12 ms·

Librem 5 Hardware Update

186 points by fghtr 8y ago

ajennings 8y ago
I'm considering preordering this, but I'd like some confirmation it will work with my Verizon account. The FAQ says: The Librem 5 is an open network phone, not locked to any particular network. We aim to support 3G and 4G for the most common international frequency bands and carriers, with an interchangeable module. Exact specifications will follow as we are evaluating the data+voice modems that will be used. We expect it to work on 3G and 4G networks, and hope for it to also work for GSM, UMTS, or LTE-based network services. which is not quite convincing enough.
- neilsimp1 8y ago
  The only carrier I see mentioned regularly that it should definitely support is AT&T. Other ones, I am not so sure about.
- seba_dos1 8y ago
  The most likely (but not 100%, so it's not announced yet) module to be put there is Cinterion PLS8. You can easily look up which frequencies it supports.
  - MrRadar 8y ago
    If they go with that module I will be very disappointed since it has basically 2015-era LTE support (in terms of both bands and speed). Here are the variants and the bands they support[1]: > PLS8-E: LTE (20,8,3,7,1); 3G (8,3,1); 2G Dual Band > PLS8-US: LTE (17,5,4,2); 3G (5,4,2); 2G Quad Band > PLS8-J: LTE (1,3,19); 3G (1,19) > PLS8-X: LTE (13,17,5,4,2); 3G (5,4,2); 2G Quad Band > PLS8-V: LTE (13,4,2) > LTE Cat. 3 (DL: max. 100 Mbps, UL: max. 50 Mbps, 2x2 DL MIMO) I'm a T-Mobile US customer and while I could live with slower speeds the lack of band 12 support really has me questioning if I can justify spending $600 on this device. The lack of band 66 and 71 is forgivable since those are very new, but band 12 has been around since LTE was first deployed in the US (even if devices didn't start supporting it until late 2015). Also note that the European variant of this module only supports dual-band GSM and no US UMTS or LTE bands so it will not work for roaming in the US. The US variants will at least support 2G roaming outside the US. [1]: https://www.gemalto.com/brochures-site/download-site/Documents/M2M_PLS8_datasheet.pdf https://www.gemalto.com/brochures-site/download-site/Documen...
    - afturner 8y ago
      Why not this boi: https://www.gemalto.com/brochures-site/download-site/Documents/M2M_EMS31_datasheet.pdf https://www.gemalto.com/brochures-site/download-site/Documen...
      - MrRadar 8y ago
        That one only supports LTE Cat. M1 which is only suitable for IoT devices. As the datasheet indicates max downlink speeds are 300 kbps and there is no 2G or 3G support.
    - xxpor 8y ago
      Lack of band 12 would make the device unusable in Seattle, for example.
- samueloph 8y ago
  "The Librem 5 is an open network phone, not locked to any particular network. We aim to support 3G and 4G for the most common international frequency bands and carriers, with an interchangeable module. Exact specifications will follow as we are evaluating the data+voice modems that will be used. We expect it to work on 3G and 4G networks, and hope for it to also work for GSM, UMTS, or LTE-based network services."
  - criddell 8y ago
    Just because it's technically compatible doesn't mean the network operator will allow the device, does it? I remember hearing Jeff Jarvis' story about trying to get Verizon to let him use a Nexus 7 tablet. IIRC was compatible with the network but Verizon dragged their feet for a long time. https://buzzmachine.com/2013/11/06/the-verizon-saga-continues/ https://buzzmachine.com/2013/11/06/the-verizon-saga-continue...
    - shmerl 8y ago
      T-Mobile usually have no problem with custom devices. Avoid Verizon if you can.
      - RussianCow 8y ago
        Verizon still has by far the best coverage in many parts of the US, so it may be the only option if that's important to you.
        shmerl 8y ago
        That was the case in the past, but T-Mobile were actively building up their network in the recent times so it should be a lot better than before. I didn't compare it myself, so can't say how much it has improved in areas where it was bad before.
        RussianCow 8y ago
        I switched from Verizon to T-Mobile a couple years ago, and where I live (Oregon), T-Mobile's service is absolute garbage compared to Verizon's. It was fine in the dense parts of the city, but anything outside of that was a total gamble. Driving to the mountain, the beach, or really anywhere outside the metro area nearly guaranteed a lack of service all or most of the way. I even had poor reception in parts of my house, and would sometimes lose calls in my kitchen! I recently switched to AT&T and am much happier, but there are still occasions where my wife (on Verizon) has service but I don't. I've also heard similar anecdotes from people I've met in other parts of the country, so I don't think Oregon is the only state for which this is true. (Before you say that this was a problem with my phone, I changed phones once while I was still on T-Mobile, and the service did not improve.)
- aquaticsunset 8y ago
  Having at least some band support is looking promising, but whether Verizon will make it a hassle to BYOP or not... is TBD. They're getting better with that overall so I'm hopeful, but I'll believe it when I see it.
- BuildTheRobots 8y ago
  I find the last quote extremely odd and contradictory; my understanding was that UMTS is 3G and LTE is 4G.
  - ptx 8y ago
    I guess "3G" and "4G" here might be referring to some idiosyncratic American standards?
- ocdtrekkie 8y ago
  I'm in the same boat, waiting on Verizon support. But as a note, Verizon has a bunch of pre-approved modules (https://opendevelopment.verizonwireless.com/design-and-build/approved-modules https://opendevelopment.verizonwireless.com/design-and-build...) and as long as you can pop one of those in the phone, it should be able to be activated on Verizon. One of the modules is very similar to the module Librem's code already supports too.
zunzun 8y ago
This hardware update does not appear to contain any update on the hardware.
- bo1024 8y ago
  It does link to an FAQ page on specs, which was news to me: https://puri.sm/faq/what-are-the-phone-specs/ https://puri.sm/faq/what-are-the-phone-specs/
- acct1771 8y ago
  Any update that doesn't say "delay" is an update in and of itself.
arendtio 8y ago
> Replaceable Battery: Yes (with tools) I am Looking forward to the Librem 5 since a while, but those specs aren't particularly promising. In general, there are three features I am missing most often in today's smartphones: 1. Replaceable Battery (without tools) 2. SD-Card Slot 3. Wireless Charging Sadly there are very few models which have all three features. Requiring tools to change the battery is okay if you want to replace an old one with a new one once in a while, but not if you are on vacation, using GPS all day long, and just want to quickly change it.
- vbezhenar 8y ago
  Depends how hard is it to replace. If you're carrying around extra battery, tiny screwdriver should not be a problem.
  - arendtio 8y ago
    Let's hope it won't be complicated, but somehow I doubt that it will be as easy as those normal replaceable batteries.
- throw082 8y ago
  Re 1: I would also rather have an easily replaceable battery, however for your use case I would think that a powerbank is more sensible than a second battery: no swapping/downtime and you can recharge both at the same time.
  - arendtio 8y ago
    Sounds like fun taking photos with a powerbank connected to your phone ;-) In the past, I didn't have a problem with the one-minute downtime. Instead, I enjoyed having a fully charged phone within seconds.
    - turtlebits 8y ago
      Phone case with removable battery. I had a cobattery (now discontinued) case with my iPhone 6 - added a ton of bulk, but was useful to just swap batteries instead of charging.
blojayble 8y ago
https://wiki.puri.sm/hw/L13/v3 https://wiki.puri.sm/hw/L13/v3 Seems like the wiki has not been updated properly. >"Don't list problems" Well, I would rather be aware of those. . Edit: Jumped around the site too much and lost the context...
- arendtio 8y ago
  That page is not about the Librem 5
lucb1e 8y ago
Looks like it's an update on that the hardware started landing in some people's hands, not a change in hardware.
eptcyka 8y ago
My current question is - will there be silicon cases and tempered glass screen protectors available? I've pre-ordered, and I don't expect the sturdiest build quality, so I'd want to have some tools to protect agianst it. I'm not meaning any offense towards Purism and their craftsmanship, it's just that the first iterations of projects like these have more important things to optimize for than hamfist-compatibility.
- bunnycorn 8y ago
  For glass, it's different, but if it's glass, you can always cut from a bigger glass. For cases, 3D print one, for comfortably less than 200€ you can get a Open-Source Hardware Certified Ender 3, and that's with DHL shipping already.
  - benj111 8y ago
    You can't cut tempered glass, you can cut then temper though thats not really a diy option. Laminated glass is an option.
    - bunnycorn 8y ago
      Didn't knew, thanks.
  - tivert 8y ago
    > For cases, 3D print one, I know someone who 3D-printed a phone case with a consumer printer he got for Christmas, and it fell apart within a few days.
    - penagwin 8y ago
      As a hobbyist that built my own printer I assure you he could've printed it at a better quality then that. Prints can vary wildly in quality, and the price of the machine is largely irreverent (1000$ printers can easily match a 10,000 $ in quality in many cases). He may not've had the most optimal settings for the print. That said I don't think 3D printing phone cases is worth doing for any reason other then the cool factor. I'd expect 3rd parties to start selling cases for it fairly quickly, there just might not be a huge range of colors/options/prices
TheForumTroll 8y ago
Still closed-source firmware. Doesn't help much to use open-source that is lower in the hierarchy than closed-source firmware.
otachack 8y ago
As a iOS/Android developer, I'm looking forward to more information on dev tools. Last time I went through their docs for this information it wasn't very clear where to start.
- AsyncAwait 8y ago
  Basically, download GNOME Builder and then it's your standard GTK development. Or you can use any other tools that you would normally use when building for Linux.
  - RussianCow 8y ago
    > Or you can use any other tools that you would normally use when building for Linux. That's not super helpful if you've never built anything for Linux before.
    - AsyncAwait 8y ago
      Ok, let me try to be a bit more helpful then. On Linux there are two big desktop environments, (GUIs, desktops etc. on macOS/Windows there's no choice, only one). These environments are called GNOME and KDE. The Librem5 will by default ship with a GNOME-based environment, customized for phones. On GNOME, you program GUI applications using a widget library called GTK, now at version 3. Think of this akin to Cocoa/WinForms. There are two main programming languages to develop GTK apps, C and Vala, (Vala's akin to C#), however there are bindings to many other languages including Python and JavaScript, so unlike on macOS/Windows, you're not as restricted when it comes to your development environment. GNOME has an IDE for building applications intended to run on it called Builder, akin to Xcode/Visual Studio. You'd normally use this IDE to develop your app. You'd want to select the Flatpak project type. Flatpak is a way to ship apps that will be supported on the phone. There's a library called libhandy you can use to make sure your app fits nicely on the phone ie is responsive. The reference GNOME docs can be found at https://developer.gnome.org https://developer.gnome.org, the Librem 5 dev docs, which are WIP are at https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5 https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5 and the libhandy API docs are at https://honk.sigxcpu.org/projects/libhandy/doc https://honk.sigxcpu.org/projects/libhandy/doc Now because this phone is GNU/Linux and is open, you're not restricted to what I laid out above, that's just the most sanctioned way to develop apps. The phone will be able to run any Linux binary that can be compiled for ARM, so as long as the compiler you're using can do that you can use pretty much any language, framework etc. You can even draw your graphics via OpenGL or ship a command line app or anything else you may wish. You're not as restricted, but also not as guided as on iOS/Android.
impostir 8y ago
I want the Purism 5 to be a good 1st gen phone; I am not expecting Apple-level build quality or the newest hardware. But even with what I consider reasonable expectations, I am very uncertain with purism's ability to reach them. Making even just a decent smartphone is really difficult, and purism appears to be struggling already. I wish them the best, but I won't consider the phone until monthes after laumch.
- GenghisSean 8y ago
  This was my position as well. I haven't pre-ordered the phone but the closer it gets to April the more I'm excited to have a freedom respecting phone. Even if the reviews are bad I'll probably still buy one to hack against and contribute back to.
- confounded 8y ago
  I put up the cash as soon as it was launched. As someone who has funded many “Linux on an X” projects over the years, my expectations on timelines and polish are very low. I don’t expect this device to be good enough to replace my iPhone immediately, but I desperately want something running Free Software that can, in the medium-term. I’m very very happy to fund and hack on the project in the meantime.
dewyatt 8y ago
I received my dev kit and immediately broke it. The SOM connects to the mainboard with 4x 80-pin tiny connectors. If you miss the little warning on the silkscreen and lift from the wrong side, BAM, two broken connectors. Purism said they would sell me a replacement SOM, but they're not really communicating now.
- craftyguy 8y ago
  Why did you try to remove the SOM? I have a devkit, and have ported an OS to it, but have not found any reason to unseat the SOM.
  - dewyatt 8y ago
    I always like to take note of the ICs on new dev hardware I'll be working with. For one, I may find that something isn't working and the chips may be relevant to that. For two, if I want to re-purpose the kit for something in the future, that list of chips will let me know if I'm going to need to write a driver for my target OS. You can gather a lot of this info from a running OS, but it's much quicker and more accurate to just look at the chips in my experience. (Purism did finally send me a return shipping label for the SOM today)
mike-cardwell 8y ago
In the hardware spec list it says: "Smart Card Reader: Yes (OpenPGP-compatible)" The same list says it doesn't have NFC, so I'm just wondering what sort of interface this is going to be, so what sort of cards can be used... Anyone have any idea? [edit] They have the Librem Key - https://puri.sm/products/librem-key/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-key/ - but that requires a full sized USB port, which I assume this phone wont have.
- confounded 8y ago
  It would likely be a literal smartcard reader. E.g. you put something in there that looks the chip in your debit card.
  - newnewpdro 8y ago
    That seems incredibly unlikely on a smartphone, no?
    - wiml 8y ago
      I don't see why it would be unlikely. The standard identity smartcard (DoD PIV card, openPGP card, etc), like the standard credit/debit card, uses the same physical and electrical interface as a SIM (because a SIM is also a standard smartcard): the ISO7816 pattern. Dual-SIM phones are pretty common — even Apple has one! — and there's no technical reason you couldn't make one of the SIM sockets hotpluggable and present it to the applications on the phone instead of to the cellular module.
      - newnewpdro 8y ago
        If it's the size of a SIM or MicroSD card sure, but if we're talking about credit card sized cards it strikes me as unlikely for packaging reasons. The phone already requires tools for battery replacement, and now it's going to accomodate a durable credit card slot? Apparently this phone is going to be much bulkier than I imagined.
jammygit 8y ago
I'm not sure why I haven't preordered one yet. I think I'm worried I won't be able to use it for daily use due to missing key apps (signal, authy, anki, password manager) Realistically, I think that's my only concern. Might still get one though to tinker with
ncmncm 8y ago
I ordered one a couple of months ago. I am hoping it turns out usable. Anything beyond that is gravy. I am a bit disappointed to find them programming it in C "in this day and age". I would rather find C++ code, which leaves less room for dumb bugs, and is quicker to write and refine. But C++ code written by C programmers would be no better than C, and in the end you go with who you have.
- mangix 8y ago
  given how insanely bloated the language is, I doubt it. GTK is written in C.
  - ncmncm 8y ago
    When you have to resurrect 1990s falsehoods to make a point, you have no point. There are good C++ wrappers to make GTK tolerable to use, although they cannot make it less buggy.
- curioussavage 8y ago
  Then run plasma mobile on it.
alexkavon 8y ago
Maybe the community around this, both skeptics and non-skeptics alike, should come together and ask Purism to Open Source document the phone and it’s process of building a device like this (through as many mediums as they choose)? These blog posts are nice and fill a basic need of the public, but it would be great to give the idea and opportunity legs if they do or don’t succeed. Reader beware, I preordered.

186 points by fghtr 8y ago

I'm considering preordering this, but I'd like some confirmation it will work with my Verizon account. The FAQ says: The Librem 5 is an open network phone, not locked to any particular network. We aim to support 3G and 4G for the most common international frequency bands and carriers, with an interchangeable module. Exact specifications will follow as we are evaluating the data+voice modems that will be used. We expect it to work on 3G and 4G networks, and hope for it to also work for GSM, UMTS, or LTE-based network services. which is not quite convincing enough.

neilsimp1 8y ago
The only carrier I see mentioned regularly that it should definitely support is AT&T. Other ones, I am not so sure about.
seba_dos1 8y ago
The most likely (but not 100%, so it's not announced yet) module to be put there is Cinterion PLS8. You can easily look up which frequencies it supports.
- MrRadar 8y ago
  If they go with that module I will be very disappointed since it has basically 2015-era LTE support (in terms of both bands and speed). Here are the variants and the bands they support[1]: > PLS8-E: LTE (20,8,3,7,1); 3G (8,3,1); 2G Dual Band > PLS8-US: LTE (17,5,4,2); 3G (5,4,2); 2G Quad Band > PLS8-J: LTE (1,3,19); 3G (1,19) > PLS8-X: LTE (13,17,5,4,2); 3G (5,4,2); 2G Quad Band > PLS8-V: LTE (13,4,2) > LTE Cat. 3 (DL: max. 100 Mbps, UL: max. 50 Mbps, 2x2 DL MIMO) I'm a T-Mobile US customer and while I could live with slower speeds the lack of band 12 support really has me questioning if I can justify spending $600 on this device. The lack of band 66 and 71 is forgivable since those are very new, but band 12 has been around since LTE was first deployed in the US (even if devices didn't start supporting it until late 2015). Also note that the European variant of this module only supports dual-band GSM and no US UMTS or LTE bands so it will not work for roaming in the US. The US variants will at least support 2G roaming outside the US. [1]: https://www.gemalto.com/brochures-site/download-site/Documents/M2M_PLS8_datasheet.pdf https://www.gemalto.com/brochures-site/download-site/Documen...
  - afturner 8y ago
    Why not this boi: https://www.gemalto.com/brochures-site/download-site/Documents/M2M_EMS31_datasheet.pdf https://www.gemalto.com/brochures-site/download-site/Documen...
    - MrRadar 8y ago
      That one only supports LTE Cat. M1 which is only suitable for IoT devices. As the datasheet indicates max downlink speeds are 300 kbps and there is no 2G or 3G support.
  - xxpor 8y ago
    Lack of band 12 would make the device unusable in Seattle, for example.
samueloph 8y ago
"The Librem 5 is an open network phone, not locked to any particular network. We aim to support 3G and 4G for the most common international frequency bands and carriers, with an interchangeable module. Exact specifications will follow as we are evaluating the data+voice modems that will be used. We expect it to work on 3G and 4G networks, and hope for it to also work for GSM, UMTS, or LTE-based network services."
- criddell 8y ago
  Just because it's technically compatible doesn't mean the network operator will allow the device, does it? I remember hearing Jeff Jarvis' story about trying to get Verizon to let him use a Nexus 7 tablet. IIRC was compatible with the network but Verizon dragged their feet for a long time. https://buzzmachine.com/2013/11/06/the-verizon-saga-continues/ https://buzzmachine.com/2013/11/06/the-verizon-saga-continue...
  - shmerl 8y ago
    T-Mobile usually have no problem with custom devices. Avoid Verizon if you can.
    - RussianCow 8y ago
      Verizon still has by far the best coverage in many parts of the US, so it may be the only option if that's important to you.
      - shmerl 8y ago
        That was the case in the past, but T-Mobile were actively building up their network in the recent times so it should be a lot better than before. I didn't compare it myself, so can't say how much it has improved in areas where it was bad before.
        RussianCow 8y ago
        I switched from Verizon to T-Mobile a couple years ago, and where I live (Oregon), T-Mobile's service is absolute garbage compared to Verizon's. It was fine in the dense parts of the city, but anything outside of that was a total gamble. Driving to the mountain, the beach, or really anywhere outside the metro area nearly guaranteed a lack of service all or most of the way. I even had poor reception in parts of my house, and would sometimes lose calls in my kitchen! I recently switched to AT&T and am much happier, but there are still occasions where my wife (on Verizon) has service but I don't. I've also heard similar anecdotes from people I've met in other parts of the country, so I don't think Oregon is the only state for which this is true. (Before you say that this was a problem with my phone, I changed phones once while I was still on T-Mobile, and the service did not improve.)
aquaticsunset 8y ago
Having at least some band support is looking promising, but whether Verizon will make it a hassle to BYOP or not... is TBD. They're getting better with that overall so I'm hopeful, but I'll believe it when I see it.
BuildTheRobots 8y ago
I find the last quote extremely odd and contradictory; my understanding was that UMTS is 3G and LTE is 4G.
- ptx 8y ago
  I guess "3G" and "4G" here might be referring to some idiosyncratic American standards?
ocdtrekkie 8y ago
I'm in the same boat, waiting on Verizon support. But as a note, Verizon has a bunch of pre-approved modules (https://opendevelopment.verizonwireless.com/design-and-build/approved-modules https://opendevelopment.verizonwireless.com/design-and-build...) and as long as you can pop one of those in the phone, it should be able to be activated on Verizon. One of the modules is very similar to the module Librem's code already supports too.

zunzun 8y ago

This hardware update does not appear to contain any update on the hardware.

bo1024 8y ago
It does link to an FAQ page on specs, which was news to me: https://puri.sm/faq/what-are-the-phone-specs/ https://puri.sm/faq/what-are-the-phone-specs/
acct1771 8y ago
Any update that doesn't say "delay" is an update in and of itself.

arendtio 8y ago

> Replaceable Battery: Yes (with tools) I am Looking forward to the Librem 5 since a while, but those specs aren't particularly promising. In general, there are three features I am missing most often in today's smartphones: 1. Replaceable Battery (without tools) 2. SD-Card Slot 3. Wireless Charging Sadly there are very few models which have all three features. Requiring tools to change the battery is okay if you want to replace an old one with a new one once in a while, but not if you are on vacation, using GPS all day long, and just want to quickly change it.

vbezhenar 8y ago
Depends how hard is it to replace. If you're carrying around extra battery, tiny screwdriver should not be a problem.
- arendtio 8y ago
  Let's hope it won't be complicated, but somehow I doubt that it will be as easy as those normal replaceable batteries.
throw082 8y ago
Re 1: I would also rather have an easily replaceable battery, however for your use case I would think that a powerbank is more sensible than a second battery: no swapping/downtime and you can recharge both at the same time.
- arendtio 8y ago
  Sounds like fun taking photos with a powerbank connected to your phone ;-) In the past, I didn't have a problem with the one-minute downtime. Instead, I enjoyed having a fully charged phone within seconds.
  - turtlebits 8y ago
    Phone case with removable battery. I had a cobattery (now discontinued) case with my iPhone 6 - added a ton of bulk, but was useful to just swap batteries instead of charging.

blojayble 8y ago

https://wiki.puri.sm/hw/L13/v3 https://wiki.puri.sm/hw/L13/v3 Seems like the wiki has not been updated properly. >"Don't list problems" Well, I would rather be aware of those. . Edit: Jumped around the site too much and lost the context...

arendtio 8y ago
That page is not about the Librem 5

lucb1e 8y ago

Looks like it's an update on that the hardware started landing in some people's hands, not a change in hardware.

eptcyka 8y ago

My current question is - will there be silicon cases and tempered glass screen protectors available? I've pre-ordered, and I don't expect the sturdiest build quality, so I'd want to have some tools to protect agianst it. I'm not meaning any offense towards Purism and their craftsmanship, it's just that the first iterations of projects like these have more important things to optimize for than hamfist-compatibility.

bunnycorn 8y ago
For glass, it's different, but if it's glass, you can always cut from a bigger glass. For cases, 3D print one, for comfortably less than 200€ you can get a Open-Source Hardware Certified Ender 3, and that's with DHL shipping already.
- benj111 8y ago
  You can't cut tempered glass, you can cut then temper though thats not really a diy option. Laminated glass is an option.
  - bunnycorn 8y ago
    Didn't knew, thanks.
- tivert 8y ago
  > For cases, 3D print one, I know someone who 3D-printed a phone case with a consumer printer he got for Christmas, and it fell apart within a few days.
  - penagwin 8y ago
    As a hobbyist that built my own printer I assure you he could've printed it at a better quality then that. Prints can vary wildly in quality, and the price of the machine is largely irreverent (1000$ printers can easily match a 10,000 $ in quality in many cases). He may not've had the most optimal settings for the print. That said I don't think 3D printing phone cases is worth doing for any reason other then the cool factor. I'd expect 3rd parties to start selling cases for it fairly quickly, there just might not be a huge range of colors/options/prices

TheForumTroll 8y ago

Still closed-source firmware. Doesn't help much to use open-source that is lower in the hierarchy than closed-source firmware.

otachack 8y ago

As a iOS/Android developer, I'm looking forward to more information on dev tools. Last time I went through their docs for this information it wasn't very clear where to start.

AsyncAwait 8y ago
Basically, download GNOME Builder and then it's your standard GTK development. Or you can use any other tools that you would normally use when building for Linux.
- RussianCow 8y ago
  > Or you can use any other tools that you would normally use when building for Linux. That's not super helpful if you've never built anything for Linux before.
  - AsyncAwait 8y ago
    Ok, let me try to be a bit more helpful then. On Linux there are two big desktop environments, (GUIs, desktops etc. on macOS/Windows there's no choice, only one). These environments are called GNOME and KDE. The Librem5 will by default ship with a GNOME-based environment, customized for phones. On GNOME, you program GUI applications using a widget library called GTK, now at version 3. Think of this akin to Cocoa/WinForms. There are two main programming languages to develop GTK apps, C and Vala, (Vala's akin to C#), however there are bindings to many other languages including Python and JavaScript, so unlike on macOS/Windows, you're not as restricted when it comes to your development environment. GNOME has an IDE for building applications intended to run on it called Builder, akin to Xcode/Visual Studio. You'd normally use this IDE to develop your app. You'd want to select the Flatpak project type. Flatpak is a way to ship apps that will be supported on the phone. There's a library called libhandy you can use to make sure your app fits nicely on the phone ie is responsive. The reference GNOME docs can be found at https://developer.gnome.org https://developer.gnome.org, the Librem 5 dev docs, which are WIP are at https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5 https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5 and the libhandy API docs are at https://honk.sigxcpu.org/projects/libhandy/doc https://honk.sigxcpu.org/projects/libhandy/doc Now because this phone is GNU/Linux and is open, you're not restricted to what I laid out above, that's just the most sanctioned way to develop apps. The phone will be able to run any Linux binary that can be compiled for ARM, so as long as the compiler you're using can do that you can use pretty much any language, framework etc. You can even draw your graphics via OpenGL or ship a command line app or anything else you may wish. You're not as restricted, but also not as guided as on iOS/Android.

impostir 8y ago

I want the Purism 5 to be a good 1st gen phone; I am not expecting Apple-level build quality or the newest hardware. But even with what I consider reasonable expectations, I am very uncertain with purism's ability to reach them. Making even just a decent smartphone is really difficult, and purism appears to be struggling already. I wish them the best, but I won't consider the phone until monthes after laumch.

GenghisSean 8y ago
This was my position as well. I haven't pre-ordered the phone but the closer it gets to April the more I'm excited to have a freedom respecting phone. Even if the reviews are bad I'll probably still buy one to hack against and contribute back to.
confounded 8y ago
I put up the cash as soon as it was launched. As someone who has funded many “Linux on an X” projects over the years, my expectations on timelines and polish are very low. I don’t expect this device to be good enough to replace my iPhone immediately, but I desperately want something running Free Software that can, in the medium-term. I’m very very happy to fund and hack on the project in the meantime.

dewyatt 8y ago

I received my dev kit and immediately broke it. The SOM connects to the mainboard with 4x 80-pin tiny connectors. If you miss the little warning on the silkscreen and lift from the wrong side, BAM, two broken connectors. Purism said they would sell me a replacement SOM, but they're not really communicating now.

craftyguy 8y ago
Why did you try to remove the SOM? I have a devkit, and have ported an OS to it, but have not found any reason to unseat the SOM.
- dewyatt 8y ago
  I always like to take note of the ICs on new dev hardware I'll be working with. For one, I may find that something isn't working and the chips may be relevant to that. For two, if I want to re-purpose the kit for something in the future, that list of chips will let me know if I'm going to need to write a driver for my target OS. You can gather a lot of this info from a running OS, but it's much quicker and more accurate to just look at the chips in my experience. (Purism did finally send me a return shipping label for the SOM today)

mike-cardwell 8y ago

In the hardware spec list it says: "Smart Card Reader: Yes (OpenPGP-compatible)" The same list says it doesn't have NFC, so I'm just wondering what sort of interface this is going to be, so what sort of cards can be used... Anyone have any idea? [edit] They have the Librem Key - https://puri.sm/products/librem-key/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-key/ - but that requires a full sized USB port, which I assume this phone wont have.

confounded 8y ago
It would likely be a literal smartcard reader. E.g. you put something in there that looks the chip in your debit card.
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  That seems incredibly unlikely on a smartphone, no?
  - wiml 8y ago
    I don't see why it would be unlikely. The standard identity smartcard (DoD PIV card, openPGP card, etc), like the standard credit/debit card, uses the same physical and electrical interface as a SIM (because a SIM is also a standard smartcard): the ISO7816 pattern. Dual-SIM phones are pretty common — even Apple has one! — and there's no technical reason you couldn't make one of the SIM sockets hotpluggable and present it to the applications on the phone instead of to the cellular module.
    - newnewpdro 8y ago
      If it's the size of a SIM or MicroSD card sure, but if we're talking about credit card sized cards it strikes me as unlikely for packaging reasons. The phone already requires tools for battery replacement, and now it's going to accomodate a durable credit card slot? Apparently this phone is going to be much bulkier than I imagined.

jammygit 8y ago

I'm not sure why I haven't preordered one yet. I think I'm worried I won't be able to use it for daily use due to missing key apps (signal, authy, anki, password manager) Realistically, I think that's my only concern. Might still get one though to tinker with

ncmncm 8y ago

I ordered one a couple of months ago. I am hoping it turns out usable. Anything beyond that is gravy. I am a bit disappointed to find them programming it in C "in this day and age". I would rather find C++ code, which leaves less room for dumb bugs, and is quicker to write and refine. But C++ code written by C programmers would be no better than C, and in the end you go with who you have.

mangix 8y ago
given how insanely bloated the language is, I doubt it. GTK is written in C.
- ncmncm 8y ago
  When you have to resurrect 1990s falsehoods to make a point, you have no point. There are good C++ wrappers to make GTK tolerable to use, although they cannot make it less buggy.
curioussavage 8y ago
Then run plasma mobile on it.

alexkavon 8y ago

Maybe the community around this, both skeptics and non-skeptics alike, should come together and ask Purism to Open Source document the phone and it’s process of building a device like this (through as many mediums as they choose)? These blog posts are nice and fill a basic need of the public, but it would be great to give the idea and opportunity legs if they do or don’t succeed. Reader beware, I preordered.