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BitPatron – A Bitcoin Censorship-Free Patreon Alternative

294 points by crazyamir 8y ago

throwawaymath 8y ago
Is censorship a problem with Patreon?
- judgardner 8y ago
  Apparently yes. Visa/MasterCard pressure Patreon to drop users with views they don’t approve of. Most recently alt-right users. I think it’s important to protect free speech, especially the kind I don’t agree with.
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    Most recently alt-right users. Most prominently, recently, a center-left commentator whose opinions certain executives don't like.
    - kevinh 8y ago
      The one I'm aware of is Sargon of Akkad, who I'd certainly consider to be alt-right. Who are you referring to?
      - kgraves 8y ago
        Hmmm, I have never heard of that guy, are alt-right people just pure white supremacist nazis or just people on the right wing of politics? Seems to me that Sargon person is one of those but can't tell.
        stcredzero 8y ago
        Sargon long self-identified as a liberal. For a long time, he ended up right where the UK Green party was on the Political Compass test, and also matched me pretty spot on. (I'm a child of immigrants, non-white, and a lifelong liberal.) He's moved a bit to the right, but could be rightly called a "centrist." There's a dishonest tactic of tarring at play here.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
        pcbro141 8y ago
        Is it really 'dishonest tarring' to point out how silly it is to point out how he criticizes the Alt-Right and White Nationalists, when the method he uses to criticize them is to tell them they act like n * * * ers?
        dx87 8y ago
        IIRC, he used that word specifically because he knew they were racists, so he deliberatley used a slur he knew they'd hate. It'd be like him referring to communists as capitalist pigs. He may not have a problem with capitalism, but he's using an anti-capitalist insult to drive home the point that they are acting no better than the people they hate.
        stcredzero 8y ago
        Is it really 'dishonest tarring' to point out how silly it is to point out how he criticizes the Alt-Right and White Nationalists, when the method he uses to criticize them is to tell them they act like n... ers? No. What's dishonest is to call people like Sargon of Akkad, Tim Pool, Sam Harris, Dave Rubin, or Steven Pinker "Alt Right" in an attempt to silence them purely by association. All of those people oppose the alt right! Really, no one should be getting away with those cheesy 80's Moral Majority tactics. If just using the n-word makes one alt right, then my creole ex-girlfriend's transvestite creole musician brother is "Alt Right" -- NOT!
        Apocryphon 8y ago
        The more obviously objectionable thing with Sargon, from Patreon’s POV, is probably that he’s a Gamergater, if we’re talking about controversies of the past five years.
      - asabjorn 8y ago
        He was fighting against alt righters that had targeted him for months in the clip he got banned for where he called them out on their bigoted opinions and poor behavior, and is a known target of theirs. To say he is alt right is unreasonable and incorrect, although for some he is certainly divisive.
        stcredzero 8y ago
        One of the odd things about the clip he got banned for, was that the most likely way it could have come to the attention of Patreon, was for the Alt-Right to have submitted it. Basically, it looks like Patreon was doing the bidding of the Alt-Right by doing what's politically convenient for the far left. To say he is alt right is unreasonable and incorrect, although for some he is certainly divisive. That's basically the same kind of tactics religious fundamentalists tried to pull in shaming homosexuals way back when. That sort of social manipulation through dishonest labeling, that spirit of squashing dissent -- it's the same kind of tribalist petty evil practiced by bigots back in the day. People who know better need to stand up and call it out.
        asabjorn 8y ago
        You seem correct in the observations that the far right and left believe in the same worldview with opposite arrows, seeking to oppress any dissent to this worldview through fake outrage. Both share the worldview that the superior whites need to either help or rule, depending on which fringe we are talking with. Both unfounded beliefs as there are bigger variance within than between identity politics groups.
        sparkie 8y ago
        This is Horseshoe Theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory). Commentators from both sides will vehemently defend their position and claim it to be nothing like the other side. From the reasonable person's perspective (more towards centre), both extremes are authoritarian, and their similarities are more striking than their differences.
      - stcredzero 8y ago
        Sargon of Akkad is highly critical of the Alt-Right. He describes himself as a "classical British liberal." However, since he also criticizes the far left, the far left tars him as Alt-Right, which I find to be an authoritarian and highly dishonest tactic. Basically, it's a tactic to get everyone to shut-up and put-up through intimidation, brooking no dissent from their own side. That's not how liberals should be engaging and searching for the truth. That's basically how George W. Bush was acting when he was selling the WMD narrative.
        dragonwriter 8y ago
        > He describes himself as a "classical British liberal” “Classical liberal”, with or without “British”, is a standard self-identification for modern conservatives, especially right-libertarians; a very wide portion of the political spectrum—reaching pretty far both left and right and everywhere in between—in the modern West, especially the Anglo-American subset, has or claims roots in 18th century British liberal thought. > However, since he also criticizes the far left, the far left tars him as Alt-Right, Lots of people criticize the far left without being labelled Alt-Right; OTOH, he does seem to be from a space slightly more libertarian though equally far right and equally, or nearly so, xenophobic on most social axes to the Alt-Right. So there is a real, if perhaps exquisitely fine, distinction there.
        stcredzero 8y ago
        That's more of that dishonest narrative/tarring. The man's not even white, IIRC. He's part middle eastern in descent. "Xenophobic" is the label used by the far left to tar anyone who believes in stricter border policies. He's also highly critical of all groups he perceives as using Identity Politics, which in present day includes both the far left and far right of the political spectrum. Both the far left and the far right target him, the far left doing it by using the "Alt-Right" mislabeling, with the far right going along with it for trolling purposes. So there is a real, if perhaps exquisitely fine, distinction there. In 2018, this is called an "exquisitely fine, distinction" where in years past, he would just have been called center-left.
      - vowelless 8y ago
        Alt right is neo nazis and white nationalists. Good to know this guy is alt right. Need to stay away from them! It’s so strange that banning of Neo nazis (as you describe him) is controversial!
        stcredzero 8y ago
        The guy spends considerable time and effort criticizing and debating the Alt Right, neo nazis, and white nationalists. It’s so strange that banning of Neo nazis (as you describe him) is controversial! It's controversial, because many people are being labeled thusly as a dishonest authoritarian intimidation tactic. Tim Pool, who's non-white, a lifelong liberal, and left leaning, is another alternative journalist who is similarly -- and dishonestly, inaccurately -- tarred. It's controversial, because there are those of us in the liberal camp seeing such dishonest and authoritarian tactics used to silence dissent from within the left. That's not how democratic institutions and organizations who supposedly care about truth are supposed to act.
        vowelless 8y ago
        I am sure kevinh is a good person and won’t just randomly call someone a Neo nazi, white nationalist, alt right, etc.
        stcredzero 8y ago
        Many good people get fooled by programs to push a narrative.
        pcbro141 8y ago
        > The guy spends considerable time and effort criticizing and debating the Alt Right, neo nazis, and white nationalists. He criticizes the Alt-Right and White Nationalists in part by calling them n * * * ers, just so it's clear for readers.
        oh_sigh 8y ago
        Is that wrong? Would it be like a gay guy calling a homophobe a fag?
      - companyhen 8y ago
        Didn't Jordan Peterson also get banned?
        stcredzero 8y ago
        No. He's voluntarily leaving Patreon, however.
      - syshum 8y ago
        Wow... Sargon is alt-right now. I guess the meme about everyone not being on the extreme authoritarian left being "alt-right" is actually true. Sargon is Center Libertarian, pretty far from the alt-right which are more accurately labeled Authoritarian Right
    - Steko 8y ago
      > a center-left commentator Baloney. He's claims to not be alt right despite having identical views on most topics. It's about as convincing as when the KKK says they aren't racist, they just love white people.
      - dragonwriter 8y ago
        > He's claims to not be alt right despite having identical views on most topics He does cite specific differences from the Alt-Right, e.g., he views as excessively collectivist; he hates most of the things they hate, which makes the difference largely academic to a lot of people outside of the broader far right.
  - cm2187 8y ago
    I don’t care that much about Patreon censoring the right, because there are many alternatives to take payments online. There are none however to visa/mastercard. It’s a cartel, where the choice is not even made by a customer (it is made by your bank who won’t even ask you), and there is no real alternative. I am pro-free markets but when that happens, I am actually in favor of regulations hitting these two hard, rather than going after google.
    - r3bl 8y ago
      > I don’t care that much about Patreon censoring the right, because there are many alternatives to take payments online. There are none however to visa/mastercard. This is where you're wrong. If a payment processor doesn't like someone, they'll just threaten a platform after platform wherever you pop up. Block whoever we don't like or you won't be able to process payments. Case in point: Sargon of Akkad. I'm not going to take any stand in this controversy because I don't know the backstory, however as soon as he switched from Patreon to SubscribeStar, PayPal went after SubscribeStar. I'm assuming they've said no when asked to block Sargon, because you can no longer cash out via PayPal. It wasn't Patreon that was after him, it was PayPal.
      - cm2187 8y ago
        Yeah but paypal is just an intermediary. You can use Stripe or pretty much any bank. If visa/mastercard tells you they will block payments to that website because they don't like your ideas, that's the end of it.
- drenvuk 8y ago
  Quite a problem, yes. They're trying to stay on the nice side of credit card and other financial companies so porn, speech that takes on controversial/flame/political/religious topics, being a dick or unsavory person, doing illegal things in $COUNTRY will get you banned from the platform. It's understandable from a staying in business point of view but it can feel hypocritical, heavy handed and disingenuous when you hear the CEO speaking about it and explaining the company's actions to users. He won't own up to what they're doing, which would allow people at least be able to empathize with him. I don't use the platform and I don't support anyone on Patreon. Unless I've made a mistake explaining the situation I'd prefer not to expand this thread. It's serious flamebait.
  - throwawaymath 8y ago
    Interesting. That's not directly relevant to me but I was considering Patreon for a project, so this is at least good to know. Thanks for the explanation.
    - dogma1138 8y ago
      It is because there might be a pretty big overlap of patrons between you and someone who will get banned which like now would result in people stopping donating through Patreon because a creator they donated to was deplatofrmed which affects multiple channels.
- porpoisely 8y ago
  It is a big problem with Patreon as it is with almost all major tech platforms - especially those who have dominant positions without any current viable competition. I can understand shutting down accounts involved in criminal activity but blocking transactions because you disagree with their political views or speech is ridiculous. The hubris of the tech leaders are a cause for concern. Who voted for them to be our puritanical leaders and tyrants? Do we really want Tim Cook, Zuckerburg, Page/Brin, Conte, etc to be our moral censors? Do we really want them to be the American Politburo to rule over us? I certainly don't. What's even more incredible is that the co-founder of Patreon is a musician by trade. You would think he, of all people, would be against censorship.
  - quadrangle 8y ago
    A musician, of all people, against censorship? I don't follow. Leaving aside the false-dichotomy implication about all-or-nothing / black-or-white / for-censorship-or-against-it, there's nothing about being a musician that would particularly predict someone's political views.
    - porpoisely 8y ago
      Other than the fact that musicians and music have been victims of censorship? Other than the fact that musicians had to overcome attempts to censor music? Whether it is ragtime or rock 'n roll or gangsta rap or even classical like mahler. You would think a profession that depends on free speech protection would be more sympathetic to free speech. Also, in many instances, you can predict someone's political views with some accuracy just by their profession.
      - XorNot 8y ago
        Other then the fact that musicians have been bullied and harassed for almost every facet of their identity in some form by right-wing movements for most of the 20th century? Literally everything you're saying should make them sympathetic to free speech was perpetrated, in the west, by the right-wing. So go figure: they don't like them.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
kbody 8y ago
Kinda saturated of the so called "censorship-free"-Patreon solutions if you follow the space, but the whole point is to not have to trust that someone won't block you. So a solution is not yet another platform but everyone (that cares enough) to run their own decentralized way of accepting payments/support. Just install BtcPayServer ( https://btcpayserver.org/ https://btcpayserver.org/ ) and you can start accepting payments in Bitcoin and other coins even via LN, without having to trust any intermediary plus no extra middlemen fees.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  What's needed is an app that lets people donate in a low friction way. I had been using Patreon as a poor man's micropayments. I'd like to see (or make) a "pay them somehow" web app, that keeps tabs on creator's payment methods, and after some judicious setup, takes care of all the rigamarole of donating for you. Crypto, Paypal, etc. Such a system could even cut checks and mail them, if needed. (For some extra fees.) Ideally, I could do something like set my monthly expenditure at something like $40, and I could nominate a list of creators, and they could all just get $1 per month.
  - toufiqbarhamov 8y ago
    How do you make and implement such a thing without turning it into the mother of all money laundries?
    - njarboe 8y ago
      Life would be so much better without an income tax. It's a bad idea to tax people trading with each other. Win/win actions are something that should be encouraged. I'd support some kind of national land value tax in the US if we nullified the 16th amendment at the same time.
      - drenvuk 8y ago
        I don't agree with this. Wealth was tied to land in the past but not anymore. If there were something that could be equated with a land as a resource then I'd support the effort but an income tax is more of a catch all for the various ways that wealth can be generated. I think it's a rule that should be used in a more effective (and simpler) manner but I definitely still support an income tax.
r32a_ 8y ago
Lot's of activity in these censorship-free alternatives to popular applications. Interesting to see if this is just a fad or are these going to make any impact incumbents.
- eli 8y ago
  I doubt twitter is too worried about Gab
  - belltaco 8y ago
    Same with Reddit and Voat.
    - cabalamat 8y ago
      I think you and eli are both right. Neither Gab not Voat are likely to succeed, because of network effects. The only way a new social network is likely to succeed is if it is part of a federation of social networks that communicate using protocols such as ActivityPub, making one big network where the whole exceeds the sum of thew parts.
      - eli 8y ago
        Sure, but mostly because they’re full of exactly the sort of people I don’t want to interact with
        cabalamat 8y ago
        That may well be true. But maybe some Gab people want to interact with some Voat people, and if the applications were interoperable they would be able to.
    - syshum 8y ago
      And I am sure dig was not worried about Reddit... and MySpace was not worried about Facebook, and AltaVista was not worried about Google.... The idea that Reddit, Twitter and Patreon can not be supplanted show an ignorance of history
lern_too_spel 8y ago
This just replaces one problem with another. How do you convert your Bitcoins into useful money? Is there a censorship free exchange, or do you have to trade with individuals directly?
- swfsql 8y ago
  It's, at least, much easier to "move money around". You could find some difficulty to trade for "local money", but to "really stop you", the censors would need to put an immense effort. Without this alternative, it's basically "effortless" for them to cancel your banking access. So they'll lose this "effortless advantage".
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
therealmarv 8y ago
This are the platforms we need more. Not this, hey I invited this new coin named XYZ around my/this service which will revolutionize the industry, ICO & trading soon blablabla "whitepapaer" & "scam" & "fill-my-pocket scheme" here. Just build something around Bitcoin or Ethereum for the payment/payout centric problems in this world and use a very good exchangable well established, EXISTING cryptocurrency. No need to reinvent the wheel again&again.
belltaco 8y ago
What happened to Hatereon?
- syshum 8y ago
  I believe Paypal and other Processors discontinued their ability to process CreditCards
theuttick 8y ago
I don't understand how this works. If I am giving you money and your are giving bitcoin to the people I am supporting, then mastercard will not allow you to take money if you facilitate right wing views. If I am giving you bitcoin and you are giving money to the people I support, then Mastercard will cut you off if those people have right wing views. If I am giving you bitcoin and you are giving bitcoin to the people I support, then how is it different from just giving bitcoin? It doesn't really solve the free speech problem as what is needed is a way for all views to be paid with the ease of a credit card, instead of just approved views.
- aeternus 8y ago
  Mainly microtransactions. The bitcoin fee can be high and might not make sense if you want to give someone say 10 cents for every article you read.
  - sadris 8y ago
    This is what BAT is for
- snissn 8y ago
  You would be giving bitcoin directly to the people you are supported, mediated by their technology. ( my understanding of it without knowing the team and seeing the released project as it's just a preview)
- tzs 8y ago
  > [...] mastercard will not allow you to take money if you facilitate right wing views That is clearly not correct. You can subscribe or donate to "The National Review", "The Weekly Standard", "The American Spectator", "The American Conservative", "The New American", and "FrontPage Magazine" all via MasterCard, and these are all right wing publications facilitating right ring views.
  - belltaco 8y ago
    Its kind of telling that the right wing is embracing alt right nazi and other people calling for violence and genocide as 'right wing'.
motohagiography 8y ago
The problem BitPatron and others are solving for is of opaque political interests exerting influence on an oligopoly of payments providers. Right or left, payment freedom and diversity is a problem worth solving. If people are seriously accepting moral leadership from credit card companies, what is there really to add.
jchw 8y ago
Persistent, powerful people who want to push their moral imperatives on others have avenues other than payment processors. I think we need more decentralization than this.
- snissn 8y ago
  Could you explain a bit on the type of attack that BitPatron doesn't resolve?
  - jchw 8y ago
    Appears to be hosted on AWS, based on the certificate (I'm on mobile or else I'd check more in depth.) Based on that, I'd say you put pressure on Amazon to put pressure on Bitpatron. Now Amazon isn't known to succumb to external pressure as far as I know. But depending on desperation and resources there's really a lot you could do. For example you could even go ahead and manufacture a controversy with some fake accounts and use it as evidence that Bitpatron is not doing due diligence. And of course, you could try to find another point of failure, like trying to convince their domain registar that the site is illegal. A lot of domain registars cave easily to pressure (Not all. Gandi is a good counter example.) These aren't really theoretical attack vectors, but they are merely hypothetical for Bitpatron. Still, if you want something resistant to speech control you are gonna need more decentralization imo.
    - flatfilefan 8y ago
      „Now Amazon isn't known to succumb to external pressure as far as I know.” Actually it is known to succumb: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/01/wikileaks-website-cables-servers-amazon https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/01/wikileaks-webs...
      - sattoshi 8y ago
        There is a difference between being pressured by social activists versus a state capable of doing a lot more than bad PR. They also mildly fell to Russian pressure from the Telegram stuff. In neither case can I blame them. Those are fights which hurt them with very little upside.
ilaksh 8y ago
To me this type of thing is the biggest indicator that Ethereum is the right path going forward. Because their programming language builds in support for systems like this with smart contracts. And also Ethereum is tackling scaling and microtransactions head on with major upgrades to their core.
- swfsql 8y ago
  But the foremost problem is really payment processing. Next problems come "next" so to say. Think of a Swiss Army Knife. Just because it can act as a fork, as a knife, as a spoon, (and so on): nor restaurants will present consumers with Swiss Army Knifes, nor consumers would appreciate it. Sometimes the direct and relatively simple is indeed more suitable/needed. Depends on the domain, sure.. which, in this case, I think it's really "actual payment" problem (not contracts etc).
  - ilaksh 8y ago
    In this case sending money is a big part of it but sending money to support something specific at a pre-determined interval is another part.
- stjohnswarts 8y ago
  until there is a digital currency that is the only digital currency and not everyone can just make a new digital currency then there won't be any 'real' digital currencies that will stand the test of time.
  - giornogiovanna 8y ago
    Why must there only be one? It's not like there's only one physical currency.
- Erlich_Bachman 8y ago
  What technical function exactly do you assume such a platform needs from Ethereum, that is not already provided in Bitcoin?
microcolonel 8y ago
Coinbase is already blocking users for content reasons, so it may be hard to get your bitcoin through the exchange if others follow suit.
chasing 8y ago
I see "censorship-free" and think "BitPatron is to Patreon what Gab.ai is to Twitter, the 'censorship-free' alternative."
- api 8y ago
  This comment reminds me of something I read a while back about Tor, I2P, and Freenet-- that the fact that those services are loaded with child porn and other nasty stuff is in a way a positive commentary on our society. It shows that the mainstream is healthy enough that the vast majority of speech and activity does not feel a need to go underground. You could say the same thing about "censorship-free" alternatives being full of fascists and racists and people announcing that they're "going in" before shooting up a synagogue. That being said I do subscribe to the Larry Flynt doctrine of free speech-- free speech is measured by the freedom of the least sympathetic speakers. The fact that platforms like gab.ai can be created without legal ramifications means that we still basically have free speech.
  - sintaxi 8y ago
    There is no such thing as "basically free speech".
  - sparkie 8y ago
    Most Chinese citizens do not feel the need to go "underground". North Korean citizens generally don't go "underground" either. Do you think they're well informed about the world? It's a different story in the west now, where information is generally available without the need to go "underground", so to speak - so why would be not be intent on keeping it that way? It seems that some people would like to drive things underground because it hurts their feelings. Is China the role model we're aspiring to become?
- Fomite 8y ago
  "There's money to be made in being the Nazi infested niche of a market."
laurynas-s 8y ago
Great to see alternative built with cryptocurrencies. Since biycoun doesn't have subscriptions, you'd need to topup your account X amount which then gets distributed over the months to bitpatreons?
- Erlich_Bachman 8y ago
  Would that really be such a big nuisance? It could even be set up automatically in some wallets.
seibelj 8y ago
Yet another interesting service made possible by blockchain and cryptocurrency. But HN commenters will continue to say crypto is nothing but a useless scam.
ng12 8y ago
Can someone explain exactly what is pressuring payment processors to pass moral judgement on the payments they're processing? I'm sure MasterCard would rather not waste resources moderating Patreon users, so what's pressuring them to do so?
- Hydraulix989 8y ago
  Many of the voluntary donors on Patreon are averse to supporting their favorite creators on a platform that does not take a "moral" stand when needed (at the donors' discretion). This has been the actual user behavior (even organized protests against Patreon!) for not banning certain political figures.
  - sparkie 8y ago
    This seems counter to Patreon's claims that Mastercard has forced them to make decisions. If there were complainants on Patreon, would they not just complain to Patreon first?
    - Hydraulix989 8y ago
      You're referring to one specific case (of which there are many). Also, even in this specific case, I encourage you to evaluate the facts, press, and public statements yourself, ask yourself the right questions, and do your own critical thinking.
  - andai 8y ago
    Meanwhile, other voluntary donors are leaving Patreon because of the bannings.
- woodman 8y ago
  Wallstreet. My financial advisor tried to sell me on this new socially conscious index, years ago. Political correctness is great for business - very predictable, very manageable. https://www.institutionalinvestor.com/article/b14z9vvlscsnp2/european-pensions-go-green-for-social-and-bottomline-benefits https://www.institutionalinvestor.com/article/b14z9vvlscsnp2...
hkt 8y ago
Censorship free.. so it is OK for neo-Nazis to use this, free from companies who don't want to sully their brands. GOTCHA. Sounds awful.
- nathan_f77 8y ago
  Yeah, I'm not sure why are you being downvoted for this opinion. There's a lot of truly horrible things that I don't want to see on the internet. To me, this sounds like a platform for anyone who gets banned by Patreon. e.g Neo-Nazis, hate speech, child pornography, or even funding terrorism. I would be more interested if they did censor the truly awful content while being more permissive than Patreon. I don't think "100% censorship-free" is a good thing.
  - zozbot123 8y ago
    I very much doubt that this is going to be used for any stuff that's actually illegal. They don't need "hard" censorship resistance, they just need not to depend on a handful of centralized payment processors.
    - nathan_f77 8y ago
      Yeah I would be more suspicious if this was an onion site that you could only access through Tor. Today I learned that the US doesn't have any laws against hate speech [1], while most other countries do have laws [2]. I personally don't think that this is a good thing for the US. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_in_the_United_Stat... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech
  - hkt 8y ago
    It is just neo-Nazis brigading the thread. I wouldn't worry.
luckydata 8y ago
Oh man, this will go great. Let me grab the .
bitpatron 8y ago
Who are these guys? We submitted this exact idea with the exact name to YC Summer 2018 and had an interview. Proof: https://i.imgur.com/a8B5KJ7.png https://i.imgur.com/a8B5KJ7.png
- AElsinore77 8y ago
  I'm the above poster's cofounder that pitched this in person with YC on April 30, 2018 - exact same name and idea. I'm definitely curious if this is just innocent coincidence.
  - nathan_f77 8y ago
    I wouldn't be too surprised. It's a very logical name for the idea, and makes sense that other people would think of it. To be honest, I'm not too sure if this would be the best fit for a startup incubator and VC funding. If I was a libertarian and very interested in free speech, I think I would prefer to use a platform that was bootstrapped and independent. Going through a startup incubator and taking VC funding doesn't feel very aligned with this culture.
  - bitpatron-co 8y ago
    Definitely coincidence, we are not even based in U.S. and we never had any connection with Y.C. We wanted a simple name and this was one of the first options we thought, together with BitSubscribe . Hope you understand.
- chrisfrantz 8y ago
  That’s rough. Have you launched?
- arisAlexis 8y ago
  What surprises you exactly? That others had the same idea as you did? It happens to me almost for every side project I start. I see it in a few weeks in the news or something.
- stjohnswarts 8y ago
  It is a dead obvious strategy in light of recent political correctness driving the dropping of socially unpopular charities/individuals from places like patreon, along with the universality of digital currency.
tootahe45 8y ago
It's the payment providers who are the problem, and you can't really skip a single one. Want to exclude a PayPal option? your content creators will get say %20 less, want to exclusively use crypto with current adoption rates? i'd assume you'd see only a fraction of the money you'd get on regular patreon. There's a reason Patreon has ex-paypal insiders working for them.
Simon_says 8y ago
In any sane world, the ability to accept payments would be a service every bank would offer.
unknownkadath 8y ago
I'm sorry, I just can't get worked up over The Hitler Store not being able to use Paypal.
0x445442 8y ago
Show HN... $CashPay$ $CashPay$ is a pivot on the Offering Plate employed by the church and by beggars for millennium; cash. FAQ Q: As a content creator, how do I accept payment for my work? A: Content creators disclose a PO Box address. Q: As a patron of content creators, how can I support them? A: Patrons can send cash, pre-paid debit cards, money orders, etc. in an envelope to the disclosed PO Box address.
tmaic 8y ago
"There already is a crypto patreon - bitbacker.io , and this one has some scandal surrounding it: https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/aey3x8/were_creating_a_patreon_alternative_powered_by/?utm_source=reddit-android https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/aey3x8/were_creating_a...
- bitpatron-co 8y ago
  This is someone under .io domain, nothing to do with us. BitBacker is nice, but tbh, it still lacks the necessary features and even more important a proper ux to be a real alternative for most of Patreon users.
nootropicat 8y ago
Where's the added value? Patreon handles fiat payments. Anyone can accept crypto directly, zero need for any intermediary.

294 points by crazyamir 8y ago

throwawaymath 8y ago

Is censorship a problem with Patreon?

judgardner 8y ago
Apparently yes. Visa/MasterCard pressure Patreon to drop users with views they don’t approve of. Most recently alt-right users. I think it’s important to protect free speech, especially the kind I don’t agree with.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  Most recently alt-right users. Most prominently, recently, a center-left commentator whose opinions certain executives don't like.
  - kevinh 8y ago
    The one I'm aware of is Sargon of Akkad, who I'd certainly consider to be alt-right. Who are you referring to?
    - kgraves 8y ago
      Hmmm, I have never heard of that guy, are alt-right people just pure white supremacist nazis or just people on the right wing of politics? Seems to me that Sargon person is one of those but can't tell.
      - stcredzero 8y ago
        Sargon long self-identified as a liberal. For a long time, he ended up right where the UK Green party was on the Political Compass test, and also matched me pretty spot on. (I'm a child of immigrants, non-white, and a lifelong liberal.) He's moved a bit to the right, but could be rightly called a "centrist." There's a dishonest tactic of tarring at play here.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
        pcbro141 8y ago
        Is it really 'dishonest tarring' to point out how silly it is to point out how he criticizes the Alt-Right and White Nationalists, when the method he uses to criticize them is to tell them they act like n * * * ers?
        dx87 8y ago
        IIRC, he used that word specifically because he knew they were racists, so he deliberatley used a slur he knew they'd hate. It'd be like him referring to communists as capitalist pigs. He may not have a problem with capitalism, but he's using an anti-capitalist insult to drive home the point that they are acting no better than the people they hate.
        stcredzero 8y ago
        Is it really 'dishonest tarring' to point out how silly it is to point out how he criticizes the Alt-Right and White Nationalists, when the method he uses to criticize them is to tell them they act like n... ers? No. What's dishonest is to call people like Sargon of Akkad, Tim Pool, Sam Harris, Dave Rubin, or Steven Pinker "Alt Right" in an attempt to silence them purely by association. All of those people oppose the alt right! Really, no one should be getting away with those cheesy 80's Moral Majority tactics. If just using the n-word makes one alt right, then my creole ex-girlfriend's transvestite creole musician brother is "Alt Right" -- NOT!
        Apocryphon 8y ago
        The more obviously objectionable thing with Sargon, from Patreon’s POV, is probably that he’s a Gamergater, if we’re talking about controversies of the past five years.
    - asabjorn 8y ago
      He was fighting against alt righters that had targeted him for months in the clip he got banned for where he called them out on their bigoted opinions and poor behavior, and is a known target of theirs. To say he is alt right is unreasonable and incorrect, although for some he is certainly divisive.
      - stcredzero 8y ago
        One of the odd things about the clip he got banned for, was that the most likely way it could have come to the attention of Patreon, was for the Alt-Right to have submitted it. Basically, it looks like Patreon was doing the bidding of the Alt-Right by doing what's politically convenient for the far left. To say he is alt right is unreasonable and incorrect, although for some he is certainly divisive. That's basically the same kind of tactics religious fundamentalists tried to pull in shaming homosexuals way back when. That sort of social manipulation through dishonest labeling, that spirit of squashing dissent -- it's the same kind of tribalist petty evil practiced by bigots back in the day. People who know better need to stand up and call it out.
        asabjorn 8y ago
        You seem correct in the observations that the far right and left believe in the same worldview with opposite arrows, seeking to oppress any dissent to this worldview through fake outrage. Both share the worldview that the superior whites need to either help or rule, depending on which fringe we are talking with. Both unfounded beliefs as there are bigger variance within than between identity politics groups.
        sparkie 8y ago
        This is Horseshoe Theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory). Commentators from both sides will vehemently defend their position and claim it to be nothing like the other side. From the reasonable person's perspective (more towards centre), both extremes are authoritarian, and their similarities are more striking than their differences.
    - stcredzero 8y ago
      Sargon of Akkad is highly critical of the Alt-Right. He describes himself as a "classical British liberal." However, since he also criticizes the far left, the far left tars him as Alt-Right, which I find to be an authoritarian and highly dishonest tactic. Basically, it's a tactic to get everyone to shut-up and put-up through intimidation, brooking no dissent from their own side. That's not how liberals should be engaging and searching for the truth. That's basically how George W. Bush was acting when he was selling the WMD narrative.
      - dragonwriter 8y ago
        > He describes himself as a "classical British liberal” “Classical liberal”, with or without “British”, is a standard self-identification for modern conservatives, especially right-libertarians; a very wide portion of the political spectrum—reaching pretty far both left and right and everywhere in between—in the modern West, especially the Anglo-American subset, has or claims roots in 18th century British liberal thought. > However, since he also criticizes the far left, the far left tars him as Alt-Right, Lots of people criticize the far left without being labelled Alt-Right; OTOH, he does seem to be from a space slightly more libertarian though equally far right and equally, or nearly so, xenophobic on most social axes to the Alt-Right. So there is a real, if perhaps exquisitely fine, distinction there.
        stcredzero 8y ago
        That's more of that dishonest narrative/tarring. The man's not even white, IIRC. He's part middle eastern in descent. "Xenophobic" is the label used by the far left to tar anyone who believes in stricter border policies. He's also highly critical of all groups he perceives as using Identity Politics, which in present day includes both the far left and far right of the political spectrum. Both the far left and the far right target him, the far left doing it by using the "Alt-Right" mislabeling, with the far right going along with it for trolling purposes. So there is a real, if perhaps exquisitely fine, distinction there. In 2018, this is called an "exquisitely fine, distinction" where in years past, he would just have been called center-left.
    - vowelless 8y ago
      Alt right is neo nazis and white nationalists. Good to know this guy is alt right. Need to stay away from them! It’s so strange that banning of Neo nazis (as you describe him) is controversial!
      - stcredzero 8y ago
        The guy spends considerable time and effort criticizing and debating the Alt Right, neo nazis, and white nationalists. It’s so strange that banning of Neo nazis (as you describe him) is controversial! It's controversial, because many people are being labeled thusly as a dishonest authoritarian intimidation tactic. Tim Pool, who's non-white, a lifelong liberal, and left leaning, is another alternative journalist who is similarly -- and dishonestly, inaccurately -- tarred. It's controversial, because there are those of us in the liberal camp seeing such dishonest and authoritarian tactics used to silence dissent from within the left. That's not how democratic institutions and organizations who supposedly care about truth are supposed to act.
        vowelless 8y ago
        I am sure kevinh is a good person and won’t just randomly call someone a Neo nazi, white nationalist, alt right, etc.
        stcredzero 8y ago
        Many good people get fooled by programs to push a narrative.
        pcbro141 8y ago
        > The guy spends considerable time and effort criticizing and debating the Alt Right, neo nazis, and white nationalists. He criticizes the Alt-Right and White Nationalists in part by calling them n * * * ers, just so it's clear for readers.
        oh_sigh 8y ago
        Is that wrong? Would it be like a gay guy calling a homophobe a fag?
    - companyhen 8y ago
      Didn't Jordan Peterson also get banned?
      - stcredzero 8y ago
        No. He's voluntarily leaving Patreon, however.
    - syshum 8y ago
      Wow... Sargon is alt-right now. I guess the meme about everyone not being on the extreme authoritarian left being "alt-right" is actually true. Sargon is Center Libertarian, pretty far from the alt-right which are more accurately labeled Authoritarian Right
  - Steko 8y ago
    > a center-left commentator Baloney. He's claims to not be alt right despite having identical views on most topics. It's about as convincing as when the KKK says they aren't racist, they just love white people.
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > He's claims to not be alt right despite having identical views on most topics He does cite specific differences from the Alt-Right, e.g., he views as excessively collectivist; he hates most of the things they hate, which makes the difference largely academic to a lot of people outside of the broader far right.
- cm2187 8y ago
  I don’t care that much about Patreon censoring the right, because there are many alternatives to take payments online. There are none however to visa/mastercard. It’s a cartel, where the choice is not even made by a customer (it is made by your bank who won’t even ask you), and there is no real alternative. I am pro-free markets but when that happens, I am actually in favor of regulations hitting these two hard, rather than going after google.
  - r3bl 8y ago
    > I don’t care that much about Patreon censoring the right, because there are many alternatives to take payments online. There are none however to visa/mastercard. This is where you're wrong. If a payment processor doesn't like someone, they'll just threaten a platform after platform wherever you pop up. Block whoever we don't like or you won't be able to process payments. Case in point: Sargon of Akkad. I'm not going to take any stand in this controversy because I don't know the backstory, however as soon as he switched from Patreon to SubscribeStar, PayPal went after SubscribeStar. I'm assuming they've said no when asked to block Sargon, because you can no longer cash out via PayPal. It wasn't Patreon that was after him, it was PayPal.
    - cm2187 8y ago
      Yeah but paypal is just an intermediary. You can use Stripe or pretty much any bank. If visa/mastercard tells you they will block payments to that website because they don't like your ideas, that's the end of it.
drenvuk 8y ago
Quite a problem, yes. They're trying to stay on the nice side of credit card and other financial companies so porn, speech that takes on controversial/flame/political/religious topics, being a dick or unsavory person, doing illegal things in $COUNTRY will get you banned from the platform. It's understandable from a staying in business point of view but it can feel hypocritical, heavy handed and disingenuous when you hear the CEO speaking about it and explaining the company's actions to users. He won't own up to what they're doing, which would allow people at least be able to empathize with him. I don't use the platform and I don't support anyone on Patreon. Unless I've made a mistake explaining the situation I'd prefer not to expand this thread. It's serious flamebait.
- throwawaymath 8y ago
  Interesting. That's not directly relevant to me but I was considering Patreon for a project, so this is at least good to know. Thanks for the explanation.
  - dogma1138 8y ago
    It is because there might be a pretty big overlap of patrons between you and someone who will get banned which like now would result in people stopping donating through Patreon because a creator they donated to was deplatofrmed which affects multiple channels.
porpoisely 8y ago
It is a big problem with Patreon as it is with almost all major tech platforms - especially those who have dominant positions without any current viable competition. I can understand shutting down accounts involved in criminal activity but blocking transactions because you disagree with their political views or speech is ridiculous. The hubris of the tech leaders are a cause for concern. Who voted for them to be our puritanical leaders and tyrants? Do we really want Tim Cook, Zuckerburg, Page/Brin, Conte, etc to be our moral censors? Do we really want them to be the American Politburo to rule over us? I certainly don't. What's even more incredible is that the co-founder of Patreon is a musician by trade. You would think he, of all people, would be against censorship.
- quadrangle 8y ago
  A musician, of all people, against censorship? I don't follow. Leaving aside the false-dichotomy implication about all-or-nothing / black-or-white / for-censorship-or-against-it, there's nothing about being a musician that would particularly predict someone's political views.
  - porpoisely 8y ago
    Other than the fact that musicians and music have been victims of censorship? Other than the fact that musicians had to overcome attempts to censor music? Whether it is ragtime or rock 'n roll or gangsta rap or even classical like mahler. You would think a profession that depends on free speech protection would be more sympathetic to free speech. Also, in many instances, you can predict someone's political views with some accuracy just by their profession.
    - XorNot 8y ago
      Other then the fact that musicians have been bullied and harassed for almost every facet of their identity in some form by right-wing movements for most of the 20th century? Literally everything you're saying should make them sympathetic to free speech was perpetrated, in the west, by the right-wing. So go figure: they don't like them.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

kbody 8y ago

Kinda saturated of the so called "censorship-free"-Patreon solutions if you follow the space, but the whole point is to not have to trust that someone won't block you. So a solution is not yet another platform but everyone (that cares enough) to run their own decentralized way of accepting payments/support. Just install BtcPayServer ( https://btcpayserver.org/ https://btcpayserver.org/ ) and you can start accepting payments in Bitcoin and other coins even via LN, without having to trust any intermediary plus no extra middlemen fees.

stcredzero 8y ago
What's needed is an app that lets people donate in a low friction way. I had been using Patreon as a poor man's micropayments. I'd like to see (or make) a "pay them somehow" web app, that keeps tabs on creator's payment methods, and after some judicious setup, takes care of all the rigamarole of donating for you. Crypto, Paypal, etc. Such a system could even cut checks and mail them, if needed. (For some extra fees.) Ideally, I could do something like set my monthly expenditure at something like $40, and I could nominate a list of creators, and they could all just get $1 per month.
- toufiqbarhamov 8y ago
  How do you make and implement such a thing without turning it into the mother of all money laundries?
  - njarboe 8y ago
    Life would be so much better without an income tax. It's a bad idea to tax people trading with each other. Win/win actions are something that should be encouraged. I'd support some kind of national land value tax in the US if we nullified the 16th amendment at the same time.
    - drenvuk 8y ago
      I don't agree with this. Wealth was tied to land in the past but not anymore. If there were something that could be equated with a land as a resource then I'd support the effort but an income tax is more of a catch all for the various ways that wealth can be generated. I think it's a rule that should be used in a more effective (and simpler) manner but I definitely still support an income tax.

r32a_ 8y ago

Lot's of activity in these censorship-free alternatives to popular applications. Interesting to see if this is just a fad or are these going to make any impact incumbents.

eli 8y ago
I doubt twitter is too worried about Gab
- belltaco 8y ago
  Same with Reddit and Voat.
  - cabalamat 8y ago
    I think you and eli are both right. Neither Gab not Voat are likely to succeed, because of network effects. The only way a new social network is likely to succeed is if it is part of a federation of social networks that communicate using protocols such as ActivityPub, making one big network where the whole exceeds the sum of thew parts.
    - eli 8y ago
      Sure, but mostly because they’re full of exactly the sort of people I don’t want to interact with
      - cabalamat 8y ago
        That may well be true. But maybe some Gab people want to interact with some Voat people, and if the applications were interoperable they would be able to.
  - syshum 8y ago
    And I am sure dig was not worried about Reddit... and MySpace was not worried about Facebook, and AltaVista was not worried about Google.... The idea that Reddit, Twitter and Patreon can not be supplanted show an ignorance of history

lern_too_spel 8y ago

This just replaces one problem with another. How do you convert your Bitcoins into useful money? Is there a censorship free exchange, or do you have to trade with individuals directly?

swfsql 8y ago
It's, at least, much easier to "move money around". You could find some difficulty to trade for "local money", but to "really stop you", the censors would need to put an immense effort. Without this alternative, it's basically "effortless" for them to cancel your banking access. So they'll lose this "effortless advantage".
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

therealmarv 8y ago

This are the platforms we need more. Not this, hey I invited this new coin named XYZ around my/this service which will revolutionize the industry, ICO & trading soon blablabla "whitepapaer" & "scam" & "fill-my-pocket scheme" here. Just build something around Bitcoin or Ethereum for the payment/payout centric problems in this world and use a very good exchangable well established, EXISTING cryptocurrency. No need to reinvent the wheel again&again.

belltaco 8y ago

What happened to Hatereon?

syshum 8y ago
I believe Paypal and other Processors discontinued their ability to process CreditCards

theuttick 8y ago

I don't understand how this works. If I am giving you money and your are giving bitcoin to the people I am supporting, then mastercard will not allow you to take money if you facilitate right wing views. If I am giving you bitcoin and you are giving money to the people I support, then Mastercard will cut you off if those people have right wing views. If I am giving you bitcoin and you are giving bitcoin to the people I support, then how is it different from just giving bitcoin? It doesn't really solve the free speech problem as what is needed is a way for all views to be paid with the ease of a credit card, instead of just approved views.

aeternus 8y ago
Mainly microtransactions. The bitcoin fee can be high and might not make sense if you want to give someone say 10 cents for every article you read.
- sadris 8y ago
  This is what BAT is for
snissn 8y ago
You would be giving bitcoin directly to the people you are supported, mediated by their technology. ( my understanding of it without knowing the team and seeing the released project as it's just a preview)
tzs 8y ago
> [...] mastercard will not allow you to take money if you facilitate right wing views That is clearly not correct. You can subscribe or donate to "The National Review", "The Weekly Standard", "The American Spectator", "The American Conservative", "The New American", and "FrontPage Magazine" all via MasterCard, and these are all right wing publications facilitating right ring views.
- belltaco 8y ago
  Its kind of telling that the right wing is embracing alt right nazi and other people calling for violence and genocide as 'right wing'.

motohagiography 8y ago

The problem BitPatron and others are solving for is of opaque political interests exerting influence on an oligopoly of payments providers. Right or left, payment freedom and diversity is a problem worth solving. If people are seriously accepting moral leadership from credit card companies, what is there really to add.

jchw 8y ago

Persistent, powerful people who want to push their moral imperatives on others have avenues other than payment processors. I think we need more decentralization than this.

snissn 8y ago
Could you explain a bit on the type of attack that BitPatron doesn't resolve?
- jchw 8y ago
  Appears to be hosted on AWS, based on the certificate (I'm on mobile or else I'd check more in depth.) Based on that, I'd say you put pressure on Amazon to put pressure on Bitpatron. Now Amazon isn't known to succumb to external pressure as far as I know. But depending on desperation and resources there's really a lot you could do. For example you could even go ahead and manufacture a controversy with some fake accounts and use it as evidence that Bitpatron is not doing due diligence. And of course, you could try to find another point of failure, like trying to convince their domain registar that the site is illegal. A lot of domain registars cave easily to pressure (Not all. Gandi is a good counter example.) These aren't really theoretical attack vectors, but they are merely hypothetical for Bitpatron. Still, if you want something resistant to speech control you are gonna need more decentralization imo.
  - flatfilefan 8y ago
    „Now Amazon isn't known to succumb to external pressure as far as I know.” Actually it is known to succumb: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/01/wikileaks-website-cables-servers-amazon https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/01/wikileaks-webs...
    - sattoshi 8y ago
      There is a difference between being pressured by social activists versus a state capable of doing a lot more than bad PR. They also mildly fell to Russian pressure from the Telegram stuff. In neither case can I blame them. Those are fights which hurt them with very little upside.

ilaksh 8y ago

To me this type of thing is the biggest indicator that Ethereum is the right path going forward. Because their programming language builds in support for systems like this with smart contracts. And also Ethereum is tackling scaling and microtransactions head on with major upgrades to their core.

swfsql 8y ago
But the foremost problem is really payment processing. Next problems come "next" so to say. Think of a Swiss Army Knife. Just because it can act as a fork, as a knife, as a spoon, (and so on): nor restaurants will present consumers with Swiss Army Knifes, nor consumers would appreciate it. Sometimes the direct and relatively simple is indeed more suitable/needed. Depends on the domain, sure.. which, in this case, I think it's really "actual payment" problem (not contracts etc).
- ilaksh 8y ago
  In this case sending money is a big part of it but sending money to support something specific at a pre-determined interval is another part.
stjohnswarts 8y ago
until there is a digital currency that is the only digital currency and not everyone can just make a new digital currency then there won't be any 'real' digital currencies that will stand the test of time.
- giornogiovanna 8y ago
  Why must there only be one? It's not like there's only one physical currency.
Erlich_Bachman 8y ago
What technical function exactly do you assume such a platform needs from Ethereum, that is not already provided in Bitcoin?

microcolonel 8y ago

Coinbase is already blocking users for content reasons, so it may be hard to get your bitcoin through the exchange if others follow suit.

chasing 8y ago

I see "censorship-free" and think "BitPatron is to Patreon what Gab.ai is to Twitter, the 'censorship-free' alternative."

api 8y ago
This comment reminds me of something I read a while back about Tor, I2P, and Freenet-- that the fact that those services are loaded with child porn and other nasty stuff is in a way a positive commentary on our society. It shows that the mainstream is healthy enough that the vast majority of speech and activity does not feel a need to go underground. You could say the same thing about "censorship-free" alternatives being full of fascists and racists and people announcing that they're "going in" before shooting up a synagogue. That being said I do subscribe to the Larry Flynt doctrine of free speech-- free speech is measured by the freedom of the least sympathetic speakers. The fact that platforms like gab.ai can be created without legal ramifications means that we still basically have free speech.
- sintaxi 8y ago
  There is no such thing as "basically free speech".
- sparkie 8y ago
  Most Chinese citizens do not feel the need to go "underground". North Korean citizens generally don't go "underground" either. Do you think they're well informed about the world? It's a different story in the west now, where information is generally available without the need to go "underground", so to speak - so why would be not be intent on keeping it that way? It seems that some people would like to drive things underground because it hurts their feelings. Is China the role model we're aspiring to become?
Fomite 8y ago
"There's money to be made in being the Nazi infested niche of a market."

laurynas-s 8y ago

Great to see alternative built with cryptocurrencies. Since biycoun doesn't have subscriptions, you'd need to topup your account X amount which then gets distributed over the months to bitpatreons?

Erlich_Bachman 8y ago
Would that really be such a big nuisance? It could even be set up automatically in some wallets.

seibelj 8y ago

Yet another interesting service made possible by blockchain and cryptocurrency. But HN commenters will continue to say crypto is nothing but a useless scam.

ng12 8y ago

Can someone explain exactly what is pressuring payment processors to pass moral judgement on the payments they're processing? I'm sure MasterCard would rather not waste resources moderating Patreon users, so what's pressuring them to do so?

Hydraulix989 8y ago
Many of the voluntary donors on Patreon are averse to supporting their favorite creators on a platform that does not take a "moral" stand when needed (at the donors' discretion). This has been the actual user behavior (even organized protests against Patreon!) for not banning certain political figures.
- sparkie 8y ago
  This seems counter to Patreon's claims that Mastercard has forced them to make decisions. If there were complainants on Patreon, would they not just complain to Patreon first?
  - Hydraulix989 8y ago
    You're referring to one specific case (of which there are many). Also, even in this specific case, I encourage you to evaluate the facts, press, and public statements yourself, ask yourself the right questions, and do your own critical thinking.
- andai 8y ago
  Meanwhile, other voluntary donors are leaving Patreon because of the bannings.
woodman 8y ago
Wallstreet. My financial advisor tried to sell me on this new socially conscious index, years ago. Political correctness is great for business - very predictable, very manageable. https://www.institutionalinvestor.com/article/b14z9vvlscsnp2/european-pensions-go-green-for-social-and-bottomline-benefits https://www.institutionalinvestor.com/article/b14z9vvlscsnp2...

hkt 8y ago

Censorship free.. so it is OK for neo-Nazis to use this, free from companies who don't want to sully their brands. GOTCHA. Sounds awful.

nathan_f77 8y ago
Yeah, I'm not sure why are you being downvoted for this opinion. There's a lot of truly horrible things that I don't want to see on the internet. To me, this sounds like a platform for anyone who gets banned by Patreon. e.g Neo-Nazis, hate speech, child pornography, or even funding terrorism. I would be more interested if they did censor the truly awful content while being more permissive than Patreon. I don't think "100% censorship-free" is a good thing.
- zozbot123 8y ago
  I very much doubt that this is going to be used for any stuff that's actually illegal. They don't need "hard" censorship resistance, they just need not to depend on a handful of centralized payment processors.
  - nathan_f77 8y ago
    Yeah I would be more suspicious if this was an onion site that you could only access through Tor. Today I learned that the US doesn't have any laws against hate speech [1], while most other countries do have laws [2]. I personally don't think that this is a good thing for the US. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_in_the_United_Stat... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech
- hkt 8y ago
  It is just neo-Nazis brigading the thread. I wouldn't worry.

luckydata 8y ago

Oh man, this will go great. Let me grab the .

bitpatron 8y ago

Who are these guys? We submitted this exact idea with the exact name to YC Summer 2018 and had an interview. Proof: https://i.imgur.com/a8B5KJ7.png https://i.imgur.com/a8B5KJ7.png

AElsinore77 8y ago
I'm the above poster's cofounder that pitched this in person with YC on April 30, 2018 - exact same name and idea. I'm definitely curious if this is just innocent coincidence.
- nathan_f77 8y ago
  I wouldn't be too surprised. It's a very logical name for the idea, and makes sense that other people would think of it. To be honest, I'm not too sure if this would be the best fit for a startup incubator and VC funding. If I was a libertarian and very interested in free speech, I think I would prefer to use a platform that was bootstrapped and independent. Going through a startup incubator and taking VC funding doesn't feel very aligned with this culture.
- bitpatron-co 8y ago
  Definitely coincidence, we are not even based in U.S. and we never had any connection with Y.C. We wanted a simple name and this was one of the first options we thought, together with BitSubscribe . Hope you understand.
chrisfrantz 8y ago
That’s rough. Have you launched?
arisAlexis 8y ago
What surprises you exactly? That others had the same idea as you did? It happens to me almost for every side project I start. I see it in a few weeks in the news or something.
stjohnswarts 8y ago
It is a dead obvious strategy in light of recent political correctness driving the dropping of socially unpopular charities/individuals from places like patreon, along with the universality of digital currency.

tootahe45 8y ago

It's the payment providers who are the problem, and you can't really skip a single one. Want to exclude a PayPal option? your content creators will get say %20 less, want to exclusively use crypto with current adoption rates? i'd assume you'd see only a fraction of the money you'd get on regular patreon. There's a reason Patreon has ex-paypal insiders working for them.

Simon_says 8y ago

In any sane world, the ability to accept payments would be a service every bank would offer.

unknownkadath 8y ago

I'm sorry, I just can't get worked up over The Hitler Store not being able to use Paypal.

0x445442 8y ago

Show HN... $CashPay$ $CashPay$ is a pivot on the Offering Plate employed by the church and by beggars for millennium; cash. FAQ Q: As a content creator, how do I accept payment for my work? A: Content creators disclose a PO Box address. Q: As a patron of content creators, how can I support them? A: Patrons can send cash, pre-paid debit cards, money orders, etc. in an envelope to the disclosed PO Box address.

tmaic 8y ago

"There already is a crypto patreon - bitbacker.io , and this one has some scandal surrounding it: https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/aey3x8/were_creating_a_patreon_alternative_powered_by/?utm_source=reddit-android https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/aey3x8/were_creating_a...

bitpatron-co 8y ago
This is someone under .io domain, nothing to do with us. BitBacker is nice, but tbh, it still lacks the necessary features and even more important a proper ux to be a real alternative for most of Patreon users.

nootropicat 8y ago

Where's the added value? Patreon handles fiat payments. Anyone can accept crypto directly, zero need for any intermediary.