16 ms·

A Dollar Store Backlash Has Begun

123 points by DocFeind 8y ago

Yhippa 8y ago
Every year for Christmas my wife continues a small family tradition: every year we go there and buy stocking stuffers for our small family. It's definitely a different experience than going to a grocery store for sure. It's almost like you have a department store or modern pharmacies like CVS with the food capabilities of a gas station or 7-Eleven. I can see why it would appeal to lower-income families. If you assume they are short on time you can probably get all your shopping done in one place. It's definitely smaller than a grocery store and there are fewer options. I think this helps because if you're short on time and trying to get in and out of there you have to spend less time in the store and there's less cognitive overload trying to figure out what to get. Most grocery stores I've been to have unit prices somewhere on the shelf. They're noticeably absent and I have to do the math sometimes. I can understand residents being upset about these stores being subsidized by local government. It makes me wonder what the alternate solutions are. I assume they're getting subsidized since stores are fleeing or they don't want to open up shop. If that's true I don't think those stores are coming back unless they're even more heavily subsidized. Is the solution more Aldi's or Lidl's? I've found that there's a "feel bad" for me going in those stores compared to a normal grocery store.
- perardi 8y ago
  Aldi's can be a bit drab, but the actual quality is fantastic. (I don't understand how Aldi's has the best fresh pineapples.)
  - Symbiote 8y ago
    Good logistics is one of Aldi's strengths in Europe, so I assume they've taken that experience to the USA. That also have less range of products, which might mean they sell more pineapples as there are fewer alternatives.
  - rudolph9 8y ago
    Yes! And more and more they have organic or no pesticides food. Aldi is the store I miss most since leaving the Midwest :/ such good fresh food for relatively little money
- thelasthuman 8y ago
  Aldis is my favorite store. All other grocery stores are obsolete.
pascalxus 8y ago
You really have to differentiate between the food that's offered at a dollar store and everything else. I shop at the dollar store for things like shampoo, deodrant, toothpaste and it's superb deal, not in any way making me poorer. on the contrary it saves me money. for groceries, you should shop somewhere else, unless your looking for dog food. the reason there aren't more grocery stores selling good food is because no one wants that. Consumers are in charge and they've spoken loud and clear: consumers prefer processed foods, sodas, chips, things placed in boxes and plastic. I've even seen parent who boycott schools trying to remove cookies from the lunch menu. At a certain point, people need to start making good decisions about what they buy. and yes, you can buy healthy AND cheap. Rolled oats (aka oatmeal is available for 50c to 1$ per lb, even here in the CA!) . and that's 22 times cheaper than a meal at McDonalds. Compare => 3 meals at mcDonalds => 22$ vs Oatmeal 1 lb = 1600 calories which makes it about 1$ per day. And oatmeal is high in fiber, protein and countless minerals, super low in saturated fat, extremely low in sodium and sugar. Sure, you'd want to add a couple of fruits to your basket: there's bananas for 55c per pound!, etc. I ate oatmeal almost everyday for lunch for a year and it lowered my LDL cholesterol by 60 points! it's a real cholesterol fighter. And, if you do the math on everything, you can find great deals in veggies to: potatoes, onions, Beans, Corn (super highly subsidized), and the occassional costco spinach. Once we start choosing good foods, stores will have no choice but to start selling more of that. Let the backlash begin!
- njarboe 8y ago
  "consumers prefer processed foods, sodas, chips, things placed in boxes and plastic" These things also last on the shelves for a very long time. Grains can store well, but other products like meat, fruits, vegetables, quality baked goods, etc. don't.
  - pascalxus 8y ago
    meat is carcinogenic. as for fruits and vegetables, i'm hoping that someday the local food production revolution will start picking up steam and help make these more cost effective, perhaps with some automation or vertical farming. for now, focus on things you can get for less than 1$/lb like bananas, apples, bell peppers, onions, cauliflower/broccoli (when it's on sale). Cabbage 50c/lb even here in CA.
grendelt 8y ago
Dollar General and Family Dollar are not dollar stores. They are variety stores - their stuff is not $1. Dollar Tree is a dollar store.
- rudolph9 8y ago
  They’re honestly kinda expensive. Dollar tree gives you a lot for your money
vraylle 8y ago
I don't know about other areas, but here in the middle of Oklahoma the Dollar Generals have been a real positive. There's a lot of rural areas where a Walmart came in, then folded later. It left a 1-2 hour drive to get buy any kind of "real" food. The DG stores here have been expanding to include an actual grocery section, including fresh produce and (limited) fresh meat. More is available frozen. They have excellent prices on canned goods. Are they as good as a full grocery store? No, but they're a _lot_ better than the gas station/convenience store and its endless supply of deep-fried burritos...and also the only alternative.
- DocFeind 8y ago
  I spent a few years in Texas and often travel by road cross country. I do have to say, finding a dollar store chain of local is a blessing in the big empty in-between.
  - kijin 8y ago
    Dollar stores are like fast food franchises. They're cheap and probably unhealthy, but their inventory is highly predictable.
    - nate_meurer 8y ago
      Good point, reliability is key. Selection is narrow, limited by space, but they have a little of everything. Healthy food is easy to find at these stores. I can put together a perfectly good home cooked meal from Dollar General no problem. Baking goods, dry goods, dairy, produce... again the selection is smaller than a larger grocer, but it's all there.
    - WildGreenLeave 8y ago
      Is a Dollar store in the US comparable to a 7-eleven from Asia? I don't live anywhere where they have either a Dollar store or a 7-eleven, I've only learned about the 7-eleven concept on my last trip to Bangkok.
      - 8y ago
anilshanbhag 8y ago
It's fairly obvious that grocery stores would not want to be in poor neighborhoods. This article paints it all as segregation / race issue which is inaccurate where it is really an issue of purchasing power of the community. While many poor neighborhoods are communities of color - dollar stores have their origin and largest footprint in rural America which is predominantly white.
- drb91 8y ago
  > It's fairly obvious that grocery stores would not want to be in poor neighborhoods. Why not, for us clueless people?
  - freehunter 8y ago
    They answered that in their second sentence: why would they put a store in a community that can't afford to buy their products?
    - deleted 8y ago
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  - HarryHirsch 8y ago
    It's the low purchasing power of the customer base, and a higher proportion of theft, shrinkage and vandalism in poorer neighbourhoods eroding profits further. Profit margin on grocery items isn't high to begin with.
  - hajile 8y ago
    Why are products more expensive in poor neighborhoods? If there were real profits to be reaped, certainly stores would be moving in and enjoying high profit margins rather than leaving. The answer should lie elsewhere and it does. Cost of doing business in those neighborhoods is very high. Vandalism and robbery jack up insurance rates. Companies don't want to deliver there because they don't want the risk, so they charge more. Shoplifting expenses must be spread across all product actually sold. If the place offers loans, they must deal with very high rates of defaults. You can't squeeze blood from a turnip. If someone doesn't pay for that car, you have to repo it, but there's a decent chance it can't be found or that you now own an unsellable car or that it was messed up, but there's no way of actually getting any money out of the responsible parties. Finally, let's say I put a store in a nicer part of town only 15 minutes away. I get less vandalism and basically zero robbery. I get less shoplifting and lower insurance rates. I can keep the same profit margins as the guy in the poor neighborhood and still offer significantly lower prices. Because it's reasonably close to the poor neighborhood, I even get their business without all the extra risk. In the loan market, less risky clients means I can charge less interest and still make the same amount of money and have far less overhead tracking down people and things. The real tragedy here is police. Poor neighborhoods and police don't get along. Police view everyone suspiciously (why wouldn't they when most dead and injured police show up in those same neighborhoods?). Likewise, the people living there don't trust the police because the police treat them as criminals (and like it or not, someone somewhere is always going to make a mistake that starts this downward spiral). This isn't even a race issue. Police and the poor have had this relationship going back as far as you can search no matter the race (or races) involved. This problem could be fixed with education, but the average criminal and average police officer both have below average IQs (with it being ruled in the US that it is perfectly legal to reject police officers who have an IQ that is "too high"). If everyone in a poor neighborhood were properly educated, it would cease to be a poor neighborhood in a very short amount of time, but our education system is only interested in lip service (another problem in itself).
benatkin 8y ago
I think there's enough clearanace stuff there that it might be helping to cut down on waste. It's surprising how much junk there is there, and much of it looks like it wasn't intended to wind up at a dollar store. If not for a dollar store would it wind up at a landfill?
Nasrudith 8y ago
This doesn't really make sense to me on several levels - including the fact it is possible to eat perfectly healthy frozen and canned fruits and vegetables - a bit more additives in the case of canned but frozen if anything is likely better nutritionally due to being frozen at peak freshness. They just might taste a bit worse. I wonder how much of the issue is cultural and institutional knowledge as opposed to economic. Poverty alone doesn't ensure lack of healthy cooking, the skills involve and time aren't free or universally possessed. One can't just handwave away the labor costs of auto repair for everyone because they know how to fix their own car. Cynically the 'backlash' it seems more like a 'keep the poor out' move than anything else.
markbnj 8y ago
We hardly have grocery stores anymore even here in affluent north-central New Jersey. Walmart, Sams, and Target came in, and quite a few of the old line stores closed, helped along by the A&P debacle. Then they closed the Sam's near us, so the nearest market that sells fresh food is around 10 miles away. I'm no expert on the economics of selling food, but the current situation seems like a lot to lay on the dollar stores.
cameldrv 8y ago
The reason that there are places where the only grocery stores are dollar stores is because the people who live in those places are overwhelmingly poor. If you want these people to buy fresh produce and live like middle class people, you need to figure out a way to bring them out of poverty.
- raintrees 8y ago
  I agree. To me, this seems like a software patch I put in place to resolve some symptoms, but I did not go back and figure out my design was the real problem, and now the patch has created other issues I have to address. And pretty soon I have reached the "hard to remember the original chore was draining the swap" situation...
- webmaven 8y ago
  There is actually another option - subsidize growing fresh fruit and vegetables the way we do corn & soy: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/farm-bill-why-dont-taxpayers-subsidize-the-foods-that-are-better-for-us/2014/02/14/d7642a3c-9434-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/farm-bill-why-...
  - icelancer 8y ago
    Fruit and vegetables are ludicrously cheap where I live at Farmer's Markets and such that are open normal hours, year-round. People still love buying boxed and processed food for many, many reasons. If the fruit and veggies got 20% cheaper I am positive it would only help the people already buying the very cheap produce and attract basically no new business.
jstewartmobile 8y ago
This is a sloppy hitpiece by someone who probably doesn't cook, is too uppity to be seen in a DG, or both. DG has saved my bacon on numerous occasions--when I've found myself an ingredient or two short mid-recipe. They have plenty of dairy, eggs, canned vegetables, dry goods, spices, etc--more than adequate for a nutritious and affordable meal.
- ettercap18 8y ago
  I couldn’t agree more. This person has unilaterally made a judgement from afar about what people “should be eating” and wants to ban them from getting what is affordable and attainable.
nate_meurer 8y ago
I normally like CityLab, but the tone of this article really grates on me. Calling dollar stores parasites? The article casually notes that without these stores many poor or minority communities would be true retail deserts, but it offers no workable alternatives. Only invective. Every Dollar General I've ever been in has dairy, eggs, a competent selection of canned and dry goods (pasta, beans, etc), baking goods, and a good (if basic) selection of fresh fruits and vegetables. It's not the dollar store's fault if the surrounding community insists on frozen pizzas and soda.
- deleted 8y ago
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- throw-far-away 8y ago
  IKR. The article comes off as some serious FUD rhetoric judging, perhaps for animosity-seeking clickbait sharing/engagement? They're discount retailers and not hiding this fact. Dollar stores are awesome whether you're poor and it's all your can afford or stingy rich. They're demonstrably better than full-price grocery and hypermarts that are most definitely parasites. Maaybe they are a symptom of income inequality but they're not a cause of it or worsening it.
- da_chicken 8y ago
  Yeah, this does kind of feel like condemning people for having the gall to not shop at Trader Joe's. Realistically, what's the difference between Dollar General and Woolworth's 5¢ & 10¢ stores? What's the difference between Amazon and the Sears Roebuck Mail Order Catalog? The names have changed, but merchandise really hasn't.
  - selimthegrim 8y ago
    There was a Bloomberg article from not too long ago where one real estate analyst described the dollar store companies as betting on the existence of a permanent underclass in America. That might be the subtext this article is driving at.
    - 8y ago
DoreenMichele 8y ago
“What if we went to these neighborhoods and didn't assume that poor people or communities of color do not want to eat healthy?” You can lead a horse to water. You cannot make it drink. I don't know how to fix this. I grew up in a home where food was very important. There was a garden out back and my mother cooked from scratch, etc. In recent years, I've been quite poor, including spending some of that time homeless. My firsthand observation of other poor people is that most of them seem to cut the food budget first. Anecdotally, when I finally got off the street by moving into a cheap rental, many other residents clearly smoked cigarettes and/or marijuana. They tended to stay up all night. I wasn't disturbed by their behavior because I couldn't hear them in my room, but I could hear them anytime I went down the hall to the bathroom. The character of the residents has changed in the time I have been here. I think the presence of my family is a factor in that. People behave better. Most people seem to sleep at night. We smell less cigarette smoke and less marijuana smoke. We smell more food cooking in the building. I think people are smoking less because they are eating better and they probably somehow learned that from us (at least to some degree). Do note that one reason a lot of homeless people smoke is because it is an appetite suppressant. I think people were smoking so much because they weren't eating enough. Now, people are eating better and smoking less and their sleep schedules, behavior, etc all appear to be improved in the aggregate. I know from talking with people and reading articles, etc, that a lot of poor Americans have this idea that eating well is some luxury they cannot afford rather than a basic necessity upon which everything else is based. They try to get cheap, convenient food. They often lack good cooking skills. To my mind, poverty and health problems grow out of this broken mental model. I don't know how we fix it, but I don't think just making sure there are stores selling fresh produce fixes it. When I was homeless, bananas and oranges were frequently given for free to homeless people and I sometimes saw other homeless folks just leave it on a sidewalk somewhere. I really think we need to figure out how to promote healthier eating in the US. I don't think that actually starts with stores per se. I don't know where it starts. But we have this bizarre idea that "health care" happens at a doctor's office instead of seeing diet and lifestyle as the foundations of health that they actually are. Americans tend to have lousy diets and then high medical bills.
- yesenadam 8y ago
  I lived on $2 a day for a couple of years[0], that was left after rent, bills and tobacco. Tobacco is taxed out the wazoo here in Australia, $30+ a bag. I didn't think about stopping.. As long as you can afford a luxury like that, you have your human dignity. Or something like that. Maybe if a bag of oranges was $35 and tobacco $3, fruit would be the essential luxury.. "The only thing that can console one for being poor is extravagance. The only thing that can console one for being rich is economy." - Oscar Wilde, A Few Maxims for the Instruction of the Over-Educated [0] I survived on pasta, home-made cereal (e.g. wheat germ + shredded coconut) and friends taking me out to lunch.
K9DRDOh 8y ago
I must have missed something in the article. the main cons I gleaned are - some items are not as cheap as walmat/costco like Fluor - they dont create as much jobs as traditional grocery stoes ( 9 vs 14) I assume the folks who are struggling are not stupid .. and have looked at every conceivable way of stretching their dollar and judging by the demand it (Dollar store) is providing a valuable service. I take another exception to the approach this article takes .. instead of complaining about dollar stores moving into poor/urban areas why are they giving a pass to the established grocery chains for moving out ? it seems like providing 9 employment positions is better than the 0 being offered by the other stores.
- dclowd9901 8y ago
  “I assume the folks who are struggling are not stupid .. and have looked at every conceivable way of stretching their dollar and judging by the demand it (Dollar store) is providing a valuable service.” I don’t believe this assumption is correct, but I also don’t think the individuals are stupid. It’s still true, however, that one can act against their long term interests when they are too poor to consider the long term over the short term. It’s not stupid; it’s just surviving. They may only be shopping at these stores because they’re the only ones close by and they simply don’t have the luxury of time to suss out alternatives.
  - rtpg 8y ago
    Cash flow problems compound extremely quickly and a lot of “everyday” stuff ends up hitting this quickly. If you’re scraping by in normal circumstances and then have any car trouble, you’ll probably end up buying the 6 pack of eggs instead of 12 pack, simply because you can’t afford 12
- ravenstine 8y ago
  > I assume the folks who are struggling are not stupid .. and have looked at every conceivable way of stretching their dollar One might assume. Possibly the biggest trouble of dollar stores is that a lot of the "deals" are the result of simply selling things in smaller quantities. The next time you visit a Dollar Tree, compare the actual amount that you get for something like flour, oatmeal, detergent... really anything, to the sizes sold at normal stores. Things are often cheaper at Dollar Tree and Family Dollar because the containers are smaller, often 2/3 size, and sometimes the price for goods at dollar is more than elsewhere when adjusted for quantity. There are some deals to be found at Dollar Stores, but it's not as if similar deals can't be found at normal stores. Dollar Stores compete because of perception. I occasionally stroll into a 99 Cents Only store and there was a time when they had big juicy mangoes for 1/3 of the price of the mangos at the local Ralphs or Vons. I bought some on the spot and they were delicious. But that's one of the ways that dollar stores get new believers; they will have a few really good deals on things that aren't really essential, like mangos, to get people to think "wow!" and assume that all the other low prices around them are just as good of a deal.
gnulinux 8y ago
When I was living in Berkeley as a poor student, dollar tree was the only thing I could afford. I must say I never missed them, their products were the lowest of the lowest quality and now every morning and thank God that I make enough money to not worry about groceries.
niftich 8y ago
While these communities are snubbing Dollar General and Family Dollar -- most of rural America welcomes them with open arms, because they stock roughly the same sorts of things as a CVS or Walgreens, but actually build out in a county of a few thousand, and the one next over. A few decades prior, Walmart built up a retail empire through its willingness to build on the outskirts of rural, far-from-everything-else towns that only had gas stations, ailing downtowns, and maybe a small grocery store, but definitely not a supermarket. But even Walmart's best-in-class coverage leaves large tracts out, and these gaps are filled in by the sorts of Dollar General, for when you don't need to go to the Walmart another twenty, or forty minutes away. In more populated, more urban areas, grocery stores have shed locations in neighborhoods that were faltering, further contributing to these locales' decline. These are interrelated. It's easy to claim that variety stores don't do enough about food deserts or that they even contribute to the problem (by not stocking enough fresh, perishable foods), but at least they're trying, while other national chain stores have pursued a pragmatic strategy that has largely removed them from this issue. I once expressed, in a comment on a Strong Towns post [1], that when you consider settlement patterns, urban form, structural poverty, and food insecurity, perhaps you'll find that it's more sensible to subsidize fresh food delivery to people who could least afford it, but such a solution might find itself at odds with the solutions that (new) urbanists would prefer. It might not alter the structural status quo, but it could improve real outcomes in real people's lives. And as for nonperishables and non-food, bulk packaging is a discount accessible to those with access (e.g. warehouse club), transportation, storage, and able to cover a higher upfront cost for a lower per-unit cost. These are all harder on low or unpredictable incomes, which is one of the many ways poverty is quite expensive. But is this the fault of variety stores? Of course not. The real fix is much harder. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17525029#17531109 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17525029#17531109
dev_dull 8y ago
> “It advertises hard-to-beat low prices but it offers little in terms of fresh produce and nutritious items—further trapping residents in a cycle of poverty and ill-health.” The elitism here is sickening. Why shouldn’t the author just come out and say “We know what’s best and have to control the stores around poor people or they might buy junk food.” I hope people who think this way never end up in a position to influence actual laws or policies.
- chrisco255 8y ago
  They do...they're called Democrats. Haha in all seriousness... people who write things like this have no idea what it's like to live poor in general. Or to live in an area where Dollar General is the closest thing for 30 miles. They're not the cause of poverty, they're one of the few stores that will open a business in unserved communities.
- orf 8y ago
  It's not elitism to talk about the very real link between an abundance of unhealthy foods and an unhealthy lifestyle, and the secondary link between areas of increased poverty and a lack of access to healthy foods. America is freaking fat, man. Like really, really fat. Over 35% of people are obese! I'd say the proof of people knowing best what to eat is in the pudding, so let's stop crying about illuminati control of our lunch options and start looking at how we can encourage healthier eating.
- eigenstuff 8y ago
  I live in a rural area and I go to "my" Dollar General so much I know all the people who work there. I'm not going to the Dolla G to do grocery shopping. I'm going there to get stuff like glue sticks, tooth paste, paper, tape, etc I need in a pinch. The only groceries I'm buying at the DG are eggs in an emergency and beer. Every once in a while I'll get a frozen pizza if I'm exhausted and don't feel like cooking because the closest fast food is 15 more minutes away. I'm sure it's the same for most people who shop for groceries weekly. This whole argument doesn't make any sense to me and completely misunderstands the role DGs play in rural communities: saving you an hour round trip to Walmart if you just need a fucking bottle of shampoo.
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newnewpdro 8y ago
This has been an ongoing issue near me @ Joshua Tree, CA [1] [2]. I don't know all the details, just what I've heard some people involved share about it on various local podcasts like Desert Lady Diaries [3]. It sounds like a major objection is the presence of a Dollar General casts an area as impoverished, making it less attractive to potential transplants/investors/tourists. Joshua Tree residents and business owners are trying like hell to distinguish the area from its surroundings as a classy enclave full of artists, and want to do their best to attract the preferred kind of investment and residents, raising the bar - not lowering it. It is quite visible when driving through the surrounding towns. The Dollar General stores, definitely leave a crappy impression. I visited one once just to see what they sold, and the sliced bread loaves on the shelves were moldy, some had insects visible inside. NOPE. [1] https://www.facebook.com/groups/nodollargeneraljoshuatree/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/nodollargeneraljoshuatree/ [2] https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/2014/12/25/dollar-general-unwelcome-joshua-tree/20903761/ https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/2014/12/25/dollar-gener... [3] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmGyfvro5aierNkIuSNVDOg/videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmGyfvro5aierNkIuSNVDOg/vid...
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icelancer 8y ago
These articles definitely make me think the average leftist/Democrat in the United States has no idea what it's like to be poor and reliant on many public services. They'd understand not only why Dollar Stores exist, but why they are primary choices for many impoverished Americans. Source: Been destitute and on public assistance with a child and limited access to a car.
- peteretep 8y ago
  Can you explain why that's true of leftist/Democrats and not true generally of all people?
  - black-tea 8y ago
    He's a "rightist" so naturally it would be the other team that are wrong and have always been wrong etc.
    - icelancer 8y ago
      I'm liberal.
  - icelancer 8y ago
    I mean these articles in general. They aren't written by Republicans; they're written by leftists who feel they should do better and this and that. Most of the time they've never experienced poverty and why poor people make the decisions that they do, like shop at Dollar General, for example.
    - peteretep 8y ago
      I think you’ve taken the right-wing bait a little too to heart here. In the US, most young people, most women, and most ethnic minorities are Democratic-Learning, and I’m speculating those are also the groups most affected by poverty.
      - 8y ago
kbos87 8y ago
This article is maddening on many levels. All they manage to prove is that dollar stores, like many other types of stores, go where they perceive their customers to be. They aren’t a causative factor behind poverty or racial segregation, though they managed to inject that deeply into the storyline. I dislike dollar stores, but not for any of the reasons listed here. The folks pushing back in Vermont aren’t angry about dollar stores for the reasons being dissected in this piece - instead, they seem to dislike massive, soulless retail chains showing up and profiting off their community. How about instead writing about the fact that Whole Foods doesn’t open retail stores in communities of color? That probably doesn’t play as well to their affluent white audience who probably has disdain for dollar stores but shops at Whole Foods on the regular.
ettercap18 8y ago
Any article using the term “white flight” is to be regarded as ideological propaganda. When you are performing analysis at the level of blaming white People for moving, you are not looking at serious material.
tomohawk 8y ago
There were riots in Baltimore a few years ago. The street gangs used it as an excuse to knock over every pharmacy, shoe store, and liquor store. This destroyed years of work trying to get stores to build there. Among many others, Target decided it was no longer worth the risk and moved out. They also ended up cancelling projects in other cities, such as DC. When a city is not competent at providing for basic things like safety and security, it becomes a high risk area, and many businesses will limit their exposure. Small dollar stores are a form of that. Vacant store fronts are another.
- nradov 8y ago
  There is a Target store open inside the Baltimore city limits. I think they may ave only abandoned certain neighborhoods, not the whole city.
geggam 8y ago
Dollar store is a symptom of repressed wages. How about we fix the cause instead of treating the symptoms ?
AlexTWithBeard 8y ago
Among other reasons of sorry state of the communities this article mentions "white flight". Would it be worth starting a campaign to attract white people back to the dilapidated neighborhoods?
- sokoloff 8y ago
  What might be the essential elements of such a campaign? In other words, if you believe in “white flight”, I assume you think they did so for a reason or set of reasons. Have those reasons changed? Have the conditions changed? Other than relatively inexpensive land, what’s the motivation for a group who decided to move out to move back?
- Lkjhmnbv 8y ago
  You mean gentrification?
ja27 8y ago
I hadn't noticed until this year but many dollar stores in the suburbs near me carry less groceries than other stores in the - uhm - rougher parts of town. I found out that their lease often limits them to selling "snacks only" if there is another grocery store in the same plaza, which in one case includes just a Target. Go visit one that's more stand-alone and you'll see more grocery selection.
MentallyRetired 8y ago
Dollar General is not a dollar store. It's a General Store with the name of "Dollar".
Ricardus 8y ago
I've actually wanted to do a documentary on dollar stores, and their proliferation as wages became more stagnant or fell. This idea came to me maybe 8 or 10 years ago. The punch line of the film (although different than this article) would be that they wouldn't be truly helpful until cars and houses became a dollar.
JoeAltmaier 8y ago
I looked hard to find anything resembling a problem with Dollar stores. What exactly can be pinned on them? Providing cost-effective food to neglected neighborhoods? That's painted as some sort of tragedy, but it seems to stem from a privileged point of view. "No fresh olives; no nine-grain bread" is not a tragedy.
sonnyblarney 8y ago
I don't see a lot of evidence to support the thesis. "When a dollar store opened up in Haven, Kansas—subsidized through tax breaks by the local government—sales at the the nearby Foodliner grocery store dropped by 30 percent, " This seems to be a case of a specific kind of competition, and the Dollar Store is good at that. The corporation is 'extra evil' for selling stuff cheaper than the 'normally evil corporation' down the street? These arguments are really hard. As long as produce is available - and by all reasoning it is ... then remaining conclusions are a stretch. Cheaper prices are generally good for consumers, especially the most vulnerable. Also should note that it is 'fresh produce' that tends to be the cheapest food. 'Processing' is where the cost is, ergo, and maybe thankfully, processed foods will be more expensive.
rudolph9 8y ago
I never buy food at these stores but dollar tree is shit for random household stuff! Sponges, dish soap, batteries, baby wipes, light bulbs, you name it just a dollar. Don’t carry everything you need but if they do it’s usually about 1/2 the price at Walmart and 1/4 what it costs at Walgreens.
- rudolph9 8y ago
  Ps dollar tree offers way more value for your “dollar” (pun intended :) than dollar general where things seems to rarely cost a dollar.
suscipit 8y ago
That is beginning of the new era and the sources can be given to us as well because we are all living in this era.

123 points by DocFeind 8y ago

Every year for Christmas my wife continues a small family tradition: every year we go there and buy stocking stuffers for our small family. It's definitely a different experience than going to a grocery store for sure. It's almost like you have a department store or modern pharmacies like CVS with the food capabilities of a gas station or 7-Eleven. I can see why it would appeal to lower-income families. If you assume they are short on time you can probably get all your shopping done in one place. It's definitely smaller than a grocery store and there are fewer options. I think this helps because if you're short on time and trying to get in and out of there you have to spend less time in the store and there's less cognitive overload trying to figure out what to get. Most grocery stores I've been to have unit prices somewhere on the shelf. They're noticeably absent and I have to do the math sometimes. I can understand residents being upset about these stores being subsidized by local government. It makes me wonder what the alternate solutions are. I assume they're getting subsidized since stores are fleeing or they don't want to open up shop. If that's true I don't think those stores are coming back unless they're even more heavily subsidized. Is the solution more Aldi's or Lidl's? I've found that there's a "feel bad" for me going in those stores compared to a normal grocery store.

perardi 8y ago
Aldi's can be a bit drab, but the actual quality is fantastic. (I don't understand how Aldi's has the best fresh pineapples.)
- Symbiote 8y ago
  Good logistics is one of Aldi's strengths in Europe, so I assume they've taken that experience to the USA. That also have less range of products, which might mean they sell more pineapples as there are fewer alternatives.
- rudolph9 8y ago
  Yes! And more and more they have organic or no pesticides food. Aldi is the store I miss most since leaving the Midwest :/ such good fresh food for relatively little money
thelasthuman 8y ago
Aldis is my favorite store. All other grocery stores are obsolete.

pascalxus 8y ago

You really have to differentiate between the food that's offered at a dollar store and everything else. I shop at the dollar store for things like shampoo, deodrant, toothpaste and it's superb deal, not in any way making me poorer. on the contrary it saves me money. for groceries, you should shop somewhere else, unless your looking for dog food. the reason there aren't more grocery stores selling good food is because no one wants that. Consumers are in charge and they've spoken loud and clear: consumers prefer processed foods, sodas, chips, things placed in boxes and plastic. I've even seen parent who boycott schools trying to remove cookies from the lunch menu. At a certain point, people need to start making good decisions about what they buy. and yes, you can buy healthy AND cheap. Rolled oats (aka oatmeal is available for 50c to 1$ per lb, even here in the CA!) . and that's 22 times cheaper than a meal at McDonalds. Compare => 3 meals at mcDonalds => 22$ vs Oatmeal 1 lb = 1600 calories which makes it about 1$ per day. And oatmeal is high in fiber, protein and countless minerals, super low in saturated fat, extremely low in sodium and sugar. Sure, you'd want to add a couple of fruits to your basket: there's bananas for 55c per pound!, etc. I ate oatmeal almost everyday for lunch for a year and it lowered my LDL cholesterol by 60 points! it's a real cholesterol fighter. And, if you do the math on everything, you can find great deals in veggies to: potatoes, onions, Beans, Corn (super highly subsidized), and the occassional costco spinach. Once we start choosing good foods, stores will have no choice but to start selling more of that. Let the backlash begin!

njarboe 8y ago
"consumers prefer processed foods, sodas, chips, things placed in boxes and plastic" These things also last on the shelves for a very long time. Grains can store well, but other products like meat, fruits, vegetables, quality baked goods, etc. don't.
- pascalxus 8y ago
  meat is carcinogenic. as for fruits and vegetables, i'm hoping that someday the local food production revolution will start picking up steam and help make these more cost effective, perhaps with some automation or vertical farming. for now, focus on things you can get for less than 1$/lb like bananas, apples, bell peppers, onions, cauliflower/broccoli (when it's on sale). Cabbage 50c/lb even here in CA.

grendelt 8y ago

Dollar General and Family Dollar are not dollar stores. They are variety stores - their stuff is not $1. Dollar Tree is a dollar store.

rudolph9 8y ago
They’re honestly kinda expensive. Dollar tree gives you a lot for your money

vraylle 8y ago

I don't know about other areas, but here in the middle of Oklahoma the Dollar Generals have been a real positive. There's a lot of rural areas where a Walmart came in, then folded later. It left a 1-2 hour drive to get buy any kind of "real" food. The DG stores here have been expanding to include an actual grocery section, including fresh produce and (limited) fresh meat. More is available frozen. They have excellent prices on canned goods. Are they as good as a full grocery store? No, but they're a _lot_ better than the gas station/convenience store and its endless supply of deep-fried burritos...and also the only alternative.

DocFeind 8y ago
I spent a few years in Texas and often travel by road cross country. I do have to say, finding a dollar store chain of local is a blessing in the big empty in-between.
- kijin 8y ago
  Dollar stores are like fast food franchises. They're cheap and probably unhealthy, but their inventory is highly predictable.
  - nate_meurer 8y ago
    Good point, reliability is key. Selection is narrow, limited by space, but they have a little of everything. Healthy food is easy to find at these stores. I can put together a perfectly good home cooked meal from Dollar General no problem. Baking goods, dry goods, dairy, produce... again the selection is smaller than a larger grocer, but it's all there.
  - WildGreenLeave 8y ago
    Is a Dollar store in the US comparable to a 7-eleven from Asia? I don't live anywhere where they have either a Dollar store or a 7-eleven, I've only learned about the 7-eleven concept on my last trip to Bangkok.
    - 8y ago

anilshanbhag 8y ago

It's fairly obvious that grocery stores would not want to be in poor neighborhoods. This article paints it all as segregation / race issue which is inaccurate where it is really an issue of purchasing power of the community. While many poor neighborhoods are communities of color - dollar stores have their origin and largest footprint in rural America which is predominantly white.

drb91 8y ago
> It's fairly obvious that grocery stores would not want to be in poor neighborhoods. Why not, for us clueless people?
- freehunter 8y ago
  They answered that in their second sentence: why would they put a store in a community that can't afford to buy their products?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- HarryHirsch 8y ago
  It's the low purchasing power of the customer base, and a higher proportion of theft, shrinkage and vandalism in poorer neighbourhoods eroding profits further. Profit margin on grocery items isn't high to begin with.
- hajile 8y ago
  Why are products more expensive in poor neighborhoods? If there were real profits to be reaped, certainly stores would be moving in and enjoying high profit margins rather than leaving. The answer should lie elsewhere and it does. Cost of doing business in those neighborhoods is very high. Vandalism and robbery jack up insurance rates. Companies don't want to deliver there because they don't want the risk, so they charge more. Shoplifting expenses must be spread across all product actually sold. If the place offers loans, they must deal with very high rates of defaults. You can't squeeze blood from a turnip. If someone doesn't pay for that car, you have to repo it, but there's a decent chance it can't be found or that you now own an unsellable car or that it was messed up, but there's no way of actually getting any money out of the responsible parties. Finally, let's say I put a store in a nicer part of town only 15 minutes away. I get less vandalism and basically zero robbery. I get less shoplifting and lower insurance rates. I can keep the same profit margins as the guy in the poor neighborhood and still offer significantly lower prices. Because it's reasonably close to the poor neighborhood, I even get their business without all the extra risk. In the loan market, less risky clients means I can charge less interest and still make the same amount of money and have far less overhead tracking down people and things. The real tragedy here is police. Poor neighborhoods and police don't get along. Police view everyone suspiciously (why wouldn't they when most dead and injured police show up in those same neighborhoods?). Likewise, the people living there don't trust the police because the police treat them as criminals (and like it or not, someone somewhere is always going to make a mistake that starts this downward spiral). This isn't even a race issue. Police and the poor have had this relationship going back as far as you can search no matter the race (or races) involved. This problem could be fixed with education, but the average criminal and average police officer both have below average IQs (with it being ruled in the US that it is perfectly legal to reject police officers who have an IQ that is "too high"). If everyone in a poor neighborhood were properly educated, it would cease to be a poor neighborhood in a very short amount of time, but our education system is only interested in lip service (another problem in itself).

benatkin 8y ago

I think there's enough clearanace stuff there that it might be helping to cut down on waste. It's surprising how much junk there is there, and much of it looks like it wasn't intended to wind up at a dollar store. If not for a dollar store would it wind up at a landfill?

Nasrudith 8y ago

This doesn't really make sense to me on several levels - including the fact it is possible to eat perfectly healthy frozen and canned fruits and vegetables - a bit more additives in the case of canned but frozen if anything is likely better nutritionally due to being frozen at peak freshness. They just might taste a bit worse. I wonder how much of the issue is cultural and institutional knowledge as opposed to economic. Poverty alone doesn't ensure lack of healthy cooking, the skills involve and time aren't free or universally possessed. One can't just handwave away the labor costs of auto repair for everyone because they know how to fix their own car. Cynically the 'backlash' it seems more like a 'keep the poor out' move than anything else.

markbnj 8y ago

We hardly have grocery stores anymore even here in affluent north-central New Jersey. Walmart, Sams, and Target came in, and quite a few of the old line stores closed, helped along by the A&P debacle. Then they closed the Sam's near us, so the nearest market that sells fresh food is around 10 miles away. I'm no expert on the economics of selling food, but the current situation seems like a lot to lay on the dollar stores.

cameldrv 8y ago

The reason that there are places where the only grocery stores are dollar stores is because the people who live in those places are overwhelmingly poor. If you want these people to buy fresh produce and live like middle class people, you need to figure out a way to bring them out of poverty.

raintrees 8y ago
I agree. To me, this seems like a software patch I put in place to resolve some symptoms, but I did not go back and figure out my design was the real problem, and now the patch has created other issues I have to address. And pretty soon I have reached the "hard to remember the original chore was draining the swap" situation...
webmaven 8y ago
There is actually another option - subsidize growing fresh fruit and vegetables the way we do corn & soy: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/farm-bill-why-dont-taxpayers-subsidize-the-foods-that-are-better-for-us/2014/02/14/d7642a3c-9434-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/farm-bill-why-...
- icelancer 8y ago
  Fruit and vegetables are ludicrously cheap where I live at Farmer's Markets and such that are open normal hours, year-round. People still love buying boxed and processed food for many, many reasons. If the fruit and veggies got 20% cheaper I am positive it would only help the people already buying the very cheap produce and attract basically no new business.

jstewartmobile 8y ago

This is a sloppy hitpiece by someone who probably doesn't cook, is too uppity to be seen in a DG, or both. DG has saved my bacon on numerous occasions--when I've found myself an ingredient or two short mid-recipe. They have plenty of dairy, eggs, canned vegetables, dry goods, spices, etc--more than adequate for a nutritious and affordable meal.

ettercap18 8y ago
I couldn’t agree more. This person has unilaterally made a judgement from afar about what people “should be eating” and wants to ban them from getting what is affordable and attainable.

nate_meurer 8y ago

I normally like CityLab, but the tone of this article really grates on me. Calling dollar stores parasites? The article casually notes that without these stores many poor or minority communities would be true retail deserts, but it offers no workable alternatives. Only invective. Every Dollar General I've ever been in has dairy, eggs, a competent selection of canned and dry goods (pasta, beans, etc), baking goods, and a good (if basic) selection of fresh fruits and vegetables. It's not the dollar store's fault if the surrounding community insists on frozen pizzas and soda.

deleted 8y ago
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throw-far-away 8y ago
IKR. The article comes off as some serious FUD rhetoric judging, perhaps for animosity-seeking clickbait sharing/engagement? They're discount retailers and not hiding this fact. Dollar stores are awesome whether you're poor and it's all your can afford or stingy rich. They're demonstrably better than full-price grocery and hypermarts that are most definitely parasites. Maaybe they are a symptom of income inequality but they're not a cause of it or worsening it.
da_chicken 8y ago
Yeah, this does kind of feel like condemning people for having the gall to not shop at Trader Joe's. Realistically, what's the difference between Dollar General and Woolworth's 5¢ & 10¢ stores? What's the difference between Amazon and the Sears Roebuck Mail Order Catalog? The names have changed, but merchandise really hasn't.
- selimthegrim 8y ago
  There was a Bloomberg article from not too long ago where one real estate analyst described the dollar store companies as betting on the existence of a permanent underclass in America. That might be the subtext this article is driving at.
  - 8y ago

DoreenMichele 8y ago

“What if we went to these neighborhoods and didn't assume that poor people or communities of color do not want to eat healthy?” You can lead a horse to water. You cannot make it drink. I don't know how to fix this. I grew up in a home where food was very important. There was a garden out back and my mother cooked from scratch, etc. In recent years, I've been quite poor, including spending some of that time homeless. My firsthand observation of other poor people is that most of them seem to cut the food budget first. Anecdotally, when I finally got off the street by moving into a cheap rental, many other residents clearly smoked cigarettes and/or marijuana. They tended to stay up all night. I wasn't disturbed by their behavior because I couldn't hear them in my room, but I could hear them anytime I went down the hall to the bathroom. The character of the residents has changed in the time I have been here. I think the presence of my family is a factor in that. People behave better. Most people seem to sleep at night. We smell less cigarette smoke and less marijuana smoke. We smell more food cooking in the building. I think people are smoking less because they are eating better and they probably somehow learned that from us (at least to some degree). Do note that one reason a lot of homeless people smoke is because it is an appetite suppressant. I think people were smoking so much because they weren't eating enough. Now, people are eating better and smoking less and their sleep schedules, behavior, etc all appear to be improved in the aggregate. I know from talking with people and reading articles, etc, that a lot of poor Americans have this idea that eating well is some luxury they cannot afford rather than a basic necessity upon which everything else is based. They try to get cheap, convenient food. They often lack good cooking skills. To my mind, poverty and health problems grow out of this broken mental model. I don't know how we fix it, but I don't think just making sure there are stores selling fresh produce fixes it. When I was homeless, bananas and oranges were frequently given for free to homeless people and I sometimes saw other homeless folks just leave it on a sidewalk somewhere. I really think we need to figure out how to promote healthier eating in the US. I don't think that actually starts with stores per se. I don't know where it starts. But we have this bizarre idea that "health care" happens at a doctor's office instead of seeing diet and lifestyle as the foundations of health that they actually are. Americans tend to have lousy diets and then high medical bills.

yesenadam 8y ago
I lived on $2 a day for a couple of years[0], that was left after rent, bills and tobacco. Tobacco is taxed out the wazoo here in Australia, $30+ a bag. I didn't think about stopping.. As long as you can afford a luxury like that, you have your human dignity. Or something like that. Maybe if a bag of oranges was $35 and tobacco $3, fruit would be the essential luxury.. "The only thing that can console one for being poor is extravagance. The only thing that can console one for being rich is economy." - Oscar Wilde, A Few Maxims for the Instruction of the Over-Educated [0] I survived on pasta, home-made cereal (e.g. wheat germ + shredded coconut) and friends taking me out to lunch.

K9DRDOh 8y ago

I must have missed something in the article. the main cons I gleaned are - some items are not as cheap as walmat/costco like Fluor - they dont create as much jobs as traditional grocery stoes ( 9 vs 14) I assume the folks who are struggling are not stupid .. and have looked at every conceivable way of stretching their dollar and judging by the demand it (Dollar store) is providing a valuable service. I take another exception to the approach this article takes .. instead of complaining about dollar stores moving into poor/urban areas why are they giving a pass to the established grocery chains for moving out ? it seems like providing 9 employment positions is better than the 0 being offered by the other stores.

dclowd9901 8y ago
“I assume the folks who are struggling are not stupid .. and have looked at every conceivable way of stretching their dollar and judging by the demand it (Dollar store) is providing a valuable service.” I don’t believe this assumption is correct, but I also don’t think the individuals are stupid. It’s still true, however, that one can act against their long term interests when they are too poor to consider the long term over the short term. It’s not stupid; it’s just surviving. They may only be shopping at these stores because they’re the only ones close by and they simply don’t have the luxury of time to suss out alternatives.
- rtpg 8y ago
  Cash flow problems compound extremely quickly and a lot of “everyday” stuff ends up hitting this quickly. If you’re scraping by in normal circumstances and then have any car trouble, you’ll probably end up buying the 6 pack of eggs instead of 12 pack, simply because you can’t afford 12
ravenstine 8y ago
> I assume the folks who are struggling are not stupid .. and have looked at every conceivable way of stretching their dollar One might assume. Possibly the biggest trouble of dollar stores is that a lot of the "deals" are the result of simply selling things in smaller quantities. The next time you visit a Dollar Tree, compare the actual amount that you get for something like flour, oatmeal, detergent... really anything, to the sizes sold at normal stores. Things are often cheaper at Dollar Tree and Family Dollar because the containers are smaller, often 2/3 size, and sometimes the price for goods at dollar is more than elsewhere when adjusted for quantity. There are some deals to be found at Dollar Stores, but it's not as if similar deals can't be found at normal stores. Dollar Stores compete because of perception. I occasionally stroll into a 99 Cents Only store and there was a time when they had big juicy mangoes for 1/3 of the price of the mangos at the local Ralphs or Vons. I bought some on the spot and they were delicious. But that's one of the ways that dollar stores get new believers; they will have a few really good deals on things that aren't really essential, like mangos, to get people to think "wow!" and assume that all the other low prices around them are just as good of a deal.

gnulinux 8y ago

When I was living in Berkeley as a poor student, dollar tree was the only thing I could afford. I must say I never missed them, their products were the lowest of the lowest quality and now every morning and thank God that I make enough money to not worry about groceries.

niftich 8y ago

While these communities are snubbing Dollar General and Family Dollar -- most of rural America welcomes them with open arms, because they stock roughly the same sorts of things as a CVS or Walgreens, but actually build out in a county of a few thousand, and the one next over. A few decades prior, Walmart built up a retail empire through its willingness to build on the outskirts of rural, far-from-everything-else towns that only had gas stations, ailing downtowns, and maybe a small grocery store, but definitely not a supermarket. But even Walmart's best-in-class coverage leaves large tracts out, and these gaps are filled in by the sorts of Dollar General, for when you don't need to go to the Walmart another twenty, or forty minutes away. In more populated, more urban areas, grocery stores have shed locations in neighborhoods that were faltering, further contributing to these locales' decline. These are interrelated. It's easy to claim that variety stores don't do enough about food deserts or that they even contribute to the problem (by not stocking enough fresh, perishable foods), but at least they're trying, while other national chain stores have pursued a pragmatic strategy that has largely removed them from this issue. I once expressed, in a comment on a Strong Towns post [1], that when you consider settlement patterns, urban form, structural poverty, and food insecurity, perhaps you'll find that it's more sensible to subsidize fresh food delivery to people who could least afford it, but such a solution might find itself at odds with the solutions that (new) urbanists would prefer. It might not alter the structural status quo, but it could improve real outcomes in real people's lives. And as for nonperishables and non-food, bulk packaging is a discount accessible to those with access (e.g. warehouse club), transportation, storage, and able to cover a higher upfront cost for a lower per-unit cost. These are all harder on low or unpredictable incomes, which is one of the many ways poverty is quite expensive. But is this the fault of variety stores? Of course not. The real fix is much harder. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17525029#17531109 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17525029#17531109

dev_dull 8y ago

> “It advertises hard-to-beat low prices but it offers little in terms of fresh produce and nutritious items—further trapping residents in a cycle of poverty and ill-health.” The elitism here is sickening. Why shouldn’t the author just come out and say “We know what’s best and have to control the stores around poor people or they might buy junk food.” I hope people who think this way never end up in a position to influence actual laws or policies.

chrisco255 8y ago
They do...they're called Democrats. Haha in all seriousness... people who write things like this have no idea what it's like to live poor in general. Or to live in an area where Dollar General is the closest thing for 30 miles. They're not the cause of poverty, they're one of the few stores that will open a business in unserved communities.
orf 8y ago
It's not elitism to talk about the very real link between an abundance of unhealthy foods and an unhealthy lifestyle, and the secondary link between areas of increased poverty and a lack of access to healthy foods. America is freaking fat, man. Like really, really fat. Over 35% of people are obese! I'd say the proof of people knowing best what to eat is in the pudding, so let's stop crying about illuminati control of our lunch options and start looking at how we can encourage healthier eating.
eigenstuff 8y ago
I live in a rural area and I go to "my" Dollar General so much I know all the people who work there. I'm not going to the Dolla G to do grocery shopping. I'm going there to get stuff like glue sticks, tooth paste, paper, tape, etc I need in a pinch. The only groceries I'm buying at the DG are eggs in an emergency and beer. Every once in a while I'll get a frozen pizza if I'm exhausted and don't feel like cooking because the closest fast food is 15 more minutes away. I'm sure it's the same for most people who shop for groceries weekly. This whole argument doesn't make any sense to me and completely misunderstands the role DGs play in rural communities: saving you an hour round trip to Walmart if you just need a fucking bottle of shampoo.

deleted 8y ago

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newnewpdro 8y ago

This has been an ongoing issue near me @ Joshua Tree, CA [1] [2]. I don't know all the details, just what I've heard some people involved share about it on various local podcasts like Desert Lady Diaries [3]. It sounds like a major objection is the presence of a Dollar General casts an area as impoverished, making it less attractive to potential transplants/investors/tourists. Joshua Tree residents and business owners are trying like hell to distinguish the area from its surroundings as a classy enclave full of artists, and want to do their best to attract the preferred kind of investment and residents, raising the bar - not lowering it. It is quite visible when driving through the surrounding towns. The Dollar General stores, definitely leave a crappy impression. I visited one once just to see what they sold, and the sliced bread loaves on the shelves were moldy, some had insects visible inside. NOPE. [1] https://www.facebook.com/groups/nodollargeneraljoshuatree/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/nodollargeneraljoshuatree/ [2] https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/2014/12/25/dollar-general-unwelcome-joshua-tree/20903761/ https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/2014/12/25/dollar-gener... [3] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmGyfvro5aierNkIuSNVDOg/videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmGyfvro5aierNkIuSNVDOg/vid...

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icelancer 8y ago

These articles definitely make me think the average leftist/Democrat in the United States has no idea what it's like to be poor and reliant on many public services. They'd understand not only why Dollar Stores exist, but why they are primary choices for many impoverished Americans. Source: Been destitute and on public assistance with a child and limited access to a car.

peteretep 8y ago
Can you explain why that's true of leftist/Democrats and not true generally of all people?
- black-tea 8y ago
  He's a "rightist" so naturally it would be the other team that are wrong and have always been wrong etc.
  - icelancer 8y ago
    I'm liberal.
- icelancer 8y ago
  I mean these articles in general. They aren't written by Republicans; they're written by leftists who feel they should do better and this and that. Most of the time they've never experienced poverty and why poor people make the decisions that they do, like shop at Dollar General, for example.
  - peteretep 8y ago
    I think you’ve taken the right-wing bait a little too to heart here. In the US, most young people, most women, and most ethnic minorities are Democratic-Learning, and I’m speculating those are also the groups most affected by poverty.
    - 8y ago

kbos87 8y ago

This article is maddening on many levels. All they manage to prove is that dollar stores, like many other types of stores, go where they perceive their customers to be. They aren’t a causative factor behind poverty or racial segregation, though they managed to inject that deeply into the storyline. I dislike dollar stores, but not for any of the reasons listed here. The folks pushing back in Vermont aren’t angry about dollar stores for the reasons being dissected in this piece - instead, they seem to dislike massive, soulless retail chains showing up and profiting off their community. How about instead writing about the fact that Whole Foods doesn’t open retail stores in communities of color? That probably doesn’t play as well to their affluent white audience who probably has disdain for dollar stores but shops at Whole Foods on the regular.

ettercap18 8y ago

Any article using the term “white flight” is to be regarded as ideological propaganda. When you are performing analysis at the level of blaming white People for moving, you are not looking at serious material.

tomohawk 8y ago

There were riots in Baltimore a few years ago. The street gangs used it as an excuse to knock over every pharmacy, shoe store, and liquor store. This destroyed years of work trying to get stores to build there. Among many others, Target decided it was no longer worth the risk and moved out. They also ended up cancelling projects in other cities, such as DC. When a city is not competent at providing for basic things like safety and security, it becomes a high risk area, and many businesses will limit their exposure. Small dollar stores are a form of that. Vacant store fronts are another.

nradov 8y ago
There is a Target store open inside the Baltimore city limits. I think they may ave only abandoned certain neighborhoods, not the whole city.

geggam 8y ago

Dollar store is a symptom of repressed wages. How about we fix the cause instead of treating the symptoms ?

AlexTWithBeard 8y ago

Among other reasons of sorry state of the communities this article mentions "white flight". Would it be worth starting a campaign to attract white people back to the dilapidated neighborhoods?

sokoloff 8y ago
What might be the essential elements of such a campaign? In other words, if you believe in “white flight”, I assume you think they did so for a reason or set of reasons. Have those reasons changed? Have the conditions changed? Other than relatively inexpensive land, what’s the motivation for a group who decided to move out to move back?
Lkjhmnbv 8y ago
You mean gentrification?

ja27 8y ago

I hadn't noticed until this year but many dollar stores in the suburbs near me carry less groceries than other stores in the - uhm - rougher parts of town. I found out that their lease often limits them to selling "snacks only" if there is another grocery store in the same plaza, which in one case includes just a Target. Go visit one that's more stand-alone and you'll see more grocery selection.

MentallyRetired 8y ago

Dollar General is not a dollar store. It's a General Store with the name of "Dollar".

Ricardus 8y ago

I've actually wanted to do a documentary on dollar stores, and their proliferation as wages became more stagnant or fell. This idea came to me maybe 8 or 10 years ago. The punch line of the film (although different than this article) would be that they wouldn't be truly helpful until cars and houses became a dollar.

JoeAltmaier 8y ago

I looked hard to find anything resembling a problem with Dollar stores. What exactly can be pinned on them? Providing cost-effective food to neglected neighborhoods? That's painted as some sort of tragedy, but it seems to stem from a privileged point of view. "No fresh olives; no nine-grain bread" is not a tragedy.

sonnyblarney 8y ago

I don't see a lot of evidence to support the thesis. "When a dollar store opened up in Haven, Kansas—subsidized through tax breaks by the local government—sales at the the nearby Foodliner grocery store dropped by 30 percent, " This seems to be a case of a specific kind of competition, and the Dollar Store is good at that. The corporation is 'extra evil' for selling stuff cheaper than the 'normally evil corporation' down the street? These arguments are really hard. As long as produce is available - and by all reasoning it is ... then remaining conclusions are a stretch. Cheaper prices are generally good for consumers, especially the most vulnerable. Also should note that it is 'fresh produce' that tends to be the cheapest food. 'Processing' is where the cost is, ergo, and maybe thankfully, processed foods will be more expensive.

rudolph9 8y ago

I never buy food at these stores but dollar tree is shit for random household stuff! Sponges, dish soap, batteries, baby wipes, light bulbs, you name it just a dollar. Don’t carry everything you need but if they do it’s usually about 1/2 the price at Walmart and 1/4 what it costs at Walgreens.

rudolph9 8y ago
Ps dollar tree offers way more value for your “dollar” (pun intended :) than dollar general where things seems to rarely cost a dollar.

suscipit 8y ago

That is beginning of the new era and the sources can be given to us as well because we are all living in this era.