5 ms·

When people will realize that carbs are the only non-essential macronutrient? The sports community (especially bodybuilding) knows that for decades. If an athl

When people will realize that carbs are the only non-essential macronutrient? The sports community (especially bodybuilding) knows that for decades. If an athlete says to me that a thing he does to his body work 95% of the time, I would consider to try it, and already did, some things against over-the-counter conventional medicine like this no-carb diet.

ryanwaggoner 8y ago
Bodybuilders eat plenty of carbs.
- sfotm 8y ago
  Not sure why this is being downvoted, bodybuilders do eat carbs - they just time them appropriately. If you're about to work out, carbohydrates will help you get through it. On the other hand, if you're going to be sedentary for a while, or you're really trying to prioritize fat loss, you probably wouldn't eat as many carbs. Of course, Keto is a thing, but I haven't heard many stories of bodybuilders that actually target the keto-state. It's about getting the right amount of carbohydrates (hint: not as much as most people eat).
  - brandonmenc 8y ago
    If by "time them appropriately" you mean "constantly all day long", then yeah. Unless they're prepping for a contest, which is not what they spend the majority of their time doing.
- razakel 8y ago
  No they don't. A bodybuilding diet is mostly protein, then certain fats, then starchy carbs at the right time (breakfast and post-workout).
  - have_faith 8y ago
    > A bodybuilding diet is mostly protein Bodybuilders typically consume about ~30% protein. Where did you get the idea that it is mostly protein? Not to say that there aren't outliers obviously.
  - ryanwaggoner 8y ago
    Umm, no. If you're eating 1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight (which is on the high end) and you weigh 200 pounds, that's about 1200 calories from protein, out of diet that's likely 3000 - 3500 calories. A common recommendation I see is for about 20-25% to come from fat, and the remaining from carbs, preferably complex carbs.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - brandonmenc 8y ago
    https://renaissanceperiodization.com/case-high-carb-massing https://renaissanceperiodization.com/case-high-carb-massing Just about every bodybuilder slams carbs, all day long.
- barrow-rider 8y ago
  Yeah brown rice is fairly popular. Chicken breast + broc + brown rice... for every meal. Oh and oatmeal.
i_cant_speel 8y ago
Where is the connection you're making between carbs being unnecessary and bodybuilders coming from?
- emersonrsantos 8y ago
  Bodybuilders use carbs restrictions (keto, intermittent, kind - complex vs simple carbs) to regulate muscle mass and fat, insulin and GH sensitivity, water retention mediated by glycogen, etc...
  - i_cant_speel 8y ago
    Leading up to a competition and getting into single digit BF%, yes. But throughout most of the year they are generally consuming a good amount of carbs. I don't think using bodybuilders as an example translates well to good habits for the general population.
- jlawson 8y ago
  Traditional diets include lots of carbs. Bodybuilders realized early that protein is good for muscle growth. So they started eating tons of protein, and reducing other macronutrients. They realized after a while that carbs can actually be cut out totally and indefinitely (which is not true of protein and fat). They discovered this because nobody else had a reason to try to eat such a strange, protein-focused diet. At least in modern societies. Of course the Inuit and other far-north peoples have known forever that one can live healthily off essentially nothing but meat.
  - bluGill 8y ago
    Inuit and other far north people will eat vegetables by preference when they can get them. Sure you can survive on none, I will contend that to thrive you need a balance. Note than balance does not mean soda is the bulk of your calories (that should be a straw man, but I see many people who drink that much soda).
have_faith 8y ago
It's only non-essential because your body has backup mechanisms for when carbs aren't available, ketosis for instance. That doesn't mean it's an ideal state to be in constantly.
- GordonS 8y ago
  That's an odd way to look at it - given we need fat and protein, I'd rather think that carbs were the 'backup' mechanism.
  - have_faith 8y ago
    My subjective opinions on the matter: Ketosis only kicks in when carbs are sufficiently low, ketosis is required because protein as an energy source cannot pass the blood brain barrier and so needs to be converted to ketones before it can be utilised. This to me indicates the direction of ketosis being the backup system instead of the norm but I am not trained on the subject and definitely welcome being educated further. Note that this doesn't effect my opinion of fat as a great energy source. I personaly eat a relatively low carb (not keto), high-ish fat, high-ish protein, moderate carb diet. I'm also very active and this seems to work for me so far.
- overgard 8y ago
  I'm dubious of the claim that ketosis is a "backup" system. If you think about primitive man, they probably wouldn't have had three regular meals a day. Lots of feast and famine. I think people need to let go of the idea that ketosis is some sort of "special" state. It's just a metabolic state that's been suppressed by modern eating habits. Three meals a day and snacking is a cultural invention; not a biological necessity. A lot of athletes prefer to exercise in a ketogenic state. I know personally I'm able to run farther if I've spent the day fasting than if I had a big meal at lunch. (I don't have the same initial burst, but I don't hit a wall either) (Not to mention that digestion is a very expensive process) I think what's more unnatural is that modern eating habits are designed around blocking any sort of ketogenic state, which is where the easiest weight loss comes from. (Also, I need to lookup a reference for this, but I think I remember reading that fat burns a bit "cleaner" than sugars. Less free radicals I think? Something like that) [For people unclear what I'm talking about with ketosis: basically, your body burns glucose first for energy. Then when there isn't sufficient glucose, it starts burning fat. The burning of fat for energy is what's known as ketosis. (I know I'm probably vastly oversimplifying). The thing about fat burning is it only kicks in at a significant level when glucose is depleted though. So if you're exercising while eating a chocolate bar and drinking a gatorade... well the exercise is good! But you won't lose weight)
nradov 8y ago
The endurance sports community relies heavily on carbs, to the extent of often consuming sugar supplements during races and longer training sessions. Sure there are some endurance athletes who follow low-carb or even ketogenic diets, but they generally aren't able to compete at elite levels due to lower metabolic efficiency.
zackmorris 8y ago
I just want to second what you said. I started bodybuilding around 2000 and an old-school way to manage your insulin response is to separate your protein, fat and carbs into individual meals (and especially eat a high protein, high carb meal after working out). That may have been a bit of a fad though. The single most important rule that I know of is to never mix an animal protein meal and sugar, because that creates triglycerides which harden your blood vessels. This single rule is why fast food is so bad. Cheeseburgers are fine, but add fries and a pop and you just blew it. As I've gotten older, I've noticed that my need for carbs has diminished greatly. As a teenager, I frequently ate a bag of gummy worms and a 2 liter bottle of pop on weekends. That changed to a case of beer in college. Either of those sound untenable today though. The single easiest bit of advice I could give someone to lose fat is to stop eating all white fluffies and all sugar. So eat peas, salads etc with each meal instead of corn/bread/potatoes. Then pump iron at least 3 times a week so your body is in a constant rebuilding mode. You don't really need to watch your fat intake like they recommended 20 years ago either. Always opt for natural fats like avocado, peanut or almond butter and regular butter because you need those to rebuild your connective tissue. The big secret that nobody ever tells young people is that bodybuilding is all about eating/exercising in ways that elevate your hormones, then strengthening your connective tissue. If you do those things, then muscle and endurance come automatically. If you don't do them, you'll always be emaciated and will eventually get injured.
noarchy 8y ago
>The sports community (especially bodybuilding) knows that for decades. While true, I would't say that everything bodybuilders are doing is worth following. Many pros do things that are extremely unhealthy. It isn't just the abuse of anabolics, but also insulin - which is relevant to what we're discussing here. There are bodybuilders with type 2 diabetes due to their unhealthy habits while trying to get bigger.

ryanwaggoner 8y ago

Bodybuilders eat plenty of carbs.

sfotm 8y ago
Not sure why this is being downvoted, bodybuilders do eat carbs - they just time them appropriately. If you're about to work out, carbohydrates will help you get through it. On the other hand, if you're going to be sedentary for a while, or you're really trying to prioritize fat loss, you probably wouldn't eat as many carbs. Of course, Keto is a thing, but I haven't heard many stories of bodybuilders that actually target the keto-state. It's about getting the right amount of carbohydrates (hint: not as much as most people eat).
- brandonmenc 8y ago
  If by "time them appropriately" you mean "constantly all day long", then yeah. Unless they're prepping for a contest, which is not what they spend the majority of their time doing.
razakel 8y ago
No they don't. A bodybuilding diet is mostly protein, then certain fats, then starchy carbs at the right time (breakfast and post-workout).
- have_faith 8y ago
  > A bodybuilding diet is mostly protein Bodybuilders typically consume about ~30% protein. Where did you get the idea that it is mostly protein? Not to say that there aren't outliers obviously.
- ryanwaggoner 8y ago
  Umm, no. If you're eating 1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight (which is on the high end) and you weigh 200 pounds, that's about 1200 calories from protein, out of diet that's likely 3000 - 3500 calories. A common recommendation I see is for about 20-25% to come from fat, and the remaining from carbs, preferably complex carbs.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- brandonmenc 8y ago
  https://renaissanceperiodization.com/case-high-carb-massing https://renaissanceperiodization.com/case-high-carb-massing Just about every bodybuilder slams carbs, all day long.
barrow-rider 8y ago
Yeah brown rice is fairly popular. Chicken breast + broc + brown rice... for every meal. Oh and oatmeal.

i_cant_speel 8y ago

Where is the connection you're making between carbs being unnecessary and bodybuilders coming from?

emersonrsantos 8y ago
Bodybuilders use carbs restrictions (keto, intermittent, kind - complex vs simple carbs) to regulate muscle mass and fat, insulin and GH sensitivity, water retention mediated by glycogen, etc...
- i_cant_speel 8y ago
  Leading up to a competition and getting into single digit BF%, yes. But throughout most of the year they are generally consuming a good amount of carbs. I don't think using bodybuilders as an example translates well to good habits for the general population.
jlawson 8y ago
Traditional diets include lots of carbs. Bodybuilders realized early that protein is good for muscle growth. So they started eating tons of protein, and reducing other macronutrients. They realized after a while that carbs can actually be cut out totally and indefinitely (which is not true of protein and fat). They discovered this because nobody else had a reason to try to eat such a strange, protein-focused diet. At least in modern societies. Of course the Inuit and other far-north peoples have known forever that one can live healthily off essentially nothing but meat.
- bluGill 8y ago
  Inuit and other far north people will eat vegetables by preference when they can get them. Sure you can survive on none, I will contend that to thrive you need a balance. Note than balance does not mean soda is the bulk of your calories (that should be a straw man, but I see many people who drink that much soda).

have_faith 8y ago

It's only non-essential because your body has backup mechanisms for when carbs aren't available, ketosis for instance. That doesn't mean it's an ideal state to be in constantly.

GordonS 8y ago
That's an odd way to look at it - given we need fat and protein, I'd rather think that carbs were the 'backup' mechanism.
- have_faith 8y ago
  My subjective opinions on the matter: Ketosis only kicks in when carbs are sufficiently low, ketosis is required because protein as an energy source cannot pass the blood brain barrier and so needs to be converted to ketones before it can be utilised. This to me indicates the direction of ketosis being the backup system instead of the norm but I am not trained on the subject and definitely welcome being educated further. Note that this doesn't effect my opinion of fat as a great energy source. I personaly eat a relatively low carb (not keto), high-ish fat, high-ish protein, moderate carb diet. I'm also very active and this seems to work for me so far.
overgard 8y ago
I'm dubious of the claim that ketosis is a "backup" system. If you think about primitive man, they probably wouldn't have had three regular meals a day. Lots of feast and famine. I think people need to let go of the idea that ketosis is some sort of "special" state. It's just a metabolic state that's been suppressed by modern eating habits. Three meals a day and snacking is a cultural invention; not a biological necessity. A lot of athletes prefer to exercise in a ketogenic state. I know personally I'm able to run farther if I've spent the day fasting than if I had a big meal at lunch. (I don't have the same initial burst, but I don't hit a wall either) (Not to mention that digestion is a very expensive process) I think what's more unnatural is that modern eating habits are designed around blocking any sort of ketogenic state, which is where the easiest weight loss comes from. (Also, I need to lookup a reference for this, but I think I remember reading that fat burns a bit "cleaner" than sugars. Less free radicals I think? Something like that) [For people unclear what I'm talking about with ketosis: basically, your body burns glucose first for energy. Then when there isn't sufficient glucose, it starts burning fat. The burning of fat for energy is what's known as ketosis. (I know I'm probably vastly oversimplifying). The thing about fat burning is it only kicks in at a significant level when glucose is depleted though. So if you're exercising while eating a chocolate bar and drinking a gatorade... well the exercise is good! But you won't lose weight)

nradov 8y ago

The endurance sports community relies heavily on carbs, to the extent of often consuming sugar supplements during races and longer training sessions. Sure there are some endurance athletes who follow low-carb or even ketogenic diets, but they generally aren't able to compete at elite levels due to lower metabolic efficiency.

zackmorris 8y ago

I just want to second what you said. I started bodybuilding around 2000 and an old-school way to manage your insulin response is to separate your protein, fat and carbs into individual meals (and especially eat a high protein, high carb meal after working out). That may have been a bit of a fad though. The single most important rule that I know of is to never mix an animal protein meal and sugar, because that creates triglycerides which harden your blood vessels. This single rule is why fast food is so bad. Cheeseburgers are fine, but add fries and a pop and you just blew it. As I've gotten older, I've noticed that my need for carbs has diminished greatly. As a teenager, I frequently ate a bag of gummy worms and a 2 liter bottle of pop on weekends. That changed to a case of beer in college. Either of those sound untenable today though. The single easiest bit of advice I could give someone to lose fat is to stop eating all white fluffies and all sugar. So eat peas, salads etc with each meal instead of corn/bread/potatoes. Then pump iron at least 3 times a week so your body is in a constant rebuilding mode. You don't really need to watch your fat intake like they recommended 20 years ago either. Always opt for natural fats like avocado, peanut or almond butter and regular butter because you need those to rebuild your connective tissue. The big secret that nobody ever tells young people is that bodybuilding is all about eating/exercising in ways that elevate your hormones, then strengthening your connective tissue. If you do those things, then muscle and endurance come automatically. If you don't do them, you'll always be emaciated and will eventually get injured.

noarchy 8y ago

>The sports community (especially bodybuilding) knows that for decades. While true, I would't say that everything bodybuilders are doing is worth following. Many pros do things that are extremely unhealthy. It isn't just the abuse of anabolics, but also insulin - which is relevant to what we're discussing here. There are bodybuilders with type 2 diabetes due to their unhealthy habits while trying to get bigger.