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Official announcement - https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog/announcing-the-epic-games-store https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog/announcing-the-epic-...

by Reedx 8y ago

Official announcement - https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog/announcing-the-epic-games-store https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog/announcing-the-epic-... "Developers receive 88% of revenue. There are no tiers or thresholds. Epic takes 12%. And if you’re using Unreal Engine, Epic will cover the 5% engine royalty for sales on the Epic Games store, out of Epic’s 12%." "From Epic’s 12% store fee, we’ll have a profitable business we’ll grow and reinvest in for years to come!" This is great news for indies who Steam seems to be ignoring[1] lately in favor of AAA. Maybe that will eventually put enough pressure on them to at least reduce their cut. There's been increasing concern over whether it's worth it for indies given the lack of visibility. If you have to push an audience there anyway, is it worth the 30%? Jason Rohrer[2] and Positech Games[3] for example have been successful outside of Steam keeping a much larger piece of the pie. 1. http://greyaliengames.com/blog/steams-discovery-algorithm-killed-my-sales/ http://greyaliengames.com/blog/steams-discovery-algorithm-ki... 2. https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2018-03-12-jason-rohrers-off-steam-paid-off https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2018-03-12-jason-rohr... 3. https://www.positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/2018/11/23/selling-games-direct-from-your-website-in-2018/ https://www.positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/2018/11/23/selling-gam...

jamp897 8y ago
This link has some Q&A with Tim too with more details: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-12-04-fortnite-maker-epic-takes-on-steam-with-its-own-pc-games-store https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-12-04-fortnite-maker...
- corysama 8y ago
  More Q&A https://www.gameinformer.com/2018/12/03/tim-sweeney-answers-questions-about-the-new-epic-games-store https://www.gameinformer.com/2018/12/03/tim-sweeney-answers-...
  - Reedx 8y ago
    Sounds like they took a page from Bezos' playbook. Your margin is my opportunity. "In our analysis, stores are marking up their costs 300 percent to 400 percent. We simply aim to give developers a better deal."
drharby 8y ago
The timing of yesterdays hn post and this announcement...hhmmmmm. almost as if it was coordinated. Hmmmmmmm Edit - i love the silent dv brigade for making an observation and starti ng dialogue. Dont go changing onme hn!!!
- jamp897 8y ago
  They let Valve know in advance I’m sure, it’s a small industry and the polite thing to do with friends.
  - dec0dedab0de 8y ago
    Absolutely, especially since they already work together. I don't think there is anything wrong with this, but it made me think, when does it cross the line into collusion or price fixing?
    - org3432 8y ago
      When the prices are the same :) But I don't think they told them the prices, just that they were going to announce a store.
    - josephv 8y ago
      Other articles on hn mention correctly that right now in technology monopolies are the norm and anti-trust is dead (maybe a little dramatization there). The 30% cut from distribution platforms is arbitrary, not based on cost, but rather implicit collusion based on what apple can extract from their flock. I'd say this Epic launcher is a great exception to this and I hope it sticks.
- tzs 8y ago
  What HN post yesterday?
  - drharby 8y ago
    Greyaliengames posted a blog about the steam marketplace algo killing sales
notafraudster 8y ago
"This is great news for indies who Steam seems to be ignoring[1]" Your citation suggests that in this context, ignoring means "potentially offering them fewer page referrals from advertising slots, relying on them to generate organic traffic". I mention this, because the interview with Tim Sweeney posted in response to your comment says: "Generally, we want to enable a more direct relationship between developers and gamers, and more efficient economics and discovery. Developers will control their product pages, free of advertising for competing games." The reduced margin will definitely benefit all developers, but the Grey Alien guy recently tweeted that margin wasn't the problem because 30% of nothing is nothing, and his issue is no one discovering his games. I would say who the Epic approach benefits is sort of "Big Indie" -- developers large enough to self-generate momentum but small enough not to benefit from the improved revenue split. Thinking of teams like Double Fine and games like Stardew Valley here.
- Reedx 8y ago
  > ... margin wasn't the problem because 30% of nothing is nothing, and his issue is no one discovering his games. Doesn't that make the 30% all the more problematic? If you have to bring eyes to your Steam page anyway, you might as well just sell direct. From Grey Alien, "In the past I have felt positive about Steam, but these discovery changes and the recent revenue share changes that are only relevant to hugely successful games don’t make me feel particularly positive about the future of selling games on Steam."
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - DuskStar 8y ago
    I can say with confidence that I am much more willing to drop $5 on a game via Steam than <random 3rd party site>. Aside from the obvious "is this a scam" aspects, Steam means that I will have the game even when the dev goes under in 5 years, that my save states will be backed up, and that at least some of the reviews might not be faked. That 30% might be painful, but at the same time Steam provides a LOT of utility to the buyer.
laythea 8y ago
"...if you’re using Unreal Engine, Epic will cover the 5% engine royalty for sales on the Epic Games store, out of Epic’s 12%." So there is a bias in the Epic store towards Unreal titles then, contrary to what I just read.
- thaumasiotes 8y ago
  Only in the same sense that there's a bias in the Epic store towards listing your game in the Epic store rather than somewhere else with higher fees.
- gamblor956 8y ago
  No bias. If you sell a Unity game, the fee to Epic is 12%. If you sell an Unreal Game, the fee would have been 12% for the store plus 5% for engine royalties for a total of 17%, which would strongly dis-incentivize developers from using Epic's own engine. Epic is simply waiving that 5% engine royalty so that its store is game-engine-agnostic.
  - chii 8y ago
    You forgot to mention the Unity cut in your sum. Epic is certainly not making the store engine neutral. It costs less to use unreal than unity.
    - gamblor956 8y ago
      Unity is royalty-free altogether, you pay a subscription for the development tools (think Adobe CC or MS Office365) and get all upgrades during your subscription. You can alternatively not pay a subscription fee at all, and accept certain restrictions on your engine's capabilities, mostly on the use of enterprise-level features an indie developer wouldn't have the resources to use anyway. So, by eliminating the 5% engine royalty for its own store, Epic is making Unreal also free and thus engine choice is not a deciding factor in whether to use Epic's store. IOW/tldr: Unity and Unreal cost the same amount of money to use and license if you sell through the Epic store.
a_imho 8y ago
Why not use alternatives like itch.io? Revenue sharing looks hard to beat [1]. [1]https://itch.io/updates/introducing-open-revenue-sharing https://itch.io/updates/introducing-open-revenue-sharing
ksec 8y ago
This is actually a genius move. Everyone is so concerned about the 12% and its rivalry between Steam, and not see this from an Unreal Engine perspective. Instead of Getting 5% from the Game sold as EPIC are currently used to now, they are now getting 12% with an additional Gaming App Store. That is an 240% increase in revenue with very little additional offering. Unfortunately I think Unity May see this as a threat, Now what if Unity decide to make an App Store for 7% revenue, which should effectively be a non profit model after you take away the 3% Credit Card charges and CDN cost. Anyway both would be good as we continue to push forward the Middleware Gaming Engine.

by Reedx 8y ago

jamp897 8y ago

This link has some Q&A with Tim too with more details: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-12-04-fortnite-maker-epic-takes-on-steam-with-its-own-pc-games-store https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-12-04-fortnite-maker...

corysama 8y ago
More Q&A https://www.gameinformer.com/2018/12/03/tim-sweeney-answers-questions-about-the-new-epic-games-store https://www.gameinformer.com/2018/12/03/tim-sweeney-answers-...
- Reedx 8y ago
  Sounds like they took a page from Bezos' playbook. Your margin is my opportunity. "In our analysis, stores are marking up their costs 300 percent to 400 percent. We simply aim to give developers a better deal."

drharby 8y ago

The timing of yesterdays hn post and this announcement...hhmmmmm. almost as if it was coordinated. Hmmmmmmm Edit - i love the silent dv brigade for making an observation and starti ng dialogue. Dont go changing onme hn!!!

jamp897 8y ago
They let Valve know in advance I’m sure, it’s a small industry and the polite thing to do with friends.
- dec0dedab0de 8y ago
  Absolutely, especially since they already work together. I don't think there is anything wrong with this, but it made me think, when does it cross the line into collusion or price fixing?
  - org3432 8y ago
    When the prices are the same :) But I don't think they told them the prices, just that they were going to announce a store.
  - josephv 8y ago
    Other articles on hn mention correctly that right now in technology monopolies are the norm and anti-trust is dead (maybe a little dramatization there). The 30% cut from distribution platforms is arbitrary, not based on cost, but rather implicit collusion based on what apple can extract from their flock. I'd say this Epic launcher is a great exception to this and I hope it sticks.
tzs 8y ago
What HN post yesterday?
- drharby 8y ago
  Greyaliengames posted a blog about the steam marketplace algo killing sales

notafraudster 8y ago

"This is great news for indies who Steam seems to be ignoring[1]" Your citation suggests that in this context, ignoring means "potentially offering them fewer page referrals from advertising slots, relying on them to generate organic traffic". I mention this, because the interview with Tim Sweeney posted in response to your comment says: "Generally, we want to enable a more direct relationship between developers and gamers, and more efficient economics and discovery. Developers will control their product pages, free of advertising for competing games." The reduced margin will definitely benefit all developers, but the Grey Alien guy recently tweeted that margin wasn't the problem because 30% of nothing is nothing, and his issue is no one discovering his games. I would say who the Epic approach benefits is sort of "Big Indie" -- developers large enough to self-generate momentum but small enough not to benefit from the improved revenue split. Thinking of teams like Double Fine and games like Stardew Valley here.

Reedx 8y ago
> ... margin wasn't the problem because 30% of nothing is nothing, and his issue is no one discovering his games. Doesn't that make the 30% all the more problematic? If you have to bring eyes to your Steam page anyway, you might as well just sell direct. From Grey Alien, "In the past I have felt positive about Steam, but these discovery changes and the recent revenue share changes that are only relevant to hugely successful games don’t make me feel particularly positive about the future of selling games on Steam."
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- DuskStar 8y ago
  I can say with confidence that I am much more willing to drop $5 on a game via Steam than <random 3rd party site>. Aside from the obvious "is this a scam" aspects, Steam means that I will have the game even when the dev goes under in 5 years, that my save states will be backed up, and that at least some of the reviews might not be faked. That 30% might be painful, but at the same time Steam provides a LOT of utility to the buyer.

laythea 8y ago

"...if you’re using Unreal Engine, Epic will cover the 5% engine royalty for sales on the Epic Games store, out of Epic’s 12%." So there is a bias in the Epic store towards Unreal titles then, contrary to what I just read.

thaumasiotes 8y ago
Only in the same sense that there's a bias in the Epic store towards listing your game in the Epic store rather than somewhere else with higher fees.
gamblor956 8y ago
No bias. If you sell a Unity game, the fee to Epic is 12%. If you sell an Unreal Game, the fee would have been 12% for the store plus 5% for engine royalties for a total of 17%, which would strongly dis-incentivize developers from using Epic's own engine. Epic is simply waiving that 5% engine royalty so that its store is game-engine-agnostic.
- chii 8y ago
  You forgot to mention the Unity cut in your sum. Epic is certainly not making the store engine neutral. It costs less to use unreal than unity.
  - gamblor956 8y ago
    Unity is royalty-free altogether, you pay a subscription for the development tools (think Adobe CC or MS Office365) and get all upgrades during your subscription. You can alternatively not pay a subscription fee at all, and accept certain restrictions on your engine's capabilities, mostly on the use of enterprise-level features an indie developer wouldn't have the resources to use anyway. So, by eliminating the 5% engine royalty for its own store, Epic is making Unreal also free and thus engine choice is not a deciding factor in whether to use Epic's store. IOW/tldr: Unity and Unreal cost the same amount of money to use and license if you sell through the Epic store.

a_imho 8y ago

Why not use alternatives like itch.io? Revenue sharing looks hard to beat [1]. [1]https://itch.io/updates/introducing-open-revenue-sharing https://itch.io/updates/introducing-open-revenue-sharing

ksec 8y ago

This is actually a genius move. Everyone is so concerned about the 12% and its rivalry between Steam, and not see this from an Unreal Engine perspective. Instead of Getting 5% from the Game sold as EPIC are currently used to now, they are now getting 12% with an additional Gaming App Store. That is an 240% increase in revenue with very little additional offering. Unfortunately I think Unity May see this as a threat, Now what if Unity decide to make an App Store for 7% revenue, which should effectively be a non profit model after you take away the 3% Credit Card charges and CDN cost. Anyway both would be good as we continue to push forward the Middleware Gaming Engine.