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Policies like this make it glaringly obvious how little our government representatives around the world understand technology. It almost seems malicious, or at
by sjroot 8y ago
Policies like this make it glaringly obvious how little our government representatives around the world understand technology.
It almost seems malicious, or at the very least anticompetitive. Who has access to such filtering systems already, or the resources to create one?
GRPR regulations, while I absolutely realize their necessity, have made it difficult for me to expand my side business into the EU. This would just be another road block for innovation.
- baroffoos 8y agoI think they do understand exactly what is going on but they know that upload filters are faulty almost always in favor of people with money. Upload filters like ones on youtube are super biased towards taking down anything that looks like copyrighted content but they also take out a load of legitimate content. Its now up to the content owner to prove that their content was fair use or that its not even the same thing as the copyrighted content. In the end the big companies win and the individuals lose.
- Zak 8y ago> Upload filters like ones on youtube are super biased towards taking down anything that looks like copyrighted content Youtube's filter removed the audio track from a video of mine that was essentially silent to start with. There was certainly no music, TV, movie, etc... in the background.
- baroffoos 8y agoAnd how many $ did that cause Disney to lose? The system fails almost entirely siding with the orgs with money and power.
- giancarlostoro 8y agoThat is outright ridiculous. There should be a level of human intervention to determine okay this cant be a damn copyright issue this AI is coocoo.
- StudentStuff 8y agoLetting black box "AI" that is often incorrect run wild is way less expensive than having a human intervene to review flagged videos. Hence the rise of machine learning algorithms that can do all kinds of neat things, but fail hard on the plethora of edge cases that exist.
- TeMPOraL 8y agoHence the need for penalties on false positives. Alas, here this won't happen on its own, because streaming platforms need people with money (and their content) more than the reverse.
- growt 8y agoYou were obviously playing four minutes thirty-three seconds of silence by John Cage[1] on repeat in the background! Crystal clear copyright violation! [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4%E2%80%B233%E2%80%B3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4%E2%80%B233%E2%80%B3
- Zak 8y agoThat actually came up in a now-deleted comment. Incidentally, the audio is back now, though I made no request for review. I wonder if they periodically rescan content when they make changes to the algorithm. Here's the video for the curious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCEjJhm8qYM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCEjJhm8qYM There is someone with a financial interest in not having people watch it, but removing the audio won't help them.
- spaceribs 8y agoCentralization loses. Publicly available content loses. A global community loses. Individuals are too many, faster and more clever than any one company can ever imagine to outmaneuver, it just means our shared internet culture becomes more localized and hidden.
- baroffoos 8y agoI'm fairly sure this will mean more centralization as youtube will be the only one able to comply with the laws and everyone else will be locked out.
- spaceribs 8y agoI'm fairly certain YouTube wasn't around when I traded external HDs full of movies/tv shows with my high school friends.
- AnthonyMouse 8y agoAnd that's the problem. Piracy decentralizes easily -- it has been that way since before the internet was even common. What these rules do is destroy user generated content. Because your external HD can hold every Hollywood blockbuster in the last five years but it's nowhere near big enough for all the user generated content on YouTube.
- pgeorgi 8y ago> youtube will be the only one able to comply with the laws A properly decentralized system can comply with the laws as well: you know what you put up, so there is a filter - it's just in meat space.
- AsyncAwait 8y agoWorth pointing out that anyone could run their own instance of PeerTube[1], for their own content, if they wished. I think the bigger issue is that many YT creators rely on its ads for revenue. 1 - https://joinpeertube.org/en https://joinpeertube.org/en
- richrichardsson 8y ago> super biased towards taking down anything that looks like copyrighted content YouTube's uploads filters don't work very well with Peppa Pig episodes that have been chopped up into 45 second pieces and reordered randomly.
- fsloth 8y ago"In the end the big companies win and the individuals lose." That's how other industries are run nowadays. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but that rather this does not come from cluelesness about tech, but more about bringing tech into the legislatory mainstream.
- raxxorrax 8y agoThis is partly because justice systems in the western countries require you to have a lot of money if you want to see your rights preserved. That aside, the bill is designed to target "the big ones" because publishers want to gain access to profits from advertising. You just need to look at the people who initiated this tragedy. I hate it that people don't talk about what problems the law intends to solve. You will be able to quickly reduce the answer to special interests. At that point, a legislative process should stop immediately. Will be interesting if the european institutions are able to do so.
- quanticle 8y agoThe greatest irony is EU regulators whining about the dominance of Google, Facebook, etc, while passing regulations like this which make it impossible for anyone to compete with their ilk. Google and Facebook will have no trouble building the automated filters that are mandated by this legislation. The impact of this will be felt entirely by smaller companies with either will shut down, or, more likely, will never be founded.
- giancarlostoro 8y agoAnd companies will neglect the EU market altogether. The great legal firewall of the EU. We can pass laws to make things better without any technical competence! Lets go after cryptography next!
- quanticle 8y agoAustralia is already on the case, re: cryptography: https://protonmail.com/blog/australia-anti-encryption-law/ https://protonmail.com/blog/australia-anti-encryption-law/
- dithering 8y ago> And companies will neglect the EU market altogether As an EU citizen (until April, anyway), can I live in that future please?
- krageon 8y agoIf you actually looked at how these laws are worded (ie given specific provisions for the capability of a company), you would see that this kind of right-wing capitalist propaganda-like rhetoric holds no water.
- kodablah 8y agoDespite best efforts, there's just no way around the general notion that affecting the tide affects all boats. You take the bad with the good of an internet with fewer restrictions, or you add both bad and good for everyone with restrictions. Even attempts to target legislation tend to have an unquantifiable ripple effect beyond the foresight of naive legislators.
- anonytrary 8y agoIsn't the unspoken rule to just ignore GDPR until you're big enough and EU starts bitching at you, at which point you just pay them off and spend some resources on compliance?
- qwerty456127 8y agoHow is GDPR a problem at all? Is it so hard to avoid personalized tracking of unregistered users, ask users for their consent at sign-up time and implement a button for them to export and delete their data?
- jcranmer 8y agoThe problem with GDPR is that the actual scope of it applies to is rather unclear, and the regulatory guidance hasn't been reassuring as to what the actual extent will be in practice. For example, do email addresses on the comments on a blog site fall under that protection? If so, there are some agencies in charge of enforcing GDPR that are violating GDPR on their sites...
- TheCoelacanth 8y ago> For example, do email addresses on the comments on a blog site fall under that protection? That is not unclear at all. They absolutely do. That doesn't mean you can't have them, but it means you need consent, you need to be clear about how you will use them and you need to let people withdraw consent.
- johnchristopher 8y agoWhat if: > Genetics regulations, while I absolutely realize their necessity, have made it difficult for me to expand my side business into the EU. This would just be another road block for innovation. When I look at GDPR I see a safeguard against mass surveillance and dystopian add ruled societies.
- ThomPete 8y agoGDRP is a reflection of a mass surveiled and dystopian ad ruled society. GDRP makes it HARDER for consumers once the’ve consented. All that will happen is that this will be gamed instead.
- pluma 8y agoNo it doesn't. Consumers can withdraw consent at any time, they have to give informed consent (i.e. the consent is void and null if the consumer can't reasonably be expected to understand what they consented to) and companies have to keep track of what data they acquired and what they have done with it. The "consent" popups you see on loads of websites these days actually run counter to the GDPR because they usually opt-in by default or tie consent to uses for which that consent is not necessary. They also rarely provide detailed information about what data is used and what they do with it.
- rue 8y agoThat is not even remotely true. GDPR expressly affords revoking consent—and deleting any information gathered—at any time.
- Silhouette 8y agoNo, it doesn't. In fact, the rules about what must or must not be deleted are more complicated than that and in some respects ambiguous, and as yet there is little useful guidance from regulators to clarify those ambiguities. This is a significant problem with the GDPR.
- 8y ago
- merijnv 8y agoWhat part of the GDPR makes things difficult for your side business? Every discussion I run into has people claiming this sorta thing, but my reading of the text make it fairly clear that for 90% of non-despicable use cases there's really not that much of a problem...
- vgoh1 8y agoMy "despicable" side business is (was) making Android apps with Admob ads. I needed to update my app to allow EU users to opt out of targeted ads. Why Admob doesn't just add this functionality to their widget they place in my app is beyond me. In order to update my apps, I need to target a newer version of Android. It's not that it's very outdated, they were targeting Android 5.0, and get updated every 6 months or so. But a change in the Android API has made this very difficult for me. Being a side business, I had to make the choice - let go of the $600/mo I was making from ad revenue, or continue with the constant barrage of code updates required from Google for my apps to work. I decided to let it go. My app would still be on Google Play, even though I couldn't update it, if it weren't for GDPR. They pulled it due to non-GDPR compliance. So, yeah, GDPR has costed me $600/mo. I'm sure there are a lot of others with complex stories about how these regulations affect them. BTW I support GDPR and privacy as a whole, and wish my native USA would take privacy more seriously. It is the details of the implementation that are lacking. I also suspect that Google uses policies (such as putting the burden of Admob GDPR compliance on the publishers) to try to push out small developers.
- hannasanarion 8y agoSo, this has nothing to do with your business, and everything to do with admob illegally spying on your users.
- merijnv 8y agoI mean, I empathise with your problems, but this very much doesn't sound like "GDPR makes by side business impossible". It sounds like "exploitative user-data abusing ad vendor abuse s their lock-in to exploit people's personal data" kind of problem, so I'd say things are working. FYI, "allowing EU users to opt-out" is still wrong, they would have to explicitly opt-in to targeted ads. At least, in so far as ads are targeted based on personal data.
- foolrush 8y agoShut up with your stupid “innovation”. Your innovation is just another dumb idea. “Laws against stripmining are just another road block for innovation.” Just shut up already. Shut. Up.
- sctb 8y agoPosting like this on Hacker News will get your account banned. Please don't. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html