11 ms·

The Personal Toll of Whistle-Blowing

277 points by gringoDan 8y ago

wahjiwah 8y ago
You have to pay toll when you blow whistle ? I didn't know that. What is it? 5 dollars, eh!
metttalica 8y ago
You have to pay toll when you blow whistle ? I didn't know that. What is it? 5 dollars, eh! Lolz..
12-12 8y ago
You have to pay toll when you blow whistle ? I didn't know that. What is it? 5 dollars, eh! Lolz .. Lolz..
dhh2106 8y ago
>One interviewee, in response to a question about what advice he would give a potential whistle-blower, wrote, “[Can they] afford 5 years of their life in turmoil?” Another said, “Part of your ability to do anything about this is keeping yourself together,” and suggested that whistle-blowers find someone “like a minister or a shrink who’s confidentiality-protected,” because “this could go on for a while.” A high proportion of whistle-blowers reported divorces or other marital strain, family conflicts, and stress-related health issues including shingles, autoimmune disorders, panic attacks, insomnia, and migraines. Several of them said that the financial consequences were devastating. More than anything, I didn't realize how long these cases seem to take. But I wonder: if there was a way to reduce the duration of the cases, would that reduce the impact on whistleblowers? Is that possible somehow? Retaliation is also a big concern, of course, as the article makes clear. Also, I found this interesting: >the first documented whistle-blowing case in the United States took place in 1777, not long after the signing of the Declaration of Independence, when a group of naval officers, including Samuel Shaw and Richard Marven, witnessed their commanding officer torturing British prisoners of war. When they reported the misconduct to Congress, the commanding officer charged Shaw and Marven with libel, and both men were jailed. The following year, Congress passed a law protecting whistle-blowers, and Shaw and Marven were acquitted by a jury.
- samcday 8y ago
  But I wonder: if there was a way to reduce the duration of the cases, would that reduce the impact on whistleblowers? I remember reading somewhere recently about the standard M.O for federal cases. They take a long time in order to build an extremely solid case. That's why federal conviction rates are so high. Intuitively it makes sense. If you're gonna go after some naughty people for doing naughty things, you really don't want to rush the investigation and have the findings fall apart at trial.
  - duxup 8y ago
    Indeed, Federal prosecutors tend to be pretty effective, and the amount of data in these corporate cases that needs to be reviewed is enormous.
  - ramblerouser 8y ago
    This is totally incorrect. The high conviction rate is a result of extremely high maximum sentences. People who are 100% innocent often plead guilty after being threatened with a 30-year prison sentence that would be only 1 or 2 years under local law. Many federal crimes are unconstitutional and deliberately vague, like "lying (not volunteering incriminating evidence) to an investigator" and "mail fraud" which is just a way to charge you in federal court where the odds are stacked against you. The US federal judicialry is a kangaroo court. 99% of federal crimes should be repealed and maximum sentences reduced to be in line with state laws. Federal jury selection is also suspect, especially in cases involving "national security".
    - Angostura 8y ago
      Ah, a sovereign citizen?
    - chrisbennet 8y ago
      I assume whomever downvoted You has forgotten what happened to Aaron Schwartz.
      - 8y ago
refurb 8y ago
An interesting story of turning whistleblowing into a business is Ven-a-care pharmacy in the Florida Keys.[1] They started out as a small pharmacy, but now have a team of lawyers. They’ve gotten over $600M in whistleblower rewards as of the early 2010’s. Not sure what the total is now. [1]https://www.cnbc.com/id/41491563 https://www.cnbc.com/id/41491563
- goldenkey 8y ago
  Did they have lawyers to begin with? How did they get awarded these funds if it was not their case to begin with?
  - howard941 8y ago
    The legal doctrine arose from the common law Qui Tam writ, modified by statute for use stateside. The wiki page is pretty good. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qui_tam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qui_tam
deogeo 8y ago
I'd be very grateful for a summary - I'm no fan of these long-form articles.
- samcday 8y ago
  For me, New Yorker articles are often about the journey, not the destination :)
gadders 8y ago
This guy did OK out of being a whistleblower (barring the prison sentence): https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-tax-birkenfeld/whistleblower-in-ubs-tax-case-gets-record-104-million-idUSBRE88A0TE20120911 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-tax-birkenfeld/whistl...
- readhn 8y ago
  you cant put a price on time behind prison bars and away from your family. what if during that time his father died? was 100million "worth it"?
  - hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
    Two points: of course you can put a price on being away from your family. It's called a job, a millions of people do it all the time, often for long, extended periods (e.g. the military, expeditions, etc.) Being in prison is obviously extreme, but if getting out with several lifetimes of wealth means you never have to work again, could easily be a fair trade off. Second, he went to jail because he committed crimes from which he expected to gain, personally. He was at risk for a longer, more severe sentence had he been discovered and not cooperated with the government.
    - Gibbon1 8y ago
      > Two points: of course you can put a price on being away from your family. It's called a job In all due respect this is an opinion born of a sheltered life.
      - magduf 8y ago
        No, it sounds like your opinion is born of a sheltered life. You're probably thinking something along the lines of a job being enriching, fulfilling, etc. Sorry, but that's a minority of workers; for most people, a job is just daily drudgery they do to pay the rent, nothing more. It really is just a transaction where you trade your time for money.
platz 8y ago
So Freedom only got a slap on the wrist, basically
- SuperGent 8y ago
  When asked about the Freedom fine, [Patel] responded, "I decided to take it as a cost of doing business." This is the problem, why should you not take dubiously legal or moral action, if there isn't a significant deterrent?
  - krageon 8y ago
    Because you shouldn't be an asshole. People aren't animals unless they have some sword of Damocles hanging over them keeping them in line, it is a conscious choice to do the wrong thing.
    - Aeolun 8y ago
      Of course it is, but you’re not in it for anything but the money.
    - magduf 8y ago
      You can't expect this of people. When you do expect this, as you seem to, you end up setting up a society where sociopaths like that guy are able to rise to the top and profit handsomely because the people who made the rules just can't seem to conceive of someone who doesn't mind being an asshole as long as it gets him ahead.
      - krageon 8y ago
        This is about the US. I don't live there, I do think that and while it is super bad everywhere on earth I think we can agree the US is pulling the cart in terms of terrible. Frankly you I think the argument that "this is just how it'll be" is not one that is terribly convincing on it's own. Yes, it'll go wrong. It'll also go right. I don't think we need to structure our society like a prison just because it has the capacity to be worse than we like it to be.
PaulHoule 8y ago
I hate the last few months of the year, when ads for car dealerships get pushed away by ads for "Medicare Advantage" plans which sound like something you need to get Grandma away from. It's kind of thing that seems like a scam to normal people, but politicians seem to think is a way to save money. Go figure. I don't see how you can save money when you start out by adding 13% extra at the beginning to give the private sector some profit to work with.
ataturk 8y ago
I learned quite early on that HR isn't there to protect employees and those "report something" lines are there to make sure whistleblowers are corralled and dealt with as harshly as possible. The government is worse. It's a religion--and you don't go against the orthodoxy if you know what's good for you. This is why I actually respect Donald Trump because for all his flaws, he is trying to drain the damn swamp. We have let a massive evil grow over this land and it's time we do something about it besides get pushed around. Had I to do it over again, I wouldn't bother being a whistleblower, I would just sneak into the worst people's homes and slit their throats. It would be less traumatic overall. I figure I could live with the murders. Remember what Solzhenitsyn said about how they "burned in the camps" after the realized they had nothing to lose and should have fought harder when they had the chance.
lifeisstillgood 8y ago
For me, Mark Felt sets the right template - get other people to do the publicising, leak anonymously and keep heavily in the shadows. Sometimes literally. Just do not put your head above the parapet.
- jonathanstrange 8y ago
  Some whistleblowers might have dismissed this option out of fear for their live. Being under public scrutiny can provide a lot of safety.
edoo 8y ago
This reads like an advertisement for the FBI. A bigger story is how Obama removed protections and actively attacked whistle blowers after promising the most transparent government ever. That had true toll.
- iheartpotatoes 8y ago
  You mean like when Obama got legislation passed to protect them? https://www.whistleblowers.org/news/obama-signs-whistleblower-protection-bill-into-law/ https://www.whistleblowers.org/news/obama-signs-whistleblowe...
  - edoo 8y ago
    I mean more like his actual actions vs campaign promises. As usual the name of the legislation is the opposite of what it does. That bill allowed further restrictions on government employees, attempting to unshield them from the 1989 whistleblower protection act. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-van-buren/silencing-whistleblowers_b_4895847.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-van-buren/silencing-whi... https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/jan/10/jake-tapper/cnns-tapper-obama-has-used-espionage-act-more-all-/ https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/jan/10...
  - Dirlewanger 8y ago
    Didn't help Snowden much.
    - iheartpotatoes 8y ago
      He was never charged, hence could not be pardoned. However, it is duly noted that I'm trying to reconcile being objective about Obama's own nuanced position, while also supporting whistleblowers like Snowden, Manning and Winner.
- bigpoo 8y ago
  Big Poo thinks the bigger story is really how bad our privatized health care system is. Big Poo thinks we should move to a medicare for all system. So we can be on par with every single other industrialized nation in the world.
snarf21 8y ago
I keep thinking that in cases of any real size that these people should be put into witness relocation programs. Additionally, continue to pay them their current salary but not require them to work. We need people who know to speak out and therefore need to protect them.
- e40 8y ago
  Additionally, continue to pay them their current salary but not require them to work. An unintended consequence of this might be that people make false allegations. It's tough to find the right balance. Maybe they get a stipend to live on, and the money is put into escrow for when the case is resolved.
  - snarf21 8y ago
    Yeah, the presumption is that entry in the program is based on them sharing documents and other data with authorities that pass some level of scrutiny.
- Buttons840 8y ago
  Or give them a small percentage of what they save tax payers. A whistle-blower who saves tax payers billions should be set for life. Guess not all whistle-blowing is about stealing money, but I best most of it is.
  - macintux 8y ago
    > Or give them a small percentage of what they save tax payers That's exactly what the law encourages.
  - roywiggins 8y ago
    That's exactly how SEC whistleblower awards work. https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-44 https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-44
Aeolun 8y ago
This wasn’t so much about the personal toll of whistleblowing as the fucked up system and the apparent impossibility to do wrong as a US corporation. This was a really depressing story on multiple levels.
- rebuilder 8y ago
  It seems like the biggest problem outlined in the article was the inability to get a job as a known whistleblower. I think that would happen in pretty much any system, unfortunately. It takes a lot of courage to rat on an employer. Your career is probably over if you do.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
ilaksh 8y ago
For me there is a related issue that is just as problematic or worse. There are certain things that are critical of the US government that are simply not allowed to be spoken in most US centric places. The public effectively censors itself. I could mention some specific things but that would trigger it and then no one would see my comment. In general you can get away with mentioning things from the distant past but nothing particularly heinous or recent. I think that this is because people want to believe that their side has a moral high ground.
- Red_Pill_Phil 8y ago
  Ive noticed this too alot lately and I've actually started to question if our ideals are really moral. I think we have a very serious conversation ahead of us as a culture. Are we the bad guys?
  - boomboomsubban 8y ago
    We've avoided that conversation for two hundred years, why is it ahead of us now? If anything, blind patriotism makes it easier to ignore.
    - flyingpenguin 8y ago
      Every single time I mention something good about any country other than the US to my relatives they get SUPER angry and shout "Then why the F* don't you move there". It is so confusing to me. Not saying I love the US but if someone did... shouldn't they want to improve it?
      - Nasrudith 8y ago
        They don't want it to be good they want to feel good about it. Introspection makes them angry. This toxic anti-intellectualism is sadly common and has been promoted by people in power for ages. One would think an advertising culture is to blame but given that it happens even in the absence of it it totally predates it. Probably tribalistic.
samstave 8y ago
There is an insidious aspect with respect to Tech Workers. You don't need to be a whistle-blower to have a toll on your life/career. Talk too much shit about a company in Silicon Valley and you're fucked, regardless of the merits of your claims against them. #TeflonUnicorn
- maze-le 8y ago
  Any data to back up that claim?
sleepybrett 8y ago
Should whistleblowers be entitled to some portion of the fine levied against the offender to offset their losses (and encourage whistleblowing)?
- munificent 8y ago
  ...did you read the article? This is literally one of the main subjects of the article.
mywacaday 8y ago
Ireland is still recovering from the Maurice McCabe case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garda_whistleblower_scandal#Maurice_McCabe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garda_whistleblower_scandal#Ma... He was ostracized by his colleagues and even painted as a pedophile by Senior Gardai(Police) trying to discredit him. An absolute horror of a story when you get into the details, spent nearly a decade proving his life fighting the case and clearing his name. Can't imagine any Gardai whistleblowers in Ireland for a long time.
gwern 8y ago
> A few days later, in early September, 2014, Sewell was rushed to the hospital with a serious head injury after an accidental fall inside his house. Medical personnel found a clot in his brain. After three days in the hospital, Sewell died, at the age of thirty-nine. Head injuries are no joke, people. Even if you recover from them, the epidemiology suggests there are life-long consequences for mental health, intelligence, income, impulse control...
crb002 8y ago
He should have moved to Iowa. Under Iowa Code 730, blacklisting has Civil and criminal penalties.
- mjevans 8y ago
  How could an average person actually prove this? Particularly with opaque and/or feeling based decisions?
agumonkey 8y ago
Maybe we need more patient and stealth activism.

277 points by gringoDan 8y ago

wahjiwah 8y ago

You have to pay toll when you blow whistle ? I didn't know that. What is it? 5 dollars, eh!

metttalica 8y ago

You have to pay toll when you blow whistle ? I didn't know that. What is it? 5 dollars, eh! Lolz..

12-12 8y ago

You have to pay toll when you blow whistle ? I didn't know that. What is it? 5 dollars, eh! Lolz .. Lolz..

dhh2106 8y ago

>One interviewee, in response to a question about what advice he would give a potential whistle-blower, wrote, “[Can they] afford 5 years of their life in turmoil?” Another said, “Part of your ability to do anything about this is keeping yourself together,” and suggested that whistle-blowers find someone “like a minister or a shrink who’s confidentiality-protected,” because “this could go on for a while.” A high proportion of whistle-blowers reported divorces or other marital strain, family conflicts, and stress-related health issues including shingles, autoimmune disorders, panic attacks, insomnia, and migraines. Several of them said that the financial consequences were devastating. More than anything, I didn't realize how long these cases seem to take. But I wonder: if there was a way to reduce the duration of the cases, would that reduce the impact on whistleblowers? Is that possible somehow? Retaliation is also a big concern, of course, as the article makes clear. Also, I found this interesting: >the first documented whistle-blowing case in the United States took place in 1777, not long after the signing of the Declaration of Independence, when a group of naval officers, including Samuel Shaw and Richard Marven, witnessed their commanding officer torturing British prisoners of war. When they reported the misconduct to Congress, the commanding officer charged Shaw and Marven with libel, and both men were jailed. The following year, Congress passed a law protecting whistle-blowers, and Shaw and Marven were acquitted by a jury.

samcday 8y ago
But I wonder: if there was a way to reduce the duration of the cases, would that reduce the impact on whistleblowers? I remember reading somewhere recently about the standard M.O for federal cases. They take a long time in order to build an extremely solid case. That's why federal conviction rates are so high. Intuitively it makes sense. If you're gonna go after some naughty people for doing naughty things, you really don't want to rush the investigation and have the findings fall apart at trial.
- duxup 8y ago
  Indeed, Federal prosecutors tend to be pretty effective, and the amount of data in these corporate cases that needs to be reviewed is enormous.
- ramblerouser 8y ago
  This is totally incorrect. The high conviction rate is a result of extremely high maximum sentences. People who are 100% innocent often plead guilty after being threatened with a 30-year prison sentence that would be only 1 or 2 years under local law. Many federal crimes are unconstitutional and deliberately vague, like "lying (not volunteering incriminating evidence) to an investigator" and "mail fraud" which is just a way to charge you in federal court where the odds are stacked against you. The US federal judicialry is a kangaroo court. 99% of federal crimes should be repealed and maximum sentences reduced to be in line with state laws. Federal jury selection is also suspect, especially in cases involving "national security".
  - Angostura 8y ago
    Ah, a sovereign citizen?
  - chrisbennet 8y ago
    I assume whomever downvoted You has forgotten what happened to Aaron Schwartz.
    - 8y ago

refurb 8y ago

An interesting story of turning whistleblowing into a business is Ven-a-care pharmacy in the Florida Keys.[1] They started out as a small pharmacy, but now have a team of lawyers. They’ve gotten over $600M in whistleblower rewards as of the early 2010’s. Not sure what the total is now. [1]https://www.cnbc.com/id/41491563 https://www.cnbc.com/id/41491563

goldenkey 8y ago
Did they have lawyers to begin with? How did they get awarded these funds if it was not their case to begin with?
- howard941 8y ago
  The legal doctrine arose from the common law Qui Tam writ, modified by statute for use stateside. The wiki page is pretty good. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qui_tam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qui_tam

deogeo 8y ago

I'd be very grateful for a summary - I'm no fan of these long-form articles.

samcday 8y ago
For me, New Yorker articles are often about the journey, not the destination :)

gadders 8y ago

This guy did OK out of being a whistleblower (barring the prison sentence): https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-tax-birkenfeld/whistleblower-in-ubs-tax-case-gets-record-104-million-idUSBRE88A0TE20120911 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-tax-birkenfeld/whistl...

readhn 8y ago
you cant put a price on time behind prison bars and away from your family. what if during that time his father died? was 100million "worth it"?
- hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
  Two points: of course you can put a price on being away from your family. It's called a job, a millions of people do it all the time, often for long, extended periods (e.g. the military, expeditions, etc.) Being in prison is obviously extreme, but if getting out with several lifetimes of wealth means you never have to work again, could easily be a fair trade off. Second, he went to jail because he committed crimes from which he expected to gain, personally. He was at risk for a longer, more severe sentence had he been discovered and not cooperated with the government.
  - Gibbon1 8y ago
    > Two points: of course you can put a price on being away from your family. It's called a job In all due respect this is an opinion born of a sheltered life.
    - magduf 8y ago
      No, it sounds like your opinion is born of a sheltered life. You're probably thinking something along the lines of a job being enriching, fulfilling, etc. Sorry, but that's a minority of workers; for most people, a job is just daily drudgery they do to pay the rent, nothing more. It really is just a transaction where you trade your time for money.

platz 8y ago

So Freedom only got a slap on the wrist, basically

SuperGent 8y ago
When asked about the Freedom fine, [Patel] responded, "I decided to take it as a cost of doing business." This is the problem, why should you not take dubiously legal or moral action, if there isn't a significant deterrent?
- krageon 8y ago
  Because you shouldn't be an asshole. People aren't animals unless they have some sword of Damocles hanging over them keeping them in line, it is a conscious choice to do the wrong thing.
  - Aeolun 8y ago
    Of course it is, but you’re not in it for anything but the money.
  - magduf 8y ago
    You can't expect this of people. When you do expect this, as you seem to, you end up setting up a society where sociopaths like that guy are able to rise to the top and profit handsomely because the people who made the rules just can't seem to conceive of someone who doesn't mind being an asshole as long as it gets him ahead.
    - krageon 8y ago
      This is about the US. I don't live there, I do think that and while it is super bad everywhere on earth I think we can agree the US is pulling the cart in terms of terrible. Frankly you I think the argument that "this is just how it'll be" is not one that is terribly convincing on it's own. Yes, it'll go wrong. It'll also go right. I don't think we need to structure our society like a prison just because it has the capacity to be worse than we like it to be.

PaulHoule 8y ago

I hate the last few months of the year, when ads for car dealerships get pushed away by ads for "Medicare Advantage" plans which sound like something you need to get Grandma away from. It's kind of thing that seems like a scam to normal people, but politicians seem to think is a way to save money. Go figure. I don't see how you can save money when you start out by adding 13% extra at the beginning to give the private sector some profit to work with.

ataturk 8y ago

I learned quite early on that HR isn't there to protect employees and those "report something" lines are there to make sure whistleblowers are corralled and dealt with as harshly as possible. The government is worse. It's a religion--and you don't go against the orthodoxy if you know what's good for you. This is why I actually respect Donald Trump because for all his flaws, he is trying to drain the damn swamp. We have let a massive evil grow over this land and it's time we do something about it besides get pushed around. Had I to do it over again, I wouldn't bother being a whistleblower, I would just sneak into the worst people's homes and slit their throats. It would be less traumatic overall. I figure I could live with the murders. Remember what Solzhenitsyn said about how they "burned in the camps" after the realized they had nothing to lose and should have fought harder when they had the chance.

lifeisstillgood 8y ago

For me, Mark Felt sets the right template - get other people to do the publicising, leak anonymously and keep heavily in the shadows. Sometimes literally. Just do not put your head above the parapet.

jonathanstrange 8y ago
Some whistleblowers might have dismissed this option out of fear for their live. Being under public scrutiny can provide a lot of safety.

edoo 8y ago

This reads like an advertisement for the FBI. A bigger story is how Obama removed protections and actively attacked whistle blowers after promising the most transparent government ever. That had true toll.

iheartpotatoes 8y ago
You mean like when Obama got legislation passed to protect them? https://www.whistleblowers.org/news/obama-signs-whistleblower-protection-bill-into-law/ https://www.whistleblowers.org/news/obama-signs-whistleblowe...
- edoo 8y ago
  I mean more like his actual actions vs campaign promises. As usual the name of the legislation is the opposite of what it does. That bill allowed further restrictions on government employees, attempting to unshield them from the 1989 whistleblower protection act. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-van-buren/silencing-whistleblowers_b_4895847.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-van-buren/silencing-whi... https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/jan/10/jake-tapper/cnns-tapper-obama-has-used-espionage-act-more-all-/ https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/jan/10...
- Dirlewanger 8y ago
  Didn't help Snowden much.
  - iheartpotatoes 8y ago
    He was never charged, hence could not be pardoned. However, it is duly noted that I'm trying to reconcile being objective about Obama's own nuanced position, while also supporting whistleblowers like Snowden, Manning and Winner.
bigpoo 8y ago
Big Poo thinks the bigger story is really how bad our privatized health care system is. Big Poo thinks we should move to a medicare for all system. So we can be on par with every single other industrialized nation in the world.

snarf21 8y ago

I keep thinking that in cases of any real size that these people should be put into witness relocation programs. Additionally, continue to pay them their current salary but not require them to work. We need people who know to speak out and therefore need to protect them.

e40 8y ago
Additionally, continue to pay them their current salary but not require them to work. An unintended consequence of this might be that people make false allegations. It's tough to find the right balance. Maybe they get a stipend to live on, and the money is put into escrow for when the case is resolved.
- snarf21 8y ago
  Yeah, the presumption is that entry in the program is based on them sharing documents and other data with authorities that pass some level of scrutiny.
Buttons840 8y ago
Or give them a small percentage of what they save tax payers. A whistle-blower who saves tax payers billions should be set for life. Guess not all whistle-blowing is about stealing money, but I best most of it is.
- macintux 8y ago
  > Or give them a small percentage of what they save tax payers That's exactly what the law encourages.
- roywiggins 8y ago
  That's exactly how SEC whistleblower awards work. https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-44 https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-44

Aeolun 8y ago

This wasn’t so much about the personal toll of whistleblowing as the fucked up system and the apparent impossibility to do wrong as a US corporation. This was a really depressing story on multiple levels.

rebuilder 8y ago
It seems like the biggest problem outlined in the article was the inability to get a job as a known whistleblower. I think that would happen in pretty much any system, unfortunately. It takes a lot of courage to rat on an employer. Your career is probably over if you do.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

ilaksh 8y ago

For me there is a related issue that is just as problematic or worse. There are certain things that are critical of the US government that are simply not allowed to be spoken in most US centric places. The public effectively censors itself. I could mention some specific things but that would trigger it and then no one would see my comment. In general you can get away with mentioning things from the distant past but nothing particularly heinous or recent. I think that this is because people want to believe that their side has a moral high ground.

Red_Pill_Phil 8y ago
Ive noticed this too alot lately and I've actually started to question if our ideals are really moral. I think we have a very serious conversation ahead of us as a culture. Are we the bad guys?
- boomboomsubban 8y ago
  We've avoided that conversation for two hundred years, why is it ahead of us now? If anything, blind patriotism makes it easier to ignore.
  - flyingpenguin 8y ago
    Every single time I mention something good about any country other than the US to my relatives they get SUPER angry and shout "Then why the F* don't you move there". It is so confusing to me. Not saying I love the US but if someone did... shouldn't they want to improve it?
    - Nasrudith 8y ago
      They don't want it to be good they want to feel good about it. Introspection makes them angry. This toxic anti-intellectualism is sadly common and has been promoted by people in power for ages. One would think an advertising culture is to blame but given that it happens even in the absence of it it totally predates it. Probably tribalistic.

samstave 8y ago

There is an insidious aspect with respect to Tech Workers. You don't need to be a whistle-blower to have a toll on your life/career. Talk too much shit about a company in Silicon Valley and you're fucked, regardless of the merits of your claims against them. #TeflonUnicorn

maze-le 8y ago
Any data to back up that claim?

sleepybrett 8y ago

Should whistleblowers be entitled to some portion of the fine levied against the offender to offset their losses (and encourage whistleblowing)?

munificent 8y ago
...did you read the article? This is literally one of the main subjects of the article.

mywacaday 8y ago

Ireland is still recovering from the Maurice McCabe case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garda_whistleblower_scandal#Maurice_McCabe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garda_whistleblower_scandal#Ma... He was ostracized by his colleagues and even painted as a pedophile by Senior Gardai(Police) trying to discredit him. An absolute horror of a story when you get into the details, spent nearly a decade proving his life fighting the case and clearing his name. Can't imagine any Gardai whistleblowers in Ireland for a long time.

gwern 8y ago

> A few days later, in early September, 2014, Sewell was rushed to the hospital with a serious head injury after an accidental fall inside his house. Medical personnel found a clot in his brain. After three days in the hospital, Sewell died, at the age of thirty-nine. Head injuries are no joke, people. Even if you recover from them, the epidemiology suggests there are life-long consequences for mental health, intelligence, income, impulse control...

crb002 8y ago

He should have moved to Iowa. Under Iowa Code 730, blacklisting has Civil and criminal penalties.

mjevans 8y ago
How could an average person actually prove this? Particularly with opaque and/or feeling based decisions?

agumonkey 8y ago

Maybe we need more patient and stealth activism.