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Any article on why US manufactures of vehicles focus on trucks instead of cars and does not mention the chicken tax [1] has not really done their homework. In 1

Any article on why US manufactures of vehicles focus on trucks instead of cars and does not mention the chicken tax [1] has not really done their homework. In 1965 a 25% tax was put on imported trucks due to a trade fight with Europe on chicken imports. This 25% tax is still in effect today. SUVs were also put in the truck category for some time and it is not clear which truck like vehicles will be taxed. This is why almost all trucks and SUVs made by non-US companies are manufactured in the US. Profit margins on US made trucks have been much larger than autos for a long time(mostly due to this tax) and I imagine that all the marketing of the US auto companies over 40 years to get people to buy them instead of sedans has had quite an effect. Once a large number of people are driving tall trucks and SUVs, driving a car is much less comfortable, as you can't see past the truck in front of you from a low sedan. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax

jonknee 8y ago
I think cheaper gas and long commutes has way more of an effect for Americans preferring larger vehicles than fewer foreign trucks being available.
- njarboe 8y ago
  Correct, Americans have preferred larger cars for a long time. American cars in the 50' and 60's were quite large, especially luxury brands. For families, the large station wagon with a huge engine to tow a boat on the weekend and weighing over 2 tons were not uncommon[1]. Americans preferred cars over trucks and I image would have continued to do so if a huge amount of marketing over decades was not used to convince people to buy vehicles that were protected from foreign competition with a 25% import tax. [1]https://www.automobile-catalog.com/car/1965/787220/ford_country_squire_station_wagon_thunderbird_special_v-8_cruise-o-matic.html https://www.automobile-catalog.com/car/1965/787220/ford_coun...
  - Gibbon1 8y ago
    Also for a very long time trucks got to skate on emissions and safety regulations.
    - WalterBright 8y ago
      I think trucks were also exempted from fuel economy regulations. This all combined to kill off the station wagon.
- kenhwang 8y ago
  Americans being larger physically and more likely to be overweight probably also has a pretty large effect.
  - WalterBright 8y ago
    Just look at Tom Selleck in Magnum PI trying to drive the Ferrari. They had to take the seat bottom out, and even then he always drove it with the roof off. His knees flanked the steering wheel. They had a scene once where he drove a jag, and the top bezel around the windshield was right at eye level.
  - Spooky23 8y ago
    Not sure why you are getting downvoted. 6’5” here and I was disappointed that I wasn’t replacing my 1997 Accord with a 2018. Safety regulations make cars heavier and efficiency requirements make them more aerodynamic. End result is that I cannot physically fit in an Accord without reclining the seat.
    - Scoundreller 8y ago
      How do taller European countries manage with their smaller cars then? Germans, Dutch, even the Spaniards are taller on average than Americans.
      - kenhwang 8y ago
        The average US male weighs 195.8lb and is 5'9" tall. The average German male weighs 181.7lb and is also 5'9" tall. So Americans are either more muscular or more fat than Germans, either of which would make them larger. Personal anecdote, my 6'3" friends have no problem fitting in my Porsche Cayman with several inches of headroom to spare, and that's about as short as German cars go. I think the Germans just prioritize vertical space in their cabins more than the Japanese.
        wyclif 8y ago
        I'm 5'9" (average height in the US) and normal weight/healthy. I own a Honda Accord and while I love the car, I have to adjust the seat as far back as it will go because I have long legs.
mtw 8y ago
Also. You get a big truck/SUV for the same reason people prefer a big TV or a large suburban home than a 2 bedroom condo. Bigger is better, at least in the U.S.
- bsamuels 8y ago
  it's also because Americans spend a lot more time in their car than their friends across the pond. if you're in your car for 2 hours a day commuting, driving the kids around, etc, then bigger is better and more comfortable
  - fhood 8y ago
    A 2003 diesel jetta is way better on the highway than a 2015 ford explorer.
    - flictonic 8y ago
      This is an absolutely crazy response. In no world is a 15 year old economy sedan more comfortable for a highway commute than a newer SUV. The only argument you could make is fuel economy.
      - CydeWeys 8y ago
        The diesel Jetta emits way more particulate pollution than a modern gasoline-burning SUV, too. Like over an order of magnitude more.
      - marcosdumay 8y ago
        I imagine the GP was talking about easiness to drive. Low cars are more stable and lighter cars accelerate better (not only on speed-ups, but while breaking too). Overall, driving a truck is much more stressing than a car.
        flictonic 8y ago
        But we're specifically talking about highway commutes where driving dynamics don't really come into play. IMO, the higher position alone makes driving an SUV superior on the highway but the 2003 Jetta reference is what really makes the comment absurd.
Alex3917 8y ago
> Once a large number of people are driving tall trucks and SUVs, driving a car is much less comfortable, as you can't see past the truck in front of you from a low sedan. So just don't tailgate the car in front of you and then it doesn't matter. If the only way you're going to be able to stop in time is if you can see past/through the car in front of you then you're not driving safely to begin with.
- paulie_a 8y ago
  If you don't sort of tailgate get ready for someone driving an SUV/truck to cut you off. I'm not saying be on their bumper, just close enough to keep others from dangerously cutting in front of you.
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    That's not a car/SUV thing. That's just a reflection of natural preferred following distance vs minimum acceptable merging space vs amount of available space on the roads.
    - paulie_a 8y ago
      I honestly don't understand the purpose of this reply in regards to the original post. It literally has nothing to do with what I was referring to.
- mtnGoat 8y ago
  i think you missed the point, it's not just a safety thing... its annoying as well. even with proper following distance, seeing more than the car in front of you adds to your safety.
  - Alex3917 8y ago
    > even with proper following distance, seeing more than the car in front of you adds to your safety. The proper following distance is around 100 yards, and at that distance you should have no trouble seeing around an SUV.
coredog64 8y ago
Most manufacturers have already figured out how to game the chicken tax. For example, Ford installs seats that are removed and destroyed after each Transit Connect reaches the US [0]. I've heard other stories about Subaru doing something similar so that their CAFE metrics weren't screwed. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Transit_Connect#Tariff_circumvention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Transit_Connect#Tariff_ci....
- iguy 8y ago
  The story with the Transit Connect is that it counts as a car (for this tax) while it has the seats, but would counts as a truck when configured for cargo. But if this same tax discourages (say) Toyota from importing SUVs, then they must count as trucks always, even when configured for passengers. So this loophole doesn't help them. I thought CAFE was a major factor, as (if I understand right) it discourages big powerful cars, but is silent on trucks including SUVs.
  - kipchak 8y ago
    I think CAFEs silence on trucks is partially why small 3rd rows have become more popular on crossovers. If there's a third row it qualifies as a truck versus a car or wagon, I believe the same is true of features like 4WD or sufficient ground clearance.
- SilasX 8y ago
  I'm more interested in learning why there's a lacking feedback mechanism for "hey, that's not what we wanted, let's revisit the regulations for what we were trying to achieve".
  - Consultant32452 8y ago
    That was last election/donation's problem.
  - allemagne 8y ago
    First we need to put carseat-destroying subsidies in place so that hard-working American carseat-destroyers aren't put out of a job.
pixelperfect 8y ago
Interestingly enough Donald Trump tweeted about this the other day: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1067791101782831104 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/10677911017828311... https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1067792610180456448 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/10677926101804564...
black6 8y ago
> Profit margins on US made trucks have been much larger than autos for a long time(mostly due to this tax) I think it may have more to do with selling fuel efficient compact cars and sedans at a loss in order to sell enough to offset the poor economy of the American Truck™ and meet CAFE requirements.
zelon88 8y ago
This is also why the Subaru Brat had rear seats. Because it allowed Subaru to classify the vehicle as a car instead of a truck, circumventing the Chicken Tax.
wil421 8y ago
BMWs largest factory is in Spartanburg, South Carolina and they produce X series vehicles. Mercedes also makes a lot if not all the the GL line in Alabama. They both export out of the US as well. I suppose it helps American manufacturing and creates jobs. I don’t like “trade wars” but import taxes are not all bad. In my opinion US trucks are the best SUVs are great but too large for what folks use them for. Japan is good with both cars, suvs, and trucks but they are lackluster on the inside. German cars are my favorite but they are expensive to maintain and unreliable. American cars are terrible unless you like muscle cars.

jonknee 8y ago

I think cheaper gas and long commutes has way more of an effect for Americans preferring larger vehicles than fewer foreign trucks being available.

njarboe 8y ago
Correct, Americans have preferred larger cars for a long time. American cars in the 50' and 60's were quite large, especially luxury brands. For families, the large station wagon with a huge engine to tow a boat on the weekend and weighing over 2 tons were not uncommon[1]. Americans preferred cars over trucks and I image would have continued to do so if a huge amount of marketing over decades was not used to convince people to buy vehicles that were protected from foreign competition with a 25% import tax. [1]https://www.automobile-catalog.com/car/1965/787220/ford_country_squire_station_wagon_thunderbird_special_v-8_cruise-o-matic.html https://www.automobile-catalog.com/car/1965/787220/ford_coun...
- Gibbon1 8y ago
  Also for a very long time trucks got to skate on emissions and safety regulations.
  - WalterBright 8y ago
    I think trucks were also exempted from fuel economy regulations. This all combined to kill off the station wagon.
kenhwang 8y ago
Americans being larger physically and more likely to be overweight probably also has a pretty large effect.
- WalterBright 8y ago
  Just look at Tom Selleck in Magnum PI trying to drive the Ferrari. They had to take the seat bottom out, and even then he always drove it with the roof off. His knees flanked the steering wheel. They had a scene once where he drove a jag, and the top bezel around the windshield was right at eye level.
- Spooky23 8y ago
  Not sure why you are getting downvoted. 6’5” here and I was disappointed that I wasn’t replacing my 1997 Accord with a 2018. Safety regulations make cars heavier and efficiency requirements make them more aerodynamic. End result is that I cannot physically fit in an Accord without reclining the seat.
  - Scoundreller 8y ago
    How do taller European countries manage with their smaller cars then? Germans, Dutch, even the Spaniards are taller on average than Americans.
    - kenhwang 8y ago
      The average US male weighs 195.8lb and is 5'9" tall. The average German male weighs 181.7lb and is also 5'9" tall. So Americans are either more muscular or more fat than Germans, either of which would make them larger. Personal anecdote, my 6'3" friends have no problem fitting in my Porsche Cayman with several inches of headroom to spare, and that's about as short as German cars go. I think the Germans just prioritize vertical space in their cabins more than the Japanese.
      - wyclif 8y ago
        I'm 5'9" (average height in the US) and normal weight/healthy. I own a Honda Accord and while I love the car, I have to adjust the seat as far back as it will go because I have long legs.

mtw 8y ago

Also. You get a big truck/SUV for the same reason people prefer a big TV or a large suburban home than a 2 bedroom condo. Bigger is better, at least in the U.S.

bsamuels 8y ago
it's also because Americans spend a lot more time in their car than their friends across the pond. if you're in your car for 2 hours a day commuting, driving the kids around, etc, then bigger is better and more comfortable
- fhood 8y ago
  A 2003 diesel jetta is way better on the highway than a 2015 ford explorer.
  - flictonic 8y ago
    This is an absolutely crazy response. In no world is a 15 year old economy sedan more comfortable for a highway commute than a newer SUV. The only argument you could make is fuel economy.
    - CydeWeys 8y ago
      The diesel Jetta emits way more particulate pollution than a modern gasoline-burning SUV, too. Like over an order of magnitude more.
    - marcosdumay 8y ago
      I imagine the GP was talking about easiness to drive. Low cars are more stable and lighter cars accelerate better (not only on speed-ups, but while breaking too). Overall, driving a truck is much more stressing than a car.
      - flictonic 8y ago
        But we're specifically talking about highway commutes where driving dynamics don't really come into play. IMO, the higher position alone makes driving an SUV superior on the highway but the 2003 Jetta reference is what really makes the comment absurd.

Alex3917 8y ago

> Once a large number of people are driving tall trucks and SUVs, driving a car is much less comfortable, as you can't see past the truck in front of you from a low sedan. So just don't tailgate the car in front of you and then it doesn't matter. If the only way you're going to be able to stop in time is if you can see past/through the car in front of you then you're not driving safely to begin with.

paulie_a 8y ago
If you don't sort of tailgate get ready for someone driving an SUV/truck to cut you off. I'm not saying be on their bumper, just close enough to keep others from dangerously cutting in front of you.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  That's not a car/SUV thing. That's just a reflection of natural preferred following distance vs minimum acceptable merging space vs amount of available space on the roads.
  - paulie_a 8y ago
    I honestly don't understand the purpose of this reply in regards to the original post. It literally has nothing to do with what I was referring to.
mtnGoat 8y ago
i think you missed the point, it's not just a safety thing... its annoying as well. even with proper following distance, seeing more than the car in front of you adds to your safety.
- Alex3917 8y ago
  > even with proper following distance, seeing more than the car in front of you adds to your safety. The proper following distance is around 100 yards, and at that distance you should have no trouble seeing around an SUV.

coredog64 8y ago

Most manufacturers have already figured out how to game the chicken tax. For example, Ford installs seats that are removed and destroyed after each Transit Connect reaches the US [0]. I've heard other stories about Subaru doing something similar so that their CAFE metrics weren't screwed. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Transit_Connect#Tariff_circumvention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Transit_Connect#Tariff_ci....

iguy 8y ago
The story with the Transit Connect is that it counts as a car (for this tax) while it has the seats, but would counts as a truck when configured for cargo. But if this same tax discourages (say) Toyota from importing SUVs, then they must count as trucks always, even when configured for passengers. So this loophole doesn't help them. I thought CAFE was a major factor, as (if I understand right) it discourages big powerful cars, but is silent on trucks including SUVs.
- kipchak 8y ago
  I think CAFEs silence on trucks is partially why small 3rd rows have become more popular on crossovers. If there's a third row it qualifies as a truck versus a car or wagon, I believe the same is true of features like 4WD or sufficient ground clearance.
SilasX 8y ago
I'm more interested in learning why there's a lacking feedback mechanism for "hey, that's not what we wanted, let's revisit the regulations for what we were trying to achieve".
- Consultant32452 8y ago
  That was last election/donation's problem.
- allemagne 8y ago
  First we need to put carseat-destroying subsidies in place so that hard-working American carseat-destroyers aren't put out of a job.

pixelperfect 8y ago

Interestingly enough Donald Trump tweeted about this the other day: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1067791101782831104 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/10677911017828311... https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1067792610180456448 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/10677926101804564...

black6 8y ago

> Profit margins on US made trucks have been much larger than autos for a long time(mostly due to this tax) I think it may have more to do with selling fuel efficient compact cars and sedans at a loss in order to sell enough to offset the poor economy of the American Truck™ and meet CAFE requirements.

zelon88 8y ago

This is also why the Subaru Brat had rear seats. Because it allowed Subaru to classify the vehicle as a car instead of a truck, circumventing the Chicken Tax.

wil421 8y ago

BMWs largest factory is in Spartanburg, South Carolina and they produce X series vehicles. Mercedes also makes a lot if not all the the GL line in Alabama. They both export out of the US as well. I suppose it helps American manufacturing and creates jobs. I don’t like “trade wars” but import taxes are not all bad. In my opinion US trucks are the best SUVs are great but too large for what folks use them for. Japan is good with both cars, suvs, and trucks but they are lackluster on the inside. German cars are my favorite but they are expensive to maintain and unreliable. American cars are terrible unless you like muscle cars.