9 ms·

Tell HN: I Hugely Regret Using Stripe Atlas

321 points by mikob 8y ago

I signed my company up through Stripe Atlas thinking it would be more convenient and save me time, boy was I wrong. It's been a time suck dealing with this company and their banking partners, I would recommend other founders who value their time to avoid this service. I've created an LLC in Delaware before using certain other googleable companies and it's gone completely smoothly, so this isn't my first rodeo. First problem, Stripe will create a new, separate Stripe account for you to use with Atlas. So if you already had some transactions (hope you do if you're forming a company) then you're going to need to migrate them. For my company, they just created another account with exactly the same name and just one capitalization difference, pretty confusing. Migration is likely automatic with a cool company like Stripe, right? Nope, they only can migrate your customers -- everything else, subscriptions, coupons, tx data you need to write a script and DIY! Have fun wasting an afternoon updating all your API keys and re-testing too. Side note, if you had special things like the Stripe startup school discount applied to your account, you'll lose it on Atlas. Unless you open up another support ticket with Stripe and wait for a couple weeks. Second problem, if you form a c-corp Stripe will create an account through SVB (Silicon Valley Bank) for you. You can go ahead and read the reviews on that bank yourself, but the biggest annoyance for me was a $25/mo account maintenance fee. OK, not atypical for a business bank, but most banks don't have a $25k+ min. balance for that fee! I do care about $300/year for my company when I specifically payed for Stripe Atlas thinking it would be more convenient and save me money. Third problem, want to switch to Azlo bank so that at least you don't have to pay monthly fees? That's great except Azlo will tell you that you need to talk to Stripe to do that, and surprise Stripe will tell you that... https://gist.github.com/mikob/3cd3d141c60596ee50c0ab2603b5bdb9 https://gist.github.com/mikob/3cd3d141c60596ee50c0ab2603b5bd...

qrush 8y ago
I've just started to use Stripe Atlas and currently waiting on an EIN thanks to the govt shutdown. So far their support has been very responsive and helpful, and even managed to hook up a referral code to a friend's account AND to a separate account of mine that is processing payments via Stripe Connect. I'm sorry you had a bad time, but just wanted to provide a counterpoint here.
edwinwee 8y ago
I'm really sorry for all the confusion. I work at Stripe and would like to dig into this more. Could you email me at edwin@stripe.com?
- haisch 8y ago
  In defense of OP I don't think his problems with Stripe Atlas are born out of any confusion.
  - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
    Indeed. The "confusion" bit is pretty condescending. It reminds me of the similar bit of "I'm sorry you're upset." With that, you're not really sorry, and you're fake-apologizing for someone else's actions.
    - everdev 8y ago
      I think it's awesome a company cares enough to respond to dissatisfaction. Sometimes written words can land differently for different people, but I think it's a bit harsh to judge someone's attempt at help because they assumed there's some confusion. Sure, there are better words to use, but this outreach still puts their customer service at an A-level for me.
      - ovao 8y ago
        And, to be fair, the OP’s situation with getting the runaround between Stripe and the bank is “confusion”. It’s just that the confusion appears to be either on Stripe’s end or on the bank’s.
      - joshmn 8y ago
        I think it's great marketing. There are tons of people who don't have such public outlets — or are unaware of them — to raise their issues.
- joshmn 8y ago
  OP: In the past, edwinwee has offered this same sentiment only to later ignore me. I'm not sure if he got busy or if he's just trying to save face. Previous: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18081918 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18081918
lettergram 8y ago
I personally went through the Stripe Atlas beta, no regrets. At the time the AWS credits saved me thousands of dollars. (On year 2 or 3 now, I don't recall) In terms of what you're discussing though, I agree. Faced those same two issues. What I did: 1. Keep utilizing my other stripe account(s). I have multiple web fronts, and each has it's own stripe account. No issue there, actually zero funds go through the Stripe Atlas account. All the accounts are merged through one login, which is easy enough to see. 2. Closed the SVB (Silicon Valley Bank) account month two of the company. Opened an account with Capital One Spark Business, no minimum fees and the customer service has been good. Moved all my stripe accounts to dump into that account. Honestly, Stripe should really partner with a better bank. All Stripe does is provide an easy way to setup the C-Corp and help with some information. You're still in charge of your business. I did enjoy the suggestions and reminders from Stripe Atlas regarding filings.
- mikob 8y ago
  About 1, I think Stripe Atlas will help me handle accounting if all my transactions come through there. No? That's one of the reasons I bothered with the migration (other being just having a nice consolidation) Actually I use Capital One Spark Business for my other business. They're great but unfortunately not taking any new customers right now.
shafyy 8y ago
I've had a couple of friends use Atlas without any problems. I guess your's is also a kind of an edge case with all the switching etc. Hope they resolve it quickly! Another question: I also think that SVB sucks but is there a better alternative to it? I've heard of Azlo, but their services offering is not as broad as SVB's (e.g. no international transfers)?
- nik736 8y ago
  Azlo is not even a real bank.
rememberlenny 8y ago
I can't disagree more with the OP. I went through Stripe Atlas with an existing problem and didn't have any issues. I found the customer support incredible helpful. Whenever I had questions, I would always get a response within 24 hours. Even more so, I had times when I would get follow ups to on-going issues, making me feel like their customer support process was really solid. I originally signed up as a C-Corp, but realized I wanted to change to an LLC before the process was completed. The support staff helped me and got me on the way very quickly. I didn't have any issues with my banking partner. I was actually able to get my Azlo account started even before my incorporation documents for an EIN number were completed, which was very helpful. I'm not saying all of this other than because I strongly feel Atlas is a very good product. Similar to OP, I have incorporated before, and personally it was a total mess. The first time, I registered a Delaware C-Corp through another legal service I wont name, and found myself paying various costs to a Registered Agent, which was misleadingly introduced. Atlas does a much better job explaining the financial requirements around taxes, which I also didn't have properly explained the first time. Overall, I would strongly recommend Atlas - especially if you can get a discount through some startup program.
feistypharit 8y ago
I was looking at Atlas, but I don't live in Delaware, so I'd still have to deal with managing the business in my home state all myself. That's more forms and fees every year I have to do, in addition to the Delaware ones. In my view Atlas only solves half the problem (unless you've in Delaware)
- edwinwee 8y ago
  TBC, with Stripe Atlas, you get set up in Delaware, but you don’t have to live there. We help you deal with all the paperwork remotely.
  - techsupporter 8y ago
    Aren’t businesses required to also register (as a “foreign” company) in the states where they do business? So if I’m sitting in Iowa doing business with my Delaware-formed business, Iowa still wants a registration?
    - zeckalpha 8y ago
      Yes
burlesona 8y ago
I've had a good experience with it, except that I agree the migrating to a new Stripe account was a big pain. It's really not clear to me why Stripe couldn't either (a) add Atlas to your existing account or (b) migrate your old account to the Atlas account. Either of those would have been very much better than the manual migration I did. However, now that it's long behind me, I do feel it makes things easier for tracking tax implications of stuff. The work I did testing things before incorporation is all sole-proprietor schedule C, whereas the stuff after incorporation is not. I imagine this is why Stripe has this rule, but it would have been nice if they'd just said so up front.
osrec 8y ago
I think Stripe's API is great, but the support has certainly suffered in comparison to the early days. More automated, unhelpful emails than I'd like. Maybe it's inevitable that support and general helpfulness suffer when you grow as quickly as they have?
- edwinwee 8y ago
  Our CSAT metrics have shown support has been improving over the years (particularly since we rolled out 24/7 phone + chat)—but if there’s any case that we’ve felt short on, I’d love to investigate. Can you share some more about those unhelpful emails? If you can forward those to me that’d be useful (edwin@stripe.com).
  - Silhouette 8y ago
    Would those metrics give you any sort of warning about merchants who no longer tend to contact Stripe support when they have problems? Seeing fewer or no support requests from a merchant could mean everything is working well, but it could also mean that people aren't telling you any more when things are not working well.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
spectre256 8y ago
Fellow Stripe Atlas company founder here. SVB is a bit annoying, but really $25/month is probably not worth your time to worry about unless the company is VERY small. Even in our situation, where we are a 2-person consulting company that isn't taking any outside investment, and have to run pretty lean (since we only get to eat and have a house every month if we do enough business to cover it), it's not worth our time to switch. But at a higher level, the Stripe Atlas (and Stripe in general) people have been SO responsive and helpful that I'm surprised they haven't sorted this out yet. It looks like they've even popped up in this thread, so I hope and suspect that will happen soon. With the AWS credits and how generally easy it was, I would definitely recommend it to others who are looking.
- coleca 8y ago
  I looked at using Stripe Atlas to start up a consulting company and they told me not to bother because that would fall into the category of "computer services" which they consider a high risk business and they aren't interested in dealing with it. How were you able to get them to accept you?
  - spectre256 8y ago
    Well, we are bootstrapping a SaaS as well, which is much more Stripe-friendly (we take payments via Stripe). Either that, or I got lucky and they didn't notice. If you are doing purely consulting you probably don't need Stripe Atlas, as the Stripe integration and AWS credits likely won't help you. But if you are doing consulting, I also recommend turning your consulting expertise into a SaaS somehow :)
ed 8y ago
Just wanted to chime in because I've been using Atlas for over a year and am very happy with both the service and the team at Stripe. SVB sucks, true. But $300/yr for a bank account should not be a deal breaker. You'll pay way more than this just to operate the corporation and stay alive. I think I pay around $800/yr just to keep the corporation running (almost non-existent accounting, filing fees and franchise taxes to Delaware). And now that I'm a C Corp I have payroll taxes in addition to salary (~$2k/mo). As always, be sure you really need a corporation before you create one. Most of the tax benefits you get with a corporation (e.g. write-offs), you get as a sole proprietor too. Atlas also made filing 2017 taxes trivial, I never even spoke to an accountant, it was a very smooth process.
- mikob 8y ago
  I don't think 300/year for a bank is itself a deal breaker. Just if it's a crappy bank and I can spend a couple hours fixing that, then it's well worth the 300/yr savings + having a better bank. The trouble is Stripe Atlas has not really been working with me and adding an extra layer of complication. Support team is responsive but issues remain with the product.
deleted 8y ago
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briandear 8y ago
That’s nonsense. I switched my bank to Chase in my Stripe account settings, it took seconds.
- cue232s 8y ago
  Exactly. A non-issue.
- joeblau 8y ago
  Just wondering if that was for a C-Corp or LLC? I'm asking because I'm looking at using Atlas in the next few weeks.
- ryanmercer 8y ago
  OP doesn't understand banking. They want Stripe to close their company's account at bank A (that is not Stripe) and create a new account for their company at bank B (that is not Stripe) not realizing that is THEIR responsibility.
eries 8y ago
I’ve probably helped ten people start a company using Stripe Atlas over the past two years. I know some of them have grown frustrated with SVB and switched banks, but I don’t know any of them who’ve had a bad experience like OP did. Just thought I’d offer these extra data points
eeeeeeeeeeeee 8y ago
I completely disagree with this post. I setup an LLC late last year and it was a very pleasant experience via Atlas. They clearly show a checklist of what you need to do, or what you're waiting on. They email you along the process, or if they need anything from you. If they need additional verification (IDs) they reach out to you. I would definitely do it again through Atlas and I've told others to do the same.
vkaku 8y ago
I would stop using Stripe if they start dictating what bank I can use. I use Stripe Atlas. I agree that the SVB minimum checking account fee is quite high. So I will look to move to Azlo. If Stripe tells me I can't do that, I'll start asking customers to wire my payments to the bank directly. I think that I am happy with Stripe handling the paperwork and basic payments for me (and to compensate them for that), but I'd always want my freedom to run things without extraneous terms.
- ovao 8y ago
  Stripe does not require you to use any particular bank. Setting up an account for you is simply part of the Atlas process.
imroot 8y ago
I've went through Stripe Atlas as well -- and didn't have any issues whatsoever; When we decided that we didn't want to be a C-Corp in DE, we made it before the actual setup, however, when we ran into issues with our process, their support folks were very very helpful and it was zero hassle switching banks.
cue232s 8y ago
Stripe Atlas was pretty good for me. The most organized corporation I've created yet. I also stopped using and paying SVB, because I forgot about the account and actually never used by account for a whole year so they closed it. I opened an BOA account without issue. My only problem is that the mobile app isn't great for ATLAS yet.
nubela 8y ago
Can you recommend which other company you used to incorporate an LLC in Delaware?
- ctdean 8y ago
  https://zenbusiness.com/ https://zenbusiness.com/ will create an LLC (I don't know what state) and then create a bank account if you want with Radius Bank in Boston. I've never used Zen myself, but they and Radius have been good partners.
lukethomas 8y ago
I've been using Stripe Atlas since the beta and I have experienced a few issues similar to the OP. However, I've also saved a ton of time because Stripe emails me about pending issues/changes that I probably wouldn't have known about. SVB is ok - the fee is annoying and their UI kind of sucks, but I haven't switched yet.
abcd_f 8y ago
Mods, can you patch the post to expand the bit.ly link? https://bit.ly/2HhbXjZ https://bit.ly/2HhbXjZ -> https://gist.github.com/mikob/3cd3d141c60596ee50c0ab2603b5bdb9 https://gist.github.com/mikob/3cd3d141c60596ee50c0ab2603b5bd...
- dang 8y ago
  Done now. This kind of thing is best sent to us at hn@ycombinator.com. Random-access mentions in the threads get random access by us, meaning we don't see most of them.
joss82 8y ago
Did you try using https://priceur.com https://priceur.com ? It simplifies stripe account migration (and also multi currency pricing). It's free for now. Enjoy! Disclaimer: I built it.
tptacek 8y ago
and surprise Stripe will tell you that... https://bit.ly/2HhbXjZ https://bit.ly/2HhbXjZ ... they'll do anything they can to help you, will support you over live chat and email, but they're not Azlo Bank and can't open an account there for you? That sounds pretty... reasonable?
- joatmon-snoo 8y ago
  I clicked on the front page link expecting to see some interesting horror story. Instead, all I'm seeing is an OP who doesn't understand how the world works, and multiple voluntary, glowing, customer testimonials. This is fabulous marketing for Stripe.
- mikob 8y ago
  I never said customer support was bad, in fact they're very responsive. I am pointing out how Azlo (Stripe's partnered bank) is telling me it's a Stripe problem and Stripe telling me it's a Azlo problem. It makes more sense to me that if I'm opening a bank with Stripe Atlas, that I should go through Stripe, as they're the ones who created my SVB bank. Azlo asked me to go through Stripe. The Stripe Atlas product has some very rough edges as you'll see others also experienced in the comments.
  - mrunkel 8y ago
    I'll be accused by GP of victim blaming here, but this generally occurs when one organization is being told something slightly different than other organization. Methinks you are probably overcomplicating things at Azlo. Open the account with your org that was created via Atlas at Azlo, stripe should have nothing to do with that. Inform stripe this is the new bank account. You have the controlling interest in the org that was created via Stripe Atlas don't you?
allenleein 8y ago
[Foreign founder] As a foreign founder. I personally went through the Stripe Atlas last month, no regrets at all. The whole process took longer than I expected but it's not their problems (passport name, pic issues...), and I have to say they have pretty solid customer service. Every time I have any issues, they replied my email within 12 hours.
deleted 8y ago
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markonen 8y ago
1) It makes perfect sense that a new account is created and that transactions pre-incorporation are not automatically imported. Your new company is required to have accurate books; you can't pretend that transactions executed before the company existed (ie. by you personally?) were actually executed by the company you've later incorporated. 2) SVB seems to be nobody's favorite bank, but it's quite clear to me that they have been chosen for their willingness to bank for every Atlas customer—including companies founded and operated by non-U.S. persons—without requiring an in-person visit. If this is not a problem for you then consider yourself lucky for having other choices. 3) Your third problem sounds like you've identified a better bank, but they have not accepted you as a client. How is that an issue with Stripe Atlas? They have simply identified and worked with a bank who was willing accept you.
- alexpetralia 8y ago
  I would recommend: Harvard Business Services + BofI bank for anyone looking for a Stripe alternative. I've had no issues so far and it's much cheaper ($150 for registered agent, free online banking).
  - sah2ed 8y ago
    Links? Please. Thanks!
    - no1youknowz 8y ago
      Harvard Business Services: https://www.delawareinc.com/ https://www.delawareinc.com/ BofI bank: https://www.axosbank.com https://www.axosbank.com Would prefer a more concise answer by the OP though, with steps to how he created his LLC.
  - ianamartin 8y ago
    I started using Bank of the Internet (now Axos) for my personal stuff after Simple got shitty. I've been extremely pleased with them. If I were starting a business today, I would absolutely go to them first.
hberg 8y ago
This is the reason I created the startup checklist (https://github.com/leonar15/startup-checklist https://github.com/leonar15/startup-checklist)... so founders could know step by step what needs to be done to set up their companies. Since you'll eventually have to understand all the legal aspects of operating a business, you might as well start off that way.
etaioinshrdlu 8y ago
SVB has a reputation as having really bad tech, a bit overly beaurocratic and annoying in general. With one saving grace, they are known to be highly tolerant of unusual situations. Might help if you are running a weird startup.
- ymolodtsov 8y ago
  Their online banking is probably not the greateast but it does its job and also they tend to trust you, don’t ask tons of stupid questions about what are you wiring and their customer support is top notch. All from personal experience.
  - etaioinshrdlu 8y ago
    My experience is that their customer support was very very slow and rather unhelpful. I had much more pleasant experiences with Chase which in my opinion is the least terrible big bank in the US.
etaioinshrdlu 8y ago
My biggest problem with Stripe is that roughly 50% of transactions are declined! This is a huge business problem. Not uncommon either for Stripe users. I suspect (without proof) that if you are a big trusted entity, Stripe and the whole financial system probably greases the wheels a bit to improve your success rate...
- edwinwee 8y ago
  Oof, that is a problem...a decline rate like that is not normal. Have you seen our guide on reducing your decline rate? https://stripe.com/docs/declines https://stripe.com/docs/declines If you email in (https://support.stripe.com/contact https://support.stripe.com/contact), we also have a declines team that can investigate (I'm also happy to help at edwin@stripe.com).
  - Silhouette 8y ago
    Oof, that is a problem...a decline rate like that is not normal. Does Stripe publish any statistics on what is normal for decline rates, perhaps broken down by categories like payment method, whether it's a first payment or a subsequent subscription payment, how effective the various automatic retry strategies are at saving an initially failed charge, etc?
    - edwinwee 8y ago
      We haven't yet, but that's a neat idea...
- SkyPuncher 8y ago
  > My biggest problem with Stripe is that roughly 50% of transactions are declined! Are you guys actually collecting all of the relevant information for an account, like billing info? We've only had a single failed payment in the past year and it was an issue at the card's bank rather than Stripe.
  - etaioinshrdlu 8y ago
arihant 8y ago
If you're in the US, you can just walk into a bank of your choice and open a account. Stripe doesn't care what you do with your SVB account. Just replace it with your new account number in Stripe payment settings and you're done. This is not an endorsement, but I've been hearing good things about First Republic Bank. If you're not in the US, let me first point out that Azlo doesn't even support international transfers. They do not have login system for multiple founders. I'm very sure they don't work with ITIN and require SSN to open an account. Also, only one debit card. No checkbooks. It appears that you somehow expect every step of the process to be smooth as butter. But nothing about running a startup will be like that. Transferring subscriptions from one Stripe account to another should be the least of your problems when porting an existing business with transactions to a c-corp. Talk to a lawyer and an accountant to understand what you got yourself into. Since you're trying to migrate transactions before the incorporation into the company account, you should talk to them earliest you can.
- trapexit 8y ago
  First Republic's customer service is top notch. My accounts can't possibly generate much revenue for them, but they still treat me like royalty whenever I call/email them or walk into the office. The only thing I have to complain about is that (as of a year ago) they don't offer an overdraft line of credit for small business accounts.
  - BostonEnginerd 8y ago
    Their student loan refinancing products are pretty fantastic. I highly recommend anyone with a large student loan to look them up!
monochromatic 8y ago
I won’t do business with Stripe in general, due to their anti-rights stance in refusing firearm/weapon transactions. https://stripe.com/us/restricted-businesses https://stripe.com/us/restricted-businesses
- adrianh 8y ago
  You just gave me another reason to like Stripe.
- Confusion 8y ago
  I hope you are trolling.
  - monochromatic 8y ago
    Payment processing should be agnostic as to the subject of payment, as long as no laws are being broken. How would you like it if Visa suddenly decided that you couldn’t use their cards for buying alcohol?
    - dominicr 8y ago
      Lots of credit card companies have restrictions on where they can be used. Cryptocurrency is an obvious example. The problem is that there are a lot of laws around gun purchase, especially globally, and the legal repercussions (federal and civil) of an illegal gun sale can be a LOT more than the repercussions of selling illegal beer.
    - ryanmercer 8y ago
      Here's the thing, and keep in mind I'm very pro 2a. It has nothing to do with 'oh gun are bad' 'oh drugs are bad' 'oh porn is bad' it does however have everything to do with 'high risk items lead to much higher chargeback/fraud rates and we'd just as soon as not deal with that unpredictability and general headache'. That is why 'high risk' processors charge a considerably higher % and per transaction fee and generally hold a percentage (I've personally seen as high as 50%) of every transaction for 1 month or longer (I saw an extreme of one holding 50%, releasing 25% after one month and the other 25% after 3 months before releasing it to the business as you generally have 60 days to dispute a charge).
aviv 8y ago
Dear OP, if this level of minutiae upsets you, building a business may not be for you.
nathan_f77 8y ago
I totally disagree with the conclusion, although I've struggled with some of these issues. The $25/mo fee is annoying, and I had to manually migrate some of my subscriptions. But none of these issues have been dealbreakers, and the process has been very streamlined and easy in general. I would highly recommend Stripe Atlas, especially if you're starting a company for the first time and don't really know what to do. Going through Stripe Atlas was like having an advisor who helps you with every step, and it's definitely worth any extra costs. I'd like to switch to a different bank in the future, but I'm not a US citizen and I'm living in a foreign country, so the $25/mo fee isn't too bad.
nailer 8y ago
> Stripe will create an account through SVB (Silicon Valley Bank) for you. You can go ahead and read the reviews on that bank yourself As an SVB customer: - Their UK experience, was, until recently, not updayted since about 2002. 8 point font, the entire width of the page, totally separate from the rest of their banking - They want things confirmed on 'company letterhead' - They have four different versions of 'balance' which makes things super confusing - No 'find as you type' search for transactions - No analytics - Their mobile app is incredible limited - They alerted me to a 700 USD fraudulent card charge, which, after I spent a week investigating, turned out to be a 7 USD card charge The people are great, but SVB sound like a new generation business bank, but they're really not. Pick Starling or Monzo or anyone else.
bborn 8y ago
Just want to disagree here. Atlas has been great for us, and we had some of the same issues ... moving accounts, closing SVB and moving over to Azlo, all of it went smoothly.
laverick 8y ago
Anyone know good SVB alternatives that don’t require US residence? Any that can be opened remotely?
ryanmercer 8y ago
>So if you already had some transactions (hope you do if you're forming a company) Erm, I wouldn't take a cent from a customer without being a proper company. Lack of legal protections, unnecessary tax complications etc. >Third problem, want to switch to Azlo bank so that at least you don't have to pay monthly fees? That's great except Azlo will tell you that you need to talk to Stripe to do that, Um, I'm not sure why you you thought Stripe or Azlo should do this for you, a random company can't close your company's bank account for you and open another account at another bank for your company. You open an account with Azlo, make the minimum deposit. Transfer the rest of the money from SVB and ask SVB to close the account, fill out any necessary paperwork. As far as banks in general, you can go to any bank of your choosing "I'd like to open a small business account" or "I'd like to open a business account" and they'll say "Great, sit right down! Do you have your..." and rattle off a list of paperwork and identification you need. Small business accounts rarely have minimum balance requirements or monthly fees either.

321 points by mikob 8y ago

qrush 8y ago

I've just started to use Stripe Atlas and currently waiting on an EIN thanks to the govt shutdown. So far their support has been very responsive and helpful, and even managed to hook up a referral code to a friend's account AND to a separate account of mine that is processing payments via Stripe Connect. I'm sorry you had a bad time, but just wanted to provide a counterpoint here.

edwinwee 8y ago

I'm really sorry for all the confusion. I work at Stripe and would like to dig into this more. Could you email me at edwin@stripe.com?

haisch 8y ago
In defense of OP I don't think his problems with Stripe Atlas are born out of any confusion.
- crankylinuxuser 8y ago
  Indeed. The "confusion" bit is pretty condescending. It reminds me of the similar bit of "I'm sorry you're upset." With that, you're not really sorry, and you're fake-apologizing for someone else's actions.
  - everdev 8y ago
    I think it's awesome a company cares enough to respond to dissatisfaction. Sometimes written words can land differently for different people, but I think it's a bit harsh to judge someone's attempt at help because they assumed there's some confusion. Sure, there are better words to use, but this outreach still puts their customer service at an A-level for me.
    - ovao 8y ago
      And, to be fair, the OP’s situation with getting the runaround between Stripe and the bank is “confusion”. It’s just that the confusion appears to be either on Stripe’s end or on the bank’s.
    - joshmn 8y ago
      I think it's great marketing. There are tons of people who don't have such public outlets — or are unaware of them — to raise their issues.
joshmn 8y ago
OP: In the past, edwinwee has offered this same sentiment only to later ignore me. I'm not sure if he got busy or if he's just trying to save face. Previous: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18081918 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18081918

lettergram 8y ago

I personally went through the Stripe Atlas beta, no regrets. At the time the AWS credits saved me thousands of dollars. (On year 2 or 3 now, I don't recall) In terms of what you're discussing though, I agree. Faced those same two issues. What I did: 1. Keep utilizing my other stripe account(s). I have multiple web fronts, and each has it's own stripe account. No issue there, actually zero funds go through the Stripe Atlas account. All the accounts are merged through one login, which is easy enough to see. 2. Closed the SVB (Silicon Valley Bank) account month two of the company. Opened an account with Capital One Spark Business, no minimum fees and the customer service has been good. Moved all my stripe accounts to dump into that account. Honestly, Stripe should really partner with a better bank. All Stripe does is provide an easy way to setup the C-Corp and help with some information. You're still in charge of your business. I did enjoy the suggestions and reminders from Stripe Atlas regarding filings.

mikob 8y ago
About 1, I think Stripe Atlas will help me handle accounting if all my transactions come through there. No? That's one of the reasons I bothered with the migration (other being just having a nice consolidation) Actually I use Capital One Spark Business for my other business. They're great but unfortunately not taking any new customers right now.

shafyy 8y ago

I've had a couple of friends use Atlas without any problems. I guess your's is also a kind of an edge case with all the switching etc. Hope they resolve it quickly! Another question: I also think that SVB sucks but is there a better alternative to it? I've heard of Azlo, but their services offering is not as broad as SVB's (e.g. no international transfers)?

nik736 8y ago
Azlo is not even a real bank.

rememberlenny 8y ago

I can't disagree more with the OP. I went through Stripe Atlas with an existing problem and didn't have any issues. I found the customer support incredible helpful. Whenever I had questions, I would always get a response within 24 hours. Even more so, I had times when I would get follow ups to on-going issues, making me feel like their customer support process was really solid. I originally signed up as a C-Corp, but realized I wanted to change to an LLC before the process was completed. The support staff helped me and got me on the way very quickly. I didn't have any issues with my banking partner. I was actually able to get my Azlo account started even before my incorporation documents for an EIN number were completed, which was very helpful. I'm not saying all of this other than because I strongly feel Atlas is a very good product. Similar to OP, I have incorporated before, and personally it was a total mess. The first time, I registered a Delaware C-Corp through another legal service I wont name, and found myself paying various costs to a Registered Agent, which was misleadingly introduced. Atlas does a much better job explaining the financial requirements around taxes, which I also didn't have properly explained the first time. Overall, I would strongly recommend Atlas - especially if you can get a discount through some startup program.

feistypharit 8y ago

I was looking at Atlas, but I don't live in Delaware, so I'd still have to deal with managing the business in my home state all myself. That's more forms and fees every year I have to do, in addition to the Delaware ones. In my view Atlas only solves half the problem (unless you've in Delaware)

edwinwee 8y ago
TBC, with Stripe Atlas, you get set up in Delaware, but you don’t have to live there. We help you deal with all the paperwork remotely.
- techsupporter 8y ago
  Aren’t businesses required to also register (as a “foreign” company) in the states where they do business? So if I’m sitting in Iowa doing business with my Delaware-formed business, Iowa still wants a registration?
  - zeckalpha 8y ago
    Yes

burlesona 8y ago

I've had a good experience with it, except that I agree the migrating to a new Stripe account was a big pain. It's really not clear to me why Stripe couldn't either (a) add Atlas to your existing account or (b) migrate your old account to the Atlas account. Either of those would have been very much better than the manual migration I did. However, now that it's long behind me, I do feel it makes things easier for tracking tax implications of stuff. The work I did testing things before incorporation is all sole-proprietor schedule C, whereas the stuff after incorporation is not. I imagine this is why Stripe has this rule, but it would have been nice if they'd just said so up front.

osrec 8y ago

I think Stripe's API is great, but the support has certainly suffered in comparison to the early days. More automated, unhelpful emails than I'd like. Maybe it's inevitable that support and general helpfulness suffer when you grow as quickly as they have?

edwinwee 8y ago
Our CSAT metrics have shown support has been improving over the years (particularly since we rolled out 24/7 phone + chat)—but if there’s any case that we’ve felt short on, I’d love to investigate. Can you share some more about those unhelpful emails? If you can forward those to me that’d be useful (edwin@stripe.com).
- Silhouette 8y ago
  Would those metrics give you any sort of warning about merchants who no longer tend to contact Stripe support when they have problems? Seeing fewer or no support requests from a merchant could mean everything is working well, but it could also mean that people aren't telling you any more when things are not working well.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

spectre256 8y ago

Fellow Stripe Atlas company founder here. SVB is a bit annoying, but really $25/month is probably not worth your time to worry about unless the company is VERY small. Even in our situation, where we are a 2-person consulting company that isn't taking any outside investment, and have to run pretty lean (since we only get to eat and have a house every month if we do enough business to cover it), it's not worth our time to switch. But at a higher level, the Stripe Atlas (and Stripe in general) people have been SO responsive and helpful that I'm surprised they haven't sorted this out yet. It looks like they've even popped up in this thread, so I hope and suspect that will happen soon. With the AWS credits and how generally easy it was, I would definitely recommend it to others who are looking.

coleca 8y ago
I looked at using Stripe Atlas to start up a consulting company and they told me not to bother because that would fall into the category of "computer services" which they consider a high risk business and they aren't interested in dealing with it. How were you able to get them to accept you?
- spectre256 8y ago
  Well, we are bootstrapping a SaaS as well, which is much more Stripe-friendly (we take payments via Stripe). Either that, or I got lucky and they didn't notice. If you are doing purely consulting you probably don't need Stripe Atlas, as the Stripe integration and AWS credits likely won't help you. But if you are doing consulting, I also recommend turning your consulting expertise into a SaaS somehow :)

ed 8y ago

Just wanted to chime in because I've been using Atlas for over a year and am very happy with both the service and the team at Stripe. SVB sucks, true. But $300/yr for a bank account should not be a deal breaker. You'll pay way more than this just to operate the corporation and stay alive. I think I pay around $800/yr just to keep the corporation running (almost non-existent accounting, filing fees and franchise taxes to Delaware). And now that I'm a C Corp I have payroll taxes in addition to salary (~$2k/mo). As always, be sure you really need a corporation before you create one. Most of the tax benefits you get with a corporation (e.g. write-offs), you get as a sole proprietor too. Atlas also made filing 2017 taxes trivial, I never even spoke to an accountant, it was a very smooth process.

mikob 8y ago
I don't think 300/year for a bank is itself a deal breaker. Just if it's a crappy bank and I can spend a couple hours fixing that, then it's well worth the 300/yr savings + having a better bank. The trouble is Stripe Atlas has not really been working with me and adding an extra layer of complication. Support team is responsive but issues remain with the product.

deleted 8y ago

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briandear 8y ago

That’s nonsense. I switched my bank to Chase in my Stripe account settings, it took seconds.

cue232s 8y ago
Exactly. A non-issue.
joeblau 8y ago
Just wondering if that was for a C-Corp or LLC? I'm asking because I'm looking at using Atlas in the next few weeks.
ryanmercer 8y ago
OP doesn't understand banking. They want Stripe to close their company's account at bank A (that is not Stripe) and create a new account for their company at bank B (that is not Stripe) not realizing that is THEIR responsibility.

eries 8y ago

I’ve probably helped ten people start a company using Stripe Atlas over the past two years. I know some of them have grown frustrated with SVB and switched banks, but I don’t know any of them who’ve had a bad experience like OP did. Just thought I’d offer these extra data points

eeeeeeeeeeeee 8y ago

I completely disagree with this post. I setup an LLC late last year and it was a very pleasant experience via Atlas. They clearly show a checklist of what you need to do, or what you're waiting on. They email you along the process, or if they need anything from you. If they need additional verification (IDs) they reach out to you. I would definitely do it again through Atlas and I've told others to do the same.

vkaku 8y ago

I would stop using Stripe if they start dictating what bank I can use. I use Stripe Atlas. I agree that the SVB minimum checking account fee is quite high. So I will look to move to Azlo. If Stripe tells me I can't do that, I'll start asking customers to wire my payments to the bank directly. I think that I am happy with Stripe handling the paperwork and basic payments for me (and to compensate them for that), but I'd always want my freedom to run things without extraneous terms.

ovao 8y ago
Stripe does not require you to use any particular bank. Setting up an account for you is simply part of the Atlas process.

imroot 8y ago

I've went through Stripe Atlas as well -- and didn't have any issues whatsoever; When we decided that we didn't want to be a C-Corp in DE, we made it before the actual setup, however, when we ran into issues with our process, their support folks were very very helpful and it was zero hassle switching banks.

cue232s 8y ago

Stripe Atlas was pretty good for me. The most organized corporation I've created yet. I also stopped using and paying SVB, because I forgot about the account and actually never used by account for a whole year so they closed it. I opened an BOA account without issue. My only problem is that the mobile app isn't great for ATLAS yet.

nubela 8y ago

Can you recommend which other company you used to incorporate an LLC in Delaware?

ctdean 8y ago
https://zenbusiness.com/ https://zenbusiness.com/ will create an LLC (I don't know what state) and then create a bank account if you want with Radius Bank in Boston. I've never used Zen myself, but they and Radius have been good partners.

lukethomas 8y ago

I've been using Stripe Atlas since the beta and I have experienced a few issues similar to the OP. However, I've also saved a ton of time because Stripe emails me about pending issues/changes that I probably wouldn't have known about. SVB is ok - the fee is annoying and their UI kind of sucks, but I haven't switched yet.

abcd_f 8y ago

Mods, can you patch the post to expand the bit.ly link? https://bit.ly/2HhbXjZ https://bit.ly/2HhbXjZ -> https://gist.github.com/mikob/3cd3d141c60596ee50c0ab2603b5bdb9 https://gist.github.com/mikob/3cd3d141c60596ee50c0ab2603b5bd...

dang 8y ago
Done now. This kind of thing is best sent to us at hn@ycombinator.com. Random-access mentions in the threads get random access by us, meaning we don't see most of them.

joss82 8y ago

Did you try using https://priceur.com https://priceur.com ? It simplifies stripe account migration (and also multi currency pricing). It's free for now. Enjoy! Disclaimer: I built it.

tptacek 8y ago

and surprise Stripe will tell you that... https://bit.ly/2HhbXjZ https://bit.ly/2HhbXjZ ... they'll do anything they can to help you, will support you over live chat and email, but they're not Azlo Bank and can't open an account there for you? That sounds pretty... reasonable?

joatmon-snoo 8y ago
I clicked on the front page link expecting to see some interesting horror story. Instead, all I'm seeing is an OP who doesn't understand how the world works, and multiple voluntary, glowing, customer testimonials. This is fabulous marketing for Stripe.
mikob 8y ago
I never said customer support was bad, in fact they're very responsive. I am pointing out how Azlo (Stripe's partnered bank) is telling me it's a Stripe problem and Stripe telling me it's a Azlo problem. It makes more sense to me that if I'm opening a bank with Stripe Atlas, that I should go through Stripe, as they're the ones who created my SVB bank. Azlo asked me to go through Stripe. The Stripe Atlas product has some very rough edges as you'll see others also experienced in the comments.
- mrunkel 8y ago
  I'll be accused by GP of victim blaming here, but this generally occurs when one organization is being told something slightly different than other organization. Methinks you are probably overcomplicating things at Azlo. Open the account with your org that was created via Atlas at Azlo, stripe should have nothing to do with that. Inform stripe this is the new bank account. You have the controlling interest in the org that was created via Stripe Atlas don't you?

allenleein 8y ago

[Foreign founder] As a foreign founder. I personally went through the Stripe Atlas last month, no regrets at all. The whole process took longer than I expected but it's not their problems (passport name, pic issues...), and I have to say they have pretty solid customer service. Every time I have any issues, they replied my email within 12 hours.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

markonen 8y ago

1) It makes perfect sense that a new account is created and that transactions pre-incorporation are not automatically imported. Your new company is required to have accurate books; you can't pretend that transactions executed before the company existed (ie. by you personally?) were actually executed by the company you've later incorporated. 2) SVB seems to be nobody's favorite bank, but it's quite clear to me that they have been chosen for their willingness to bank for every Atlas customer—including companies founded and operated by non-U.S. persons—without requiring an in-person visit. If this is not a problem for you then consider yourself lucky for having other choices. 3) Your third problem sounds like you've identified a better bank, but they have not accepted you as a client. How is that an issue with Stripe Atlas? They have simply identified and worked with a bank who was willing accept you.

alexpetralia 8y ago
I would recommend: Harvard Business Services + BofI bank for anyone looking for a Stripe alternative. I've had no issues so far and it's much cheaper ($150 for registered agent, free online banking).
- sah2ed 8y ago
  Links? Please. Thanks!
  - no1youknowz 8y ago
    Harvard Business Services: https://www.delawareinc.com/ https://www.delawareinc.com/ BofI bank: https://www.axosbank.com https://www.axosbank.com Would prefer a more concise answer by the OP though, with steps to how he created his LLC.
- ianamartin 8y ago
  I started using Bank of the Internet (now Axos) for my personal stuff after Simple got shitty. I've been extremely pleased with them. If I were starting a business today, I would absolutely go to them first.

hberg 8y ago

This is the reason I created the startup checklist (https://github.com/leonar15/startup-checklist https://github.com/leonar15/startup-checklist)... so founders could know step by step what needs to be done to set up their companies. Since you'll eventually have to understand all the legal aspects of operating a business, you might as well start off that way.

etaioinshrdlu 8y ago

SVB has a reputation as having really bad tech, a bit overly beaurocratic and annoying in general. With one saving grace, they are known to be highly tolerant of unusual situations. Might help if you are running a weird startup.

ymolodtsov 8y ago
Their online banking is probably not the greateast but it does its job and also they tend to trust you, don’t ask tons of stupid questions about what are you wiring and their customer support is top notch. All from personal experience.
- etaioinshrdlu 8y ago
  My experience is that their customer support was very very slow and rather unhelpful. I had much more pleasant experiences with Chase which in my opinion is the least terrible big bank in the US.

etaioinshrdlu 8y ago

My biggest problem with Stripe is that roughly 50% of transactions are declined! This is a huge business problem. Not uncommon either for Stripe users. I suspect (without proof) that if you are a big trusted entity, Stripe and the whole financial system probably greases the wheels a bit to improve your success rate...

edwinwee 8y ago
Oof, that is a problem...a decline rate like that is not normal. Have you seen our guide on reducing your decline rate? https://stripe.com/docs/declines https://stripe.com/docs/declines If you email in (https://support.stripe.com/contact https://support.stripe.com/contact), we also have a declines team that can investigate (I'm also happy to help at edwin@stripe.com).
- Silhouette 8y ago
  Oof, that is a problem...a decline rate like that is not normal. Does Stripe publish any statistics on what is normal for decline rates, perhaps broken down by categories like payment method, whether it's a first payment or a subsequent subscription payment, how effective the various automatic retry strategies are at saving an initially failed charge, etc?
  - edwinwee 8y ago
    We haven't yet, but that's a neat idea...
SkyPuncher 8y ago
> My biggest problem with Stripe is that roughly 50% of transactions are declined! Are you guys actually collecting all of the relevant information for an account, like billing info? We've only had a single failed payment in the past year and it was an issue at the card's bank rather than Stripe.
- etaioinshrdlu 8y ago

arihant 8y ago

If you're in the US, you can just walk into a bank of your choice and open a account. Stripe doesn't care what you do with your SVB account. Just replace it with your new account number in Stripe payment settings and you're done. This is not an endorsement, but I've been hearing good things about First Republic Bank. If you're not in the US, let me first point out that Azlo doesn't even support international transfers. They do not have login system for multiple founders. I'm very sure they don't work with ITIN and require SSN to open an account. Also, only one debit card. No checkbooks. It appears that you somehow expect every step of the process to be smooth as butter. But nothing about running a startup will be like that. Transferring subscriptions from one Stripe account to another should be the least of your problems when porting an existing business with transactions to a c-corp. Talk to a lawyer and an accountant to understand what you got yourself into. Since you're trying to migrate transactions before the incorporation into the company account, you should talk to them earliest you can.

trapexit 8y ago
First Republic's customer service is top notch. My accounts can't possibly generate much revenue for them, but they still treat me like royalty whenever I call/email them or walk into the office. The only thing I have to complain about is that (as of a year ago) they don't offer an overdraft line of credit for small business accounts.
- BostonEnginerd 8y ago
  Their student loan refinancing products are pretty fantastic. I highly recommend anyone with a large student loan to look them up!

monochromatic 8y ago

I won’t do business with Stripe in general, due to their anti-rights stance in refusing firearm/weapon transactions. https://stripe.com/us/restricted-businesses https://stripe.com/us/restricted-businesses

adrianh 8y ago
You just gave me another reason to like Stripe.
Confusion 8y ago
I hope you are trolling.
- monochromatic 8y ago
  Payment processing should be agnostic as to the subject of payment, as long as no laws are being broken. How would you like it if Visa suddenly decided that you couldn’t use their cards for buying alcohol?
  - dominicr 8y ago
    Lots of credit card companies have restrictions on where they can be used. Cryptocurrency is an obvious example. The problem is that there are a lot of laws around gun purchase, especially globally, and the legal repercussions (federal and civil) of an illegal gun sale can be a LOT more than the repercussions of selling illegal beer.
  - ryanmercer 8y ago
    Here's the thing, and keep in mind I'm very pro 2a. It has nothing to do with 'oh gun are bad' 'oh drugs are bad' 'oh porn is bad' it does however have everything to do with 'high risk items lead to much higher chargeback/fraud rates and we'd just as soon as not deal with that unpredictability and general headache'. That is why 'high risk' processors charge a considerably higher % and per transaction fee and generally hold a percentage (I've personally seen as high as 50%) of every transaction for 1 month or longer (I saw an extreme of one holding 50%, releasing 25% after one month and the other 25% after 3 months before releasing it to the business as you generally have 60 days to dispute a charge).

aviv 8y ago

Dear OP, if this level of minutiae upsets you, building a business may not be for you.

nathan_f77 8y ago

I totally disagree with the conclusion, although I've struggled with some of these issues. The $25/mo fee is annoying, and I had to manually migrate some of my subscriptions. But none of these issues have been dealbreakers, and the process has been very streamlined and easy in general. I would highly recommend Stripe Atlas, especially if you're starting a company for the first time and don't really know what to do. Going through Stripe Atlas was like having an advisor who helps you with every step, and it's definitely worth any extra costs. I'd like to switch to a different bank in the future, but I'm not a US citizen and I'm living in a foreign country, so the $25/mo fee isn't too bad.

nailer 8y ago

> Stripe will create an account through SVB (Silicon Valley Bank) for you. You can go ahead and read the reviews on that bank yourself As an SVB customer: - Their UK experience, was, until recently, not updayted since about 2002. 8 point font, the entire width of the page, totally separate from the rest of their banking - They want things confirmed on 'company letterhead' - They have four different versions of 'balance' which makes things super confusing - No 'find as you type' search for transactions - No analytics - Their mobile app is incredible limited - They alerted me to a 700 USD fraudulent card charge, which, after I spent a week investigating, turned out to be a 7 USD card charge The people are great, but SVB sound like a new generation business bank, but they're really not. Pick Starling or Monzo or anyone else.

bborn 8y ago

Just want to disagree here. Atlas has been great for us, and we had some of the same issues ... moving accounts, closing SVB and moving over to Azlo, all of it went smoothly.

laverick 8y ago

Anyone know good SVB alternatives that don’t require US residence? Any that can be opened remotely?

ryanmercer 8y ago

>So if you already had some transactions (hope you do if you're forming a company) Erm, I wouldn't take a cent from a customer without being a proper company. Lack of legal protections, unnecessary tax complications etc. >Third problem, want to switch to Azlo bank so that at least you don't have to pay monthly fees? That's great except Azlo will tell you that you need to talk to Stripe to do that, Um, I'm not sure why you you thought Stripe or Azlo should do this for you, a random company can't close your company's bank account for you and open another account at another bank for your company. You open an account with Azlo, make the minimum deposit. Transfer the rest of the money from SVB and ask SVB to close the account, fill out any necessary paperwork. As far as banks in general, you can go to any bank of your choosing "I'd like to open a small business account" or "I'd like to open a business account" and they'll say "Great, sit right down! Do you have your..." and rattle off a list of paperwork and identification you need. Small business accounts rarely have minimum balance requirements or monthly fees either.