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On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality
- buildbuildbuild 8y agoGwern continues to be one of the most authentically curious and transparent researchers around. I highly recommend perusing his essays. Thank you and keep up the excellent output.
- randcraw 8y agoNo conclusion? What's the point of doing research or reporting it if you learned nothing? Is this a koan?
- thatcat 8y agoTo aid other researchers interested in replication by sharing the methodology and references to other existing research, since other people might find different results.
- cypherpunks01 8y agoI believe this is just a transcript of the ongoing experiment, see "status: in progress". Looks like gwern didn't write up the data yet, they have a lot of other experiments going on at the same time most likely..
- lucisferre 8y agoIt is an admittedly biased self-study that while very detailed in explaining the approach and methodology is very flawed from a credibility standpoint though.
- your-nanny 8y agoI suppose you think that knowledge of the condition might have an effect on quality of sleep or the reporting of that quality. That's reasonable, but hardly a reason not to engage in the experiment. No experiment is perfect.
- gwern 8y agoYeah, it's not done. I don't know why you guys are reading it.
- hyperpape 8y agoI don’t know why someone submitted it, but we’re reading it because your “in progress” is ambiguous between “writeup/literature summary in progress” and “experiment in progress”. The first is potentially worth reading, the second is likely not.
- WalterSear 8y agoIt's preregistration. You know gwern isn't hiding unsuccessful self-experiments.
- privong 8y ago> No conclusion? What's the point of doing research or reporting it if you learned nothing? This attitude is (imho) a major problem in research/academia. If you've done research into something you should report it even if the results were unclear, ambiguous, or non-existent. For one it lets people know if this is a fruitful avenue to pursue and/or whether further study is warranted. It can thus reduce unnecessary repetition of effort. Furthermore, making the findings and methodology public enables people to use it as a starting point for other studies, perhaps varying the methodology or asking different questions on related topics. Though I think @cypherpunks01 and @WalterSear are likely right about this particular article/page.
- randcraw 8y agoYes, if your experiment was well designed you will learn something from it and your experiment's design will indeed speak for itself because its conclusion diminishes the search space of what can be known -- on one side of your hypothesis or the other. But to report no conclusion means your experiment has failed: either your method was bad (and your work deserves oblivion), or you reported only your data, or you didn't even report that. It's not clear in this case which of the last two scenarios apply here, but reporting only data without a discussion of results or conclusion adds precious little. Ill-conceived, badly executed, or incomplete experiments add nothing to our knowledge of the world, except more noise. There are already too many unreplicatable experimental conclusions in science today. Let's not short-circuit the experimental method (to wit: missing negative/positive controls, incomplete discussion of results in the context of the DOE, and a judicious conclusion of the in/significance of those contextualized validated results). The scientific method has a tough enough row to hoe these days. Let's not make it harder by inviting weeds through methodological neglect.
- mhuffman 8y agoWell reporting it is important even if you learned nothing. It could be that you personally could learn nothing, or it could be that there is nothing to learn. Distributing findings is core to scientific progress even if your findings are underwhelming.
- altmind 8y agoWe should actually have more published unconclusive experiments. Scientists are pushed too hard to generate break-through results, even when there are none. Thats the reason why we're in current reproducibility crisis.
- urEnlightened 8y agoThe hacker news user came to hacker news to read news. There used to be news said the user. And the user was enlightened.
- EngineerBetter 8y agoI really wish I'd read these comments and realised the experiment isn't finished before scrolling up and down the article for five minutes trying to find the conclusion.
- privong 8y ago> I really wish I'd read these comments and realised the experiment isn't finished before scrolling up and down the article for five minutes trying to find the conclusion. Gwern.net has useful heading information on each page. This particular one says: > modified: 13 Dec 2018; status: in progress; Presumably the status tag will be modified to "draft" or "finished" once conclusions are available. https://www.gwern.net/About#confidence-tags https://www.gwern.net/About#confidence-tags
- jere 8y agoI'm eager to hear the results. I recently got an Awair 2.0 after seeing this talk by DHH: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRqh8oLY7Ik https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRqh8oLY7Ik It quickly confirmed that, without turning my thermostat fan to "ON", my bedroom CO2 jumps from about 1000 ppm to 2000 ppm within a couple hours of us going to sleep. In the fall, my wife and I started waking up in the middle of the night feeling like we couldn't breathe. What I figured out is that the neither the heat nor cooling was running because the weather was pretty much perfect. We have to keep the door closed because our cat will swat at us in the middle of the night otherwise. I figured there would naturally be enough of a draft to not make this a concern and it's a fairly large connected master bedroom/bathroom with high ceilings to hold a lot of air, but I guess that isn't enough. So that's when I learned about the "fan" function on my thermostat.... never had a need for it in my life. Now I just need to figure out how to get lower than 1000 ppm, which is already a hit against cognitive function. Our house has no screens currently and even if we install some, it's not like I want to have windows open in the middle of winter. I've heard house plants don't have a huge effect, but I'm willing to try.
- bizzleDawg 8y agoI've worked on environmental sensing iot projects and have seen the cost of co2 sensors. Almost all the cheap ones are VOC sensors which infer a co2 level by assuming the VOC output is from humans (rather than paint for example). Given the cost of the device I would be amazed if it wasn't a VOC based sensor. The cheapest CO2 sensors I've seen are well over $250, even in bulk. CO2 is quite innert, so it requires very precise and accurate components
- dschuler 8y agoI got an NDIR CO2 sensor on AliExpress for $20. Do you think one of those would just have low accuracy or be uncalibrated?
- bizzleDawg 8y agoI suspect both! I should compare a $250 one with the $20 one
- pstuart 8y agoThat would be a worthy HN post.
- illegalsmile 8y agoIs that something HN is interested in? I do work and research with remote environmental monitoring stations and am always comparing sensors. Currently doing a precipitation gauge intercomparison study.
- pstuart 8y agoI can only speak for myself and what I've seen discussed here over the years -- yes, it would be interesting. Why is better stuff is more expensive, how to make the cheap stuff work closer to the better stuff, and interesting findings from actually using them. Lessons learned are always interesting...
- baxtr 8y agoRelated side question: does anyone know when and if we would see CO2 levels in the atmosphere of around 2000-3000 ppm because of all the fossil fuels we burn (which I understand is a level that is not optimal for us)? I’m asking for a friend...
- Shank 8y agoNot any time soon, as far as I'm aware. According to [0] a fancy article from Business Insider, the rate of increase is 2ppm/yr, on average. But many studies suggest cognitive effects of CO2 levels as low as 1,000ppm. See: https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp.1510037 https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp.1510037 [0]: https://www.businessinsider.com/carbon-dioxide-record-human-health-effects-2018-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/carbon-dioxide-record-human-...
- baxtr 8y agoThanks! So 2ppm/year gives us another 300 yrs to top 1000 ppm. I guess we’re safe for now! Rock on
- Retric 8y agoYour local air has higher CO2 than the environment even today it can reach 1000 ppm with poor ventilation. So, it's likely to be an increasing issue long before we hit 1000 ppm outside.
- graeme 8y agoIndoor air is 1000+ in most places that don't actively ventilate. The higher outside air is, the less effective ventilation will be.
- dTal 8y agoIt won't always be 2ppm/year. The rate increases yearly. We can expect 1000ppm somewhere around 2100, perhaps a bit after. Of course 1000ppm has far nastier effects than just those on human cognition.
- manmal 8y agoFWIW, I have almost no dream recall, and am not as rested, when the window is sealed shut. We are four humans and two cats (usually) in a small-ish bedroom, creating a lot of co2. There is built-in ventilation in each room, but performance starts declining 2 weeks after every filter change (which cost €20). So I swap the filter only once every 1-2 months, and instead open the window ever so slightly (moving the lever just a bit towards open position, weakening the seal). Voila, perfect dream recall and much better rested the day after.
- sinuhe69 8y agoI live in a tropical country and I always prefer to sleep with open Windows. The only problem is the noise. I believe noise affects the sleep quality as much as well. Earplugs might be a solution but I don’t know any good brand which are comfortable enough for long time carrying.
- manmal 8y agoIt seems there will soon be a mass market solution: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/business/sick-of-the-noise-this-startup-has-developed-a-quiet-bubble-1.6336531 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/business/sick-of-the-noi...
- skuhl 8y agoFire safety experts recommend that bedroom doors be closed at night: https://closeyourdoor.org/ https://closeyourdoor.org/
- russellbeattie 8y agoMaybe they should change it to closeyourdoors-crackyourwindow.org instead...
- wolco 8y agoPolice recommand you close your windows to prevent breakins.
- darkpuma 8y agoIf you believe that is a serious concern in your area, get bars for your windows. There is no shame in it, I've lived in numerous buildings that had barred windows. However I suspect that most people don't sleep on the ground floor (either in a multi-level house, or in an apartment building) so for them this should be less of a concern.
- jsight 8y agoBut the HOA won't let you and you'll have a hard time selling it then, because you have indicated that the house is in a dangerous area.
- darkpuma 8y agoWell, is your area a dangerous area? None of the homes in high crime neighborhoods I've lived in have had HOAs. But if you're actually contending with both at the same time, there are window bars that are placed inside the window, not outside.put the blinds between the window and the bars, then crack the window open and get some airflow. Or hell, install a fan in your attic, the way people used to before AC was ubiquitous. Bedroom ventilation is not an unsolvable problem. If you really want a solution, you can find one. If you want an excuse to have no solution, I'm sure you can find endless excuses too.
- Someone 8y ago”But if one room can mix with and increase the Netatmo’s room all the way up to 1934PPM, what must the original concentration have been like?” Why not move the weather station to the bedroom for a couple of nights? (And make sure the sensor is at nose/mouth height, preferably close to it. CO2 is heavier than air, so concentrations may be higher closer to the floor in a closed room with little movement) I would also do a back-of-the-envelope computation along the lines of https://www.globe.gov/explore-science/scientists-blog/archived-posts/sciblog/2008/08/11/release-of-carbon-dioxide-by-individual-humans/comment-page-1/index.html https://www.globe.gov/explore-science/scientists-blog/archiv... or https://ac.els-cdn.com/S1877705813007558/1-s2.0-S1877705813007558-main.pdf?_tid=c67910cb-94a1-4250-a050-984934b01197&acdnat=1548097951_5b5b22f418db1b47241559338fe2bb24 https://ac.els-cdn.com/S1877705813007558/1-s2.0-S18777058130..., to verify the numbers the weather station produces. And the lesson of all this seems to be: get a large bedroom and leave the door open (both easier for the well-off, so get rich parents!)
- larrik 8y ago"Why not move the weather station to the bedroom for a couple of nights?" which he did, not too far further into the article?
- Someone 8y agoOops. I thought I skimmed the text well enough to detect that, but apparently was looking too much for the graph “CO2 concentration over time during the night” that to me, seemed obvious as the thing that had to be there.
- martinpw 8y ago> CO2 is heavier than air, so concentrations may be higher closer to the floor in a closed room with little movement How significant is the gradient? Would it make a noticeable exposure difference to sleep in a high bed versus a mattress on the floor?
- DocG 8y agoI was lucky to get my hands on 5 proper co2 sensors from university, while I was teaching and working. So plenty of test places. What I found: -Just a couple of hours in a office, without ventilation spikes the co2 enough to make everyone dizzy and tired by the end of the day. Keeping eye on the meter and ventilating properly, increased everyones productivity and people werent so tired by the end of the day. - Classrooms, with 20-30 people are as bad. co2 rises really fast and makes people dizzy. Most often ventilation is too low, as a cost saving measure. -Closing bedroom door, sleeping alone made bedroom as bad by the morning than classroom or office. -Main culprit seems to be our perfection with insulating and making rooms airtight. I do live in a cold climate, so having open vents or windows is not common half the year. It seems it has not been such a big issue before plastic windows or in older houses. I think it is getting worse with every new building.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- kickout 8y agoCurious if you have a link to what sensors you had? Think this is cool and i've been on/off looking for co2/o2 sensors greater than recreational precision
- leonroy 8y agoCan’t speak for OP but I’ve been using the IQAir Air Visual Pro and can support everything they’ve said. I try to keep CO2 around 400-500 in my office and home but it spikes surprisingly fast with even one person breathing in a medium sized room. It can integrate with HomeBridge and has a good API and unlike a lot of IOT stuff it’s well supported and stable.
- forthispurpose 8y agodo you know how accurate it is?
- 8y ago
- tux1968 8y agoWent looking for devices for the bedroom, but ran into an article about plants that might help in that setting: https://thewgnews.com/planting-hope-air-cleaning-house-plants/ https://thewgnews.com/planting-hope-air-cleaning-house-plant...
- graeme 8y agoThose scrub the air of pollutants. No way they lower co2 sufficiently though. Plants reduce co2 by growing. Which they do....slowly. By contrast a human will spike the air in a room quickly by breathing.
- tux1968 8y agoThat's interesting, I was just linking the article because it was talking specifically about co2 and NASA recommendations. In fairness, it didn't give any hard numbers on what to expect.
- graeme 8y agoI think the author of the piece just made a poor inference. Air cleaning isn't necessarily the same as lowering co2. That said, seems there are some succulents that do most of their co2 intake at night. Those would work best for co2. But you would need....at least 30-40 of them. Opening a window, by contrast, works extremely well, and quickly. However, this requires non-polluted outside air. Else you're exchanging lower co2 for pollutants. https://gerrieswart.com/2018/09/06/using-plants-to-improve-your-sleep/ https://gerrieswart.com/2018/09/06/using-plants-to-improve-y...
- diminoten 8y agoSelf experiments like these are a great re-enforcement of how insanely hard it is to do accurate, reproducible science. This submission tells us absolutely nothing due to the lack of rigor applied. SO many potential confounding variables, there is zero value in what is being done here.
- tgb 8y agoHere's a Nature opinion piece arguing in favor of N=1 studies: https://www.nature.com/news/personalized-medicine-time-for-one-person-trials-1.17411 https://www.nature.com/news/personalized-medicine-time-for-o... And another more recent one https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-07535-2 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-07535-2
- diminoten 8y agoThe n=1 isn't the problem, it's the environment. "Some guy's room" is hardly a lab, and then, when there is so much that can go wrong, such as in this study, n=1 is terrible. This is terrible pseudoscience and not worth anyone's time.
- John_KZ 8y agoI'm impressed by how low the score of your comment is. I know computer scientists aren't "real" scientists but I thought the lack of rigor in this one was apparent and it was only upvoted only as a conversation starter. I guess I was wrong.
- colechristensen 8y agoThere wasn't a "lack of rigor" He just never finished. He collected data and then didn't follow up with graphs and conclusions and such. There's nothing wrong with a blog post that tells you about 2/3 of a N=1 study on yourself, it's interesting. It doesn't owe you completion, it just is not complete.
- your-nanny 8y ago
- z3t4 8y agoI measured CO2 levels in my bedroom and it where highest just before sleep (around 1000ppm), then wen't down during sleep. The article got some very high readings. Either they're doing "exercise" or the room has bad ventilation.
- greenleaf2 8y agoThere's one big problem with this entire idea of co2 levels affecting sleep quality or humans in general: Even though there are cognitive effects of CO2, most often the CO2 levels in indoor rooms are simply a sign of low oxygen levels. In fact, there should be an inverse relationship between CO2 and oxygen in rooms. So an experiments would need to take this into account and supply pure oxygen to make up for the oxygen that has been used up.
- graeme 8y agoGood observation. That said, co2 and o2 should move pretty much in tandem if the source of high co2 is human breathing + limited ventilation, right? This could potentially account for why no ill effects of high co2 were found in submarines. Presumably o2 supply there is well maintained. Do household air quality standards include o2 levels?
- wnoise 8y agoThey do move in tandem on a molar basis, but because there is so much more O2 in the air, even very high concentrations of CO2 have barely changed the concentration of O2.
- graeme 8y agoRight, so then in a single night in a poorly ventilated room, a human would not breathe up enough of the O2 to make any difference in their functioning? (Meaning we could rule it out as an explanation for the effects, if the effects do exist)
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- greenleaf2 8y agoThey probably do not move in direct tandem, because most of the CO2 stays in the body, which means a higher amount of oxygen is taken out of the air, then CO2 being reintroduced to it. Every time you breathe in, you not only breath in O2, but also CO2, thus lowering the amount of CO2 in the room relatively to the amount of oxygen. In other words, 1000 ppm CO2 in the air do not mean 1000 ppm O2 less, but significantly more parts of oxygen less.
- tvladeck 8y agoi can't wait for the final results of this analysis. for a long time i've wondered why i was so sleepy. i often work out of my apartment (a new building), and NYC being NYC, my windows and doors are often closed to allow for air conditioning. i bought an awair sensor, and when i plugged it in, i was getting readings of 1000-1500ppm on CO2. immediately started ventilating the apartment, outside weather be damned. impossible to tell, but i feel more awake and healthier in general now. i also make it a point to get outside more and work more from my office (which is very big and airy and lightly attended).
- toufiqbarhamov 8y agoI just want to say that while suggestive, correlation and causation yadda yadda. If you find that you’re tired all of the time, prone to falling asleep whenever you sit down somewhere, and especially if you snore or often wake up with a headache...Get A Sleep Study! You may have sleep apnea, which is quite common and easy to treat. These days you can get a take-home kit under most insurance, and if you need the full clinical study they’ll go from there. It’s all totally painless, and the change proper treatment makes if you need it can’t be overstated. Sleep apnea could also conceivably make you more sensitive to nocturnal hypercapnia.
- nkingsy 8y agoThis is especially pronounced at high altitude, and when running a furnace in the winter. I keep large black tents (4x4 ft or 2x4) in every bedroom in the house, and grow kale, spinach, chard, peas, tomatoes, etc inside (with handmade COB LED lights). I don't have any sensors to get a real idea of the difference in CO2 it makes, but it allows us to run the furnace less at night (heat from the lights), and makes a noticeable difference in humidity ( very dry air here ). Also, we get about 1-2 family meals / week of food at full capacity ( total 4x8 grow space and 800 watts of light running only at night ). Not economical and takes a lot of maintenance, but it's a fun hobby from which we all feel the benefits.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago> but it allows us to run the furnace less at night (heat from the lights) Dear God, what's your power bill? There's no way a LED lights heat is as efficient as just using the furnace. edit: I meant cheap, not efficient.
- cl0ckt0wer 8y agoAssuming the furnace is electric too, they should both be the same efficiency, since 100% of the power is being eventually turned into heat, unless the light from the LEDs are going outside.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y agoI never considered an electric furnace - I come from a land of ice and snow and the only real option is natural gas.
- freetime2 8y agoI live in a land of ice and snow and we rely entirely on mini-split heat pumps in the winter [1]. Admittedly they do lose efficiency quickly when temps drop well below freezing, but they work well enough here. I have also seen some pretty cool looking "passive" houses that, due to excellent insulation, are able to heat the entire house with a 3kW furnace [2]. And these are in very cold locations (e.g. Alberta, Canada). Electric heating is the future! [1] https://learn.compactappliance.com/mini-split-heat-pumps/ https://learn.compactappliance.com/mini-split-heat-pumps/ [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlA4_lesrU4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlA4_lesrU4
- zmix 8y agoSo, TRUE or FALSE?
- simulate 8y agoScott Alexander (slatestarcodex) provided a meta-study and also described how reducing CO2 in his cottage reduced headaches, fatigue, and poor sleep: https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/08/23/carbon-dioxide-an-open-door-policy/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/08/23/carbon-dioxide-an-open... After reading this, I got a Netatmo CO2 monitor like Scott and Gwern. I found that CO2 peaked in my bedroom at around 1500 PPM at 6 AM with the door closed and that I could keep it under 500 PPM with the door open or a window open. Scott Alexander also suggests getting around 10 succulents, if you don't want to open a door or a window. Edit: Scott Alexander also published these survey results from other people who experimented with reducing CO2 in their homes: https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/10/04/nighttime-ventilation-survey-results/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/10/04/nighttime-ventilation-...
- wishinghand 8y agoHow big should these 10 succulents be?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- yoodenvranx 8y agoIs it just coincidence that Tom Scott uploaded a video about CO2 and its influences at almost the exact time the gwerns link was submitted? https://youtu.be/1Nh_vxpycEA https://youtu.be/1Nh_vxpycEA
- philippnagel 8y agoWasn't there a recent discussion on HN on the Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon?
- tinus_hn 8y agoIt appears it has become pretty fashionable to mention it, it’s probably the next ‘skeuomorphic’.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- alvern 8y agoFor the hackers out there, you can record CO2 with a K33 sensor. The [0] Livpi uses this chip. EDIT: it appears the Livpi uses a K30 chip. The K33 [1] is the version sold on industrial sites. [0] http://www.livpi.com/ http://www.livpi.com/ [1] https://www.co2meter.com/products/k-33-icb-co2-sensor https://www.co2meter.com/products/k-33-icb-co2-sensor
- freetime2 8y agoIn Japan, the building code requires every room to have an air vent [1]. Initially I was skeptical of them and was looking to close them to save on heating costs in the winter. But after doing a little research, I decided they are probably best left open to reduce condensation and mold growth. Now I'm curious how effective they are at keeping down CO2 levels at night. I would like to try this experiment in my house. [1] https://resources.realestate.co.jp/living/japanese-apartment-air-vents-use/ https://resources.realestate.co.jp/living/japanese-apartment...
- rikkus 8y agoThere are regulations[1] in the UK too. We've had new UPVC windows installed over the past few years and they've all got hidden 'trickle' vents. [1] https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ventilation-approved-document-f https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ventilation-appro...
- marijnz 8y agoPrevious company I worked for had dashboards and Slack integration for the CO2 levels on all floors. There's a blogpost on how it was done (Raspberry PI's, CO2 sensors and open-source python script): https://blog.wooga.com/woogas-office-weather-wow-67e24a5338 https://blog.wooga.com/woogas-office-weather-wow-67e24a5338
- hawski 8y agoWith every similar news I feel dumb. Because my parents and my grandparents used to say same things. It was easy to dismiss all the advice as grumbling, but I really should refresh air before sleeping, humidify air in heating season, eat more vegetables... etc. etc.
- throw564d 8y agoDrinking cold drinks in winter makes you cough.
- Isn0gud 8y agoInteresting, do you have an explanation for this?
- crazygringo 8y agoNot the parent, but cold temperatures in the face/throat increase mucus production to protect your membranes, and excess mucus in the respiratory system will need be coughed up. Of course it varies greatly depending on the person, temperature, state of immune system, humidity, etc. But it's just the opposite of hot tea helping you cough less.
- gjs278 8y agowell it would have helped if they explained it or knew why. they just “felt” those things. if I knew it’s because co2 was building up and it can make you dizzy, i’d open the window
- newsgremlin 8y agoThe problem is that parental figures previously based such general information on gut feelings, personal anecdotes and old wives tales. A lot of what parents say can be correct, but when there is a lack of information to fill the gaps to a childs understandable inquisitiveness it's filled with ignorance or scorn by the parents that are going through the motions who have no answer. It's an interesting dynamic with the resources available for information to the general public that it will be the children that can quash misconceptions perpetuated by parents. We all, including future generations, will become better parents for it.
- amelius 8y agoAny implications at a bigger scale, i.e. considering rising global CO2 values?
- maxxxxx 8y agoNo, the concentrations are totally different.
- fromthestart 8y agoThis has all the markings of a pseudoscientific fad. 1. Abundance of flimsy anecdotal evidence 2. Mostly subjective measures of outcome (I feel smarter and refreshed!) 3. Seemingly plausible, but totally unverified scientific reasoning I'm not holding my breath yet.
- gamma-male 8y agoIn my bedroom I can feel the morning dew in my lungs. I've been wondering if it is bad. Could be lead as well, it's an old house, but I don't think I would be able to feel it.
- lmilcin 8y agoCouple of months ago I changed jobs and have moved to a new city with my family. Due to unusual working hours I keep separate bed in my tiny office (10 square meters or roughly 100 square feet). As soon as I have moved I have started having trouble with my work which I initially assumed was due to me being overworked and tired with the entire hoopla around the change. Only after about 3 months I have finally figured out to keep the room door open at night to allow the air to circulate. It immediately helped. My office in my previous flat was not tight and the air always flowed even when the doors were closed. The new one is completely sealed when the doors are closed.
- aresant 8y agoIn modern houses the solution to this is a “whole house air exchanger” which acts to cycle on low power the airflow in/out of house. You can also get these for single rooms and equipped with a heat recovery component.
- Tharkun 8y agoI was under the impression that heat recovery ventilators weren't worth their cost. They're a lot more expensive to buy, and a hell of a lot more expensive to install (complicated ducting etc). Has that changed in recent years?
- swixmix 8y agoIt doesn't appear that CO2 was the only variable in this experiment. Usually when people cause CO2 level to rise they also cause the O2 level to fall. Also, increasing oxygen will wake you up.
- fourier_mode 8y agoSlightly related[0]: Explains the effect of CO2 concentration on cognition. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nh_vxpycEA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nh_vxpycEA
- harshulpandav 8y agoI live in a tiny apartment that probably only circulates the air within the apartment itself. The system sucks air from one spot and throws it out from the vents at all places. To force fresh air to come inside I keep the door of my room open and open the window by 3 inches. Turn on the HVAC. Thus all the air from my room is sucked and because of the pressure difference fresh air gushes in. This works for me pretty well.
- co2_throwaway 8y agoThis might be completely unrelated, but let's give it a shot: I've noticed that sometimes after spending extended periods of time (in the magnitude of hours) in very close proximity with a significant other (e.g. cuddling, kissing, etc.), I feel groggy, dizzy, and have brain fog/difficulty focusing. Could this be related to CO2 levels? I've been feeling it today and was wondering if it is hormone related, but CO2 could be an interesting explanation as well - I have noticed my breathing tends to slow down during these times as well. I've never heard anyone else describe this so if you have any similar experiences, please share so I don't feel so alone with this.
- jdpigeon 8y agoThere's a lot going on physiologically when you're getting intimate (e.g. oxytocin, testosterone), so it's hard to tell. However, I've noticed the same thing, and I'll also add a loss of appetite.
- co2_throwaway 8y agoGlad someone can relate, but sorry you have to deal with it as well. What are your thoughts on seeing an endocrinologist about this? In addition to oxytocin, testosterone, etc., I was also wondering if it might be related to prolactin levels. I also just read some people talk about similar symptoms here but no clear answers: https://patient.info/forums/discuss/partner-becomes-ill-after-kissing-intimacy-please-help-73181 https://patient.info/forums/discuss/partner-becomes-ill-afte...
- aicioara 8y agoI had that happening. For me it was an allergic reaction which slightly blocked my sinuses and reduced the air intake. The allergy was previously undetected because I do/did not use the same cosmetic products that my partner uses. A antihistamine nasal spray may help, but check with an ENT.
- co2_throwaway 8y agoInteresting, so does that fall under the category of "mild hypoxia" or something?
- dzhiurgis 8y agoI really wish smartphones would start monitoring CO2 (together with CO, UVA, UVB, humidity and probably some other interesting metrics). Some of these sensors cost nearly nothing at scale, but would save thousands if not millions of lives.
- erikb 8y agoHave I missed it or are there no results in the article? First he has a long intro, which is nice. Then he goes way over board explaining his data and code. Then he talks about his mattress. If you've seen results can you point them out to me? Thanks.
- throwwayy136 8y agoI am already baffled that a major Dutch periodical (Elsevier magazine) fails at typesetting the "2" in "CO2" in subscript, but gwern? (Et tu, gwern?)
- efficax 8y agoI read somewhere that in Germany it is (or was) traditional to "luften" the rooms of a house every day by opening the windows for a while to let fresh air in (even in the winter). After hearing about this I started doing it myself, and I feel like it's improved the experience of working from home. Even when the subzero temps descend on my city in the next few days, I'll open a few windows for a while just to make sure the air stays fresh.
- nwah1 8y agoCO2 negatively affects cognitive performance on tests https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp.1510037 https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp.1510037
- maxk42 8y agoJust wanted to write to say after reading this article I went out and bought a CO2 meter. Levels in my house were high enough to effect drowsiness and trouble concentrating. (> 1100ppm, even with the window cracked) Subsequently decided to leave my sliding glass door open all day, allowing levels to drop to around 550ppm. Haven't felt this alert and active in ages. What the hell have I been doing to myself?
- elektor 8y agoWhat CO2 meter did you buy?
- norswap 8y agoIt's a cool experiment, but why post this — there aren't any conclusions yet!
- Delete-Prod-Log 8y agoThis just opened my mind. Remarkable analysis and a true data scientist.