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Oslo made its city center basically car-free

488 points by prostoalex 8y ago

pibefision 8y ago
Madrid is doing the same.
- macintux 8y ago
  The article concludes with that.
samstave 8y ago
I seriously think that San Francisco can benefit from this. Each zone in SF is actually very small - and very walkable. In my extreme SF transport utopia - SF would only allow pedestrians, bikes, and electric muni transport in certain regions of the city.
- TarpitCarnivore 8y ago
  I think most of the metros in the US can handle this quite well. The last mile is far easier to solve in a city than a suburb.
- themagician 8y ago
  Market and Geary would be the best candidates for this. Traffic is so bad in these areas it’s kind of pointless anyway. All the traffic is just thru traffic.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - xvedejas 8y ago
    Mission would be a good candidate too. We've already re-routed most of the traffic using tactics like mandatory right-turns to other streets like South Van Ness, Cesar Chavez, San Jose, and Alemany.
- mschuetz 8y ago
  One km of market street and the entire Fisherman's Wharf area up to pier 35 would be great pedestrian areas.
- squidbot 8y ago
  The biggest issue with bikes and walking in SF (as well as Seattle) is the hills. Oslo is relatively flat, as are other very bike centered cities like Amsterdam. Mind you, the rise of electric bikes is helping a lot, but it seems like hilly cities would only be able to get rid of cars if they replaced them with better, efficient, clean public transit. And it doesn't have to be just buses. Seattle, where they exist, escalators are very helpful. Maybe trams? I'm not a public trans expert by any means though. But as a guy who's not getting any younger, I definitely start to appreciate a hill escalator (there's a couple here in Seattle, some public, some parts of buildings) when my knees are hurting.
  - themagician 8y ago
    You mean like the cable car?
    - kolinko 8y ago
      Just a modern one. I know cable cars are a tourist attraction in SF, but even the ones on Market are like 50 years (seriously) behind what you can see in Europe.
      - samstave 8y ago
        Ive often thought how neat it would be to have a pirate cable car which was capable of putting a clamp down on the cable and moving along, releasing when it needed to move about like a normal car. Source: actually born in san francisco and have thought this since the 80s
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
  - hjnilsson 8y ago
    To call Oslo flat is a great understatment. Parts of the city are located with 1000ft+ height differences. Just the very center is the flat part. Oslo is very different from Copenhagen or Amsterdam in this regard. It’s probably quite close to Seattle in elevation change considering relatively few people live in the flat parts. http://en-gb.topographic-map.com/places/Oslo-1311779/ http://en-gb.topographic-map.com/places/Oslo-1311779/ http://en-gb.topographic-map.com/places/San-Francisco-3532076/ http://en-gb.topographic-map.com/places/San-Francisco-353207...
- hjnilsson 8y ago
  A great contributing factor in Oslo is that very few people live in the city center. It’s only business. I would imagine in the US, residents would still like to have cars accessible. But maybe in SF it’s the same with business-only areas?
- andys627 8y ago
  I think woonerfs would work well in SF and elsewhere. Cars are allowed, but they have the share the space with pedestrians and bikes. Speed limit is super slow. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woonerf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woonerf Would be sweet to see signs that say "woonerf" all over the US too.
kstenerud 8y ago
Huh. I didn't realize Oslo hadn't done this yet. All (or most) European City centers are car free.
- chrisseaton 8y ago
  > All (or most) European City centers are car free. I don't know how someone can say something so obviously and demonstrably false with a straight face.
  - kstenerud 8y ago
    Easy. I write based on what I've observed.
    - chrisseaton 8y ago
      Which European city centres are car free? Let's just think about capitals. London? Brussels? Paris? Berlin? Dublin? Lisbon? Bern? Rome? None of these places are car free. You can go on Google maps and see cars everywhere. So we know 'all' is nonsense for a start. And 'most' is looking pretty doubtful already.
      - estebank 8y ago
        It's possible that the GP is comparing against their experience in American cities. If that is the case, then yes, most European cities are "car free". I would qualify Amsterdam, for example, as "car free" even though it technically isn't, it's just not a city I would ever think of driving in because every other way of moving around, including walking is so much nicer and you see few cars compared to any place in the US. Many times when going to towns in the US I notice than myself and my wife are the only people walking on the sidewalks for considerable amounts of time.
    - Toutou 8y ago
      Then pay the optician a visit soon.
- 8y ago
hjnilsson 8y ago
Oslo is still heavily lacking in bike accessibility, more so than the article presents. New bike paths are around the periphery of the center. In the city center, there are close to zero bike parking spots. Everyone who wants to take the bike to work, must have parking in the workplace. In addition the tram tracks on many streets are a hazard to taking the bike. But things are improving here slowly Public transport though is probably the best in the world per capita, with subway, buses or trams going every couple of minutes. So this compensates (as the article states). Overall the reduction of cars is a great improvement overall.
- tyfon 8y ago
  Public transportation is indeed good, I didn't have a car when I lived there. Now I live in the countryside so I have a Toyota. But as someone who lives outside of Oslo it is hell visiting my friends that still live there if I want to bring my children and need to use the car. It's also almost impossible to bike around in the winter as the snow clearing efforts are not really up to standards anymore. While I support less cars in the centre I think they went a bit too far in this case.
  - mikepurvis 8y ago
    Typically the suggested solution in these cases is parking at a commuter rail lot somewhere out of town and then taking the train in. Obviously that requires restraint and forward-planning in terms of how much stuff you can bring, but should be doable in most cases.
    - tyfon 8y ago
      Yes it is possible, but instead of 30 minutes each way by car it takes 1.5 - 2 hours each way depending on how well the different transportation systems correspond. With a three year old and a seven year old it's not so easy.
      - mikepurvis 8y ago
        Totally appreciate that— I have kids myself in the same age range, and we've taken lots of trips together by bus, subway, and regional rail, so I do hear where you're coming from. At the same time, the road access and parking facilities that you need to exist at your destination in order to be able to drive door to door do have real costs, and those costs aren't borne by the person who drives in a few times a year to visit. I suspect that there is probably a sliding scale of mechanisms by which you could trade money and time/convenience back and forth on this trip— for example, paying more to park closer in to the city (shorter transit trip) or transferring to a cab and paying the cab (instead of transit) to get between your parking spot and destination. You haven't previously had to consider these options because the default one was so obviously the cheapest and most convenient; maybe that's part of the value of cities drawing a hard line on this, that now everyone who previously just drove by default now really has to consider alternatives. Anyway, I really do respect Oslo and other cities for giving this a try— despite the inconvenience to people in your situation, it'll be neat to see more of what else comes of it.
themagician 8y ago
I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile in so many ways. I’d love to see a major metro area in the US do this. San Francisco would actually be a decent candidate for this. Market St + 4 blocks in each direction. Cities existed before without cars and I suspect they will exist again after they leave. Sucks that I had to live in the time period with them. Life is more than just figuring out how quickly and cheaply you can go from one place to another. I feel like a lot of you are missing that.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  >I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. >We are slaves to the automobile in so many ways. >Sucks that I had to live in the time period with them. Focusing your hatred on inanimate man-made objects does not address the root of the problem (and is probably not healthy). You wouldn't blame crowbars for break-ins (I mean you might, but I hope you don't). The way forward is to develop superior alternatives (in the same way that the car succeeded the horse) not to increase cost. Increasing cost is zero sum at best. Developing better solutions is a net gain. Also, there's only so much pedestrianization you can do. Unless you turn LA (for example) into Manhatten density wise it is always going to be fundamentally pedestrian unfriendly because most of it was designed around cars. Cities that were designed when people walked everywhere and goods were transported in animal drawn carts are going to be more walk-able. Some amount of individual and private (they are different things) transit will always be necessary (assuming quality of life is to stay the same or increase).
  - recursive 8y ago
    I think I appreciate what you're saying but I don't think the analogy works exactly. How much crowbar marketing do you see in a day?
yhoiseth 8y ago
While I really like the changes, this article reads like a PR piece from Urban Sharing and/or the city government.
- dbdjfjrjvebd 8y ago
  The city government is deeply unpopular. Largely because of these changes.
hkon 8y ago
What's interesting is that almost all traffic in eastern Norway goes through the city. Instead of having the highways go around it, they go through it. So while the city center is "car free", there is still alot of traffic and pollution.
- jononor 8y ago
  The highway from from east to west straight though Oslo center is underground since som years now. If you ever go to the Oslo Opera, the highway is below you somewhere. To call Oslo car free is an oversimplification, but the efforts and results over the last 15 years are tremendous.
  - dbdjfjrjvebd 8y ago
    It comes above ground quite close to the city center. There is plenty of pollution from the motorway by Frognerstrand and the massive road junction by Gamlebyen.
mschuetz 8y ago
Vienna also turned one of its biggest shopping streets into a mostly pedestrian zone a few years ago. The results are great, the only issue is that two thirds of it are shared spaces where cars are still allowed to drive, albeit witout priority over pedestrians. Mostly because some parties vehemently fought against pedestrian areas, claiming businesses will lose customers and shops will have to close. Turns out, there are more people than ever and at times it's so crowded that you can't even get through on your bike. Simply because it's a nice space now where people can enjoy shopping, food and going for a walk without constant car noise and smell. It's great. * https://www.wien.gv.at/verkehr/strassen/images/mariahilferstrasse-fuzo-gr.jpg https://www.wien.gv.at/verkehr/strassen/images/mariahilferst... Also, large parts of the inner city district are exclusively pedestrian areas and it makes these areas so much more enjoyable: * https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Wien_01_Stephansplatz_a.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Wien_01_... Compared to when it was still a car street up until 1977: * https://images.derstandard.at/img/2014/02/20/1392699545647-stephansplatz.jpg?s=90cfd14d https://images.derstandard.at/img/2014/02/20/1392699545647-s... * https://images.derstandard.at/img/2013/08/12/1375652399990-Unbenannt-2.jpg?s=c648175e https://images.derstandard.at/img/2013/08/12/1375652399990-U...
- close04 8y ago
  Keep in mind that some infrastructure has to stay in place to allow for things like supply vehicles or emergency services. The "losing business because you can't park right in front of it" is BS in most big western European city centers where you either go to a paid parking or to a spot on the street 10-15 minutes away from your intended destination sometimes.
  - mschuetz 8y ago
    > Keep in mind that some infrastructure has to stay in place to allow for things like supply vehicles or emergency services. There are designated time slots for suply vehicles in the core pedestrian zone, and the pedestrian friendly streets support these without issue. The two outer zones are the shared spaces where cars may drive at any time, which is a mistake in my opinion. Should be the same as the center. Pedestrian only, except for designated time slots for supply vehicles. > The "losing business because you can't park right in front of it" is BS in most big western European city centers where you either go to a paid parking or to a spot on the street 10-15 minutes away from your intended destination sometimes. Yes, that argument appeared often and it never made sense because there never was any available parking space before, except for nearby parking houses that are still available. So pretty much nothing changed, except that some neighbours lost a few parking spaces.
biswaroop 8y ago
More information from 2017 about the fight to remove cars in Oslo: https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jun/13/oslo-ban-cars-backlash-parking https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jun/13/oslo-ban-cars... It's interesting to see the political pushback from conservatives. Still, removing parking seems like a good way to get rid of cars (especially that large fraction of traffic that circles around cities searching for parking).
Kjeldahl 8y ago
What the PR piece doesn't show is that during winter (4-6 months a year), very few ride bicycles around. In winter most people don't stay outside a lot, the weather is harsh (people do ski, but not inside the cities). They have installed play and outside work areas, which are mostly empty during winter, and require maintenance to get them in shape again for the next summer. A lot of shops are moving or closing down. Young people sporting bicycles in summer surely looks good. It doesn't look quite as good with 5-6 shopping bags with groceries for the kids. It's an interesting experiment for sure. Hopefully the single kids have enough money to keep the city thriving, because families are moving out to be able to have a car. Parents in Norway also spend a lot of time caring for their children, which includes driving them around to various activities. Most people who say raising kids in Norway without a car if fine usually haven't had any kids yet.
- calcifer 8y ago
  > It doesn't look quite as good with 5-6 shopping bags with groceries for the kids. Here in the Netherlands people seem to have no problems doing exactly that on a bike. Is Oslo any significantly different than, say, Amsterdam? Last week we had all sorts of harsh whether (sub-zero temps, heavy rain, snow) during my morning commute, which didn't seem to affect bike traffic one bit. > Parents in Norway also spend a lot of time caring for their children The subtext being if you are against cars you are a bad parent? > which includes driving them around to various activities No, parenting includes taking them to places, not driving.
  - danielvf 8y ago
    In winter Oslo averages 10C lower high temperatures and an hour and half less sunlight than Amsterdam. Oslo is also less dense, and spread around both sides of a fjord.
  - kolinko 8y ago
    https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=temperatures+in+oslo+vs+amsterdam https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=temperatures+in+oslo+v... Oslo is 5 deg celsius colder in winter than Amsterdam. You sometimes have sub-0, for them it's a norm. There is a big difference between 5C-10C and 0C (a Warsaw-native here, which is closer in terms of temperatures to Oslo)
gt40 8y ago
Maybe I missed something but how do old people get around?
- smileysteve 8y ago
  Old people are often capable of walking as well. Or taking transit. It's in best interests to encourage the elderly to stay fit and capable. A better question is how do disabled people get around, and how do we prevent people from becoming disabled. Obesity and lack of activity often cause disabilities more than age.
  - notatoad 8y ago
    >A better question is how do disabled people get around according to the oslo public transit website, all buses are wheelchair accessible, and all except three tram lines are wheelchair accessible. https://www.visitoslo.com/en/oslo/practical-information/accessibility/ https://www.visitoslo.com/en/oslo/practical-information/acce...
  - elektronaut 8y ago
    People unable to use public transit are eligible for subsidized taxi rides.
- caspervonb 8y ago
  Public transit, trams and busses at every corner more or less.
hartbeatnt 8y ago
This is my dream for downtown LA. Never gonna happen, but a man can dream
- nkantar 8y ago
  I'm an avid driver who lives in LA (Westside), and this sounds pretty great, honestly. Driving in and through DTLA is a total nightmare, and public transit has a hard time covering enough of the relatively large area. I love being able to take the Expo Line to LA Live, especially for the LA Auto Show (amusingly enough), and would welcome more of that.
avar 8y ago
We need to end socialism for cars, but I think this way of going about it is probably counterproductive. Here in Amsterdam we also have an increase in car-free zones, but one effect of that is just to increase car parking pressure in the neighborhoods of those of us who live adjacent to the center. I think the real solution is to end socialism for cars. This problem will solve itself as soon as the land being used by parking spaces isn't specifically zoned, and thus would need to compete price-wise with using the same amount of land for residential developments or shops. It's also interesting to see how this breaks down as a political issue. E.g. in Amsterdam the generally free market party (VVD) has a notable break from their "their market will take care of it" policy of wanting more government-subsidized car parking, v.s. the leftist parties.
- jpmoyn 8y ago
  I highly doubt throwing this issue at the free market will result in less car traffic in the city.
  - avar 8y ago
    Why not? E.g. now the market price for where I live is to a first approximation something like 2000 EUR/month for an apartment on a single floor in a 4 floor house. Meanwhile I can simply apply for a parking space right outside my place, and only need to pay something like a 250 EUR/yr road tax (depending on vehicle & weight etc.). That's a flat fee for the entirety of Nord-Holland (my "state"), I'd pay nothing for parking other than needing to apply. Assuming a parking space is 6x3m = 18m^2 then 4x of those add up to 72m^2, a typical size for an apartment around here. So if someone parking a car in a 18m^2 parking space had to compete with the market for real estate they'd need to pay 2000 EUR/month for parking their car, because we could otherwise build housing there. That's before you even get to the problem that the fact that you can only build up to 4 floors around here is also an artificial government restraint, so the true market price of a 18m^2 parking spot is way more than 2000 EUR/month in the center of Amsterdam. There's no reason to ban cars. You just need to make them pay a fair price for the land they're using and the problem will take care of itself.
  - CalRobert 8y ago
Tade0 8y ago
It focused on Ring 1, the innermost ring road of Oslo’s three motorways, a 1.7km sq area that is home to around 1,000 people of whom 88.1% do not own a car. 1.7km sq is... not a lot really? I measured the distance between the NW and SE ends of the zone and it's 1650m - or about a mile. That's a 25min walk at a leisurely pace.
renholder 8y ago
>...as in other cities that have converted some streets to pedestrian-only areas... These "pedestrian-only" zones certainly aren't unique to Oslo. See Drottninggatan[0] in Stockholm, Grafton[1] in Dublin, Strøget[2] in Köpenhamn (Copenhagen), Kärntner Strasse[3] in Vienna, ad infinitum... I'm nonplussed that this is in any way news-worthy; however, it seems to be an American website, so maybe that's why? [0] - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Drottninggatan_sommaren_2006.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Drottnin... [1] - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Grafton_St%2C_Dublin.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Grafton_... [2] - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/Str%C3%B8get%2C_Copenhagen.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/Str%C3%B... [3] - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/K%C3%A4rtner_Stra%C3%9Fe%2C_Ecke_Walfischgasse.JPG https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/K%C3%A4r...
- dbdjfjrjvebd 8y ago
  FYI the Danish would spell Copenhagen København.
  - renholder 8y ago
    That Ø[0], though... [0] - https://i.imgur.com/CI7Ynx6.gifv https://i.imgur.com/CI7Ynx6.gifv
- karmelapple 8y ago
  Isn’t part of the interest here that Oslo made a shift, rather than always having had it this way? This is starting to catch hold in cities of all sizes in the USA, too. Usually a couple roads in an already somewhat-popular commercial district will be shut down, either certain days or all the time, and many cities are seeing noticeable impacts on economic activity.
  - sampo 8y ago
    > Isn’t part of the interest here that Oslo made a shift, rather than always having had it this way? Copenhagen made the shift in 1962. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Str%C3%B8get https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Str%C3%B8get Interestingly, many local merchants opposed the shift in fear of losing customers. But then soon saw how the pedestrianized street started to boast more shoppers to their stores.
dbdjfjrjvebd 8y ago
Meanwhile in the real world outside of this PR piece most journeys in Oslo are still by car, the air pollution continues to be terrible and the local government is deeply unpopular. Property prices in the center are lower than around the ring road as people with families are forced to move out of the center.
dr_dshiv 8y ago
I moved from Snap Diego to Amsterdam last year and loved giving up cars. We don't own or use cars anymore. I've got three kids. They bike to school, to piano lessons, etc. If it is raining, I give them rain pants. They love the freedom, I love the freedom from schlepping. I commute to work by bike then train then bike and back again. It is beautiful -- and no more traffic. I get exercise built into my day. Sucks about the rain pants. My problem with America: low expectations. No one thinks the vision is possible. Too bad, so sad.
tallanvor 8y ago
This article is complete bullshit. Yes, there are some streets that are mostly free of cars during the day, but the surrounding streets are as busy as ever. Reducing parking spots and increasing bike lanes has not made a noticeable difference in the number of cars on the road, at least from a pedestrian standpoint. I would love to see fewer cars in Olso, especially during days like today when they lowered the speed limit due to the weather causing increased pollution, but even with everything the current government has tried, it isn't making a real difference.
geff82 8y ago
The problem is really not cars, but (if any) the way they have to be built. You could easily fit 4 people in a 400kilo vehicle on 2,5m length and move them safely at speeds of up to 100km/h. But crash regulations are so strict and the buildable types of cars so restricted that we all have to have the heavy, expensive, has driven cars that we now have.
svendbt 8y ago
I live in Oslo. Calling it car-free is a stretch. The city council have done a great deal of improvements - increased frequency of public transport, city bikes, most parking spaces in the inner city are removed (still plenty of private parking garages), paid roadside parking per hour in outer city districts (only residents can park long term) and a $5-$8 toll road around the city. They have also opened up the seaside to the public - you can walk along the sea for from one side of town to the other for hours. This has definitely made for a much more lively city, but it comes with a hidden cost that is not so easily visible - gentrification. The lively city with its hundreds of new bars and restaurants are attracting young, educated people, while the difficulties of owning a car drives away the families that need their car to visit their grandparents, go to IKEA, drive to kindergarten on the other side of town etc. Sure, it's possible to use public transport, but everyone who has has small kids know that you do not want to spend an hour to get home with hungry kids. We (family with two small kids) moved 5 miles out and get the best of both worlds instead. I would never live downtown though.
- hmottestad 8y ago
  I live in Oslo too. And I work in the center. This article is a HUGE lie. Our city center not car free, not even almost. I don't think Oslo is any more car free than it was 10 years ago. And roads that are made car free don't become traffic free. We still allow busses, trams, lorries and taxis on all the recently made "car-free" roads. Oslo is about as car free as any other decent european city.
fabianhjr 8y ago
Just as a general reference on how to design carfree cities, check out this site: http://carfree.com/ http://carfree.com/
elamje 8y ago
Would it be possible to build public transit, i.e. light rail and regular train, on top of concrete? This could leverage the current state of American infrastructure, and eliminate the need to demolish road, to replace with rail lines.
mort96 8y ago
We did? TIL.
Tiktaalik 8y ago
A much easier way to reduce pedestrian traffic fatalities than inventing a perfect automatic driver.
rconti 8y ago
Sweet; headed to Norway and Sweden this summer, I'll definitely make it a point to visit Oslo then. (Although I was probably going to anyway).
phillywalsh 8y ago
Until living in city centers becomes more affordable, restricting vehicle use only creates problems. Sure restricting vehicles is nice for people who live in the city, but people who can't afford to live in the city depend on personal vehicles to get around. Public transportation doesn't solve it either, it creates a distinct inequality in mobility. Where those in the city can access things whenever they please by walking or bike, those who would depend on public transportation are at the mercy of the transportation system. What the vehicle does is provides those outside the city equal freedom and flexibility as those inside who can walk or ride a bike to their destination.
vages 8y ago
I live in Oslo. This article is exaggerating how far this process has come as much as its pictures exaggerate the amount of sun. Come summer and they'll both be around, but for now there's plenty of cars.
hmottestad 8y ago
"Hahahahahahahahahaha. The city center in Oslo is not even close to being car free." - someone who works in the center and has to cross multiple roads with cars to get to the office
lazyjones 8y ago
This affects a whopping 1.9 out of 454 square kilometers. So don‘t imagine a car-less capital city in Europe. The effect on pollution and noise will be very small, unless you live in or visit the city centre.
charliebrownau 8y ago
If every city in EU+West had Electric Bus's that were ALWAYS on time and effient with a proper ticketing system Along with electric trains for long distance AND proper dedicated push bike lanes with push bike parking it could go a long way to remove the "need" for most people to drive to the city every day
dboreham 8y ago
If you have an infinite amount of money (from Oil), burying your freeways is a great idea. Google maps gets confused in those tunnels though, at least it did for me.
nonbel 8y ago
Prediction: Once the initial excitement/novelty wears off people from the surrounding suburbs/communities will find it more difficult to shop/visit/etc in the city and revenues will drop. As a result, businesses will move to the outskirts so they can make more money, making living in the city more difficult (and thus less attractive). So people will move outwards as well. This will leave the city center either desolated or turned into some sort of historical site or park.
mises 8y ago
I keep running into this assumption that everybody loves somewhere with a pleasant climate. Or at least somewhere cool. In summer, many Southern cities are extremely hot and humid; you couldn't pay most people enough to walk or bike. We like our AC, thank you very much. Maybe better public transit would help, but we don't even like walking the last mile. It's a good plan, but this is the "San Francisco Bubble": assuming what works for you works for everyone else. Another good example is electric scooters. Many people live in situations where, if they walked or biked, even for the last mile, they would have to shower literally every time they moved a mile or more. I also read a very astute comment pointing out that biking is not good for hauling kids, moving groceries, etc. The best solution for kids is probably a stroller, whic means now you have to walk rather than bike. Lastly, speed. Outside of peak traffic, no comparison. I lived in Houston for a while; it could take an hour and a half to drive from one end of the city to the other in usual traffic. Walking or biking, it would probably be something like six and twelve, respectively. Only one city has been truly constrained; NYC. You can't just make everybody move into a little urban core and expect they won't leave. Can't fit that many people. For reference, Oslo has population 600k. Greater Houston Area is estimated to top 10m by 2040.
erkken 8y ago
Fantastic. I also believe we are slaves to the cars, in such a way that we have become blind to the fact how they destroy our societies and people. Most people are so used to the cars that they find it hard we would be happier without them, like my dad who grown up in the 50's with the mindset that every man should have a car. Not to mention all the developing countries with a middle class who see it as a step towards happiness (can't blame them though). The car ia a great invention, and I love to drive them. Our family does not own a car, but rather a few bikes including a cargo bike which we use to do the shopping including Ikea visits. It makes me cry a bit of happiness every time I read about this kind of initiatives.
jannikarndt 8y ago
It is interesting how the “vice mayor of urban development” only talks about getting rid of “private cars”. While train, bus and bike can get your quite far, in large enough cities it will still be a challenge to get to and from many places. Not in the city center, but in the outer areas where people commute to and from. I live in Hamburg (Germany) where we have a subway, S-Bahn (similar) and a quite good bus network. Still, three big car sharing companies are successfully operating: Car2Go (by Daimler), DriveNow (by BMW) and Miles (private startup). They _do_ fill a need. Another experiment will be started in April by the company I work for, MOIA (by VW): They provide ride sharing with a completely electric van (based on the VW Crafter) with 6 seats and permanently employed drivers. The focus is on the commuters who don't have a train-/subway-station nearby. I think there are two lessons here: Just removing all cars will probably not work, we need at least intermediate solutions to slowly move people from owning a private car to shared solutions. And second, many of these mobility on demand/mobility as a service-solutions would be very hard to pull off without mobile phones and uniquitous mobile internet access.
funkythings 8y ago
I do not like Oslos city center. Everything seems so over-engineered and non-organic
siliconunit 8y ago
I would be very careful about outsourcing our basic civil right to move around freely. Very careful, extremely careful. I live in Europe and I fully appreciate cheap public transport and decongested city centers, but I appreciate more a going fully electric revolution, and still keep my EV and drive wherever I please at any time.. I would not trust any government with the power to own my means of transportation fully,ever. We are living in an era of infantilisation of the society, where we close our eyes to any risk or danger and give up our basic freedoms for a fear of responsibility, this could have catastrophic consequences if the 'wrong' type of ruling class gets into power.

488 points by prostoalex 8y ago

pibefision 8y ago

Madrid is doing the same.

macintux 8y ago
The article concludes with that.

samstave 8y ago

I seriously think that San Francisco can benefit from this. Each zone in SF is actually very small - and very walkable. In my extreme SF transport utopia - SF would only allow pedestrians, bikes, and electric muni transport in certain regions of the city.

TarpitCarnivore 8y ago
I think most of the metros in the US can handle this quite well. The last mile is far easier to solve in a city than a suburb.
themagician 8y ago
Market and Geary would be the best candidates for this. Traffic is so bad in these areas it’s kind of pointless anyway. All the traffic is just thru traffic.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- xvedejas 8y ago
  Mission would be a good candidate too. We've already re-routed most of the traffic using tactics like mandatory right-turns to other streets like South Van Ness, Cesar Chavez, San Jose, and Alemany.
mschuetz 8y ago
One km of market street and the entire Fisherman's Wharf area up to pier 35 would be great pedestrian areas.
squidbot 8y ago
The biggest issue with bikes and walking in SF (as well as Seattle) is the hills. Oslo is relatively flat, as are other very bike centered cities like Amsterdam. Mind you, the rise of electric bikes is helping a lot, but it seems like hilly cities would only be able to get rid of cars if they replaced them with better, efficient, clean public transit. And it doesn't have to be just buses. Seattle, where they exist, escalators are very helpful. Maybe trams? I'm not a public trans expert by any means though. But as a guy who's not getting any younger, I definitely start to appreciate a hill escalator (there's a couple here in Seattle, some public, some parts of buildings) when my knees are hurting.
- themagician 8y ago
  You mean like the cable car?
  - kolinko 8y ago
    Just a modern one. I know cable cars are a tourist attraction in SF, but even the ones on Market are like 50 years (seriously) behind what you can see in Europe.
    - samstave 8y ago
      Ive often thought how neat it would be to have a pirate cable car which was capable of putting a clamp down on the cable and moving along, releasing when it needed to move about like a normal car. Source: actually born in san francisco and have thought this since the 80s
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
- hjnilsson 8y ago
  To call Oslo flat is a great understatment. Parts of the city are located with 1000ft+ height differences. Just the very center is the flat part. Oslo is very different from Copenhagen or Amsterdam in this regard. It’s probably quite close to Seattle in elevation change considering relatively few people live in the flat parts. http://en-gb.topographic-map.com/places/Oslo-1311779/ http://en-gb.topographic-map.com/places/Oslo-1311779/ http://en-gb.topographic-map.com/places/San-Francisco-3532076/ http://en-gb.topographic-map.com/places/San-Francisco-353207...
hjnilsson 8y ago
A great contributing factor in Oslo is that very few people live in the city center. It’s only business. I would imagine in the US, residents would still like to have cars accessible. But maybe in SF it’s the same with business-only areas?
andys627 8y ago
I think woonerfs would work well in SF and elsewhere. Cars are allowed, but they have the share the space with pedestrians and bikes. Speed limit is super slow. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woonerf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woonerf Would be sweet to see signs that say "woonerf" all over the US too.

kstenerud 8y ago

Huh. I didn't realize Oslo hadn't done this yet. All (or most) European City centers are car free.

chrisseaton 8y ago
> All (or most) European City centers are car free. I don't know how someone can say something so obviously and demonstrably false with a straight face.
- kstenerud 8y ago
  Easy. I write based on what I've observed.
  - chrisseaton 8y ago
    Which European city centres are car free? Let's just think about capitals. London? Brussels? Paris? Berlin? Dublin? Lisbon? Bern? Rome? None of these places are car free. You can go on Google maps and see cars everywhere. So we know 'all' is nonsense for a start. And 'most' is looking pretty doubtful already.
    - estebank 8y ago
      It's possible that the GP is comparing against their experience in American cities. If that is the case, then yes, most European cities are "car free". I would qualify Amsterdam, for example, as "car free" even though it technically isn't, it's just not a city I would ever think of driving in because every other way of moving around, including walking is so much nicer and you see few cars compared to any place in the US. Many times when going to towns in the US I notice than myself and my wife are the only people walking on the sidewalks for considerable amounts of time.
  - Toutou 8y ago
    Then pay the optician a visit soon.
8y ago

hjnilsson 8y ago

Oslo is still heavily lacking in bike accessibility, more so than the article presents. New bike paths are around the periphery of the center. In the city center, there are close to zero bike parking spots. Everyone who wants to take the bike to work, must have parking in the workplace. In addition the tram tracks on many streets are a hazard to taking the bike. But things are improving here slowly Public transport though is probably the best in the world per capita, with subway, buses or trams going every couple of minutes. So this compensates (as the article states). Overall the reduction of cars is a great improvement overall.

tyfon 8y ago
Public transportation is indeed good, I didn't have a car when I lived there. Now I live in the countryside so I have a Toyota. But as someone who lives outside of Oslo it is hell visiting my friends that still live there if I want to bring my children and need to use the car. It's also almost impossible to bike around in the winter as the snow clearing efforts are not really up to standards anymore. While I support less cars in the centre I think they went a bit too far in this case.
- mikepurvis 8y ago
  Typically the suggested solution in these cases is parking at a commuter rail lot somewhere out of town and then taking the train in. Obviously that requires restraint and forward-planning in terms of how much stuff you can bring, but should be doable in most cases.
  - tyfon 8y ago
    Yes it is possible, but instead of 30 minutes each way by car it takes 1.5 - 2 hours each way depending on how well the different transportation systems correspond. With a three year old and a seven year old it's not so easy.
    - mikepurvis 8y ago
      Totally appreciate that— I have kids myself in the same age range, and we've taken lots of trips together by bus, subway, and regional rail, so I do hear where you're coming from. At the same time, the road access and parking facilities that you need to exist at your destination in order to be able to drive door to door do have real costs, and those costs aren't borne by the person who drives in a few times a year to visit. I suspect that there is probably a sliding scale of mechanisms by which you could trade money and time/convenience back and forth on this trip— for example, paying more to park closer in to the city (shorter transit trip) or transferring to a cab and paying the cab (instead of transit) to get between your parking spot and destination. You haven't previously had to consider these options because the default one was so obviously the cheapest and most convenient; maybe that's part of the value of cities drawing a hard line on this, that now everyone who previously just drove by default now really has to consider alternatives. Anyway, I really do respect Oslo and other cities for giving this a try— despite the inconvenience to people in your situation, it'll be neat to see more of what else comes of it.

themagician 8y ago

I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile in so many ways. I’d love to see a major metro area in the US do this. San Francisco would actually be a decent candidate for this. Market St + 4 blocks in each direction. Cities existed before without cars and I suspect they will exist again after they leave. Sucks that I had to live in the time period with them. Life is more than just figuring out how quickly and cheaply you can go from one place to another. I feel like a lot of you are missing that.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago
>I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. >We are slaves to the automobile in so many ways. >Sucks that I had to live in the time period with them. Focusing your hatred on inanimate man-made objects does not address the root of the problem (and is probably not healthy). You wouldn't blame crowbars for break-ins (I mean you might, but I hope you don't). The way forward is to develop superior alternatives (in the same way that the car succeeded the horse) not to increase cost. Increasing cost is zero sum at best. Developing better solutions is a net gain. Also, there's only so much pedestrianization you can do. Unless you turn LA (for example) into Manhatten density wise it is always going to be fundamentally pedestrian unfriendly because most of it was designed around cars. Cities that were designed when people walked everywhere and goods were transported in animal drawn carts are going to be more walk-able. Some amount of individual and private (they are different things) transit will always be necessary (assuming quality of life is to stay the same or increase).
- recursive 8y ago
  I think I appreciate what you're saying but I don't think the analogy works exactly. How much crowbar marketing do you see in a day?

yhoiseth 8y ago

While I really like the changes, this article reads like a PR piece from Urban Sharing and/or the city government.

dbdjfjrjvebd 8y ago
The city government is deeply unpopular. Largely because of these changes.

hkon 8y ago

What's interesting is that almost all traffic in eastern Norway goes through the city. Instead of having the highways go around it, they go through it. So while the city center is "car free", there is still alot of traffic and pollution.

jononor 8y ago
The highway from from east to west straight though Oslo center is underground since som years now. If you ever go to the Oslo Opera, the highway is below you somewhere. To call Oslo car free is an oversimplification, but the efforts and results over the last 15 years are tremendous.
- dbdjfjrjvebd 8y ago
  It comes above ground quite close to the city center. There is plenty of pollution from the motorway by Frognerstrand and the massive road junction by Gamlebyen.

mschuetz 8y ago

Vienna also turned one of its biggest shopping streets into a mostly pedestrian zone a few years ago. The results are great, the only issue is that two thirds of it are shared spaces where cars are still allowed to drive, albeit witout priority over pedestrians. Mostly because some parties vehemently fought against pedestrian areas, claiming businesses will lose customers and shops will have to close. Turns out, there are more people than ever and at times it's so crowded that you can't even get through on your bike. Simply because it's a nice space now where people can enjoy shopping, food and going for a walk without constant car noise and smell. It's great. * https://www.wien.gv.at/verkehr/strassen/images/mariahilferstrasse-fuzo-gr.jpg https://www.wien.gv.at/verkehr/strassen/images/mariahilferst... Also, large parts of the inner city district are exclusively pedestrian areas and it makes these areas so much more enjoyable: * https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Wien_01_Stephansplatz_a.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Wien_01_... Compared to when it was still a car street up until 1977: * https://images.derstandard.at/img/2014/02/20/1392699545647-stephansplatz.jpg?s=90cfd14d https://images.derstandard.at/img/2014/02/20/1392699545647-s... * https://images.derstandard.at/img/2013/08/12/1375652399990-Unbenannt-2.jpg?s=c648175e https://images.derstandard.at/img/2013/08/12/1375652399990-U...

close04 8y ago
Keep in mind that some infrastructure has to stay in place to allow for things like supply vehicles or emergency services. The "losing business because you can't park right in front of it" is BS in most big western European city centers where you either go to a paid parking or to a spot on the street 10-15 minutes away from your intended destination sometimes.
- mschuetz 8y ago
  > Keep in mind that some infrastructure has to stay in place to allow for things like supply vehicles or emergency services. There are designated time slots for suply vehicles in the core pedestrian zone, and the pedestrian friendly streets support these without issue. The two outer zones are the shared spaces where cars may drive at any time, which is a mistake in my opinion. Should be the same as the center. Pedestrian only, except for designated time slots for supply vehicles. > The "losing business because you can't park right in front of it" is BS in most big western European city centers where you either go to a paid parking or to a spot on the street 10-15 minutes away from your intended destination sometimes. Yes, that argument appeared often and it never made sense because there never was any available parking space before, except for nearby parking houses that are still available. So pretty much nothing changed, except that some neighbours lost a few parking spaces.

biswaroop 8y ago

More information from 2017 about the fight to remove cars in Oslo: https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jun/13/oslo-ban-cars-backlash-parking https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jun/13/oslo-ban-cars... It's interesting to see the political pushback from conservatives. Still, removing parking seems like a good way to get rid of cars (especially that large fraction of traffic that circles around cities searching for parking).

Kjeldahl 8y ago

What the PR piece doesn't show is that during winter (4-6 months a year), very few ride bicycles around. In winter most people don't stay outside a lot, the weather is harsh (people do ski, but not inside the cities). They have installed play and outside work areas, which are mostly empty during winter, and require maintenance to get them in shape again for the next summer. A lot of shops are moving or closing down. Young people sporting bicycles in summer surely looks good. It doesn't look quite as good with 5-6 shopping bags with groceries for the kids. It's an interesting experiment for sure. Hopefully the single kids have enough money to keep the city thriving, because families are moving out to be able to have a car. Parents in Norway also spend a lot of time caring for their children, which includes driving them around to various activities. Most people who say raising kids in Norway without a car if fine usually haven't had any kids yet.

calcifer 8y ago
> It doesn't look quite as good with 5-6 shopping bags with groceries for the kids. Here in the Netherlands people seem to have no problems doing exactly that on a bike. Is Oslo any significantly different than, say, Amsterdam? Last week we had all sorts of harsh whether (sub-zero temps, heavy rain, snow) during my morning commute, which didn't seem to affect bike traffic one bit. > Parents in Norway also spend a lot of time caring for their children The subtext being if you are against cars you are a bad parent? > which includes driving them around to various activities No, parenting includes taking them to places, not driving.
- danielvf 8y ago
  In winter Oslo averages 10C lower high temperatures and an hour and half less sunlight than Amsterdam. Oslo is also less dense, and spread around both sides of a fjord.
- kolinko 8y ago
  https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=temperatures+in+oslo+vs+amsterdam https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=temperatures+in+oslo+v... Oslo is 5 deg celsius colder in winter than Amsterdam. You sometimes have sub-0, for them it's a norm. There is a big difference between 5C-10C and 0C (a Warsaw-native here, which is closer in terms of temperatures to Oslo)

gt40 8y ago

Maybe I missed something but how do old people get around?

smileysteve 8y ago
Old people are often capable of walking as well. Or taking transit. It's in best interests to encourage the elderly to stay fit and capable. A better question is how do disabled people get around, and how do we prevent people from becoming disabled. Obesity and lack of activity often cause disabilities more than age.
- notatoad 8y ago
  >A better question is how do disabled people get around according to the oslo public transit website, all buses are wheelchair accessible, and all except three tram lines are wheelchair accessible. https://www.visitoslo.com/en/oslo/practical-information/accessibility/ https://www.visitoslo.com/en/oslo/practical-information/acce...
- elektronaut 8y ago
  People unable to use public transit are eligible for subsidized taxi rides.
caspervonb 8y ago
Public transit, trams and busses at every corner more or less.

hartbeatnt 8y ago

This is my dream for downtown LA. Never gonna happen, but a man can dream

nkantar 8y ago
I'm an avid driver who lives in LA (Westside), and this sounds pretty great, honestly. Driving in and through DTLA is a total nightmare, and public transit has a hard time covering enough of the relatively large area. I love being able to take the Expo Line to LA Live, especially for the LA Auto Show (amusingly enough), and would welcome more of that.

avar 8y ago

We need to end socialism for cars, but I think this way of going about it is probably counterproductive. Here in Amsterdam we also have an increase in car-free zones, but one effect of that is just to increase car parking pressure in the neighborhoods of those of us who live adjacent to the center. I think the real solution is to end socialism for cars. This problem will solve itself as soon as the land being used by parking spaces isn't specifically zoned, and thus would need to compete price-wise with using the same amount of land for residential developments or shops. It's also interesting to see how this breaks down as a political issue. E.g. in Amsterdam the generally free market party (VVD) has a notable break from their "their market will take care of it" policy of wanting more government-subsidized car parking, v.s. the leftist parties.

jpmoyn 8y ago
I highly doubt throwing this issue at the free market will result in less car traffic in the city.
- avar 8y ago
  Why not? E.g. now the market price for where I live is to a first approximation something like 2000 EUR/month for an apartment on a single floor in a 4 floor house. Meanwhile I can simply apply for a parking space right outside my place, and only need to pay something like a 250 EUR/yr road tax (depending on vehicle & weight etc.). That's a flat fee for the entirety of Nord-Holland (my "state"), I'd pay nothing for parking other than needing to apply. Assuming a parking space is 6x3m = 18m^2 then 4x of those add up to 72m^2, a typical size for an apartment around here. So if someone parking a car in a 18m^2 parking space had to compete with the market for real estate they'd need to pay 2000 EUR/month for parking their car, because we could otherwise build housing there. That's before you even get to the problem that the fact that you can only build up to 4 floors around here is also an artificial government restraint, so the true market price of a 18m^2 parking spot is way more than 2000 EUR/month in the center of Amsterdam. There's no reason to ban cars. You just need to make them pay a fair price for the land they're using and the problem will take care of itself.
- CalRobert 8y ago

Tade0 8y ago

It focused on Ring 1, the innermost ring road of Oslo’s three motorways, a 1.7km sq area that is home to around 1,000 people of whom 88.1% do not own a car. 1.7km sq is... not a lot really? I measured the distance between the NW and SE ends of the zone and it's 1650m - or about a mile. That's a 25min walk at a leisurely pace.

renholder 8y ago

>...as in other cities that have converted some streets to pedestrian-only areas... These "pedestrian-only" zones certainly aren't unique to Oslo. See Drottninggatan[0] in Stockholm, Grafton[1] in Dublin, Strøget[2] in Köpenhamn (Copenhagen), Kärntner Strasse[3] in Vienna, ad infinitum... I'm nonplussed that this is in any way news-worthy; however, it seems to be an American website, so maybe that's why? [0] - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Drottninggatan_sommaren_2006.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Drottnin... [1] - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Grafton_St%2C_Dublin.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Grafton_... [2] - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/Str%C3%B8get%2C_Copenhagen.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/Str%C3%B... [3] - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/K%C3%A4rtner_Stra%C3%9Fe%2C_Ecke_Walfischgasse.JPG https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/K%C3%A4r...

dbdjfjrjvebd 8y ago
FYI the Danish would spell Copenhagen København.
- renholder 8y ago
  That Ø[0], though... [0] - https://i.imgur.com/CI7Ynx6.gifv https://i.imgur.com/CI7Ynx6.gifv
karmelapple 8y ago
Isn’t part of the interest here that Oslo made a shift, rather than always having had it this way? This is starting to catch hold in cities of all sizes in the USA, too. Usually a couple roads in an already somewhat-popular commercial district will be shut down, either certain days or all the time, and many cities are seeing noticeable impacts on economic activity.
- sampo 8y ago
  > Isn’t part of the interest here that Oslo made a shift, rather than always having had it this way? Copenhagen made the shift in 1962. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Str%C3%B8get https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Str%C3%B8get Interestingly, many local merchants opposed the shift in fear of losing customers. But then soon saw how the pedestrianized street started to boast more shoppers to their stores.

dbdjfjrjvebd 8y ago

Meanwhile in the real world outside of this PR piece most journeys in Oslo are still by car, the air pollution continues to be terrible and the local government is deeply unpopular. Property prices in the center are lower than around the ring road as people with families are forced to move out of the center.

dr_dshiv 8y ago

I moved from Snap Diego to Amsterdam last year and loved giving up cars. We don't own or use cars anymore. I've got three kids. They bike to school, to piano lessons, etc. If it is raining, I give them rain pants. They love the freedom, I love the freedom from schlepping. I commute to work by bike then train then bike and back again. It is beautiful -- and no more traffic. I get exercise built into my day. Sucks about the rain pants. My problem with America: low expectations. No one thinks the vision is possible. Too bad, so sad.

tallanvor 8y ago

This article is complete bullshit. Yes, there are some streets that are mostly free of cars during the day, but the surrounding streets are as busy as ever. Reducing parking spots and increasing bike lanes has not made a noticeable difference in the number of cars on the road, at least from a pedestrian standpoint. I would love to see fewer cars in Olso, especially during days like today when they lowered the speed limit due to the weather causing increased pollution, but even with everything the current government has tried, it isn't making a real difference.

geff82 8y ago

The problem is really not cars, but (if any) the way they have to be built. You could easily fit 4 people in a 400kilo vehicle on 2,5m length and move them safely at speeds of up to 100km/h. But crash regulations are so strict and the buildable types of cars so restricted that we all have to have the heavy, expensive, has driven cars that we now have.

svendbt 8y ago

I live in Oslo. Calling it car-free is a stretch. The city council have done a great deal of improvements - increased frequency of public transport, city bikes, most parking spaces in the inner city are removed (still plenty of private parking garages), paid roadside parking per hour in outer city districts (only residents can park long term) and a $5-$8 toll road around the city. They have also opened up the seaside to the public - you can walk along the sea for from one side of town to the other for hours. This has definitely made for a much more lively city, but it comes with a hidden cost that is not so easily visible - gentrification. The lively city with its hundreds of new bars and restaurants are attracting young, educated people, while the difficulties of owning a car drives away the families that need their car to visit their grandparents, go to IKEA, drive to kindergarten on the other side of town etc. Sure, it's possible to use public transport, but everyone who has has small kids know that you do not want to spend an hour to get home with hungry kids. We (family with two small kids) moved 5 miles out and get the best of both worlds instead. I would never live downtown though.

hmottestad 8y ago
I live in Oslo too. And I work in the center. This article is a HUGE lie. Our city center not car free, not even almost. I don't think Oslo is any more car free than it was 10 years ago. And roads that are made car free don't become traffic free. We still allow busses, trams, lorries and taxis on all the recently made "car-free" roads. Oslo is about as car free as any other decent european city.

fabianhjr 8y ago

Just as a general reference on how to design carfree cities, check out this site: http://carfree.com/ http://carfree.com/

elamje 8y ago

Would it be possible to build public transit, i.e. light rail and regular train, on top of concrete? This could leverage the current state of American infrastructure, and eliminate the need to demolish road, to replace with rail lines.

mort96 8y ago

We did? TIL.

Tiktaalik 8y ago

A much easier way to reduce pedestrian traffic fatalities than inventing a perfect automatic driver.

rconti 8y ago

Sweet; headed to Norway and Sweden this summer, I'll definitely make it a point to visit Oslo then. (Although I was probably going to anyway).

phillywalsh 8y ago

Until living in city centers becomes more affordable, restricting vehicle use only creates problems. Sure restricting vehicles is nice for people who live in the city, but people who can't afford to live in the city depend on personal vehicles to get around. Public transportation doesn't solve it either, it creates a distinct inequality in mobility. Where those in the city can access things whenever they please by walking or bike, those who would depend on public transportation are at the mercy of the transportation system. What the vehicle does is provides those outside the city equal freedom and flexibility as those inside who can walk or ride a bike to their destination.

vages 8y ago

I live in Oslo. This article is exaggerating how far this process has come as much as its pictures exaggerate the amount of sun. Come summer and they'll both be around, but for now there's plenty of cars.

hmottestad 8y ago

"Hahahahahahahahahaha. The city center in Oslo is not even close to being car free." - someone who works in the center and has to cross multiple roads with cars to get to the office

lazyjones 8y ago

This affects a whopping 1.9 out of 454 square kilometers. So don‘t imagine a car-less capital city in Europe. The effect on pollution and noise will be very small, unless you live in or visit the city centre.

charliebrownau 8y ago

If every city in EU+West had Electric Bus's that were ALWAYS on time and effient with a proper ticketing system Along with electric trains for long distance AND proper dedicated push bike lanes with push bike parking it could go a long way to remove the "need" for most people to drive to the city every day

dboreham 8y ago

If you have an infinite amount of money (from Oil), burying your freeways is a great idea. Google maps gets confused in those tunnels though, at least it did for me.

nonbel 8y ago

Prediction: Once the initial excitement/novelty wears off people from the surrounding suburbs/communities will find it more difficult to shop/visit/etc in the city and revenues will drop. As a result, businesses will move to the outskirts so they can make more money, making living in the city more difficult (and thus less attractive). So people will move outwards as well. This will leave the city center either desolated or turned into some sort of historical site or park.

mises 8y ago

I keep running into this assumption that everybody loves somewhere with a pleasant climate. Or at least somewhere cool. In summer, many Southern cities are extremely hot and humid; you couldn't pay most people enough to walk or bike. We like our AC, thank you very much. Maybe better public transit would help, but we don't even like walking the last mile. It's a good plan, but this is the "San Francisco Bubble": assuming what works for you works for everyone else. Another good example is electric scooters. Many people live in situations where, if they walked or biked, even for the last mile, they would have to shower literally every time they moved a mile or more. I also read a very astute comment pointing out that biking is not good for hauling kids, moving groceries, etc. The best solution for kids is probably a stroller, whic means now you have to walk rather than bike. Lastly, speed. Outside of peak traffic, no comparison. I lived in Houston for a while; it could take an hour and a half to drive from one end of the city to the other in usual traffic. Walking or biking, it would probably be something like six and twelve, respectively. Only one city has been truly constrained; NYC. You can't just make everybody move into a little urban core and expect they won't leave. Can't fit that many people. For reference, Oslo has population 600k. Greater Houston Area is estimated to top 10m by 2040.

erkken 8y ago

Fantastic. I also believe we are slaves to the cars, in such a way that we have become blind to the fact how they destroy our societies and people. Most people are so used to the cars that they find it hard we would be happier without them, like my dad who grown up in the 50's with the mindset that every man should have a car. Not to mention all the developing countries with a middle class who see it as a step towards happiness (can't blame them though). The car ia a great invention, and I love to drive them. Our family does not own a car, but rather a few bikes including a cargo bike which we use to do the shopping including Ikea visits. It makes me cry a bit of happiness every time I read about this kind of initiatives.

jannikarndt 8y ago

It is interesting how the “vice mayor of urban development” only talks about getting rid of “private cars”. While train, bus and bike can get your quite far, in large enough cities it will still be a challenge to get to and from many places. Not in the city center, but in the outer areas where people commute to and from. I live in Hamburg (Germany) where we have a subway, S-Bahn (similar) and a quite good bus network. Still, three big car sharing companies are successfully operating: Car2Go (by Daimler), DriveNow (by BMW) and Miles (private startup). They _do_ fill a need. Another experiment will be started in April by the company I work for, MOIA (by VW): They provide ride sharing with a completely electric van (based on the VW Crafter) with 6 seats and permanently employed drivers. The focus is on the commuters who don't have a train-/subway-station nearby. I think there are two lessons here: Just removing all cars will probably not work, we need at least intermediate solutions to slowly move people from owning a private car to shared solutions. And second, many of these mobility on demand/mobility as a service-solutions would be very hard to pull off without mobile phones and uniquitous mobile internet access.

funkythings 8y ago

I do not like Oslos city center. Everything seems so over-engineered and non-organic

siliconunit 8y ago

I would be very careful about outsourcing our basic civil right to move around freely. Very careful, extremely careful. I live in Europe and I fully appreciate cheap public transport and decongested city centers, but I appreciate more a going fully electric revolution, and still keep my EV and drive wherever I please at any time.. I would not trust any government with the power to own my means of transportation fully,ever. We are living in an era of infantilisation of the society, where we close our eyes to any risk or danger and give up our basic freedoms for a fear of responsibility, this could have catastrophic consequences if the 'wrong' type of ruling class gets into power.