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That's really cool. Although I wish there were more vegan food that didn't try to replicate non-vegan textures and flavors. Imitation can only be playing catch-

That's really cool. Although I wish there were more vegan food that didn't try to replicate non-vegan textures and flavors. Imitation can only be playing catch-up. The best vegan and vegetarian food does its own thing.

giancarlostoro 8y ago
Well in this case it allows you to eat a burger if you like burgers. Me personally I eat vegan, vegetarian and non-vegan / non-vegetarian foods so it doesn't bother me as much.
the_gastropod 8y ago
Hear hear! These kinds of foods I think are handy for people transitioning to a more vegetarian/vegan diet, when they still crave "traditional" foods like hamburgers and hotdogs. But I think they also goof up public perceptions of what good veg* food is.
- Jenz 8y ago
  As a non vegetarian (yet?), I must a agree.
picodguyo 8y ago
I say whatever sells more non-meat burgers is good. Telling a die-hard meat eater to just eat a mushroom or some eggplant is not going to be effective.
- MarsAscendant 8y ago
  It's generally difficult to dissuade someone of their core beliefs. That's why political discourse often gets dirty and bloody. Language, too, oddly enough.
- leereeves 8y ago
  I'm a die-hard meat eater and I'd eat a lot of a tasty veggie sandwich patty. I need more veggies in my diet but it's hard to get enough without cooking. It doesn't have to be a fake burger. Just something tasty for a healthy daily dose of vegetables. For me, soy doesn't qualify. It's one of the most common crops in the world and there's already enough of it in other things I eat.
  - auiya 8y ago
    > I need more veggies in my diet but it's hard to get enough without cooking How so? On face value this feels like an excuse for simply making poor diet choices. If I'm mistaken, then... cook?
    - zapzupnz 8y ago
      Not everybody has the time or inclination. There's something vaguely nagging mother-in-law-ish about simply being told to stop being lazy and cook. If I don't want to cook, that's my business. In the modern world, when both adults in a family are working, not cooking shouldn't be a barrier to healthy eating, nor should it be considered mutually inclusive with eating junk.
      - auiya 8y ago
        > not cooking shouldn't be a barrier to healthy eating, nor should it be considered mutually inclusive with eating junk. Nobody suggested healthy eating requires one to cook. There's a myriad of places everywhere that serve healthy food, so if you're foregoing veggies, it's your choice. s/cheeseburger/salad/g; done.
  - dfxm12 8y ago
    I need more veggies in my diet but it's hard to get enough without cooking. Even if you're unwilling or unable to cook, there are plenty of vegetables that are still delicious and nutritious raw. I suggest baby carrots, tomatoes, avocado, and peppers. If you're willing to microwave, there are a whole host of "microwave in bag" options as well...
  - white-flame 8y ago
    If you're not cooking, but are concerned about health, how are you eating that you somehow escape vegetables? The thing is, "healthy" is often associated with freshly prepared foods. The non-cooking-yourself option for (hopefully) freshly prepared food would be reasonable usually sit-down restaurants, most of which offer plenty of vegetables because they're cheaper than the main course. And of course, delivery is an option. (Obviously, "freshly prepared" as framed in opposition to pre-prepared with additives, handling, and ingredient selection focused more on the taste & texture surviving longer term delivery and storage.)
- pfranz 8y ago
  I'm just a sample size of one, but I'm willing to eat it if it tastes good. I think the biggest problem is habit (or I guess that overlaps with culture). People are hungry and see a burger for a decent price and know it will be acceptable. A lot of foods you can just add chicken or ground beef to. I've had some fantastic vegan food, but the only vegan food that's a commodity for me is Indian food or faux-meat products. So convincingly good faux-meat is probably the easiest way to move people. My big problem is that most meals without meat I'm not satiated. This also happens when the main protein is fish. For salads I hear a bunch of people joke that you get tired of eating before you get full. I also think this is habit for me. I'm not sure if meat alternatives address this.
  - kraig 8y ago
    I think a lot of the satiated feeling is a mental thing, as I noticed this a lot when I first went vegan, I would eat a lot of fake meats and veganized meals of things I was used to. After time your can adjust away from that and you can feel like you ate a filling meal even if was just a large salad or a decent sandwich.
Vinnl 8y ago
What kind of vegan food are you thinking of? I mean, things like nuts, beans, etc. already exist. What requirements should "new" food fulfil? Providing the right nutrients?
- mcbits 8y ago
  Snack food. I'd love a snack food producer that only makes really healthy products that taste amazing, but which doesn't actually market anything as being healthy. They don't have to mimic existing snacks and probably shouldn't - nobody wants a "fake" snack when they're feeling gluttonous. I'm not ideologically vegan, but I do think vegan food science could lead the way here.
  - Vinnl 8y ago
    Hmm, but I take it these snacks should be different from, say, olives, or biscuits with avocado, or something like that? And if so, in what way? (And of course, in the non-healthy category, there are things like crisps or popcorn for when you're actually gluttonous.)
    - mcbits 8y ago
      Different in such a way that people who pride themselves on binging on junk food because they're all grown up and you can't tell them what to do will be tricked into eating healthy anyway.
      - Vinnl 8y ago
        Ah, right. I'd like to see that happen regardless of whether it's vegan or not - though I agree that the vegan market is probably in a good position to take the lead there.
      - rebuilder 8y ago
        I think that's going to be difficult, vegan or not. For one, most snacks tend to be really high in calories. I think that's not just a coincidence.
colordrops 8y ago
> I wish there were more vegan food that didn't try to replicate non-vegan textures and flavors. Isn't that most vegan food already? I.e. vegetables
- danharaj 8y ago
  When I cook, I cook around my choice of meat. If I'm making something vegetarian I have a completely different mindset. Compare the use of vegetables in American cuisine versus vegetarian Indian cuisine.
- moate 8y ago
  There are so many hyper-processed vegan items available marketed as "Milks", "Cheeses","Burgers" and "Sausages" etc. It's a huge business. As someone mentioned above, food is a part of your culture. And there are many aspects of people's food cultures that they'd prefer not to get rid of. Someone may hate animals dying, but love the social gathering of a back yard party with burgers on the grill. These people may want to replicate this experience with a bean burger. Someone else has fond memories of their grandma's spaghetti and meatballs, and needs to figure out some way to replicate it.
nickik 8y ago
Then you will just create a new market, not directly replace an existing market. The creater of the Impossible Burger said he could create new types of meat. I think of it as meat of animals that have never evolved. However that's not their focus.
ergothus 8y ago
As a vegetarian that is a fairly picky eater, and (a decade ago) a big meat eater, I have a different perspective. When you don't enjoy, say, bell peppers, it is really nice to have some meat-like textures and tastes. As we get closer to having textures that do more than taste/feel like highly processed meat, it gets better. Which doesnt contradict your point that veg/vegan options have taste and experiences that are worthwhile in their own right, but I shall forever be glad of the time I had pakora thatd recaptured the taste of KFC, as well as other chewy options to round out the relatively small set of options my tastebuds find palatable. I certainly wish it was different, but from my perspective veggies are out there for anyone to find. Meat tastes/textures are not out there for the vegs/vegans yet. Plus, the easiest way to reduce meat consumption is to provide drop-in replacements for those that are seeking that taste/texture in ways that done make them regret the choice.
screye 8y ago
Being born in India, I've had the privilege to eat vegetarian meals that can rival even the best meat based meal. While I welcome 'impossible' meat replacements, it is funny that the meat reduction movement is looking at such impractical and immature products instead of simpler solutions such as bringing veg friendly cuisines to the fore. I am opposed to advocating for cold-turkey veganism though. Milk products and eggs are great meat substitutes, and the lack of both makes entire cuisines inaccessible.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  In my opinion Indian cuisine is the way to go for vegetarians. There are a ton of great dishes that make vegetables and beans shine without trying to imitate meat. I like veggie burgers from time to time but I don't think meat imitation products are good long term path.
- Firadeoclus 8y ago
  Food is a cultural and emotional issue. As much as some people like to try new dishes, others prefer to stick to what they know and love, give or take a few variations. What you eat may be part of your identity and culture, and giving that up for something foreign that's supposedly better isn't easy. Seemingly small steps are an easier sell.
- atonse 8y ago
  Being of Indian descent, I might be biased. But Indian cuisine is the only cuisine I'm aware of where being vegetarian isn't a compromise in the creativity, quality, and sheer flavors available to you. For other cuisines, where centuries of culinary creativity mostly went towards making meat, this is the only viable approach to weaning us off growing animals for meaty foods.
  - nate_meurer 8y ago
    This white guy agrees :)
  - FooBarWidget 8y ago
    There are a ton of delicious Chinese vegetable dishes. I've always found it weird that Americans insist on meat being the only delicious food out there.
leaf_house 8y ago
Just out of curiosity, are you vegan/veg? I hear this point of view a lot online but I’ve rarely heard it within the vegan community where people are usually pretty honest about craving junk food/burgers etc every now and again. Not trying to call you out, genuinely curious.
- danharaj 8y ago
  I'm neither but I have been vegetarian for extended periods of time. When I've lapsed out of vegetarianism it's been because it's easier for me to throw together a satisfying meal with meat. If I take about twice as long I can make an equally satisfying vegetarian meal. When I try going vegetarian again I'll be sure to get better at throwing together meals first.
MarsAscendant 8y ago
There was this one girl I was dating for a short while. She was vegan, for her own reasons, and so she'd eat her own meals. I asked if I could try some one time. The tastes of the various kinds of meatballs she was have were interesting, at the very least. I'd never had anything like it. One particular kind – can't remember the name of the veggie it was made of – was so good I made my own later. A unique taste with its own unique texture: soft, dry, crumbly, yet condensing nicely after chewing. I'm looking forward to meat imitations. I'd try one eagerly if I had the chance. I like the taste of meat, and it would let me have meat without the massive animal husbandry ecosystem required to support it. What's not to like? In the meantime, I'm sure there are tons of things I'd enjoy, that I haven't tried yet, which are also completely vegan.
novia 8y ago
I used to feel this way until I tried an impossible burger (1.0, I presume). I thought the only way to allow the more carnivorous of us to have a satisfying meal while eliminating animal suffering was to grow petri dish meat. Impossible burgers seriously nail the taste and texture and nutritional proportions. It also seems like it will be much more cost effective to create them than the aforementioned petri dish burgers. When I tried an impossible burger it seriously made me excited for the future. The imitation meats from before had some serious problems, but just trust me, you need to try this one if you haven't already. For context: I am a red blooded American meat eater.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  I find this interesting. I tried an Impossible Burger a while ago and I didn't find it to taste like meat at all.
  - novia 8y ago
    Since they are only available in restaurants (until March 2019), this may have something to do with the preparation method used. I've read in reviews of the product that if you overcook it, such that all the pink color in the middle of the patty is eliminated, it does not taste as good. I've had it in burger patty form on a bun with lettuce, tomato, pickles, ketchup, mustard, and mayo. I've also had it crumbled up in vegan lasagna. Both ways tasted great.
    - graphitezepp 8y ago
      I have absolutely loved every impossible burger in patty form I've been served, it's certainly not fooling me as real meat but its good enough it doesn't have to, but every time I've had it crumbled its been dry and fairly unpleasant. You can definitely ruin it in preparation.
    - jrickert 8y ago
      Makes plenty of sense. Real beef doesn't taste as good when you overcook it too.
paulcole 8y ago
> Although I wish there were more vegan food that didn't try to replicate non-vegan textures and flavors There are. They're called vegetables, fruits, nuts, beans, and grains.
- tylershuster 8y ago
  I agree. The original statement was kind of silly. Vegans basically say "You don't need to eat meat" to which a population of meat-eaters say "But I like the way it tastes and feels" so vegans create this burger, and then a population of meat-eaters says "I wish you didn't just try to copy meat."
  - tracker1 8y ago
    I'm allergic to legumes and most vegetarian sources of protein are either VERY incomplete and/or legume based. I also don't do well with grains. I definitely feel better only eating meat + greens, with minimal other veg and sometimes cheese.
black-tea 8y ago
I used to think that, but the thing is "non-vegan textures" is by definition a superset of "vegan textures" anyway. At the moment it's a strict superset so why not make the sets equal?
amyjess 8y ago
So, I'm a die-hard meat eater, and I categorically refuse to ever give up meat, but there is some seriously fantastic vegetarian food out there based on this exact principle. There's a Beijing-style street food place in a suburb of Dallas. If you're ever in the area and want to check it out, it's called Fatni BBQ. My absolute favorite items on the menu are both vegetarian, and I would gladly go there and get only non-meat items because they're _that damn good_. Item one is what the menu calls "hibachi tofu". It's a basket of tofu that's all been seared on the grill. It has all the wonderful tastes and textures I associate with fried cheese, except it's not quite as gooey. I'm lucky it comes in a giant basket, because I will devour that so fast. Item two is what the menu calls "hibachi gluten", which is a skewer containing several pieces of fried wheat gluten. Most of the pieces are cut in a spiral pattern, but there's usually one end piece on each skewer that's shaped kind of like an arrowhead. I seriously feel sorry for the celiacs of the world, because this stuff is genuinely addictive. It tastes like it's made of both meat and fried dough at the same time. Each skewer is about $1, and I never order less than five. And I still leave wanting more but having to cut myself off because I can spend way too much there if I'm not careful. Oh, and every single item on their menu is dipped in a cumin-forward mix of spices that's just amazing. They're actually not a vegetarian place. They have lots of meat items on their menu, but honestly they're just not nearly as good as the tofu or the gluten.
dfxm12 8y ago
Are you really limited in vegan options that don't try to replicate non vegan textures and flavors? Where do you shop and eat? Do they not have a section for fruits and veggies? Do they not have dry goods like rice and beans?
- danharaj 8y ago
  Those are ingredients you listed. I'm talking about prepared meals. Most vegan restaurants that aren't Indian around here use such ingredients to imitate non vegan dishes.
zapzupnz 8y ago
I agree that the best vegan and vegetarian food does its own thing, but for me, a pescatarian, the idea of not having the delicious taste and texture of salmon slowly baked in a cast iron pan for four hours whilst being basted with oil every half an hour … my tongue just disallows it. It's not yet a sacrifice I'm willing to make until I encounter a viable alternative, and so efforts like these are a step further not just for people like me but for the general population. Fortunately, fish is fairly easy to imitate with soy, but nothing quite beats that melt-in-your-mouth quality of slowly baked salmon. That's about the only meat I eat anymore, though I still experiment with substitutions. Usually some kind of tofu and a thick-but-viscous sauce of some kind, but even then it's flavoured with dashi.
- RobotCaleb 8y ago
  Tell me more about this delicious salmon you cook.
  - zapzupnz 8y ago
    Basically we just roast it slowly in an oven in a cast iron pan on a low heat for a long-ish period of time. The skin gets crispy, but the inside seems like it's melting as you push your fork through it. I don’t know the exact details but I’m sure we got the recipe online, so it’s likely Googleable.
- nixonpjoshua1 8y ago
  Your viable alternative is on the way https://www.fastcompany.com/40559474/this-salmon-burger-tastes-like-the-real-thing-but-its-actually-fungi-and-algae https://www.fastcompany.com/40559474/this-salmon-burger-tast... https://primeroots.com/ https://primeroots.com/ Disclaimer: I am a cofounder of this company, we have recently rebranded to Prime Roots from Terramino
  - zapzupnz 8y ago
    Though the texture of your burger doesn't look quite like what I have in mind, I'm curious to try it. Do you provide to New Zealand? A lot of these products are only available in the States, I find. Aspiring vegetarians and vegans down under have to wait.
kraig 8y ago
I think this type of thing is more important to get non-vegan people to eat less animals than to provide options to vegans. Anyone who has been eating vegan or vegetarian for some time is already going to appreciate the nuances in foods, while a great meat substitute is important for the meat eaters who think they can't have a meal without some "protein" on the plate.
teh_klev 8y ago
UK/EU citizen here (also having written this with a bottle of wine inside me :)) You know, I'm not a vegan, nor even a vegetarian. But as I've gotten older (I'm knocking on 52 - and god damn used to love a nicely cooked fillet steak!) I've found my eating habits tending more towards vegetarian. The last red meat I ate was a year ago...not through health reasons, but because I've kinda gone off it. I still eat some chicken, but even then it's a dwindling part of my diet. I'm not an extremist, but as I've gotten older, I've begun to find the idea of eating another living being more than slightly repugnant. It's not that I've succumbed to vegan ideology, but I kinda got here by myself. I'm lucky to live in a rural area and bump into cows and sheep all the time. This may sound a bit odd, but I see them and interact with them and one day thought what nice affectionate(?)/curious animals and then, boom! would I kill and eat my cats? I even recently realised that most of the clothes that I wear are mostly synthetic or cotton based, even the boots I wear. The thought of walking around in another being's slaughtered and dead skin kinda irked me for a few years so I try to buy "man-made" foot wear now. I think the trick with becoming vegetarian (a starting point) and onto becoming vegan (though I still love eggs; if we treat egg layers nice, and if we treat cows nice can't we still have eggs and milk for a while?) we need to learn how to season and spice our meals to make them appealing. I'm about 85% of the way there were it not for some dairy products, and in a rural area having better availability to a wider range of vegetables - which believe it or not doesn't happen. And also where I can buy individual carrots, onions, sweet potato by weight....etc (I'm single - don't need a bag of 20 carrots!). I'm also not sure, philosophically, about the idea of creating synthetic meats to remind us of what it was like to eat a factory slaughtered animal - it seems like creating a video game to satisfy some needs to be 18th century slave owners. If we had better knowledge about how to make vegetables more inviting, and more available, we wouldn't need this. I ate a vegetarian lasagne the other day, it was glorious. Sure some dairy products were involved but no cows died upside down in a factory being bolted through their skulls...but yes I am aware of the factory farming of milk cows to the tremendous detriment of their health and comfort. Becoming vegan is a hard thing. I still crave Gressingham "chinese duck", pancakes and hoisin (I use my own, their's is shit).....but I am striving towards this. I genuinely don't think synthetic meats aid this cause. I am also trying to become a better human and not exploit other living beings for my tastebud sensory gratification.
- 8y ago
itomato 8y ago
Southern Indian vegetarian cuisine is outstanding in this regard.
i_cant_speel 8y ago
I eat meat but my girlfriend is vegetarian, so I end up eating a lot of vegetarian meals. For some reason, the vast majority of fake meats turn me off. To me, it feels like I am eating spoiled meat. I much prefer vegetarian meals that don't attempt to seem like the real thing. But if this leads to less total meat consumption for the population, I'm all for it.

giancarlostoro 8y ago

Well in this case it allows you to eat a burger if you like burgers. Me personally I eat vegan, vegetarian and non-vegan / non-vegetarian foods so it doesn't bother me as much.

the_gastropod 8y ago

Hear hear! These kinds of foods I think are handy for people transitioning to a more vegetarian/vegan diet, when they still crave "traditional" foods like hamburgers and hotdogs. But I think they also goof up public perceptions of what good veg* food is.

Jenz 8y ago
As a non vegetarian (yet?), I must a agree.

picodguyo 8y ago

I say whatever sells more non-meat burgers is good. Telling a die-hard meat eater to just eat a mushroom or some eggplant is not going to be effective.

MarsAscendant 8y ago
It's generally difficult to dissuade someone of their core beliefs. That's why political discourse often gets dirty and bloody. Language, too, oddly enough.
leereeves 8y ago
I'm a die-hard meat eater and I'd eat a lot of a tasty veggie sandwich patty. I need more veggies in my diet but it's hard to get enough without cooking. It doesn't have to be a fake burger. Just something tasty for a healthy daily dose of vegetables. For me, soy doesn't qualify. It's one of the most common crops in the world and there's already enough of it in other things I eat.
- auiya 8y ago
  > I need more veggies in my diet but it's hard to get enough without cooking How so? On face value this feels like an excuse for simply making poor diet choices. If I'm mistaken, then... cook?
  - zapzupnz 8y ago
    Not everybody has the time or inclination. There's something vaguely nagging mother-in-law-ish about simply being told to stop being lazy and cook. If I don't want to cook, that's my business. In the modern world, when both adults in a family are working, not cooking shouldn't be a barrier to healthy eating, nor should it be considered mutually inclusive with eating junk.
    - auiya 8y ago
      > not cooking shouldn't be a barrier to healthy eating, nor should it be considered mutually inclusive with eating junk. Nobody suggested healthy eating requires one to cook. There's a myriad of places everywhere that serve healthy food, so if you're foregoing veggies, it's your choice. s/cheeseburger/salad/g; done.
- dfxm12 8y ago
  I need more veggies in my diet but it's hard to get enough without cooking. Even if you're unwilling or unable to cook, there are plenty of vegetables that are still delicious and nutritious raw. I suggest baby carrots, tomatoes, avocado, and peppers. If you're willing to microwave, there are a whole host of "microwave in bag" options as well...
- white-flame 8y ago
  If you're not cooking, but are concerned about health, how are you eating that you somehow escape vegetables? The thing is, "healthy" is often associated with freshly prepared foods. The non-cooking-yourself option for (hopefully) freshly prepared food would be reasonable usually sit-down restaurants, most of which offer plenty of vegetables because they're cheaper than the main course. And of course, delivery is an option. (Obviously, "freshly prepared" as framed in opposition to pre-prepared with additives, handling, and ingredient selection focused more on the taste & texture surviving longer term delivery and storage.)
pfranz 8y ago
I'm just a sample size of one, but I'm willing to eat it if it tastes good. I think the biggest problem is habit (or I guess that overlaps with culture). People are hungry and see a burger for a decent price and know it will be acceptable. A lot of foods you can just add chicken or ground beef to. I've had some fantastic vegan food, but the only vegan food that's a commodity for me is Indian food or faux-meat products. So convincingly good faux-meat is probably the easiest way to move people. My big problem is that most meals without meat I'm not satiated. This also happens when the main protein is fish. For salads I hear a bunch of people joke that you get tired of eating before you get full. I also think this is habit for me. I'm not sure if meat alternatives address this.
- kraig 8y ago
  I think a lot of the satiated feeling is a mental thing, as I noticed this a lot when I first went vegan, I would eat a lot of fake meats and veganized meals of things I was used to. After time your can adjust away from that and you can feel like you ate a filling meal even if was just a large salad or a decent sandwich.

Vinnl 8y ago

What kind of vegan food are you thinking of? I mean, things like nuts, beans, etc. already exist. What requirements should "new" food fulfil? Providing the right nutrients?

mcbits 8y ago
Snack food. I'd love a snack food producer that only makes really healthy products that taste amazing, but which doesn't actually market anything as being healthy. They don't have to mimic existing snacks and probably shouldn't - nobody wants a "fake" snack when they're feeling gluttonous. I'm not ideologically vegan, but I do think vegan food science could lead the way here.
- Vinnl 8y ago
  Hmm, but I take it these snacks should be different from, say, olives, or biscuits with avocado, or something like that? And if so, in what way? (And of course, in the non-healthy category, there are things like crisps or popcorn for when you're actually gluttonous.)
  - mcbits 8y ago
    Different in such a way that people who pride themselves on binging on junk food because they're all grown up and you can't tell them what to do will be tricked into eating healthy anyway.
    - Vinnl 8y ago
      Ah, right. I'd like to see that happen regardless of whether it's vegan or not - though I agree that the vegan market is probably in a good position to take the lead there.
    - rebuilder 8y ago
      I think that's going to be difficult, vegan or not. For one, most snacks tend to be really high in calories. I think that's not just a coincidence.

colordrops 8y ago

> I wish there were more vegan food that didn't try to replicate non-vegan textures and flavors. Isn't that most vegan food already? I.e. vegetables

danharaj 8y ago
When I cook, I cook around my choice of meat. If I'm making something vegetarian I have a completely different mindset. Compare the use of vegetables in American cuisine versus vegetarian Indian cuisine.
moate 8y ago
There are so many hyper-processed vegan items available marketed as "Milks", "Cheeses","Burgers" and "Sausages" etc. It's a huge business. As someone mentioned above, food is a part of your culture. And there are many aspects of people's food cultures that they'd prefer not to get rid of. Someone may hate animals dying, but love the social gathering of a back yard party with burgers on the grill. These people may want to replicate this experience with a bean burger. Someone else has fond memories of their grandma's spaghetti and meatballs, and needs to figure out some way to replicate it.

nickik 8y ago

Then you will just create a new market, not directly replace an existing market. The creater of the Impossible Burger said he could create new types of meat. I think of it as meat of animals that have never evolved. However that's not their focus.

ergothus 8y ago

As a vegetarian that is a fairly picky eater, and (a decade ago) a big meat eater, I have a different perspective. When you don't enjoy, say, bell peppers, it is really nice to have some meat-like textures and tastes. As we get closer to having textures that do more than taste/feel like highly processed meat, it gets better. Which doesnt contradict your point that veg/vegan options have taste and experiences that are worthwhile in their own right, but I shall forever be glad of the time I had pakora thatd recaptured the taste of KFC, as well as other chewy options to round out the relatively small set of options my tastebuds find palatable. I certainly wish it was different, but from my perspective veggies are out there for anyone to find. Meat tastes/textures are not out there for the vegs/vegans yet. Plus, the easiest way to reduce meat consumption is to provide drop-in replacements for those that are seeking that taste/texture in ways that done make them regret the choice.

screye 8y ago

Being born in India, I've had the privilege to eat vegetarian meals that can rival even the best meat based meal. While I welcome 'impossible' meat replacements, it is funny that the meat reduction movement is looking at such impractical and immature products instead of simpler solutions such as bringing veg friendly cuisines to the fore. I am opposed to advocating for cold-turkey veganism though. Milk products and eggs are great meat substitutes, and the lack of both makes entire cuisines inaccessible.

maxxxxx 8y ago
In my opinion Indian cuisine is the way to go for vegetarians. There are a ton of great dishes that make vegetables and beans shine without trying to imitate meat. I like veggie burgers from time to time but I don't think meat imitation products are good long term path.
Firadeoclus 8y ago
Food is a cultural and emotional issue. As much as some people like to try new dishes, others prefer to stick to what they know and love, give or take a few variations. What you eat may be part of your identity and culture, and giving that up for something foreign that's supposedly better isn't easy. Seemingly small steps are an easier sell.
atonse 8y ago
Being of Indian descent, I might be biased. But Indian cuisine is the only cuisine I'm aware of where being vegetarian isn't a compromise in the creativity, quality, and sheer flavors available to you. For other cuisines, where centuries of culinary creativity mostly went towards making meat, this is the only viable approach to weaning us off growing animals for meaty foods.
- nate_meurer 8y ago
  This white guy agrees :)
- FooBarWidget 8y ago
  There are a ton of delicious Chinese vegetable dishes. I've always found it weird that Americans insist on meat being the only delicious food out there.

leaf_house 8y ago

Just out of curiosity, are you vegan/veg? I hear this point of view a lot online but I’ve rarely heard it within the vegan community where people are usually pretty honest about craving junk food/burgers etc every now and again. Not trying to call you out, genuinely curious.

danharaj 8y ago
I'm neither but I have been vegetarian for extended periods of time. When I've lapsed out of vegetarianism it's been because it's easier for me to throw together a satisfying meal with meat. If I take about twice as long I can make an equally satisfying vegetarian meal. When I try going vegetarian again I'll be sure to get better at throwing together meals first.

MarsAscendant 8y ago

There was this one girl I was dating for a short while. She was vegan, for her own reasons, and so she'd eat her own meals. I asked if I could try some one time. The tastes of the various kinds of meatballs she was have were interesting, at the very least. I'd never had anything like it. One particular kind – can't remember the name of the veggie it was made of – was so good I made my own later. A unique taste with its own unique texture: soft, dry, crumbly, yet condensing nicely after chewing. I'm looking forward to meat imitations. I'd try one eagerly if I had the chance. I like the taste of meat, and it would let me have meat without the massive animal husbandry ecosystem required to support it. What's not to like? In the meantime, I'm sure there are tons of things I'd enjoy, that I haven't tried yet, which are also completely vegan.

novia 8y ago

I used to feel this way until I tried an impossible burger (1.0, I presume). I thought the only way to allow the more carnivorous of us to have a satisfying meal while eliminating animal suffering was to grow petri dish meat. Impossible burgers seriously nail the taste and texture and nutritional proportions. It also seems like it will be much more cost effective to create them than the aforementioned petri dish burgers. When I tried an impossible burger it seriously made me excited for the future. The imitation meats from before had some serious problems, but just trust me, you need to try this one if you haven't already. For context: I am a red blooded American meat eater.

maxxxxx 8y ago
I find this interesting. I tried an Impossible Burger a while ago and I didn't find it to taste like meat at all.
- novia 8y ago
  Since they are only available in restaurants (until March 2019), this may have something to do with the preparation method used. I've read in reviews of the product that if you overcook it, such that all the pink color in the middle of the patty is eliminated, it does not taste as good. I've had it in burger patty form on a bun with lettuce, tomato, pickles, ketchup, mustard, and mayo. I've also had it crumbled up in vegan lasagna. Both ways tasted great.
  - graphitezepp 8y ago
    I have absolutely loved every impossible burger in patty form I've been served, it's certainly not fooling me as real meat but its good enough it doesn't have to, but every time I've had it crumbled its been dry and fairly unpleasant. You can definitely ruin it in preparation.
  - jrickert 8y ago
    Makes plenty of sense. Real beef doesn't taste as good when you overcook it too.

paulcole 8y ago

> Although I wish there were more vegan food that didn't try to replicate non-vegan textures and flavors There are. They're called vegetables, fruits, nuts, beans, and grains.

tylershuster 8y ago
I agree. The original statement was kind of silly. Vegans basically say "You don't need to eat meat" to which a population of meat-eaters say "But I like the way it tastes and feels" so vegans create this burger, and then a population of meat-eaters says "I wish you didn't just try to copy meat."
- tracker1 8y ago
  I'm allergic to legumes and most vegetarian sources of protein are either VERY incomplete and/or legume based. I also don't do well with grains. I definitely feel better only eating meat + greens, with minimal other veg and sometimes cheese.

black-tea 8y ago

I used to think that, but the thing is "non-vegan textures" is by definition a superset of "vegan textures" anyway. At the moment it's a strict superset so why not make the sets equal?

amyjess 8y ago

So, I'm a die-hard meat eater, and I categorically refuse to ever give up meat, but there is some seriously fantastic vegetarian food out there based on this exact principle. There's a Beijing-style street food place in a suburb of Dallas. If you're ever in the area and want to check it out, it's called Fatni BBQ. My absolute favorite items on the menu are both vegetarian, and I would gladly go there and get only non-meat items because they're _that damn good_. Item one is what the menu calls "hibachi tofu". It's a basket of tofu that's all been seared on the grill. It has all the wonderful tastes and textures I associate with fried cheese, except it's not quite as gooey. I'm lucky it comes in a giant basket, because I will devour that so fast. Item two is what the menu calls "hibachi gluten", which is a skewer containing several pieces of fried wheat gluten. Most of the pieces are cut in a spiral pattern, but there's usually one end piece on each skewer that's shaped kind of like an arrowhead. I seriously feel sorry for the celiacs of the world, because this stuff is genuinely addictive. It tastes like it's made of both meat and fried dough at the same time. Each skewer is about $1, and I never order less than five. And I still leave wanting more but having to cut myself off because I can spend way too much there if I'm not careful. Oh, and every single item on their menu is dipped in a cumin-forward mix of spices that's just amazing. They're actually not a vegetarian place. They have lots of meat items on their menu, but honestly they're just not nearly as good as the tofu or the gluten.

dfxm12 8y ago

Are you really limited in vegan options that don't try to replicate non vegan textures and flavors? Where do you shop and eat? Do they not have a section for fruits and veggies? Do they not have dry goods like rice and beans?

danharaj 8y ago
Those are ingredients you listed. I'm talking about prepared meals. Most vegan restaurants that aren't Indian around here use such ingredients to imitate non vegan dishes.

zapzupnz 8y ago

I agree that the best vegan and vegetarian food does its own thing, but for me, a pescatarian, the idea of not having the delicious taste and texture of salmon slowly baked in a cast iron pan for four hours whilst being basted with oil every half an hour … my tongue just disallows it. It's not yet a sacrifice I'm willing to make until I encounter a viable alternative, and so efforts like these are a step further not just for people like me but for the general population. Fortunately, fish is fairly easy to imitate with soy, but nothing quite beats that melt-in-your-mouth quality of slowly baked salmon. That's about the only meat I eat anymore, though I still experiment with substitutions. Usually some kind of tofu and a thick-but-viscous sauce of some kind, but even then it's flavoured with dashi.

RobotCaleb 8y ago
Tell me more about this delicious salmon you cook.
- zapzupnz 8y ago
  Basically we just roast it slowly in an oven in a cast iron pan on a low heat for a long-ish period of time. The skin gets crispy, but the inside seems like it's melting as you push your fork through it. I don’t know the exact details but I’m sure we got the recipe online, so it’s likely Googleable.
nixonpjoshua1 8y ago
Your viable alternative is on the way https://www.fastcompany.com/40559474/this-salmon-burger-tastes-like-the-real-thing-but-its-actually-fungi-and-algae https://www.fastcompany.com/40559474/this-salmon-burger-tast... https://primeroots.com/ https://primeroots.com/ Disclaimer: I am a cofounder of this company, we have recently rebranded to Prime Roots from Terramino
- zapzupnz 8y ago
  Though the texture of your burger doesn't look quite like what I have in mind, I'm curious to try it. Do you provide to New Zealand? A lot of these products are only available in the States, I find. Aspiring vegetarians and vegans down under have to wait.

kraig 8y ago

I think this type of thing is more important to get non-vegan people to eat less animals than to provide options to vegans. Anyone who has been eating vegan or vegetarian for some time is already going to appreciate the nuances in foods, while a great meat substitute is important for the meat eaters who think they can't have a meal without some "protein" on the plate.

teh_klev 8y ago

UK/EU citizen here (also having written this with a bottle of wine inside me :)) You know, I'm not a vegan, nor even a vegetarian. But as I've gotten older (I'm knocking on 52 - and god damn used to love a nicely cooked fillet steak!) I've found my eating habits tending more towards vegetarian. The last red meat I ate was a year ago...not through health reasons, but because I've kinda gone off it. I still eat some chicken, but even then it's a dwindling part of my diet. I'm not an extremist, but as I've gotten older, I've begun to find the idea of eating another living being more than slightly repugnant. It's not that I've succumbed to vegan ideology, but I kinda got here by myself. I'm lucky to live in a rural area and bump into cows and sheep all the time. This may sound a bit odd, but I see them and interact with them and one day thought what nice affectionate(?)/curious animals and then, boom! would I kill and eat my cats? I even recently realised that most of the clothes that I wear are mostly synthetic or cotton based, even the boots I wear. The thought of walking around in another being's slaughtered and dead skin kinda irked me for a few years so I try to buy "man-made" foot wear now. I think the trick with becoming vegetarian (a starting point) and onto becoming vegan (though I still love eggs; if we treat egg layers nice, and if we treat cows nice can't we still have eggs and milk for a while?) we need to learn how to season and spice our meals to make them appealing. I'm about 85% of the way there were it not for some dairy products, and in a rural area having better availability to a wider range of vegetables - which believe it or not doesn't happen. And also where I can buy individual carrots, onions, sweet potato by weight....etc (I'm single - don't need a bag of 20 carrots!). I'm also not sure, philosophically, about the idea of creating synthetic meats to remind us of what it was like to eat a factory slaughtered animal - it seems like creating a video game to satisfy some needs to be 18th century slave owners. If we had better knowledge about how to make vegetables more inviting, and more available, we wouldn't need this. I ate a vegetarian lasagne the other day, it was glorious. Sure some dairy products were involved but no cows died upside down in a factory being bolted through their skulls...but yes I am aware of the factory farming of milk cows to the tremendous detriment of their health and comfort. Becoming vegan is a hard thing. I still crave Gressingham "chinese duck", pancakes and hoisin (I use my own, their's is shit).....but I am striving towards this. I genuinely don't think synthetic meats aid this cause. I am also trying to become a better human and not exploit other living beings for my tastebud sensory gratification.

8y ago

itomato 8y ago

Southern Indian vegetarian cuisine is outstanding in this regard.

i_cant_speel 8y ago

I eat meat but my girlfriend is vegetarian, so I end up eating a lot of vegetarian meals. For some reason, the vast majority of fake meats turn me off. To me, it feels like I am eating spoiled meat. I much prefer vegetarian meals that don't attempt to seem like the real thing. But if this leads to less total meat consumption for the population, I'm all for it.