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Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

271 points by BobbyVsTheDevil 8y ago

tathougies 8y ago
While we're at it, let's follow the jubilee calendar as well! EDIT: downvotes?
sehugg 8y ago
How about we just work fewer/flexible hours, and spend our spare time on secular pursuits if we so choose?
- tathougies 8y ago
  Read the article...
vinceguidry 8y ago
> But observing this weekly day of rest can actually be a radical act. Indeed, what makes it so obsolete and impractical is precisely what makes it so dangerous. It was a radical act when introduced. The very religion that inspired it was radical and counter-intuitive. It's fun to see people rediscover that every few years. edit: the article was way too informed about religious history to be anything other than a snow job by a religious society. Indeed, at the bottom it states that the article was funded by the Templeton Religion Trust.
justinpombrio 8y ago
Another article in favor of the Sabbath: http://benjaminrosshoffman.com/sabbath-hard-and-go-home/ http://benjaminrosshoffman.com/sabbath-hard-and-go-home/
rgbrenner 8y ago
a pharaonic economy driven by anxiety begets violence, dishonesty, jealousy, theft, the commodification of sex and familial alienation. None of these had a place in the Torahic economy, which was driven not by anxiety but by wholeness, enoughness. In such a society, there was no need to murder, covet, lie, commit adultery or dishonour one’s parents. Lol. All of that existed in the torahic economy. It never ceases to amaze me at the things people will forget to idealize the past. And from a history professor no less. But on the point of the article: I'm against all laws that force others to participate in your religion, including preventing people from working on days your religion says are sacred. It's anti-freedom and pro-religion... if you want to force your religion on others, go live in a theocracy.
- framebit 8y ago
  He's not idealizing the past. Keep reading: "It is unknown if these radical commandments were ever followed to the letter." The "Torahic economy" as referenced by the author in this context is clearly the _idea_ of an economy that does follow the ideals of the Torah. The way things played out in reality could more accurately be referenced as the "Hebrew economy" or something like that.
  - rgbrenner 8y ago
    If that was his intention (I don't agree), then it is not unknown. It is known they were not followed. If a torahic economy is only an idea... then why use it as an example at all. We know that's not how it played out in practice.. He holds the current economy to reality, but the torahic economy only to an idea. We aren't striving for violence and murder either... they exist, just like they would exist in a torahic economy too.
- snapit 8y ago
  I don't believe this author is advocating forcing religion. He is simply saying that there is less freedom in the current system which effectively forces/expects over work and extended hours. This is an attempt to pull the pendulum back a bit.. which we can all agree is helpful.
- adrianmonk 8y ago
  > But on the point of the article: I'm against all laws that force others to participate in your religion I think you are reading something into the article that is not there. It starts off with a little background wherein we learn that the author's first exposure to strict observation of the Sabbath was when his dad was hired because their family was not Jewish. I don't think it's likely he wants to force "his" religion on others considering it's not even his religion. It also says, "It is time for us, whatever our religious beliefs, to see the Sabbatarian laws ... as the liberatory statements they were meant to be." Two interesting things about that sentence: (1) the "whatever our religious beliefs" and (2) the shift from "laws" to "statements". One of the themes of the article was that the sabbath idea was probably incorporated into the religion because it was founded by former slaves. I think that's significant. Two different ways to view the ideas contained within a religion are (1) they originate from god and are revealed to humans and (2) they originate from man as cultural elements and get promoted to religion. The first (downward flow of ideas) is more of an insider, true believer way of looking at it, and the second (upward) is more of an outsider, religions-are-just-part-of-culture view. This article definitely gave me the impression that the author leans more toward the second, which in turn suggests they see the idea as separable from religion.
jiveturkey 8y ago
I'm in. I don't roll on Shabbos!
dghughes 8y ago
The result will be the same whether it's called sabbath or "the right to disconnect". Wages have stagnated and organizations are trying to squeeze more work out of each worker. All that while simultaneously reducing the organization's full-time staff or just cut the total amount of employees. At some point people will snap or breakdown from working two 12 hour shift jobs each day. I'm joking obviously but it seems like that's what people have to work just to barely survive.
- howard941 8y ago
  Agreed. And job insecurity is still a thing so even those who aren't overtly required to do so put in more than the expected amount to help reduce the likelihood they'll be in the discard pile the next time cost cutting measures come around.
fenwick67 8y ago
"The Sabbath’s radicalism should be no surprise given the fact that it originated among a community of former slaves" Just a reminder to readers, there is no historical evidence for the mass jewish enslavement by egyptians as described in the torah.
- jeffdavis 8y ago
  Isn't pretty much any historical text also historical evidence? Maybe you mean archeological evidence, or corroberating historical evidence?
  - rgbrenner 8y ago
    Isn't pretty much any historical text also historical evidence? No. People make up stories. Obviously. Harry potter isn't historical evidence of the magical abilities of past humans.
    - jeffdavis 8y ago
      People can make up stories on the witness stand, too. Testimony is still evidence, it just that it needs to be weighed in context by a jury (along with all the other evidence). In the future, when humans just upload data directly to brains, and nobody remembers what a school is, then Harry Potter absolutely could be used as historical evidence that schools existed and that children went to them. The fantastical bit about learning to be a wizard may be discarded by other evidence (or lack thereof).
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - rgbrenner 8y ago
        If they don't know what a school is, how would they know that Harry Potter is accurate? Sewers are real. Turtles are real. Is Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles real? The other evidence for a school must be conclusive. Only from that evidence could you then say Harry Potter's schools were real. It's the other evidence that is evidence. Not harry potter. Anything in Harry Potter not proven by something else, must be assumed to be fantasy.
DanAndersen 8y ago
The article raises good points about the need for formal societal taboos against constant work. The ideal (often violated, though) in our modern society of the "40-hour week" as a reasonable amount is one of them. Having regular times for contemplation and separation from the bustle of the world is important. The gig economy has dangers in it. There's a liberating aspect in that people "can choose their own hours," but then that means that they have to work more to keep up with someone else who is working a few extra hours to get ahead in their own lives. It seems like the world of labor has a tragedy of the commons aspect to it, where it's in everyone's immediate individual interest to work just a little bit longer, but the end result is that everyone has to work more for the same reward. A bit like the two-income trap: some benefits, some liberation, but there's also a cost. I do wish, though, that the article fully grappled with the issue of the 'shabbos goy.' It praises the virtues of having everyone able to participate in a time of separation from work, but then there's this practice where the conveniences of life are still indulged in by having an outsider labor for you.
- emodendroket 8y ago
  > I do wish, though, that the article fully grappled with the issue of the 'shabbos goy.' It praises the virtues of having everyone able to participate in a time of separation from work, but then there's this practice where the conveniences of life are still indulged in by having an outsider labor for you. I'd say the traditional Christian concept of the sabbath is looser and doesn't really require this kind of thing. In effect I'd say that it is an attitude more concerned with the spirit and less with the letter of the law (so, for instance, I don't think turning on the light is an issue, and putting money on the table for someone to take isn't actually adhering to the prohibition on commerce).
  - ido 8y ago
    In effect I'd say that it is an attitude more concerned with the spirit and less with the letter of the law (so, for instance, I don't think turning on the light is an issue, and putting money on the table for someone to take isn't actually adhering to the prohibition on commerce). That's something that generally rubs me the wrong way about a lot of things with orthodox jewish practices (especially the ultra orthodox) - there is so much effort trying to find loopholes in the rules, instead of adhering to their spirit instead.
TulliusCicero 8y ago
Kind of have this in Germany, where many businesses are prohibited from being open on Sunday. For example, grocery stores can't be open unless they're at a central train station or airport. In practice, to me it just feels really annoying and limiting. Means I basically have to plan any larger shopping trips for Saturday, even if that doesn't work well for my schedule. I get that they want to make sure workers have enough time off, but you could mandate days off for each worker without banning Sunday for everyone. Not to mention that it being Sunday very obviously favors Christianity over other religions that might have a different holy day. The integration of church and state here turned out to be more than expected.
- noja 8y ago
  Are you German? If not, what do the Germans think of this?
  - TulliusCicero 8y ago
    Nope, just moved here a couple years ago from the states. Most people I know here seem to think it's annoying, but I work at Google, so we got people from all over, I don't think Germans are even a majority of the devs. edit: apparently 61% of Germans think stores should be able to decide themselves whether to open on Sundays: http://m.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/service/einzelhandel-mehrheit-will-mehr-sonntagsoeffnungszeiten-a-1150667.html http://m.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/service/einzelhandel-mehrheit...
    - detaro 8y ago
      I'd be curious if and how those numbers change when it is instead "companies should be able to decide themselves if they are open on Sundays". Anecdotally, that question complicates it for quite a few people, despite probably being the fairer change.
      - blattimwind 8y ago
        It's of course great when people work for you on your day off. Unsurprising, though markedly short-sighted.
jeffdavis 8y ago
I wonder how our concepts of work and rest have changed over time? Is tending to your home, family, or garden considered work?
- avip 8y ago
  Well for Jews observing Shabbas that is answered in more details than you would possibly like to know...
  - emodendroket 8y ago
    True, but even the ancients of other cultures largely considered them odd.
cdoxsey 8y ago
> what our society would need to look like for the Sabbath to be possible. Keeping sabbath is possible, though sometimes difficult. Coming from a fairly conservative presbyterian background, the hardest part for me was on-call responsibilities. There are exemptions for emergencies (for doctors, police, fire fighters, etc), but in some software jobs "emergencies" happen nearly every day and it didn't seem like that was adhering to the spirit of the rule. But outside of that it just means you need to be better about planning to make sure you get work done on Saturday, or early Monday morning. Once you get in the habit of disconnecting its totally worth it though.
- specto 8y ago
  Sounds very adventist ;)
- DanAndersen 8y ago
  I grew up LDS and remember a church youth speaker saying something like "It's OK to pull the ox out of the mire on Sunday as long as you didn't push him in on Saturday." :)
- jfk13 8y ago
  > in some software jobs "emergencies" happen nearly every day Perhaps in some cases we (managers? developers? customers?) ought to reconsider what constitutes an "emergency". Or perhaps the software concerned is particularly poor.
badrabbit 8y ago
Hah,let's talk about why 'we' got rid of it to begin with. Also, sabbath means "you can't work" not "you don't have to work if you don't want to"
ghaff 8y ago
As a student in Cambridge MA in the late 70s, very few stores were open on a Sunday. I often played rugby matches on Saturday and I remember having to often find a few hours in the afternoon free of classes when I could do various shopping. Just an anecdote but you don't have to go back to the truly distant past to find the vast majority of stores closed on Sunday.
- craftyguy 8y ago
  Lots of (smaller) towns in Europe are still like this. It's very difficult to find stores open on Sunday, usually the only ones that are open are the large chain grocery stores.
  - kwhitefoot 8y ago
    Here in Norway shops that open on Sunday must be less than 100 square metres in area or sell only perishable goods. There really is no need for anyone to have to shop on Sunday. We need a day when it is quiet. Most people here generally avoid doing noisy diy or mowing the lawn on Sundays too.
- greglindahl 8y ago
  The state of MA had "blue laws" requiring those stores to be closed on Sunday.
macintux 8y ago
I think forcing people to be prepared for a day each week without any services (grocery, gas stations) would lead to better emergency preparedness in general. And better planning. (I still remember when people needed to withdraw cash during bank hours and thus had to plan ahead.) I'd also be curious what the Sabbath would be. Sundown Friday to sundown Saturday? Saturday only? I believe the Christian conflation of church day with the Sabbath is a misapprehension of scripture, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- RobertRoberts 8y ago
  That is an interesting technical point. As an aside, we observe a day of fasting (atonement) every year, so my kids all know what it's like to be really hungry, but they also aren't afraid of it either. There's real life skills and strength gained from this.
- kaybe 8y ago
  Eh, I don't think so. As mentioned above, almost all stores are closed in Germany on Sundays (not gas stations though, they will sell you emergency groceries for 2-3 times the usual price), and I don't think Germans are prepared that well. I think the frequency of natural disasters is more important for that (we have basically none in Germany).
gavman 8y ago
As an Orthodox Jew who observes the Sabbath every week, while sometimes finishing up work and preparations beforehand can be stressful at times, there's no feeling like turning off all phones/laptops/etc Friday evening and leaving it all behind. There's a supreme serenity that comes with the knowledge of "I can't do anything about it, so there's no point in worrying". As soon as Sabbath starts I'm totally focused on the now -- I can't do anything to prepare for what comes after, and due to the restrictions of the day I've done all my preparations for Sabbath before it begins. There's a saying in Judaism that Sabbath is "me'ein olam haba", meaning "of the next world", and it rings true every week when I can't wait for it to begin and feel sadness when it ends and I have to return to the mundaneness of work and logistics and emails. It's just the right amount of a great thing.
- throwaway715875 8y ago
  I'm Jewish but not religious anymore, and I know a lot of people that keep Shabbat that talk like this. Frankly, I don't buy it. If we have a problem with detaching from technology, then, stopping all usage of it only one day a week is maybe 90% as unhealthy. It would be like saying you have a healthy relationship with smoking because you don't smoke at all for one day a week, but after that you can chain smoke 24/6. Now, I definitely don't think that social media/technology/<modern_thing> is nearly as bad as smoking. But if we accept the premise that maybe we're using it too much, then I think it's delusional to believe that stopping it for just one day a week is going to do anything substantial.
  - taurath 8y ago
    > If we have a problem with detaching from technology, then, stopping all usage of it only one day a week is maybe 90% as unhealthy. > It would be like saying you have a healthy relationship with smoking because you don't smoke at all for one day a week, but after that you can chain smoke 24/6. I don't buy this at all (sidenote: interesting that you decided to use a throwaway for this comment?) - taking a vacation from distractions and a smartphone even for a week helps me for months afterwards because it allows me to realize that the pull isn't important - daily use builds up the idea, being able to not use it without consequences stops the FOMO.
danschumann 8y ago
Plenty of religious things are not superstitious, but based on real psychological needs.. people who dismiss them as pure fantasies are missing the point. New Testament is full of such things helpful for psychological maintenance and emotional well-being, if you can get the metaphors. It's why the stories and practice of them have survived so long (because the practicioners survived more frequently and/or saw the value in repeating/practicing them). Take as many grains of salt as you need; there is a great treasure there.
- protomyth 8y ago
  Some of the things in the Bible are also physical health items. Of course, modern technology and health practices have rendered much of the directives obsolete unless you get stuck in a really primitive part of the world.
  - danschumann 8y ago
    There are few if any specific directions about health in the new testament.. unless you count "don't worry" as a health directive. The new testament is said to be "a better contract", not contradicting, but replacing the old testament. Again, though, the stories should be taken with salt. They thought the earth was flat, but human brains were largely the same. If situations were occurring then, and they still occur today, you can learn a bit about the inner workings of the mind, society, and such.
    - protomyth 8y ago
      I said Bible not New Testament. The Old Testament has most of the health directives. You might want to look at the ‘they thought the earth was flat’ thing. There is quite a lot of data to show that a lot of people didn’t think that.
- jVinc 8y ago
  Well of cause. People don't dismiss "religious things" like singing, gathering together or confiding in others. They dismiss the religious part of those things. And the assumption that wearing spaghetti strainers or turning off your phone on the weekends will somehow bring you closer to the giant spaghetti monster in the sky. > It's why the stories and practice of them have survived so long (because the practitioners survived more frequently and/or saw the value in repeating/practicing them). Yes. That's a hypothesis... another hypothesis that has a lot more backing in history is that the practitioners literally killed people who disagreed with them. Religions didn't survive because of minor health benefits or great mental advantages of regular praying. They survived because they where the mafia of yesterday who administered justice without regards for morals or popular opinion because they claimed to act in the name of gods.
chadash 8y ago
I'm Jewish and I observe the sabbath. It's quite a liberating experience that the whole world aught to experience. It's a time when I sleep better knowing that I can't turn on my phone or check my email. I eat great sit-down meals with my family and friends, with no outside distractions; no one is eyeing their cellphone or worrying about getting back to work because they can't do either of those things. We'll often meet our friends to play boardgames or hang out in the park. There are definitely times when it's tough. A tight deadline is coming up at work and Friday's sundown is just hours away. But I plan around those things and I find that on the whole, having a day (completely) off of work relaxes me a ton. These days, technology is literally built to be addictive. I'm sure there are people who resist checking their phones, writing emails at 2am and reading hacker news better than I do, but I think the majority of people would benefit from an occasional day away from these things.
- princekolt 8y ago
  > These days, technology is literally built to be addictive. This is very true and a lot of companies make as much use of it as they can. [1] I think it can be dealt with with some diligence from ourselves though. I would find it impossible to disconnect completely during weekends, since I have many close friends in different countries, and the internet is the only way I have to keep in touch with them. So what I do is disable all mail/notifications from every app that is not the apps I use to talk to them. It's liberating. And most importantly: Disable notifications from the #random channel in the company Slack. That goes for the whole week :p [1]: https://www.theonion.com/new-facebook-notifications-alert-users-when-they-not-cu-1819577354 https://www.theonion.com/new-facebook-notifications-alert-us...
rhapsodic 8y ago
This article is ridiculous on a number of different levels. Its entire premise -- that everyone is working constantly -- is utter bullshit. Some are, but as I see it, that's entirely their business. This author wants to make it society's business.
eco 8y ago
Here in Utah it is very common for local businesses to be closed on the sabbath and there is strong cultural pressure among Mormons to not work or do anything that would cause someone to have to work on Sunday (e.g., shopping and going out to eat, though some take it even further by abstaining from things like online shopping or even watching television). I don't see us headed in that direction though. It's it's becoming more and more common for businesses which had long been closed on Sunday to cave and begin opening on Sunday (it seems like it often coincides with when the children of a business owner take over). With the share of practicing Mormons in the state less than half (and falling) there is just too much missed opportunity. Also, my own impression is that the younger generation of practicing Mormons don't seem to follow the older generations sabbath restrictions nearly as strictly. My siblings and Mormon friends almost all seem to not keep the sabbath quite as holy as our parents did. I do wonder though if I would have spent nearly as much time as a kid dinking around on the computer and learning what became my career if my parents had let me play with friends on Sunday.
- Crisco 8y ago
  I was also raised in a very Mormon influenced area (East Idaho). I'm still active and believing, but one of the things I do that's more for myself than because of cultural or religious belief is observe the Sabbath. I don't work or do school work and avoid most activities I normally do any other day. Sunday has become my favorite day. I don't worry about the coming week and can truly relax. That isn't to say I don't do anything, some Sundays I'm quite busy, but my activities are usually unrelated to my normal interests, hobbies, or daily life I think everyone, religious or not, can benefit from having one day a week to truly separate themselves from both the daily grind and from what usually occupies their headspace.
- qwerty456127 8y ago
  > some take it even further by abstaining from things like online shopping or even watching television I used to believe Mormons don't have TVs at all and that felt admirable.
- canadaduane 8y ago
  I grew up Mormon as well and have since left. But I find a lot of value in traditions like this. We (post-Mormons) tongue-in-cheek call the Sabbath "Second Saturday," but I do think there's a loss that includes both the Sabbath as a communal good and the individual "day of rest" (except for lay member leaders who are exhausted at the end of a 10-hour meeting-filled Sabbath). Another tradition I value is the monthly single-day fast. There are contemplative, compassionate, and health benefits to fasting. But traditions don't require you to know all of the benefits before you start doing them--they just give you the program and ask/cajole you to get with it. IMO, a memeplex that comes with "arbitrary traditions bundled with turns-out-to-have-good-reasons traditions" is better than arriving in life with a zero vector for direction--i.e. no tradition at all.
tootie 8y ago
Bring back Saturnalia so we all get the week off between Christmas and New Years.
- protomyth 8y ago
  Work for a college. Pay sucks, but a lot of them take a two week break in that time period.
- kwhitefoot 8y ago
  Move to Norway. In 32 years here I think I have only worked a couple of days in total between Christmas Eve and 2nd of January.
  - disgruntledphd2 8y ago
    Literally move to anywhere in Europe, and save holidays. I always take minimum 10 days around the turn of the year, and its wonderful because the likelihood of coming back to 1k+ emails and 23 problems is reduced, as many other people will do the same.
aklemm 8y ago
If this doesn't work out, can we at least keep one day a year? Please don't shop on Thanksgiving!
- RobertRoberts 8y ago
  It actually used to be against the law. The King of England would put people in jail (or bring them to court at least) if they were caught working on a day of thanksgiving. This was 1600s of course... There's a funny story about a guy in court being taken to task, but he said he didn't work, but his son did, and shenanigans ensued. Evidently it was a sign of protest against the king to work on thanksgiving days. Mainly because the king would declare them for his own purposes...
- dingaling 8y ago
  I'm not sure I can go completely offline every [Saturday|Sunday] but this has inspired me to at least book one day a month off technology.
Kye 8y ago
This article is aimed at religious people. It's fine. Good writers know their audience and write to them. This would make a fine sermon or lecture. But you can see how the context collapse has led to lots of snark here. My advice: read it with the understanding that it's not for you (or me), and that it offers a perspective you might not have gotten if it targeted a more general audience. Seneca might have been writing to his boyfriend Lucilius in his famous letters, but anyone who's read them will agree they got something out of it despite not being the target audience.
- allenofthehills 8y ago
  > This article is aimed at religious people. I didn't get that at all. I think the author was trying to explain that the concept of the Sabbath (ie take a day of rest) has important psychological and societal value, irrespective of its religious origins.
  - maze-le 8y ago
    Yep, I concur. As an atheist I am as detached from religion as you can get, and I still think this article has some valuable insight. I know it from experience, as I am from Germany and most workers actually do have Sundays off (there are exceptions of course: doctors, nurses, gas station workers, police officers...). In retrospective, I very much appreciated having it as a kid. My parents were pretty busy otherwise but Sundays were always different and brought us together as a family.
- bonniemuffin 8y ago
  I disagree-- I think this article was speaking right to me, an atheist. Sometimes I schedule a weekend day on my calendar labeled as "do-nothing day", in which I give myself the luxury of staying in pajamas all day if I feel like it, not leaving the house if I feel like it, and basically not doing any goal-oriented activities (e.g. nothing you'd put on a to-do list). I could really get into the idea of keeping a secular sabbath.
Animats 8y ago
What we need is something we had in the union era - time and a half after 40 hours, time and a half on weekends, and double time on the seventh day. That kept employers from overdoing overtime.
qwerty456127 8y ago
Sabbath is not enough. There is so much progress in automation yet it has been so long since the last time the standard work week length has been decreased. Why the heck is it considered a norm that all the people are supposed to spend almost all the time (that is left after sleeping, home maintenance and gym) at work?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
Symbiote 8y ago
> In a Sabbatarian economy, the right to rest – the right to do nothing of value to capital – is as holy as the right to work. I realise this article is for American readers, and I'm not sure how to compare the holiness, but the EU Working Time Directive includes the right to a day off. It's more flexible than a simple day off, and has other rights. Enforcement against the gig economy companies might need to be improved, but otherwise seems to work fine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Time_Directive_2003 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Time_Directive_2003
perfunctory 8y ago
"The Kapauku people of Papua think it is bad luck to work two consecutive days." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_time
sudosteph 8y ago
I feel like observance of the Sabbath is actually one place where Christianity diverges[1] pretty clearly from many stricter Jewish traditions. Jesus pretty much straight up tells his disciples that Sabbath is for people to relax and that the weird laws around it were meaningless. But in general I'd say the author's sentiment is definitely on target. Guaranteed time off makes sense from many perspectives, morally and ethically. It's actually the one thing I kind of give credit to Chick-fil-a for. They'd make a killing if they opened on Sundays, but the owner genuinely believes he's morally obligated to give everyone Sunday off, so every single one closes on Sundays. [1] quote below for reference: At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.” He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent? I tell you that something greater than the temple is here. If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’[a] you would not have condemned the innocent. For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.” - Matthew 12
- RobertRoberts 8y ago
  >...and that the weird laws around it were meaningless. It's important to distinguish Rabbinical law from biblical laws in this case. There are very few biblical laws about how to keep the sabbath.
- themodelplumber 8y ago
  I'm LDS, and though I can feel the downvotes coming, I also feel like I can share some relevant personal experience here. We consider ourselves Christians and do not work on the sabbath, or I should clarify, are _encouraged_ not to (at an individual level all Mormons observe their religion differently, so some will work on the sabbath, or feel they have to in order to fulfill a sort of higher law of providing for their family, or whatever). I guess I'd also add that in the general Christian view, the specific, older-testament-era laws around the sabbath had a meaning, but they were really pointers to higher laws and concepts rather than, or possibly in addition to, being materially meaningful standalone practices. And as you rightfully point out, those "little laws and practices" were also subject to a higher law. I remember when I lived in Japan, I was working outside as very hungry young missionary one day and a kind old woman grabbed some fruit and a bag of chips off of her family altar and gave them to me, demanding that I eat. This had similar significance to me and is an experience that's very close to my heart. IMO sabbath observance a great practice. There are few things like the feeling of a day that is uninterrupted by work concerns. And going beyond the limitation to what we _don't do_ on that day, it's also a day that's set aside for meditation, big-picture thinking about life, spirituality, and connection with the universal. In the past I let it slide a lot more than I do now, but in the past I was also a much less-healthy workaholic.
RickJWagner 8y ago
Reminds me of the 'Blue Laws' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_law) that used to exist. I think some good came with those, but also a lot of inconvenience for people who don't work 5x8.
- kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
  They still exist. Paramus NJ mostly shuts down on Sunday.
perfunctory 8y ago
I also highly recommend Stefan Sagmeister's ted talk about sabbatical. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNuOmTQdFjA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNuOmTQdFjA
Kinnard 8y ago
I bet this audience would get a lot out of a teleological exposition of sabbath observance. The article doesn't touch on this. . . . Shabbat as a technology for transforming the world over time and the origins of the laws of shabbat as a program running (executed by people) to build the microcosmos into the macrocosmos, culminating in a world where we don't have to work anymore. But that might be too emic.
paulddraper 8y ago
Chick-fil-a is notably one of very few restaurants closed on Sunday. > all franchised Chick-fil-A Operators and their Restaurant employees should have an opportunity to rest, spend time with family and friends, and worship if they choose to do so
msla 8y ago
Shades of National Sunday Law! https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/National_Sunday_law https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/National_Sunday_law > National Sunday law is a conspiracy theory which alleges that the United States government is on the verge of enacting a national blue law that would make Sunday a day of rest and worship. The theory is based on the idea that the Pope is the Antichrist and the Mark of the Beast is worshipped on Sunday. Sinister forces (read: the Vatican) are conspiring to enact a national Sunday law in the United States, which would be the trigger that unleashes the fulfilment of the prophecies found in the Biblical books of Daniel and Revelation. In addition, this law would outlaw worshipping on Saturday, thus beginning a period of persecution of those who worship on Saturday, or Sabbath. > This idea originated within Seventh-day Adventism (which considers the Sabbath to be Saturday), and some on the fringes of the SDA church have taken a handful of failed Congressional bills and Papal writings and inflated them into the trigger of the apocalypse. This is quite ironic considering that you would think blue law opposition would come from more secular groups. I joke, but barely: Making any day a day of rest would play into religious persecution, and fears of same, in a nasty, nasty way.
jiveturkey 8y ago
oh how i wish chick-fil-a didn't observe the [christian] sabbath!
phyller 8y ago
We get both the Jewish and Christian Sabbaths off each week. We have more leisure and chance to reflect then ever before. It's our fault if we burn it up playing video games, watching tv, or working. I've found that since I've started in software engineering I have much more trouble calming my mind down and thinking deeply. I'm trying getting up early in the morning, getting some exercise, food, and reading the Bible, which tends to get me into a more contemplative state. I just started, it's brightened my outlook and made me feel like I have more time in the day, though I can't tell if my work is benefiting yet.
sonnyblarney 8y ago
I'm a North American who moved to France (not Paris) for a few years where everything is closed on Sundays even most restaurants. At first, I thought it was ridiculous. But only after a few months did I come to appreciate it very much. People are with their families, doing 'whatever'. When 'everyone else is off' there's so much less pressure. It's kind of like being disconnected. Living in, Germany there are many holidays wherein it felt like this as well - quiet. After experiencing 'Quiet Sundays' as an adult, think the economic case for 'Sunday Shopping' is overstated, and I actually wish we'd roll that one back. It's a difficult argument to make in a 'GDP-driven and culturally secular world' ... but it makes sense in ways that are just a little too nuanced to make a public case for.
Illniyar 8y ago
I'm an atheist living in Israel. There is nothing more annoying to daily life then the Sabbath. If you embrace it, then you must accept that no one works on saturday. You can't go to the store. There are no kids entertainment. Restaurants. Theaters. There is no public transportation because drivers need their rest too.
d--b 8y ago
I’ve removed work emails from my phone 4 years ago. That’s way more effective than turning everything off for 24 hours. First I’m still reachable if there’s an emergency. Just call me (people don’t call anymore so that almost never happens) and if no one calls I know it’s because everything’s fine. Second it’s all the time, not just the Saturday.
bernardlunn 8y ago
I was raised Catholic and the Sunday day of rest has the same positive value. In Switzerland most shops shut on Sunday, so most people get a real break
cswilly 8y ago
This is a possible idea for well-paid engineers. But many minimum wage people trying to get ahead appreciate the time and a half extra pay they get for working Sundays. Why would think we have a right to stop them from getting ahead by banning work on Sunday.
hi41 8y ago
I have been doing production the whole weekend with just few hours of sleep. I like the idea of this article. The pressure from work is intense and would love to observe the Sabbath just so that I can spend some time with the family.
squozzer 8y ago
You know what would be really cool? 365 / 5 = 73. So if we eliminated Saturday and Sunday, we could work all year round. 73 weeks of fun-filled, delicious work each year!

tathougies 8y ago

While we're at it, let's follow the jubilee calendar as well! EDIT: downvotes?

sehugg 8y ago

How about we just work fewer/flexible hours, and spend our spare time on secular pursuits if we so choose?

tathougies 8y ago
Read the article...

vinceguidry 8y ago

> But observing this weekly day of rest can actually be a radical act. Indeed, what makes it so obsolete and impractical is precisely what makes it so dangerous. It was a radical act when introduced. The very religion that inspired it was radical and counter-intuitive. It's fun to see people rediscover that every few years. edit: the article was way too informed about religious history to be anything other than a snow job by a religious society. Indeed, at the bottom it states that the article was funded by the Templeton Religion Trust.

justinpombrio 8y ago

Another article in favor of the Sabbath: http://benjaminrosshoffman.com/sabbath-hard-and-go-home/ http://benjaminrosshoffman.com/sabbath-hard-and-go-home/

rgbrenner 8y ago

a pharaonic economy driven by anxiety begets violence, dishonesty, jealousy, theft, the commodification of sex and familial alienation. None of these had a place in the Torahic economy, which was driven not by anxiety but by wholeness, enoughness. In such a society, there was no need to murder, covet, lie, commit adultery or dishonour one’s parents. Lol. All of that existed in the torahic economy. It never ceases to amaze me at the things people will forget to idealize the past. And from a history professor no less. But on the point of the article: I'm against all laws that force others to participate in your religion, including preventing people from working on days your religion says are sacred. It's anti-freedom and pro-religion... if you want to force your religion on others, go live in a theocracy.

framebit 8y ago
He's not idealizing the past. Keep reading: "It is unknown if these radical commandments were ever followed to the letter." The "Torahic economy" as referenced by the author in this context is clearly the _idea_ of an economy that does follow the ideals of the Torah. The way things played out in reality could more accurately be referenced as the "Hebrew economy" or something like that.
- rgbrenner 8y ago
  If that was his intention (I don't agree), then it is not unknown. It is known they were not followed. If a torahic economy is only an idea... then why use it as an example at all. We know that's not how it played out in practice.. He holds the current economy to reality, but the torahic economy only to an idea. We aren't striving for violence and murder either... they exist, just like they would exist in a torahic economy too.
snapit 8y ago
I don't believe this author is advocating forcing religion. He is simply saying that there is less freedom in the current system which effectively forces/expects over work and extended hours. This is an attempt to pull the pendulum back a bit.. which we can all agree is helpful.
adrianmonk 8y ago
> But on the point of the article: I'm against all laws that force others to participate in your religion I think you are reading something into the article that is not there. It starts off with a little background wherein we learn that the author's first exposure to strict observation of the Sabbath was when his dad was hired because their family was not Jewish. I don't think it's likely he wants to force "his" religion on others considering it's not even his religion. It also says, "It is time for us, whatever our religious beliefs, to see the Sabbatarian laws ... as the liberatory statements they were meant to be." Two interesting things about that sentence: (1) the "whatever our religious beliefs" and (2) the shift from "laws" to "statements". One of the themes of the article was that the sabbath idea was probably incorporated into the religion because it was founded by former slaves. I think that's significant. Two different ways to view the ideas contained within a religion are (1) they originate from god and are revealed to humans and (2) they originate from man as cultural elements and get promoted to religion. The first (downward flow of ideas) is more of an insider, true believer way of looking at it, and the second (upward) is more of an outsider, religions-are-just-part-of-culture view. This article definitely gave me the impression that the author leans more toward the second, which in turn suggests they see the idea as separable from religion.

jiveturkey 8y ago

I'm in. I don't roll on Shabbos!

dghughes 8y ago

The result will be the same whether it's called sabbath or "the right to disconnect". Wages have stagnated and organizations are trying to squeeze more work out of each worker. All that while simultaneously reducing the organization's full-time staff or just cut the total amount of employees. At some point people will snap or breakdown from working two 12 hour shift jobs each day. I'm joking obviously but it seems like that's what people have to work just to barely survive.

howard941 8y ago
Agreed. And job insecurity is still a thing so even those who aren't overtly required to do so put in more than the expected amount to help reduce the likelihood they'll be in the discard pile the next time cost cutting measures come around.

fenwick67 8y ago

"The Sabbath’s radicalism should be no surprise given the fact that it originated among a community of former slaves" Just a reminder to readers, there is no historical evidence for the mass jewish enslavement by egyptians as described in the torah.

jeffdavis 8y ago
Isn't pretty much any historical text also historical evidence? Maybe you mean archeological evidence, or corroberating historical evidence?
- rgbrenner 8y ago
  Isn't pretty much any historical text also historical evidence? No. People make up stories. Obviously. Harry potter isn't historical evidence of the magical abilities of past humans.
  - jeffdavis 8y ago
    People can make up stories on the witness stand, too. Testimony is still evidence, it just that it needs to be weighed in context by a jury (along with all the other evidence). In the future, when humans just upload data directly to brains, and nobody remembers what a school is, then Harry Potter absolutely could be used as historical evidence that schools existed and that children went to them. The fantastical bit about learning to be a wizard may be discarded by other evidence (or lack thereof).
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - rgbrenner 8y ago
      If they don't know what a school is, how would they know that Harry Potter is accurate? Sewers are real. Turtles are real. Is Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles real? The other evidence for a school must be conclusive. Only from that evidence could you then say Harry Potter's schools were real. It's the other evidence that is evidence. Not harry potter. Anything in Harry Potter not proven by something else, must be assumed to be fantasy.

DanAndersen 8y ago

The article raises good points about the need for formal societal taboos against constant work. The ideal (often violated, though) in our modern society of the "40-hour week" as a reasonable amount is one of them. Having regular times for contemplation and separation from the bustle of the world is important. The gig economy has dangers in it. There's a liberating aspect in that people "can choose their own hours," but then that means that they have to work more to keep up with someone else who is working a few extra hours to get ahead in their own lives. It seems like the world of labor has a tragedy of the commons aspect to it, where it's in everyone's immediate individual interest to work just a little bit longer, but the end result is that everyone has to work more for the same reward. A bit like the two-income trap: some benefits, some liberation, but there's also a cost. I do wish, though, that the article fully grappled with the issue of the 'shabbos goy.' It praises the virtues of having everyone able to participate in a time of separation from work, but then there's this practice where the conveniences of life are still indulged in by having an outsider labor for you.

emodendroket 8y ago
> I do wish, though, that the article fully grappled with the issue of the 'shabbos goy.' It praises the virtues of having everyone able to participate in a time of separation from work, but then there's this practice where the conveniences of life are still indulged in by having an outsider labor for you. I'd say the traditional Christian concept of the sabbath is looser and doesn't really require this kind of thing. In effect I'd say that it is an attitude more concerned with the spirit and less with the letter of the law (so, for instance, I don't think turning on the light is an issue, and putting money on the table for someone to take isn't actually adhering to the prohibition on commerce).
- ido 8y ago
  In effect I'd say that it is an attitude more concerned with the spirit and less with the letter of the law (so, for instance, I don't think turning on the light is an issue, and putting money on the table for someone to take isn't actually adhering to the prohibition on commerce). That's something that generally rubs me the wrong way about a lot of things with orthodox jewish practices (especially the ultra orthodox) - there is so much effort trying to find loopholes in the rules, instead of adhering to their spirit instead.

TulliusCicero 8y ago

Kind of have this in Germany, where many businesses are prohibited from being open on Sunday. For example, grocery stores can't be open unless they're at a central train station or airport. In practice, to me it just feels really annoying and limiting. Means I basically have to plan any larger shopping trips for Saturday, even if that doesn't work well for my schedule. I get that they want to make sure workers have enough time off, but you could mandate days off for each worker without banning Sunday for everyone. Not to mention that it being Sunday very obviously favors Christianity over other religions that might have a different holy day. The integration of church and state here turned out to be more than expected.

noja 8y ago
Are you German? If not, what do the Germans think of this?
- TulliusCicero 8y ago
  Nope, just moved here a couple years ago from the states. Most people I know here seem to think it's annoying, but I work at Google, so we got people from all over, I don't think Germans are even a majority of the devs. edit: apparently 61% of Germans think stores should be able to decide themselves whether to open on Sundays: http://m.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/service/einzelhandel-mehrheit-will-mehr-sonntagsoeffnungszeiten-a-1150667.html http://m.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/service/einzelhandel-mehrheit...
  - detaro 8y ago
    I'd be curious if and how those numbers change when it is instead "companies should be able to decide themselves if they are open on Sundays". Anecdotally, that question complicates it for quite a few people, despite probably being the fairer change.
    - blattimwind 8y ago
      It's of course great when people work for you on your day off. Unsurprising, though markedly short-sighted.

jeffdavis 8y ago

I wonder how our concepts of work and rest have changed over time? Is tending to your home, family, or garden considered work?

avip 8y ago
Well for Jews observing Shabbas that is answered in more details than you would possibly like to know...
- emodendroket 8y ago
  True, but even the ancients of other cultures largely considered them odd.

cdoxsey 8y ago

> what our society would need to look like for the Sabbath to be possible. Keeping sabbath is possible, though sometimes difficult. Coming from a fairly conservative presbyterian background, the hardest part for me was on-call responsibilities. There are exemptions for emergencies (for doctors, police, fire fighters, etc), but in some software jobs "emergencies" happen nearly every day and it didn't seem like that was adhering to the spirit of the rule. But outside of that it just means you need to be better about planning to make sure you get work done on Saturday, or early Monday morning. Once you get in the habit of disconnecting its totally worth it though.

specto 8y ago
Sounds very adventist ;)
DanAndersen 8y ago
I grew up LDS and remember a church youth speaker saying something like "It's OK to pull the ox out of the mire on Sunday as long as you didn't push him in on Saturday." :)
jfk13 8y ago
> in some software jobs "emergencies" happen nearly every day Perhaps in some cases we (managers? developers? customers?) ought to reconsider what constitutes an "emergency". Or perhaps the software concerned is particularly poor.

badrabbit 8y ago

Hah,let's talk about why 'we' got rid of it to begin with. Also, sabbath means "you can't work" not "you don't have to work if you don't want to"

ghaff 8y ago

As a student in Cambridge MA in the late 70s, very few stores were open on a Sunday. I often played rugby matches on Saturday and I remember having to often find a few hours in the afternoon free of classes when I could do various shopping. Just an anecdote but you don't have to go back to the truly distant past to find the vast majority of stores closed on Sunday.

craftyguy 8y ago
Lots of (smaller) towns in Europe are still like this. It's very difficult to find stores open on Sunday, usually the only ones that are open are the large chain grocery stores.
- kwhitefoot 8y ago
  Here in Norway shops that open on Sunday must be less than 100 square metres in area or sell only perishable goods. There really is no need for anyone to have to shop on Sunday. We need a day when it is quiet. Most people here generally avoid doing noisy diy or mowing the lawn on Sundays too.
greglindahl 8y ago
The state of MA had "blue laws" requiring those stores to be closed on Sunday.

macintux 8y ago

I think forcing people to be prepared for a day each week without any services (grocery, gas stations) would lead to better emergency preparedness in general. And better planning. (I still remember when people needed to withdraw cash during bank hours and thus had to plan ahead.) I'd also be curious what the Sabbath would be. Sundown Friday to sundown Saturday? Saturday only? I believe the Christian conflation of church day with the Sabbath is a misapprehension of scripture, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

RobertRoberts 8y ago
That is an interesting technical point. As an aside, we observe a day of fasting (atonement) every year, so my kids all know what it's like to be really hungry, but they also aren't afraid of it either. There's real life skills and strength gained from this.
kaybe 8y ago
Eh, I don't think so. As mentioned above, almost all stores are closed in Germany on Sundays (not gas stations though, they will sell you emergency groceries for 2-3 times the usual price), and I don't think Germans are prepared that well. I think the frequency of natural disasters is more important for that (we have basically none in Germany).

gavman 8y ago

As an Orthodox Jew who observes the Sabbath every week, while sometimes finishing up work and preparations beforehand can be stressful at times, there's no feeling like turning off all phones/laptops/etc Friday evening and leaving it all behind. There's a supreme serenity that comes with the knowledge of "I can't do anything about it, so there's no point in worrying". As soon as Sabbath starts I'm totally focused on the now -- I can't do anything to prepare for what comes after, and due to the restrictions of the day I've done all my preparations for Sabbath before it begins. There's a saying in Judaism that Sabbath is "me'ein olam haba", meaning "of the next world", and it rings true every week when I can't wait for it to begin and feel sadness when it ends and I have to return to the mundaneness of work and logistics and emails. It's just the right amount of a great thing.

throwaway715875 8y ago
I'm Jewish but not religious anymore, and I know a lot of people that keep Shabbat that talk like this. Frankly, I don't buy it. If we have a problem with detaching from technology, then, stopping all usage of it only one day a week is maybe 90% as unhealthy. It would be like saying you have a healthy relationship with smoking because you don't smoke at all for one day a week, but after that you can chain smoke 24/6. Now, I definitely don't think that social media/technology/<modern_thing> is nearly as bad as smoking. But if we accept the premise that maybe we're using it too much, then I think it's delusional to believe that stopping it for just one day a week is going to do anything substantial.
- taurath 8y ago
  > If we have a problem with detaching from technology, then, stopping all usage of it only one day a week is maybe 90% as unhealthy. > It would be like saying you have a healthy relationship with smoking because you don't smoke at all for one day a week, but after that you can chain smoke 24/6. I don't buy this at all (sidenote: interesting that you decided to use a throwaway for this comment?) - taking a vacation from distractions and a smartphone even for a week helps me for months afterwards because it allows me to realize that the pull isn't important - daily use builds up the idea, being able to not use it without consequences stops the FOMO.

danschumann 8y ago

Plenty of religious things are not superstitious, but based on real psychological needs.. people who dismiss them as pure fantasies are missing the point. New Testament is full of such things helpful for psychological maintenance and emotional well-being, if you can get the metaphors. It's why the stories and practice of them have survived so long (because the practicioners survived more frequently and/or saw the value in repeating/practicing them). Take as many grains of salt as you need; there is a great treasure there.

protomyth 8y ago
Some of the things in the Bible are also physical health items. Of course, modern technology and health practices have rendered much of the directives obsolete unless you get stuck in a really primitive part of the world.
- danschumann 8y ago
  There are few if any specific directions about health in the new testament.. unless you count "don't worry" as a health directive. The new testament is said to be "a better contract", not contradicting, but replacing the old testament. Again, though, the stories should be taken with salt. They thought the earth was flat, but human brains were largely the same. If situations were occurring then, and they still occur today, you can learn a bit about the inner workings of the mind, society, and such.
  - protomyth 8y ago
    I said Bible not New Testament. The Old Testament has most of the health directives. You might want to look at the ‘they thought the earth was flat’ thing. There is quite a lot of data to show that a lot of people didn’t think that.
jVinc 8y ago
Well of cause. People don't dismiss "religious things" like singing, gathering together or confiding in others. They dismiss the religious part of those things. And the assumption that wearing spaghetti strainers or turning off your phone on the weekends will somehow bring you closer to the giant spaghetti monster in the sky. > It's why the stories and practice of them have survived so long (because the practitioners survived more frequently and/or saw the value in repeating/practicing them). Yes. That's a hypothesis... another hypothesis that has a lot more backing in history is that the practitioners literally killed people who disagreed with them. Religions didn't survive because of minor health benefits or great mental advantages of regular praying. They survived because they where the mafia of yesterday who administered justice without regards for morals or popular opinion because they claimed to act in the name of gods.

chadash 8y ago

I'm Jewish and I observe the sabbath. It's quite a liberating experience that the whole world aught to experience. It's a time when I sleep better knowing that I can't turn on my phone or check my email. I eat great sit-down meals with my family and friends, with no outside distractions; no one is eyeing their cellphone or worrying about getting back to work because they can't do either of those things. We'll often meet our friends to play boardgames or hang out in the park. There are definitely times when it's tough. A tight deadline is coming up at work and Friday's sundown is just hours away. But I plan around those things and I find that on the whole, having a day (completely) off of work relaxes me a ton. These days, technology is literally built to be addictive. I'm sure there are people who resist checking their phones, writing emails at 2am and reading hacker news better than I do, but I think the majority of people would benefit from an occasional day away from these things.

princekolt 8y ago
> These days, technology is literally built to be addictive. This is very true and a lot of companies make as much use of it as they can. [1] I think it can be dealt with with some diligence from ourselves though. I would find it impossible to disconnect completely during weekends, since I have many close friends in different countries, and the internet is the only way I have to keep in touch with them. So what I do is disable all mail/notifications from every app that is not the apps I use to talk to them. It's liberating. And most importantly: Disable notifications from the #random channel in the company Slack. That goes for the whole week :p [1]: https://www.theonion.com/new-facebook-notifications-alert-users-when-they-not-cu-1819577354 https://www.theonion.com/new-facebook-notifications-alert-us...

rhapsodic 8y ago

This article is ridiculous on a number of different levels. Its entire premise -- that everyone is working constantly -- is utter bullshit. Some are, but as I see it, that's entirely their business. This author wants to make it society's business.

eco 8y ago

Here in Utah it is very common for local businesses to be closed on the sabbath and there is strong cultural pressure among Mormons to not work or do anything that would cause someone to have to work on Sunday (e.g., shopping and going out to eat, though some take it even further by abstaining from things like online shopping or even watching television). I don't see us headed in that direction though. It's it's becoming more and more common for businesses which had long been closed on Sunday to cave and begin opening on Sunday (it seems like it often coincides with when the children of a business owner take over). With the share of practicing Mormons in the state less than half (and falling) there is just too much missed opportunity. Also, my own impression is that the younger generation of practicing Mormons don't seem to follow the older generations sabbath restrictions nearly as strictly. My siblings and Mormon friends almost all seem to not keep the sabbath quite as holy as our parents did. I do wonder though if I would have spent nearly as much time as a kid dinking around on the computer and learning what became my career if my parents had let me play with friends on Sunday.

Crisco 8y ago
I was also raised in a very Mormon influenced area (East Idaho). I'm still active and believing, but one of the things I do that's more for myself than because of cultural or religious belief is observe the Sabbath. I don't work or do school work and avoid most activities I normally do any other day. Sunday has become my favorite day. I don't worry about the coming week and can truly relax. That isn't to say I don't do anything, some Sundays I'm quite busy, but my activities are usually unrelated to my normal interests, hobbies, or daily life I think everyone, religious or not, can benefit from having one day a week to truly separate themselves from both the daily grind and from what usually occupies their headspace.
qwerty456127 8y ago
> some take it even further by abstaining from things like online shopping or even watching television I used to believe Mormons don't have TVs at all and that felt admirable.
canadaduane 8y ago
I grew up Mormon as well and have since left. But I find a lot of value in traditions like this. We (post-Mormons) tongue-in-cheek call the Sabbath "Second Saturday," but I do think there's a loss that includes both the Sabbath as a communal good and the individual "day of rest" (except for lay member leaders who are exhausted at the end of a 10-hour meeting-filled Sabbath). Another tradition I value is the monthly single-day fast. There are contemplative, compassionate, and health benefits to fasting. But traditions don't require you to know all of the benefits before you start doing them--they just give you the program and ask/cajole you to get with it. IMO, a memeplex that comes with "arbitrary traditions bundled with turns-out-to-have-good-reasons traditions" is better than arriving in life with a zero vector for direction--i.e. no tradition at all.

tootie 8y ago

Bring back Saturnalia so we all get the week off between Christmas and New Years.

protomyth 8y ago
Work for a college. Pay sucks, but a lot of them take a two week break in that time period.
kwhitefoot 8y ago
Move to Norway. In 32 years here I think I have only worked a couple of days in total between Christmas Eve and 2nd of January.
- disgruntledphd2 8y ago
  Literally move to anywhere in Europe, and save holidays. I always take minimum 10 days around the turn of the year, and its wonderful because the likelihood of coming back to 1k+ emails and 23 problems is reduced, as many other people will do the same.

aklemm 8y ago

If this doesn't work out, can we at least keep one day a year? Please don't shop on Thanksgiving!

RobertRoberts 8y ago
It actually used to be against the law. The King of England would put people in jail (or bring them to court at least) if they were caught working on a day of thanksgiving. This was 1600s of course... There's a funny story about a guy in court being taken to task, but he said he didn't work, but his son did, and shenanigans ensued. Evidently it was a sign of protest against the king to work on thanksgiving days. Mainly because the king would declare them for his own purposes...
dingaling 8y ago
I'm not sure I can go completely offline every [Saturday|Sunday] but this has inspired me to at least book one day a month off technology.

Kye 8y ago

This article is aimed at religious people. It's fine. Good writers know their audience and write to them. This would make a fine sermon or lecture. But you can see how the context collapse has led to lots of snark here. My advice: read it with the understanding that it's not for you (or me), and that it offers a perspective you might not have gotten if it targeted a more general audience. Seneca might have been writing to his boyfriend Lucilius in his famous letters, but anyone who's read them will agree they got something out of it despite not being the target audience.

allenofthehills 8y ago
> This article is aimed at religious people. I didn't get that at all. I think the author was trying to explain that the concept of the Sabbath (ie take a day of rest) has important psychological and societal value, irrespective of its religious origins.
- maze-le 8y ago
  Yep, I concur. As an atheist I am as detached from religion as you can get, and I still think this article has some valuable insight. I know it from experience, as I am from Germany and most workers actually do have Sundays off (there are exceptions of course: doctors, nurses, gas station workers, police officers...). In retrospective, I very much appreciated having it as a kid. My parents were pretty busy otherwise but Sundays were always different and brought us together as a family.
bonniemuffin 8y ago
I disagree-- I think this article was speaking right to me, an atheist. Sometimes I schedule a weekend day on my calendar labeled as "do-nothing day", in which I give myself the luxury of staying in pajamas all day if I feel like it, not leaving the house if I feel like it, and basically not doing any goal-oriented activities (e.g. nothing you'd put on a to-do list). I could really get into the idea of keeping a secular sabbath.

Animats 8y ago

What we need is something we had in the union era - time and a half after 40 hours, time and a half on weekends, and double time on the seventh day. That kept employers from overdoing overtime.

qwerty456127 8y ago

Sabbath is not enough. There is so much progress in automation yet it has been so long since the last time the standard work week length has been decreased. Why the heck is it considered a norm that all the people are supposed to spend almost all the time (that is left after sleeping, home maintenance and gym) at work?

deleted 8y ago

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Symbiote 8y ago

> In a Sabbatarian economy, the right to rest – the right to do nothing of value to capital – is as holy as the right to work. I realise this article is for American readers, and I'm not sure how to compare the holiness, but the EU Working Time Directive includes the right to a day off. It's more flexible than a simple day off, and has other rights. Enforcement against the gig economy companies might need to be improved, but otherwise seems to work fine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Time_Directive_2003 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Time_Directive_2003

perfunctory 8y ago

"The Kapauku people of Papua think it is bad luck to work two consecutive days." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_time

sudosteph 8y ago

I feel like observance of the Sabbath is actually one place where Christianity diverges[1] pretty clearly from many stricter Jewish traditions. Jesus pretty much straight up tells his disciples that Sabbath is for people to relax and that the weird laws around it were meaningless. But in general I'd say the author's sentiment is definitely on target. Guaranteed time off makes sense from many perspectives, morally and ethically. It's actually the one thing I kind of give credit to Chick-fil-a for. They'd make a killing if they opened on Sundays, but the owner genuinely believes he's morally obligated to give everyone Sunday off, so every single one closes on Sundays. [1] quote below for reference: At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.” He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent? I tell you that something greater than the temple is here. If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’[a] you would not have condemned the innocent. For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.” - Matthew 12

RobertRoberts 8y ago
>...and that the weird laws around it were meaningless. It's important to distinguish Rabbinical law from biblical laws in this case. There are very few biblical laws about how to keep the sabbath.
themodelplumber 8y ago
I'm LDS, and though I can feel the downvotes coming, I also feel like I can share some relevant personal experience here. We consider ourselves Christians and do not work on the sabbath, or I should clarify, are _encouraged_ not to (at an individual level all Mormons observe their religion differently, so some will work on the sabbath, or feel they have to in order to fulfill a sort of higher law of providing for their family, or whatever). I guess I'd also add that in the general Christian view, the specific, older-testament-era laws around the sabbath had a meaning, but they were really pointers to higher laws and concepts rather than, or possibly in addition to, being materially meaningful standalone practices. And as you rightfully point out, those "little laws and practices" were also subject to a higher law. I remember when I lived in Japan, I was working outside as very hungry young missionary one day and a kind old woman grabbed some fruit and a bag of chips off of her family altar and gave them to me, demanding that I eat. This had similar significance to me and is an experience that's very close to my heart. IMO sabbath observance a great practice. There are few things like the feeling of a day that is uninterrupted by work concerns. And going beyond the limitation to what we _don't do_ on that day, it's also a day that's set aside for meditation, big-picture thinking about life, spirituality, and connection with the universal. In the past I let it slide a lot more than I do now, but in the past I was also a much less-healthy workaholic.

RickJWagner 8y ago

Reminds me of the 'Blue Laws' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_law) that used to exist. I think some good came with those, but also a lot of inconvenience for people who don't work 5x8.

kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
They still exist. Paramus NJ mostly shuts down on Sunday.

perfunctory 8y ago

I also highly recommend Stefan Sagmeister's ted talk about sabbatical. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNuOmTQdFjA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNuOmTQdFjA

Kinnard 8y ago

I bet this audience would get a lot out of a teleological exposition of sabbath observance. The article doesn't touch on this. . . . Shabbat as a technology for transforming the world over time and the origins of the laws of shabbat as a program running (executed by people) to build the microcosmos into the macrocosmos, culminating in a world where we don't have to work anymore. But that might be too emic.

paulddraper 8y ago

Chick-fil-a is notably one of very few restaurants closed on Sunday. > all franchised Chick-fil-A Operators and their Restaurant employees should have an opportunity to rest, spend time with family and friends, and worship if they choose to do so

msla 8y ago

Shades of National Sunday Law! https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/National_Sunday_law https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/National_Sunday_law > National Sunday law is a conspiracy theory which alleges that the United States government is on the verge of enacting a national blue law that would make Sunday a day of rest and worship. The theory is based on the idea that the Pope is the Antichrist and the Mark of the Beast is worshipped on Sunday. Sinister forces (read: the Vatican) are conspiring to enact a national Sunday law in the United States, which would be the trigger that unleashes the fulfilment of the prophecies found in the Biblical books of Daniel and Revelation. In addition, this law would outlaw worshipping on Saturday, thus beginning a period of persecution of those who worship on Saturday, or Sabbath. > This idea originated within Seventh-day Adventism (which considers the Sabbath to be Saturday), and some on the fringes of the SDA church have taken a handful of failed Congressional bills and Papal writings and inflated them into the trigger of the apocalypse. This is quite ironic considering that you would think blue law opposition would come from more secular groups. I joke, but barely: Making any day a day of rest would play into religious persecution, and fears of same, in a nasty, nasty way.

jiveturkey 8y ago

oh how i wish chick-fil-a didn't observe the [christian] sabbath!

phyller 8y ago

We get both the Jewish and Christian Sabbaths off each week. We have more leisure and chance to reflect then ever before. It's our fault if we burn it up playing video games, watching tv, or working. I've found that since I've started in software engineering I have much more trouble calming my mind down and thinking deeply. I'm trying getting up early in the morning, getting some exercise, food, and reading the Bible, which tends to get me into a more contemplative state. I just started, it's brightened my outlook and made me feel like I have more time in the day, though I can't tell if my work is benefiting yet.

sonnyblarney 8y ago

I'm a North American who moved to France (not Paris) for a few years where everything is closed on Sundays even most restaurants. At first, I thought it was ridiculous. But only after a few months did I come to appreciate it very much. People are with their families, doing 'whatever'. When 'everyone else is off' there's so much less pressure. It's kind of like being disconnected. Living in, Germany there are many holidays wherein it felt like this as well - quiet. After experiencing 'Quiet Sundays' as an adult, think the economic case for 'Sunday Shopping' is overstated, and I actually wish we'd roll that one back. It's a difficult argument to make in a 'GDP-driven and culturally secular world' ... but it makes sense in ways that are just a little too nuanced to make a public case for.

Illniyar 8y ago

I'm an atheist living in Israel. There is nothing more annoying to daily life then the Sabbath. If you embrace it, then you must accept that no one works on saturday. You can't go to the store. There are no kids entertainment. Restaurants. Theaters. There is no public transportation because drivers need their rest too.

d--b 8y ago

I’ve removed work emails from my phone 4 years ago. That’s way more effective than turning everything off for 24 hours. First I’m still reachable if there’s an emergency. Just call me (people don’t call anymore so that almost never happens) and if no one calls I know it’s because everything’s fine. Second it’s all the time, not just the Saturday.

bernardlunn 8y ago

I was raised Catholic and the Sunday day of rest has the same positive value. In Switzerland most shops shut on Sunday, so most people get a real break

cswilly 8y ago

This is a possible idea for well-paid engineers. But many minimum wage people trying to get ahead appreciate the time and a half extra pay they get for working Sundays. Why would think we have a right to stop them from getting ahead by banning work on Sunday.

hi41 8y ago

I have been doing production the whole weekend with just few hours of sleep. I like the idea of this article. The pressure from work is intense and would love to observe the Sabbath just so that I can spend some time with the family.

squozzer 8y ago

You know what would be really cool? 365 / 5 = 73. So if we eliminated Saturday and Sunday, we could work all year round. 73 weeks of fun-filled, delicious work each year!