7 ms·

> Zeta Global, whose clients include wireless carriers, generates scores using data points such as the number of times a customer has dialed a call center and w

> Zeta Global, whose clients include wireless carriers, generates scores using data points such as the number of times a customer has dialed a call center and whether that person has browsed a competitor’s website or searched certain keywords in the past few days. Wait, so this means I dial a number and they link my identity to my browser to tell whether I've browsed a competitor's website in the past few days? Is this really how far tracking has come?

newnewpdro 8y ago
Did you think they weren't going to leverage your phone number in other ways when you furnished it for "improved security"?
- mehrdadn 8y ago
  No, but that doesn't imply they've also pulled off the above.
- astura 8y ago
  Personal Capital does this. They require your cell phone number for 2FA, but they call you to try to sell you financial advisors (and they know how much money you have because you've links your accounts). I still use it though, it's valuable enough to me to put up with it.
- root_axis 8y ago
  It's even crazier than that. The phone companies have data-sharing agreements with data-providers that (for a fee) sell your subscriber data through a phone number based API (this includes name, address and other information valuable to a sales funnel, KYC, or customer verification process). Check your wireless service EULA to see that you have agreed to this.
  - codetrotter 8y ago
    To make the best out of a bad situation, you could perhaps use this to your advantage in the following way: If you are about to call support for some reason, spend a couple of minutes browsing competitor sites first and then make the call. The queuing system should then prioritize your call because they think you are considering leaving them for someone else.
- johnchristopher 8y ago
  I distinctly remember reading "and we'll never use this number for other purposes than security". Everybody (including HN) was pushing for 2FA. People followed.
  - icebraining 8y ago
    Pushing for 2FA != pushing for SMS codes. TOTP (Google Authenticator and friends) doesn't reveal any personal data.
    - newnewpdro 8y ago
      Agreed, 2FA is a good idea but it was never in the users' best interest to attain it via phone numbers. But when all these organizations saw an opportunity to couple a reliable phone number with what was otherwise in most cases, an account having just an email address, they jumped on it.
- Scoundreller 8y ago
  Time to start spoofing my wealthier friend’s phone numbers.
- slowhand09 8y ago
  local area code + 867-5309
  - ebullientocelot 8y ago
    Thanks, it's stuck in my head now.
    - jschwartzi 8y ago
      Jenny I got your number I need to make you mine Jenny don't change your number... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WTdTwcmxyo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WTdTwcmxyo
  - Godel_unicode 8y ago
    Also at grocery stores for those member-only discounts.
atwebb 8y ago
That's not nearly how far it's gone, but yes, this is an implementation of it.
- mehrdadn 8y ago
  You mean it's gone much farther than this? Would you have any examples?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - CamperBob2 8y ago
    A classic example from several years ago: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/#71f061236668 https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-targ... That was several years ago.
    - solarkraft 8y ago
      That's using all of her purchasing history. Knowing your customer has visited a competitor's website appears more difficult to me.
      - hulahoof 8y ago
        If you're a telco this is trivial for your customers.
      - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
        DNS providers often know all the websites an IP visited.
  - philwelch 8y ago
    Political campaigns track voters on an individual level, correlating third party data with public voter rolls and using the data for microtargeting and analytics.
jklinger410 8y ago
>they link my identity to my browser They link your phone number to a session/user along with ad networks who have stored cookies on your machine and use predictive modeling to guess at who you are/what you do. It doesn't work on 90% of the HN crowd, people who block ads/disable javascript, or just don't do a lot of traditional "browsing", but yeah.
- da_chicken 8y ago
  You know, I'm quickly reaching a point where I want the default browser to work in Incognito mode, and the browser should only switch to regular mode when I explicitly whitelist the domain.
  - hetspookjee 8y ago
    On Android I browse by default with Firefox Focus and only to use sessions like posting this response I copy the URL to chrome and make the post. Than I'll go back to Focus. It's crude but Firefox Focus beats all browsers privacy and responsiveness on Android imo.
    - cpeterso 8y ago
      Once I started using Firefox Focus, I was surprised at just how much of my browsing didn't need to be logged in. I don't need to keep session state when I'm just reading Wikipedia, news sites, or blogs.
    - amorroxic 8y ago
      Same, Focus is great. Also a very warm mention for what I think became one of my favourite features while browsing - one single tab.
    - chrsstrm 8y ago
      Same. My one wish for Focus is that I could open another tab. Even just one more tab during an active session would make life easier.
savrajsingh 8y ago
Let’s flip it and make a browser plugin that sets it so you have all the traits of a user that needs to be responded to immediately
nitwit005 8y ago
That description seems exaggerated. It implies they've got your full browsing and search history, which is a bit unlikely. Honestly, if you're calling some support number they usually already have your name, home address, and so forth. There's plenty of information you can link to that.
notatoad 8y ago
every time i hear about tracking like this, i start to get paranoid and think about trying to restrict my trackability. But then i remember that if i search for (to give last week's example) a new travel mug on amazon, and then buy a new travel mug on amazon, i continue getting "retargeting" ads from amazon for the exact same product for two weeks after purchasing it. If amazon can't figure out whether or not to advertise something to me after i've already bought the thing they're advertising while i'm signed in to their website, i don't have much faith in anybody's ability to fingerprint me from unauthenticated sessions across multiple mediums and multiple companies. I can believe somebody is trying to sell a service that claims to do this, but i don't beleive they actually can.
- blub 8y ago
  They're going for repeat purchasers with those ads, someone explained it here on HN a while ago. It also makes them look silly / harmless which is a double win. Looks to me that Amazon outsmarted you by so much, it overflowed and now you think you're outsmarting them :)
LeftTurnSignal 8y ago
Whenever I look for airline tickets, I always use several different browsers (and VPNs when needed) for this exact reason. I don't have proof that any airlines were tracking how many times i refreshed or went to a competitors web site, but this has happened each time I went to look up airline tickets. So I'm not surprised that they track the number of calls, or anything anymore. There's been a few different times that I saved $150+ just by using a different browser to order the tickets. Even if I never logged in, or even had an account to begin with. One of the more recent examples is a few years ago, I was looking at tickets for a trip overseas. I would go to the first site, look at flights, then go to a competitors site, do same thing, go back and see my price went up $25 in a few minutes. Then I would check the competitors, and see their price went up some. I then changed to a different web browser, and it drops back down to the original price. That was 6+ years ago though, so maybe it's changed....? Probably not as much as I would like. The tracking stuff is beyond ridiculous for those types of purchases.

newnewpdro 8y ago

Did you think they weren't going to leverage your phone number in other ways when you furnished it for "improved security"?

mehrdadn 8y ago
No, but that doesn't imply they've also pulled off the above.
astura 8y ago
Personal Capital does this. They require your cell phone number for 2FA, but they call you to try to sell you financial advisors (and they know how much money you have because you've links your accounts). I still use it though, it's valuable enough to me to put up with it.
root_axis 8y ago
It's even crazier than that. The phone companies have data-sharing agreements with data-providers that (for a fee) sell your subscriber data through a phone number based API (this includes name, address and other information valuable to a sales funnel, KYC, or customer verification process). Check your wireless service EULA to see that you have agreed to this.
- codetrotter 8y ago
  To make the best out of a bad situation, you could perhaps use this to your advantage in the following way: If you are about to call support for some reason, spend a couple of minutes browsing competitor sites first and then make the call. The queuing system should then prioritize your call because they think you are considering leaving them for someone else.
johnchristopher 8y ago
I distinctly remember reading "and we'll never use this number for other purposes than security". Everybody (including HN) was pushing for 2FA. People followed.
- icebraining 8y ago
  Pushing for 2FA != pushing for SMS codes. TOTP (Google Authenticator and friends) doesn't reveal any personal data.
  - newnewpdro 8y ago
    Agreed, 2FA is a good idea but it was never in the users' best interest to attain it via phone numbers. But when all these organizations saw an opportunity to couple a reliable phone number with what was otherwise in most cases, an account having just an email address, they jumped on it.
Scoundreller 8y ago
Time to start spoofing my wealthier friend’s phone numbers.
slowhand09 8y ago
local area code + 867-5309
- ebullientocelot 8y ago
  Thanks, it's stuck in my head now.
  - jschwartzi 8y ago
    Jenny I got your number I need to make you mine Jenny don't change your number... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WTdTwcmxyo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WTdTwcmxyo
- Godel_unicode 8y ago
  Also at grocery stores for those member-only discounts.

atwebb 8y ago

That's not nearly how far it's gone, but yes, this is an implementation of it.

mehrdadn 8y ago
You mean it's gone much farther than this? Would you have any examples?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- CamperBob2 8y ago
  A classic example from several years ago: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/#71f061236668 https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-targ... That was several years ago.
  - solarkraft 8y ago
    That's using all of her purchasing history. Knowing your customer has visited a competitor's website appears more difficult to me.
    - hulahoof 8y ago
      If you're a telco this is trivial for your customers.
    - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
      DNS providers often know all the websites an IP visited.
- philwelch 8y ago
  Political campaigns track voters on an individual level, correlating third party data with public voter rolls and using the data for microtargeting and analytics.

jklinger410 8y ago

>they link my identity to my browser They link your phone number to a session/user along with ad networks who have stored cookies on your machine and use predictive modeling to guess at who you are/what you do. It doesn't work on 90% of the HN crowd, people who block ads/disable javascript, or just don't do a lot of traditional "browsing", but yeah.

da_chicken 8y ago
You know, I'm quickly reaching a point where I want the default browser to work in Incognito mode, and the browser should only switch to regular mode when I explicitly whitelist the domain.
- hetspookjee 8y ago
  On Android I browse by default with Firefox Focus and only to use sessions like posting this response I copy the URL to chrome and make the post. Than I'll go back to Focus. It's crude but Firefox Focus beats all browsers privacy and responsiveness on Android imo.
  - cpeterso 8y ago
    Once I started using Firefox Focus, I was surprised at just how much of my browsing didn't need to be logged in. I don't need to keep session state when I'm just reading Wikipedia, news sites, or blogs.
  - amorroxic 8y ago
    Same, Focus is great. Also a very warm mention for what I think became one of my favourite features while browsing - one single tab.
  - chrsstrm 8y ago
    Same. My one wish for Focus is that I could open another tab. Even just one more tab during an active session would make life easier.

savrajsingh 8y ago

Let’s flip it and make a browser plugin that sets it so you have all the traits of a user that needs to be responded to immediately

nitwit005 8y ago

That description seems exaggerated. It implies they've got your full browsing and search history, which is a bit unlikely. Honestly, if you're calling some support number they usually already have your name, home address, and so forth. There's plenty of information you can link to that.

notatoad 8y ago

every time i hear about tracking like this, i start to get paranoid and think about trying to restrict my trackability. But then i remember that if i search for (to give last week's example) a new travel mug on amazon, and then buy a new travel mug on amazon, i continue getting "retargeting" ads from amazon for the exact same product for two weeks after purchasing it. If amazon can't figure out whether or not to advertise something to me after i've already bought the thing they're advertising while i'm signed in to their website, i don't have much faith in anybody's ability to fingerprint me from unauthenticated sessions across multiple mediums and multiple companies. I can believe somebody is trying to sell a service that claims to do this, but i don't beleive they actually can.

blub 8y ago
They're going for repeat purchasers with those ads, someone explained it here on HN a while ago. It also makes them look silly / harmless which is a double win. Looks to me that Amazon outsmarted you by so much, it overflowed and now you think you're outsmarting them :)

LeftTurnSignal 8y ago

Whenever I look for airline tickets, I always use several different browsers (and VPNs when needed) for this exact reason. I don't have proof that any airlines were tracking how many times i refreshed or went to a competitors web site, but this has happened each time I went to look up airline tickets. So I'm not surprised that they track the number of calls, or anything anymore. There's been a few different times that I saved $150+ just by using a different browser to order the tickets. Even if I never logged in, or even had an account to begin with. One of the more recent examples is a few years ago, I was looking at tickets for a trip overseas. I would go to the first site, look at flights, then go to a competitors site, do same thing, go back and see my price went up $25 in a few minutes. Then I would check the competitors, and see their price went up some. I then changed to a different web browser, and it drops back down to the original price. That was 6+ years ago though, so maybe it's changed....? Probably not as much as I would like. The tracking stuff is beyond ridiculous for those types of purchases.