21 ms·

Apple needs to change iPhone’s call UI because robocalls are killing us

268 points by spenvo 8y ago

tonyquart 8y ago
I have a suggestion. If you receive robocalls from legit companies, I think you can try to sue them. I read an article about this at https://www.whycall.me/news/consumer-wins-massive-229500-robocall-lawsuit-against-time-warner-cable/ https://www.whycall.me/news/consumer-wins-massive-229500-rob.... If those robocalls are coming from scammers, then you could just ignore those calls. There's no way we can stop them, anyway.
btilly 8y ago
I actually would like a regulatory solution for this. Mandate a way for me to say whether incoming calls were spam. Require my phone company to pay me money every time I get spammed. Allow my phone company to, at their option, proactively block calls from specific upstreams and/or pass the charge to the specific upstreams. Now from those incentives, the fines will naturally follow the upstreams to the source of the spam, and provide motivation for them to clean their acts up. Voila! (And if telephone companies decide that they need a more secure protocol to make spamming harder, that's up to them.)
- mortenjorck 8y ago
  This really is the only way to root out the problem. The carrier networks have to hold the upstream VOIP providers accountable, so the VOIP providers hold their customers who create random spoofed phone numbers accountable.
- elliekelly 8y ago
  This is a really good idea in theory but my understanding is that a lot of these calls come in from spoofed numbers. So if you're the unlucky person whose number the spammers choose to spoof that day you're already in for a giant headache - getting your phone number blocked would add insult to injury.
  - fxj 8y ago
    When the client of the robocaller who wants to sell something is fined then there are soon no more orders for robocaller.
    - btilly 8y ago
      And if you implement that, then you'll get the blackhat approach of paying the robocaller to advertise your competitor's product.
  - btilly 8y ago
    The point is to target the spoofing process directly. The incentives should cause VoIP solutions that generate spoofed calls to get kicked out of the phone system. Yes, this would cause false positives. However it is my belief that the general harm from false positives would be less than from current negatives, and that, given incentives, the phone companies should be able to figure it out.
- Reason077 8y ago
  ”I actually would like a regulatory solution for this.” The UK has a solution. It does actually work, mostly: https://www.tpsonline.org.uk/tps/index.html https://www.tpsonline.org.uk/tps/index.html
  - sofaofthedamned 8y ago
    It doesn't work, and i'm in the UK too. Bad actors simply ditch their LTD Co when they eventually get a small fine and some use it as a whitelist of active numbers to use. IIRC there was an idea about making directors of companies who flout this personally responsible, I wonder if this happened?
    - redisman 8y ago
      Then the fine/punishment needs to be much harsher right? If it's a slap on the wrist then of course it's not gonna work
    - orf 8y ago
      It works great. I get about 2 calls a year now, and just saying "I'm on the no-call registry" makes them hang up really fast.
  - btilly 8y ago
    The USA has a similar solution. See https://www.donotcall.gov/ https://www.donotcall.gov/ for details. Until fairly recently, it also worked pretty well. And still does for legitimate companies doing phone solicitation. (Excepting political parties, because they are exempt from the law.) However spoofers who know that they won't be tracked back to the source don't care about do not call lists.
  - Rjevski 8y ago
    It doesn’t work. Only honest callers would follow this. In addition, looking up a number in there is paid which is less than ideal. The service itself is already an inconvenience to its “target market” (aka telemarketers or robocallers) so at least you should make it as easy as possible to use it. I actually worked on a lawful telemarketing operation a few years back (don’t ask - desperate times called for desperate measures) and paying for TPS lookups was both a surprise and a huge problem. The only reason it seems like it works is because the US is a much juicier market for the scammers so most don’t bother with the UK, but I still see people occasionally getting tech support scams or similar so clearly there’s nothing actually preventing them from spamming the UK - for now it’s just that the US is a bigger fish.
- fxj 8y ago
  In germany robocalls are illegal and the caller can get a huge fine.
  - rock_hard 8y ago
    Another terrible solution from German lawmakers that stifles innovation! Instead of figuring out a more measured approach they just made them all illegal :(
    - redisman 8y ago
      Sounds like a 100x better solution than the US where I literally receive spam multiple times per day as phone calls. Why don't you go innovate on something useful?
      - rock_hard 8y ago
        The US situation is also not ideal...but there is also solution in the middle
        darkpuma 8y ago
        There is no need for a solution in the middle. Whatever sort of robocall "innovation" you have in mind, the world is better off without it.
        sixothree 8y ago
        Yet you failed to have described one.
    - sho 8y ago
      In your first sentence I thought you were being sarcastic. A little weird, I didn't know German government jokes were a thing, but OK. In your second sentence I realised you weren't. Wow. If this is "innovation", then let it be stifled with all speed.
    - TeMPOraL 8y ago
- mrweasel 8y ago
  > I actually would like a regulatory solution for this. That's actually the only way to go. Adding support for apps to screen your calls, block unknown number or some other feature that requires an action from the user only benefits those who understand the technology and know that it's available. It leaves those most susceptible to fraudulent calls as the only target for scammers. People often forget that those with limited technological understanding, such as the elderly, may need society to step in an actually solve the problems, rather than plastering over them with even more tech.
- notatcomputer68 8y ago
  Busybody morality police would abuse this to deprive people of their freedom of telephone. Hard no
  - Quanttek 8y ago
    Here in Germany - and I believe most of Europe - these calls are illegal and that works perfectly. I have never gotten a robocall on my life and am still free to phone around as much as I want. (Not sure how exactly they are regulated. If they're illegal by themselves or if it's a side-effect from the ban on signing contracts via phone)
rvanmil 8y ago
It's not just robocalls, but any app that uses CallKit. It annoys me to no end that apps like WhatsApp can take over my entire phone with a call and I am unable to disable that like I can with notifications.
elliekelly 8y ago
This annoyance is three-fold when a call from your iPhone also takes over your iPad screen and rings on your MacBook.
- vuln 8y ago
  I agree it is the worst.
- bradleyankrom 8y ago
  I turned off the feature that shows calls on my MacBook because of this. It's nice that the UI shows "Scam Likely" as the caller, but maybe give me an option to filter out those calls entirely? Let them go to voicemail or something... who is answering the phone when the caller is unknown and identified by the UI as "Scam Likely"?
  - elliekelly 8y ago
    Yes! I would even go so far as to say if the caller isn't in my phonebook let them go to voicemail. Or at least give me the option in settings. If I don't know who's calling they're getting my voicemail 100% of the time.
    - bradleyankrom 8y ago
      Elsewhere in the replies it was suggested that you put your phone on Do Not Disturb and configure it to allow calls from your contacts to get through. That might be a hacky solution?
  - traek 8y ago
    That's a T-Mobile feature, not an Apple feature, and you can change your settings to block the calls instead of just ID'ing them. https://www.t-mobile.com/resources/call-protection https://www.t-mobile.com/resources/call-protection
    - bradleyankrom 8y ago
thatswrong0 8y ago
I would love to be able to block all numbers coming from my area code and the first 3 digits of my number.. all my robo calls come from a number that looks just like mine.
- mortenjorck 8y ago
  I use an app called WideProtect. It's not free, but it's also not a subscription. It lets you do exactly what you describe. As a side note, CallKit on iOS doesn't support wildcard blocking, so WideProtect literally adds all the possible numbers within your specified range to the blocking database. This doesn't impact performance as far as I can tell (maybe calls ring another 100ms after they would normally), but there seems to be a delay of a few minutes after installing for it to show up as a block extension under Settings.
- btilly 8y ago
  That sounds very useful. But with one exception. As tempting as it may be, my ex should still be able to call me.
- jdross 8y ago
  There’s a free app called Hiya that does this
- mallomarmeasle 8y ago
  Certainly the native OS should support this. But I n case you are not aware, third party apps such as Hiya will do this exact thing.
- sporf 8y ago
  There are apps that do exactly that, e.g. NumberShield for iOS. Blocking calls from numbers with the same first six digit as mine has substantially reduced the amount of robocalls I receive.
- mchannon 8y ago
  Hear hear. An interesting corner case is when the call is from your exact number. I wonder if the keepers of the POTS (plain old telephone system) can start putting in safeguards to curtail the ability to fake your source phone number. I get that there are myriad instances where this is above board and even necessary, but nobody's proposing any changes.
carlospwk 8y ago
I have no idea what a robocall is but I would LOVE a simple notification banner for when someone calls. I rarely get calls these days but when I do, it’s a major annoyance if I’m doing something on my phone. It’s time calls are relegated to the same level of urgency as WhatsApp messages and emails.
- bradleyankrom 8y ago
  do you iive outside the U.S.?
  - IshKebab 8y ago
    I like in the UK and get maybe 5 robocalls a year. I'm not at all cautious about giving out my phone number and I've had the same number for at least 10 years. Why is this such a problem in America but not elsewhere?
    - bradleyankrom 8y ago
      I'm not an expert, but I would guess that regulation around these kinds of `nuisance` calls is tighter outside the U.S. We (in the U.S.) have a National Do Not Call Registry[0] but I don't know how strong the enforcement of violations is. With scammers, I think much of the problem is that they're using VoIP and other technologies that make it difficult to pin down exactly who is making the calls, and from where. [0] https://www.donotcall.gov https://www.donotcall.gov
    - kokokokoko 8y ago
      It's not. Robocalls are one of those things that really upsets a small subset of people either because they are overly sensitive to robocalls or that they are a member of that unlucky subset that does receive a very high amount. Like most things in the social media era, the grievances of a very vocal minority appear to be a larger group than they actually are. For example, the title of the article tells us that robocalls are "killing us".
      - 8y ago
mikestew 8y ago
AFAIK, it's still the case that I can't block everything but numbers in my contacts, right? That's all I'm asking, and it can't be that hard. Add that simple feature that should have been there ten years ago and the problem is solved for me.
- javery 8y ago
  You can do this, just set your phone to Do Not Disturb and then set it to "allow calls from my contacts"
  - mikestew 8y ago
    I've seen that, but doesn't it take SMS/iMessages with it? IOW, I won't be notified of messages no matter who sends it? Regardless, it's just phone calls I want to block, I don't get enough spam SMS to care about who is sending it. I guess I'm going to have to fiddle around with when the wife gets home and gather some empirical evidence.
    - stock_toaster 8y ago
      > I've seen that, but doesn't it take SMS/iMessages with it? Indeed it does, which makes it a non-solution for me. I apparently have the same desire you do - an option for voice calls to go direct to voicemail unless they are in my favorites list, without having to use the more general Do Not Disturb mode.
    - mdhen 8y ago
      On Samsung phones you can allow texts from noon contact numbers even if you are blocking calls. You also can allow any alarms through.
  - charlesju 8y ago
    This is only partially true on iOS. It doesn't take into account when you're using the phone, then it just lets everything through. Which is SUPPERRRRR annoying.
deckar01 8y ago
It is a phone. If you need uninterrupted productivity, use any other type of personal computing device.
- Bud 8y ago
  Not a solution, for obvious reasons which have already been covered. These alerts show up on your other devices as well. Furthermore, your bias aside, the fact is that phones are the primary productivity device for hundreds of millions of users.
- mikestew 8y ago
  It's not a phone to me, it's a pocket computer with shovelware telephony that I'd rather do without. Just give me a data pipe, I'll figure out the voice communication part.
- justusthane 8y ago
  What a weird argument. Just because it can receive phone calls doesn't mean that you shouldn't also be able to be uninterrupted if you like.
- Nadya 8y ago
  It is a mobile computing device that happens to be able to take calls. "Smart phones" are "phones" in only so much that they can make phone calls. I've used my smart phone to make a call one time in the past 8 years. For me, it simply isn't a phone. Most of my peers use their mobile computing devices to browse the internet, schedule things, and play games. Very, very few of them use it to make phone calls and those that do are calling family or their SO a majority of the time.
- dextersgenius 8y ago
  > It is a phone. If you need uninterrupted productivity, use any other type of personal computing device. Phones have stopped being just phones for a while now. Modern smartphones are full fledged computing devices and are a key productivity tool for many users. Personally I hardly even use the phone feature to justify calling my device a phone. I make maybe one or two traditional phone calls a month, as most of my day-to-day communications is done over the Internet.
robmiller 8y ago
It's amazing that calendar invitation spam isn't more prevalent. The times it has happened to me have been incredibly infuriating because declining means a response to the spammer and ignoring can leave it on your calendar.
- Anechoic 8y ago
  If using a recent version of Apple's calendar, you should get a "decline but don't notify" option. Another workaround is to make a new calendar, transfer that appointment to the new calendar, and then delete that calendar. It shouldn't be necessary, but here we are.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  There is a nontrivial amount of effort on Apple’s side going on here to identify and block calendar spammers.
awakeasleep 8y ago
"At the telelphony-infrastructure level, it’s a supremely difficult problem that lacks a short-term fix because the underlying protocol is hopelessly insecure." This is only partly true. Technologically the solution is difficult, but it's easy from the social side as carriers can blacklist the smaller carriers that allow this fraud to take place. The real problem is that everyone except the consumer benefits from this. Every phone company in the chain from the scammer to you takes a penny out of the scammer's profits. At this point these scam phone calls may be nearing the majority of the phone calls placed in the USA, so it's going to be a huge financial disruption to the carriers when they have to give up their game.
- tdeck 8y ago
  Why hasn't there been a class action against carriers for failing to do anything about this problem?
  - nradov 8y ago
    Which law or contact term have the carriers broken?
    - tdeck 8y ago
      Not sure. But they provide a service called Caller ID that purports to identity callers but can be trivially spoofed by people scamming their customers. Moreover, caller ID used to actually work (IE couldn't be trivially spoofed), so customers might have a reasonable expectation that it still does work. It's the telco's responsibility to present accurate caller information to customers.
      - nradov 8y ago
        Caller ID could always be trivially spoofed. It's just that most scammers didn't previously bother to do it. Telcos currently have no legal responsibility to present accurate caller information to customers. That would require a new law.
    - 8y ago
Bud 8y ago
Or we could actually fix the problem and make the do-not-call list laws much stronger and put some enforcement behind them.
kuschku 8y ago
Isn't this exactly what Android already does?
- smelendez 8y ago
  Yes, Android has improved on this front. It now treats incoming calls and voicemails basically like any notification and ongoing calls like any other app with an active notification.
gumby 8y ago
Apple provides a fix: get an Apple Watch and make your phone silent. Then you get a notification on your watch which you can suppress by placing your hand over it. I make this comment in jest because obviously this is a very user-unfriendly "solution" unless you planned to buy an apple watch for some other reason. However I do use this feature. As for the post's comment that dismissing the call leaks info: I don't know what the predictive dialers have any understanding of this -- if you simply refuse to answer it's simply a disconnect. I also doubt they keep stats on calls that go to vmail, if you accidentally do that or if you refuse to answer.
- ddingus 8y ago
  I have heard this suggested in all seriousness.
- lsc 8y ago
  I have an apple watch... it doesn't solve the problem that if I answer a call that is not from a contact, it is 9/10ths spam, so I simply don't answer calls not on my contact list, and thus sometimes miss important calls from businesses that don't text.
akerl_ 8y ago
Apple added hooks a while back so that 3rd party apps can interject into the call process, and I've been using https://hiya.com https://hiya.com to do that and block scam calls. I have it set to disregard suspected scam/fraud calls, so they never ring my phone.
mortenjorck 8y ago
Since the phone companies are too busy trying to build content empires rather than working to improve their core competencies, it's time for Apple to step up the call-blocking experience at the OS level. The addition of a call-blocking API was a very good first step, but the time is fast arriving when robust blocking patterns will be table stakes similar to what basic email spam filtering is today.
- elsonrodriguez 8y ago
  I'd give it a year before they buy someone like Hiya.
brian_herman__ 8y ago
I use callblocking software to mitigate this robokiller. It costs 2.99 per month but I get signifiantly less robo calls and it allows you to put custom answer messages for the robo calls.
TrainedMonkey 8y ago
Mr. Number does a pretty food job of blocking known robocallers and 'neighborhood' callers.
nyjah 8y ago
Tapping Decline is not a great option because it actually tells the robocaller that you’re with your phone and are annoyed by the call, information I’d rather not give. Call me paranoid, but I take it a step further and absolutely believe whatever cold call company is calling knows when my phone is moving, or I am around it. I am the type of person that doesn't carry their phone all the time, I usually keep it in my home and work in barn next door, but I notice I don't have many missed called from bullshit numbers. Not saying all, but the majority of these calls are coming when I am around my phone. Anyone else experience anything like this? edit: lol to ianlevesque quick paranoid response, but start paying attention I dont think its too far fetched. I imagine some code that has some sort of delay to wait for the phone to move or what so long after it is moved to then start to ring. Its not like there is anyone on the other line half the time or it will just hang up. I dont understand robocalls at all.
- pavel_lishin 8y ago
  Maybe there's a pattern to when you are around your phone, and when you aren't. Most of my robocalls are during the day - when I'm at a desk, with my phone. In the evening when my phone is away from me appears to be a less popular time to call.
- ianlevesque 8y ago
  Yes, you are paranoid.
  - tefferon 8y ago
    no, I think OP is on to something here
    - fjp 8y ago
      No I work in telecom and he's not onto anything. It's technically impossible for one, and the ROI wouldn't be there even if it was. The ROI on spray and pray is high enough. (EDIT: Not as high as like actual legit telecommunications services but it takes a tiny fraction of the expertise.) Literally all the information they need is your phone number. They just spoof the "from" number, often to appear to be a toll-free number or a number in your area code and crank out as many calls as their carriers will let them without shutting them down. The underlying costs are cheap enough where only a teeeeensy percentage of people have to fall for it for it to be worth it.
izacus 8y ago
I never get robocalls in Europe - what's different here? Why does USA have this huge problem with spam calls and most of Europe doesn't? Is spam blocking on OS level really the right approach to fix this problem?
- diebeforei485 8y ago
  > Why does USA have this huge problem with spam calls and most of Europe doesn't? Presumably because (1) it's much easier to find English speakers in countries where most robocalls actually originate, and (2) the same model can scale to 320M recipients with very little marginal effort.
  - nicky0 8y ago
    Surely in Germany robocallers woul call people in German.
    - thirdsun 8y ago
      That was the point of the parent poster. Why bother with german and other much less common languages when you could just target a de facto global language that both your victims as well as those responsible for those scams know?
pocketstar 8y ago
imo the best way to combat this is to answer the call and waste as much of the scammers time as possible. Call spamming only scales because most people ignore or hangup immediately. If you waste 30seconds of a scammers time thats 30 more people they cant call. And that 30 seconds costs THEM money. I just answer say “hi” to start the recording and leave the phone on my desk until they hangup. Perhaps i dont completely understand the backend but if more people wasted the scammers time it would quickly become too expensive for them to continue.
- ap3 8y ago
  How much is your time worth vs the robocallers ?
  - quicklime 8y ago
    When I was getting robocalls a while back, I started saying "hi" and letting them talk, then I'd put the phone on mute and continue whatever I was doing. The calls stopped a few weeks after that. Usually this would take about 10 seconds of my time, and about 90 seconds of theirs, per call. I'm pretty sure that over the long term, it costs me less time as it made the problem completely go away. Things that I'd tried before that, that didn't work, include: immediately hanging up, politely and no-so-politely asking them not to call back.
seanwilson 8y ago
> And disrupt they do, at a massive scale. Several billion fake calls are received each month in the US. Reports show this is a global problem, with Brazilians averaging 37 spam calls per month. Actually, I’m getting a robocall as I type this very sentence, my second today. Is there a reason this isn't as prevalent in the UK? I get maybe 2 calls a month like this. Are robocallers in the UK more likely to get in trouble maybe? Putting this on Apple isn't addressing the core of the problem.
jchw 8y ago
Fwiw, Android actually does do this. When the phone is unlocked, calls show up as a banner. In addition, they added that new call screening option, I've been using it and so far it has worked fairly well. Also, there is some built-in call filtering and third party apps as well, though I have mostly been able to rely on the built-in filtering. Does iOS really not have any options for filtering? I swear last time I had an iPhone (running iOS9) there was Something... but then again, I was jailbroken. It's a bit funny that we got full web browsers on phones before proper call filtering. (Disclaimer: I work for Google but not on phones.)
- spenvo 8y ago
  Excellent, I'll add this to the article. No idea why my post went from #1 on HN to the third page in under 30 minutes, I thought we were having a fruitful discussion here
  - hu3 8y ago
    Not sure if this has been mentioned but Android's DnD mode allows granular settings including blocking non-contact calls: https://i.imgur.com/ZcRSXlK.png https://i.imgur.com/ZcRSXlK.png
- em-bee 8y ago
  i was jailbroken made me think of i was heartbroken :-)
- saagarjha 8y ago
  iOS has had the ability to block certain numbers for a while. iOS 11 adds IdentityLookup, a framework for blocking unwanted calls and messages.
fxj 8y ago
robocalls are illegal in germany. They are called unerlaubte Telefonwerbung and one energy company got fined with 140.000 euros. https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/DE/Sachgebiete/Telekommunikation/Verbraucher/UnerlaubteTelefonwerbung/unerlaubtetelefonwerbung-node.html https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/DE/Sachgebiete/Telekommunik... FTA: After the E wie Einfach GmbH had found agencies for the advertising measures, obviously no more control took place. Therefore the E.ON daughter is occupied now with a fine of 140.000 euro. Because as a client of the call actions it must guarantee the adherence to the legal principles. This includes above all that in each individual case an explicit consent of the consumers is present. The client is responsible for this, even if the telephone calls are carried out by subcontractors. However, the decision of the Federal Network Agency is not yet legally binding: the electricity supplier can appeal the fine in court. Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator https://www.e-recht24.de/news/telekommunikation/10928-unerlaubte-telefonwerbung-140-000-euro-strafe-fuer-energieversorger.html https://www.e-recht24.de/news/telekommunikation/10928-unerla...
- anticensor 8y ago
  > unerlaubte Telefonwerbung "Illegal phone advertising" for those do not speak German.
troydavis 8y ago
The eventual fix will be adopting ATIS SHAKEN and STIR protocols, which is, very roughly, signed caller ID. The FCC is now demanding it of carriers: https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-354933A1.pdf https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-354933A1.pdf (Background and open letters to carriers: https://www.fcc.gov/document/chairman-pai-demands-industry-adopt-protocols-end-illegal-spoofing https://www.fcc.gov/document/chairman-pai-demands-industry-a...) How it works, short version: https://transnexus.com/blog/2017/stop-spoofed-robocalls-with-stir-and-shaken/ https://transnexus.com/blog/2017/stop-spoofed-robocalls-with... How it works, long version: http://www.atis.org/01_resources/whitepapers/#shaken-studies http://www.atis.org/01_resources/whitepapers/#shaken-studies (find in page for “SHAKEN” and “Caller ID”)
- sofaofthedamned 8y ago
  Apologies for not reading through these links, but does this fix just the caller-id issue, or the routing issue - i.e. routing an SMS to a bad actor?
  - Rjevski 8y ago
    Just caller ID, and even then it seems like it’s between service providers only - you have to trust your carrier to validate signatures and reject bad/missing ones.
bassman9000 8y ago
Right now, any robocall hacker in the world can instantly take over your phone’s screen, knocking you out of your mobile gaming experience, disrupting you as you check out at the store, or breaking your concentration as you try and type out an email. jesus christ, call james bond, this is a super-villain grade world domination issue
JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> I would love to be able to block all numbers coming from my area code and the first 3 digits of my number.. all my robo calls come from a number that looks just like mine Somewhat humorously, this has destroyed my ability to receive phone calls from my home town. I instinctively hang up and block.
code4tee 8y ago
Because my phone number is not from where I actually live and most of these robocallers fake a number from your local exchange, seeing a number that looks like mine pop up basically tells me right away it’s a robocall since nobody calls me from that exchange. Whole thing is still incredibly annoying though and problem is getting worse.
org3432 8y ago
So the garbage dump we call a USPS mailbox doesn't rise to the same level of concern for some reason still?
- win2020 8y ago
  USPS gets paid to deliver spam... why would they want to stop it? actually, they even give cheaper rates to the spammers because they spam so much...
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    Isn't it the same for telcos and telemarketers/robocalls?
- javagram 8y ago
  The USPS mailbox can be consumed asynchronously. Isn’t it possible to opt out of a lot of bulk mail anyway? Bulk mail can never be as bad as online spam since it’s much more expensive to mail and easier to trace a sender.
  - org3432 8y ago
    It's effectively the same as opting out of these robo calls, there's a FTC list for both and yet it has zero effect. I also get 99.9% junk mail, so it's easy to lose actual mail in the pile.
- nikanj 8y ago
  I’ve never been woken at 4am by a spam mailer delivered by USPS
cityzen 8y ago
About a year ago I put my phone on DND and have left it on ever since. My wife and the kids school are in my favorites so they can get through. If I have to make business calls I will initiate the call or just remember to turn it off if I get a calendar reminder for an incoming call. Maybe it will bite me in the ass at some point but it has been really nice to feel like I actually have some control of my phone again.
- jerkstate 8y ago
  Same here. I also changed my outgoing voicemail message to say that I don't pick up unknown numbers so if you're a real person, leave a voicemail or text me. The voicemail transcription feature on my iphone is rudimentary but works well enough to see at a glance if a voicemail is a sales call or robocall.
  - cityzen 8y ago
    Yea, it's funny how the fear of missing out makes people put up with so much bullshit in their lives. I don't use Facebook, I don't use Twitter, I don't deal with robocalls. I am not missing out on anything other than the high price of not missing out.
syakhmi 8y ago
I got fed up enough to set up custom call filtering with Twilio just this week (sadly neither the iPhone nor Google Voice allows filtering calls to contacts only). https://github.com/syakhmi/spamkiller https://github.com/syakhmi/spamkiller There are good reasons why WhatsApp and the like are replacing phone calls in many countries.
elbelcho 8y ago
Check out Google's call screening feature available on their Pixel phones https://support.google.com/phoneapp/answer/9118387?hl=en https://support.google.com/phoneapp/answer/9118387?hl=en
- amelius 8y ago
  That's nice for keeping marketeers out, but meanwhile you're sharing all your info with the largest advertiser on the planet ...
  - oh_sigh 8y ago
    No it doesn't: https://support.google.com/phoneapp/answer/9118387?hl=en https://support.google.com/phoneapp/answer/9118387?hl=en > Call Screen doesn't save to your Google Account, your Google Assistant Activity page, or to Web and App Activity.
deleted 8y ago
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paul7986 8y ago
Just let me have a phone where only my contacts get to ring it. For those like doctor offices and others who need to reach you make them go to voicemail.
- baddox 8y ago
  Honestly it blows my mind when I’m with someone who answers their phone when it rings with an unknown number. I have literally never done that, save for a handful of occasions where I’m expecting a call. It’s hard to imagine a scenario where it would be someone you would want to talk to.
dmart 8y ago
I agree with the author's premise, and would go even go further and say that nothing should ever be able to steal focus from a user's active application. Ever. In any OS.
thosakwe 8y ago
I would love: Auto-hang up on any call from someone who's number I don't have saved. Just give me a notification immediately thereafter. If it's someone I should know, I'll either have their number saved, or be expecting it. I don't want to be bothered otherwise.
- rsync 8y ago
  This, and many, many other interesting use-cases is quite simple if you port your number to Twilio and create your own carrier inside their service. I did this about 18 months ago and love the results. I manipulate and use the telephone network in many useful and interesting ways, all programatically, through twilio.
snowwrestler 8y ago
My solution to robocalls is to answer them and then be totally silent. After a few seconds, they disconnect. The number of robocalls I receive has plummeted since I started doing this. I receive hardly any these days. My theory is that due to silent answers, the autodialers eventually mark the number as bad, or as a machine-answered number. I have no proof of this, though.
- nikanj 8y ago
  However, your number is still being sold and resold, so every time a new scammer opens shop you start to get calls again.
- todd3834 8y ago
  I'll have to try that out. I've been noticing that most of the calls I was getting were from the same spammy place. I found out if I listen till the end they often have an option to be removed from their list. "Press 2 to be removed", if only it was always 2 that would be too easy. I hate listening to the entire ad but I have been getting a lot less since I've been hanging in there and asking to be removed.
  - albedoa 8y ago
    It is a coincidence. Legitimate operations are not spoofing their numbers in the first place, whereas spoofers have shown themselves to be dishonest by spoofing. So you are not being removed from any spam lists using this method. Not only do they have zero incentive to remove you, they have also received a reliable indication that a human answers your phone.
- RoadieRoller 8y ago
  True, I do the same too. I take the call, mute my phone and keep it as long as the other person wants it. Spam has reduced, one call in the last 3 weeks. It could also be that the spammers are holidaying.
  - matte_black 8y ago
matte_black 8y ago
The idea of a phone call taking up an entire screen and interrupting your activity hearkens back to the days when Apple emphasized that the iPhone should still be prioritized as a phone first. Clearly, people have evolved to richer forms of communication, and phone calls should not be put up on such a high pedestal.
intopieces 8y ago
I’ve completely turned off notifications for the phone. If someone wants to call me, they either need to use FaceTime (which hasn’t been overrun with spam, yet) or schedule a time with me. I also subscribe a call blocker.
- basilgohar 8y ago
  How would someone without an Appke device or AppleID get in touch with you realtime? If all friends and family are already part of the Apple ecosystem, then okay for now, but you also would basically be filtering your communications to only people that fit that description in the future, as well.
  - Rjevski 8y ago
    Signal/Telegram/WhatsApp, which are all cross platform?
  - c1sc0 8y ago
    I do the same & WhatsApp is the answer for me. I am considering ditching that because it’s the last thing I use that is owned by FB though.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - intopieces 8y ago
    People without Apple IDs can’t call me without texting first. I don’t get calls over FaceTime except from my parents anyway, everyone just texts, either iMessages or Signal.
Waterluvian 8y ago
So what's the trick? I've had the same cell number for a decade and I get zero unwanted calls a year. Is it just luck or am I accidentally doing something that keeps my number from being spammed?
- basilgohar 8y ago
  While I don't get zero, I get far fewer than most others commenting here (50+/day!). My wife, on the otherhand, gets more than I do. I sometimes somewhat arrogantly think it's because I have been more careful about giving our my info to untrustworthy sources, not using Facebook, myriad "phone/contact-sucking" apps like Line, Imo, WhatsApp, etc. that others in my family do/have, but then again, I finally caved and started using WhatsApp while abroad due to it being literally as or more important than a traditional line – many services here have WhatsApp-only numbers. I think I've finally lost the battle.
- dpkonofa 8y ago
  Same here. I have a Google Voice number that I give out to companies and a personal number that only my friends get. I haven't had a spam or robocall in at least a decade. Google Voice is nice too because I have it to screen all calls. The ones from actual people include a nice "Call from..." with the accompanying voice of the person identifying themselves.
hi41 8y ago
The other problem is with using third party navigational apps. While driving the phone app takes up the whole screen completely obscuring the directions. My wife constantly rejects calls because of this and I can’t talk to her!
- saagarjha 8y ago
  You can switch apps while in a call.
  - xnyan 8y ago
    Hurtling down the interstate at 70+ mph and I also tend to mash the big red button when I get a call and need my direction.
  - hi41 8y ago
    Doing so could be hazardous. The act of double clicking the home button and then choosing the correct app from several other open apps would take your attention off the next turn and off the road.
VectorLock 8y ago
I don't know hardly anything about telephony protocols, SS7, etc but I'm curious how much information carriers know about where information originates. Say I wanted to run a service offering phone numbers that can connect to VOIP or an app, where I connect to the global telephone network. How much information can I get at the lowest protocol level about where a call originates from? Can I tell the system the call came from? The country?
- Rjevski 8y ago
  You connect to other carriers directly. Some of them will connect you to other carriers, and so on. So for example if you’re a small operation you will just connect to one carrier like Twilio or Nexmo and it’s up to them to connect you to everyone else. When you get bigger you may be able to set up “routes” (that’s how they’re called in the industry) to carriers directly. So yes, carriers do see where the calls are coming from, however given that it’s commonplace to route your calls through a carrier that has no relationship to the originating number, there’s no easy way to tell whether a number is spoofed or not. There is a solution which is to respond to complaints and stop interconnecting with a carrier that spews too much garbage, but that would go against the entire industry’s business model so nobody cares to do it.
fergbrain 8y ago
T-Mobile has a feature that uses the Caller ID to display “Scam Likely”...which is a great stopgap measure and doesn’t cost me extra.
- dawnerd 8y ago
  Still doesn't solve the core problem here. The whole screen being taken over. It's super annoying when on a google meet call or similar to have the call essentially cut you off.
- randyrand 8y ago
  one step further, on tmobile you can block all scam likely calls from ever reaching your phone. google for the instructions how
- bubblethink 8y ago
  That got me thinking. I haven't seen that message in a while, but I've moved from regular android to AOSP. I wonder if that scam likely CID needs some google play support ?
  - kkarakk 8y ago
    google play has plenty of apps that keep track of robocalls via third party solutions. truecaller is an app i used when i was in india getting inundated by robocalls.
    - bubblethink 8y ago
      Right, I meant google play services. AOSP phone app, while quite similar to the stock google phone app, doesn't include this feature.
dgzl 8y ago
As an Android user, I'm kind of shocked that the iPhone doesn't do this, and I'll say that the banner UI is decently better. Though I'm not going to lie, I still think we can do better, and I wouldn't doubt that Apple would just opt for the next generation UI instead of following Android's suit. Sometimes I wonder what subtle differences there are between the two ecosystems, as I've never really gotten into Apple products before, with the exception of a few earlier iPods. Does anyone have confirmed differences that the other side might not understand?
turingbook 8y ago
In China, most Android users have native feature or Apps which can block harassing calls. And every user can label the new unidentified bad call numbers. The crowdsourcing model works well.
philliphaydon 8y ago
We don't have this problem in Singapore. https://www.dnc.gov.sg/index.html https://www.dnc.gov.sg/index.html We have this do not call list. Once added, calls, texts, etc, drop to like nothing. Infact I cannot remember the last time I had a call... I get the occasional text message but it's mostly shops telling me to use my store points before a certain date. A reminder.
- huehehue 8y ago
  We have one of those in the US, but most (99%) of the automated calls I receive are not from legitimate enterprises.
  - mrweasel 8y ago
    Also the US is a much larger target, it's 300 million people that are almost guaranteed to speak English. Targeting countries like Denmark, The Netherlands or other countries where you'd basically need hire native speaker it's financially viable (That's not to say that the problem doesn't exist in these countries, just at a much smaller scale).
    - philliphaydon 8y ago
      Singapore speaks English as a first language. Sounds like the problem is to do with not honoring the do not call list and no punishment for those who don't honor it. Here companies are fined if they call people who are on the list.
- craigds 8y ago
  Or NZ. I think I maybe get a spam call maybe once a year, or less. I haven't changed my phone number for the last 16 years, so I'm sure I'm on all the lists I could be on at this point. Why is this a problem in the US and not elsewhere?
rdlecler1 8y ago
It’s not clear to me why Apple can’t have a Mark as Spam button for calls. Once you hit a critical mass from independent iPhones you simply block that number.
- reefoctopus 8y ago
  They’re spoofing the numbers so that would likely cause apple to blacklist numbers belonging to innocent people.
  - rdlecler1 8y ago
    A lot of them aren’t.
briandear 8y ago
If you are in the “middle of a gaming experience” set to Do Not Disturb and set the option to allow calls from favorites. Meaning, if you are in a situation where a phone call is disruptive, then Do Not Disturb solves that completely, with the option of allowing favorites to get through.
fitzroy 8y ago
I'd like an option similar to the old answering machine / secretary screening for unknown callers: 1. A voice assistant says to the caller "may I ask who's calling [records response] and what is your call in reference to [records response]?" 2. Siri announces the call to me if the phone is not set to Not Disturb mode. 3. I accept the call or decline. If I decline, Siri gives the caller the option to leave an additional message. TL;DR Caller states their name and business before I pick up.
- illnewsthat 8y ago
  This is almost exactly what Google is doing. https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/16/18098714/google-assistant-spam-call-screening-pixel-2-xl https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/16/18098714/google-assistan... > ...you can tap the “screen call” button. Google Assistant will then alert the caller that you’re using a screening service and that you’ll receive a copy of the conversation. From then, you can choose to pick up the call, hang up, or block the number.
  - fitzroy 8y ago
    Oh, that's great (and now I feel validated that my feature requests aren't crazy). Google definitely seems to be ahead in layering on top of traditional telephony to fix the limitations. I've used a Google Voice number for ages for this kind of stuff, and basically just never answer it.
Keverw 8y ago
Also when you take a video and someone calls it ends the video recording - even if you don't decide to answer. So you have to put your phone into airplane mode, which sucks because if you lost your phone before remembering to turn it off then find my iPhone wouldn't work... I wish there was some sort of option to not disturb while doing video... Something you could toggle on and off.
- londons_explore 8y ago
  Get a better 'Phone' app. It's replaceable, and many have truly silent modes for some callers only which won't interrupt anything you're doing.
forgotmyacc 8y ago
Spam has been solved by Bitcoin and email. It's called Proof of work.
vernie 8y ago
No it doesn't. No they aren't.
tokyodude 8y ago
I would like to see this solved via a little regulation and tech industry cooperation that basically discards the entire phone system. Problems that need solving * Robocalls * Companies using SMS for 2FA * Companies still using phone numbers as part of my ID all. I'd much prefer companies contact me first via email/secure-text (whatsapp/line/messenger/...) and only later via secure voip I feel like Google/Apple/Microsoft/Facebook whoever should basically design a new standard to replace the phone system and the government should then mandate that companies must support it (no more asking for phone numbers) I'm sure there are lots of issues. I don't want one id to reach me, like email I want multiple IDs and if you want to know the ID I give you is me then send me a confirmation (I can crypto-sign it if need be) I'm sure it's easier said than done but it does seem like it's getting to the point phone numbers are basically as useless as fax machines. Most people call me via Line, Hangouts, FB, Facetime, etc.. No one calls via phone number
openloop 8y ago
Agree. This is ridiculous.
pndy 8y ago
I'm from Poland and while I never experienced a robocall, I have to deal with telemarketers every now and then because someone somewhere shared my number against my will and while in theory the caller is obligated to disclosure how my number landed in its company database, they're often hanging up in second they're asked or pulling the "it was randomly selected" bullshit, and recently, after GDPR they're giving premium-rated phone numbers claiming that's how you can exclude your number from database which obviously doesn't work. While singing contract for fiber connection, I had to repeat few times that I want to opt-out almost losing nerves talking with agent saying that I'm really not interested having telemarketers clogging my phone even if that means I'll miss a chance to win something - because that's how she tried to advertise that. I could either allow those calls for 5 PLN less on my bill or opt-out for same amount added to it and I did choose the latter. Anyway, there are sites and apps which are trying to "rate" calling numbers and warn other people - most of the times they do good job.
rb666 8y ago
In The Netherlands we have a "no-call register" for companies (https://business.gov.nl/regulation/telesales/#article-do-not-call-me-register https://business.gov.nl/regulation/telesales/#article-do-not...) I never get robocalls. It's nice to live in a country that believes in smart regulation!
- msvan 8y ago
  Same, never hade any problems where I live. Not all problems are technological.
- p49k 8y ago
  We have the same system in the US (the Do Not Call registry) but it’s ineffective because Caller ID can easily be spoofed and these organizations are out of US jurisdiction. Seems more of a technical limitation than a policy one.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- Carpetsmoker 8y ago
  The downside of this is that it won't prevent companies from collecting your data; it just prevents them from calling you. I've always found registering in a database to object to database registrations that I didn't consent to a rather curious concept. If they call me, then at least I know who's brokering my data? I resisted signing up for the no-call register for a long time. For example, this is how I know that TNT/PostNL has sold my data to the post code lottery after I used their post forwarding service (you pay for the service, but they will still sell your data; at least, they did back in ~2011). I once had an extended fight with a charity (hartstichting) where they gave me all sorts of abuse after I insisted they tell me where they got my phone number from. They were offended that I could possibly object to a charity collecting my personal data from mysterious sources (I never found out where they got it from, I gave up pursuing after a while). Eventually I caved it as I grew exasperated and signed up. Now I live abroad and miss stuff like this :-( I got far too many calls when I lived in the UK (including one at 9am on Sunday; I was not especially kind to this person), and in New Zealand they will cram my post box so full of junk mail in just 2-3 days that I can no longer receive any mail :-(
EamonnMR 8y ago
Maybe we should junk the telephone system.
nojvek 8y ago
In India I got a Vodafone sim. Data was dirt cheap. $1.5 for 6GB of data. However Vodafone would spam the shit out of everyone. Getting 10+ spammy calls in a day is very normal. They come from different numbers so you can’t block them. Any phone that has a serious robocall spam filter mechanism built in would be a huge seller. I can count on Apple to make such a bold move. I remember when Telcos used to block personal hotspots and Apple just gave them a middle finger and made iPhones only available to providers that would play by their rules and not the other way around. We need more bold and human centric companies.

268 points by spenvo 8y ago

I have a suggestion. If you receive robocalls from legit companies, I think you can try to sue them. I read an article about this at https://www.whycall.me/news/consumer-wins-massive-229500-robocall-lawsuit-against-time-warner-cable/ https://www.whycall.me/news/consumer-wins-massive-229500-rob.... If those robocalls are coming from scammers, then you could just ignore those calls. There's no way we can stop them, anyway.

btilly 8y ago

I actually would like a regulatory solution for this. Mandate a way for me to say whether incoming calls were spam. Require my phone company to pay me money every time I get spammed. Allow my phone company to, at their option, proactively block calls from specific upstreams and/or pass the charge to the specific upstreams. Now from those incentives, the fines will naturally follow the upstreams to the source of the spam, and provide motivation for them to clean their acts up. Voila! (And if telephone companies decide that they need a more secure protocol to make spamming harder, that's up to them.)

mortenjorck 8y ago
This really is the only way to root out the problem. The carrier networks have to hold the upstream VOIP providers accountable, so the VOIP providers hold their customers who create random spoofed phone numbers accountable.
elliekelly 8y ago
This is a really good idea in theory but my understanding is that a lot of these calls come in from spoofed numbers. So if you're the unlucky person whose number the spammers choose to spoof that day you're already in for a giant headache - getting your phone number blocked would add insult to injury.
- fxj 8y ago
  When the client of the robocaller who wants to sell something is fined then there are soon no more orders for robocaller.
  - btilly 8y ago
    And if you implement that, then you'll get the blackhat approach of paying the robocaller to advertise your competitor's product.
- btilly 8y ago
  The point is to target the spoofing process directly. The incentives should cause VoIP solutions that generate spoofed calls to get kicked out of the phone system. Yes, this would cause false positives. However it is my belief that the general harm from false positives would be less than from current negatives, and that, given incentives, the phone companies should be able to figure it out.
Reason077 8y ago
”I actually would like a regulatory solution for this.” The UK has a solution. It does actually work, mostly: https://www.tpsonline.org.uk/tps/index.html https://www.tpsonline.org.uk/tps/index.html
- sofaofthedamned 8y ago
  It doesn't work, and i'm in the UK too. Bad actors simply ditch their LTD Co when they eventually get a small fine and some use it as a whitelist of active numbers to use. IIRC there was an idea about making directors of companies who flout this personally responsible, I wonder if this happened?
  - redisman 8y ago
    Then the fine/punishment needs to be much harsher right? If it's a slap on the wrist then of course it's not gonna work
  - orf 8y ago
    It works great. I get about 2 calls a year now, and just saying "I'm on the no-call registry" makes them hang up really fast.
- btilly 8y ago
  The USA has a similar solution. See https://www.donotcall.gov/ https://www.donotcall.gov/ for details. Until fairly recently, it also worked pretty well. And still does for legitimate companies doing phone solicitation. (Excepting political parties, because they are exempt from the law.) However spoofers who know that they won't be tracked back to the source don't care about do not call lists.
- Rjevski 8y ago
  It doesn’t work. Only honest callers would follow this. In addition, looking up a number in there is paid which is less than ideal. The service itself is already an inconvenience to its “target market” (aka telemarketers or robocallers) so at least you should make it as easy as possible to use it. I actually worked on a lawful telemarketing operation a few years back (don’t ask - desperate times called for desperate measures) and paying for TPS lookups was both a surprise and a huge problem. The only reason it seems like it works is because the US is a much juicier market for the scammers so most don’t bother with the UK, but I still see people occasionally getting tech support scams or similar so clearly there’s nothing actually preventing them from spamming the UK - for now it’s just that the US is a bigger fish.
fxj 8y ago
In germany robocalls are illegal and the caller can get a huge fine.
- rock_hard 8y ago
  Another terrible solution from German lawmakers that stifles innovation! Instead of figuring out a more measured approach they just made them all illegal :(
  - redisman 8y ago
    Sounds like a 100x better solution than the US where I literally receive spam multiple times per day as phone calls. Why don't you go innovate on something useful?
    - rock_hard 8y ago
      The US situation is also not ideal...but there is also solution in the middle
      - darkpuma 8y ago
        There is no need for a solution in the middle. Whatever sort of robocall "innovation" you have in mind, the world is better off without it.
      - sixothree 8y ago
        Yet you failed to have described one.
  - sho 8y ago
    In your first sentence I thought you were being sarcastic. A little weird, I didn't know German government jokes were a thing, but OK. In your second sentence I realised you weren't. Wow. If this is "innovation", then let it be stifled with all speed.
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
mrweasel 8y ago
> I actually would like a regulatory solution for this. That's actually the only way to go. Adding support for apps to screen your calls, block unknown number or some other feature that requires an action from the user only benefits those who understand the technology and know that it's available. It leaves those most susceptible to fraudulent calls as the only target for scammers. People often forget that those with limited technological understanding, such as the elderly, may need society to step in an actually solve the problems, rather than plastering over them with even more tech.
notatcomputer68 8y ago
Busybody morality police would abuse this to deprive people of their freedom of telephone. Hard no
- Quanttek 8y ago
  Here in Germany - and I believe most of Europe - these calls are illegal and that works perfectly. I have never gotten a robocall on my life and am still free to phone around as much as I want. (Not sure how exactly they are regulated. If they're illegal by themselves or if it's a side-effect from the ban on signing contracts via phone)

rvanmil 8y ago

It's not just robocalls, but any app that uses CallKit. It annoys me to no end that apps like WhatsApp can take over my entire phone with a call and I am unable to disable that like I can with notifications.

elliekelly 8y ago

This annoyance is three-fold when a call from your iPhone also takes over your iPad screen and rings on your MacBook.

vuln 8y ago
I agree it is the worst.
bradleyankrom 8y ago
I turned off the feature that shows calls on my MacBook because of this. It's nice that the UI shows "Scam Likely" as the caller, but maybe give me an option to filter out those calls entirely? Let them go to voicemail or something... who is answering the phone when the caller is unknown and identified by the UI as "Scam Likely"?
- elliekelly 8y ago
  Yes! I would even go so far as to say if the caller isn't in my phonebook let them go to voicemail. Or at least give me the option in settings. If I don't know who's calling they're getting my voicemail 100% of the time.
  - bradleyankrom 8y ago
    Elsewhere in the replies it was suggested that you put your phone on Do Not Disturb and configure it to allow calls from your contacts to get through. That might be a hacky solution?
- traek 8y ago
  That's a T-Mobile feature, not an Apple feature, and you can change your settings to block the calls instead of just ID'ing them. https://www.t-mobile.com/resources/call-protection https://www.t-mobile.com/resources/call-protection
  - bradleyankrom 8y ago

thatswrong0 8y ago

I would love to be able to block all numbers coming from my area code and the first 3 digits of my number.. all my robo calls come from a number that looks just like mine.

mortenjorck 8y ago
I use an app called WideProtect. It's not free, but it's also not a subscription. It lets you do exactly what you describe. As a side note, CallKit on iOS doesn't support wildcard blocking, so WideProtect literally adds all the possible numbers within your specified range to the blocking database. This doesn't impact performance as far as I can tell (maybe calls ring another 100ms after they would normally), but there seems to be a delay of a few minutes after installing for it to show up as a block extension under Settings.
btilly 8y ago
That sounds very useful. But with one exception. As tempting as it may be, my ex should still be able to call me.
jdross 8y ago
There’s a free app called Hiya that does this
mallomarmeasle 8y ago
Certainly the native OS should support this. But I n case you are not aware, third party apps such as Hiya will do this exact thing.
sporf 8y ago
There are apps that do exactly that, e.g. NumberShield for iOS. Blocking calls from numbers with the same first six digit as mine has substantially reduced the amount of robocalls I receive.
mchannon 8y ago
Hear hear. An interesting corner case is when the call is from your exact number. I wonder if the keepers of the POTS (plain old telephone system) can start putting in safeguards to curtail the ability to fake your source phone number. I get that there are myriad instances where this is above board and even necessary, but nobody's proposing any changes.

carlospwk 8y ago

I have no idea what a robocall is but I would LOVE a simple notification banner for when someone calls. I rarely get calls these days but when I do, it’s a major annoyance if I’m doing something on my phone. It’s time calls are relegated to the same level of urgency as WhatsApp messages and emails.

bradleyankrom 8y ago
do you iive outside the U.S.?
- IshKebab 8y ago
  I like in the UK and get maybe 5 robocalls a year. I'm not at all cautious about giving out my phone number and I've had the same number for at least 10 years. Why is this such a problem in America but not elsewhere?
  - bradleyankrom 8y ago
    I'm not an expert, but I would guess that regulation around these kinds of `nuisance` calls is tighter outside the U.S. We (in the U.S.) have a National Do Not Call Registry[0] but I don't know how strong the enforcement of violations is. With scammers, I think much of the problem is that they're using VoIP and other technologies that make it difficult to pin down exactly who is making the calls, and from where. [0] https://www.donotcall.gov https://www.donotcall.gov
  - kokokokoko 8y ago
    It's not. Robocalls are one of those things that really upsets a small subset of people either because they are overly sensitive to robocalls or that they are a member of that unlucky subset that does receive a very high amount. Like most things in the social media era, the grievances of a very vocal minority appear to be a larger group than they actually are. For example, the title of the article tells us that robocalls are "killing us".
    - 8y ago

mikestew 8y ago

AFAIK, it's still the case that I can't block everything but numbers in my contacts, right? That's all I'm asking, and it can't be that hard. Add that simple feature that should have been there ten years ago and the problem is solved for me.

javery 8y ago
You can do this, just set your phone to Do Not Disturb and then set it to "allow calls from my contacts"
- mikestew 8y ago
  I've seen that, but doesn't it take SMS/iMessages with it? IOW, I won't be notified of messages no matter who sends it? Regardless, it's just phone calls I want to block, I don't get enough spam SMS to care about who is sending it. I guess I'm going to have to fiddle around with when the wife gets home and gather some empirical evidence.
  - stock_toaster 8y ago
    > I've seen that, but doesn't it take SMS/iMessages with it? Indeed it does, which makes it a non-solution for me. I apparently have the same desire you do - an option for voice calls to go direct to voicemail unless they are in my favorites list, without having to use the more general Do Not Disturb mode.
  - mdhen 8y ago
    On Samsung phones you can allow texts from noon contact numbers even if you are blocking calls. You also can allow any alarms through.
- charlesju 8y ago
  This is only partially true on iOS. It doesn't take into account when you're using the phone, then it just lets everything through. Which is SUPPERRRRR annoying.

deckar01 8y ago

It is a phone. If you need uninterrupted productivity, use any other type of personal computing device.

Bud 8y ago
Not a solution, for obvious reasons which have already been covered. These alerts show up on your other devices as well. Furthermore, your bias aside, the fact is that phones are the primary productivity device for hundreds of millions of users.
mikestew 8y ago
It's not a phone to me, it's a pocket computer with shovelware telephony that I'd rather do without. Just give me a data pipe, I'll figure out the voice communication part.
justusthane 8y ago
What a weird argument. Just because it can receive phone calls doesn't mean that you shouldn't also be able to be uninterrupted if you like.
Nadya 8y ago
It is a mobile computing device that happens to be able to take calls. "Smart phones" are "phones" in only so much that they can make phone calls. I've used my smart phone to make a call one time in the past 8 years. For me, it simply isn't a phone. Most of my peers use their mobile computing devices to browse the internet, schedule things, and play games. Very, very few of them use it to make phone calls and those that do are calling family or their SO a majority of the time.
dextersgenius 8y ago
> It is a phone. If you need uninterrupted productivity, use any other type of personal computing device. Phones have stopped being just phones for a while now. Modern smartphones are full fledged computing devices and are a key productivity tool for many users. Personally I hardly even use the phone feature to justify calling my device a phone. I make maybe one or two traditional phone calls a month, as most of my day-to-day communications is done over the Internet.

robmiller 8y ago

It's amazing that calendar invitation spam isn't more prevalent. The times it has happened to me have been incredibly infuriating because declining means a response to the spammer and ignoring can leave it on your calendar.

Anechoic 8y ago
If using a recent version of Apple's calendar, you should get a "decline but don't notify" option. Another workaround is to make a new calendar, transfer that appointment to the new calendar, and then delete that calendar. It shouldn't be necessary, but here we are.
saagarjha 8y ago
There is a nontrivial amount of effort on Apple’s side going on here to identify and block calendar spammers.

awakeasleep 8y ago

"At the telelphony-infrastructure level, it’s a supremely difficult problem that lacks a short-term fix because the underlying protocol is hopelessly insecure." This is only partly true. Technologically the solution is difficult, but it's easy from the social side as carriers can blacklist the smaller carriers that allow this fraud to take place. The real problem is that everyone except the consumer benefits from this. Every phone company in the chain from the scammer to you takes a penny out of the scammer's profits. At this point these scam phone calls may be nearing the majority of the phone calls placed in the USA, so it's going to be a huge financial disruption to the carriers when they have to give up their game.

tdeck 8y ago
Why hasn't there been a class action against carriers for failing to do anything about this problem?
- nradov 8y ago
  Which law or contact term have the carriers broken?
  - tdeck 8y ago
    Not sure. But they provide a service called Caller ID that purports to identity callers but can be trivially spoofed by people scamming their customers. Moreover, caller ID used to actually work (IE couldn't be trivially spoofed), so customers might have a reasonable expectation that it still does work. It's the telco's responsibility to present accurate caller information to customers.
    - nradov 8y ago
      Caller ID could always be trivially spoofed. It's just that most scammers didn't previously bother to do it. Telcos currently have no legal responsibility to present accurate caller information to customers. That would require a new law.
  - 8y ago

Bud 8y ago

Or we could actually fix the problem and make the do-not-call list laws much stronger and put some enforcement behind them.

kuschku 8y ago

Isn't this exactly what Android already does?

smelendez 8y ago
Yes, Android has improved on this front. It now treats incoming calls and voicemails basically like any notification and ongoing calls like any other app with an active notification.

gumby 8y ago

Apple provides a fix: get an Apple Watch and make your phone silent. Then you get a notification on your watch which you can suppress by placing your hand over it. I make this comment in jest because obviously this is a very user-unfriendly "solution" unless you planned to buy an apple watch for some other reason. However I do use this feature. As for the post's comment that dismissing the call leaks info: I don't know what the predictive dialers have any understanding of this -- if you simply refuse to answer it's simply a disconnect. I also doubt they keep stats on calls that go to vmail, if you accidentally do that or if you refuse to answer.

ddingus 8y ago
I have heard this suggested in all seriousness.
lsc 8y ago
I have an apple watch... it doesn't solve the problem that if I answer a call that is not from a contact, it is 9/10ths spam, so I simply don't answer calls not on my contact list, and thus sometimes miss important calls from businesses that don't text.

akerl_ 8y ago

Apple added hooks a while back so that 3rd party apps can interject into the call process, and I've been using https://hiya.com https://hiya.com to do that and block scam calls. I have it set to disregard suspected scam/fraud calls, so they never ring my phone.

mortenjorck 8y ago

Since the phone companies are too busy trying to build content empires rather than working to improve their core competencies, it's time for Apple to step up the call-blocking experience at the OS level. The addition of a call-blocking API was a very good first step, but the time is fast arriving when robust blocking patterns will be table stakes similar to what basic email spam filtering is today.

elsonrodriguez 8y ago
I'd give it a year before they buy someone like Hiya.

brian_herman__ 8y ago

I use callblocking software to mitigate this robokiller. It costs 2.99 per month but I get signifiantly less robo calls and it allows you to put custom answer messages for the robo calls.

TrainedMonkey 8y ago

Mr. Number does a pretty food job of blocking known robocallers and 'neighborhood' callers.

nyjah 8y ago

Tapping Decline is not a great option because it actually tells the robocaller that you’re with your phone and are annoyed by the call, information I’d rather not give. Call me paranoid, but I take it a step further and absolutely believe whatever cold call company is calling knows when my phone is moving, or I am around it. I am the type of person that doesn't carry their phone all the time, I usually keep it in my home and work in barn next door, but I notice I don't have many missed called from bullshit numbers. Not saying all, but the majority of these calls are coming when I am around my phone. Anyone else experience anything like this? edit: lol to ianlevesque quick paranoid response, but start paying attention I dont think its too far fetched. I imagine some code that has some sort of delay to wait for the phone to move or what so long after it is moved to then start to ring. Its not like there is anyone on the other line half the time or it will just hang up. I dont understand robocalls at all.

pavel_lishin 8y ago
Maybe there's a pattern to when you are around your phone, and when you aren't. Most of my robocalls are during the day - when I'm at a desk, with my phone. In the evening when my phone is away from me appears to be a less popular time to call.
ianlevesque 8y ago
Yes, you are paranoid.
- tefferon 8y ago
  no, I think OP is on to something here
  - fjp 8y ago
    No I work in telecom and he's not onto anything. It's technically impossible for one, and the ROI wouldn't be there even if it was. The ROI on spray and pray is high enough. (EDIT: Not as high as like actual legit telecommunications services but it takes a tiny fraction of the expertise.) Literally all the information they need is your phone number. They just spoof the "from" number, often to appear to be a toll-free number or a number in your area code and crank out as many calls as their carriers will let them without shutting them down. The underlying costs are cheap enough where only a teeeeensy percentage of people have to fall for it for it to be worth it.

izacus 8y ago

I never get robocalls in Europe - what's different here? Why does USA have this huge problem with spam calls and most of Europe doesn't? Is spam blocking on OS level really the right approach to fix this problem?

diebeforei485 8y ago
> Why does USA have this huge problem with spam calls and most of Europe doesn't? Presumably because (1) it's much easier to find English speakers in countries where most robocalls actually originate, and (2) the same model can scale to 320M recipients with very little marginal effort.
- nicky0 8y ago
  Surely in Germany robocallers woul call people in German.
  - thirdsun 8y ago
    That was the point of the parent poster. Why bother with german and other much less common languages when you could just target a de facto global language that both your victims as well as those responsible for those scams know?

pocketstar 8y ago

imo the best way to combat this is to answer the call and waste as much of the scammers time as possible. Call spamming only scales because most people ignore or hangup immediately. If you waste 30seconds of a scammers time thats 30 more people they cant call. And that 30 seconds costs THEM money. I just answer say “hi” to start the recording and leave the phone on my desk until they hangup. Perhaps i dont completely understand the backend but if more people wasted the scammers time it would quickly become too expensive for them to continue.

ap3 8y ago
How much is your time worth vs the robocallers ?
- quicklime 8y ago
  When I was getting robocalls a while back, I started saying "hi" and letting them talk, then I'd put the phone on mute and continue whatever I was doing. The calls stopped a few weeks after that. Usually this would take about 10 seconds of my time, and about 90 seconds of theirs, per call. I'm pretty sure that over the long term, it costs me less time as it made the problem completely go away. Things that I'd tried before that, that didn't work, include: immediately hanging up, politely and no-so-politely asking them not to call back.

seanwilson 8y ago

> And disrupt they do, at a massive scale. Several billion fake calls are received each month in the US. Reports show this is a global problem, with Brazilians averaging 37 spam calls per month. Actually, I’m getting a robocall as I type this very sentence, my second today. Is there a reason this isn't as prevalent in the UK? I get maybe 2 calls a month like this. Are robocallers in the UK more likely to get in trouble maybe? Putting this on Apple isn't addressing the core of the problem.

jchw 8y ago

Fwiw, Android actually does do this. When the phone is unlocked, calls show up as a banner. In addition, they added that new call screening option, I've been using it and so far it has worked fairly well. Also, there is some built-in call filtering and third party apps as well, though I have mostly been able to rely on the built-in filtering. Does iOS really not have any options for filtering? I swear last time I had an iPhone (running iOS9) there was Something... but then again, I was jailbroken. It's a bit funny that we got full web browsers on phones before proper call filtering. (Disclaimer: I work for Google but not on phones.)

spenvo 8y ago
Excellent, I'll add this to the article. No idea why my post went from #1 on HN to the third page in under 30 minutes, I thought we were having a fruitful discussion here
- hu3 8y ago
  Not sure if this has been mentioned but Android's DnD mode allows granular settings including blocking non-contact calls: https://i.imgur.com/ZcRSXlK.png https://i.imgur.com/ZcRSXlK.png
em-bee 8y ago
i was jailbroken made me think of i was heartbroken :-)
saagarjha 8y ago
iOS has had the ability to block certain numbers for a while. iOS 11 adds IdentityLookup, a framework for blocking unwanted calls and messages.

fxj 8y ago

robocalls are illegal in germany. They are called unerlaubte Telefonwerbung and one energy company got fined with 140.000 euros. https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/DE/Sachgebiete/Telekommunikation/Verbraucher/UnerlaubteTelefonwerbung/unerlaubtetelefonwerbung-node.html https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/DE/Sachgebiete/Telekommunik... FTA: After the E wie Einfach GmbH had found agencies for the advertising measures, obviously no more control took place. Therefore the E.ON daughter is occupied now with a fine of 140.000 euro. Because as a client of the call actions it must guarantee the adherence to the legal principles. This includes above all that in each individual case an explicit consent of the consumers is present. The client is responsible for this, even if the telephone calls are carried out by subcontractors. However, the decision of the Federal Network Agency is not yet legally binding: the electricity supplier can appeal the fine in court. Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator https://www.e-recht24.de/news/telekommunikation/10928-unerlaubte-telefonwerbung-140-000-euro-strafe-fuer-energieversorger.html https://www.e-recht24.de/news/telekommunikation/10928-unerla...

anticensor 8y ago
> unerlaubte Telefonwerbung "Illegal phone advertising" for those do not speak German.

troydavis 8y ago

The eventual fix will be adopting ATIS SHAKEN and STIR protocols, which is, very roughly, signed caller ID. The FCC is now demanding it of carriers: https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-354933A1.pdf https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-354933A1.pdf (Background and open letters to carriers: https://www.fcc.gov/document/chairman-pai-demands-industry-adopt-protocols-end-illegal-spoofing https://www.fcc.gov/document/chairman-pai-demands-industry-a...) How it works, short version: https://transnexus.com/blog/2017/stop-spoofed-robocalls-with-stir-and-shaken/ https://transnexus.com/blog/2017/stop-spoofed-robocalls-with... How it works, long version: http://www.atis.org/01_resources/whitepapers/#shaken-studies http://www.atis.org/01_resources/whitepapers/#shaken-studies (find in page for “SHAKEN” and “Caller ID”)

sofaofthedamned 8y ago
Apologies for not reading through these links, but does this fix just the caller-id issue, or the routing issue - i.e. routing an SMS to a bad actor?
- Rjevski 8y ago
  Just caller ID, and even then it seems like it’s between service providers only - you have to trust your carrier to validate signatures and reject bad/missing ones.

bassman9000 8y ago

Right now, any robocall hacker in the world can instantly take over your phone’s screen, knocking you out of your mobile gaming experience, disrupting you as you check out at the store, or breaking your concentration as you try and type out an email. jesus christ, call james bond, this is a super-villain grade world domination issue

JumpCrisscross 8y ago

> I would love to be able to block all numbers coming from my area code and the first 3 digits of my number.. all my robo calls come from a number that looks just like mine Somewhat humorously, this has destroyed my ability to receive phone calls from my home town. I instinctively hang up and block.

code4tee 8y ago

Because my phone number is not from where I actually live and most of these robocallers fake a number from your local exchange, seeing a number that looks like mine pop up basically tells me right away it’s a robocall since nobody calls me from that exchange. Whole thing is still incredibly annoying though and problem is getting worse.

org3432 8y ago

So the garbage dump we call a USPS mailbox doesn't rise to the same level of concern for some reason still?

win2020 8y ago
USPS gets paid to deliver spam... why would they want to stop it? actually, they even give cheaper rates to the spammers because they spam so much...
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  Isn't it the same for telcos and telemarketers/robocalls?
javagram 8y ago
The USPS mailbox can be consumed asynchronously. Isn’t it possible to opt out of a lot of bulk mail anyway? Bulk mail can never be as bad as online spam since it’s much more expensive to mail and easier to trace a sender.
- org3432 8y ago
  It's effectively the same as opting out of these robo calls, there's a FTC list for both and yet it has zero effect. I also get 99.9% junk mail, so it's easy to lose actual mail in the pile.
nikanj 8y ago
I’ve never been woken at 4am by a spam mailer delivered by USPS

cityzen 8y ago

About a year ago I put my phone on DND and have left it on ever since. My wife and the kids school are in my favorites so they can get through. If I have to make business calls I will initiate the call or just remember to turn it off if I get a calendar reminder for an incoming call. Maybe it will bite me in the ass at some point but it has been really nice to feel like I actually have some control of my phone again.

jerkstate 8y ago
Same here. I also changed my outgoing voicemail message to say that I don't pick up unknown numbers so if you're a real person, leave a voicemail or text me. The voicemail transcription feature on my iphone is rudimentary but works well enough to see at a glance if a voicemail is a sales call or robocall.
- cityzen 8y ago
  Yea, it's funny how the fear of missing out makes people put up with so much bullshit in their lives. I don't use Facebook, I don't use Twitter, I don't deal with robocalls. I am not missing out on anything other than the high price of not missing out.

syakhmi 8y ago

I got fed up enough to set up custom call filtering with Twilio just this week (sadly neither the iPhone nor Google Voice allows filtering calls to contacts only). https://github.com/syakhmi/spamkiller https://github.com/syakhmi/spamkiller There are good reasons why WhatsApp and the like are replacing phone calls in many countries.

elbelcho 8y ago

Check out Google's call screening feature available on their Pixel phones https://support.google.com/phoneapp/answer/9118387?hl=en https://support.google.com/phoneapp/answer/9118387?hl=en

amelius 8y ago
That's nice for keeping marketeers out, but meanwhile you're sharing all your info with the largest advertiser on the planet ...
- oh_sigh 8y ago
  No it doesn't: https://support.google.com/phoneapp/answer/9118387?hl=en https://support.google.com/phoneapp/answer/9118387?hl=en > Call Screen doesn't save to your Google Account, your Google Assistant Activity page, or to Web and App Activity.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

paul7986 8y ago

Just let me have a phone where only my contacts get to ring it. For those like doctor offices and others who need to reach you make them go to voicemail.

baddox 8y ago
Honestly it blows my mind when I’m with someone who answers their phone when it rings with an unknown number. I have literally never done that, save for a handful of occasions where I’m expecting a call. It’s hard to imagine a scenario where it would be someone you would want to talk to.

dmart 8y ago

I agree with the author's premise, and would go even go further and say that nothing should ever be able to steal focus from a user's active application. Ever. In any OS.

thosakwe 8y ago

I would love: Auto-hang up on any call from someone who's number I don't have saved. Just give me a notification immediately thereafter. If it's someone I should know, I'll either have their number saved, or be expecting it. I don't want to be bothered otherwise.

rsync 8y ago
This, and many, many other interesting use-cases is quite simple if you port your number to Twilio and create your own carrier inside their service. I did this about 18 months ago and love the results. I manipulate and use the telephone network in many useful and interesting ways, all programatically, through twilio.

snowwrestler 8y ago

My solution to robocalls is to answer them and then be totally silent. After a few seconds, they disconnect. The number of robocalls I receive has plummeted since I started doing this. I receive hardly any these days. My theory is that due to silent answers, the autodialers eventually mark the number as bad, or as a machine-answered number. I have no proof of this, though.

nikanj 8y ago
However, your number is still being sold and resold, so every time a new scammer opens shop you start to get calls again.
todd3834 8y ago
I'll have to try that out. I've been noticing that most of the calls I was getting were from the same spammy place. I found out if I listen till the end they often have an option to be removed from their list. "Press 2 to be removed", if only it was always 2 that would be too easy. I hate listening to the entire ad but I have been getting a lot less since I've been hanging in there and asking to be removed.
- albedoa 8y ago
  It is a coincidence. Legitimate operations are not spoofing their numbers in the first place, whereas spoofers have shown themselves to be dishonest by spoofing. So you are not being removed from any spam lists using this method. Not only do they have zero incentive to remove you, they have also received a reliable indication that a human answers your phone.
RoadieRoller 8y ago
True, I do the same too. I take the call, mute my phone and keep it as long as the other person wants it. Spam has reduced, one call in the last 3 weeks. It could also be that the spammers are holidaying.
- matte_black 8y ago

matte_black 8y ago

The idea of a phone call taking up an entire screen and interrupting your activity hearkens back to the days when Apple emphasized that the iPhone should still be prioritized as a phone first. Clearly, people have evolved to richer forms of communication, and phone calls should not be put up on such a high pedestal.

intopieces 8y ago

I’ve completely turned off notifications for the phone. If someone wants to call me, they either need to use FaceTime (which hasn’t been overrun with spam, yet) or schedule a time with me. I also subscribe a call blocker.

basilgohar 8y ago
How would someone without an Appke device or AppleID get in touch with you realtime? If all friends and family are already part of the Apple ecosystem, then okay for now, but you also would basically be filtering your communications to only people that fit that description in the future, as well.
- Rjevski 8y ago
  Signal/Telegram/WhatsApp, which are all cross platform?
- c1sc0 8y ago
  I do the same & WhatsApp is the answer for me. I am considering ditching that because it’s the last thing I use that is owned by FB though.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- intopieces 8y ago
  People without Apple IDs can’t call me without texting first. I don’t get calls over FaceTime except from my parents anyway, everyone just texts, either iMessages or Signal.

Waterluvian 8y ago

So what's the trick? I've had the same cell number for a decade and I get zero unwanted calls a year. Is it just luck or am I accidentally doing something that keeps my number from being spammed?

basilgohar 8y ago
While I don't get zero, I get far fewer than most others commenting here (50+/day!). My wife, on the otherhand, gets more than I do. I sometimes somewhat arrogantly think it's because I have been more careful about giving our my info to untrustworthy sources, not using Facebook, myriad "phone/contact-sucking" apps like Line, Imo, WhatsApp, etc. that others in my family do/have, but then again, I finally caved and started using WhatsApp while abroad due to it being literally as or more important than a traditional line – many services here have WhatsApp-only numbers. I think I've finally lost the battle.
dpkonofa 8y ago
Same here. I have a Google Voice number that I give out to companies and a personal number that only my friends get. I haven't had a spam or robocall in at least a decade. Google Voice is nice too because I have it to screen all calls. The ones from actual people include a nice "Call from..." with the accompanying voice of the person identifying themselves.

hi41 8y ago

The other problem is with using third party navigational apps. While driving the phone app takes up the whole screen completely obscuring the directions. My wife constantly rejects calls because of this and I can’t talk to her!

saagarjha 8y ago
You can switch apps while in a call.
- xnyan 8y ago
  Hurtling down the interstate at 70+ mph and I also tend to mash the big red button when I get a call and need my direction.
- hi41 8y ago
  Doing so could be hazardous. The act of double clicking the home button and then choosing the correct app from several other open apps would take your attention off the next turn and off the road.

VectorLock 8y ago

I don't know hardly anything about telephony protocols, SS7, etc but I'm curious how much information carriers know about where information originates. Say I wanted to run a service offering phone numbers that can connect to VOIP or an app, where I connect to the global telephone network. How much information can I get at the lowest protocol level about where a call originates from? Can I tell the system the call came from? The country?

Rjevski 8y ago
You connect to other carriers directly. Some of them will connect you to other carriers, and so on. So for example if you’re a small operation you will just connect to one carrier like Twilio or Nexmo and it’s up to them to connect you to everyone else. When you get bigger you may be able to set up “routes” (that’s how they’re called in the industry) to carriers directly. So yes, carriers do see where the calls are coming from, however given that it’s commonplace to route your calls through a carrier that has no relationship to the originating number, there’s no easy way to tell whether a number is spoofed or not. There is a solution which is to respond to complaints and stop interconnecting with a carrier that spews too much garbage, but that would go against the entire industry’s business model so nobody cares to do it.

fergbrain 8y ago

T-Mobile has a feature that uses the Caller ID to display “Scam Likely”...which is a great stopgap measure and doesn’t cost me extra.

dawnerd 8y ago
Still doesn't solve the core problem here. The whole screen being taken over. It's super annoying when on a google meet call or similar to have the call essentially cut you off.
randyrand 8y ago
one step further, on tmobile you can block all scam likely calls from ever reaching your phone. google for the instructions how
bubblethink 8y ago
That got me thinking. I haven't seen that message in a while, but I've moved from regular android to AOSP. I wonder if that scam likely CID needs some google play support ?
- kkarakk 8y ago
  google play has plenty of apps that keep track of robocalls via third party solutions. truecaller is an app i used when i was in india getting inundated by robocalls.
  - bubblethink 8y ago
    Right, I meant google play services. AOSP phone app, while quite similar to the stock google phone app, doesn't include this feature.

dgzl 8y ago

As an Android user, I'm kind of shocked that the iPhone doesn't do this, and I'll say that the banner UI is decently better. Though I'm not going to lie, I still think we can do better, and I wouldn't doubt that Apple would just opt for the next generation UI instead of following Android's suit. Sometimes I wonder what subtle differences there are between the two ecosystems, as I've never really gotten into Apple products before, with the exception of a few earlier iPods. Does anyone have confirmed differences that the other side might not understand?

turingbook 8y ago

In China, most Android users have native feature or Apps which can block harassing calls. And every user can label the new unidentified bad call numbers. The crowdsourcing model works well.

philliphaydon 8y ago

We don't have this problem in Singapore. https://www.dnc.gov.sg/index.html https://www.dnc.gov.sg/index.html We have this do not call list. Once added, calls, texts, etc, drop to like nothing. Infact I cannot remember the last time I had a call... I get the occasional text message but it's mostly shops telling me to use my store points before a certain date. A reminder.

huehehue 8y ago
We have one of those in the US, but most (99%) of the automated calls I receive are not from legitimate enterprises.
- mrweasel 8y ago
  Also the US is a much larger target, it's 300 million people that are almost guaranteed to speak English. Targeting countries like Denmark, The Netherlands or other countries where you'd basically need hire native speaker it's financially viable (That's not to say that the problem doesn't exist in these countries, just at a much smaller scale).
  - philliphaydon 8y ago
    Singapore speaks English as a first language. Sounds like the problem is to do with not honoring the do not call list and no punishment for those who don't honor it. Here companies are fined if they call people who are on the list.
craigds 8y ago
Or NZ. I think I maybe get a spam call maybe once a year, or less. I haven't changed my phone number for the last 16 years, so I'm sure I'm on all the lists I could be on at this point. Why is this a problem in the US and not elsewhere?

rdlecler1 8y ago

It’s not clear to me why Apple can’t have a Mark as Spam button for calls. Once you hit a critical mass from independent iPhones you simply block that number.

reefoctopus 8y ago
They’re spoofing the numbers so that would likely cause apple to blacklist numbers belonging to innocent people.
- rdlecler1 8y ago
  A lot of them aren’t.

briandear 8y ago

If you are in the “middle of a gaming experience” set to Do Not Disturb and set the option to allow calls from favorites. Meaning, if you are in a situation where a phone call is disruptive, then Do Not Disturb solves that completely, with the option of allowing favorites to get through.

fitzroy 8y ago

I'd like an option similar to the old answering machine / secretary screening for unknown callers: 1. A voice assistant says to the caller "may I ask who's calling [records response] and what is your call in reference to [records response]?" 2. Siri announces the call to me if the phone is not set to Not Disturb mode. 3. I accept the call or decline. If I decline, Siri gives the caller the option to leave an additional message. TL;DR Caller states their name and business before I pick up.

illnewsthat 8y ago
This is almost exactly what Google is doing. https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/16/18098714/google-assistant-spam-call-screening-pixel-2-xl https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/16/18098714/google-assistan... > ...you can tap the “screen call” button. Google Assistant will then alert the caller that you’re using a screening service and that you’ll receive a copy of the conversation. From then, you can choose to pick up the call, hang up, or block the number.
- fitzroy 8y ago
  Oh, that's great (and now I feel validated that my feature requests aren't crazy). Google definitely seems to be ahead in layering on top of traditional telephony to fix the limitations. I've used a Google Voice number for ages for this kind of stuff, and basically just never answer it.

Keverw 8y ago

Also when you take a video and someone calls it ends the video recording - even if you don't decide to answer. So you have to put your phone into airplane mode, which sucks because if you lost your phone before remembering to turn it off then find my iPhone wouldn't work... I wish there was some sort of option to not disturb while doing video... Something you could toggle on and off.

londons_explore 8y ago
Get a better 'Phone' app. It's replaceable, and many have truly silent modes for some callers only which won't interrupt anything you're doing.

forgotmyacc 8y ago

Spam has been solved by Bitcoin and email. It's called Proof of work.

vernie 8y ago

No it doesn't. No they aren't.

tokyodude 8y ago

I would like to see this solved via a little regulation and tech industry cooperation that basically discards the entire phone system. Problems that need solving * Robocalls * Companies using SMS for 2FA * Companies still using phone numbers as part of my ID all. I'd much prefer companies contact me first via email/secure-text (whatsapp/line/messenger/...) and only later via secure voip I feel like Google/Apple/Microsoft/Facebook whoever should basically design a new standard to replace the phone system and the government should then mandate that companies must support it (no more asking for phone numbers) I'm sure there are lots of issues. I don't want one id to reach me, like email I want multiple IDs and if you want to know the ID I give you is me then send me a confirmation (I can crypto-sign it if need be) I'm sure it's easier said than done but it does seem like it's getting to the point phone numbers are basically as useless as fax machines. Most people call me via Line, Hangouts, FB, Facetime, etc.. No one calls via phone number

openloop 8y ago

Agree. This is ridiculous.

pndy 8y ago

I'm from Poland and while I never experienced a robocall, I have to deal with telemarketers every now and then because someone somewhere shared my number against my will and while in theory the caller is obligated to disclosure how my number landed in its company database, they're often hanging up in second they're asked or pulling the "it was randomly selected" bullshit, and recently, after GDPR they're giving premium-rated phone numbers claiming that's how you can exclude your number from database which obviously doesn't work. While singing contract for fiber connection, I had to repeat few times that I want to opt-out almost losing nerves talking with agent saying that I'm really not interested having telemarketers clogging my phone even if that means I'll miss a chance to win something - because that's how she tried to advertise that. I could either allow those calls for 5 PLN less on my bill or opt-out for same amount added to it and I did choose the latter. Anyway, there are sites and apps which are trying to "rate" calling numbers and warn other people - most of the times they do good job.

rb666 8y ago

In The Netherlands we have a "no-call register" for companies (https://business.gov.nl/regulation/telesales/#article-do-not-call-me-register https://business.gov.nl/regulation/telesales/#article-do-not...) I never get robocalls. It's nice to live in a country that believes in smart regulation!

msvan 8y ago
Same, never hade any problems where I live. Not all problems are technological.
p49k 8y ago
We have the same system in the US (the Do Not Call registry) but it’s ineffective because Caller ID can easily be spoofed and these organizations are out of US jurisdiction. Seems more of a technical limitation than a policy one.
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Carpetsmoker 8y ago
The downside of this is that it won't prevent companies from collecting your data; it just prevents them from calling you. I've always found registering in a database to object to database registrations that I didn't consent to a rather curious concept. If they call me, then at least I know who's brokering my data? I resisted signing up for the no-call register for a long time. For example, this is how I know that TNT/PostNL has sold my data to the post code lottery after I used their post forwarding service (you pay for the service, but they will still sell your data; at least, they did back in ~2011). I once had an extended fight with a charity (hartstichting) where they gave me all sorts of abuse after I insisted they tell me where they got my phone number from. They were offended that I could possibly object to a charity collecting my personal data from mysterious sources (I never found out where they got it from, I gave up pursuing after a while). Eventually I caved it as I grew exasperated and signed up. Now I live abroad and miss stuff like this :-( I got far too many calls when I lived in the UK (including one at 9am on Sunday; I was not especially kind to this person), and in New Zealand they will cram my post box so full of junk mail in just 2-3 days that I can no longer receive any mail :-(

EamonnMR 8y ago

Maybe we should junk the telephone system.

nojvek 8y ago

In India I got a Vodafone sim. Data was dirt cheap. $1.5 for 6GB of data. However Vodafone would spam the shit out of everyone. Getting 10+ spammy calls in a day is very normal. They come from different numbers so you can’t block them. Any phone that has a serious robocall spam filter mechanism built in would be a huge seller. I can count on Apple to make such a bold move. I remember when Telcos used to block personal hotspots and Apple just gave them a middle finger and made iPhones only available to providers that would play by their rules and not the other way around. We need more bold and human centric companies.