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Ohio will accept Bitcoin for corporate tax payments via Bitpay

106 points by kaboro 8y ago

emerongi 8y ago
Well yes, I'd very much like a delivery of headaches. We here at Ohio have been craving those for a while now!
hollerith 8y ago
from the article: <<The brain child of current Ohio state treasurer, Josh Mandel, the bitcoin program is intended to be a signal of the state’s broader ambitions to remake itself in a more tech-friendly image.>>
- coldtea 8y ago
  So, basically "We hear this BitCoin thing is in fashion. Let's add some of that". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-q4bEULG64 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-q4bEULG64
onetimemanytime 8y ago
I guess if they convert in real time it doesn't matter, it's just a gimmick, they get dollars. Let Ohio accept Bitcoin and keep them...they wont.
- akerl_ 8y ago
  In what way is it a gimmick? Ohio seems to be taking the stance that folks may want to pay in bitcoin, so they're offering that as a payment option. Whether they take the bitcoin and convert it into something else doesn't seem to impact that.
  - _asummers 8y ago
    Why not accept gold too then? Some people may want to pay their taxes in gold. I'm curious how much money was spent to get this system in place, and what the plan is when the bitcoins are then in the Ohio treasury, especially if the price continues to drop on BTC.
    - akerl_ 8y ago
      This plan doesn't cause Ohio to hold any bitcoins in their treasury: they're reconciling them for USD at time-of-payment via BitPay. And sure, they could support paying in all kinds of things. But Bitcoin has a decent wave of popularity among humans, so they're taking a swing at supporting it, similarly to how a variety of online retailers have. It seems like a weird case to see them add support for a popular method of payment and respond "but why not gold".
      - _asummers 8y ago
        The point I was making (though I didn't really say) was not that gold should be used, but that someone can simply convert their own BTC via the normal means to USD and then pay with that, same as you could sell your gold. Why even offer this service? Are there REALLY enough people interested in paying their taxes in BTC that this service is in any way worth providing?
        dragonwriter 8y ago
        > Why even offer this service? As stated in the article, it's one of several symbolic gestures being made in an effort to market the state as “tech friendly”.
        _asummers 8y ago
        How does this accomplish that though? What tech people are trying to pay their taxes in BTC? The best way to make your state more attractive to tech business is to improve schools and services that actually affect people, not offer bizarre programs like this. I very clearly have priors that I think this is absurd, so maybe I'm just not looking at things charitably. I just don't get who this is for, and I expect it to be underused when it comes tax time.
        freedomben 8y ago
        > someone can simply convert their own BTC via the normal means to USD and then pay with that, same as you could sell your gold I don't know if you've tried to sell gold, but it's a little bit more involved and difficult than exchanging BTC/USD
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  With the instability of Bitcoin prices it would be insane to keep them. If the Bitcoin price drops they would lose a ton of money and would have to get that back somehow.
pickdenis 8y ago
I hope they pawn that monopoly money for the real deal immediately after collection.
- grenoire 8y ago
  Accounting for crypto is already an unstandardised accounting and control nightmare. It'll be cashed out on point.
- freedomben 8y ago
  In your zeal to jump on the bandwagon and hate on something that I assume you don't understand (based on your analogy), you failed to read the article: > The state is working with the cryptocurrency payment startup BitPay to handle its payments, which will convert the bitcoin to dollars. Also, unless you know of a way to exchange "monopoly money" for "the real deal," (and please share if you do, because I have a pile of that just sitting in a game box and scattered around my house thanks to my kids) your analogy is flawed and inaccurate.
  - rvense 8y ago
    So basically this is letting BitPay tax your tax payments? What a marvelous idea.
    - freedomben 8y ago
      Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but I don't recall seeing anywhere that there won't be a fee for paying in bitcoin. They already allow credit cards (which take a cut too) and simply pass along the fee. I see no reason they wouldn't do the same thing with any fee that BitPay adds.
- dang 8y ago
  Please don't post unsubstantive comments here.
IAmLiterallyAB 8y ago
Oh yes, this won't backfire in any way.
narrator 8y ago
So when they collect that bitcoin do you have to pay capital gains tax on the amount you paid then this year on next year's taxes? If you pay the capital gains tax next year in bitcoin, do you have to pay the capital gains tax on that payment the year after that, etc.?
- akerl_ 8y ago
  I'd assume yes, just the same as if you sold bitcoin for USD yourself in order to pay the taxes. Ohio isn't making a claim that they're changing their official currency to Bitcoin, any more than a site that adds Paypal support or Apple Pay support is claiming that their new currency is AppleBucks.
  - baddox 8y ago
    For thoroughness, it’s also just the same as if you sold anything else that’s subject to capital gains tax in order to pay your taxes, which I suspect is not a rare occurrence.
sova 8y ago
As someone who has tried to start some tech startups in Ohio I can say that this is the least relevant feature I'd like to see.
- freedomben 8y ago
  What feature(s) would you like to see?
  - sova 8y ago
    How about: the ability to rent at little or no cost unused offices, Access to funding for "moonshot" projects, Have the state declare certain groups certified startups for 1-5 years to help them get momentum and exposure. There are many such simple things that could be done to help and create the network of success they want to draw in via tech
klenwell 8y ago
Among the online services I would like to see my state add, enhance, or simply fix, I do not prioritize accepting bitcoin for tax payments very high in the backlog.
- repomies6999 8y ago
  It is quite low effort, and probably quite a good value.
  - otras 8y ago
    Would you be willing to expand on why you think it's probably quite a good value?
    - freedomben 8y ago
      Not GP, but if you are a person/business that has a lot of BTC, it's not hard to see the value here. When Dish Network added BTC payment as an option, it was really nice for me. For someone who doesn't do the bitcoins, it was probably just clutter on the website. It's all perspective.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - tptacek 8y ago
        Exactly what is Bitcoin accomplishing in this scenario? Ohio won't actually accept them; rather, it contracts with a third party that immediately exchanges them for USD, which is what Ohio actually accepts. Ohio maintains no BTC inventory nor any exposure to Bitcoin. Not only that, but this apparently binds taxpayers to Bitpay's exchange rate. What is this doing that you couldn't accomplish by simply selling BTC and remitting in cash?
        sova 8y ago
        PR
branchless 8y ago
In usd equivalent, therefore usd still has enduring value, not Bitcoin
jordache 8y ago
yeah only a state like ohio would jump on the blockchain bandwagon in such a fashion... probably hired some consultants to validate this "innovative" move.
AndrewKemendo 8y ago
This is probably the most significant thing to happen in blockchain history and is philosophically in line with the stated original claims of the Bitcoin whitepaper from Satoshi. That means Ohio is putting the USD in competition with cryptocurrency for the primary thing the USD is used for: Paying Taxes. Federally that's going to remain USD of course, so it's not an existential threat for the Fed, but if enough states move to crypto as an option for tax payments the Treasury/Fed is going to have to make some major moves to prevent it spreading.
- freedomben 8y ago
  I really want what you said to be true, tho I'm a little more skeptical than you. I don't see this as competition at all, since it will be immediately exchanged for USD, and I would assume the tax bill will be issued in USD and the equivalent BTC amount will be calculated at payment time. I'm also pessimistic that this will be used. The new taxes on cryptos that the feds put in place have done a great job at icing speculation and making people's lives a living hell should they engage in crypto-trading (a pretty darn good disincentive). I think the federal government is well on its way to killing crypto currencies already.
  - AndrewKemendo 8y ago
    One of the options I see as possible is that the USGov will effectively "acquire" crypto of it gets used enough. They would do this by mandating parity with the USD so that it's simply another instrument of the USD. Would take a lot of legislation, and work but it's possible to do and preferable to allowing a competitive currency inside the states.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > That means Ohio is putting the USD in competition with cryptocurrency for the primary thing the USD is used for: Paying Taxes. That's not the primary thing the USD is used for. Paying US federal and some other taxes is one of several things that the US dollar is the sole thing used for, but that is very different than being the primary thing it is used for. But unless they are denominating tax debts in Bitcoin, it's not meaningfully different than exchanging bitcoins for dollars to pay taxes, just a little more convenient.
akerl_ 8y ago
It seems pretty weird to watch the collective comment pool rage against this change. Seems to fall largely into a couple groups: "people who think it's a waste of time", and "people who are upset that Ohio's official currency is still USD". Aren't there more interesting responses possible for this move than outrage? Right now this seems limited to businesses, I'm curious why specifically target them instead of all taxes (given that the backend infra seems like it would be the same for both). How does the pricing work given volatility (is there potential that you'll pay taxes and the price will shift such that you owe more / get a refund after the fact)?
- alextheparrot 8y ago
  The pricing part is explained in the FAQ, they are using a third-party so the state of Ohio never sees crypto. I assume that the exchange rate has the volatility risk baked into the conversion price, so the cost is amortized across all payers.
  - akerl_ 8y ago
    The fact that conversion is done at time-of-payment is clear, yes. But as you say, you're assuming that shifts in price are being factored in (the implication seems to be "by BitPay"). I'm curious if that's actually the case.
habosa 8y ago
This is interesting because now you could really leave the dollar while living in America. After all you can live your whole life in BTC but still need to come up with USD in April to pay taxes. Probably too late though, I think true BTC believers are few and far between these days.
- wavefunction 8y ago
  The US Federal Government doesn't accept BTC.
paul7986 8y ago
Is someone in the Ohio government losing or lost a ton on their BitCoin investment as it's tanking something serious now? This is a bit strange especially with Bitcoin tanking.
- duskwuff 8y ago
  This move was probably planned about a year ago, back when Bitcoin was over $10k. The wheels of government turn slowly, and now that they've turned, you're right that it looks pretty strange to announce this right as the market is crashing.
  - freedomben 8y ago
    Exactly. I would also add "big business" to this too. I bet we see a few different BTC products/services start to get announced that were probably put in motion this time last year.
40acres 8y ago
The price of Bitcoin has been shown to be influenced by a small number of holders, I don't understand why any government would allow for services to be paid with such a volatile "currency"
- dgobaud 8y ago
  Ohio gets USD - never actually touches Bitcoin.
mancerayder 8y ago
What happens to Ohio's treasury if BTC's value halves and stays in a bear market for two years? Or worse, never recovers?
- dgobaud 8y ago
  Ohio is not receiving Bitcoin. They are locking in the USD value at time of payment and get that.
- freedomben 8y ago
  Please read the article. They won't be holding BTC. They are using BitPay (which exchanges it immediately for USD).
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > What happens to Ohio's treasury if BTC's value halves and stays in a bear market for two years Nothing, because like most other traditional economy outlets “accepting” Bitcoin, they are just contracting with a processor that actually accepts the Bitcoin and pays the State in dollars.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- nabla9 8y ago
  Bitcoin is used just as a payment system. The state receives USD from anyone who handles the payment.
TekMol 8y ago
The state is working with the cryptocurrency payment startup BitPay to handle its payments, which will convert the bitcoin to dollars. Not sure if this really counts as 'accepting Bitcoin for tax payments'. You surely can pay in anything via a middleman, as long as the middleman sends dollars to the state?
- 27182818284 8y ago
  That's a good point, and should be mentioned, but I think it is also important to remember that businesses "accept Visa for payments" via a middleman (e.g, Braintree or Stripe) and that is still considered the same as "accepting Visa" as far as the general public and shop owners are concerned.
  - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
    > and that is still considered the same as "accepting Visa" as far as the general public and shop owners are concerned Which is itself accepting a payment network’s promises to deliver bank deposits to you which are, themselves, a promise by a bank to redeem to you electronic or physical dollars. Ohio is replacing the Visa layer with a Bitcoin layer; all else is the same.
firebacon 8y ago
Seems like fake news. The state of ohio will not accept bitcoins -- they just "allow" you to pay your taxes using bitpay, which is a service that will convert your bitcoin to USD on the fly. How is this any different to what you could always have done, i.e. selling bitcoins for USD first and then paying your taxes with the USD?
- AnabeeKnox 8y ago
  Sorry your comment has been downvoted to grey. Indeed, the headline is nonsense, payment of tax will continue to be in USD. This is a very silly headline and it's embarrassing seeing it being upvoted on HackerNews.
  - freedomben 8y ago
    I would guess it's the "fake news" part that is triggering the downs. Using that phrase is a sure fire way to piss off a subset of all side, but especially people who support/like what the article is saying.
    - avip 8y ago
      I know it's considered low-quality to discuss voting here, but something is becoming extremely shady with the voting on this forum. Boo be the share of all downvoters too lazy to express their resent in writing and reasoning. Praise be for otterley who bothered to explain it to OP and did his tiny share in building a better world. And wtf for those who downvoted his comment (I'm especially baffled by that one)
- otterley 8y ago
  Technical inaccuracies in reporting do not make an article "fake news." Fake news is the intentional publication of stories purporting to be news that have no factual basis for the purpose of misleading the public.
  - firebacon 8y ago
batrat 8y ago
Not from US, but I see this trend in my country also. It's nice to see governments to embrace technology but, it will be nice to start from the ground up and what I would like to see is: modern websites, one mobile app for everything, transparency of the money they spend, multiple payment options for taxes and transportation, simple online forms, digital signatures, etc. They take a step, then skip 100, do another one and then: "oh we are done here, we embraced technology"
haidut 8y ago
Am I the only one who sees this as a move on Ohio's part to get its residents to "accidentally" disclose their Bitcoin assets by making a payment from their "hidden" stash invested in Bitcoins? You pay your taxes from your Bitcoin wallet? Oh how nice! Now here is your state subpoena to disclose the FULL value of your (possibly non-US or offline) Bitcoin wallet. I have a friend who lives in Portland (Maine) and used his BTC to pay some city fine. A month later got a formal order from the state's revenue collection service to file a non-US asset disclosure form and report ALL of his BTC in possession. And mind you, he is NOT a US citizen or even permanent resident. He is in the US on a tourist visa. A US citizen/resident could probably face criminal charges after disclosing he/she has Bitcoin stash they failed to previously report.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > he is NOT a US citizen or even permanent resident Not paying taxes on a publicly-ledgered asset with a well-accepted monetary value that you then disclose to a government is the height of stupidity. If your friend’s home country has any tax treaties with the United States, I’d encourage him to get his paperwork in order with them.
  - haidut 8y ago
    As far as I know, he owes almost no taxes. He is a resident of Monaco and it has no taxes on its residents AFAIK. The state of Maine actually invoked FATCA compliance as a legal backing for filing the form. I find that strange as FATCA is a federal law and if anybody would be enforcing it would be the IRS, but of course he is not going to argue with Main so he just ignored the form and left a month later. Probably not very smart on his part for ignoring it but he said there is no way he going to report all of his BTC assets to Uncle Sam simply for being a tourist visitor. However, for a US citizen/resident it could very well end up pretty badly as reporting assets that had not been taxed so far will get you state and federal tax (with interest) AND probably some fines. Not reporting it is even worse because the state (and IRS) now knows you have a BTC wallet and will assume you are hiding assets in it, which is both a state and federal felony. Anyways, it would be interesting to watch how this plays out.
- 8y ago
thefounder 8y ago
Why is bitcoin promoted so much for payments instead of stable coins(i.e USDT)?
Zarath 8y ago
So do I have to pay taxes for the taxes I just paid on my Bitcoin?
- greenyoda 8y ago
  If you converted Bitcoin to cash to pay your taxes (which is how Ohio's service actually works) and that resulted in a capital gain (you originally paid less for that Bitcoin than it's worth today), then you'd need to pay taxes on that capital gain. This is no different than selling any other asset (stocks, a house, etc.) to get cash to pay your taxes.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
kurttt 8y ago
howdoyoudofellowkids.gif
jokoon 8y ago
Sounds like a huge opportunity for hackers.
- freedomben 8y ago
  What kind of opportunities? To pay their taxes with stolen Bitcoins? It wouldn't be hard to trace it back to them :-)

106 points by kaboro 8y ago

Well yes, I'd very much like a delivery of headaches. We here at Ohio have been craving those for a while now!

from the article: <<The brain child of current Ohio state treasurer, Josh Mandel, the bitcoin program is intended to be a signal of the state’s broader ambitions to remake itself in a more tech-friendly image.>>

coldtea 8y ago
So, basically "We hear this BitCoin thing is in fashion. Let's add some of that". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-q4bEULG64 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-q4bEULG64

onetimemanytime 8y ago

I guess if they convert in real time it doesn't matter, it's just a gimmick, they get dollars. Let Ohio accept Bitcoin and keep them...they wont.

akerl_ 8y ago
In what way is it a gimmick? Ohio seems to be taking the stance that folks may want to pay in bitcoin, so they're offering that as a payment option. Whether they take the bitcoin and convert it into something else doesn't seem to impact that.
- _asummers 8y ago
  Why not accept gold too then? Some people may want to pay their taxes in gold. I'm curious how much money was spent to get this system in place, and what the plan is when the bitcoins are then in the Ohio treasury, especially if the price continues to drop on BTC.
  - akerl_ 8y ago
    This plan doesn't cause Ohio to hold any bitcoins in their treasury: they're reconciling them for USD at time-of-payment via BitPay. And sure, they could support paying in all kinds of things. But Bitcoin has a decent wave of popularity among humans, so they're taking a swing at supporting it, similarly to how a variety of online retailers have. It seems like a weird case to see them add support for a popular method of payment and respond "but why not gold".
    - _asummers 8y ago
      The point I was making (though I didn't really say) was not that gold should be used, but that someone can simply convert their own BTC via the normal means to USD and then pay with that, same as you could sell your gold. Why even offer this service? Are there REALLY enough people interested in paying their taxes in BTC that this service is in any way worth providing?
      - dragonwriter 8y ago
        > Why even offer this service? As stated in the article, it's one of several symbolic gestures being made in an effort to market the state as “tech friendly”.
        _asummers 8y ago
        How does this accomplish that though? What tech people are trying to pay their taxes in BTC? The best way to make your state more attractive to tech business is to improve schools and services that actually affect people, not offer bizarre programs like this. I very clearly have priors that I think this is absurd, so maybe I'm just not looking at things charitably. I just don't get who this is for, and I expect it to be underused when it comes tax time.
      - freedomben 8y ago
        > someone can simply convert their own BTC via the normal means to USD and then pay with that, same as you could sell your gold I don't know if you've tried to sell gold, but it's a little bit more involved and difficult than exchanging BTC/USD
maxxxxx 8y ago
With the instability of Bitcoin prices it would be insane to keep them. If the Bitcoin price drops they would lose a ton of money and would have to get that back somehow.

pickdenis 8y ago

I hope they pawn that monopoly money for the real deal immediately after collection.

grenoire 8y ago
Accounting for crypto is already an unstandardised accounting and control nightmare. It'll be cashed out on point.
freedomben 8y ago
In your zeal to jump on the bandwagon and hate on something that I assume you don't understand (based on your analogy), you failed to read the article: > The state is working with the cryptocurrency payment startup BitPay to handle its payments, which will convert the bitcoin to dollars. Also, unless you know of a way to exchange "monopoly money" for "the real deal," (and please share if you do, because I have a pile of that just sitting in a game box and scattered around my house thanks to my kids) your analogy is flawed and inaccurate.
- rvense 8y ago
  So basically this is letting BitPay tax your tax payments? What a marvelous idea.
  - freedomben 8y ago
    Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but I don't recall seeing anywhere that there won't be a fee for paying in bitcoin. They already allow credit cards (which take a cut too) and simply pass along the fee. I see no reason they wouldn't do the same thing with any fee that BitPay adds.
dang 8y ago
Please don't post unsubstantive comments here.

IAmLiterallyAB 8y ago

Oh yes, this won't backfire in any way.

narrator 8y ago

So when they collect that bitcoin do you have to pay capital gains tax on the amount you paid then this year on next year's taxes? If you pay the capital gains tax next year in bitcoin, do you have to pay the capital gains tax on that payment the year after that, etc.?

akerl_ 8y ago
I'd assume yes, just the same as if you sold bitcoin for USD yourself in order to pay the taxes. Ohio isn't making a claim that they're changing their official currency to Bitcoin, any more than a site that adds Paypal support or Apple Pay support is claiming that their new currency is AppleBucks.
- baddox 8y ago
  For thoroughness, it’s also just the same as if you sold anything else that’s subject to capital gains tax in order to pay your taxes, which I suspect is not a rare occurrence.

sova 8y ago

As someone who has tried to start some tech startups in Ohio I can say that this is the least relevant feature I'd like to see.

freedomben 8y ago
What feature(s) would you like to see?
- sova 8y ago
  How about: the ability to rent at little or no cost unused offices, Access to funding for "moonshot" projects, Have the state declare certain groups certified startups for 1-5 years to help them get momentum and exposure. There are many such simple things that could be done to help and create the network of success they want to draw in via tech

klenwell 8y ago

Among the online services I would like to see my state add, enhance, or simply fix, I do not prioritize accepting bitcoin for tax payments very high in the backlog.

repomies6999 8y ago
It is quite low effort, and probably quite a good value.
- otras 8y ago
  Would you be willing to expand on why you think it's probably quite a good value?
  - freedomben 8y ago
    Not GP, but if you are a person/business that has a lot of BTC, it's not hard to see the value here. When Dish Network added BTC payment as an option, it was really nice for me. For someone who doesn't do the bitcoins, it was probably just clutter on the website. It's all perspective.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - tptacek 8y ago
      Exactly what is Bitcoin accomplishing in this scenario? Ohio won't actually accept them; rather, it contracts with a third party that immediately exchanges them for USD, which is what Ohio actually accepts. Ohio maintains no BTC inventory nor any exposure to Bitcoin. Not only that, but this apparently binds taxpayers to Bitpay's exchange rate. What is this doing that you couldn't accomplish by simply selling BTC and remitting in cash?
      - sova 8y ago
        PR

branchless 8y ago

In usd equivalent, therefore usd still has enduring value, not Bitcoin

jordache 8y ago

yeah only a state like ohio would jump on the blockchain bandwagon in such a fashion... probably hired some consultants to validate this "innovative" move.

AndrewKemendo 8y ago

This is probably the most significant thing to happen in blockchain history and is philosophically in line with the stated original claims of the Bitcoin whitepaper from Satoshi. That means Ohio is putting the USD in competition with cryptocurrency for the primary thing the USD is used for: Paying Taxes. Federally that's going to remain USD of course, so it's not an existential threat for the Fed, but if enough states move to crypto as an option for tax payments the Treasury/Fed is going to have to make some major moves to prevent it spreading.

freedomben 8y ago
I really want what you said to be true, tho I'm a little more skeptical than you. I don't see this as competition at all, since it will be immediately exchanged for USD, and I would assume the tax bill will be issued in USD and the equivalent BTC amount will be calculated at payment time. I'm also pessimistic that this will be used. The new taxes on cryptos that the feds put in place have done a great job at icing speculation and making people's lives a living hell should they engage in crypto-trading (a pretty darn good disincentive). I think the federal government is well on its way to killing crypto currencies already.
- AndrewKemendo 8y ago
  One of the options I see as possible is that the USGov will effectively "acquire" crypto of it gets used enough. They would do this by mandating parity with the USD so that it's simply another instrument of the USD. Would take a lot of legislation, and work but it's possible to do and preferable to allowing a competitive currency inside the states.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> That means Ohio is putting the USD in competition with cryptocurrency for the primary thing the USD is used for: Paying Taxes. That's not the primary thing the USD is used for. Paying US federal and some other taxes is one of several things that the US dollar is the sole thing used for, but that is very different than being the primary thing it is used for. But unless they are denominating tax debts in Bitcoin, it's not meaningfully different than exchanging bitcoins for dollars to pay taxes, just a little more convenient.

akerl_ 8y ago

It seems pretty weird to watch the collective comment pool rage against this change. Seems to fall largely into a couple groups: "people who think it's a waste of time", and "people who are upset that Ohio's official currency is still USD". Aren't there more interesting responses possible for this move than outrage? Right now this seems limited to businesses, I'm curious why specifically target them instead of all taxes (given that the backend infra seems like it would be the same for both). How does the pricing work given volatility (is there potential that you'll pay taxes and the price will shift such that you owe more / get a refund after the fact)?

alextheparrot 8y ago
The pricing part is explained in the FAQ, they are using a third-party so the state of Ohio never sees crypto. I assume that the exchange rate has the volatility risk baked into the conversion price, so the cost is amortized across all payers.
- akerl_ 8y ago
  The fact that conversion is done at time-of-payment is clear, yes. But as you say, you're assuming that shifts in price are being factored in (the implication seems to be "by BitPay"). I'm curious if that's actually the case.

habosa 8y ago

This is interesting because now you could really leave the dollar while living in America. After all you can live your whole life in BTC but still need to come up with USD in April to pay taxes. Probably too late though, I think true BTC believers are few and far between these days.

wavefunction 8y ago
The US Federal Government doesn't accept BTC.

paul7986 8y ago

Is someone in the Ohio government losing or lost a ton on their BitCoin investment as it's tanking something serious now? This is a bit strange especially with Bitcoin tanking.

duskwuff 8y ago
This move was probably planned about a year ago, back when Bitcoin was over $10k. The wheels of government turn slowly, and now that they've turned, you're right that it looks pretty strange to announce this right as the market is crashing.
- freedomben 8y ago
  Exactly. I would also add "big business" to this too. I bet we see a few different BTC products/services start to get announced that were probably put in motion this time last year.

40acres 8y ago

The price of Bitcoin has been shown to be influenced by a small number of holders, I don't understand why any government would allow for services to be paid with such a volatile "currency"

dgobaud 8y ago
Ohio gets USD - never actually touches Bitcoin.

mancerayder 8y ago

What happens to Ohio's treasury if BTC's value halves and stays in a bear market for two years? Or worse, never recovers?

dgobaud 8y ago
Ohio is not receiving Bitcoin. They are locking in the USD value at time of payment and get that.
freedomben 8y ago
Please read the article. They won't be holding BTC. They are using BitPay (which exchanges it immediately for USD).
dragonwriter 8y ago
> What happens to Ohio's treasury if BTC's value halves and stays in a bear market for two years Nothing, because like most other traditional economy outlets “accepting” Bitcoin, they are just contracting with a processor that actually accepts the Bitcoin and pays the State in dollars.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
nabla9 8y ago
Bitcoin is used just as a payment system. The state receives USD from anyone who handles the payment.

TekMol 8y ago

The state is working with the cryptocurrency payment startup BitPay to handle its payments, which will convert the bitcoin to dollars. Not sure if this really counts as 'accepting Bitcoin for tax payments'. You surely can pay in anything via a middleman, as long as the middleman sends dollars to the state?

27182818284 8y ago
That's a good point, and should be mentioned, but I think it is also important to remember that businesses "accept Visa for payments" via a middleman (e.g, Braintree or Stripe) and that is still considered the same as "accepting Visa" as far as the general public and shop owners are concerned.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > and that is still considered the same as "accepting Visa" as far as the general public and shop owners are concerned Which is itself accepting a payment network’s promises to deliver bank deposits to you which are, themselves, a promise by a bank to redeem to you electronic or physical dollars. Ohio is replacing the Visa layer with a Bitcoin layer; all else is the same.

firebacon 8y ago

Seems like fake news. The state of ohio will not accept bitcoins -- they just "allow" you to pay your taxes using bitpay, which is a service that will convert your bitcoin to USD on the fly. How is this any different to what you could always have done, i.e. selling bitcoins for USD first and then paying your taxes with the USD?

AnabeeKnox 8y ago
Sorry your comment has been downvoted to grey. Indeed, the headline is nonsense, payment of tax will continue to be in USD. This is a very silly headline and it's embarrassing seeing it being upvoted on HackerNews.
- freedomben 8y ago
  I would guess it's the "fake news" part that is triggering the downs. Using that phrase is a sure fire way to piss off a subset of all side, but especially people who support/like what the article is saying.
  - avip 8y ago
    I know it's considered low-quality to discuss voting here, but something is becoming extremely shady with the voting on this forum. Boo be the share of all downvoters too lazy to express their resent in writing and reasoning. Praise be for otterley who bothered to explain it to OP and did his tiny share in building a better world. And wtf for those who downvoted his comment (I'm especially baffled by that one)
otterley 8y ago
Technical inaccuracies in reporting do not make an article "fake news." Fake news is the intentional publication of stories purporting to be news that have no factual basis for the purpose of misleading the public.
- firebacon 8y ago

batrat 8y ago

Not from US, but I see this trend in my country also. It's nice to see governments to embrace technology but, it will be nice to start from the ground up and what I would like to see is: modern websites, one mobile app for everything, transparency of the money they spend, multiple payment options for taxes and transportation, simple online forms, digital signatures, etc. They take a step, then skip 100, do another one and then: "oh we are done here, we embraced technology"

haidut 8y ago

Am I the only one who sees this as a move on Ohio's part to get its residents to "accidentally" disclose their Bitcoin assets by making a payment from their "hidden" stash invested in Bitcoins? You pay your taxes from your Bitcoin wallet? Oh how nice! Now here is your state subpoena to disclose the FULL value of your (possibly non-US or offline) Bitcoin wallet. I have a friend who lives in Portland (Maine) and used his BTC to pay some city fine. A month later got a formal order from the state's revenue collection service to file a non-US asset disclosure form and report ALL of his BTC in possession. And mind you, he is NOT a US citizen or even permanent resident. He is in the US on a tourist visa. A US citizen/resident could probably face criminal charges after disclosing he/she has Bitcoin stash they failed to previously report.

JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> he is NOT a US citizen or even permanent resident Not paying taxes on a publicly-ledgered asset with a well-accepted monetary value that you then disclose to a government is the height of stupidity. If your friend’s home country has any tax treaties with the United States, I’d encourage him to get his paperwork in order with them.
- haidut 8y ago
  As far as I know, he owes almost no taxes. He is a resident of Monaco and it has no taxes on its residents AFAIK. The state of Maine actually invoked FATCA compliance as a legal backing for filing the form. I find that strange as FATCA is a federal law and if anybody would be enforcing it would be the IRS, but of course he is not going to argue with Main so he just ignored the form and left a month later. Probably not very smart on his part for ignoring it but he said there is no way he going to report all of his BTC assets to Uncle Sam simply for being a tourist visitor. However, for a US citizen/resident it could very well end up pretty badly as reporting assets that had not been taxed so far will get you state and federal tax (with interest) AND probably some fines. Not reporting it is even worse because the state (and IRS) now knows you have a BTC wallet and will assume you are hiding assets in it, which is both a state and federal felony. Anyways, it would be interesting to watch how this plays out.
8y ago

thefounder 8y ago

Why is bitcoin promoted so much for payments instead of stable coins(i.e USDT)?

Zarath 8y ago

So do I have to pay taxes for the taxes I just paid on my Bitcoin?

greenyoda 8y ago
If you converted Bitcoin to cash to pay your taxes (which is how Ohio's service actually works) and that resulted in a capital gain (you originally paid less for that Bitcoin than it's worth today), then you'd need to pay taxes on that capital gain. This is no different than selling any other asset (stocks, a house, etc.) to get cash to pay your taxes.

deleted 8y ago

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kurttt 8y ago

howdoyoudofellowkids.gif

jokoon 8y ago

Sounds like a huge opportunity for hackers.

freedomben 8y ago
What kind of opportunities? To pay their taxes with stolen Bitcoins? It wouldn't be hard to trace it back to them :-)