6 ms·

I really thought a Volt like car would be the answer. Electric for most of the year, but a gas powered motor to go for those vacations away. I don't know why th

by rb808 8y ago

I really thought a Volt like car would be the answer. Electric for most of the year, but a gas powered motor to go for those vacations away. I don't know why that wasn't more popular.

sbradford26 8y ago
So one of the major perks of electric cars are fewer moving parts. Once you add a gas engine to the car, you increase the weight, remove space for batteries, add cost, and finally add a lot more complexity and moving parts. Now the gas engine added convenience but personally it doesn't add enough to compensate for the downsides. But I would not rule out plug in hybrids, from what I have read GM stopped making it since it was a sedan which are not selling great for them. But also because the newer bolt platform is a better base for an EV or PHEV, since it was designed from the ground up to run on electric motors.
- petre 8y ago
  So add a small gas turbine range extender. Like the BMW i3’s range extender but use a small gas turbine instead of a scooter engine. Also make that optional. No need for a conventional ICE drivetrain.
- WorldMaker 8y ago
  Yeah, GM killing the Volt seems more a weird side effect of GM's manufacturing plant shell game than an intentional strategy. The Volt was original intended to be the "savior" of the venerable Hamtramck plant, as it was the future of what was to be built there. The original goal was to make more of the cars over time at Hamtramck resemble the Volt, which was closer to a cross-over in G1. The short-sighted decision for cost cutting in the G2 Volt was to push it more proper sedan-like to make it more like everything else that Hamtramck was producing. So the Volt shutting down was further short-sighted side effect of GM killing all sedans/Hamtramck. Obvious rumors are that GM is already in the works on a new cross-over PHEV. It's dumb that the sedan-ification of the Volt brand between G1 and G2 probably means that it will be yet another new brand instead of just the obvious Volt G3. (It's also a dumb shame that GM didn't actually save Hamtramck in what could have been a smart move of electrifying more of it and moving it all more cross-over-esque according to the original Volt plan.)
  - ams6110 8y ago
    The Volt is dead? Hm. There are still some sitting at the lot at my local Chevy dealer. Didn't know that it had been killed.
    - WorldMaker 8y ago
      GM shut down all sedan manufacturing including the Volt (and Cruze and others), which described before the Volt was probably more of an accidental bystander than an intentional part of GM's electric strategy. The whole thing was a short term financial move that some Shareholders just about demanded after Ford did similar and eliminated all their sedans. Americans "don't buy" American sedans right now and so all American automotive manufacturing is focusing solely on SUVs, Trucks, and Cross-Overs as of 2018, again. Everything about this cycle is cynical and short-sighted, as Americans are still buying European and Japanese sedans at basically the same rates as always, and the SUV/Truck market (and maybe the Cross-Over market too) and its gleefully (to Shareholder earnings) high margins rises and falls directly in proportion to gasoline costs.
      - dragonwriter 8y ago
        > Americans "don't buy" American sedans right now and so all American automotive manufacturing is focusing solely on SUVs, Trucks, and Cross-Overs as of 2018, again. GM is keeping the electric Bolt, which is not an SUV, Truck, or Crossover. The Volt, as a hybrid, doesn't fit their long term strategy, so wasn't spared the axe coming down due to the short-term situation with the sedan market.
        WorldMaker 8y ago
        The Bolt is closer to a cross-over than a true sedan (which mostly just goes to show the categories are dumb and another reason "no one buys sedans" is a stupid statement because the distinctions are more gray than black-and-white), but more importantly has never been manufactured in the sedan-mostly Hamtramck plant. GM turned around and admitted that PHEV hybrids are still in their current long term strategy, to expect at least a "true" cross-over version in the near future, if not also SUV and Truck plans. Like I said before, the problem with the Volt seemed to be that G2 was nothing but a sedan made in the sedan plant that GM wanted to drop, not that it was a hybrid or electric. I still think that Volt G1's form factor would have been spared because it would have been easier to retool it next to the Bolt or in another cross-over facility.
- marcosdumay 8y ago
  Maybe people can rent those just when they need.
tshannon 8y ago
Yeah I was disappointed when they discontinued the Volt. I wonder if it was just too complicated compared to having a separate gas engine like most plugin hybrids today.
- freehunter 8y ago
  Super inefficient to haul around a gasoline engine and all the associated parts for the rare situation that you might need it. With gasoline powered cars you can haul around extra weight because range isn't an issue on gasoline powered cars. On electric cars, range is a make-or-break.
bluGill 8y ago
Paying to haul an engine around when you don't need it is using extra energy for nothing. I do think that a market for trailers [possibly rentals] that have a small generator and some trunk space could exist. When people go on road trips they not only need the engine which is normally not needed, but they also want to have extra luggage. 4 suitcases and a small generator can fit on a trailer and run your electric car all day, leaving space in the trunk for other things.
- nradov 8y ago
  The majority of drivers really aren't qualified to tow a trailer, not even a small one. It's going to be a mess. Just imagine the chaos of SF Bay Area residents trying to tow trailers up I-80 for a winter skiing road trip.
  - learc83 8y ago
    You don't even need an actual trailer, just something like a hitch mounted cargo platform. https://www.google.com/search?q=trailer+hitch+platform&client=firefox-b-1-ab&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi7suzXh9zfAhXNJt8KHXVXA6YQ_AUIDygC&biw=1344&bih=641 https://www.google.com/search?q=trailer+hitch+platform&clien...
    - bluGill 8y ago
      Most cars do not have the suspension system to handle that. The average family is often already putting their car at the max load before adding suitcases. (for ride quality reasons engineers design them that way) A trailer putting most of the mass on a different axle is much better answer.
      - learc83 8y ago
        We're talking about an alternative to a car that is already designed to carry an extra motor around all the time on the existing axles.
solidr53 8y ago
Plug-in Hybrid EV (PHEV) There are loads of them available and many are popular, heck even Toyota Prius has a model that has this capability (Prius Prime). I am on the market for buying a PHEV, because fast charger availability in my country is very limited (which is weird given that we are super green electric giants), so pure EV is going to be hard unless I have a backup car for road trips. Kia Optima is the one I like the most, but I may end up buying Tesla Model 3 and just ship it through the Atlantic (yes, we also don't have Tesla in my country) and have a backup car, or rent/borrow a car when doing road trips
searine 8y ago
As a volt owner, I agree. I love this car to death, especially because I'm not in a living situation that would make at-home EV charging easy (apartment). PHEVs are perfect. I drive EV 80% of the time but still have all the convenience of gas. One day, when I buy a house, and charging networks are a bit more mature I would love a BEV, but right now PHEV's are a great inbetween.
jsight 8y ago
I thought the same thing. But back when it was introduced, batteries were really expensive. Now, a battery pack for a ~250 mile electric car would cost ~6k. That still isn't ideal for long distances, but it would make a fantastic commuter car and an occasional long distance trip would only become inconvenient, not impossible. Effectively it covers the same space and the cost increase to make a serial hybrid (like the Volt) is no longer economic.
rconti 8y ago
Hybrids are a stupid hack, but a necessary stupid hack. I'm no tree hugger, but I went straight from ICE to EV. I don't want to haul around a battery pack in addition to a gas motor (or vice versa), but it's insane that everyone* drives around cars that simply turn their kinetic energy into heat every time you want to slow down. I've always hated the hybrid driving experience, but it's a necessary evil in the bridge to full EV world for those who can't go EV today.
ams6110 8y ago
The range balance is a little off. The Volt electric range is about 40 miles or so? That would barely get me to work and home. If I have other errands, I'm on the gas engine. Something like a Volt with a ~100 mile electric range would be ideal. Probably diesel too, because the fuel keeps much longer than gasoline. Or maybe Propane/CNG.

by rb808 8y ago

I really thought a Volt like car would be the answer. Electric for most of the year, but a gas powered motor to go for those vacations away. I don't know why that wasn't more popular.

sbradford26 8y ago

So one of the major perks of electric cars are fewer moving parts. Once you add a gas engine to the car, you increase the weight, remove space for batteries, add cost, and finally add a lot more complexity and moving parts. Now the gas engine added convenience but personally it doesn't add enough to compensate for the downsides. But I would not rule out plug in hybrids, from what I have read GM stopped making it since it was a sedan which are not selling great for them. But also because the newer bolt platform is a better base for an EV or PHEV, since it was designed from the ground up to run on electric motors.

petre 8y ago
So add a small gas turbine range extender. Like the BMW i3’s range extender but use a small gas turbine instead of a scooter engine. Also make that optional. No need for a conventional ICE drivetrain.
WorldMaker 8y ago
Yeah, GM killing the Volt seems more a weird side effect of GM's manufacturing plant shell game than an intentional strategy. The Volt was original intended to be the "savior" of the venerable Hamtramck plant, as it was the future of what was to be built there. The original goal was to make more of the cars over time at Hamtramck resemble the Volt, which was closer to a cross-over in G1. The short-sighted decision for cost cutting in the G2 Volt was to push it more proper sedan-like to make it more like everything else that Hamtramck was producing. So the Volt shutting down was further short-sighted side effect of GM killing all sedans/Hamtramck. Obvious rumors are that GM is already in the works on a new cross-over PHEV. It's dumb that the sedan-ification of the Volt brand between G1 and G2 probably means that it will be yet another new brand instead of just the obvious Volt G3. (It's also a dumb shame that GM didn't actually save Hamtramck in what could have been a smart move of electrifying more of it and moving it all more cross-over-esque according to the original Volt plan.)
- ams6110 8y ago
  The Volt is dead? Hm. There are still some sitting at the lot at my local Chevy dealer. Didn't know that it had been killed.
  - WorldMaker 8y ago
    GM shut down all sedan manufacturing including the Volt (and Cruze and others), which described before the Volt was probably more of an accidental bystander than an intentional part of GM's electric strategy. The whole thing was a short term financial move that some Shareholders just about demanded after Ford did similar and eliminated all their sedans. Americans "don't buy" American sedans right now and so all American automotive manufacturing is focusing solely on SUVs, Trucks, and Cross-Overs as of 2018, again. Everything about this cycle is cynical and short-sighted, as Americans are still buying European and Japanese sedans at basically the same rates as always, and the SUV/Truck market (and maybe the Cross-Over market too) and its gleefully (to Shareholder earnings) high margins rises and falls directly in proportion to gasoline costs.
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > Americans "don't buy" American sedans right now and so all American automotive manufacturing is focusing solely on SUVs, Trucks, and Cross-Overs as of 2018, again. GM is keeping the electric Bolt, which is not an SUV, Truck, or Crossover. The Volt, as a hybrid, doesn't fit their long term strategy, so wasn't spared the axe coming down due to the short-term situation with the sedan market.
      - WorldMaker 8y ago
        The Bolt is closer to a cross-over than a true sedan (which mostly just goes to show the categories are dumb and another reason "no one buys sedans" is a stupid statement because the distinctions are more gray than black-and-white), but more importantly has never been manufactured in the sedan-mostly Hamtramck plant. GM turned around and admitted that PHEV hybrids are still in their current long term strategy, to expect at least a "true" cross-over version in the near future, if not also SUV and Truck plans. Like I said before, the problem with the Volt seemed to be that G2 was nothing but a sedan made in the sedan plant that GM wanted to drop, not that it was a hybrid or electric. I still think that Volt G1's form factor would have been spared because it would have been easier to retool it next to the Bolt or in another cross-over facility.
marcosdumay 8y ago
Maybe people can rent those just when they need.

tshannon 8y ago

Yeah I was disappointed when they discontinued the Volt. I wonder if it was just too complicated compared to having a separate gas engine like most plugin hybrids today.

freehunter 8y ago
Super inefficient to haul around a gasoline engine and all the associated parts for the rare situation that you might need it. With gasoline powered cars you can haul around extra weight because range isn't an issue on gasoline powered cars. On electric cars, range is a make-or-break.

bluGill 8y ago

Paying to haul an engine around when you don't need it is using extra energy for nothing. I do think that a market for trailers [possibly rentals] that have a small generator and some trunk space could exist. When people go on road trips they not only need the engine which is normally not needed, but they also want to have extra luggage. 4 suitcases and a small generator can fit on a trailer and run your electric car all day, leaving space in the trunk for other things.

nradov 8y ago
The majority of drivers really aren't qualified to tow a trailer, not even a small one. It's going to be a mess. Just imagine the chaos of SF Bay Area residents trying to tow trailers up I-80 for a winter skiing road trip.
- learc83 8y ago
  You don't even need an actual trailer, just something like a hitch mounted cargo platform. https://www.google.com/search?q=trailer+hitch+platform&client=firefox-b-1-ab&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi7suzXh9zfAhXNJt8KHXVXA6YQ_AUIDygC&biw=1344&bih=641 https://www.google.com/search?q=trailer+hitch+platform&clien...
  - bluGill 8y ago
    Most cars do not have the suspension system to handle that. The average family is often already putting their car at the max load before adding suitcases. (for ride quality reasons engineers design them that way) A trailer putting most of the mass on a different axle is much better answer.
    - learc83 8y ago
      We're talking about an alternative to a car that is already designed to carry an extra motor around all the time on the existing axles.

solidr53 8y ago

Plug-in Hybrid EV (PHEV) There are loads of them available and many are popular, heck even Toyota Prius has a model that has this capability (Prius Prime). I am on the market for buying a PHEV, because fast charger availability in my country is very limited (which is weird given that we are super green electric giants), so pure EV is going to be hard unless I have a backup car for road trips. Kia Optima is the one I like the most, but I may end up buying Tesla Model 3 and just ship it through the Atlantic (yes, we also don't have Tesla in my country) and have a backup car, or rent/borrow a car when doing road trips

searine 8y ago

As a volt owner, I agree. I love this car to death, especially because I'm not in a living situation that would make at-home EV charging easy (apartment). PHEVs are perfect. I drive EV 80% of the time but still have all the convenience of gas. One day, when I buy a house, and charging networks are a bit more mature I would love a BEV, but right now PHEV's are a great inbetween.

jsight 8y ago

I thought the same thing. But back when it was introduced, batteries were really expensive. Now, a battery pack for a ~250 mile electric car would cost ~6k. That still isn't ideal for long distances, but it would make a fantastic commuter car and an occasional long distance trip would only become inconvenient, not impossible. Effectively it covers the same space and the cost increase to make a serial hybrid (like the Volt) is no longer economic.

rconti 8y ago

Hybrids are a stupid hack, but a necessary stupid hack. I'm no tree hugger, but I went straight from ICE to EV. I don't want to haul around a battery pack in addition to a gas motor (or vice versa), but it's insane that everyone* drives around cars that simply turn their kinetic energy into heat every time you want to slow down. I've always hated the hybrid driving experience, but it's a necessary evil in the bridge to full EV world for those who can't go EV today.

ams6110 8y ago

The range balance is a little off. The Volt electric range is about 40 miles or so? That would barely get me to work and home. If I have other errands, I'm on the gas engine. Something like a Volt with a ~100 mile electric range would be ideal. Probably diesel too, because the fuel keeps much longer than gasoline. Or maybe Propane/CNG.