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Ask HN: Is web development still a viable career choice?

• factorialboy 8y ago
  Yes of course. Define web dev tho. It's a broad field. There are plenty of gigs out there if you focus on JavaScript and it's frameworks, python, go, Ruby or node. Python, go, c# and Java can open 'enterprise' doors for you.
  • giancarlostoro 8y ago
    Curious about Go in enterprise web development, have any widely established companies gone full in on Go? Like migrated from Java or other stacks. I'm mostly a C# / Python web developer at my current job, and I'm diving into Go. Might even start suggesting it for future projects to see if it gets approved once I feel reasonably proficient in Go that is.
    • sureaboutthis 8y ago
      Recently a headhunter told me a couple of large companies have switched departments entirely to Go, in my area, but only hire people who "are really into Go", meaning lots of experience and knowledge. The companies, iirc, were Monsanto (now Bayer) and Mastercard.
      • beefalo 8y ago
        Go still seems pretty niche here. Even the companies you mention are still mostly using Java, but I do know of teams using Go on certain projects at those places.
• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• thedevindevops 8y ago
  By not taking the formal degree path, you've chosen the harder option but it's not impossible! Look to startups and freelance work until you build up a track record and preferably a portfolio.
• zachlatta 8y ago
  Yup. People hire people who can solve problems that create business value. Web development is and will continue to be a huge source of business value.
• sultanofswing 8y ago
  While the terms are interchangeable I would focus your efforts on becoming a Software Engineer (with a specialization in Front End). I say this in an era of bootcamp grads, online micro degrees Udemy courses etc. where you can now study and 'become a web developer in 3 months etc.'. It's true, you likely can learn enough about Javascript / frameworks / etc to build web applications in that period of time, but your overall knowledge and ability to draw inferences between web dev and other areas of CS will be severely lacking. This isn't to poo-poo your path (I myself am a bootcamp grad), more hindsight as part of my journey. What you are doing now is what most would likely call a 'top-down' path. Build some applications, work on some projects, learn one language all for the sake of building a portfolio. This is great! But it is only a piece of the puzzle. I would highly suggest you sprinkle in some 'bottom-up' learning as well (taking an algorithms class, or something fundamental to CS) and trying to draw the connections between what you are learning in the two domains. I know that was a bit of rambling so to more directly answer your questions and concerns: Q: "I have been self-learning for around six months and still have not found a solid path to follow." A: It is likely that self-learning is not cutting it for you. It sounds to me like you need structure. This could take the form of a bootcamp or micro degree or something more involved (slower) and academic... like a bachelors degree with projects mixed in. All have their advantages and disadvantages. At a high level: - A good bootcamp will require you to be there in person, with fellow students who are on the same path. You will have structured learning and so will meander less. You will leave a good bootcamp having gotten out what you put in (ie if you slacked off they will not hold your hand) but may land a job. You will have spent a good chunk of money and even if you land a job you will have to fill in a lot of gaps. - Micro degrees (like from Udemy) same caveats as the bootcamp apply but with swings. Will likely be far cheaper, but with less support, and likely less guaranteed outcomes. I haven't looked in a while but it's rare that I find people who have landed jobs doing these programs, while I can find multiple 'good' bootcamp grads who end up at many 'top' tech companies. - If you go the University route you will have to amp everything up to the nth degree. You will spend more time + money. The effort that you put in will also matter A LOT (ie from what I've heard some people do the bare minimum CS work to pass classes, but never do interesting projects, push for good internships etc so they graduate and can't land jobs). It, however, my belief that if done right this can be the best possible option. A lot of bootcampers severely underestimate the importance of foundational CS concepts, these will be the first people in trouble during a recession or if there is a major technology shift. Q: "Six months sounds like a lot but realistically it has been a few solid weeks of learning..." A: Six months is not a lot of time to learn almost anything. Let alone a year, or two etc. Especially if that learning has been very undirected (it sounds like you are meandering a lot). I know you are in a rush to be gainfully employed in a new career, but you shouldn't emphasize the time you've spent so much. The best engineers I've worked with are 15+ years into their careers and still think they are idiots. Find a more structure path for learning, and don't beat yourself up over the time you're taking to learn anything. Good learning and understanding takes time. Q: "Is the Web Dev job market in a good enough state that I should risk more time and money?" A: Yes, the market is still quite good for anything engineering related. Frontend, Fullstack, Backend you name it. Companies need smart people who can code and understand the systems they are working on. However like I said you should develop your skills so that if the current definition of a "Web Dev" changes in the next few years you can easily move onto the next thing. That means developing a love of learning and really understanding the core concepts that tie all of these seemingly disparate engineering fields together.
• usgroup 8y ago
  Yes it is. You can use job market pricing to work out demand surplus to make yourself feel confident you’re investing in something worthwhile . Email in profile if you want to know more.
• 1_player 8y ago
  As a sibling commenter said, define web developer first. I can see two viable, yet very different definitions: 1. Frontend web engineer: Versed in HTML, CSS, modern Javascript libraries such as React, Vue, Angular. This is a programming role first and foremost, better paying than #2, and what I would suggest focusing on. 2. "Classic web developer": Versed in HTML, CSS and just enough JS/jQuery. Knows the inside out of some CMS such as Wordpress. Not recommended, yet there are a TON of small companies and clients that just need a small website or ecommerce site. A friend of mine fits this role, I wouldn't define him a programmer by any stretch of the word, yet makes a living adapting Wordpress or Magento into functional websites.
  • ninefoxgambit 8y ago
    I really like how you defined these roles. #1 pays more these days and startups and sf companies want actual front end engineers. But there is still a world of work out there for the classic web developer or "web designer" as we used to call them. In every town and city you have small agencies and web shops building a range of smb to mid size sites. Squarespace, wix and some wordpress plugins are chewing into this market thou.
  • andybak 8y ago
    How about "web developer who thinks heavy client-side frameworks are a bad idea"?
    • constantlm 8y ago
      It's all about using the correct tool for the job.
    • scarface74 8y ago
      You can think however you wish - and I agree with you - but if you want to be competitive in the modern job market as a web developer, you have to be fluent in client side frameworks.
      • andybak 8y ago
• muzani 8y ago
  Web dev is a better career choice than ever. Services are developed enough that you can just connect to one another without having to custom build anything. Frameworks have become complex, creating a kind of entry barrier where dedicated developers can make good money. You can also go deeper down the optimization path if you want, building things like better compression systems or more efficient ways of pulling information.
• gesman 8y ago
  Solving [business] problems is a viable career choice. Web development could be solving someone's essential business problem or totally non-essential for someone else. The key is to find the customer for whom whatever you're doing will solve essential business problem. Quite often web development is exactly what customer needs but he won't call it this way. He won't use this wording. He won't look for web developer. He won't pay for web developer. But if you approach customer by speaking customer's language and showing customer how you can solve his problem - the result could be way more win-win and productive. You won't hire an expert in "connecting wooden boards with nails" but you'll more likely to hire an expert in "building houses" to build your own house. That's an idea.
  • avar 8y ago
    This is just bypassing OP's question. You could similarly ask if plumbing, plastering or tiling is still a viable career choice in construction, or whether one should focus on general carpentry. You'd then try to work on projects where your construction specialty is seen to be more valuable than not, that goes to your comment. But that's an entirety different question than whether a specialty should be pursued, and if so what specialty. E.g. in this case whether it's still a good move for a new developer to start out his career by focusing on web dev v.s. say native mobile dev, or mainframe development or whatever.
    • mschaef 8y ago
      For whatever it's worth, their answer was pretty close to my immediate reaction when I saw the question. Maybe another way of phrasing the answer is that no, I don't think 'Web Dev' is a viable career option. This becomes even more true when viewed on a time scale of 10, 20, 30 years. (Tying to a specific technology brings the horizon in even further... Web Dev 20 years ago was CGI scripts, 10 years ago it was server-side rendering frameworks, these days it's SPA's...) What I do think is that 'Web Dev' might be a viable first step within a career. It's a good way to get yourself into a spot where you're exposed to signifiant problems, and if you're lucky, it will also give you exposure to people that can help you along, as you develop your career. (But it's important to be intentional about both.) At the very least, that's how I answer then question when asked in person... focus on the specific tech as a tool in the short-term, and then focus on effectively solving problems people care about. It's better for them, and most likely, better for your own personal career development. (Edit: Some of this may just be my own perspective... My professional work has included everything ranging from small scale embedded programming to large scale clustered web apps and platform development. I'm grateful for never having thought of myself as a 'web dev', even though it is something I'm capable of.)
• ransom1538 8y ago
  "Is the Web Dev job market in a good enough state that I should risk more time and money?" These best people building new software and need help: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18807017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18807017 The most in-demand skill is: React. [From using grep/sed excluding JavaScript/JS]. So my answer is: Yes.
  • acamineronj 8y ago
    grep/sed ?
• ashelmire 8y ago
  Web dev is huge and probably will be for the foreseeable future - as long as businesses need custom solutions and software, it will probably be web based. Businesses will always need custom software. But there are a lot of people doing this work. You have to compete with them. That will take a lot more work.
• wilsonnb3 8y ago
  Simply put, yes.
• avip 8y ago
  >Six months sounds like a lot No, it does not. Learning new skill from scratch takes time. You're trying to master 2 new, orthogonal, in some sense contradictory skills: web development, and self-promotion (to find your place in "the job market"). Take a deep breath.
  • gwbas1c 8y ago
    Considering how little I knew after a 4-year Bachelor's degree, 6 months of nights and weekends is insignificant.
    • protonimitate 8y ago
      I don't think it's directly comparable. There's a difference, and not insignificant, between "learning everything for CS degree" vs "learning what you need to get hired as a web dev". But I'll agree that 6 months is not that much time in the "learn new career skills and find a job" timeline. I spent around 18 months of nights/weekend practice and learning, followed by 3 months of interview prep before I found a job and that was with a big spoonful of luck. To OP - this is a marathon, not a sprint. Get used to learning things on your own, you will be doing it for the rest of your career if you make the switch.
      • tracker1 8y ago
        > Get used to learning things on your own, you will be doing it for the rest of your career if you make the switch. Cannot second this enough. As a developer, there will always be new tools and technology. More room to grow into adjacent development. And more line of business knowledge to gain. I can't think of any other field, that has more lifetime learning involved in it.
    • wjoe 8y ago
      To be fair, considering how much actual programming I did in a 3 year Bachelor's degree, 6 months of learning programming could be plenty significant. Which isn't to say the non-programming stuff in my degree was irrelevant, but you don't need to spend 4 years full time studying to learn relevant skills for a junior web developer job, and you could easily learn them in less time outside of a degree.
• NinjaX 8y ago
  It is viable that's why they are investing in browsers. Hahahha
  • majewsky 8y ago
    Just because politics aren't investing in roads doesn't mean that selling cars stops being a viable business model.
  • pennaMan 8y ago
    Who is "they" and how did you get the impression that they are not investing in browsers?
• ykevinator 8y ago
  Yes
• soneca 8y ago
  Yes, it is. I spent 8 months studying web development and I am now one year and a half in on my first software development job. I can see clearly tons of opportunities in the future. My 8 months of studying were full-time studying (freeCodeCamp and plenty of small projects). 6-8 hours every weekday. Not sure what you mean about "solid path", but you have to have focus. edit: these are my tips for becoming a frontend web developer, which was my path. First, learn the essentials of CSS - don't aim to be a CSS wizard because that won't help you get your first job on good jobs (the ones that are not on agencies where your sole job is to transform photoshop images in HTML). The most basic and true advice is to focus on learning Javascript properly and deeply. Read books (EloquentJS for starters is a good one), read documentation, watch videos (Fun Fun Functions youtube channel is a nice one), practice on code-on-the-browser platforms (I am a huge fan of freeCodeCamp) and create some projects of your head using Javascript only. At least 3 (full-time) months on Javascript only. Then, move on to focus on React, because that's where all the jobs are going. And I say this being hired to work with Ember on my first job (and I enjoy Ember), but pragmatically, React is the way to go (assuming you have learned Javascript properly before). Also, pay attention to good software development practices (The Pragmatic Programmer is a good one) that are not about language syntax (e.g. coherent indentation of your code, good variable and method naming, how to make code more readable and maintainable). Become what in the United States they call "an engineer" with certain glamour on it. You don't need to buy the hype that software engineers are a special breed of people superior to all others, but do make an effort to learn best practices, design patterns, clean code and all that. Don't get into any tech discussions in forums, flamewars, don't take sides, etc. This early in your career you should focus and be pragmatic. Summary: Learn the essentials of HTML+CSS. Focus first on Javascript, then on React. Create your own projects and learn what good development practices you should use on them. I wrote a few blog posts of my learning and career change to web development, you might find them helpful: https://rodrigohgpontes.github.io/ https://rodrigohgpontes.github.io/
• dna_polymerase 8y ago
  Don't focues your education on single frameworks, take your time to learn the basics. For example: - Don't just learn Django, learn Python - Don't focus on React, Vue, etc. learn JavaScript Those skills will last longer and make it easier to transition into other roles if front-end doesn't feel right for you at any point in the future.
  • scarface74 8y ago
    In theory I agree. But learning something just well enough to get your foot in the door as a junior will have immediate rewards and then you can learn more deeply.
    • dna_polymerase 8y ago
      Absolutely, I agree. But don't get lazy then and really take the time to learn the basics. Aside from all the webdev focused MOOCs and courses on the internet there is plenty of stuff about Computer Science theory and whatnot available, so the opportunity is there.
      • scarface74 8y ago
        I’m your prototypical computer geek - started programming in the mid 80s in middle school in Basic and assembly language, got a CS degree, bit twiddled in C and C++ for over a decade, but my experience over the last decade, makes me doubt the need of most developers to need to focus on computer science. Most developers will never need to solve “hard problems”. They will be working on yet another software as a service CRUD app or a bespoke line of business app that will never see the light of day outside of their organization. I’ve found studying architecture, soft skills, and my business courses (before I dropped out of graduate school) to be much more helpful in my career.
      • vanadium 8y ago
        > But don't get lazy then and really take the time to learn the basics. Here was a typical (not verbatim) exchange when I was a Front-End Architect interviewing candidates for my team back in 2012 or so: --- Q: Tell me about your experience with JavaScript. A: I know JavaScript because I've been working in jQuery for a year. --- Further questions would isolate the fact that they've _only_ used jQuery. It was depressing, really. I mentor developers to really strive to learn and understand the fundamentals precisely to stop propagating the idea that libraries and frameworks > fundamentals. Problem is, I've already started to witness history repeating itself when interviewing candidates and getting the equivalent answer above--but with "React" in its place.
• leowoo91 8y ago
  If that is a comparison question to, say mobile development, a lot of people dont install apps until it becomes their mainstream. So yes, web is widely there but be warned, famous phrase "making a website" is tip of the iceberg and I seriously mean it.
• akuji1993 8y ago
  Regarding getting actual work, join local meetups, talk to people that are in the business. If you can get them to talk about their work, learn from them, get better through them and get some connections, you might have a path into the business down the road. Sitting at your computer learning is not the only thing you can do to learn more about this.
• joelbluminator 8y ago
  I'm inclined to say yes but obviously there are many factors: where you live, where you are willing to relocating, sometimes your age, your intelligence. Do you actually like the field? I think it's a good career most often than not but it's not always easy.
• tcper 8y ago
  I understand you, when you lack of money, it will devastate your faith. The path maybe hard, but stick to learn will worth it.
• Kaveren 8y ago
  Yes, the job market is in a fine state. If you're competent, you won't have a problem. You don't need to spend a penny (or too much time) to learn web development if you put in the effort. Mozilla Developer Network [0] is what I recommend as a learning resource. I'd advise reading the JavaScript Guide if you have previous experience; if you don't, there's stuff for beginners there to. Learning some HTML & CSS will be most helpful. I'd advise that after you learn JavaScript, you learn React [1]. Take the tutorial. I'd recommend watching one of the React talks to explain to you what makes React useful. I'd advise you prefer learning Node.js [2] next, and it's probably a better choice than learning PHP or Ruby for the purpose of server-side web development. Perhaps take a look at TypeScript after. To become a good programmer, branching out is helpful. A requirement to be a good programmer is that you have some basic level of CS knowledge (there's many free ways to study CS). Learning some C/C++/C#/Java/Rust/Go is also good, but this is not a priority to getting your initial webdev jobs. This isn't necessarily going to be useful in getting a job directly, but improving as a programmer will help indirectly. HTML & CSS mastery is a lot less important for a web developer (as opposed to a web designer) than JavaScript. You don't need to memorize everything, but you should be able to get by with Mozilla Developer Network open for reference. Other resources to check out: Eloquent JavaScript /r/JavaScript Free Code Camp javascript.info [0] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript [1] https://reactjs.org/ https://reactjs.org/ [2] https://nodejs.org/en/ https://nodejs.org/en/
• mscasts 8y ago
  I am a web developer and I get contacted a few times a week on LinkedIn about switching jobs. I assure you, if you are a web developer you will not go job less no matter where you live unless you're doing something very wrong.
  • sureaboutthis 8y ago
    I'm an electronic engineer turned software engineer and have been doing this for decades. I am in the Midwest USA, a large city but not a high tech one. I used to be contacted by headhunters at least once a week. Nowadays, I hear from Indeed and LinkedIn that often. I have been to their offices for interviews and assured they would find me a job quick. While I have risen through the ranks over the years to project manager and a prolific company and, eventually, ran my own profitable company, I have never, ever been sent on an interview anywhere by any of the operations I mentioned above.
    • mscasts 8y ago
      Ok yeah, I guess that is probably a common story. I have though and I would assume that is also common :)
• bsaul 8y ago
  most computer science degree takes 3 to 5 years. They are general enough so that you can pick up almost any specialty in a few months after that, but if you're starting both web dev AND computer programming, 6 months is absolutely nothing. Remember software dev is not about assembling big pieces of codes given in a framework, it's about logic / control flow, data structure, architecture. Once you understand all that, you don't consider yourself a "web dev" or a "mobile app dev" anymore, but just a software developper.
• zhte415 8y ago
  Yes. There was a story on the front page also, just a couple of days ago Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18824993 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18824993
  • CodeWriter23 8y ago
    Did you read that article? They actually say when to NOT do a website first. I found their web-first arguments mostly unconvincing. And kinda hand-wavy on certain points. Two relevant points, rapid MVP development and instant updating of your app I have to agree with. But the idea that desktop software pricing translates to people being willing to pay more for a website is a crock. People think websites should be free. It’s not just users who think that. I have to educate my clients why their business app that needs a login, data storage and access controls is not “just a website” and why they have to pay me significantly more to make it happen.
• n3d1m 8y ago
  Software development is and will be a good career choice for the foreseeable future (until software starts writing itself, which is not likely to happen any time soon). Web development is just a facet of it. If you spend time understanding fundamentals of software development you will not have wasted your time. Two more interesting questions you should be asking yourself are: 1. Do you love writing sofware, and 2. Are you good at it? If the answer is yes to both then you're on the right track. If not, you could have a problem down the road.
• PedroBatista 8y ago
  > Six months sounds like a lot lol, it takes YEARS to be a good developer. It depends of where you live and what are your expenses and local job market among many other things. But if you thing 6 months is a lot, maybe this is not the thing for you.
• dangerface 8y ago
  > Six months sounds like a lot but realistically it has been a few solid weeks of learning since it is a side hobby that I hope will turn into my career. The problem with the Web Dev job market is that everyone and there dog is doing what you are doing. If you want to be taken seriously you need to set yourself apart from this crowd as a professional developer.
• Walkman 8y ago
  I don't understand how is this a question? Do you really want to learn it because it seems to me that you are trying to find a bogus reason not to... no offense, but if you don't like it, you shouldn't pursue this career, otherwise the simple answer is there is huge demand and good salary for Web Developers.
• PurpleRamen 8y ago
  I think these days, the only viable career is as pornstar or a pet. And for thoss you must have been born as a dog or a cat. All other Jobs seems to be in decline because of globalisation or automation. But, of course can you still make a career in nearly everyting where there is demand, and for webdev there is demand. The question is whether your skills can match the demand. And frankly spoken, six month's is nothing, especially if it's just learning, not actual work. The base-level of learning for solid software development is usually measured in years, and that would be 30-40h/week of real learning. But there is also the student-market where you can earn get some pocket-money for low level-work. And depening on the country you live this can be a serious amount. There are several people from poorer countrys working remote for low money. So when you wanna take this serious, you should really know your position, market and demand. What can you offer? With whom do you compete? And how much do you must earn to survive, to grow higher?
• jkingsbery 8y ago
  Many good points raised already, a few points I haven't seen raised: * Within Web Dev, others have pointed out that there are many technologies you can work with, but there are also very many different kinds of output. Some web developers produce production code. Some web devs focus on producing early prototypes, and have some mix of UX Design and WebDev skills. Still others work for agencies where there is a heavy emphasis on delivering prototypes to pitch, but then the team will need to produce a production version of it. All of these start with a common skill set, but depending on what you want to do you might need more depth in some areas than others. * While I think it is a great career choice, there is still some Computer Science elitism in some circles - depending on where you apply for jobs, you may get asked interview questions that have little to do about WebDev itself. This practice is obviously not helpful, but it is a reality in some places. * Try to focus on getting an area of depth as well as sufficient breadth. You want sufficient breadth so that you can make it through most situations, but it's also really helpful in selling yourself as being an expert in a particular area.
  • kenny87 8y ago
    Apparently, at least according to CNBC [0], UX Design is one of the most in-demand skills in 2019. Not sure about their data sources, but it's definitely a skill a good web dev should consider adding to the toolkit. [0] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/04/the-30-most-in-demand-skills-in-2019-according-to-linkedin-.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/04/the-30-most-in-demand-skills...
• Vanderson 8y ago
  This is a hard question to answer because there are still people that make a living doing everything under the sun. Are you asking because you are concerned about the field dying? This would be a viable question, so I will assume this is your actual question. I would get involved today, not tomorrow, today. Contact a web development business in your area, or online and talk with someone. Ask them about what kind of work they are doing. Contact a few different types of web businesses. The smaller/medium sized ones are more likely to give you the time of day instead of just a secretary that will give you someone's voicemail. My son is 17 and got an internship last year with a local company doing web design. (minor dev work) And now he contracts with them from time to time. The business owner would hire him right now full time, but agrees with me that he really needs some life/education under his belt first. Every field out there _needs_ hard workers. People that will show up, have a good attitude and learn, learn, learn. Being a rock start is far less important. This is odd to hear when you are on the other side of this equation, but trust me, people hiring these days will hire for character and work ethic over perfect job skills, you just need to be able to get your foot in the door. Last, find the kind of "web dev" you want to actually do. You couldn't make me do anything else right now in life, I have to do web dev, it's not a choice I could walk away from, it's what I like doing and I have no interest in other work for the time being. You asked "risk more time and money", everything is a risk in life. There's very few absolutes. The question is are you willing to make it work? Web dev isn't like driving a truck or being a nurse where they teach you almost everything you need to know to do your job. With web development you have to keep learning and be ok with this. And you start off not knowing enough to really do the job perfectly. I am mostly self taught, and I had to go through years of re-educating myself out of bad habits, and deciding to chose industry standards and chosing the hard, but right way, to do things. It's always paid off for me, but then I like learning, I like seeing fascinating solutions, I like puzzles and problem solving. I'd do web dev as a hobby if I didn't do it for work. My last suggestion is to get started how I did, build something you actually want. And keep doing this over and over. I never wasted any time doing this. I made everything from my own text-to-speech tool (silly and half baked) to a full CMS. When in school I made multiple websites, games, apps, multiple portfolios, (trust me, a lot of this stuff was total crap, but I really learned a lot). Everyone else in my class did the minimum to get by. I've learned databases, server management, a few different version control systems, multiple languages, animation, design theory, etc... It's all been interesting, fun, often stressful, often exciting, but always useful. In the end, if you don't find work, either keep looking until you do, and keep up your skills (always, always be working on something) and eventually you will find something. It's just a numbers game. Or find satisfaction in whatever job you find yourself in outside of web development, it's always an option for some people. Cheers!
• eli_gottlieb 8y ago
  Unfortunately, I'd say it's the viable career choice. I've always found vastly more employers interviewing for web dev than for any other tech position.
• bsvalley 8y ago
  Yes it is. As long as we'll have Websites on the Internet we'll need Web developers. It is a great place to be still. I used to do that then I got burnt out by the stack, which keeps changing every 6 months. The easiest place to start as a developer in 2019 is Web.
• nathan_long 8y ago
  I think it's still a good market. Self-learning is hard, though, because there are a million branching paths of knowledge and it's easy to get overwhelmed or sidetracked. Especially when you have no existing skill base from which to ask "would this help me improve what I'm already doing?" Personally, I had a good friend mentor me and point me at things to learn early on, which helped a lot. A structured program would have the same benefit. I have no connection with it, but https://lambdaschool.com/ https://lambdaschool.com/ looks very interesting in that they bet on your ability to get a job: you pay nothing unless you do (other than the opportunity cost of spending the time to learn, which could be large).
• bobbyadamson 8y ago
  Yes. A lot of people here forget how many lower level jobs there are out there. I'd recommend focusing on JavaScript and front end engineering if you like that, or some back end language and framework like ruby and rails. You can learn enough in about a year to get a job.
• projectramo 8y ago
  Here are a few observations, in no particular order: 1. No one here can really tell you. They would be guessing. I would go on to indeed.com and type in the skill set you consider to be "web dev" and make note of the number of jobs and (where available) salary offering. This is the current state of the market. 2. You are asking an even more complicated question about the future state. The answer is even more prone to speculation. Your guess is as good as anyone's. 3. Although web-dev in its current form will almost certainly not be in demand, the future form will evolve out of the current form so the time you spend learning, debugging, networking will likely not be wasted. (unless we crack General AI).
• owaislone 8y ago
  Totally. Web is still a very dominant platform and will remain as such. Even mobile platform vendors like Google seem to support (and even promote) web as a first class choice for delivering content and apps on mobile devices. Also, web development can be a good entry point to get into software development in general. You'll inevitably cross paths with backends that power the web and can grow into a backend developer as well. Also, today developing for web frontends and native mobile/desktop apps is more similar than ever.
• napolux 8y ago
  This is a very interesting talk on the matter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rkTn98h1aI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rkTn98h1aI
• austenallred 8y ago
  Yes. I am the co-founder of Lambda School - (YC S17 - a CS education where the school doesn’t get paid unless you get a good job). Right now we see about 3 students/day get hired. You’ll likely hear a lot of people talking about how the market for juniors is flooded. That is partially true, but it’s flooded with people who cannot code. If you can actually be a productive employee I literally know 100 companies that will hire you today. As a self-taught engineer you have to convince them of that, which mostly means a solid portfolio, but there is insane demand. And if you get even one year of experience you won’t believe how many opportunities open up. There are individual companies whose annual growth in engineer hiring is greater than the total number of CS and bootcamp grads combined.
  • ArtWomb 8y ago
    >>> there is insane demand I am seeing it as well. And am recommending Lambda School to just about everyone who asks ;) The main problem I see is the steep learning curve. The intro lessons are facile enough. Anyone can setup VS Code, and install an App Engine SDK. But by the time they get to modules 3-4 ("designing the data schema"). They are ready to throw in the towel. At some point, a student requires one-to-one mentoring and repeatable reinforcement. Like learning a second language or playing the piano. Also check out this nice write-up in Dealbook today on Lambda's model: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/business/dealbook/education-student-loans-lambda-schools.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/business/dealbook/educati...
    • dpark 8y ago
      > At some point, a student requires one-to-one mentoring and repeatable reinforcement. Like learning a second language or playing the piano. It’s entirely possible to be a self-taught pianist. It’s also entirely possible to learn a second language without ever speaking to someone else in that language. What you can’t realistically do is become conversational, because you cannot practice that skill in isolation. Similarly, it’s entirely possible to learn to develop software independently. You can learn languages and SQL normalization and good design all by yourself. You might learn faster with a teacher, but you can do it independently. You cannot learn to work well with others (properly subdividing designs, dependency ordering, giving good feedback, etc) in isolation, but honestly these are the things you generally learn on the job, because schools also suck at teaching these things.
• ryanmarsh 8y ago
  It depends on what you mean by web developer. That used to mean taking mockups done in Photoshop and turning them into HTML. Today that narrow role on the team is often outsourced or does not pay very well. If by web developer you are referring to what many now call a "front end" developer then yes, that field is very busy and can pay quite well. Front end developers are expected to know a popular JavaScript framework (such as React) as well as CSS and HTML. Front end development is a dynamic and exciting field. I've been in and around "web development" for roughly 20 years and it is quite fun and has quite the future ahead. Just last week the top trending article on HN was about how you should start with a web app instead of a mobile app. Today there are really powerful and much easier to use frameworks than what we had compared to just a few years ago. I say, if the web truly interests you then dive in head first and pour your heart into your work and most of all SHOW YOUR WORK publicly so people can find you and know you. That's how you find great teams.
• peanutbuttter 8y ago
  6 months isnt a long time
• osrec 8y ago
  Hell yes! Just don't try and be the guy making 3 page info sites for your local gardener/bakery/whatever. There's simply no money in that, as they can do that themselves for free with an online website builder, so the value add from a good dev is minimal. Once you've honed your skills, focus on the more complex, bespoke projects. Become good at delivering on time and try to find clients that wish to invest in tech to improve their business further. They will generally appreciate your work more and will not hesitate to pay you good money if you're genuinely adding to their bottom line.
  • tomxor 8y ago
    > Just don't try and be the guy making 3 page info sites for your local gardener/bakery/whatever. This, THIS! Many web devs do a bit of this starting out and that's fine... just don't try to make it into something more, not only because it's worthless and the clients will drive you nuts by chasing them for petty bills but because you will also get bored out of your mind. Get involved in, or start a more significant project as soon as possible (Even FOSS for no money is better for your experience than wasting more time on these).
    • kiallmacinnes 8y ago
      Completely agree. Doing a few of these is fine, but for most people, it'll get pretty boring pretty fast. Add in the business side - finding clients, chasing bills, and the small 3 page sites won't be making you any money unless you have an army of developers churning them out. Personally, I see "Web Developer" as a skillset worth knowing, not an industry to be in. Use small gigs to learn HTML, CSS, Wordpress etc - but branch out. Contribute to some FOSS JS/PHP/Ruby/C#/whatever libraries, build some sites without WordPress or similar, and angle yourself towards being a web developer at a company who tag line isn't "Web Development" (or digital marketing!). All that said, I know there are people who LOVE the 3 page site work. So maybe that is what you want, but it wasn't for me :)
  • Raphmedia 8y ago
    > as they can do that themselves for free with an online website builder, so the value add from a good dev is minimal. And on the opposite side, it is quite easy to start a business of creating websites using those tools with minimum knowledge. I know a few people who started from that and eventually moved to more complex projects.
• demarq 8y ago
  I think the variable here is you, rather than the industry. Focus on being beyond mediocre and build up a small but well-executed portfolio and you will (almost) never have to look for a job again. I know it's anecdotal but here is my story: I'm used to hearing that my friends are looking for work, and some tell me about how many applications they have sent out. I went on to LinkedIn and ticked the checkbox that says I'm available for hiring, and I got a bunch of recruiters asking for a chance to speak with me. I'm now going to a new job where I'll earn what a typical senior exec earns in my country. Tell me that's not powerful.
• casper345 8y ago
  Right now yes, in the near future, probably not. As automation and better services come out, website development will be one of the first jobs to be replaced by this. Although services like Wordpress, Wix, have their problems, they get better and better every day. In the future, no one will be coding websites/not a viable career option (people may just code on the side website for really niche things) It is a great launchpad to do other programming besides web dev. Go into web dev, because there is a lot of cool tech in it and lessons. But learn other technologies as well that will not be replaced by automation.
  • openbasic 8y ago
    I've been hearing this argument since CoffeeCup, HighPowerSites and Dreamweaver were still a thing.
    • vanadium 8y ago
      thegrid.io was (yet) another flame-out associated with the same line of thinking. The intricacies of performant web development are quite a bit more nuanced than a lot of people aiming to automate it would like to acknowledge.
  • nfRfqX5n 8y ago
    i still think engineering will become more and more saturated to where it's a blue collar job, but don't see website builders ever replacing websites until AI is at a level where it's replacing humans everywhere else anyway
• comprev 8y ago
  6 months will teach you how to copy/paste code from StackOverflow and update the code for latest $JS_FRAMEWORK. You'll get by with "just enough" knowledge for a career in web dev. Invest your time - over a period of YEARS - into studying computer science, where coding is only a small part of the course. Then you'll be able to expand your career far beyond just Node web dev.
• probinso 8y ago
  yes. Computing disciplines aren't easy, so you're best off following your interests as you get started (self directed or otherwise); with the goal of sufficient skills in completion of a product. Move laterally, instead of deep prior to your first job, or until you have a more diverse understanding of the technology space. That'll paint your first job; there you'll do what you're payed for, and that can totally reshape you. This repeats forever.
• anonu 8y ago
  I think it totally is a viable career choice. My company is looking to hire web devs. I feel like good web devs require a tremendous amount of knowledge on different aspects of CS, Design, UI, UX, networking, etc... The problem, however, is most people approach the role like its a job at a fast food chain. I think both aspiring web devs and the vast majority of employers are guilty of this perspective.
• snowwrestler 8y ago
  For entry level web development I would take a look at PR or communications agencies. Many of them build and host custom websites for clients. Depending on the company, it can be a great way to get your first entry on your resume. The work is not super complicated and it's often based on popular CMS software and/or frameworks, so it's easy to get going. But you'll be getting paid and working on real projects, which are what you need to start building a career. You'll get to work with other developers and start making professional connections. Agency folks enjoy networking so you'll learn how to do that. And, jumping into a client company can be a viable way to move on to more complex work. I'm in the DC area and basically every single agency is looking for developers right now. But there should be a similar industry in any medium to big city.
• milosdog2 8y ago
  People say that web dev (the javascript/react/python/c#/java) fullstack kind is boring and mundane. But what else do people actually do? Sure, there's ML and embedded work but aren't most engineers doing CRUD work anyway?
  • leereeves 8y ago
    Is ML even a programming job? I see it more like data science, 10% programming 90% math. Edit: 3% programming, 30% math, 67% scrubbing data. Thanks for the correction shortoncash. :)
    • shortoncash 8y ago
      Most ML jobs are sitting around scrubbing data. The fun math part is like 5% of the job, and usually there's some guy (or a small handful of guys) that's a PhD who is hired to do all of that because he was in the research area before he left academia. I could be wrong, but this is my experience.
      • softawre 8y ago
        Agreed. We call that team "operations research" and they are all PhDs. The ML devs build the pipelines and deal with engineering concerns around having/moving/securing lots of data.
    • milosdog2 8y ago
      That too. So how is all computer science not 'web dev' and not a viable career choice? Assuming we are talking about the "right" kind of web dev, I guess.
    • koudos 8y ago
      I think there's a general misuse of terms like AI, Machine Learning, Data science and Data engineer. ML is the new "Big Data"
  • cgh 8y ago
    I agree that most modern programming work boils down to “put this into the database, take this out of the database”. Probably the biggest exceptions in terms of job numbers are embedded, which often requires an electrical engineering degree, and game development.
• sureaboutthis 8y ago
  I've noticed this about web dev. There are two parts. Graphic designers who can create web sites and software programmers who do the same. Most of these people work for medium to large companies full-time. The rest are like freelance artists who sell their work but have to market themselves continuously. They get hired to do one job and then their done and move on.
• dorkwood 8y ago
  Are you trying to optimise for what career path would be the most lucrative, or are you trying to find something you find fulfilling and enjoy spending your time on? I personally think it's a mistake to only focus on what will be useful in the future while ignoring subjects that you find interesting. In reality, you don't have enough information to know whether the choices you make today will be optimal for your future self. In my opinion, it's best to just follow what interests you and keep an eye out for opportunities along the way.
• VirgilShelton 8y ago
  Yes. What you're missing is three fold... 1: Where do people hire freelancers. 2: Sales skills. 3: An alternative to worrying about 1 and 2. 1. Create a profile and Upwork. While everything you'll read about Upwork will be negative you need leads. Upwork gets them for you and yes you can create your own website and start there but Upwork already spends a ton of money on ads / SEO and content marketing to keep generating leads. Take advantage of it. 2. Learing how to sale is critical for everyone, especially web designers and developers. Go down the YouTube rabbit hole and got to Amazon and search for sales books. There are a million ways to sale things so read the first chapter of each book and read reviews until you find something that sounds like you can feel comfortable using with clients. I recommend Jonathanstark.com, Doubleyourfreelancing.com and read How to Become a Rainmaker: The Rules for Getting and Keeping Customers and Clients 3. Alternatively you can skip the above and do one of the following. Subcontract with a marketing agency that needs to hire a developer. Find them using Google and could email them. Tell them you will lower your rate since they're getting the clients and that you don't like sales. Finally you can hire a sales person on 100% commission to find clients in need of web development and if they ever find a client that doesn't match your skill set outsource the work using your same Upwork account. Upwork allows you to not only freelance but to hire as well. The sales person should get 50% of the project costs upfront to start and upon delivery the client would pay 50% when completely satisfied. Pay the sales person 20% to 30% of the project or agree on a fixed fee. They don't get paid if they don't find a project for you so make sure and hire many salespeople. Finally if you're smart (which you seem to be) don't worry about knowing everything before you jump in. I've been freelancing since 2004 and run into new technology I have zero clue about. Howler I simply read the documentation or watch videos and boom new knowledge. Start now and be confident in yourself!
  • lowkeyokay 8y ago
    If you are worried about Upwork's reputation, choose Toptal instead. I have no connection with them other than having worked with freelancers from them a couple of times. They've been great. I have also come to know one of their devs personally, and he had only good things to say. He is now employed full time by a company for whom he used to work for through Toptal. However, having six months of experience, Toptal might not hire you. As someone already posted, I'd advise you to find a team and gain some experience. Having a deadline, and a customer with very high expectations - perhaps set by your initial promises - is sure path to a very stressful worklife. Don't do it.
• ascales 8y ago
  If you can't find a viable path the learn web development, or programming in general, you probably aren't a good enough problem solver to bother with the career in the first place
• ptero 8y ago
  > realistically it has been a few solid weeks of learning since it is a side hobby that I hope will turn into my career This is great -- people tend to quickly get good at hobby skills (as those are something they like and do voluntarily). However, a few weeks of learning is not nearly enough to get a taste for what a job there requires / involves and especially decide whether you will like what you do for a hobby as a career. I suggest two paths, pick one that you like most: 1. Pick something cool you can do as a "web app" and do it. Repeat 3-5 times. Don't worry if there are 50 existing options to do it, you are learning. But the end result should look good to you -- that is to be something you would enjoy using or showing to friends. Some examples: generate a beautiful ready-to-print PDF calendar with custom something (birthdays, vacation pics / links, etc); take a photo and make an STL file ready for 3D printing a coin (render on display, allow some options, etc.); capture and analyze OBDII data from your car; etc. 2. Find where others doing the type of development you want to do hang out (meetups, etc.); buy them beer and ask what they did, what the job market is, what skills you would need. Tell them that you did it as a hobby and wonder what the job market looks like. Many folks would gladly share wisdom or even mentor if they feel it is useful and appreciated. Good luck and have fun!
• legohead 8y ago
  Been a web dev for 20 years. Yes, but work on learning the full stack. Learn frontend, backend, SQL, sysop. Can you set up a server from a base image and eventually have a full app running reading from a database? Great! Now get familiar with cloud solutions like AWS. That might sound daunting, but it's actually easier in some respects. You don't have to know everything before you get a job, but knowing a little of all will show great promise in an interview. Don't get attached to any one technology or programming language. This field changes all the time (annoyingly so). There was NOSQL, React, Node, hell I remember the times before Memcache. So keep your eyes and brain open and be ready to adapt. Your current place of work will likely stay stale with whatever they have, but if you don't keep up with the outside world, finding your next job will be much harder.
• hnruss 8y ago
  For me, web development quickly led to full stack development. Once you can comfortably write the full stack, you’re pretty much guaranteed to find a job doing that somewhere. I recommend looking at job posts for the jobs you want and teaching yourself the technologies they require. Consider looking for paid internships, especially if you’re in college (even if you’re just taking some community college courses).
• deleted 8y ago
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• dwaltrip 8y ago
  If one has no prior porgramming experience, I would expect a minimum of 1500 - 2000 hours of work needed to learn the basics of the trade and find their first decent job. A small number will be able to do this on their own. The majority will benefit significantly from some structured teaching and mentorship. I think there are many good jobs available in web development. But it will depend significantly on your location.
• everdev 8y ago
  Web agency owner here. There is a surplus of beginners due to a surge in tech bootcamps. If you're in the bottom half of talent it's a race to the bottom of low cost. If you're top 25-50%, you'll probably have consistent good paying work. If you're top 25%+ you can make a great living. Probably similar to any skill set.
  • tracker1 8y ago
    From interviewing from bootcamps, I can mostly agree. I find that those who put in more effort beyond the assignment minimums tend to be those that have worked out the best.
• hessproject 8y ago
  The thing about web development is that the definition of "web developer" can vary wildly. Web development is a big field and can include a wide range of skills. Making a static html info page is web development. Building a SPA with a database and auth and user uploads and deploying it on aws/azure and scaling for a million users, also web development. If you are thinking along the lines of the first example, eg. the "I know html and css, I can build a website with pictures and operating hours for a mom and pop shop" developer, this market is shrinking with platforms like wix and squarespace where regular people can build these sites and maintain them easily and for cheap. Not to say you can't still make a living doing this, but it is something to be aware of if it is the route that you choose to take. If you are thinking more about the second example, yes, there is a high demand (and rapidly growing market) for this kind of developer at startups and fortune 500s and everything in between. Overall, the answer is yes, web development is still a growing field and it is absolutely a viable career choice, but it is important to keep learning and be aware of the market and adjust accordingly
  • cantthinkofone 8y ago
    Right, web apps aren't websites. The distinction is pretty sharp when you move from a simple static old fashioned display to Amazon tier complexity where money is being transacted, log in information stored, orders updated, and a million more things besides. The big question is if the internet and its primary portals, the desktop browser and the smartphone, will reach the end of their tether. The only thing I could see replacing it is neurotechnology of some sort, and that seems so far off and so difficult to commercialize that it's not something web developers need to worry about any time soon. Or perhaps quantum computing becomes commercially viable and simply shoves digital computing aside, negating the need for those skills completely. Another alternative is that the web radically changes unforeseeably and new practices instantly antiquate everything people are learning now, which is a more frustrating and realistic possibility and also something that is bound to happen. Given how difficult it can be for many people to learn these skills, and given how much knowledge one must integrate to be a productive developer, this is an upsetting potentiality and one that is bound to happen eventually. Not every field carries these risks. Law practice isn't going to change fundamentally in the coming decades. And some aspects of coding can be exhausting and demoralizing to learn. Past generations of coders have had their skill sets rendered null and void and it will probably happen again at some point to this generation.
• seymour333 8y ago
  A few years ago I made the decision to go back to school (for two years) to be a web dev. It cost me approximately $25k. Immediately after graduation I added $25k to my yearly income. There is a ton of work for web developers, and there will continue to be for some time (even if something comes along that makes web devs redundant, there is still decades of maintenance work in the market). It may be important to clarify exactly what you mean by web developer though. I work in many different portions of the web stack every day (database, server side code, front-end code, etc). The more diverse your skill set, the more opportunity there will be. At any rate, web is a really good entry point, and after a few years in industry you'll probably start to see different branches of development that appeal to you more. If you start out as a web dev there will always be different avenues and opportunities as your career advances.
• megaman8 8y ago
  There's pretty decent demand right now in some areas, but it depends on where you're located. Here in the bay area, there's good demand in SF and palo alto, but very few jobs in the east bay and lots of talent. But, it's all relative. You should compare it to your options available. In the mean time keep learning and developing your skills, read as much you possibly can about web development and learn the latest skills as well the backbone of all web development: HTML, CSS, AJAX, javascript and jQuery. Dont forget jQuery. Not many jobs may ask for it, but it's used everywhere and you will need to know something about it. If you like, go ahead and check out my site I'm developing for aspiring web developers such as yourself: It's filled to the brim with examples to learn from (you can play with the code without any setup), taking you step by step so you don't get lost: https://codeorc.com https://codeorc.com The advantage of learning some of the newer technologies like Vue and React are that they haven't been around for too long. So, if you get 3 years of experience with that, you can be considered relatively senior. Just something to think about if you're totally new.
• ninjakeyboard 8y ago
  If demand for your skills outweighs the availability of them in the skills market, then you'll make an excellent living. So your skills need to be in high demand. Compared to the competition, either be perceived as "better" (write books, give talks) or "more specialized" and you should be able to find a market segment that demands your skills and will pay for them.
• ggregoire 8y ago
  Web development is probably the biggest field in software development right now. And everybody is looking for web developers.
• fusiongyro 8y ago
  Judging by how hard it is to hire web developers, yes.
• k__ 8y ago
  Sure, it just got easier. It became something people who attended a 3 month code-camp can do without prior knowledge.
• lunulata 8y ago
  Web development is a good career path. We live in the golden age of programming. It's never been better to be a software engineer than now. Every major startup and web company I know are constantly looking for new good hires. I recommend focusing on either frontend or backend starting off. Full stack can get hired more at mid+senior level than entry.
• amatecha 8y ago
  Absolutely. One bit of advice might be to seek out a web agency (company that builds sites/webapps for all kinds of regional businesses). Depending on your city, demand is huge for web devs, particularly those proficient with JavaScript.
• RomanPushkin 8y ago
  I'm the founder of Ruby online school, not giving a link for two reasons: 1) the name of the school doesn't matter too much 2) it's in Russian anyway. So what I found is that students find jobs pretty quick. Some of them after 2-3 months from the ground up, from nothing! Absolute beginners! (the entire course is for 6 months, 100 hours of video). I was thinking why is that, because here is some quotes from reddit: 1) "why is it still so damn hard to get your first job?" https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/6zxrzt/the_job_market_makes_no_sense/ https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/6zxrzt/t... 2) lots of interviews, no offers https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/4s9foi/lots_of_interviews_but_no_offers/ https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/4s9foi/l... 3) "I graduated from GA Tech.. looking for entry level... position for over 6months but still nothing." https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/6ypimg/recent_cs_grad_with_no_job/ https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/6ypimg/r... But in Russia it's different (99% of my students are physically located in Russia, I'm in US). There is huge demand for web developers. You can jump on the train after couple of months. Why it's so different than US? And I found explanation: there is no Russian-speaking cheap labour that can write code. Companies in Russia need Russian developers only because English isn't number 1 (or number 2) language in the country. For US (and English-speaking market) it's the opposite: lots of English-speaking cheap labour, while locals are struggling to pay their bills and asking for more $$$. $30/hour for any US-based programmer is not a big deal, but for some countries it's a huge deal. So countries like India, China, Russia, Ukraine all contribute to that. For companies it's easier to hire someone from these countries with experience, rather than finding local for the same money without experience. So the bar is pretty high if we're talking about US. If you're based in Russia, it's probably the best time ever to become web apps developer, especially FOSS webdev: sanctions force government to switch to open source solutions and demand is damn high. I'm also author of the book about Ruby for absolute beginners, if you're interested https://leanpub.com/rubyisforfun https://leanpub.com/rubyisforfun
• rywalker 8y ago
  Yes I need to hire a React dev right now :)
• catwind7 8y ago
  > Is the Web Dev job market in a good enough state There's a lot of demand for devs across the board (this is my gut feeling from participating in hiring at my current company). This probably varies a lot across teams in a company, across companies in an industry, and across industries. One strategy I recommend is to narrow down your target employer market so you can get more specific answers. What industries are you interested in? What are some companies you might want to work for? Do they have an engineering team (most likely). Then figure out what roles they have open and do your best to position yourself for those openings once yo u start interviewing. > that I should risk more time and money? What kind of self-learning have you already done? Can you give us some information about the courses / tutorials you've been following? Is this something you find yourself enjoying? More details about your situation would help. For example, if you've mostly been following a coursera course for the last six months that's heavy on the theory side, I might recommend that you spend more time with something more hands on like building a web app to solve a problem you have.
• cdnsteve 8y ago
  One important aspect is that this industry requires constant learning and keeping up to date. You must make this a priority. When I started CSS did not exist and there was no front-end or back-end, you were a webmaster. I learned how to make interactive CD roms and interactive kiosks with Macromedia Director in school.... Technologies you learn now will be outdated tomorrow. Learning is a journey, not a destination. Try to focus on the larger concepts since these generally carry over across technologies.
• president 8y ago
  My prediction is that the tech industry will be resilient over time but getting a job in tech will get harder and harder. In the golden years of the web (early 2000s), all you needed was some experience and "passion" to get hired. These days, outside of specialized positions, getting a regular ol' CRUD job requires Leetcode and experience matters much less. Combine this with the fact that you are now competing with an ever-growing global talent pool, most of whom have masters/Phds and don't mind working 24/7, you can see where this trend is going.
• TACIXAT 8y ago
  Yes, it absolutely is. Learn full stack and go work at one of the web tech giants. (There are obviously other options, but I mention the tech giants because the salaries are very lucrative.) This usually means understanding data structures and algorithms so you can get past the interview questions. Aside from tech giants, the web is probably one of the most used interfaces ever. There a tons of business opportunities online. Just about every business is participating online. There are tons of jobs here. I specialized in computer security and am basically doing web development at a major tech company right now. It's kinda sad but I like money.
• bytematic 8y ago
  Yes definitely. There are way more jobs opening than skilled laborers, and very likely to continue that way for a long time. Have some fun and enjoy your learning, don't always think about it as a job or for getting a job.
• malvosenior 8y ago
  If you’re not inherently driven by an interest in computers, I would not recommend a job in this field. You will never be able to compete with people who do this as a passion and the constant need to learn (forever) will quickly burn you out.
• 345tw4erfd 8y ago
  The Web isn't going anywhere as society today heavily depends on it for all kinds of solutions. Just think how many things we do these days on the Web. So with that said, gaining the knowledge to build useful applications on the Web will lead to a career in Software Engineering. Because a Web Developer's knowledge spans across many different technologies, we typically use titles like Software Engineer, Front End Engineer, Full Stack Engineer, etc. For example, here is what a Front End Engineer might have knowledge in: - HTML (semantic markup) - CSS (layout, animations, responsive, mobile-first, media queries, SASS, etc.) - JavaScript (the language itself) - HTTP, AJAX, Promise API, RESTful APIs, async VS parallel - DOM APIs, DOM Performance - UX/UI methodologies - Accessibility, ARIA - Module bundlers, transpilers, build tools (webpack.js, rollup.js, etc.) - Various frameworks and libraries and knowing why and when to use them (e.g. Lodash, React, Ember, jQuery, etc.) - Programming design patterns, methodologies, and best practices - Object oriented programming - Functional programming (.map(), .reduce() and knowing about immutability) - Test driven development and various testing frameworks/libraries - Command Line (Bash, and/or other Unix/Linux shells) - Version control (GIT) - Data Structures and Algorithms (arrays, trees, DFS, BFS, and more) - High or deep level knowledge of how Browsers work (the event loop, reflow/relayout, etc.) - A server side language (NodeJS, Ruby, Python, PHP) - Databases (MySQL, NoSQL) - A server side web framework (ExpressJS, Ruby on Rails, Django, Laravel, etc.) - Security (authentication, authorization, XSS, SQL injections, cookies, and more) - Ability to deploy a product in a production environment (e.g. AWS) - Development workflows (GIT, code reviews, continuous integration, and more)
• ender89 8y ago
  God, I hope so. I guess I can always go with my fallback of dolphin trainer if this whole web developer thing stops panning out.
• skraelingjar 8y ago
  As others have pointed out there are generally two flavors of 'web developers' and I've been on both sides. Having worked at agencies, with outsourced talent, and building web apps with modern tools; there seems to be a divide between the self-taught and the educated. I got a BS in Entrepreneurship and Innovation and all my web development learning and experience came from my own projects or on the job. It's been difficult for me to find an engineering or product management position despite having experience (one phone interview for ~25 applications). There's definitely more I can do on my part however this isn't unique to me. Perhaps the fact that many companies have switched to automated screening systems to filter out all the junk resumes has made it harder to get interviews? To answer your question, the need in the market is there and if you are patient, your risk should be rewarded.
• nikdaheratik 8y ago
  It really depends on your market and what you've learned. There are plenty of jobs that involve making things to put out on the web, which is what "web development" is. But they are all semi-specialised and very few people can make a living with just basic HTML/CSS/JS web development skills. The bread and butter of alot of "Web Developers" is Wordpress. If you learn that inside and out, you can likely find a job somewhere in a decent market. There are other CMS you can learn instead, but once you pick up one, then the others shouldn't be that difficult. Another path is to pick up a ton of client side javascript skills (ideally combining bootstrap with frameworks like Angular, Vue, etc) and become a "front end" developer. This is relatively easy to break into, but it's harder to muddle your way through as you have to know a wider variety of skills. If you have the aptitude it can pay very well, though. Probably the hardest to break into, but maybe the most stable, is to learn about databases and how the server works, and then go into server-side programming using PHP, Java, or javascript using node.js. I think this would involve some serious time commitment, and may be something you pick up after you get your foot in the door.
• gremlinsinc 8y ago
  My advice, as a full-stack dev (laravel on backend, vue(mostly) on frontend) -- learn and become a javascript master. Learn react and vue. Learn everything there is to know about es6+. Learn to use react native and/or nativescript to build mobile apps as well. There are a lot of php/laravel jobs still, but JS seems to pay more, and it's everywhere - the # of jobs out there for frontend or full-stack js devs is crazy. Plus with JS you can do backend and frontend. One thing you might do to get started is find a mentor, or partner with someone and just start building stuff. Tutorials are shit (except when you need them to solve a problem). You can't just learn to code following a book or guide or video. You've got to get your hands dirty and 'tinker' with things. When you try to do something and can't figure out how, then you'll go and watch tutorials or read stackoverflow threads. Everytime you break through these 'walls', is when you level up your skills and reach new heights as a developer. I've been doing laravel since 2013, and Vue since 2016 and I'm still learning every day. Every time I see older code I wrote even 3 or 4 months earlier, I cringe at how ugly it is and could be improved with what I now know. You have to love learning though to be a good dev, because you'll be learning/googling your way out of problems for the rest of your life or until you build an app that brings in residual income and lets you retire.
• hestefisk 8y ago
  Get a Comp Sci degree instead of the self taught path. It will pay for itself in the long run.
• MrTortoise 8y ago
  Yes find an area you enjoy, dive in and get good at coding with people, pulling people into discussion. Set for life
• shath2018 8y ago
  There's still huge demand for these roles - two questions to ask yourself are 1) how do I stand out? and 2) do I enjoy it? This is a great related thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18862790#18865742 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18862790#18865742 If you're interested in combining your coding skills with customer-facing/problem-solving responsibilities, Sales Engineers are in huge demand. Companies are desperate to recruit for this combo of talent because it's so rare. I'm the founder of Flockjay (YC W19 - tech sales bootcamp that helps people break into tech, without code). We have students with coding experience who are doing incredible things - companies can't wait to hire them. Happy to chat more.
• deleted 8y ago
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• throwaway2021 8y ago
  No, the market is saturated with idiots who can do the same you do but cheaper. Getting a job is nearly impossible.