20 ms·

Why I hate the weekends (2017)

• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• wilkystyle 8y ago
  > I feel like my whole life is centered around work. Even though I work a (what is considered) reasonable 40-hour work-week, I feel like too much of time is taken away from me. Not only is it actually being in the office but commuting too. My morning are devoted to getting ready for work: dressing up, packing up a lunch and so on. As someone who also works a reasonable 40-hour a week job, I cannot emphasize enough how much of a difference working remote has made. I used to commute an hour each direction in the DC area, and (like the author) spent time preparing meals, getting dressed, etc. I have since moved to the NC area to work remote, and quality of life improvement is incredible: - I can get to work immediately with no commute, and when I'm done, I don't have to get in a car to get home. - Lunch break involves making a healthy lunch in my own kitchen, then reading a book while I eat in the comfort of my own home. - I am a coffee enthusiast, and I love being able to make a french press, pour-over, or cold brew right in my kitchen. - Crappy weather and accidents on the roads no longer have any effect on my workday. - I get the exact office setup I want. - I can go work at a coffee shop, an outdoor park, or even at the beach (all of which I have done), if I want a change of scenery. WRT to the central point: I hate the _concept_ of living for the weekend, and have taken intentional and proactive steps to ensure that I don't fall into that trap. Just a few examples: - Get up early, and make time for what matters. I like to work out in the mornings, and also make sure to do any hobbies or side projects during this time, as my brain is fresh. - Make yourself stop working at the appropriate time. This will differ depending on your job and your personal preference, but I draw a line in the sand and do not let myself work any later than 6 PM. My personal time is very important to me, and even though I love my job, I will never choose it over my personal time. - Make sure to do things you like during the week, too. This really just involves not allowing yourself to believe that you can only make time for yourself on the weekends. Sometimes I'll get up early and meet someone for breakfast at a restaurant, sometimes I'll do a fun hobby in the evening, like rock climbing. If your job is flexible enough you could even step away for a quick break during the day to do something outside, like bicycling or kayaking, if that's your thing. edit: Formatting
  • agumonkey 8y ago
    Seems that you have an innate talent for regularity. For some it's tough to get moving when home after a while. Some get lonely. All your points are super valid and super obvious and moving to an office involves so much drag it's insane.. but we need to learn a few balancing tricks for remote work too. Cheers
    • atemerev 8y ago
      I don’t have any talents for regularity (diagnosed adult ADD), but I work 100% remotely for the last few years, and I was never happier. Office environment is a strain for people like me.
      • agumonkey 8y ago
        And is remote work almost free of problems or is it more a case of so much benefits that even the few problems are barely worrying ?
        • atemerev 8y ago
          There are different problems. I have to overcome procrastination, sure, and regular meetings are a strain, but if I want to work at nights, I can. If I want to go for a walk and think, I can. The balance is much better.
          • agumonkey 8y ago
            I remember a friend who needed to have naps the afternoon, but his 'ethos' didn't allow him to do so. So he fought sleep for hours while doing nothing productive..
  • nickjj 8y ago
    I've been working remotely my whole life (freelance developer). It's interesting how jaded I am of driving in general. There are certain intersections in my town where it's common to get stuck at a red light that lasts for minutes. Things like this put me on complete life tilt. All I think about is "how can anyone put up with this every day?". I'm no longer surprised why people go berserk out of no where. I really don't know how people do it. Getting stuck in traffic or waiting on long red lights sucks the life out of you because it's such an utter waste of time. Maybe I'm just not used to it (I drive, but it's usually outside of rush hour), but man, I am pretty sure I couldn't exist in a world where I had to do the traffic grind daily.
• losvedir 8y ago
  Huh, for what it's worth, this doesn't resonate with me at all. I appreciate the author sharing how they feel but really don't like the "we"s and "our"s, since they're not expressing some universal truth.
  • lbacaj 8y ago
    Totally agree with you. I think the biggest reason this is not universal is because not everybody hates their job or working. I get an incredible amount of Joy doing what I do. So much so that when I get home I have plenty of energy to do a little more on my own personal projects. This is obviously not true every single day but the vast majority of days it is. That dosent mean I don’t love my wife or my family, quite the contrary I spend as much time as possible with them and love them very much. But it does mean that I don’t love TV or much of the other bullshit. This article is a great read, with a different sort of take on life: https://blog.stephsmith.io/you-dont-need-to-quit-your-job-to-make/ https://blog.stephsmith.io/you-dont-need-to-quit-your-job-to...
    • gnulinux 8y ago
      I love my work too. But this still resonates with me. Yesterday I left work at 8:30. Why? Because I'm designing a software architecture that will change a lot of people's lives around the world and I ended up having this stimulating conversion about our design with my coworker. Nobody does this if they don't like their work. I do this only because I believe I'm capable of contributing something to conversation, and I want to contribute. But we're all humans and I think having entirely exhaust on weekends is pretty expected after working hard for 5 days. I hate weekends because I'd much rather working. I hate weekends because it gives me this existential crisis, it makes me feel like I'm not doing anything with my life.
      • JohnBooty 8y ago
        That's cool, and I've been there, but not a lot of people will have that opportunity in their careers... and certainly not on a regular basis. Idealists will say not to take a job unless it lets you do something cool and world-changing like that. Well okay, but there is a LOT of code to be written in the world. Somebody has to write the boring stuff. And 99.999% of it is boring. If every developer held out for the chance to write the fun stuff the world would just not work. It's like if everybody held out for some kind of job they passionately cared about. Theoretically cool, but who'd sweep the floors and shovel the horse shit out of the stables?
• adamnemecek 8y ago
  > I want to spend time partaking in my hobbies on the weekend. However, I often find myself lifeless and staring blankly out the window. My mind is tired, my body is fatigued. By the time I'm fully rested it's Sunday night. At that point, it's time to head to bed and start the cycle of work again. This in particular resonates. I used to be in the same sitch. Eventually it became unbearable, a random 3 hours errand would ruin my week. How much could I have accomplished in those 3 hours, I was telling myself. I was also trying to work on a startup in my spare time but it wasn't possible. Sometimes, you spend half day fixing some build system and by next week, you'll forget where you left off. Eventually I had to quit my job to maintain my sanity. It's insane how much you can accomplish in a good week. I recommend it to anyone questioning their current employment situation. Hit me up (email is in my profile) if you want to explore this life style. The crazy thing is that even if you fail, you’ll be ten times the programmer as when you left. Two IRL friends quit their jobs to work on their own startups or freelance. I've also convinced one person here on HN to do the same. Those startup ideas might be more realistic than you realize, if you are given enough time.
• gnulinux 8y ago
  This resonates with me. I love my work, I really like what I do, I think it's mentally challenging, interesting, and important for our world and civilization and I believe I'm compensated well enough. But it's tiring ok? And all I can ever do on weekends is lying on my bed watching netflix. I work 9 to 6 and work out intensely for 2 hours every week day. By the time it's saturday I'm both physically and mentally exhaust. I cannot do anything other than sleeping. Of course this is not a good situation for various reasons: no friends, no relationships, no hobbies. Just work, gym, and recovering from those two. I like this for a lot of reasons (which is why I do it) but I acknowledge that my life is also pathetic. I wouldn't be surprised if I died alone.
  • laurex 8y ago
    Please read Feeling Good by Dr. David Burns, or even check out the website he maintains. He gives lots of resources for DIY Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, if you want to give that a shot before professional help.
  • lostgame 8y ago
    First off, it seems as though your gym schedule is very intense and easing on that may help especially the physical aspect of what you’re going through. Secondly, I strongly recommend, if you don’t already, to just maybe see a therapist? It seems like you’ve got some cool things going on and like you could be a cool person, and sometimes it’s tough to reach out. I had to myself recently.
    • 01100011 8y ago
      Seriously. If they're hitting the gym with any sort of intensity, 2 hours a day is going to leave you destroyed on the weekends. 3-4 days a week is plenty. Your body needs to rebuild.
      • matwood 8y ago
        2 hours/day at 100% intensity is a lot, but I have found doing something physical everyday to be key to mental health, sleeping better, and general well being. Very people go 100% even when they go to the gym 3x/week, so I don't want others reading this thinking that is all they need. In fact, people will be surprised what the body can do (go read up on ultra-marathoners, etc...). Few regular gym goers are even close to needing rest days, and instead use it as an excuse not to go.
• tobr 8y ago
  If you work 5 days, 2 day weekend, that’s 150% more workdays than days off. Replace just one of those workdays with a day off, and it drops radically - just 33% more workdays than days off.
  • cheschire 8y ago
    4x10's, and cut mondays out of your life.
    • JohnBooty 8y ago
      Most employers want 5x10's from their workers. Even if they're strict about 4x10 or 5x8 as a software dev I find it winds up being more like 50+ hour week anyway because of the need to invest in continuing education (which is 99% reinventing the wheel in Today's Favorite Framework/Language, but that's how it goes)
  • eertami 8y ago
    I went one further and dropped down to 3 days a week. I earn less now sure but I get 3 full days to commit to hobbies/activities AND a no-guilt dedicated rest day. I'm in my mid-late twenties however, where the time is certainly much more valuable to me. A lot of the things I find most fun are rather physically demanding, you can go much harder for much longer on a mountain bike or on skis the younger you are. I guess there's an argument that you can retire earlier if you work more right, but I think I'd get less out of that than having more time now. Maybe that'll prove to be a mistake in the long run, who knows.
    • wukerplank 8y ago
      How do you do it? In which industry/role are you working? Employed or freelance? Asking for a friend.
      • eertami 8y ago
        Software developer for a financial services company. Employee at first, went freelance for unrelated reasons. Honestly there wasn't much to it I just asked, but also made it clear I'd be leaving if the answer was no. Company already had some part-timers (though they are mostly new parents, so our motivations differ.)
• symmitchry 8y ago
  I used to work a 4-day week (a true 32-hour week, not 4 x 10 or something) and it was the greatest thing I've ever done. All the "weekend stuff" you can do on your extra day, and get two full days off. I can't believe how great it was.
  • ioddly 8y ago
    I just switched to every other Friday off and it seems like it will help a lot. I can never relax until like Saturday evening and then Sunday it's like welp, back to work.
  • __abc 8y ago
    What made you stop doing this? I'm currently doing something similar at the moment, and I can't imagine I would want to go back to a traditional M-F 9-5 schedule.
  • rabidrat 8y ago
    Same here. There is a world of difference between 32 hours/week and 40/week. I'm looking forward to being more settled in my current job so I can move back to 4 days/week (and be more productive too).
    • kefabean 8y ago
      I’ve just been hired by big tech (TM) working 4 days a week. Have done this in the last 2-3 jobs. Ask for it (after you have been made an offer), blaze the trail. We can make this become the norm!
  • Narushia 8y ago
    Though I’m young and have little work experience, I’ve already started to think that a ~30-hour work week would be optimal for the rest of my life. My current work place is very flexible in work hours and days, so I decided to do 6-hour days. I think it leaves me enough time to get daily activities & hobbies done and relax. I really enjoy my work. However, I still occasionally think to myself “man, this kinda sucks”. I think it’s because I feel the need to put my productivity in something original, something that is born from my personal passion only. After I graduated from college, I actually kept a year-long “break” and just stayed at home. On this “break”, I set up daily tasks for myself to see what I could accomplish on my own. I did creative, productive stuff from 5 to 7 hours a day. I was learning Spanish. Programming. Piano. All on my own. It was a really awesome year. The problem in the long run, of course, is that I don’t get any money from those. It was only possible because I was still living with my parents. I would really like to do all of those activities as often as I could back then, but it’s just not possible now with a job. I hope to soon have a solution for this: a business. Currently I’m slowly working on a software project on my free time, with the aim of it eventually creating a solid income, with a relatively small need of maintenance. Not overly confident that it’ll work out, but I’ll do my best to be able to do the stuff I want, as long as I want, while also being able to live comfortably. That’s the dream.
• z3t4 8y ago
  Get 4 weeks off, then spend it off grid, the more primitive the better, fighting the elements and hunting for food. When you get home you will be really happy just having a warm bed. That's for motivation. But then there's your brain being completely fried by the end of the weekend, be glad that you do not have a mundane repetitive work (or be glad if you do).
• mavhc 8y ago
  We moved from a 7 day working week to a 6 day working week about 2000 years ago, and to 5 days about 100 years ago, it's time to move to 4 days. In addition the 5th day should be used for lifelong education, people should be expected to learn about all the new things that have been invented since they left school, or refresh what they're not good at.
  • JohnBooty 8y ago
    > In addition the 5th day should be used for lifelong education It's tough because in tech, spending significant time (probably totaling about a day per week) needs to be spent on continuing education and employers (and spouses) are not keen on letting it happen on "their" time. I've been doing Ruby on Rails for four years and even that -- a relatively stable, mature framework -- is a grindy treadmill of continual learning because any project you're rotated onto will have 492 gems you're not familiar with, most of which are utility classes but some of which are essentially miniframeworks. I can barely consider myself "full stack" at this point because I think even fulltime JS devs must struggle with that explosion.
    • james_s_tayler 8y ago
      I'd love to do 4 days work 1 day education for exactly this reason. Though I've come to point where I'm starting to approach it strategically. For the most part the only thing that really matters is how employable you are. So long as you can find a job that meets your standards you are fine as you learn the minutiae on the job and it's always different for every job so you can't prepare in advance. With that in mind this year I'm focusing mostly on the fundamentals doing deep dives into knowledge with extremely long half-life. I've got about 280 hours of courses I'm making my way through on Pluralsight this year. I'm about 1/4 the way through. Just started my SQL playlist and already I'm so glad I'm taking the time to dive deep on it. The difference between now and the end of the year will be night and day.
  • eeZah7Ux 8y ago
    In many rural societies work and leisure were constantly intermixed. An craftsman/shopkeeper/farmer could spend 110 hours a week on the workplace while doing 20 hours of active work.
• AznHisoka 8y ago
  Once you have kids, you cherish Mondays and weekdays much more..
  • daxfohl 8y ago
    https://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/parenting-comics-89-58a431c0d84d4__700.jpg https://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/0...
  • james_s_tayler 8y ago
    Omg so it's not just me. For a while maybe I thought Im just a bad person for feeling that way.
• ffttggyyhh 8y ago
  Omg the whining!! I love blog that take someone's personal experience and assumes everyone's exactly the same
• tirumaraiselvan 8y ago
  TLDR: Author doesn't have enough time in weekends to rest properly.
• rb808 8y ago
  Honestly I hate these self-absorbed, live-is-tough posts by Software Developers doing creative work in a nice air conditioned office. Get a real job, try milking a few hundred cows at 6am, work as a cop in a bad city, or outside in construction when its freezing or scorching hot. Not to mention doing it on a 20k wage with a few kids. I get it, figuring out how to get our software working can require a lot of thinking, but compared to most of the people out there its a sweet gig. Stop complaining. Edit: I don't want to sound snarky as this is. I realize lots of us do work really hard and don't have much time for anything else, but that's just adult life.
  • sverige 8y ago
    I suspect many people's exhaustion may come from the suppressed awareness that the work on which they're spending so much time and energy is ultimately futile, ephemeral, and perhaps even harmful. I felt the same way some years ago and decided to completely change my life to focus on family time and work that provides a sense of real accomplishment. I'm a few steps lower on the social ladder, I suppose, but my life is so much better that I truly don't give a shit about that. Getting to the point where I was willing to change required going several layers deeper than I had gone before, though, and there were some very painful realizations along the way. Just a mild warning for anyone who might want to do the same thing. P.S. I truly enjoy weekends now. I previously felt much the same way about them as the author.
    • quickthrower2 8y ago
      Do you mind sharing your before and after job role?
      • sverige 8y ago
        To avoid the risk of seeming to be prescriptive, I'll just say that I had a reasonably sound resume with mostly middle management experience in litigation, insurance, telephone technology, and operations. (Those fields seem unrelated even to me when summarized, but there was a logical progression.) I am now working my dream job, which is solidly blue collar. It pays well enough, I still use my mind, and it is mostly not dull or repetitive. (I've worked a few of those, too, both white and blue collar.) There are a lot more of those kinds of blue collar jobs than many middle management types realize. Most of my old coworkers are long gone from my social circle, but in retrospect, that always happened when I went from one company to the next anyway.
• jondubois 8y ago
  Today I just wasted the second half of the day doing nothing at all; just watching mind-numbing videos on Youtube. I had been working on a side project most weekends for the last 10 years and been particularly busy in the last year so I forgot what it felt like to just waste time. Wasting time feels great. In this cut-throat competitive industry, it does feel like a luxury through. As a software engineer, I can't afford to not be on the cutting edge. I have the feeling that if I stopped working for just 6 months, my career would be over.
  • throwaway875u58 8y ago
    Just as a counter-point: I took off 3 years to stay home with kids. I recently started a new position after very little time looking with a >80k raise. I've felt the same pressure to stay current. But, turns out it's all about how you can frame what you bring to the table vs what you can't.
    • james_s_tayler 8y ago
      More and more I think this is true. But with a huge caveat that you actually have to be able to bring something to the table and know well what it is.
  • Ocerge 8y ago
    I'm not convinced that's true. I guess it depends on what your goals are, but I would argue the majority of devs in the American workforce don't stay on the cutting edge of anything. Getting a software dev job is still quite easy as long as you are mildly competent.
  • matwood 8y ago
    > I have the feeling that if I stopped working for just 6 months, my career would be over. That's not true. There are many companies who are still writing and maintaining new code in Java 1.6 for example. > Today I just wasted the second half of the day doing nothing at all; just watching mind-numbing videos on Youtube. I try to do this and just can't. I get antsy. When I 'binge' Netflix is max 2 episodes and I have to go do something. Usually, I just go workout. If I've already worked out twice, then I'll read a book. Or, I'll work on the long list of home projects I have going on, etc...
• opportune 8y ago
  We're definitely ready for a 4 day week. It might be the best way to reduce inequality within wage-earners too when you consider how many people are underemployed or are part-time workers who want to work full time - those people stand to massively benefit. However I do think the author is making it sound harder than it is... if you don't have kids, I don't see how you can run out of time on the weekends to do basic things or not do those things during the week (esp. chores and errands). I also experience a general feeling of malaise thinking about time wasted during the weekends on internet/games/socializing when I could have been cultivating new skills or working on entrepreneurship but that's definitely mostly my fault.
  • vricius 8y ago
    work on entrepreneurship... you may be working 24/7 at first but the freedom it creates is worth it in the end
• colemickens 8y ago
  Ah, someone wrote down some of the reasons I'm terrified to go back into tech. Not because it's unavoidable to be sucked into working a 60 hour week for a soulless company that doesn't care other than to use you as cheaply as possible... but because I am afraid I will let it happen to myself again. You know the phrase, "working for the weekend"? From the actual hours in office, piled up non-work responsibilities, constant stress from the job... I was working all of the time for... for what, retirement? That's a horrifying thing to think through end-to-end, especially when you step back from your job for a while to realize, in most cases, for most people, it's just a job. American culture is masochistically obsessed with attaching human value and worth to "work ethic" or "career success". It's a nice distraction (probably not on accident), but I'm fairly there's more to life and I glad it didn't take 30 straight years working to figure that out. And now I guess I'm repeating it here to try and solidify it for myself.
• daxfohl 8y ago
  This is funny because I've always actually hated weekends. I try to do something "fun" or at least whatever people think of as "weekend-y", go out for a hike, work out, whatever, but ... most of the time I feel like it's just time wasted. I'd far rather have a six-day work week, or perhaps even seven, and then three consecutive months off per year to do some real travel or something. Pretty sure this is a minority viewpoint, but curious if anyone else feels the same.
  • ghaff 8y ago
    I certainly don't hate weekends or days off here and there generally. That said, if I were to take more time off (and I get reasonably generous for the US time as it is) I would definitely want it in a form where I could use it for extended travel time rather than extended weekends.
• nathan_f77 8y ago
  Some possible solutions: 1) Ask for a 30 hour work week, or find a company that can offer this. Your salary should still be high enough to aim for a comfortable retirement at 65. 2) Adopt a more frugal lifestyle and increase your savings rate. You need to save a few million dollars to retire with $40-$80k in investment income. It should be very possible to do this with a backend developer's salary over a period of 10-15 years, and then you should be able to retire in your 30s or 40s. You should also aim to increase your salary by changing jobs every few years (or get a job at a FAANG.) 3) Build side projects or a startup and try to get some passive income (or an exit) Write all your startup ideas down and keep looking for opportunities. It can be hard to build products in the evenings or weekends, especially if you're already burnt out from your normal job. So this option works best when combined with part-time freelance work: 4) Become a freelancer and work part-time while you work on your own projects Bonus: Move to a place with a very low cost of living. Working 10-20 hours per week gives you a lot of free time and much longer weekends. But it also gives you a lot of time and energy to work on your own ideas. Note that working 10 hours per week is a terrible idea if you just spend the rest of your time working on hobbies that don't make any money. If you do that, then you won't even be able to retire at 65, and you probably won't be able to save money for emergencies. Only do this if you spend the rest of your time trying to build a business. If you can't get anything to work after ~10 years of trying, then you should still have plenty of time to go back to a full-time job and save for retirement.
  • AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
    > You need to save a few million dollars to retire with $40-$80k in investment income. You need a lot less than a few million dollars if you're willing to live at a more reasonable retirement income. I mean, you won't have to commute anymore, or buy all those services that did things you never had time for, or pay for daycare, or live in an overpriced city, etc. Hell if you move to a country with a lower cost of living, as you suggested, you'll need even less. You would be surprised how little of what you consider "necessities" of your lifestyle you actually need, or miss when they are gone.
    • nathan_f77 8y ago
• darkmighty 8y ago
  What I don't understand here: Why can't we just work less? I know it's not trivial, but it can't be impossible either. I doubt he would starve if he got a part-time dev job (are those easy to find? I have no idea). I agree wholeheartedly with all that he said. I think a life of work-home-work without breathing is almost meaningless unless you can have possibly unreasonable amounts of fun and freedom in the job (few if any industries allow/demand this kind of work). Indeed if a job allows for fun and freedom markets will usually exploit this advantage to try and push you to work even more (if you let them of course). I'm still a student but I'll certainly look for a job that's either totally fulfilling (rare) or allows as much freedom as possible while maintaining a reasonable lifestyle and quality of life.
  • war1025 8y ago
    The first step to working less is being in a comfortable enough financial position that you can push your boundaries without worrying that if it backfires you'll be out of work and behind on your bills. Once you have the money to cushion the blow, you can start pushing back on demands for your time with a lot more confidence. A thing I've personally found is that my employer just wants results and things done on time and when needed. They don't particularly care how much time I'm physically in the office working.
  • Synaesthesia 8y ago
    The biggest reason is because bosses don’t want us to. They want to make as much money as possible, and that’s about it really. The good news is we have made progress, through mass action, people have won the right to weekends, fewer hours and other rights. The final battle is one to win control of the workplace itself, a self-managed and owned workplace.
    • thatfrenchguy 8y ago
      In tech in SV, so many stupid things happen because people work too much. Self-organizing is a challenge as well though.
      • 8y ago
• adomanico 8y ago
  It seems to me, this has nothing to do with a 40 hour work week. This person has overcommitted themselves in their personal life to the point where it is conflicting with their work responsibilities.
  • bcook 8y ago
    /s(arcasm) ?
• nathias 8y ago
  if you don't like what you're doing, stop doing it
  • rootusrootus 8y ago
    That is pretty trite. Most people don't have that luxury.
    • WaltPurvis 8y ago
      True. It's also true that most people don't have the luxury of complaining that 40 hours of indoor office work is too hard (even downright unethical and inhumane). Most people in the world wouldn't even be able to conceive of the concept of complaining about the inhumane torture of having to do 40 hours of indoor office work per week.
      • Top5a 8y ago
        The fact that they alluded to their predicament being unethical or inhumane made me actually laugh out loud. The author is absolutely delusional. Even funnier, my initial response was that there must be some dietary or medical/hormonal issue, prior to reading the article. I was downvoted for this almost immediately. Then, whilst reading the article, came across this gem >On top of that, I'm mentally ill and thoroughly medicated< So, I was correct, and yet was downvoted. Really makes you think, doesn't it?
      • rootusrootus 8y ago
        People in that position are also very unlikely to be reading posts on Hacker News, so I think it is okay to exclude them from consideration when judging the merits of the blog post.
    • nathias 8y ago
      It's not a luxury, its a basic fact of life, staying in a job is a decision that you are making.
• jorgesborges 8y ago
  I think the malaise stems more from a personal sense of dissatisfaction than it does the objective conditions of an oppressive work week. Either accept the trade-off, develop a better attitude toward it, or change your life.
• sebastianconcpt 8y ago
  My impression is that the author needs to take entrepreneurship more seriously instead of ranting about changing the universe to fit its current comfort zone.
• YeahSureWhyNot 8y ago
  LMAO the author complains about all the chores that come with high maintenance life. well, go minimalist.
  • YeahSureWhyNot 8y ago
    all the programmer manchildren down voting for stating the obvious:) bitch boys:)
• miguelmota 8y ago
  Many software developers are 9 to 5-ers meaning when they get home they don't do any more programming and don't do programming on the weekend either. They do most of their learning while on the job. These programmers are of course mediocre at best and typically work at slow paced large companies with lower pay but they're satisfied with their work/life balance and there is nothing wrong with that. If the author is complaining that work leaks into the weekends then perhaps he should communicate with his colleagues and managers to figure out which processes in their workflow can be fixed to avoid that. He also has the ability to jump to another company if he feels his current company is too demanding. Everyone has 24 hours in a day; use it wisely, especially doing something you're good at that makes you money but also enjoy.
  • Top5a 8y ago
    Spot on. Which is why you are being downvoted (no, not sarcastic) for offending the sensibilities of the self-entitled masses who have no innate drive for self-improvement.
  • wilsonnb3 8y ago
    > These programmers are of course mediocre at best This is very elitist and not true. 40 hours a week for 20 years is more than enough to be considered “good” at the very least.
    • Top5a 8y ago
      Afraid not. The "good" programmers/engineers/whathaveyou are, more often that not, the ones that proverbially "live and breathe" their craft, and have done so for a very large amount of, how should I say, "units of actual work-effort." Pulling all-nighters on personal projects just for the fun of it, constantly learning and improving for the sheer bliss of the challenge and seeking of knowledge, these are the "good" programmers. They are putting in concentrated, heavy effort, which is far in excess of a mere 40-hours of unfocused, drone-tier non-effort per week. It is also why there are teenagers who can sprint circles around big-corporate code monkeys sporting 35 years of "experience."
    • miguelmota 8y ago
• throwaway713 8y ago
  The "no free time" issue for me is not due to work; it's due to being married — which is a choice I made knowing that I would lose a lot of "me" time. Every so often my wife visits family on the opposite coast for a week or two and suddenly it feels like bucketloads of time have appeared out of nowhere. I imagine once I have children (which I hope to have in the next few years), I will feel even more pressed for time, but I accept that this is just the nature of that decision. Everything is really about trade-offs, but I think if you are single, a 40 hour work week is probably not enough to make you feel like you are on a hedonic treadmill. I'm currently working at my dream company, but over the next few years, my goal is to reach financial independence as quickly as possible via some side project. 95% of startups fail, but at least in the valley, most of these startups are VC funded and have big ambitions. I'd say if your goal is to simply reach $2-3 million for financial independence, the failure rate is a bit lower for some small project that fills a niche market need.
  • photoguy112 8y ago
    We had a kid last year. My time went from some availability to NONE. Granted, we don't have a babysitter, both myself and wife stay at home (I work from home, she doesn't work). Despite both of us being available, just the daily chores and things that must be done with a little one are insane. Ours could be a unique case because my kid is kinda difficult, but it's definitely a huge change from not having kids. That being said I think anyone who recently had a kid and works from home can attest to forming new abilities to manage time super effectively. Before I would waste a lot of time on non-important things, now I know what my priorities are and get things done really fast. I am a lot more focused because of this.
    • moises_silva 8y ago
      And if you have a second kid your availability will go from NONE to negative balance. I remember when I had just one, suddenly now it feels like I had so much time then!
      • photoguy112 8y ago
• quickthrower2 8y ago
  I find the typical work in developer jobs very fatiguing. It involves reading through loads of old code that other people have written over the years, trying to figure out how it all hangs together and where I inject my change in. For some reason that does my head in. Greenfield work is a lot less tiring, but much more rare in my experience. It's also a career path of it's own and hard to get on. I.e. you need greenfield experience to get a coveted greenfield job role. I am considering getting into tutoring/teaching programming and I might find that a lot less tiring, covering the basics X times rather than wrangling the spaghetti code day in and day out.
  • hacker_9 8y ago
    "One mans greenfield project is in a year, another's old code" - proverb 66
    • deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  • Noumenon72 8y ago
    I drop comments and refactor the spaghetti code so that each time I come back to it it gets easier. I think I like that better than greenfield, it's like being a topiary artist instead of a farmer.
    • quickthrower2 8y ago
      Problem with that is it takes a few years at a company before you've seen it all and are comfortable with all of the code. I've been job hopping a lot because, well, had bad experiences with certain companies. I hope I get to stick this one out for a while to get to that comfortable spot of knowing the codebase well.
• Waterluvian 8y ago
  "It's Monday, the dreadful countdown has started. You're already thinking about the end of the week, and it barely started. As the days go by, you are fixated on Friday 5pm." I felt this doing data entry for $20/hr at Elections Ontario. My single most effective co-op term because it really motivated me to get into a career I love and bust my ass to never work a day in my life again.
• coldtea 8y ago
  >Our lives are high maintenance. We need to maintain our relationships with our spouses, friends and family. We need to take care of ourselves with exercise, hygiene and so on. Our houses need to be kept clean and our fridge full of food. And to be able to do all that, we need work to make a wage so we can pay for what keeps us alive. Nothing that a short stint in the developing world doing a non-desk job for a month or so can't help put perspective on...
  • throwaway875u58 8y ago
    Just because there are kids starving in Africa doesn't make me any less hungrier.
    • coldtea 8y ago
      I'd say it does. https://youtu.be/YYfajPXdvSM?t=67 https://youtu.be/YYfajPXdvSM?t=67
  • Noumenon72 8y ago
    Yeah, I worked mandatory 53 hours in a plastic factory for years, sometimes six twelves in seven days. You still manage to take care of most things. Then sometimes when the economy slowed we would go down to 36 hours a week. That would show us just how much time off that actually is. Just working an 8-hour shift instead of 12 means you come home and have four-plus hours of your own time for whatever you want, every single day. After that, programming is so far from exhausting that I work overtime just because I feel like I'm not doing my fair share any more.
• alohomora2 8y ago
  This has already been solved thousands of years ago and it’s called Shabbat, one day of the week of true, strict rest. No doing the laundry, no cooking, no driving the car. In general, no creative activities which modify the world in some way.
  • isostatic 8y ago
    No turning a light on. So instead you get lights on a timer. The lifts that open at every floor. The magic wire that extends your back yard to cover the whole neighbourhood so you can take your kid in a pushchair or carry your house keys when you go for a walk.
    • elwell 8y ago
      That would be straying from the original purpose of the sabbath.
  • maccard 8y ago
    Doesn't this just exacerbate the issue? It means instead of a 5/2, you're restricted to 5/1. I definitely feel that more people should take the time to rest and reflect, but I don't believe that taking 1/7 of my life and devoting it to neutrality would have a positive impact on me, my relationships or even the world!
    • alohomora2 8y ago
      That one day should be spent with family, friends, taking a stroll, meditating, praying, studying, reflecting, napping. It’s not just the negation of work. Some say it’s an “island in time.”
• hhw3h 8y ago
  If the OP's post resonates with you and you are a software engineer, consider hiring a part-time personal / virtual assistant. I haven't heard of software engineers in VC startup land or corporate world hiring personal assistants but in the freelance / consulting world it's very common and an amazing way to "level up" yourself as a professional. It's ok to need help and it's ok to hire someone who enjoys helping with personal or professional admin tasks. You can start out with a virtual assistant for a few hundred bucks a month and can find one on Craigslist or a branded service like Zirtual. I have a VA help with routine marketing / admin tasks in my business and then impromptu one-off personal tasks like booking flights, hiring task rabbits, booking doctors' appointments, etc. I know not everyone is in a place to afford this but I think most engineers are if they are thoughtful about their finances. I'd highly recommend trying it out.
  • thatfrenchguy 8y ago
    Or you know work less
  • AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
    This is such an SV answer. Have a problem with work related stresses? Don't consider changing your relationship with work, take advantage of our new Personal Assistant as a Service platform!
    • hhw3h 8y ago
      Haha I don't live in Silicon Valley. Assuming you're happy with your relationship with work and it's a healthy relationship, and you still don't have enough time, getting professional admin help from someone might help.
    • photoguy112 8y ago
      It makes total sense. If your time is worth way more than theirs (in terms of pay), why not outsource as much of your daily boring, time-consuming work to someone else?
• city41 8y ago
  To add insult to injury I find doing things on the weekend often a chore because everything is so crowded. Around here finding a parking place at the mall, movie theaters, etc is very difficult. There's a beautiful state park that my wife and I love. But to go there on the weekend you gotta arrive either at 6am or 6pm. The parking lot fills up solid, complete with people lurking in their cars waiting for someone to leave. Want to get out of town? Be prepared to sit in lots of traffic. I sometimes seriously wonder if living in such a crowded part of the country is worth it.
  • dominotw 8y ago
    Yeah. I am at ski resort and it's total madness here. I had the whole mountain to myself on Tuesday.
  • colmvp 8y ago
    I had to take a blood test today. Normally if I go my local clinic the wait time is 15 minutes. But because I went on a Saturday the wait was 1-2 hours!!
• rootusrootus 8y ago
  My technique is to remember where the job ranks in my "give a shit about" list and it's not as high as you might assume. I am not irreplaceable, and either is my job. So I try to give a good value for the work I'm paid to do, but at the end of the workday I flip the switch, as it were, and my life is my own. I am militant about not letting my job control me. I am polite but firm with coworkers and managers, and they respect my off-hours time, and I respect theirs. We all have families so that probably helps.
• gdubs 8y ago
  When I was younger I had this job I absolutely hated, and for a while I had these really boring, mundane, night-long, recurring dreams about being at that job. It was the worst. Felt totally trapped. I can relate to the feelings in this article. But, for what it’s worth I’ve found that cognitive behavioral therapy, meditation, and sleep, and exercise, really help.
• danielbraun 8y ago
  You are so whiny and pathetic, you don't realize that you don't need the government for it. You negotiate directly with your employer.
• kome 8y ago
  You don't hate weekends, you hate capitalism.
  • 0xcde4c3db 8y ago
    For those unfamiliar, this is a riff on an anticapitalist slogan: "You don't hate Mondays, you hate capitalism". If you're baffled as to why someone would say this, you might consider Marx's theory of alienation [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_alienation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_alienation
• mrhappyunhappy 8y ago
  The workplace is a means of exhausting humans with mundane labor that enriches a few while making the rest suffer. If you work 9-5 a 5 day week or longer, consider yourself a hamster on a wheel. Business does not share the same values us humans share. To see change you must be the change. Personally, if I ran a company or a startup I’d mandate a 3 day work week - Tuesday to Wed if we absolutely had to meet. Otherwise it would be fully remote and you choose your work days. When I first went out on my own, the line between weekends and workweek melted so I always felt like I was working even on weekends. As time went by I realized that I did not share that feeling the author mentions and it feels great! I can go shopping any time, see a movie at 11 am if I want to on a Monday and skip the crowds when everyone is out doing the same things on the same day. Modern workplaces are not built for productivity- they are places where you go to waste time, time that could be spent on yourself. I used to think business would not compete on a shorter work week but then I looked at how I spent time at work - most of t was idle time once you count the breaks, lunch, chit chat, browsing when you’re fried. All of this added up to a significant amount of time no matter the position I occupied. It gets worse when you are in a managerial position. Why on earth anyone would want to subject themselves to wasting time at work instead of enjoying it at home (unless they had problems at home) is not clear. I think we are stuck in this perpetual need of having to outwork the other. To show that we are hard working and will do anything to provide for our families. Except, in many cases more time does not directly result in more money. Sure, you spend more time sitting on your butt and claiming working hours or because your boss demands it, but are you really getting more done? In an office environment I can tell you with absolute certainty the answer is no. So if you are a manager, a CEO or anyone in a position to do something about this insane self-infliction, please evaluate your values, how you think employees spend their time and be the change.
• nbrempel 8y ago
  I agree strongly with the author’s feelings. Machines and automation have taken on most of the repitive work. Also if the wealth disparity between the rich and the poor is growing, clearly there is room in the budget to relax work schedules for most who want or need it. For jobs that require mostly problem solving, one might argue that a shorter workweek could actually increase productivity. I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. I actually started a newsletter for job listings with shorter hours and other related stuff just last week: https://30hourjobs.com https://30hourjobs.com
• vricius 8y ago
  Rather than have a job, become financially independent. Work to make money, when you have acquired enough money, take a break. Even if you have to work non-stop to get to "enough to take a break", it's MUCH LESS stressful than being on someone else's clock. I look forward to Mondays, that's what happens when you become your own boss. https://boldanddetermined.com/t-g-i-m-thank-god-its-monday/ https://boldanddetermined.com/t-g-i-m-thank-god-its-monday/
  • photoguy112 8y ago
    I can attest to this. Being on your own clock is still stressful in some ways, but compared to a standard work week - not even close.
• itamarst 8y ago
  As others mention here and there in the comments: you can get a 3-day weekend at many tech jobs. It's just a matter of asking, and asking in the right way. E.g. this guy I interviewed has been working 4 days a week for 15 years: https://codewithoutrules.com/2018/01/08/part-time-programmer/ https://codewithoutrules.com/2018/01/08/part-time-programmer... I've personally not worked 40 hour weeks since 2012, because, too much stuff to do, especially with a family. If you don't have negotiation experience, well, I started out a terrible negotiator and eventually figured out how, so you can too. And if you'd like to skip over all the mistakes and research I did and just know what it takes to negotiate a shorter workweek as a programmer, I've written a book that can help you: https://codewithoutrules.com/3dayweekend/ https://codewithoutrules.com/3dayweekend/
• cronix 8y ago
  I solved most of this for myself purely by relocating closer to work. If you have an hour commute (hour to, hour from), that's 40 hours/month sitting in traffic being unproductive. That's an entire 3 months worth of full-time work in a year. Just eliminating a long commute gives you back a lot of time during the regular week that's currently being completely wasted. Now I mostly just work remotely.
• mmole 8y ago
  I used to think I had no spare time. Now I have 2 kids under 3. It turns out I used to have a TON of time in comparison.
• manigandham 8y ago
  When I was younger, I had a fulltime contractor job where I only worked 4 days a week, and also had flexible starting times. The freedom was incredible and having just 1 extra day made work vs personal time seem much more equal (4 work, 3 off). I also got more done because longer days allowed me to get into flow more and I suspect most salaried workers already spend more than 8 hours a day anyway. I've yet to really see any other companies do it, and I'm thinking of instituting that policy in our current startup, but it deserves serious consideration.
• dorkwood 8y ago
  I’ve tried to think of a way out of this, but so far none of my ideas are very good. 1) Use my spare time to study a more lucrative field, and negotiate a four-day work week. The pitfall here is that I need to spend all of my spare time working, so that I may be able to work less in the future (and it’s not guaranteed that I will). 2) Move to a country where the cost of living is cheap, and freelance with international clients. The pitfall here is that I have to move away from all the people I care about. I may also end up introducing more stress into my life by living as a foreigner and relying on a freelance income. 3) Invest all of my time into starting my own business (for pitfalls, see 1). 4) Negotiate a four-day work week on my current wage, live a much more ascetic lifestyle, and only save a small amount of money for my future. 5) Marry into a wealthy family. 6) Find a duffel bag with a few million dollars in it. Does anyone have any better ideas?
  • bloomca 8y ago
    > Use my spare time to study a more lucrative field assuming you are in software development field, it is tricky to get into a more lucrative one, probably easier to just stay here. > Move to a country where the cost of living is cheap, and freelance with international clients Not long-term sustainable. Might work for couple years (especially if you are single and have perfect health), but after a lot of problem will show up – relatives, friends, connections, etc. Also, you might want your own home. Overall, you listed it. Other ideas are: 1. embrace it. Be consistent in your hobbies, and dedicate one day to it (like Saturday). It is tough for new hobbies, but if you are already in it, might be just fine. Not everybody has to produce something artsy and from their passion – your family, what you like might be enough. Try to reflect on it sometime, it might clear some things for you. 2. Retire early. If you live more frugally (or not so posh, depending on your preferences), you can easily save plenty of money, which will allow you to retire not in 65, but around ~45 (number depends heavily, but you got the idea). 3. Aggressively negotiate vacation days, and take off 1–2 days at the end/beginning of the week. You'll work much less (you'll notice it), and taking 2 days off reduces 2 weeks into 4 days work week.
  • itamarst 8y ago
    Will assume you are programmer, here, if not the dynamic might be different. The presumption is that you get paid less when you work less. And this is true, to an extent: when I've negotiated a shorter workweek I've typically gotten paid correspondingly less, e.g. at 4 days a week get paid 80% time. But— 1. My experience (https://codewithoutrules.com/2018/02/11/working-long-hours/ https://codewithoutrules.com/2018/02/11/working-long-hours/), and that of others (https://lobste.rs/s/hvjwd6/how_become_part_time_programmer#c_cz4dkd https://lobste.rs/s/hvjwd6/how_become_part_time_programmer#c...) is that working less makes you more productive. You learn how to prioritize, how to avoid wasting time, you're force to plan more... basically you end up a much effective programmer and employee. As a better employee, you can get a better baseline salary. So you're getting 80% of a higher salary. 2. The key to getting a shorter workweek is negotiating. If you have better negotiating skills you can get a higher salary, e.g. merely asking for more than the company's initial offer will usually give you a 10% boost (https://codewithoutrules.com/2019/01/18/negotiate-like-6-year-old/ https://codewithoutrules.com/2019/01/18/negotiate-like-6-yea...). Knowing how to present yourself in a job interview and resume can also give you a salary boost (https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/). So again, it's possible to get 80% of a higher salary. You'll still get paid less than you could have otherwise... but beyond a certain point I and others at least have found time to be more important than money.
• ta81747 8y ago
  All of this is a choice. You can choose to live a different life. In 20 years in tech, its the rare person who asks "should we?" instead of "can we?" Should you work yourself to death? Probably not. Can you? Sure. Was it a well considered choice to do so?
• anonymous1204 8y ago
  The short answer to this, is that this is the lazy form of thinking pestering people's minds (especially young) nowadays. People who don't know how to plan their lives, finances, time, studies, family, work, health or whatever it is that needs a solution, and blame it on the system. Just like my ex-girlfriend, she used to talk on and on (and on and on, and on again) about "our system", and then after I broke up with her and she graduated college she didn't start working, she is traveling the world for the past 6 months with government welfare that Europe is so stupid to give. As the years go by she will keep complaining about "our system" but she never did anything to improve "our system", she only consumed. This is called leeching. Take some responsibility & get what needs to be done quickly and well, and you will buy yourself some freedom, nothing in life is free, and it shouldn't be, since no one should be working and not getting paid for it.
• Top5a 8y ago
  Tired after a 40-hour week + commute? lol... hormonal imbalance or diet/health problem.
• photoguy112 8y ago
  I am thinking of launching a course on how to become a UX consultant / designer if anyone here designs and wishes to go down that path. Let me know... You can expect 60-150k, work from home.
• jgalt212 8y ago
  Oh my, no mention of kids. Just wait how much he hates the weekend after that happens.
• vlunkr 8y ago
  I think making time for hobbies really helps reduce the pain of this cycle. I suck at the guitar, but I can play it for 15 minutes or so, and it breaks up the monotony of the day and provides a different creative outlet than I get at work. Even if you have to put off some chore, it’s crucial to make some time to just be alive.
• metromews 8y ago
  John Maynard Keynes said that we would be working 15 hours a week by now. That would so great.
• black-tea 8y ago
  My dad had real weekends. No grocery shopping, no laundry or other chores. He got stuff done, but he didn't have to do it and most weekends he truly relaxed. How did he manage this? He had a wife. She did the chores during the week while he worked. Now that women have been told that they should work they do, even if they're not particularly good at it. And now we don't have weekends. We are single people working full time to support ourselves and we're completely trapped by it. What a tragedy.
• ensiferum 8y ago
  Wow someone has a big pitycock in their mouth. As much as it feels good to whine on the internet most of us have the capacity to change our lives. We're luckg enough to have resources, we're well fed, educated people with income to even spare. So if you really dont like how your life is then change it!
• dentit 8y ago
  Weekends are meant to fulfill obligations.