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They proved they have no conscience with the Chinese baby formula scandal[1]: putting melamine in baby formula to save a little money, knowing that doing so wou

They proved they have no conscience with the Chinese baby formula scandal[1]: putting melamine in baby formula to save a little money, knowing that doing so would be poisoning infant children. "A spokesman said the scale of the problem proved it was 'clearly not an isolated accident, [but] a large-scale intentional activity to deceive consumers for simple, basic, short-term profits.'" [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal

markdown 8y ago
Who is "they"? This is a nation of almost 1.4 billion people. There are more unarmed civilians (including children) murdered by US police every year than all deaths from the Chinese milk scandal combined. Would that make it reasonable to state that "All US citizens have proved they have no conscience"? In any case, the Chinese milk scandal pales in comparison to what Nestle did: https://www.businessinsider.com/nestles-infant-formula-scandal-2012-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/nestles-infant-formula-scand... Do you no longer buy Nestle?
- gpm 8y ago
  I don't understand the complaint in that article? It seems to basically be that: - Nestle made a baby formula - They marketed it heavily to poor people in the third world. - Poor people in the third world proceed to dilute the formula with more than the recommended amount of water to save money (and the article does not say that this was at Nestle's prompting), and as a result didn't feed their babies enough. Maybe less than ideal and somewhat scummy? Sure, most advertising is like that really. Worse than literally selling poisonous baby formula? I don't see it. But perhaps I misunderstand the accusation.
  - meds2010 8y ago
    the numbers are definitely worse. "millions" dead? that sounds pretty bad. Not sure how true that is. It certainly isn't clear. But the idea that a western corporation will do something like changing a product to save money, or not recalling a product knowing that someone out there will die... do you really need to be given examples of that?
    - darawk 8y ago
      Millions died because mother's diluted the formula, against the instructions of the company. How is that Nestle's fault?
      - markdown 8y ago
        Nestle marketed the formula heavily as a safe substitute for breast milk despite the fact they knew many Africans didn't have access to safe drinking water to make the formula, they sold it heavily discounted. Mothers bought it and used it so their own breast milk dried up. Then when they couldn't afford enough of it as the baby grew and needed more, they were forced to ration the formula. Millions died.
  - autoexec 8y ago
    I'd heard part of the problem was that Nestlé lied to mothers to make them think they needed it, gave them enough for free that their own breast-milk dried up making them dependent on formula to feed their child at which point many were stuck with an expense they couldn't actually afford leading to things like diluting the formula. Certainly not as bad as outright poisoning formula, but a shitty thing in general to poverty stricken areas who were more than capable of feeding their own babies for free before Nestlé took advantage of them to take what little those mothers had.
    - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
      But this is nowhere near the same thing as the Chinese baby milk melamine scandal, as well as more localized fake baby milk powder scandals. In fact, people go to HK to buy so much baby milk powder that they had prevent export. We are comparing a non defective product that couldn’t be used effectively by a certain populations to outright fraud.
      - meds2010 8y ago
        I can see a product designer make the case that if millions are dying, then the product is defective in some way. The rules are different in two different places, but I can see how someone thinks these two cases are similar, both are about corporate greed, and the victims are just statistics. Is it murder if there is something wrong with the product, and you don't pull it? Many people out there believe that it is: https://www.odwyerpr.com/story/public/5379/2015-09-18/gm-pays-900m-walks-away-from-fraud-murder.html https://www.odwyerpr.com/story/public/5379/2015-09-18/gm-pay...
        seanmcdirmid 8y ago
        Well, one is against the law and the other is not and, in fact, couldn’t be without serious implications to personal freedom. One messes with the truthfulness of the information an informed consumer has available, the other simply relies on an uninformed consumer. These are not similar at all. As an analogy, take sugary snacks. Say a snack has lots of sugar but the company claims it is sugar free anyways. In another case, a snack is truthful about its sugar content but the consumer lacks the education (or willpower) to care. Aren’t these completely different problems?
- NotANaN 8y ago
  > Who is "they"? From the parent comment: "Chinese vendors and mfgs"
- jasonbarrah 8y ago
  This is just one example. There is also fentanyl, knock off prescription medication, and I've even gotten fake sex toys from China. The point is that stealing, lying, and poisoning Americans is part of Chinese culture. And what's worse is it appears that their state department is egging them on. So sure, there are Americans that do greedy things and have externalities. The problem is, it's China's stated national policy.
  - markdown 8y ago
    Cutting corners to make items cheaper and make more money without govt regulation is capitalism and the end goal for the ruling American party (GOP). See their recent attacks on the EPA. > poisoning Americans is part of Chinese culture . WTF is wrong with you? Why are there humans on HN like you? BTW the Chinese who poisoned their own countrymen in pursuit of profit were put to death, while the Americans who do the same to this day in Flint, Michigan and other places are still alive and they're still poisoning Americans. Is it American culture to poison your countrymen?
    - pleasebecivil 8y ago
      Flint crisis is over.
      - A2017U1 8y ago
        I think you missed the point. The Chinese melamine scandal is over too.
        shard972 8y ago
        And yet I can't buy a tin of baby formula because it's all sold out instantly.
      - 3131s 8y ago
        But not the lead crisis.
  - 8y ago
shard972 8y ago
How is this racist white supremcist drivel allows to stay on HN? We are 1 human race, there is no difference between skin color. To call out an entire people as cruel and heartless is just so wrong!
- powerapple 8y ago
  1 human race, but very different financially. That will lead to many different things.
- krageon 8y ago
  There is a good chunk of the userbase that doesn't care to think about what the statement you're responding to sounds like, or that the spin that you read here might be part of a concerted effort to make a whole country look bad. It's worthwhile to bring attention to that and it's good that you're doing so, but try to put it in a format that uses examples and sound reasoning. That way people might be more inclined to listen to it, as opposed to a fairly emotional argument that is also vaguely hostile to boot.
- NotANaN 8y ago
  I am referring to the "Chinese vendors and mfgs" in the parent comment, not the entire Chinese "race." I called them conscience-less. In support of my view, I quoted the World Health Organization stating that these people knew what they were doing, and it was done intentionally on a large scale. In your view, is the World Health Organization fond of writing "racist white supremcist[sic] drivel"? How is it "racist" or "white supremacist" to express horror at injury and death of Chinese babies? If I were either of those slurs, I would be celebrating this scandal, not expressing horror at it.

markdown 8y ago

Who is "they"? This is a nation of almost 1.4 billion people. There are more unarmed civilians (including children) murdered by US police every year than all deaths from the Chinese milk scandal combined. Would that make it reasonable to state that "All US citizens have proved they have no conscience"? In any case, the Chinese milk scandal pales in comparison to what Nestle did: https://www.businessinsider.com/nestles-infant-formula-scandal-2012-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/nestles-infant-formula-scand... Do you no longer buy Nestle?

gpm 8y ago
I don't understand the complaint in that article? It seems to basically be that: - Nestle made a baby formula - They marketed it heavily to poor people in the third world. - Poor people in the third world proceed to dilute the formula with more than the recommended amount of water to save money (and the article does not say that this was at Nestle's prompting), and as a result didn't feed their babies enough. Maybe less than ideal and somewhat scummy? Sure, most advertising is like that really. Worse than literally selling poisonous baby formula? I don't see it. But perhaps I misunderstand the accusation.
- meds2010 8y ago
  the numbers are definitely worse. "millions" dead? that sounds pretty bad. Not sure how true that is. It certainly isn't clear. But the idea that a western corporation will do something like changing a product to save money, or not recalling a product knowing that someone out there will die... do you really need to be given examples of that?
  - darawk 8y ago
    Millions died because mother's diluted the formula, against the instructions of the company. How is that Nestle's fault?
    - markdown 8y ago
      Nestle marketed the formula heavily as a safe substitute for breast milk despite the fact they knew many Africans didn't have access to safe drinking water to make the formula, they sold it heavily discounted. Mothers bought it and used it so their own breast milk dried up. Then when they couldn't afford enough of it as the baby grew and needed more, they were forced to ration the formula. Millions died.
- autoexec 8y ago
  I'd heard part of the problem was that Nestlé lied to mothers to make them think they needed it, gave them enough for free that their own breast-milk dried up making them dependent on formula to feed their child at which point many were stuck with an expense they couldn't actually afford leading to things like diluting the formula. Certainly not as bad as outright poisoning formula, but a shitty thing in general to poverty stricken areas who were more than capable of feeding their own babies for free before Nestlé took advantage of them to take what little those mothers had.
  - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
    But this is nowhere near the same thing as the Chinese baby milk melamine scandal, as well as more localized fake baby milk powder scandals. In fact, people go to HK to buy so much baby milk powder that they had prevent export. We are comparing a non defective product that couldn’t be used effectively by a certain populations to outright fraud.
    - meds2010 8y ago
      I can see a product designer make the case that if millions are dying, then the product is defective in some way. The rules are different in two different places, but I can see how someone thinks these two cases are similar, both are about corporate greed, and the victims are just statistics. Is it murder if there is something wrong with the product, and you don't pull it? Many people out there believe that it is: https://www.odwyerpr.com/story/public/5379/2015-09-18/gm-pays-900m-walks-away-from-fraud-murder.html https://www.odwyerpr.com/story/public/5379/2015-09-18/gm-pay...
      - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
        Well, one is against the law and the other is not and, in fact, couldn’t be without serious implications to personal freedom. One messes with the truthfulness of the information an informed consumer has available, the other simply relies on an uninformed consumer. These are not similar at all. As an analogy, take sugary snacks. Say a snack has lots of sugar but the company claims it is sugar free anyways. In another case, a snack is truthful about its sugar content but the consumer lacks the education (or willpower) to care. Aren’t these completely different problems?
NotANaN 8y ago
> Who is "they"? From the parent comment: "Chinese vendors and mfgs"
jasonbarrah 8y ago
This is just one example. There is also fentanyl, knock off prescription medication, and I've even gotten fake sex toys from China. The point is that stealing, lying, and poisoning Americans is part of Chinese culture. And what's worse is it appears that their state department is egging them on. So sure, there are Americans that do greedy things and have externalities. The problem is, it's China's stated national policy.
- markdown 8y ago
  Cutting corners to make items cheaper and make more money without govt regulation is capitalism and the end goal for the ruling American party (GOP). See their recent attacks on the EPA. > poisoning Americans is part of Chinese culture . WTF is wrong with you? Why are there humans on HN like you? BTW the Chinese who poisoned their own countrymen in pursuit of profit were put to death, while the Americans who do the same to this day in Flint, Michigan and other places are still alive and they're still poisoning Americans. Is it American culture to poison your countrymen?
  - pleasebecivil 8y ago
    Flint crisis is over.
    - A2017U1 8y ago
      I think you missed the point. The Chinese melamine scandal is over too.
      - shard972 8y ago
        And yet I can't buy a tin of baby formula because it's all sold out instantly.
    - 3131s 8y ago
      But not the lead crisis.
- 8y ago

shard972 8y ago

How is this racist white supremcist drivel allows to stay on HN? We are 1 human race, there is no difference between skin color. To call out an entire people as cruel and heartless is just so wrong!

powerapple 8y ago
1 human race, but very different financially. That will lead to many different things.
krageon 8y ago
There is a good chunk of the userbase that doesn't care to think about what the statement you're responding to sounds like, or that the spin that you read here might be part of a concerted effort to make a whole country look bad. It's worthwhile to bring attention to that and it's good that you're doing so, but try to put it in a format that uses examples and sound reasoning. That way people might be more inclined to listen to it, as opposed to a fairly emotional argument that is also vaguely hostile to boot.
NotANaN 8y ago
I am referring to the "Chinese vendors and mfgs" in the parent comment, not the entire Chinese "race." I called them conscience-less. In support of my view, I quoted the World Health Organization stating that these people knew what they were doing, and it was done intentionally on a large scale. In your view, is the World Health Organization fond of writing "racist white supremcist[sic] drivel"? How is it "racist" or "white supremacist" to express horror at injury and death of Chinese babies? If I were either of those slurs, I would be celebrating this scandal, not expressing horror at it.