7 ms·
Apple has shown and continues to show willingness to embrace web technologies once they show clear promise or stability[1]. They might not implement "hemorrhagi
by crabl 8y ago
Apple has shown and continues to show willingness to embrace web technologies once they show clear promise or stability[1]. They might not implement "hemorrhaging edge" technologies immediately, but if the technology supports it, and it contributes positively to the user experience, they will do it.
[1]: https://twitter.com/mhartington/status/1089292031548145666 https://twitter.com/mhartington/status/1089292031548145666
- endless1234 8y agoApart from stuff that competes with their app store, like web push, of course
- Vinnl 8y agoAnd Service Workers, though admittedly that implementation took long and is apparently still brittle.
- NicoJuicy 8y agoThey won't add functionality that would compete with the app store. Add to home screen is a good example
- baybal2 8y agoI think that "add to home screen" is a stupid browser API, serving no genuine technical necessity. Feature creep of browsers must be forcefully stopped.
- Jedi72 8y agoWhat?? This makes no sense.
- moreira 8y agoIt's just about showing a banner to add to home screen, and the person is not wrong — there is no technical necessity for it. There is already, and always has been, an "Add to home screen" button in Safari. Since the very start. Having said that, if PWA support in iOS moves forward I wouldn't be surprised if that API is added to iOS, since then it'd be part of a bigger-picture thing.
- mmjaa 8y agoThe banner is relevant to those users who haven't figured out that they can do that.
- masklinn 8y ago> Since the very start. Technically not quite the very start (but it was added in iPhoneOS 2.1 so close enough).
- wlesieutre 8y agoThere's an add to home screen button, but it's buried deep in the share sheet and the average user doesn't know about it. We already have a "X company has an app" banner API on iOS, it seems fitting that webapps have an option to match. And the Safari provided "X company has an app" banner is a lot less annoying than any third party "HEY WHY AREN'T YOU USING OUR APP" banners in that it goes away when you scroll down instead of being fixed to the top of your screen. If a native feature can keep people from making a shittier version and sticking it all over, then I vote yes.
- moreira 8y agoYour example, though, directly contradicts the point you're trying to make. Apple does have a native feature for showing when there's a native app available, and -yet- we see those third-party banners. Having the native API to do something doesn't make the third-party crap banners go away.
- wlesieutre 8y agoYes, not every site wants it to be unobtrusive, they view the nagging as a feature. But for sites that aren't assholes I think they should have a standardized option like the app store's smart banners. I guess the real question is "If we didn't have smart banners, would even more websites use obnoxious full screen popovers and fixed position headers that pop back up every time you visit the page?" I think the answer is yes, fixed position headers are a really easy/lazy thing to tack onto a webpage, and not bothering to persist the fact that you already closed it 10 times is easier than saving that preference and checking it. If you want people to consider doing it the nicer way you have to make it just as easy.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- zapzupnz 8y agoI'm with you. The potential for websites to add themselves is far too dangerous; the web being open, wild, and dangerous, adding a website to the home screen should only ever be a browser-based task. And no, asking the user for confirmation is never sufficient to stop unsuspecting people from accidentally causing their own compromise. It's a trust thing. Once they trust one dialogue from a legit website, they'll trust it over and over. Let web sites leave the home screen on my phone the same way web sites have always left my bookmarks/favourites: alone
- Brakenshire 8y agoAs far as I’m aware this Add to Home Screen API you’re describing controlled by the website doesn’t exist, adding a PWA is a process controlled by the browser which occurs according to its heuristics, on Chrome it’s something to do with repeated visits to the same site. The only control the website has is a manifest, which sets the icon, loading screen colour, and whether the website can run without browser chrome. Edit: It looks like Chrome may have changed this, what I’m referring to above was the initial implementation. I think it’s a reasonable objection to say this should be under the control of the browser. But Safari could just implement the former without the latter. My main gripes with Safari at least with my use of webapps is that it doesn’t allow users to install PWA’s without the browser chrome, and its implementation of service workers is subtlely broken. Those are the biggest usability issues. If a user goes out of their way to go to the share menu, scroll along and click ‘add to homescreen’ why not allow them to specify to use what is clearly an app-like link without browser chrome? And why implement Service Workers but not according to the standard?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- masklinn 8y ago> Add to home screen is a good example You mean the thing that's been there since iPhoneOS 2.1? (https://appleinsider.com/articles/08/10/03/latest_iphone_software_supports_full_screen_web_apps https://appleinsider.com/articles/08/10/03/latest_iphone_sof...) Or are you just whining about other implementors not adopting Chrome's proprietary crap wholesale?
- hpen 8y agoSerious question: Do non iOS users actually add PWAs to there home screen?
- apexalpha 8y agoI have 3. But I guess that doesn't say much. Websites can show a 'add to homescreen' button.
- marcosdumay 8y agoIt's basically equivalent to bookmarks. Browsers have been working had to make people not want bookmarks, but everybody that I show how to get them is just loves them. (But well, they would be better if the mobile web didn't suck.)
- osrec 8y agoYes, over 30,000 of our users have installed https://usebx.com/app https://usebx.com/app to their home screen on Android.
- NicoJuicy 8y agoYes, i have a couple of them. halve of them is home-made though.
- solarkraft 8y agoYeah. I made a few low-tech iot control panels this way.
- AJRF 8y agoYou have been able to add to home screen since 11.3 iOS 12.2's main updates are with regards to state management and authentication flows for PWA's. https://hub.packtpub.com/apple-releases-ios-12-2-beta-1-for-developers-with-custom-screen-time-scheduling-pwa-improvements-among-other-features/ https://hub.packtpub.com/apple-releases-ios-12-2-beta-1-for-...
- NicoJuicy 8y agoThat's interesting, haven't cared about iOS in a long time though. PWA's are since 2015, so mid 2018 does indeed seem pretty fast for Apple for implementing it. I might believe it all when they have "approved 3rd party web rendering engines". Which is ( to be honest) the only thing that will change my opinion about it. Implementing it very slow is just a little better than not implementing it at all. And i don't think Apple will ever do that. So, it's a rock-steady argument since 2010. Edit: If the user doesn’t use the app for a few weeks, iOS will free up the app’s files. The icon will still be there on the home screen, and when accessed the app will be downloaded again So much for PWA's on iOS.
- dangerface 8y ago11.3 was released less than a year ago, which would prove pier25's point that apple has been dragging its heels.
- philo23 8y agoIt's been available much longer than 11.3, was this a typo for 1.1.3 when it was actually added?
- NicoJuicy 8y agoNo, PWA add to homescreen is since 11.3 https://dockyard.com/blog/2017/09/27/encouraging-pwa-installation-on-ios https://dockyard.com/blog/2017/09/27/encouraging-pwa-install... They do even auto-delete the PWA-apps [Quote] If the user doesn’t use the app for a few weeks, iOS will free up the app’s files. The icon will still be there on the home screen, and when accessed the app will be downloaded again. Not very trustworthy for using a PWA on iOS it seems :)
- s_y_n_t_a_x 8y agoSafari imo is the worst offending browser when it comes to bugs/not implementing standards. It's the new IE, I'm constantly implementing workarounds for Safari.
- osrec 8y agoI don't think that's right. Apple are consistently late to the party as far as Safari goes. I mean, they don't even support web push notifications yet, while other browsers have been supporting them for years. It's down right annoying.
- davidhyde 8y agoCase in point. Why do you need web push when you have websockets which safari supports?
- osrec 8y agoSo that you can notify users even when they've closed their browser, like you would with a native app.
- johneth 8y agoThe last thing I want is for websites to send me notifications (or rather, endlessly nag me to enable notifications, as I'd never grant permission).
- AsyncAwait 8y agoI'd say there's a difference between a 'web site' and a 'web app'. If there's a web app for which you'd allow notifications if it was a native app, why wouldn't you do so for the web app?
- heavenlyblue 8y agoBecause every single website I visit today on my desktop shows me a popup asking me to enable their desktop notifications. Nah, useless functionality. I've got feedly if I'd like to keep track of their news. That being said I work in ad arbitrage, so I understand the presumed efficiency of these notifications. As they say our business is middle-aged Americans who can't use the Internet.
- NicoJuicy 8y agoIf the user doesn’t use the app for a few weeks, iOS will free up the app’s files. The icon will still be there on the home screen, and when accessed the app will be downloaded again So much for PWA's on iOS... Apple's willingness to embrace web technologies is a joke.
- writepub 8y agoThe evidence to the contrary is overwhelming. Their W3C compliance is abyamal, and it's certainly NOT because they care for the user. The way they banned Steam from streaming games, by retroactively changing app-store rules, it appears like the motivation is to increase (app-store) revenues, by crippling the iOS browser.
- sctb 8y agoWe detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19023701 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19023701.