57 ms·

iPad Pro

• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• minimaxir 8y ago
  Very impressive demos, but unfortunately the number of apps that can make full use of the increased power is still limited. A common complaint I saw during the presentation was the emphasis of the A12X for gaming, but Apple is still very bad at incentivizing developers to make games with premium experiences and prices (to say nothing of the lack of an official gaming controller!) Also, the new Apple Pencil will only work with the new iPads; it's not compatible with previous Pros: https://www.apple.com/apple-pencil/ https://www.apple.com/apple-pencil/
  • vxNsr 8y ago
    > Also, the new Apple Pencil will only work with the new iPads; it's not compatible with previous Pros: https://www.apple.com/apple-pencil/ https://www.apple.com/apple-pencil/ Because the older pros don't have a way to charge it. Which is to me another one of those ingenious but now obvious design choices, I know the sGNote series has "wireless" charging for their stylus, but it needs to go into the device to be charged, this is so much cooler because it doesn't require that. I wish that Microsoft had thought of this for the surface pen.
    • minimaxir 8y ago
      I figured that'd be the case, but still disappointed.
    • andrewaylett 8y ago
      Unless the Note series has changes dramatically, which is always possible -- I just ditched my Note 3 -- they're using passive Wacom pens. No charging necessary, the internal slot is purely for storage.
      • dragonwriter 8y ago
        This was definitely still true through the Note 8; but the Note 9 S-Pen has an onboard battery (mostly, I think, for the remote functionality; the core stylus functionality might use the same tech as before.)
      • andrewpi 8y ago
        The Note9 added bluetooth to the S Pen (you can use it as a remote camera shutter now), and it charges inductively when it's inside the phone.
    • dpark 8y ago
      > Which is to me another one of those ingenious but now obvious design choices ... I wish that Microsoft had thought of this for the surface pen. I'm kind of glad they didn't. A pen magnetically attached will likely pop off when you put the tablet in your bag. It's a nice place to dock the pen when you're using the tablet, but poor place to store it in a bag. People report up to a year of life with the Surface Pen battery. Swapping it out when it dies seems simpler than remembering to charge it regularly.
      • vxNsr 8y ago
        > A pen magnetically attached will likely pop off when you put the tablet in your bag. The surface pen already magnetically attaches to the surface, this would just give that attachment another purpose. > Swapping it out when it dies seems simpler than remembering to charge it regularly. You don't have to remember anything, you just "redock" the stylus when you're done using it and it will charge.
        • dpark 8y ago
          > The surface pen already magnetically attaches to the surface, this would just give that another purpose. I'm aware. But it's not "just another purpose". It's a different design. A battery that needs charging is a fundamentally different design choice than a battery that needs replacing. I'd rather a disposable battery that lasts for a year than a rechargeable battery that lasts a week. > You don't have to remember anything, you just "redock" the stylus when you're done using it and it will charge. And then you shove your tablet in your bag and the pen falls off. The pen languishes in the bottom of the bag until the next time you want to use it, when it may or may not still be holding a usable charge. A pen that needs to be stuck to the side of your device regularly is fine for a device that sits on a desk all the time. It's less clearly beneficial for a device that gets handled constantly and goes into and out of bags.
          • read_if_gay_ 8y ago
            >I'd rather a disposable battery that lasts for a year than a rechargeable battery that lasts a week The science isn't quite there yet with those uranium batteries
  • AJ007 8y ago
    You are right about the prices. Expecting a $60 AAA console game for $5 is not going to happen. Free to play AAA games where you end up spending $1000 to do everything means players end up hating the game and paying for fewer games. The alternative is games with truly massive player bases like Minecraft or Fortnite, which isn't scalable either.
    • ChikkaChiChi 8y ago
      Nintendo seems to be doing quite well at this. Why would we not have the same expectation for Apple?
      • jaegerpicker 8y ago
        Because Nintendo only started being able to do this within the last year and even then only a few big AAA studios are really on board. AAA games on the switch are really limited to in house Nintendo based IP and Bethesda. There are a few others but not a ton. Notable exceptions include Epic with Fortnight but that's also on iOS so it doesn't really prove the point. So really Nintendo isn't quite doing it yet. Said as an absolute lover of the switch.
        • ChikkaChiChi 8y ago
          Fair point, but their SDK is allowing indie developers to fast track access to the ecosystem and hardware. If Apple had a snap on controller like the one we're seeing Microsoft leaking, it would be game over. A great controller with great support on a refreshed Apple iPad mini would clobber everything on the market and it wouldn't even be close.
  • lostgame 8y ago
    >> (to say nothing of the lack of an official gaming controller!) Apple themselves does not publish an 'official' gaming controller, no, instead they offer a number of third-party controllers at a quite nice build quality at prices that are comparable to buying a new PS4/XBOX controller: https://www.apple.com/shop/accessories/all-accessories/toys-games?page=1#!&f=gamecontrol&fh=4684%2B45ef https://www.apple.com/shop/accessories/all-accessories/toys-...
    • minimaxir 8y ago
      That's true; I do have a Steelseries Nimbus, although it feels a bit jank compared to console controllers from other companies.
    • woolvalley 8y ago
      It's about developers having an install base to make games against. They need to ship a controller with an apple tv, otherwise gaming stays in the casual corner it usually is in iOS. These iPads are more powerful than any nintendo switch, but nintendo has them beat because they have a dedicated gaming hardware ecosystem. I wish I could use my iPhone like I would a switch, but I can't because there isn't any serious games or first party hardware. As a result, serious game devs target mobile last, if they do at all. I bought Transistor for my apple TV for example and asked for the first refund of an iOS app ever because it was an crashy mess. I played it on my PC instead.
    • saturdaysaint 8y ago
      Making a controller an optional peripheral means that support is an afterthought for most app makers and that games are mostly designed with touch in mind. Nintendo and Sega have showed time and again throughout their histories that optional controllers get little to no 3rd party support.
  • SllX 8y ago
    Doubt they would do it, but their own spin on the Nintendo seal of quality, with a floor of $50-$60 USD (and their own spin on "Selects" a few years later dropping some of those prices to $20USD) with some mandates on what that seal of quality means (performance, software features, hardware support, &c.) and they might turn that gaming ship around. Among their requirements they could list: Apple TV with Controller support (allowing devs to ditch the useless support for the Remote), some online features (some rebranded version of Game Center), Mac support (for Macs that support the latest iterations of Metal). It's the little things.
  • askafriend 8y ago
    Counterpoint: A full version of Photoshop is coming to iPad in 2019. Adobe announced it at their conference recently. I suspect they'll bring full versions of Lightroom, and all their other Pro Apps soon to iPad.
    • killerdhmo 8y ago
      Yep; here are live apps: * Lightroom CC on iPhone/iPad: https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-cc/how-to/lightroom-mobile.html https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-cc/how-to/lightroom-mobile... * Just recently announced Premier Rush: https://www.adobe.com/products/premiere-rush.html https://www.adobe.com/products/premiere-rush.html Planned/Announced: * Photoshop: https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/photoshop-ecosystem.html https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/photoshop-ecosystem.html * Project Gemini (for drawing/painting/illustrating): https://theblog.adobe.com/introducing-project-gemini/ https://theblog.adobe.com/introducing-project-gemini/
  • tardigras 8y ago
    It always takes time to fully utilize a new platform's specs.
    • werbel 8y ago
      I remember 2005 when was running Windows with Linux in a VM, Photoshop, Firefox, my Rails application and all of the other software I needed for development, music and everything else on a 1GHz AMD Athlon and 256MB SDRAM. When it comes to software that’s not games and stuff like video editing it seems to me like the most of what happens is “It takes time for new software/updates to show up that once again are able to waste the full extent of my newly acquired processing power”. I know we get more robust games now, I know we render 4K videos instead of 460p, I know we display UI on higher resolution screens but there’s really no excuse for a software with similar feature scope to take the same resources percentage of modern top of the line hardware as mid-tier 18 years old machine. Bummer ;(
    • deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  • unrealhoang 8y ago
    Yes, my wildest dream is that they will release XCode with developer's tools (i.e. compilers), my laptop will be gone that exact second.
    • jaegerpicker 8y ago
      ditto if I could use Xcode on the iPad Pro I'd almost never use my MacBook Pro. That may be why it hasn't happed yet as many of us probably feel that way.
      • akhilcacharya 8y ago
        I like my mouse too much for this to be possible. Selecting/moving text with a finger is more annoying.
      • wlesieutre 8y ago
        >That may be why it hasn't happed yet as many of us probably feel that way. I don't know about that; one of Apple's hallmarks is that they aren't afraid to compete with their own products. Some companies would have said "We can't make the tablet into a powerful computer, it would cut into notebook sales. Especially with the USB-C change, these iPads are a serious competitor to Apple's laptops for pretty much anyone except developers. In a lot of ways they're better. Just not for programming because the software is still too sandboxed. Here's hoping that Xcode shows up.
      • jclardy 8y ago
        Same here. Especially with the new hardware from this year. Apple puts a ton of engineering into these new iOS devices, a little sad that the Mac lines don't really get the same treatment. I feel we are insanely close to this reality though. We have large enough displays now (even on the small one), external display support, external keyboard support and USB-C so we can actually plug in an iPhone into the iPad itself (Though this could have been skirted with the advent of wireless debugging support in Xcode. I'd still rather have the wire though.) Only thing I really want is some kind of trackpad or trackpad replacement. Or even just mouse support and I'll drop one in my bag.
      • 8y ago
  • pandakar 8y ago
    Interestingly, one place where this race to the bottom is NOT present is in iPad music apps, synths and DAWs. Prices range from 10 to 50, and the apps are polished.
  • simplify 8y ago
    > unfortunately the number of apps that can make full use of the increased power is still limited Isn't that a good thing? For example, wouldn't it be great if all web apps were optimized for specs lower than the machines we use?
  • yborg 8y ago
    Does the old Pencil work with the new iPads though?
    • minimaxir 8y ago
      Per the site, apparently not (guess the "can't charge" rationale works both ways)
• jaegerpicker 8y ago
  I love my iPad Pro so much, this is a really great upgrade IMO. I'm sure I'll be planning on a way to upgrade. Only downside is that I prefer touchId to FaceId but I'm mostly switching back to a passcode in any case.
  • mschaef 8y ago
    > I love my iPad Pro so much, Why? What is your use case? (Genuinely curious.)
    • jaegerpicker 8y ago
      I use it for nearly everything, it's simply the most convenient and fast computer device I own and I have far too many. Examples: -- Art: Apple pencil and procreate are the best drawing platform on the market IMO, clips studio on iPad is really close. I'm not a professional but I have tried and owned Wacom's (including cintques) and a Microsoft surface book. The iPad pro's screen and drawing experience is far better IMO. -- Music: I used to play guitar and still mess around a bit with it, also I've started programming electronic music. Garage Band, DJay Pro 2, and Bias Amp 2 are really amazing pieces of kit. The touch interface for Bias Amp 2 in particular is amazing and feels like using a real guitar amp. -- Gaming: Card and Board games, Pandemic, Star Realms, Hearthstone, etc.... are absolutely killer on the big 12.9 inch screen. Civ 6 is also an amazing game on the iPad. Along with a ton of AR based games. -- Reading: iBooks and Kindle -- Of course all of the standard social media and communications apps. I use the Logitech smart connect keyboard and it's very nice. -- Software Development: I'm an iOS dev and I use Swift playgrounds on iPad a ton to sketch ideas. When I do webdev I'll often use the iPad with Coda and a remote server and it's a great experience.
      • sorahn 8y ago
        How do you like Coda? I’ve been a Transmit user forever, so I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. With support for the lg 4/5ks I could actually see myself going all in on an iPad Pro for a home setup.
• alliecat 8y ago
  I want to try and charge a MBP off the iPad Pro!
  • rtkwe 8y ago
    It probably won't though I have been screwed a couple times when my USB power brick tried to charge itself off my phone because I hadn't pushed the button to switch the port from drawing power to delivering power. Is there some sort of protocol in USB-C for two devices with batteries to negotiate which should charge the other. Though I imagine the iPad could just refuse to deliver the high power states/not have the circuitry.
    • outworlder 8y ago
      It works for Macbook to Macbook charging, so why wouldn't it work with the iPad? Note that your device doesn't have to provide the requested power if it is unable to, it can provide less.
      • rtkwe 8y ago
        Doesn't the Macbook require a certain minimum power to be available before it will start trying to charge though. IE if I plug it into an old .5A USB charger would it try to charge off the 2.5W? That's most of what I meant when I was talking about providing enough power.
        • alliecat 8y ago
          It charges quite happily off the 3W max which is standard on most non-power-delivery USB-C ports (inc Apple's, iirc)
• emdowling 8y ago
  I just wish Apple would put the internals of the iPad Pro into the Apple TV and bundle it with a decent controller. The gaming potential is massive, and they even compared it to the Xbox One during the keynote. They are squandering a massive market opportunity - I just can't work out why.
  • saagarjha 8y ago
    Apple did that when Apple TV 4K came out: it has an A10X chip in it.
    • ascagnel_ 8y ago
      It lacks a controller, though. And the "best" controller is missing three inputs you'd expect (L3/R3 "stick click" buttons and a select button).
      • GiorgioG 8y ago
        What's this missing besides the 'select' button: https://steelseries.com/gaming-controllers/nimbus https://steelseries.com/gaming-controllers/nimbus
        • eropple 8y ago
          To be frank? An Apple logo. Third-party stuff isn't sufficiently sticky. If Apple wants games on their platform, they need their own controller. It might even be best if it comes in the box. I don't, however, think they really care that much.
          • GiorgioG 8y ago
            I don't buy that the logo alone would do it. It would have to come bundled with a controller by default and all games would have to work with said controller.
            • 8y ago
• flaviuspopan 8y ago
  Love how the frame switched back to the iPhone 4's style. Feels retro and futuristic at the same time.
  • replies_to_all 8y ago
    Cool, so people are calling for it, good to know.
• rtkwe 8y ago
  Huh looks like most of the predictions I'd heard came true: USB-C and no home button. Wonder if they're going to do the same shift on the rest of the lines? I'm a little surprised that the iPhone Xs and Xr weren't switched over to USB-c if this is planned for the whole line. Charging the pencil attached to the side is pretty neat the old solution was very... odd and seemed pretty dangerous (having such a long lever arm on the relatively small lightning port).
  • arrrg 8y ago
    I think the thought is to position the iPad mor like the Macs. Macs come with USB-C, too, after all. So the iPad becomes another device to plug your phone into, so to speak (if only to charge at first).
  • saagarjha 8y ago
    Apple Pencil is more durable than you’d think. Normal jostling while it’s charging doesn’t really affect it. With regards to USB C, I think they’re trying it out on the new iPads because these are ostensibly their “pro” iOS devices, so it makes sense to put higher-throughput ports on them first.
    • rtkwe 8y ago
      I'm less worried about the pencil than I am the port/connector. The pencil is pretty long and there's not much slop back front to back in that port to deal with jostling.
      • saagarjha 8y ago
        The end of the pencil, near the connector, has some flex in it.
  • FreakyT 8y ago
    I also was really hoping the new iPhones would finally make the switch to USB-C; it's ridiculous for them to continue putting Lightning ports on anything at this point, considering how they've gone all-in on USB-C on their Macbooks (and now iPad Pros). Hopefully next year's models will finally make the switch!
• antoineleclair 8y ago
  USB-C port. Great!
• ppeetteerr 8y ago
  I really like where the iPad is going. I play Civ 6 on a Pro with an Apple Pencil all the time, and I wish the screen was bigger. It is now, but that price... I could get a gaming rig for the cost of a 12in. My only question is where is the mini with FaceID?
  • ChikkaChiChi 8y ago
    It's interesting the mention the Xbox, when it's obvious they want to compete with Nintendo. Apple is quickly realizing that they missed a major market opportunity by not designing snap on controllers that convert iPads into Nintendo Switches. Touch works only for a subset of games, but a first-party controller would have absolutely destroyed the market.
    • ppeetteerr 8y ago
      Absolutely agree! The iPad is already my main gaming machine but it's also 2-4x more expensive than a console. At which point, does it make sense as a gaming platform for anyone not making an above average income?
  • briatx 8y ago
    > I really like where the iPad is going. You mean becoming more and more like a Surface Pro?
    • jaegerpicker 8y ago
      I've owned both and the iPad Pro was better for me in almost every way. The main issue with the Surface Pro is the horrid windows software eco-system, especially around touch interfaces. Almost without exception windows touch apps are terribly designed.
    • roordan 8y ago
      This is what I am hoping for. I want to have my tablet mode with iOS apps and interface. Then I want to switch into laptop/desktop mode, being able to spin up any desktop application. Even more a dream state: would want a docking station that allows me to use my multi monitor setup.
• rerx 8y ago
  Just looking at those product photos I am pretty confused. How is that a display that "goes from edge to edge"? There is bevel on each side...
  • saagarjha 8y ago
    It’s much smaller than the previous generation, but yes, it’s kind of a marketing conceit.
  • deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  • lewapkon 8y ago
    They mean glass
    • toasterlovin 8y ago
      It's a marketing conceit. The glass has gone edge to edge since the original iPad.
      • Terretta 8y ago
        Typing from most recent iPad Pro.. no, glass stops and edge is metal, you can catch a nail or pencil nib in the groove before the edge.
• ChikkaChiChi 8y ago
  The device is very nice, but it does not provide enough of a value proposition for me to want to buy one. It looks great for consuming content (though the focus on gaming when this device is supposed to be for professional use is odd), but the operating system itself limits the ability to produce anything more than trivial content or development.
  • macintux 8y ago
    > the operating system itself limits the ability to produce anything more than trivial content or development. I think that touch UI has constraints that are tough to overcome, but I strongly disagree that the operating system is a limit. Apple keeps exposing different ways to integrate apps, create workflows, even work with files directly. And of course the problem with this debate always includes fundamental mismatches over what type of content you're interested in, or what you consider "trivial", but Photoshop isn't for trivial content.
    • fabricexpert 8y ago
      > even work with files directly Gosh! What an incredible new feature
  • askafriend 8y ago
    I'm a hobbyist photographer and I edit all my photos in Lightroom on iPad. It's so much more fun and engaging to edit on iPad than on my iMac, not to mention easier (Apple Pencil makes touching up specific regions a breeze).
    • ChikkaChiChi 8y ago
      Apologies for not making a distinction. I was referring more to business documentation and software development. I failed to see the obvious uses in art and design. I see that it would be useful in the field, but don't you find the lack of a second screen an issue? I always like to have my file browser and palettes away from my main work area.
• PieUser 8y ago
  Biggest change was the Lightning -> USB-C port change
• Jgrubb 8y ago
  The person who decided to make this scroll sideways instead of down when you scroll down, and not to scroll sideways when you scroll sideways should be put in stocks in the town square.
  • sarreph 8y ago
    Maybe you didn't get the memo, but it's actually an early release of the 'new' way scroll. Scrolling 1.0 = normal scrolling Scrolling 2.0 = left/right up/down directions are inverted respectively Scrolling 3.0 = left/right scrolling only, via up/down gestures (use left/right gestures at your peril)
    • shrikant 8y ago
      > Scrolling 2.0 = left/right up/down directions are inverted respectively Man, this thing drives me nuts, and it's the first thing I change in every touchpad-equipped device I own. Scrolling is not swiping, people!
      • hnra 8y ago
        I'm the complete opposite. Touchpads not using reverse scrolling feels so weird to me.
        • roywiggins 8y ago
          It's the touchpad version of whether joystick-down means nose-down, or nose-up, in video games. Endless debates can be had!
          • tk75x 8y ago
            Joystick down means nose up because it's simulating the yoke of your airplane in which you pull back (joystick down) in order to "pull up" the nose of the plane. The recent fad of reversing the touchpad scrolling direction is an attempt to simulate how we use our phones in which we tap the content on screen and drag it around to pull other content into view. Because the touchpad was invented to replace a mouse, I expect similar motions to produce the same results. For example: scrolling the wheel down moves your viewpoint in the current window down, so a similar motion on the touchpad (swipe down - use two fingers to differentiate from a normal touch) should produce a similar result. Instead, we get manufacturers who by default include un-intuitive configurations of something that had been working for decades for billions of people. At least for now we are allowed to change those settings.
• maxxxxx 8y ago
  That site is horrible. First it scrolls horizontally and then it switches to vertical towards the end. Why do "designers" have to reinvent simple things again and again? Is there nothing better to do?
  • nameequalsmain 8y ago
    I agree, but I gotta give it to them that it works great with javascript disabled. Becomes a normal, vertical-scroll website. Better that with javascript in my opinion.
    • cm2187 8y ago
      I did that for many years but got fed up of landing on blogs that would display a blank page because you absolutely need javascript to render a few paragraphs of text in a browser.
    • maxxxxx 8y ago
      Maybe it should be a vertical scroll site no matter what? What does horizontal scrolling add?
  • fermienrico 8y ago
    I couldn't agree more, why is a simple vertically scrolling page something that needs to be "spiced" up? I couldn't find a way to swipe on my ThinkPad non-touch laptop. I ended up using right arrow keys.
  • aikah 8y ago
    I'd argue while the UX is questionable (panning the page right to left while the user scroll down), the website loads pretty fast, which is a good thing, and the scrolling is smooth. The page also weights less than 14 MB. Here is an example of horrible UX plus horrible loading time plus janky scrolling brought you by Google. 60 seconds after the page was open the content of the top of the page was still not done loading (72MB before I closed the page). https://store.google.com/us/product/pixel_3 https://store.google.com/us/product/pixel_3 I think it's hardly just a matter of design here.
• SllX 8y ago
  From the keynote, Cook claimed the new A12X Bionic[1] is faster than 92% of portable PCs[2] (in English, laptops, Surfaces) sold in the past year, including some i7 models. - 8 core CPU (4 low and 4 high power cores) - 7 core GPU - HEVC encoding/decoding - Neural Engine (they haven't made any comparisons to the A12 sans X neural engine, so at this point I think it's the same) - Audio DSP, Storage controller, Image Signal Processor, Apple performance controller, Depth Engine, &c. [1] http://live.arstechnica.com/apples-october-30-2018-more-in-the-making-event/images/appleipadproOct2018event_0333.jpg http://live.arstechnica.com/apples-october-30-2018-more-in-t... [2] http://live.arstechnica.com/apples-october-30-2018-more-in-the-making-event/images/appleipadproOct2018event_0324.jpg http://live.arstechnica.com/apples-october-30-2018-more-in-t...
  • Redoubts 8y ago
    This was either a sharp prod for intel, or some serious signaling.
    • theshrike79 8y ago
      MacBooks _will_ transition to Apple's own chips at some point. My guess is that the A14 or A15 generation will be fast and powerful enough to make the leap. This will be big especially if they can get major price or power usage advantages.
      • lwkl 8y ago
        Microsoft is preparing the move to ARM too. I'd be really interested how the performance will be. The Intel Mobile Processor (i7 + M7) felt really slow before the eight generation and still used a lot of power (at least in the Lenovo and HP Business notebooks).
        • olyjohn 8y ago
          Is Microsoft preparing an x86 emulation layer for their ARM-based OS? Because as the past has proven, nobody wants to buy a Windows PC that can't run Windows software. Unfortunately, it's almost all been compiled to run on x86. Or are they still betting on moving everything to UWP?
• DrNuke 8y ago
  It is impressive but an overkill imho, going into desktops’ territory. I would have bought a refreshed iPad mini instead.
  • dragontamer 8y ago
    Certainly not "desktop territory" (at least, 2018 desktop), but its definitely in "laptop territory" now, which is a major advancement. Desktops are 8-fat-core behemoths in 2018 with incredible potential. Ryzen 7 2700x == 8-core / 16 threads. Intel i7-9700k isn't even the top-end anymore and is also 8-core /(only 8-threads). And its actually reasonable to build a 64-GB of RAM Consumer Desktop (Ryzen 7 2700x or Intel i7-9700k). ------ iPad Pro may be 8-core... but its configuration is 4-fast core + 4-low-power Core, still building itself as a way to reduce power consumption at the cost of speed / performance. 4GB of RAM is also pitiful and won't be sufficient for desktop-level tasks. Desktops can run 8-fat cores all day long due to their wall-power connection. iPads are still designed for mobility and low-power consumption. Its a good compromise, but I wouldn't bill it as anything more than a laptop-class system.
• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• reacharavindh 8y ago
  I wish they made an iPhone SE as a miniature form of this iPad. square-ish edges (easier to hold), better & larger LCD displays within the same body size, and powerful internals. The new iphones are just too big for one-handed use. you want to type the name of the website on top bar of mobile Safari - bring the next hand out or drop your phone....
  • brandall10 8y ago
    Agreed. I'm hoping as some of this newer tech is commoditized that economy of scale allows an updated smaller entry to return. I wouldn't mind paying X prices for such a beast, but I'm aware the market wouldn't support $500+.
    • reacharavindh 8y ago
      Yeah, I'm actually not that picky about the tech inside. Give me last gen internals - A11 processor, prev. gen camera, no True tone/glued up display whatever to reduce cost. But, give me a phone that is the size of iPhone SE but with a bigger display, and decent enough camera - I'd line up in the store for that.
  • vbezhenar 8y ago
    I wish they keep iPhone SE design as it is and just update the internals.
    • giu 8y ago
      I'm glad I'm not the only one who really loves the SE design. I bought my first SE a few years ago, and now bought the very same model a few months ago (first one broke due to water damage). It costs a lot less than the current models, supports all the functionality I currently need, and more importantly I can use it comfortably with one hand only.
  • hobls 8y ago
    > bring the next hand out or drop your phone.... This is not a great solution, but in "Accessibility Options" you can enable the gesture to swipe down on the bottom to bring the top of the screen down to the middle so you can reach it one handed. It's clunky but helpful. It's the functionality that used to be on a double tap of the home button or something, and I thought it was removed, but it was just turned off by default.
• ocfx 8y ago
  Wow you guys made a drawing tablet
• lechiffre10 8y ago
  Swiping all the way down the screen to unlock with FaceID is going to be a big burden on the Ipad Pro. Less of a burden on the iPhone series for obvious reasons but really? Why not let people swipe up anywhere on the screen to unlock FaceID.
  • saagarjha 8y ago
    Don’t you swipe up to unlock with Face ID?
    • lechiffre10 8y ago
      Yea i meant having to swipe up from the bottom of the screen
  • wilsonnb3 8y ago
    Agreed. I’ve gotten somewhat used to it now, but I preferred the old gestures from iOS 11 on the iPad over the new iPhone X style gestures in iOS 12.
• mkirklions 8y ago
  Ive heard that its bad marketing to say things are bettER. BrightER, biggER, fastER. This is what I've seen Apple resort to over the last few years. This is very concerning for a luxury product manufacturer. However my reluctance to declare Apple 'myspace' is that there is a gigantic amount of resources and effort to change from the Apple ecosystem. A user likely wont gamble that a 400 dollar Android is going to be better than an iphone. They wont try something new. A switch from myspace to facebook was basically free. I've gotten to try both as I purchased one phone, and got the other for work. HN downvotes anything anti-apple, but I was surprised when things 'didnt just work'. Having to hit the play button a few times on my podcast screen, siri needing voice recognition was nothing like google, and a strange bug using apple maps causing my phone to reboot. That said, I can see their death being from a lack of reason to upgrade. Users deciding their phone/tablet is good enough and they'd rather spend 1,000 USD on other things. Since I havent experienced it, what is the appeal of Apple in 2018 and beyond? EDIT: lol never change HN whales, never change
  • MrScruff 8y ago
    Given the strength of their product reviews and user satisfaction numbers it’s clear that your experience isn’t universal. That and their incredibly hard won brand loyalty and association with high value customers (when was the last time you saw an android phone being used for a product photo of a cross platform phone app?) means the wheels are unlikely to fall off anytime soon.
    • mkirklions 8y ago
      >product reviews and user satisfaction numbers How would someone know what expectations are? It is very expensive and risky to try a new phone. This was mentioned in the original post.
  • lwkl 8y ago
    Happy iPhone user since 2018 and no regrets so far. I used Android for 7 years before that and I don't miss the constant crashes and the bad customer service I had with my HTC and Samsung phones (both flagship phones that cost the same as an iPhone).
• tyingq 8y ago
  "The new Liquid Retina display goes from edge to edge" I've never owned an iPad, perhaps I'm missing something here. How does the above statement reconcile with the pictures I see on the page where there's clearly a black bezel? Do they just mean there's not an area at the bottom with a physical button?
  • rpeden 8y ago
    Well, I guess you could say the display is edge-to-edge because it goes from the edge of one bezel to the edge of the opposite bezel... :)
  • nicebill8 8y ago
    I think this essentially means the bezels are the same width the entire way round.
  • ziftface 8y ago
    Yeah pretty much. The bezels are smaller than on current ipads, but yeah "edge to edge" is definitely a stretch.
    • slavak 8y ago
      You mean a "lie." Calling a notched iPhone "all-screen" is a bit of a stretch. This is just straight upfalse.
      • DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
        Forgive the humor in a HN comment, but because of you I shall add "upfalse" to my working lexicon.
        • Sharlin 8y ago
          It's a plusgood word.
    • sricks3 8y ago
      "edge to edge" is definitely a stretch. Ha!
• OskarS 8y ago
  There's a point in the press conference where the presenter went "And you can scroll the UI as fast as you want, and it doesn't lag! We have 8 cores in our CPU!" (or something: not literal transcription) and the entire audience clapped. That's about as serious an indictment of the competence of the software development industry as I can imagine. Edit: to clarify: the line is "It's a real PSD... it's over 3 gigs, it's a 157 layers, 12000x12000 pixels, and I'm zooming through it at lightning speed, with no lag". While she's doing this she's scrolling the layer list, which is why I was confused in my earlier statement. Note, btw: when she's zooming, it's not loading the higher resolution in "real time". It takes a second or so for the higher resolution to pop in. So when she's saying "zooming through it at lightning speed", what she's saying is "the UI doesn't hang when I zoom, and the higher resolution pops in quick enough". This should not be an applause line for a device of this power in 2018.
  • saagarjha 8y ago
    I think the app was applying filters to a large image on the fly as she was doing that, so it’s not unimpressive.
  • throwaway427 8y ago
    Was this during the presentation where they were dealing with a huge photoshop file?
    • jaegerpicker 8y ago
      Yes, I'm critical of the presenters that Apple chooses often but I thought that comment made sense in the context, especially coming from someone that was likely more an Artist than a technologist.
      • OskarS 8y ago
        Maybe I'm being harsh, but I really don't think that it should be impressive that, on a device of this power, you can zoom in and out of a photoshop file without the UI lagging. Note, btw, that the pixels aren't updating in real time, it takes a little bit for the higher resolution to pop in when she zooms in (unless they're recently in cache). She's literally talking about not having the UI lag. This shouldn't be an applause line, this should be basic functionality in 2018.
• JosephRedfern 8y ago
  The fixed-width bezel makes it look great. I like it. I don't know why the pencil didn't come with magnetic attachment from the get go, it seems like such a simple change that makes a big difference. The cynic in me thinks that it was deliberately withheld in v1 so that a big deal about its addition could be made in v2.
  • saagarjha 8y ago
    > I don't know why the pencil didn't come with magnetic attachment from the get go, it seems like such a simple change that makes a big difference. The sides of iPad used to be rounded, so it wouldn’t really stick.
    • mediumdeviation 8y ago
      Could have made the Pencil triangular. The new shape fixes yet another annoying ergonomic issue with the original - that it's really hard to hold comfortably for extended period of time. There's a reason pencils are hexagon, and pens have rubber grips.
  • pfranz 8y ago
    Back then Apple didn't have much experience with wireless charging. They also didn't have any place to "dock" the pencil to the iPad, even though other companies were using magnets. So that seemed like an explicit decision at the time to me. I saw a video where artists were demoing the iPad Pro Photoshop. Most of them had experience with the Wacom stylus and criticized that the Apple Pencil was too slim and cramped their hand. The obvious solution would be to add a rubber grip--which wouldn't really work with this storage/charging solution.
• sorahn 8y ago
  Does anyone know if the iPad pro will support a mouse via USB-C or Bluetooth?
  • softinio 8y ago
    this mouse already works with the ipad: https://www.swiftpoint.com/store/swiftpoint-gt-mouse-2/ https://www.swiftpoint.com/store/swiftpoint-gt-mouse-2/ I haven't tried it just came across it the other day
    • saagarjha 8y ago
      How so? iOS doesn’t have a cursor.
    • sorahn 8y ago
      That only works with their vnc software. So, mouse on windows, through remote desktop running on the ipad. The iPad itself still has no concept of a cursor.
      • softinio 8y ago
        Oh I didn't realize that. Thanks for clarifying. Funny good old HN I lost a point for not knowing that though I mentioned I came across and never used this product lol.
  • larkost 8y ago
    No, it will not. The UI Frameworks do not support the concept of a cursor (except for text entry, where it is a bit different than on a computer).
    • sorahn 8y ago
      Something in the simulator supports a mouse, so I wonder if it's down in the code somewhere, just not enabled.
      • 8y ago
• cm2187 8y ago
  I don't see an audio jack in the specs. Am I right to assume the ipad is switching to dongles too?
  • LaSombra 8y ago
    Yes and the dongle will be sold separately. 1 step forward, 2 steps back.
  • saagarjha 8y ago
    No headphone jack IIRC. Not sure if they ship with an adapter in the box.
  • Fiahil 8y ago
    Yes, they apparently dropped the jack here too. They probably did not say anything to avoid the same backslash as the iPhone.
• ekianjo 8y ago
  > Translation: It’s faster than most PC laptops Care to give actual data to substantiate that, Apple? > A12X Bionic delivers 2x faster graphics. (footnote: compared to the previous generation). What does that even mean? The footnote is even more obscure than the marketing piece. "Fast" measures what exactly?
  • dragontamer 8y ago
    > Care to give actual data to substantiate that, Apple? The chip seems like its designed to beat benchmarks honestly. The A12x has an incredibly HUGE L1 data cache of 128kB, but only has an L2 level of 8MB after that (while your typical Desktop / Laptops have 64kB L1 data cache, 256kB or 512kB L2 cache, and then 8MB L3 after that). Anandtech recompiled SPECint2006 for the iPhone A12 processor (and the A12x is a faster version than the A12) and it performed well in benchmarks: (https://www.anandtech.com/show/13392/the-iphone-xs-xs-max-review-unveiling-the-silicon-secrets/4 https://www.anandtech.com/show/13392/the-iphone-xs-xs-max-re...) This includes a suite of tests from perl, to GCC, to h264 (CPU-only) encoding. Now, it isn't "official" SPECint, but Anandtech hopefully used the correct compile flags for the test. (We just gotta hope anandtech did everything correctly to make it an apples-to-apples comparison). > What does that even mean? The footnote is even more obscure than the marketing piece. "Fast" measures what exactly? Fast graphics generally refers to the ability to run graphic benchmarks well. So benchmarks like Ice Storm (OpenGL) would run faster on the iPad A12X. GPUs need to calculate where all those triangles go after affine transformations: there are a lot of matrix-multiplications that go into GPUs. Its a bit of a special case, so this is generally called "graphics performance".
• m_mueller 8y ago
  One thing I was missing from the presentation: Can it finally connect both a keyboard and a pencil, i.e. does it have magnets on both sides?
  • kageneko 8y ago
    I seem to recall seeing a 2 second thing where they had a pencil and keyboard attached at the same time. And I'm pretty sure they mentioned 192 magnets built into the edges of the Pro. I'm hoping this leads to a future where 3rd party accessories snap on and charge.
    • m_mueller 8y ago
      I guess it doubles up as a harddisk eraser then...
  • jungturk 8y ago
    The keyboard looks to attach the the left side in these pics: https://www.apple.com/smart-keyboard/ https://www.apple.com/smart-keyboard/ While "the new Apple Pencil starts charging when you place the flat part on the right side of your iPad Pro." from: https://www.apple.com/apple-pencil/ https://www.apple.com/apple-pencil/ So it looks like the answer is yes.
    • eddieroger 8y ago
      There was a passing screenshot in the video with both used at the same time. This was my biggest question towards the end, and I wish I'd screenshotted when I saw it. But they do look to both work together, and glad the documentation lines up with that.
  • dsabanin 8y ago
    They mentioned that they have magnets all over the thing.
• blauditore 8y ago
  Why is this on HN front?
  • saagarjha 8y ago
    Because iPads are popular products made by a large technology company?
• wishinghand 8y ago
  Finally a mobile device that uses USB-C to charge. I'm glad they fixed the awful UX on charging the pencil. Also stoked there's no notch in the screen, but sad that there's rounded corners. Still no ability to let people make apps for the iPad on the iPad, which I think is truly disappointing. *edit: I just realized it doesn't have a headphone jack and does have a camera bump. Booooooo
  • umeshunni 8y ago
    > Finally a mobile device that uses USB-C to charge. Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but don't all (most) mobile devices use USB-C to charge these days?
    • ghostly_s 8y ago
      If by "all (most)" you mean some, then yes, exactly right.
    • reustle 8y ago
      They're talking specifically about mobile devices from apple.
    • laumars 8y ago
      They do. As do Macbooks too (which is actually rather annoying when you only have two USB-C ports and need to plug other stuff in besides a charger). iPhones, however, are still using their dinky lightning cable. So I'm assuming the GP was talking specifically about iPhones rather than "mobile devices" in the more general sense.
    • wishinghand 8y ago
      Sorry, I meant an Apple mobile device.
      • laumars 8y ago
        I guess that then depends if you’re also not classing MacBooks as mobile devices because Apple does count their laptops when publishing their mobile device sales figures.
• twodayslate 8y ago
  Still waiting on Xcode for the iPad "Pro"
  • Pulcinella 8y ago
    Same. I was hoping we would see that. The Swift Playgrounds app really hasn’t gotten any love[1] since it was first introduced. You can actually import UIKit and the other frameworks and compile them on the iPad but this is pretty much undocumentated. The preview views are tremendously buggy (really the whole app is) and there is all sorts of hidden debug stuff running in the background[2] that slows down performance. Everything has to be in a single file so doing anything moderately complicated is a pain, the editor is buggy and will sometimes highlight just the last three letters of a word, and there is no Interface Builder[3]. I would love a real XCode. [1]There have been new playgrounds added (e.g. “Learn to Code with Swift”) but the app itself really hasn’t been changed at all. The same bugs have been present for years. And they aren’t obscur either. You will run into editor bugs within the first 5 minutes. [2] The debug stuff is to help facilitate the different playgrounds, but doesn’t really provide any benefit to someone coding in a blank file outside of a playground. You can’t turn it off within the app. [3] I know a lot of people don’t like IB, but it’s great for throwing together simple apps quickly. It’s odd that it is absent from the official apple App but Pythonista, an app made by one person, has an visual interface editor.
    • saagarjha 8y ago
      > The Swift Playgrounds app really hasn’t gotten any love[1] since it was first introduced. The UI has been changed slightly. > You can actually import UIKit and the other frameworks and compile them on the iPad but this is pretty much undocumentated. Well, it's UIKit. You can just pull up the documentation at developer.apple.com. > The preview views are tremendously buggy (really the whole app is) and there is all sorts of hidden debug stuff running in the background[2] that slows down performance. The app is very buggy, but the debug stuff cannot be turned off because it's compiled into the code you write. > Everything has to be in a single file so doing anything moderately complicated is a pain No: you can add additional files to the "Sources" folder. This is how Apple's tutorial playgrounds work.
• bendavis381 8y ago
  Can someone more educated on the subject please explain to me what would be required to turn this into a proper development machine? I'm asking about what iOS changes would be needed, rather than opinions about the physical aspects of it like form factor.
  • saagarjha 8y ago
    You can program on an iPad already using interpreted languages such as Python and Lua. And you can SSH into other machines, run Git, and have a text editor already. The main issue with developing on an iPad is that it’s not easy to load unsigned, compiled code on it, and even if you do, there’s not much that the code can do because of the system sandbox.
    • cm2187 8y ago
      I would have thought the main issue would be screen size. Don't developers like large screen real estate, being able to see documents side by side, or the code of your app, a browser rendering it and the debug tools inside the browser, and stackoverflow on the side?
      • LyndsySimon 8y ago
        It depends, mostly on preference, but also eyesight (and therefore, age). My main dev machine is a 12” MBP. I have external monitors, but do quite a bit of work even on my 9.6” iPad. I spend 9% of my time in a terminal anyhow, and have good eyesight.
      • saagarjha 8y ago
        The parent comment asked to put aside hardware issues, so I left this out.
  • yurishimo 8y ago
    Depending on your environment you may be able to do it now. The rise of cloud coding platforms means that coding on an iPad is pretty useable as long as your deployment process works with it.
• deltron3030 8y ago
  Wouldn't it make sense to use the iPad Pro as eGPU and second monitor for a MacBook Pro/Air?
  • alexktz 8y ago
    Duet display does this really well with my current iPad from a MBP.
• chinesegoldfarm 8y ago
  "A12X Bionic is the smartest, most powerful chip we’ve ever made. It has the Neural Engine, which runs five trillion operations per second" but can it mine?
• dexterbt1 8y ago
  Is this running macOS, 'coz I'm seeing a dock!
  • saagarjha 8y ago
    iOS has had a dock since iOS 11.
    • eddieroger 8y ago
      iPhoneOS has had a dock since version 1. They've just expanded what it can do. And they used to even push that iOS and OSX (at the time) shared the same base, but they've backed off that pretty hard despite it remaining true - Darwin underneath.
      • saagarjha 8y ago
        Ok, correction: a Dock with a large number of apps in it.
• lostgame 8y ago
  To quote the princess bride: 'You keep using that word ['pro.']. I don't think you know what it means.' Why on earth does Apple have the audacity to call it an 'iPad Pro', if I can't run any of Apple's actually 'pro' software on it? Adobe beat Apple to actually getting the first piece of real software on the iPad, with Photoshop. There's two applications in particular, that, beyond xCode and iOS development, keep me locked in the Apple ecosystem and have for more than 15 years. 'Final Cut Pro' and 'Logic Pro'. The day we actually see Apple's own 'pro' software on an iPad is the day we can call it a 'pro' device. It's literally just a larger version of the iPad with a pencil. Much less the fact that it'd be great if we could actually develop on the thing...but that's a pipe dream. Expecting Apple will put it's pro software on it's pro device...well, I guess it would be almost as an extreme request as maybe their flagship phone and flagship computer be able to connect to each other out of the box? I'm confused as to why we've got USB-C in this new iPad Pro and not in the iPhones they released not a month ago. Where is the consistency? Where is the logic? (no pun intended) It was like in 2017 when they decided to label a laptop a 'pro' unit and soldered a non-upgradeable paltry 16GB of RAM to the board and threw literally a colourful toy in where our actual keyboard buttons used to be. Or the fact that we've been promised a new Mac 'Pro' and are still stuck with the same poorly-received and certainly-not-pro garbage can we've had for years. Even the new Mac Mini is more powerful than the 'Mac Pro'. I'm a seriously 'pro' user of Macs. I have been for a decade and a half. And I'm tired of them using that word. Can they just stop?
• reustle 8y ago
  I really loved my iPad Pro, but the point really holding it back from replacing my laptop is the browser. It's a beautiful retina 12.9" screen, but is forced to use the mobile Safari rendering engine. Give me a full browser, or let Chrome do it. What a painful limitation for a great potential daily-driver.
• davemp 8y ago
  It's such a shame that there's no thunderbolt 3 in the iPad Pro. I would love to ditch my MBP to just plug an iPad into a TB3 monitor and get a mouse, keyboard, drawing tablet, and charging with 1 wire. I can get close to that with a MBP. The only downsides are a MBP is heavier for mobile use and I'd have to buy an expensive tablet.
  • reustle 8y ago
    Do iPads support mouse (trackpads) yet? That would be huge.
    • figers 8y ago
      Exactly this is needed as well as being able to run full XCode and VS Code
    • davemp 8y ago
      Nope. Apple would need to do a pretty decent amount of work on iOS to support desktop like behavior. I'm not sure if there's much sales incentive either. Which is a shame because Apple got where it is by pushing the best possible user experiences. Not blind sales maximization.
      • akhilcacharya 8y ago
        Am I going crazy? Didn't they support mice pointers when the iPad originally launched?
        • djrogers 8y ago
          No, mice were never supported.
        • jannes 8y ago
          Maybe you're thinking of the iOS Simulator on macOS?
        • mattkevan 8y ago
• reacharavindh 8y ago
  Do you all use iPad for serious work? Curious what apps you use? Other than Apple Notes(with Apple Pencil), and watching NetFlix, I dont make good use of it. I'd love to get some recommendation for useful apps to try...
  • macintux 8y ago
    The key feature that drove me to buy the 12.9" iPad Pro last year was the ability to read and mark up PDFs without having to constantly zoom/move it around. Old eyes. I also use it to create routes for road trips for my Jeep club: it's really nice to have my GPS app and a satellite view side by side as I look for interesting back roads. In short: I bought a Ferrari and use it like a Civic.
    • alexktz 8y ago
      Would you mind elaborating a little on your workflow / apps used here please?
      • macintux 8y ago
        There's really not much to it. I keep computer science/math-related PDFs in Dropbox, copy them to GoodReader (I've started experimenting a bit with other PDF apps, but GoodReader has been my go to for years now), and occasionally use Apple Pencil to mark them up as I read them. I don't save them back to Dropbox for future review; GoodReader is effectively its own island in that regard. For GPS, I use Gaia GPS to create routes, often with Apple Maps and/or Google Maps running in split screen. If you have specific questions, I can address them, but none of it is particularly formal.
  • bdcravens 8y ago
    I've used it at conferences and occasionally out and about when I need a machine with access to tools (browser, Slack, etc) but I know I won't be doing any development.
  • Exuma 8y ago
    It's great in the creative industry (like painting) where you need to look at reference photos. I leave it on my desk to look at. Anything cheaper would do I suppose, but I prefer to go all out :p
• jiaweihli 8y ago
  I bought an iPad Pro (12.9") in mid 2017, and am already seeing significant slowdown. With 4-5 apps open, it lags when trying to scroll the home screen. I frequently need to kill open apps by going into the app switcher. When I bought a new iPhone, the difference was night and day. I regularly leave 30+ apps open without worrying about lag. Not sure why the iPad Pro struggles so much with multitasking, but it's kind of turned me off from buying another.
  • macintux 8y ago
    You might try a fresh install. I have the same iPad, and haven't seen behavior like that.
  • gehsty 8y ago
    I bought one when it first came out I 2015 and it is still running fine.. Maybe reinstall or check the battery? Does it discharge quicker than it should?
  • jaegerpicker 8y ago
    I have the 2nd gen iPad Pro (2017) and I haven't seen this kind of behavior. Maybe time of a fresh install, you shouldn't need to do that but sometimes it helps.
  • saagarjha 8y ago
    > I frequently need to kill open apps by going into the app switcher. This doesn't help most of the time.
• Pulcinella 8y ago
  This is a repost of: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18338048 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18338048 I was hoping we would see XCode for the iPad. The Swift Playgrounds app really does not cut it.The Swift Playgrounds app really hasn’t gotten any love[1] since it was first introduced. You can actually import UIKit and the other frameworks and compile them on the iPad but this is pretty much undocumentated. The preview views are tremendously buggy (really the whole app is) and there is all sorts of hidden debug stuff running in the background[2] that slows down performance. Everything has to be in a single file so doing anything moderately complicated is a pain, the editor is buggy and will sometimes highlight just the last three letters of a word, and there is no Interface Builder[3]. I would love a real XCode. [1]There have been new playgrounds added (e.g. “Learn to Code with Swift”) but the app itself really hasn’t been changed at all. The same bugs have been present for years. And they aren’t obscur either. You will run into editor bugs within the first 5 minutes. [2] The debug stuff is to help facilitate the different playgrounds, but doesn’t really provide any benefit to someone coding in a blank file outside of a playground. You can’t turn it off within the app. [3] I know a lot of people don’t like IB, but it’s great for throwing together simple apps quickly. It’s odd that it is absent from the official apple App but Pythonista, an app made by one person, has an visual interface editor.
  • neolefty 8y ago
    I can't imagine XCode could run in the RAM available on an iPad — maybe rework it to do the heavy lifting in the cloud?
    • saagarjha 8y ago
      iPad Pro has 4 GB of RAM. There are Macs with that much RAM that can run Xcode.
      • metafizikal 8y ago
        But iOS doesn't have a concept of swap like a traditional PC OS like macOS or Windows does, does it?
• gnicholas 8y ago
  The 11" cellular model weighs the same as the 11" wifi model. But the 12.9" cellular model weighs 2 grams more than the 12.9" wifi model. Anyone know why this would be? Obviously not a big deal — just curiosity.
  • omribahumi 8y ago
    Different antenna perhaps?
  • eddieroger 8y ago
    While i have no way of actually knowing, my assumption is battery. They have historically juiced up the battery on cellular models.
    • djrogers 8y ago
      No, iPad batteries have always been the same on all models. Maybe you’re thinking of the watch?
• yodon 8y ago
  Wishing the iPad mini form factor would get some love, or at least a version that works with the Pencil
• maverick2007 8y ago
  I'm curious whether you can actually import RAW photos into this iPad. According to [1], importing huge (42 Megapixel) RAW files into the last gen iPad Pro was pretty much unusable. I can definitely see myself making this my travel laptop, replacing my 2013 Macbook Air if I could connect my camera, import all of my photos for the day, maybe do some light editing and then export them to an external hard drive. [1] https://paulstamatiou.com/made-on-an-ipad-pro/#photo-editing https://paulstamatiou.com/made-on-an-ipad-pro/#photo-editing
  • mikeryan 8y ago
    A lot of stuff is moving to HEIC as an intermediary high quality format between JPEG and RAW. Though that being said between this and Photoshop on the iPad I'd assume that they're looking to support large RAW files for just this use case. Creative graphical applications seems to be a sweet spot for this kind of device.
  • nikhizzle 8y ago
    Yes, on IOS 12 I regularly import very large RAW photos on my first generation iPad Pro. The RAW importing workflow is finally as good as the JPG, meaning it actually processes RAW in iOS photos. I'll also add that in some ways, such as editing levels, the iPad and my phone seem faster than a MacBook Pro. Whether this boils down to specialized hardware, more efficient software or something else I do not know. I'll also add that the older iPad Pro hardware often goes on fire sale, and may do so more often now.
    • beezischillin 8y ago
      Unfortunately all the windows and mac versions of Adobe applications are extremely slow and bloated. Using Draw on the first gen iPad Pro to draw a portrait or something works extremely well and then saving that and importing it onto Illustrator on the mac is a tragedy, for example.
    • xd1936 8y ago
      But you still have to import it into Photos first, then jump to the app that you actually want to work in? I wish Apple would open up some of these APIs so that apps like Photoshop could actually interact with the filesystem.
• post_break 8y ago
  This is a new for apple. My iPad Pro 10.5 is continuing to appreciate, instead of depreciate. They keep raising the price. Fist from $879 to $899. Now it's $929. What is going on at Apple where older products cost more? https://imgur.com/a/JB7fR4a https://imgur.com/a/JB7fR4a
  • csomar 8y ago
    They have the same name but are you sure they are the same spec?
    • post_break 8y ago
      They are exactly the same.
  • tonyedgecombe 8y ago
    Increase in costs due to tariffs on Chinese imports?
• appleiigs 8y ago
  Is that a camera bump? So it doesn't lie flat on the table?
  • saagarjha 8y ago
    The camera does protrude from the back, yes.
• s3r3nity 8y ago
  I'm really impressed that they made a number of environmental friendly additions, though they haven't been played up as much: - LED display is mercury-free - No arsenic - No BFR or PVC etc.
  • jonknee 8y ago
    This is unchanged from the previous model (and probably model before that, Apple has been at it a while).
  • zeroname 8y ago
    LED-backlit displays have always been mercury-free, it's the "ancient" CFL-backlit displays that needed mercury.
  • saagarjha 8y ago
    This has been true of most of Apple's products for years. Generally they have a slide that summarizes this after every product announcement.
• simias 8y ago
  This image showcasing the thinness of the iPad looks perfectly flat: https://www.apple.com/v/ipad-pro/p/images/overview/portable__gkha84qrj4ii_medium.jpg https://www.apple.com/v/ipad-pro/p/images/overview/portable_... However in the first image showing the iPad from the side there's a clear bulge, I'm assuming for the camera: https://www.apple.com/v/ipad-pro/p/images/overview/hero__b2q87exx6cfm_medium.jpg https://www.apple.com/v/ipad-pro/p/images/overview/hero__b2q... So is it flat or not? It might seem like a small nitpick but I hate this trend of having a bulge for the camera just so that you can say that the rest of the assembly is like 2mm thinner. Who cares? Now you have something that looks and feels worse and you can't put it flat on its back. I hope they at least engineered it in a way that makes the tablet stable when lying down on a flat surface instead of wobbling on the pivot of the camera bulge. EDIT: Actually I just noticed that the bulge seems to be here in the first image, it's just hidden in the palm of the hand. Good job Apple marketers, bad job apple designers.
  • fredley 8y ago
    See also: any phone with a notch where the notch conveniently hides in a portion of the wallpaper/displayed promo oil image that everyone's using that is black: https://i.imgur.com/zvSr8pf.png https://i.imgur.com/zvSr8pf.png
• eecc 8y ago
  I expect this iteration of Macbook Airs to be the last one. When the time for the next refresh comes, Apple will have migrated their portable line to these iPad convertibles.
• propaddu 8y ago
  That camera bulge! I need a new iPad pro but that really makes me think twice if I should get the older version (and save some money too). I'm also really unhappy about needing a dongle to connect my headphones. I use my headphones with my iPad daily. I'm also not too happy about needing two chargers, one for my phone and one for my iPad.
• slg 8y ago
  Who are the people out there that use the rear facing camera of a 13 inch tablet enough to justify that camera bump? It isn't unusual for Apple to make unpopular design choices, but you at least can usually see the logic in their decisions. I can't fathom the reasons behind this one.
  • aero142 8y ago
    By my count, everyone's parents over the age of 50.
    • ngngngng 8y ago
      My mom still carries around a terrible 10 year old point and shoot because I can't convince her that her iphone camera is far superior.
• hartator 8y ago
  I wish so much we can run MacOS on those.
  • jrochkind1 8y ago
    I suspect the future is the opposite of your wish, that eventually there will only be iOS and no more MacOS.
• jordache 8y ago
  I see it still has the stupid iOS home page where there are just 5 icons spread out horizontally when the iPad is in landscape orientation. The new apple pencil is interesting. Now without the seamless round body, I wonder if the tip will wear out faster, given user will now always hold it the same way.
• jrochkind1 8y ago
  How long til they stop selling laptops or developing MacOS (as opposed to iOS), ya think?
  • collinf 8y ago
    I would have to imagine that they have a huge market share of Developer laptops. Unless they are willing to jeopardize all of that or integrate developer first productivity into a tablet which nobody has done yet, MacOS will stay.
    • jrochkind1 8y ago
      How much revenue/profit do you think they get from that (possibly, imagined) huge market share? Compared to iOS? I guess that is something we could research. This isn't profit/revenue, but some brief googling suggests 77 million iOS devices shipped in Q1 2018, and 5 million MacOS devices in the same quarter. It seems clear that devices like this one announced are at least intended to capture some of the previous market for MacOS laptops as well. Market share doesn't mean much if the market isn't contributing much to their bottom line, and/or has an expense to produce out of line with it's revenue/profit. Ah, here we go: "The Mac's Waning Relevance to Apple" https://www.statista.com/chart/8817/mac-sales-as-a-percentage-of-apples-revenue/ https://www.statista.com/chart/8817/mac-sales-as-a-percentag... I think releases like OP will accelerate this trend further.
• dschuetz 8y ago
  I don't want the thinnest iPad of all times, or "2x faster graphics", I want same frickin' device with at least twice as long battery life!
  • anotheryou 8y ago
    If there was the demand for it it would be easy to make a battery pack that mirrors the size and fits on the back, no? Might just block the usb-c, but I thank that would be fine. If you need tho port you can run from the internal battery for a while or get an adapter with power-through for a more permanent setup
• satysin 8y ago
  Finally the beginning of the end for the Lightning port! Hopefully next years iPhone will be USB-C as well.
• tempodox 8y ago
  How do I connect my headphone cable to this?
  • propaddu 8y ago
    Dongle!
• surds 8y ago
  I had to go and see what all the scrolling fuss was about. That sideways scroll is so irritating, and just when you (hopefully) start getting used to it, it starts scrolling down. :facepalm:
• mixmastamyk 8y ago
  Slightly wider aspect ratio... 1.43 close to the square root of 2, isn't that new for iPads? They were 4:3 for a while. One of the things I think this industry gets backwards is aspect ratios. I primarily use my tablet to watch movies/tv and 99% of them are squarish. I primarily use my laptop to work, and almost all of them are now 16:9. PCs anyway.
• RubberShoes 8y ago
  To me, the shift to USB-C signifies a fundamental change in how Apple is approaching the iPad and computing going forward. Those stupid "what's a computer" ads make a little more sense. With USB-C, developers will support whatever I/O standards they need to in iOS, and the ecosystem of monitors, keyboards, and peripherals we all bought for our laptops/desktops will now begin to work with iOS too. This feature alone grows iOS into a much more powerful OS. By this logic, it's pretty clear Apple is killing macOS x86 dependency (and macOS itself) in two ways. 1. Shifting compute intensive workloads to A level chips. This started with the small stuff around "security" and ApplePay but today the video encode/decode functionality in the T2 is a huge leap. This will extend into graphics next year (thank god cause fuck Intel's integrated graphics) with APIs like Metal and going forward almost anything I/O, Display, and every function outside of the CPU. #2 strategy is the iPad - by offering a compelling device that has all the features and capability of laptops without 2 decades of baggage. We've all been so worried of the convergence of iOS and macOS, but after today I don't see a macOS future. Sure it will move to Apple's ARM chips, it will last another decade, but the shovel is out of the shed, it's called the T2. (Jailbreakers, we need you)
  • michaelmrose 8y ago
    Jailbreaking will never be mainstream when people worry about the warranty on their 1k-2k+ devices. If you want people to own their own devices you will have to write it into law presumably in a more consumer friendly jurisdiction than the US which cares about business first last and only.
    • selectodude 8y ago
      Jailbreaking has never violated the warranty. Apple just doesn’t support it so they won’t service your device until you update it to the latest software, which is completely reasonable.
      • TeMPOraL 8y ago
        I.e. violates half of your warranty, because any but the most obviously mechanical problem can be blamed on messing with software.
• djhworld 8y ago
  This page makes it sound like the Apple Pencil and the foldable keyboard come in the box, when in fact they are sold separately and are very expensive. So on top of your £769 for the entry level 'Pro, the Pencil is an extra £119 and keyboard is £179, topping the whole package to £1047. Even more if you go for the 12" model.
  • codezero 8y ago
    People in the market for a device of this price are not usually price sensitive, especially to peripherals, so this isn't much of a surprise. Also, I use an iPad Pro without a keyboard or pencil, so I saved a good 300 clams, and I am really happy with the rest of what I got.
  • askafriend 8y ago
    You forget that the iPad Pro also has a full digitizer on it. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1408960-REG/wacom_dth1620ak0_dth1620ak0_cintiq_pro_16_dark.html?ap=y&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_YPF67Wv3gIVhNlkCh0v_wCXEAQYASABEgJNovD_BwE&smp=y https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1408960-REG/wacom_dth... What are your thoughts on this Wacom Cintiq Pro? Do you think this is too expensive? A lot of designers I know are replacing that with an iPad Pro. For many, the iPad is a much more flexible tool AND cheaper AND more powerful. The Cintiq still has it's place and for people that very specifically need it, it's useful. But many are finding that an iPad Pro is a better tool for them. So that's the pricing perspective you need to understand the iPad Pro.
    • djhworld 8y ago
      I was commenting more on the fact that the pencil and keyboard are sold separately, even though they're pictured extensively on the information page about the iPad Pro It gave me the impression they were included in the box
• michaelmrose 8y ago
  "iPad Pro faster than most PC laptops" As shown with keyboard and pencil, the apple care without which you will pay out the rear to replace the battery god forbid you drop it a TB of storage and cellular capability you are looking at around $2500. The average pc laptop costs what $700 and is probably at that 1-3 years old, not exactly a compelling argument to spend thousands of dollars and replace the laptop with a tablet.
• gdubs 8y ago
  As a heavy iPad Pro user, the number one thing I’m looking forward to is magnetic pencil charging. With kids around, the old way of sticking it into lightening port is just asking for trouble — and I never have the dongle around for cable charging when I needed it. The grooved shape of the pencil looks like an ergonomic improvement.
• gigatexal 8y ago
  I think I will buy one of these, a new Mac mini and an MacBook Air. It was a successful event I think.
• Reason077 8y ago
  Do the new iPads all have giant sticking-out camera lenses in one corner? It's already bad enough that my iPhone can't sit flat on a table because of the camera lens. It would be super annoying in an iPad!
• theduro 8y ago
  Why none of the top comments on a site called Hacker News are about the fact that this is far from anything that could be used for software development surprises me. Only feasible way to use this for dev would be using a cloud IDE, since I have no access to the OS or ability to install dependencies. I love the idea of the iPad becoming something that could replace a laptop, but for me I wait for the day when I can at the very least have sandbox access to the filesystem, and OS kernel to be able to set it up for local development. Why Apple continues to refuse support for BSD Jails or the sort confuses me.
  • deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  • pier25 8y ago
    I agree. Personally I think Chrome OS will be so much better for developers once Google gets all the wrinkles ironed for Linux support.
  • mnem 8y ago
    While my laptop was away getting fixed, I used an iPad Pro, Textastic and a linux instance on Digital Ocean to do a reasonable amount of Rust development. I was surprised how well it worked.
    • odonnellryan 8y ago
      For Nomads it is actually a good way to work, too, because it is more secure for your clients in a way.
  • sjroot 8y ago
    I agree that Apple needs to improve developer experience on the iPad. However, regarding the file system access: Apple already has a Files app that handles this very well (introduced with iOS 11).
  • thedaemon 8y ago
    Not all of us are developers. I'm a 3d artists who writes some scripts. "A computer hacker is any skilled computer expert that uses their technical knowledge to overcome a problem." About the BSD jails, it's probably to keep it simple for most of their user base? Power users aren't really their thing anymore. Although I bought a last generation iPad Pro with Pencil for drawing / some 2d animation. I like it better than Wacom now.
• singularity2001 8y ago
  what is the max resolution of the external display? also in the video editing app shown in the keynote the external display hides the control elements, which is very nice. exposed api, or internal apple magic?
• singularity2001 8y ago
  handwriting recognition Is anyone using an iPad pro missing in-place handwriting recognition? as in the old Samsung tablets where you could annotate and write everywhere?
• pier25 8y ago
  The hardware is amazing and for drawing/art is one of the best devices out there, but for many tasks (such as programming) it's basically useless.
• bitrrrate 8y ago
  Is it just me or are Apple's chips and architecture just blowing anything Intel in the Macbooks (Pro, Air, etc) out of the water? As an aside this iPad Pro will replace our home computer in the next month. It has as many USB-C ports as my 2016 Macbook, a better screen and a way better graphics card. Plus the ability to use it with or without a keyboard is amazing.
• j45 8y ago
  Can I add a mouse yet? The what's a computer ads are disingenuous because Apple needs to sell computers and a tablet.
• j45 8y ago
  Can I add a mouse yet? The "what's a computer" ads are disingenuous because Apple needs to sell computers and a tablet.
• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• helipad 8y ago
  The base 12-inch model is $999. The Pencil ($129) and Smart Keyboard Folio ($199) are not included. At $1,327, how does it compare specs-wise with the new 13" MacBook Air?
• ChuckMcM 8y ago
  I found the announcement an interesting mix, more like the original iPad where there is potential in the hardware that isn't available in the software. The increasingly similar optics to the Surface Pro are amusing as well, design students would do well to read the coverage of these two systems from introduction to the present day. A lot to be learned there in terms of understanding how systems like these evolve. I am bummed that the pencil isn't compatible and while you get better recharging and 'tap to change tools' and some tilt and pressure sensitivity, but how much? Actual specs seem to be elusive.
• __alias 8y ago
  I've never been upset enough from something I've read in a HN article to comment about it, but the audacity to talk about intuitive design and then fucking make my vertical scroll wheel scroll the page horizontally is outrageous.
• _hardwaregeek 8y ago
  FaceID makes a lot of sense for the iPad, arguably more than the iPhone. What I like about my TouchID is being able to unlock my phone in my pocket or as I'm sliding it out. I'm never going to do that with an iPad.
• dvcrn 8y ago
  For me this was magical. I love the smaller 12.9”. The size seems just right and I’m sure that’s the one I’ll be getting to replace my 15” MBP for everything portable like travel. This looks like the perfect tablet and I’m not sure what else they could do to make it better going forward
• megaman8 8y ago
  Sure it looks cool now, but how long until they nerf it and break it like they did the Ipad 1. I can't even use the app store anymore on my ipad1 because apple broke it. I'm certainly not going to buy this anytime soon.
• mark_l_watson 8y ago
  Away from work, I use my iPad for most things and only use my laptop for writing code. As famous hacker Kevin Mitnick says in his new book “The Art of Invisibility”, using locked down devices like iPads and Chromebooks provides the most safety. I like the jump to USB-C and I am curious what the ‘docking’ experience is when the new iPad Pro is plugged into a large USB-C compatible monitor. This might make the developer experience very good and open the door to making something like the new iPad Pro in the future be the only computing device required. Add LTE and a data plan for mobility and traveling lite.
• taejavu 8y ago
  Does anyone know if these new models have 120Hz displays? I couldn't find any mention in the tech specs.
  • thirdsun 8y ago
    They do. Apple calls this technology ProMotion and it’s listed in the specs.
• whatever1 8y ago
  Does Apple plan to support even a proper web browser?
• gcb0 8y ago
  they could have called it the iSurface. their feature page is a 1:1 match to Microsoft 's surface page. Even down to the scree x body ratio (which is actually larger on the surface 4). And having face unlock only (no fingerprint).
• 7472697374616E 8y ago
  Buuuut no AirPower...
• nightfly 8y ago
  Vertical scrolling on a webpage should NEVER mean horizontal scrolling. T_T
  • cyberferret 8y ago
    That got me too. There is a real disconnect when I am swiping down on my magic mouse and the page is going sideways. They broke their own HIG with this one...
• imlina 8y ago
  That horizontal scroll web page was the most jarring thing my brain has done in a while.
• looneysquash 8y ago
  If only it ran macOS.
• jgamman 8y ago
  It's all about the UX right? I scroll down on my mbp laptop and the @#$@#$ pictures move to the right...
• exodust 8y ago
  Still can't plug in an external USB hard drive? That's a deal-breaker. Any "pro" device needs to allow wired external storage and basic access to files for transferring to and from storage devices. That's just common sense. To get my video files and large files, for example from my computer to the iPad, I need to go through iTunes or some annoying and slow wi-fi process, which is needlessly limiting. In regards to the keynote, the constant applause and cheers from the audience is back, worse than ever. Why would the audience applaud "amount of units sold worldwide"? Just because Tim Cook ramps up his voice and prompts for applause at every bullet point in his powerpoint, doesn't mean the audience should oblige like well-behaved school children.
• King-Aaron 8y ago
  I still hold my doubts that this could even nearly replace a traditional machine in a real professional's workflow. If anyone has real-world performance comparisons, I'd be interested to see... But the iPads still feel like an expensive toy to me.
• ksec 8y ago
  PC Gaming has been the driving force behind recent PC Shipment improvement. And I see iPad Pro, with a Magic Keyboard and Mouse as opportunity that could finally disrupt the PC Gaming business. Or Gaming that requires Keyboard and mouse. PUBG, C&C, Civ, Diablo, Online Gaming. The iPad Pro could now run all these with an external monitor. Basically it is Apple and iOS that is limiting the iPad Pro Usage. Give me a BT 5.0 Keyboard and Mouse, along with a Sublime Editor I could even replace my MacBook Pro.
• type0 8y ago
  Astonishing, mainly I just can't believe they used horizontal scrolling on their page. UX? Nope.
• Michaelmiller 8y ago
  I know a real professional hacker who has worked for me once in this past month. He is very good at hacking. He offers legit services such as clearing of bad records online without it being traced backed to you, he clones phones, hacks facebook ,instagram, whatsapp, emails, twitter, bank accounts,FIXES CREDIT REPORTS, tracks calls. He also helps to retrieve accounts that have been taken by hackers. His charges are affordable, reliable, 100% safe. Contact him via address below plus you can also meet him if you are in the state. EMAIL: Richardcyberghost at Gmail Dot com TEXT, CALL or WHATSAP HIM +1 937-551-7074 Tell him I referred you. You can also meet him if you are in the state cos he’s the only Ethical hacker with guarantee that will provide result.