feature (i.e. the ability to run Linux). Apparently they lost the class action, but only paid out a couple months ago. http://www.otherossettlement.com/ http://www.otherossettlement.com/
ajmurmann 8y ago
Come to think of it, this is the real work rivaled of an API breaking change. It seems entirely reasonable to that we should have regulation that prohibits this kind of change after you've already purchased the product. But then again, in a sane system, you should either need to sign the user agreement for anything at purchase time or be allowed to return a device whenever you encounter a the (new) user agreement. Currently you might buy something that you cannot return and only then at the user agreement. The user aren't should be seen as pay of the purchase contract and the purchase shouldn't be valid without it being signed.
- PurpleBoxDragon 8y ago
  A sane system would consider the knowledge and power differences between the average individual and the corporate lawyers who wrote the agreement, along with the one sided nature of the agreement, and void any consent as not having been possible to give. Likely the agreement would be treated as one signed by a child, where the more powerful party is the only one bound by it.
rsync 8y ago
"... Unfortunately I have a Sonos system ..." How very funny - as I read the OP and was clicking into the HN comments, all that I had on my mind was "Sonos". I wish I had the time to clearly and succinctly elucidate the path of Sonos, corrupted by the mobile ecosystem and a reach for easy profits, from a darling hardware provider that users loved to a wannabe data broker that I hate-use.
periya 8y ago
I have been on the fence of buying a Sonos because I've always loved the sound quality but I could never bring myself to spend so much on them, your comment along with comments in this thread have made my decision easier. I'm going to stick with my dumb speakers and avoid all the hassle that comes with "smart" devices.
- distances 8y ago
  Building a dumb system will also provide a much better audio quality if you're willing to spend some time researching what to do. Plus it's of course more flexible as all parts are replaceable separately.
tokyodude 8y ago
I know I'm in the extreme minority here but I also hate Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, Spotify, Apple Music, and even Youtube tracking what I watch. For youtube I watch lots of things in incognito mode. I like the idea of getting recommendations. I hate the idea of a profile being built on me. Yes I get this Sonos is arguably worse since they're spying on stuff not from a service. iTunes does this as well though you can opt out. Oculus does it too. No opt out there AFAIK. Steam as well. You can add in PS4/Switch/Xbox too. Does the law preventing companies sharing your video rental history apply to internet companies and streaming music, videos, and games?
pdkl95 8y ago
> by having it run on a disconnected network This is only a temporary solution to the problem of devices phoning home against your wishes (or knowledge). The "system-on-a-chip" CPUs used in embedded ("smart") devices with an integrated cellular (LTE/etc) modem have existed for years[1]. The hardware that can simply bypass your local network and phone home over the cellular network already exists. The people that want to spy on everyone for profit will no longer ask for internet access through your LAN when someone finally negotiates with the carriers for some sort of low-priority/off-peak access they can use to batch-upload their eavesdropping ("analytics"). [1] random example from "Q4 3014" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exynos#List_of_ARMv8_Exynos_SoCs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exynos#List_of_ARMv8_Exynos_So...
- CharlesColeman 8y ago
  > The hardware that can simply bypass your local network and phone home over the cellular network already exists. Wouldn't such a thing require an antenna that you could remove or disable to function? Speaking of... is there a more effective way to disable a cellular modem than removing its antenna? Like some kind of component that you could replace the antenna with that would mitigate any residual antenna-function of the remaining wiring? I want to do this to the modem on my car.
  - danarmak 8y ago
    > is there a more effective way to disable a cellular modem than removing its antenna? Wrap it in aluminum foil as a Faraday cage?
    - CharlesColeman 8y ago
      > Wrap it in aluminum foil as a Faraday cage? That's not a practical solution for a car. Basically, the problem is the car's electronics have a cellular modem component, but I want everything besides that to continue to function and receive other radio signals. I can disconnect the antenna plug, but my understanding is that will just make the reception worse but not eliminate it. I'm wondering if there's something simple and safe that would basically act as an anti-antenna, and absorb or interfere with any signals the rest of the electronics manage to pick up or transmit. I don't know much about electronics, but I was thinking maybe some kind of passive component, like a capacitor or resistor, might be able to soak up any residual signal.
secabeen 8y ago
I don't have any internal data, but I expect that the percentage of Sonos users that play music from a local source is in the single-digit percentage now. The product they sell is focused on supporting streaming audio and voice control, all of which involved 100% monitoring of what you play and ask for. You're just not their customer anymore. You can find old used squeezeboxes on Ebay, and their server software is just a big perl script. That might meet your needs.
apostacy 8y ago
It is such an outrage that it is now just taken for granted that your hardware and software will be remotely attacked by the manufacturer. It doesn't even raise eyebrows anymore. And looking at the Sonos debacle, I don't think they realize how damaging it is to their brand to just make their devices die every so often. Why not just save money and get something that is unreliable because it is cheap and poorly engineered?
Angostura 8y ago
It’s the reason I would never buy Sonos. I’d be interested in seeing an EU user give this the GDPR treatment

by derriz 8y ago

hedora 8y ago

Does anyone know of a good (from a privacy and usability perspective) alternative to Sonos? I plan to buy 5-6 of them sometime later this year, and for what that costs, they have no excuse to data-harvest me.

MayeulC 8y ago
Well, there's snapcast that allows you to relatively simply build an alternative, but I don't know if anyone builds and sells ready-made products. You can probably go by using a couple raspberry pis (or any ARM board with a jack output), a preconfigured SD card image, and some external speakers. I don't know the price of Sonos speakers, but I don't think it would be much higher. I guess someone could even create a business out of this, especially if tailoring the PCBs to the task.
bbeekley 8y ago
What were you looking to get out of a Sonos? If you just want something that can play music wirelessly from various devices, I'd recommend getting a pair of bookshelf speakers and plugging them into one of (Airport Express, Chromecast Audio, Raspberry Pi[1]). You won't be locked into Sonos and generally bookshelf speakers sound better than all-in-one units. I'd love to recommend some speakers if you're interested (e.g. [2]). I have run a few Airport Expresses for the past 10 years and love them. Older models are cheap (<$30) and still work great. [1] https://support.hifiberry.com/hc/en-us/articles/205699981-How-to-build-a-multiroom-audio-system-based-on-Raspberry-Pi-and-Hifiberry https://support.hifiberry.com/hc/en-us/articles/205699981-Ho... [2] https://www.amazon.com/Micca-PB42X-Powered-Bookshelf-Speakers/dp/B00NXAEPDC/ https://www.amazon.com/Micca-PB42X-Powered-Bookshelf-Speaker...
kakarot 8y ago
Low cost SBC (Raspberry Pi, etc) and whatever speakers you'd like. Airsonic or a basic UPnP server as your driver. Take it a step further (if you prefer portability of sound quality) and get an SBC with a bluetooth adapter, and several bluetooth modules which you can rig up to each speaker.
wiml 8y ago
Quite a few people run systems with a Raspberry Pi, a high-quality I2S DAC+amp, and a set of (normal, non-internet-connected, firmware-free) speakers. There's a tiny industry of producing hardware and software for this situation. "Usability" means very different things to different people (after all, the reason Sonos asks for location access is to improve usability), but maybe look at https://volumio.org/ https://volumio.org/, http://www.runeaudio.com/ http://www.runeaudio.com/, http://moodeaudio.org/ http://moodeaudio.org/. Or just install MPD and Pianobar for that old school experience.
secabeen 8y ago
Do you want to stream audio from online streaming services, or just play local files from your NAS/PC?
auxbuss 8y ago
I've used Libratone [0] for years. Superb products. Excellent audio. [0] https://www.libratone.com/ https://www.libratone.com/
georgebarnett 8y ago
You don’t mention which ecosystem you live in. I’m very happy with my Apple Homepods. The sound quality is great and I trust Apple with privacy. I don’t use Siri at all (I have disabled the microphone) and so for me they’re purely network speakers which are very easy to use and look after themselves with updates.
wilsonnb3 8y ago
Bose has a competing range called Soundtouch, no idea what their privacy is like but usability is good.

lazyjones 8y ago

Sounds like lawmakers need to enforce warnings labels on such products: „works only with sensitive data collection“ or similar.

ryanbrunner 8y ago
This is worse, in a way - from what I can tell at the point of purchase the system didn't have the problematic data collection - that was added later in an update. Even a savvy consumer who researched which product to buy would be screwed in this circumstance. It does seem to me that once a product is purchased, it ought to remain usable and supported under the terms it was purchased under, but that seems a long way from the current laws around user agreements.
- bunderbunder 8y ago
  The law could include a ban on firmware updates that subsequently introduce and require sensitive data collection post-purchase. That said, I'm not sure you can really pin this down. It's probably better to just assume that any device that requires a wi-fi connection to work is phoning home until proven otherwise. And you have to assume that any device that phones home is collecting data. It's not even a secret that this is the case. Pretty much every time I go to a lunch-and-learn for a data product, the major premise of the obligatory client case study is, "We sell this consumer product that does X, but our most exciting product is actually all the data we can harvest from it and then resell."
  - lazyjones 8y ago
    > The law could include a ban on firmware updates that subsequently introduce and require sensitive data collection post-purchase. This is IMHO a broader issue with products that receive firmware or OTA updates, it's probably legally a breach of contract already to modify products after sale and change functionality to the disadvantage of the consumer.
    - bunderbunder 8y ago

close04 8y ago

My Sonos system is by far the biggest slice in the “Blocked” pie chart of my PiHole dashboard. I have no idea how much dat still ends up on their servers because I didn’t bother to dig too deeply yet. Next step is different VLAN with no internet access.

close04 8y ago
Just for conformity so I don't bash and run, it seems Philips (Hue) has taken the crown recently with ~30 times more attempts to call home then the next culprit, Microsoft. MS also snuck ahead of Sonos. A lot of these attempts are probably due to the fact that they fail and keep retrying. Possibly allowing them all would lead to far fewer attempts.

conesus 8y ago

If you're interested, I sell a dedicated Sonos music controller (built out of wood no less). It's available at https://turntouch.com https://turntouch.com and it's entirely open source so you don't have to worry about me taking your data and selling it. Earning money based on the initial sale is all that I want out of my users. That and props.

efsavage 8y ago
Seems cool, and perhaps I'm missing something, but it appears to require a closed-source app from a walled-garden app store to configure it, so it could easily be made useless if the app disappears?
- conesus 8y ago
  Check it out, 100% open source: https://github.com/samuelclay/turntouch-ios https://github.com/samuelclay/turntouch-ios. The Mac app, the firmware, and even the CAD and CAM designs are also there. And I documented everything so you can get a peek into how it was built if you want to change the designs for yourself. http://ofbrooklyn.com/2019/01/3/building-turntouch/ http://ofbrooklyn.com/2019/01/3/building-turntouch/ Everything I build I want to last beyond myself. So beyond the source code I also write about the why for everything. That it improves sales is a nice bonus.
e40 8y ago
Can I ask how it works to protect my data from Sonos? Don't they still get all the same data?
- conesus 8y ago
  What you do with the remote is between you and what you control. I store anonymous metrics that I use to gauge usage levels but you can turn that off. Sonos undoubtedly takes your listening habits and profits off that data but Turn Touch does not, even though it has access to that data.
  - 8y ago

CyberDildonics 8y ago

I can't see how situations like this aren't anything but a bait and switch. You buy something, it changes out from under you.

avh02 8y ago
This is why I'm getting sick of cloud services like Dropbox and I'm trying to bring it all back under my roof Example: Dropbox's $99 plan used to be able to share a link with password protection, that's been conveniently moved to their $199 plan. This simply can't happen with self hosted/controlled alternatives that you control updates to.
- TuringNYC 8y ago
  I've found Dropbox to be notorious with this. Their business plan used to be only $150/yr (Fine Print: you pay minimum 3 seats.) That magically changed to five seats at some point and now the $150/yr suddenly shows up as $750/yr auto-renewed and almost impossible to cancel.
  - illegalsmile 8y ago
    Is there not an alternative to Dropbox that offers better service for the same if not lower cost? I understand that they could pull the same bait and switch on you but maybe there are providers who wouldn't do that or grandfather you in.
    - TuringNYC 8y ago
      I eventually completely terminated the account and moved to Google Drive. I got lured into DropBox because I was an editor to a book that required DropBox to access manuscripts. The way they were set up, I ended up having to upgrade to a business user given the shared file sizes I was editing (had something to do with the book publisher being on a business account as well.) I ended up paying more for DropBox than I even made as an editor. Brutal. It felt like a mobile phone contract: seemingly inexpensive, sneaky, convoluted, and before you know you have a gigantic bill committed to for the year. That is why i cut the cord on my cable tv. I dont understand how companies can accept the ill-will of bait-and-switch tactics -- is it really more profitable than an upfront deal where each party feels it was an honest deal? I mean, I dont mind paying...but I want know know what i'll be paying and decide accordingly. Cable TV is a virtual monopoly, but DropBox is not and I dont know how they can deal with ill-will from former customers, once bit twice shy.

Casseres 8y ago

> They used to sell dedicated controllers/remotes years ago but these were also bricked as part of an upgrade about a year or two ago. Would a class-action be successful in a situation like this?

MaxBarraclough 8y ago
Years back, Sony updated the PS3's software to remove the 'otherOS' feature (i.e. the ability to run Linux). Apparently they lost the class action, but only paid out a couple months ago. http://www.otherossettlement.com/ http://www.otherossettlement.com/

ajmurmann 8y ago

Come to think of it, this is the real work rivaled of an API breaking change. It seems entirely reasonable to that we should have regulation that prohibits this kind of change after you've already purchased the product. But then again, in a sane system, you should either need to sign the user agreement for anything at purchase time or be allowed to return a device whenever you encounter a the (new) user agreement. Currently you might buy something that you cannot return and only then at the user agreement. The user aren't should be seen as pay of the purchase contract and the purchase shouldn't be valid without it being signed.

PurpleBoxDragon 8y ago
A sane system would consider the knowledge and power differences between the average individual and the corporate lawyers who wrote the agreement, along with the one sided nature of the agreement, and void any consent as not having been possible to give. Likely the agreement would be treated as one signed by a child, where the more powerful party is the only one bound by it.

rsync 8y ago

"... Unfortunately I have a Sonos system ..." How very funny - as I read the OP and was clicking into the HN comments, all that I had on my mind was "Sonos". I wish I had the time to clearly and succinctly elucidate the path of Sonos, corrupted by the mobile ecosystem and a reach for easy profits, from a darling hardware provider that users loved to a wannabe data broker that I hate-use.

periya 8y ago

I have been on the fence of buying a Sonos because I've always loved the sound quality but I could never bring myself to spend so much on them, your comment along with comments in this thread have made my decision easier. I'm going to stick with my dumb speakers and avoid all the hassle that comes with "smart" devices.

distances 8y ago
Building a dumb system will also provide a much better audio quality if you're willing to spend some time researching what to do. Plus it's of course more flexible as all parts are replaceable separately.

tokyodude 8y ago

I know I'm in the extreme minority here but I also hate Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, Spotify, Apple Music, and even Youtube tracking what I watch. For youtube I watch lots of things in incognito mode. I like the idea of getting recommendations. I hate the idea of a profile being built on me. Yes I get this Sonos is arguably worse since they're spying on stuff not from a service. iTunes does this as well though you can opt out. Oculus does it too. No opt out there AFAIK. Steam as well. You can add in PS4/Switch/Xbox too. Does the law preventing companies sharing your video rental history apply to internet companies and streaming music, videos, and games?

pdkl95 8y ago

> by having it run on a disconnected network This is only a temporary solution to the problem of devices phoning home against your wishes (or knowledge). The "system-on-a-chip" CPUs used in embedded ("smart") devices with an integrated cellular (LTE/etc) modem have existed for years[1]. The hardware that can simply bypass your local network and phone home over the cellular network already exists. The people that want to spy on everyone for profit will no longer ask for internet access through your LAN when someone finally negotiates with the carriers for some sort of low-priority/off-peak access they can use to batch-upload their eavesdropping ("analytics"). [1] random example from "Q4 3014" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exynos#List_of_ARMv8_Exynos_SoCs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exynos#List_of_ARMv8_Exynos_So...

CharlesColeman 8y ago
> The hardware that can simply bypass your local network and phone home over the cellular network already exists. Wouldn't such a thing require an antenna that you could remove or disable to function? Speaking of... is there a more effective way to disable a cellular modem than removing its antenna? Like some kind of component that you could replace the antenna with that would mitigate any residual antenna-function of the remaining wiring? I want to do this to the modem on my car.
- danarmak 8y ago
  > is there a more effective way to disable a cellular modem than removing its antenna? Wrap it in aluminum foil as a Faraday cage?
  - CharlesColeman 8y ago
    > Wrap it in aluminum foil as a Faraday cage? That's not a practical solution for a car. Basically, the problem is the car's electronics have a cellular modem component, but I want everything besides that to continue to function and receive other radio signals. I can disconnect the antenna plug, but my understanding is that will just make the reception worse but not eliminate it. I'm wondering if there's something simple and safe that would basically act as an anti-antenna, and absorb or interfere with any signals the rest of the electronics manage to pick up or transmit. I don't know much about electronics, but I was thinking maybe some kind of passive component, like a capacitor or resistor, might be able to soak up any residual signal.

secabeen 8y ago

I don't have any internal data, but I expect that the percentage of Sonos users that play music from a local source is in the single-digit percentage now. The product they sell is focused on supporting streaming audio and voice control, all of which involved 100% monitoring of what you play and ask for. You're just not their customer anymore. You can find old used squeezeboxes on Ebay, and their server software is just a big perl script. That might meet your needs.

apostacy 8y ago

It is such an outrage that it is now just taken for granted that your hardware and software will be remotely attacked by the manufacturer. It doesn't even raise eyebrows anymore. And looking at the Sonos debacle, I don't think they realize how damaging it is to their brand to just make their devices die every so often. Why not just save money and get something that is unreliable because it is cheap and poorly engineered?

Angostura 8y ago

It’s the reason I would never buy Sonos. I’d be interested in seeing an EU user give this the GDPR treatment