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Verizon says to shed 10,400 jobs by mid next year
- throwaway5752 8y agoThat is 10,400 out of 152,300 per the article, or just a bit less than 7% of their workforce.
- agumonkey 8y agoI never realized how large they were
- TAForObvReasons 8y agoThey aren't laying off people, it was a voluntary separation: > Verizon Communications Inc said on Monday that about 10,400 employees will be leaving the U.S. wireless carrier by mid next year as part of the company’s voluntary separation program. They offered a package earlier in the year https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/25/verizon-offers-separation-plans-to-thousands-of-management-employees.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/25/verizon-offers-separation-pl...
- makecheck 8y agoOf course they are. Many, many companies offer a “voluntary first” incentive to avoid the bad press and services they might otherwise have to provide to laid-off people. Jobs went away. Sugar-coating the exact method of ending the jobs doesn’t change that.
- JackFr 8y ago> Of course they are. Why? Because you say so? We should ignore the literal words of the press release in favor of something you think may happen? In fact, the structure of the the offer is one that offer's a far greater incentive to those with a lot of seniority vs those who are newer. If we assume that many of these might be technician jobs under a union contract where more years of service equals higher pay, they could have more senior workers take the package, immediately hire new employees and save a decent amount of money. Granted, I've only seen that strategy in practice with municipal workers, but it makes no more assumptions than you do.
- Spivak 8y agoI don't really see it as sugarcoating, this is way better than the alternative. They're giving their employees a generous heads up, offering an incentive to anyone who finds other employment, and people who really don't want to leave likely won't have to.
- erichurkman 8y agoAnd they get to structure who leaves and when. You can wind down projects responsibly, shift resources over time, train people on new tasks. Far less disruptive than a sudden layoff.
- root_axis 8y agoGreat point. This kind of arrangement assures that the exiting employee will be happy to cooperate with training their replacement in good faith.
- root_axis 8y agoYour cynicism seems misplaced; up to a year's salary as severance sounds like a pretty sweet sugar-coating to me. They didn't "avoid bad press", they simply didn't do anything to merit bad press. What's wrong with someone voluntarily choosing to take money in exchange for a resignation? It's not as if there is something inherently wrong with "jobs going away" when your definition includes people voluntarily quitting their job.
- RHSeeger 8y agoTo be fair, it's not entirely resignation. It's "take this X and resign, or be put on the list to be fired and get something less than X". It's still better than just being layed off, but it not as nice as a voluntary resignation.
- root_axis 8y agoThe company solicited for volunteers, they didn't target individuals and give them an ultimatum.
- firebird84 8y agoIt sounds like they were offered that in lieu of a less favorable outcome...Also 3 weeks per year of service is in my experience less than standard.
- mathattack 8y agoI’ve seen 2 weeks at a lot of places.
- C1sc0cat 8y agoMine was 14 for BT in the Uk (tax free)
- meritt 8y agoWhen Sprint did numerous layoff rounds in 2004-2010, they paid out 2-weeks per year of service and capped it at 52 weeks.
- gaius 8y agoIBM offers statutory minimum i.e. “we would give you nothing if it was legal”. A year+ is a fair deal.
- jf- 8y agoIs this not just the same thing but with golden handshakes? Still looks like cost cutting.
- reaperducer 8y agoThey aren't laying off people, it was a voluntary separation It's just another layer of corporate double-speak. The same way "fired" became "laid off." Until the early 90's, "laid off" applied to factory and seasonal workers, who were expected to be recalled when production ramped up again.
- Spivak 8y agoI don't really think it's doublespeak. Laid off means an employer doesn't want/need your position anymore. Fired means an employer doesn't want you anymore.
- C1sc0cat 8y agoNo previous commentator is correct "redundancy" is different to "laid off" Fired means they are dismissing you for cause.
- cgriswald 8y agoI don't think it's quite so black-and-white. Often there are multiple such positions and they are being reduced. So your position still exists and they don't want you (or rather, they would prefer to have X number of your coworkers rather than you). I don't think it's synonymous with being fired, but you can smell it from there.
- mohaine 8y agoEvery time I'm seen a layoff in tech it is always the lower performing employees first out the door. Round 1 is normally just letting people go who should have been fired years before. Of course this is often when the good employees start doing interviews as well.
- jandrese 8y agoThe first round of cuts (of deadweight that avoided egregious screwups) work so well that managers get addicted and pretty soon they're cutting the actual workers and they kill the company.
- mathattack 8y agoJust semantics. But telecom companies have been in the business of shrinking since ATT split up in 1984.
- sdinsn 8y ago"voluntary separation" might as well be lay-offs, because if they didn't get enough volunteers they would have laid people off without giving them a package.
- Spivak 8y agoOr they increase the incentive until they get enough volunteers. Actual lay-offs can be a last resort.
- coss 8y agoEquivalent to airlines looking for people to give up a seat on the plane.
- empath75 8y agoI volunteered for a lay-off when they merged Aol and yahoo because I had recruiters breathing down my neck offering me big raises to leave anyway. I got enough in the severance and signing bonuses to pay off a new car and pay for most of my wife’s masters degree.
- ryandrake 8y agoOne of my major career regrets was leaving a job about 6 months before they offered voluntary layoffs with generous severance. I was already grumpy with the job. If only I held my nose and stuck around those six months, I would have been first in line for the package!
- JustSomeNobody 8y agoIf nobody volunteered, Verizon would start volunteering people. The end result would be similar, so, yeah, it's a layoff.
- kevmo 8y agoSupply-side economics in action. This is what you get when the theoretical underpinning of your government is a napkin. http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_1439217 http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah...
- draw_down 8y ago?
- sct202 8y agoI read on the Layoff they had about 11.4k applicants, and 90% of them were accepted. Looks like the first wave is out starting Dec 28th. With such a large cut it would be weird to be rejected, I would feel an awkward mix of jealousy and loss to go back to work afterwards.
- teachrdan 8y agoWouldn't it be a compliment of sorts to be determined too valuable to be let go?
- C1sc0cat 8y agoDepends on the terms I know a lot in the UK who did this got a massive taxfree redundancy payment - then went to work for a competitor or went freelance my old boss went back to fixing COBOL
- jhare 8y agoI've been there, it's not really a good feeling since the remaining pressure can be burdensome depending on how much your company cuts. "You're too valuable to let go! Best yet is you don't have all those pesky coworkers!" Whatever leftover slop the company feeds you from the remains of your coworkers won't have that satisfying flavor.
- pkaye 8y agoWhat I have realized is that in such companies your importance to a company is only as much as the next project. When project agendas changes, next time might be your turn. So take it as a warning to find a better place soon as possible.
- root_axis 8y agoSounds to me like the rejection is a tacit admission by the company that you're too valuable to lose.
- rashomon 8y agoThat would be a fantastic way to ask for a raise.
- taurath 8y agoSo.. they finished laying the groundwork for their 5g network, and now they won’t need 7% of their workforce until 6g starts to go in 6-10 years?
- apexalpha 8y agoEvery ISP in the world is shedding employees. Every generation the network gets more digitized, more virtualised and you simply need less people to maintain and update it.
- mlthoughts2018 8y agoAt least the described severance benefit might be on the correct order of magnitude to be considered reasonable and not totally and odiously evil, “As part of the separation program, the employees will get a salary of up to 60 weeks, bonus and benefits, depending on the length of their service, Verizon said.” This is why I always advise people to negotiate significance severance benefits up front, on the order of 6 months for junior employees, a year + bonuses and continued benefits for experienced employees. Companies absolutely agree to severance amounts like this, even for new grads, and sayingno to a company that won’t is just doing yourself a favor.
- hayksaakian 8y agoIf it's "up to" 60 weeks like they offer "up to X" internet speeds, then they're selling the best case but probably delivering half that.
- rayiner 8y agoI get you're trying to make a joke, but it's a weird criticism of Verizon specifically. Every FiOS circuit I've had over the last 15 years, except for some growing pains with gigabit, has tested at 10% over its rated speed. Verizon also has particularly generous compensation: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/14/business/verizon-workers-strike.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/14/business/verizon-workers-... (union members make $130,000 on average in salary and benefits).
- ryandrake 8y agoI just got back from Thanksgiving visiting my folks in rural PA where Verizon DSL is the only so-called high speed option, and it barely worked. I often could not even load the speed test pages. They were getting far less (10-20%?) than advertised. I thought the joke was brilliant and apt.
- jandrese 8y agoVerizon DSL and Verizon FiOS are entirely different beasts. Your parents are likely right on the edge of DSL availability, where it starts to get really flaky.
- sdinsn 8y agoPutting the tax cuts to work, I see... Edit: I must have already triggered some right-wing snowflakes
- dang 8y agoPlease don't post flamebait on HN, and please don't use it for repetitive political battle. This is a site for intellectual curiosity, and those things don't go together. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- padseeker 8y agoI'm so glad we passed those corporate tax cuts that created all those jobs and helped provide for all those raises everyone got....
- JustSomeNobody 8y agoThere should be a box on our tax forms for "Adopt a Shareholder" so at the very least we can name the person we want to get our money. Talk about entitlements. These companies seem to think they're entitled to our money.
- qaq 8y agoHere you go those greedy shareholders: Vanguard Group, Inc. 7.26% Blackrock Inc. 6.54% State Street Corporation 3.83% Capital Research Global Investors 2.92% Wellington Management Company, LLP 2.80% oh wait thats actually your retirement money
- JustSomeNobody 8y agoOh, so they're not greedy because they hold our retirement funds? I guess that makes it all OK then? You keep voting for those corporate tax cuts. I won't.
- qaq 8y agoWho are "They" Vanguard is owned by people holding money in Vanguard funds for example so in case you have your retirement $ in Vanguard "They" is literally you.
- dd36 8y agoThat's a red herring. We could cut taxes to zero and your investments may go up a little temporarily but it would be catastrophic in medium-to-long term as the dollar collapses and Americans go through a depression and likely a war.
- 8y ago
- 2bitencryption 8y ago> The New York-based company has been looking at cutting costs as it ramps up investment in its next generation 5G network, which is expected to fuel growth. "we're about to grow a ton, better cut 10k jobs to maximize those gains." that just sounds so... weird to me.
- mikelward 8y agoI assume it's just their way of working "5G" buzzword into every press release.
- lotsofpulp 8y agoA businesses’s goal isn’t to increase expenses.
- Alex3917 8y ago> "we're about to grow a ton, better cut 10k jobs to maximize those gains." It makes perfect sense. T-Mobile basically bought up all the spectrum in the last round of bidding because they got a $4B breakup fee from AT&T as part of AT&T's failed acquisition. That has put all the other U.S. carriers on the defensive, because if they can't win a significant percentage of the 5G spectrum then they're going to be out of business.
- dd36 8y agoWait, Verizon doesn't have access to $4B? Verizon surely has significantly more net income than Tmobile. And therefore also has access to more leverage. $4B would not make that big of a difference.
- bduerst 8y agoVerizon makes about $4 B in quarterly net income, but they only have about $2 B cash on hand and have investors who expect a $2.4 B dividend each quarter. So yeah, this is a hard purchase for them, especially since they also have $209 B in liabilities already.
- yuy910616 8y agowait a sec...i read it's 44,000 like a few days ago. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeanbaptiste/2018/10/05/verizon-lays-off-44000-transfers-2500-more-it-jobs-to-indian-outsourcer-infosys/#31711eba46f5 https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeanbaptiste/2018/10/05/verizon...
- kanox 8y agoAlso tumblr?
- porpoisely 8y agoI guess their fios price increases the past few years isn't going to their workforce. Does this mean they are done increasing the price for a while now?
- bogomipz 8y agoSo they're offsetting the Capex of their 5G rollout by eliminating employees that helped make Verizon 3G and 4G rollouts a success and the company a ton of cash? That seems like a pretty bad precedent if so. Also why would a brand new network deployment require any less head count? I assume they will just hire new workers when the uptake in 5G begins in earnest?
- dfxm12 8y agoI assume they will just hire new workers when the uptake in 5G begins in earnest? Probably at lower wages to boot.
- roymurdock 8y agoJudging by the posts on this layoff board, most of the layoffs are older, more expensive folk, so it seems like Verizon is going to bring on younger cheaper labor just ahead of its rollout of 5G...we'll see how that plays out. Also it sounds like 44k people were offered the voluntary severance package and 10k accepted...almost 1/3 of the organization was offered a VSP? Insane: https://www.thelayoff.com/t/WynLh8d#replies https://www.thelayoff.com/t/WynLh8d#replies
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- paul7986 8y agoSo are they going all 5G for residential Fios broadband ... offering FIOs nationally over 5G? For consumers that would be great and I’m sure other carriers would follow. If they do Comcast will suffer and millions of consumers will have a choice of residential broadband vs. only one player. Thus I wonder if these job cuts are happening mostly in their wireline business that’s unionized?
- tracker1 8y agoI'm not entirely sure... Wireless is shared bandwidth and fairly constrained, even with 5G tech. Interference is another huge issue if they tried. It would be somewhat nice for more rural areas where broadband feels like it's stuck in the late 90's (even in areas not so rural). It's also worth noting that Verizon is also the most expensive wireless carrier out there by a pretty good margin. I only use them because when I'm on road trips, they're often the only provider I get signal with. If I were just in town, I'd probably switch to a lower cost carrier, and rely on wifi more.
- cpr 8y agoA bit off-topic, but is 5G really the deadly killer that the conspiracy boards are bantering about?
- sonnyblarney 8y agoThe cuts are voluntary, and people are getting 1 years salary out of it. I suggest a lot of people are more than happy to take it in a good job market. That people are making the choice - and many don't seem to mind doing it, makes this quite a different thing than a regular layoff. Apparently churn has been high, and people leaving their jobs voluntarily is in some ways a good sign for the economy. They certainly don't do that when times are bad.